[PGT] Flames Blank Av's 2-0

[PaperBagger'14]

Calgary looked really strong against a lackluster Av's group. Bennett looked really strong out there, hudler with a 2 goal performance. Also worth noting is that Hathaway was being mentioned and praised by the broadcasting staff for the better part of the game. Oh and because CodyNW likes cats:

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag415/gmsarich/3469921F-4869-4B7F-9667-52C8D62A815F_zpsisiqjk4f.gif (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/gmsarich/media/3469921F-4869-4B7F-9667-52C8D62A815F_zpsisiqjk4f.gif.html)

[JurassicTunga12]

Wins are fun. 4 in a row.

Goaltending continues to do good things, as well as the defense. Bennett and Hamilton are looking like studs.

[FBI]

Frolik looking pretty damn good..
I'm not seeing much from Shore... Waivers and see what happens I guess.

[saXon]

Shut out? Ummm, our goalie situation?


http://llwproductions.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/animated-gif-cat-eyes-grow-large.gif?w=750

[Gaskal]

https://theoffdutymime.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/kent-brockman_52820.gif
Around the League Report

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/images/smilies/Colorado_Avalanche_logo_smiley.png
Hudler strikes quickly
Hahaha. That was quick. MacKinnon's stick breaking screwed everything up.

Ah, good ol' Nate MacQuinnon.
Well, that escalated quickly.
"We didn't start the game on time"
Hudler is at it again
Nice work Guenin.. can we get him off this ****ing team please?
What the heck was that Mitchell
Yeesh this roster is painful to watch.
Parade to the Box
Avs get a penalty on that even though the Flames slashed the Avs players stick? Thats bs.
Redmond broke his own stick and picked up a penalty. :rolleyes:
But yeah ref, don't call Monahan for a slashing penatly for breaking MacKinnon's stick. You know, the right call...

Flames seem to fall fairly easily
Playing Possessed
Comeau count: 7
These giveaways in the offensive zone are brutal.
This is unwatchable. Absolutely no ability to possess the puck.
Comeau what are you doing? You're supposed to shoot every time because that's all you're capable of.
Make it stop...

[Hatter]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ba/b1/01/bab1015df0c17f9c8027bf7ab9772e5c.gif

[GioforPM]

Frolik looking pretty damn good..
I'm not seeing much from Shore... Waivers and see what happens I guess.

Shore looked very solid defensively but quite lacklustre offensively. He may be too slow to be an energy guy. When he arrives he's OK on the forecheck, but too often it's a bit late. Too bad because I was excited about the size and rep when they got him.

[hockey.modern]

Didn't get to watch most of the game. Did GlenX look like he deserved a contract?

[GoJetsGo]

I have a feeling this is going to be a much better team this season.

- That top line looks scary and much more confident

- Seems like Bennett and Frolik are going to add a very dangerous 2nd line

- The defense (even without Brodie) already looks stellar in both ends and especially mobile and quick

- Goaltending looks solid with all 3 options


Can't wait for the season to start

[codynw]

Didn't get to watch most of the game. Did GlenX look like he deserved a contract?

He seemed okay early in the game, but I didn't notice him later on.

[saillias]

Sign Wilson now please before the freakin Avs offer him a contract first. He's better than Engelland.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

A fun game to watch even with the weird time issues. All wibbley wobbley.......

Anyhoo in keeping with the theme

http://i.minus.com/iopKiYLqpDial.gif

[jg13]

Just got back from the game I thought Jooris was one of the best players on the ice tonight, unbelievable hustle this guy doesn't get enough credit.

[GranteedEV]

Sign Wilson now please before the freakin Avs offer him a contract first. He's better than Engelland.

He's better than Engelland, but the problem is he's paired with Engelland.

If they're gonna insist on Engelland in the top 6, we need a strong skater like Kulak or Russell to cover for him.

I'd much rather prefer a Wilson-Nakladal bottom pair with Engelland in the pressbox, though.

Didn't get to watch most of the game. Did GlenX look like he deserved a contract?

He looked like what he pretty much is - a 3rd line NHLer that can kill penalties and tip point shots on the power play, but otherwise can't be expected to do a whole lot. Is that worth a contract? If a team needs a 3rd liner, sure. But it seems everybody already has third line wingers waiting on their farm.

[Samonadreau]

Seriously hiller or ramo? I think your safe waiving either but tough decision........

[Locke]

He's better than Engelland, but the problem is he's paired with Engelland.

If they're gonna insist on Engelland in the top 6, we need a strong skater like Kulak or Russell to cover for him.

I'd much rather prefer a Wilson-Nakladal bottom pair with Engelland in the pressbox, though.

I think Engelland has proved his worth to a degree. Hes not going to get top minutes and thats not going to help him, but hes a serviceable guy to have around. I think hes a bigger part of the team than some give him credit for.

[chubeyr1]

Drew Shore? I think we either trade him or risk sending him down on waivers. He is playing like a tweener, and has not impressed at all. Keeping him on the roster would not be a spot earned, not even close. Hathaway and Granlund are going down, dont think Granlund should but due to contract and waivers he will be sent down. Shore has not outperformed either of the two.

Sam Bennett, looked good on the wing, not so much at center. Dont get me wrong, I want him as a center, but a year on the wing and ten more pounds of muscle would not hurt. I love the kid, he is not ready for center. Just does not have the size and strength yet, plus experience. Give him a year on the wing, will do him wonders! I love Monahan, I think Bennet has a much higher ceiling, Monahans game though is more refined

Goalies? How any fan can argue who is better than who? Ortio Ramo and Hiller have all pitched shutouts! Easy to hate when guys are playing bad, wish one of them would. Would make choices easier.

Dougie Hamilton? Watched every game I could this preseason. Was not impressed at all with Hamilton until tonight, lets call it the night he got it! He looked like Brodie or Gio all night long. He did not look awkward or uncertain of his on ice decisions. He looked great!

Ryan Wilson? So many of our prospects have played with Engelland and have had some amazing games. Our young guys have looked great paired with Engelland. Some fans hate Engelland. I get it, I do, but Engelland is on this team like it or not. We need someone to play with him. Wilson was solid tonight, yet not impressive. Our other dmen have been impressive with Engelland. He didnt earn a contract tonight, didnt lose one either, actually he could of lost a contract tonight. He needs to be better than guys with contracts. Wotherspoon Nakladal and Kulak are at minimum equal players at this point signed to contracts. Wilson needs to out play them. He played a fine game, fine wont get him a contract.

Curtis Glencross! Looked like an NHL player tonight with a chip on his shoulder. He is not the same player of years ago, yet looked decent. On Colorado tonight he was one of the better players.

McKinnon looks good, Comeau lol, he is much like Paul Byron, he can shoot all night long and not score a goal. Probably had half of all of Colorado's shots. I dont miss him.

Remember this was not Colorado's A team. Lets not get cocky.
My last thought, Raantanen ( spelling ), kid looked really good. Big and skilled. He was impressive.

As for Engelland tonight, he has made this team, he is a lock. Yet he did everything tonight that the fans hate, his haters hate. It was not a good game. I ride Wilson when he had a solid game trying to earn a contract, if roles were reversed I would cut Engelland tomorrow. Engelland has earned his spot here though. He has a contract not easily moved.

[Samonadreau]

I think Engelland has proved his worth to a degree. Hes not going to get top minutes and thats not going to help him, but hes a serviceable guy to have around. I think hes a bigger part of the team than some give him credit for.

Engelland is also a guy that can roll in and out from #6 to #7 spot in the press box. Hes serviceable and probably has respect in the dressing room.

[FFR]

He seemed okay early in the game, but I didn't notice him later on.

That's funny. I thought the opposite. I thought he was pretty invisible in the first and got better as the game went on. He seemed tentative early in the game (which makes sense given his situation).

[Phaneufenstein]

Just got back from the game I thought Jooris was one of the best players on the ice tonight, unbelievable hustle this guy doesn't get enough credit.

I don't usually post in pgts but came to say the same thing after getting home from the game.
The guy defines always earned never given and should absolutely be on opening night roster.

Hathaway was also a positive standout for me

On the other hand Ferland was invisible tonight

[GranteedEV]

So my thoughts on the game:

-It was pretty boring after the first period, let's be honest. Not a whole lot of legit chances for either side.

-I still haven't seen Giordano wire it this preseason. He can get pucks to net just fine but where's that Gio-Special?

-I thought Kris Russell looked great. Not great as-in "Same Ol' Kris Russell" but great as in perfect zone-clears, plenty of flash in the offensive zone, a bit more patience n his passing. Yeah, sure, he was playing against AHLers after all we seemed to see of him near the end of last year was being up against the Sedins, Kopitars, Getzlafs, and Tarasenkos. But I'm really excited to watch him this season.. He could be due for a career year right before he turns UFA.

-Ferland didn't have his best night. I don't think they're going to keep him at RW, the adjustment just doesn't seem to be happening. They should try Johnny at RW and put him on LW.

-Engelland was, well, Engelland. He only knows how to do two things - stand in front of the net and ice the puck until his partner clears it the correct way.

-I didn't think Shore had a poor game. I agree he probably didn't have a good enough game to have made the team, but that's why there's still two more preseason games before the final cut.

-Man, Backlund, Byron, Jooris, Hathaway, Bennett, Gaudreau, Frolik, Granlund, Hudler... tonight pretty much all our forwards were just vicious hounds out there. You can try and pick out a guy who stood out but it's impossible.

-I think I'm gonna be a fan of Dougie Hamilton. Just seems to make a lot of "right plays".

-Granlund. Those hands... I could see this guy replacing Hudler.

[Mike F]

-I still haven't seen Giordano wire it this preseason. He can get pucks to net just fine but where's that Gio-Special?

Funny, to me a Gio-Special is him walking the blue line to find a lane and then firing a wrist shot through a screen more than a big slap shot.

[Believer]

Why was Wilson smiling so much in his interview? I swear the guy just got a contract and it hasn't been announced. He couldn't wipe it off his face!

[GranteedEV]

Funny, to me a Gio-Special is him walking the blue line to find a lane and then firing a wrist shot through a screen more than a big slap shot.

That's the Gio-Regular :)

[WhiteTiger]

Excellent. Way to go Flames!

[dammage79]

Goalies wee both very good. They're certainly not letting Treliving make an easy decision.

Bennett looked better tonight. Wilson is super stable in the #6 role. Kids may have to wait a year before they get a shot.

I can live with losing Shore if that means Granlund gets a permanent spot on the main roster. Thats a trade off I am willing to accept if need be. Ideally a couple of other guys get moved to make room but we will see. GM's office is going to be busy this weekend.
Cannot wait for games to start counting. Two more preseason game against WPG and we're off!

[Dion]

A fun game to watch even with the weird time issues. All wibbley wobbley.......

Anyhoo in keeping with the theme

http://i.minus.com/iopKiYLqpDial.gif

http://i.imgur.com/6PtDo0q.gif

[Day Tripper]

Dougie Hamilton? Watched every game I could this preseason. Was not impressed at all with Hamilton until tonight, lets call it the night he got it! He looked like Brodie or Gio all night long. He did not look awkward or uncertain of his on ice decisions. He looked great!


Giordano and Hamilton were dominant out there. Dougie was probably just rusty earlier in the preseason. He did look more like himself last night.

[Flames_F.T.W]

I thought the D looked great (Russell was especially noticeable and Hamilton had some great rushes) and Jooris really stood out. Thought Bennett had one of his better games too. It may only be the preseason, but it's nice to get some momentum going and some wins to build up some confidence heading into the season opener.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

http://i.imgur.com/6PtDo0q.gif

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-10338-Fist-bump-Stan-Lee-Yeah-nhkW.gif

[Resolute 14]

I think Engelland has proved his worth to a degree. Hes not going to get top minutes and thats not going to help him, but hes a serviceable guy to have around. I think hes a bigger part of the team than some give him credit for.

Wasting your breath, man. There is literally nothing you can say that will impact the opinions of people who are mad our #6 D isn't as good as our #1 D.

[Street Pharmacist]

Wasting your breath, man. There is literally nothing you can say that will impact the opinions of people who are mad our #6 D isn't as good as our #1 D.
Or maybe their mad out #6D is worse than our #7D, #8D or even #9D.

[Robbob]

Some of the things I noticed from last night:
-Gio seems to be fighting the puck a bit. I don't recall so many puck hopping or going through his stick. It seems that this preseason they are more frequent. Hopefully it's him still shaking off some rust.
-Ferland isn't ready for the top line. He just doesn't have the chemistry with the other two and I find he doesn't create openings or enough options for the other two.
-Love the motor on some of the kids. Even in a nothing game you could see the effort in some of the kids.
-Shore was pretty good in the face-off dot.
-I would love to be a fly on the wall to listen in on the goalie talk the coaches and management are having.

I can't wait for this season to actually start. Only seven more sleeps.

[Poe969]

I don't think it's as easy as saying that our 7 or 8 or 9 are better than Engelland because there's different styles of play to consider. Engelland is a tough guy who's big and keeps the other teams honest. We have players that are better at certain aspects of the game that are lower on the depth chart than him but the parts that he's better than them at outweigh them. He brings team toughness to the lineup, he's not nearly as bad as some make him out to be and he'll do what it takes to win. Management went out and got him and even overpaid to get him, they like him. They've praised him since he's been here and let's not forget that he actually stepped up his game last year when Gio went down. He's here to stay.

We may have guys who are faster, have better shots or any other attributes but what Engelland lacks in those parts of his game, he more than makes up for in others. At least that's what it seems to me and I'm guessing that's why he's going to be our #6.

[Locke]

Or maybe their mad out #6D is worse than our #7D, #8D or even #9D.

Really? So it should have been Potter or Wotherspoon playing with Brodie after Gio got hurt?

[Street Pharmacist]

Really? So it should have been Potter or Wotherspoon playing with Brodie after Gio got hurt?

Thats an interesting opinion.
I'm taking about this year. Schlemko would've been better with Brodie.

[Locke]

I'm taking about this year. Schlemko would've been better with Brodie.

I disagree. Theres a reason Hartley gave bigger minutes to Engelland than Schlemko.

[Street Pharmacist]

I disagree. Theres a reason Hartley gave bigger minutes to Engelland than Schlemko.
And the reason is?

[Resolute 14]

Or maybe their mad out #6D is worse than our #7D, #8D or even #9D.

You can make a case for Wotherspoon. After that, it's just a case of "I hate Engelland, so I choose only to see the absolute worst in him, and only the absolute best in people I like more than him."

And as far as Wotherspoon goes, all the whining in the world will not change the fact that his advantage in terms of experience and contract options means Wotherspoon has blow Hartley's socks off to take that job. Bluntly, he hasn't.

[Locke]

And the reason is?

Because Engelland could handle the bigger minutes, seriously for those 20+ games of Gio's injury Engelland was a standout, he was solid and Schlemko was still only getting his 8-10 minutes.

Sure, being with Brodie helps, but hes no scrub, hes a useful and versatile player that can play that #7 role or step into a top 4 role for limited amounts of time.

I'm much happier to have had Engelland there than anyone else and hes going to be in the top 7 going into this season because of that versatility.

[DJones]

Some of the things I noticed from last night:
-Gio seems to be fighting the puck a bit. I don't recall so many puck hopping or going through his stick. It seems that this preseason they are more frequent. Hopefully it's him still shaking off some rust.
-Ferland isn't ready for the top line. He just doesn't have the chemistry with the other two and I find he doesn't create openings or enough options for the other two.
-Love the motor on some of the kids. Even in a nothing game you could see the effort in some of the kids.
-Shore was pretty good in the face-off dot.
-I would love to be a fly on the wall to listen in on the goalie talk the coaches and management are having.

I can't wait for this season to actually start. Only seven more sleeps.

Read that Gio couldn't do push ups during the fitness testing. Doesn't sound 100%

[FBI]

It was pull-ups

[GranteedEV]

Because Engelland could handle the bigger minutes

Except he couldn't. At all. He was the one players who was beyond out-matched after Gio went down and the reason our season didn't end was because our Top line + Wideman were on absolute fire, our goaltenders transformed into Omega Price, and our bottom pair of Schlemko and Diaz wasn't just okay, but dominating other team's bottom lines the way we hadn't had a good bottom pair all year.

, he was solid and Schlemko was still only getting his 8-10 minutes

Schlemko averaged 12:39 as a Flame while being a new guy having the stigma of being a waiver pickup.

, seriously for those 20+ games of Gio's injury Engelland was a standout

Well, I disagree about him standing out. He was hanging on by a thread.

I'm much happier to have had Engelland there than anyone else and hes going to be in the top 7 going into this season because of that versatility.

Now there's one thing I never thought I would hear about career #8-#7 Defenseman Deryk Engelland

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Not hating on Engelland, as he did fill in admirably last spring. But based on this year's competition, he could easily move down to #7 or #8, depending on where Wilson/Smid/Kulak end up. That would be a good thing.

[Street Pharmacist]

Because Engelland could handle the bigger minutes, seriously for those 20+ games of Gio's injury Engelland was a standout, he was solid and Schlemko was still only getting his 8-10 minutes.

Sure, being with Brodie helps, but hes no scrub, hes a useful and versatile player that can play that #7 role or step into a top 4 role for limited amounts of time.

I'm much happier to have had Engelland there than anyone else and hes going to be in the top 7 going into this season because of that versatility.
If Hartley deciding to play him those minutes means he "handled" then, i see where we disagree.

I think Hartley made a mistake, you don't. There's no proof of the hypothetical, but Brodie/Engelland was not a good thing IMO.

With the available options, Wilson among others would be a better replacement

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Except he couldn't. At all. He was the one players who was beyond out-matched after Gio went down and the reason our season didn't end was because our Top line + Wideman were on absolute fire, our goaltenders transformed into Omega Price, and our bottom pair of Schlemko and Diaz wasn't just okay, but dominating other team's bottom lines the way we hadn't had a good bottom pair all year.



Schlemko averaged 12:39 as a Flame while being a new guy having the stigma of being a waiver pickup.



Well, I disagree about him standing out. He was hanging on by a thread.



Now there's one thing I never thought I would hear about career #8-#7 Defenseman Deryk Engelland


By no means am I an Engelland apologist, but you have to give him credit for stepping up when Giordano went down. If he was 'hanging on by a thread' we would not of made the playoffs.

Even Hartley was consistently praising Engelland's ability to step up and play in the top-4 during the most difficult time of the season.

I have no problem with Engelland as the 6/7 d-man due to his intangibles. You don't need 6 elite puck moving defensemen who can score. Even if you did, good luck fitting 6 of them under the cap.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

If Hartley deciding to play him those minutes means he "handled" then, i see where we disagree.

I think Hartley made a mistake, you don't. There's no proof of the hypothetical, but Brodie/Engelland was not a good thing IMO.

With the available options, Wilson among others would be a better replacement

Absolutely, we'll take the opinion of the few here over Jack Adam's winner Hartley. :rolleyes:

I think people have to just trust that our coaching staff makes these decisions on purpose and see things that clearly some are not.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

If Hartley deciding to play him those minutes means he "handled" then, i see where we disagree.

I think Hartley made a mistake, you don't. There's no proof of the hypothetical, but Brodie/Engelland was not a good thing IMO.

With the available options, Wilson among others would be a better replacement
The problem when analysing D-men, and specifically defensive D-men, it will always be a little bit of an opinion conversation.

That said, having a really tough time figuring how anyone could say "Hartley made a mistake" with where he put Engelland last year post Gio injury. The team continued to excel and overachieve for the remainder of the regular season and through the playoffs with Engelland taking on Top 4 minutes. That would not occur if Engelland was out of place playing on the top 2 pairings, the NHL is far to tight these days to allow for that to happen.

You could, argue that players who didn't get a similar opportunity to Engelland would have equaled his performance or bested it............that's something one could always propose. But I'd suggest that's a tough case to make given who our other options were, their history, and Hartley's track record on knowing this team the way he does.

[Resolute 14]

With the available options, Wilson among others would be a better replacement

Explain why, other than your irrational dislike of Engelland.

[genetic_phreek]

I think people forget that Engelland is also our ice police. See first round of playoffs or see Engelland vs Gadzic. Remember we have a lot of young guys I'd like to protect as well.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

If some people don't like Engelland or think he looks weak in these preseason games, fine.

But I think history is being twisted when saying things like he wasn't good down the stretch last season or in the playoffs. He took on more minutes and played better.

[Street Pharmacist]

If some people don't like Engelland or think he looks weak in these preseason games, fine.

But I think history is being twisted when saying things like he wasn't good down the stretch last season or in the playoffs. He took on more minutes and played better.
I disagree. He only played better because he had Brodie and not Smid. He absolutely obliterated Brodie's effectiveness. The smart move in my hockey genius opinion, would've been Brodie and Schlemko being servings line and leave Engelland getting his 10 minutes on the third line.

[GranteedEV]

By no means am I an Engelland apologist, but you have to give him credit for stepping up when Giordano went down. If he was 'hanging on by a thread' we would not of made the playoffs

I don't believe I have to give the biggest liability on the ice for over two months credit for being overplayed.

Let's look at some goaltending stats between Feb 27 to April 9 in wins + OT/shootouts:
Jonas Hiller with a save percentage of 0.944 / 7W / 1SOL (15 Points)
Karri Ramo with a save percentage of 0.921 / 5W / 1OTL / 1SOL (12 Points)

In those 12 wins and 3 tie-losses out of the 19 vital games, we got very, very good goaltending.

Let's also look at some (5v5) defense pairing stats in the games between Feb 27 to April 9:

Wideman-Russell on the ice for 22 goals for, 11 goals against
Schlemko-Diaz on the ice for 7 goals for, 3 goals against
Brodie-Engelland on the ice for 6 goals for, 12 goals against

You can look at the contrast between the stats and draw one of four conclusions:

A)Brodie was a liability in that role
B)Brodie and Engelland were both liabilities in that role
C)These two got really bad puck-luck.
D)Engelland was liability in that role

Well, I know Brodie was nursing an ankle injury, but my eye test didn't tell me Brodie was costing the team. So I don't think A and B are the right answer.

C's a possibility if the on-ice play wasn't one-sided. But additional stats show this pairing had possession stats of 36.6%. That's spending 2/3rd of the TOI stuck defending. They scored 1/3rd of the goals. I see what appears to be a correlation.

As for D? I saw it with my eyes when it was happening and I continued to see it with my eyes. But maybe I'm just crazy.

At no point last season did Engelland's pairing outscore the other team last year, whether it was with Brodie(middle pairing), with Diaz (bottom pairing), or with Smid(bottom pairing).

I get that people like what he brings in a #7 role, and I don't blame you for it. But I just think any team sport's objective is usually to outscore or at least tie the other team when you're out there.

I'm not asking Engelland to be a great puck-mover. I'm asking him be able to make the simple clean outlet to our forwards (something Nakladal, Wilson, Sieloff and Wotherspoon have shown they can do infinitely better in this preseason).

[Bandwagon In Flames]

I disagree. He only played better because he had Brodie and not Smid. He absolutely obliterated Brodie's effectiveness. The smart move in my hockey genius opinion, would've been Brodie and Schlemko being servings line and leave Engelland getting his 10 minutes on the third line.

And how many Jack Adams votes did you receive?

We made the playoffs with a line-up that really had no business doing so. And you're going to sit here and critique how Hartley paired his defensemen?

Can the regular season please start already..

[KootenayFlamesFan]

I disagree. He only played better because he had Brodie and not Smid. He absolutely obliterated Brodie's effectiveness.

Well, I think he deserves some credit rather than just giving all the credit to a defense partner. He sure looked like he played a smarter, more simple game to me.

As for him making Brodie worse, wasn't Brodie hurt at the time? I believe that's a plausible reason for Brodie's supposed nosedive. It's possibly not all Engelland's fault.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

I disagree. He only played better because he had Brodie and not Smid. He absolutely obliterated Brodie's effectiveness. The smart move in my hockey genius opinion, would've been Brodie and Schlemko being servings line and leave Engelland getting his 10 minutes on the third line.
What the hell are you babbling about? Who is arguing that Smid / Engelland = a 2nd paring defence. The fact that this is your rational shows just how out to lunch you are on what is important to this conversation or the debate. No #### Smid / Engelland doesn't equal Brodie / Engelland. And no #### Brodie is better when he's playing with the best defender in the league.

As good as Brodie is, he's not good enough to be a part of D tandem that is legitimately a 2nd NHL pairing in the NHL (which Engelland and him were last year) if his partner is hot garbage.

The only argument you have is to say "we don't know if Shlomo / Brodie would have been better because we didn't see it", but as mentioned before that's a pretty tough case to make. These arguments you have that Engelland made Brodie worse than when he plays with Gio aren't even relevant. Of course he did, no one is arguing he didn't. Smid, Shlomo, Russell, Wideman all would have done the same. Engelland proved he could step up and play Top 4 minutes "effectively" last year when paried with a legit Top 2 NHL D-man. At this moment, we cannot say with any confidence that any of our other options last year or this year competing for spots 5-8 on this club could have, and we haven't seen anything in pre season to date from any of them that comes close to putting Engelland's role on this club (5-7 d-man) in question at this point.

[DoubleF]

I couldn't quite figure out why we had stoppages twice for both Avs goalies. Did we get some weird shots between their equipment or something? I think Berra took one to the side of the mask, not sure about Pickard.

Is Byron still injured or shaking off rust? He seemed slow. Or maybe our team is faster? Russell looked faster to me, but I wasn't sure if that was real.

Hamilton's foot speed is a bit slow to me. Maybe I'm crazy, but I thought it seemed nearly on par with Wideman. I think Gio had to cover for him a few times. But he's still adjusting and I'm not super concerned for now.

I really freaking like Granlund's wrister. He needs to use it more often.

Glencross did well last night. Hope he gets a contract of sorts somewhere.

[Resolute 14]

And how many Jack Adams votes did you receive?

We made the playoffs with a line-up that really had no business doing so. And you're going to sit here and critique how Hartley paired his defensemen?

Can the regular season please start already..

Honestly, an appeal to authority does not make a better argument than the "he sucks because he sucks" argument that others are making. Hartley very much deserved the Jack Adams, but that doesn't mean his is above criticism.


But as far as the criticism of Engelland goes, I think a lot of it really comes down to the fact that he is a 6D, and people want him to be more. He's not. He was able to up his game for the stretch run last year, but that still doesn't make him a top-four guy overall. And yes, Brodie's offensive stats declined while paired with him. But that was always going to be obvious given he lost the pairing with the highest scoring D in the league.

Engelland is what he is, and what he is will never be perfect. People simply need to learn to deal with that. They need to accept that Wotherspoon, Wilson, Nakladal, etc., are fighting for the 7D spot right now. That's it. They need to really wow the coaches to take Engelland's job. Simply being subjectively better in the minds of fans who hate Engelland for not being another #1D won't do it.

[genetic_phreek]

I couldn't quite figure out why we had stoppages twice for both Avs goalies. Did we get some weird shots between their equipment or something? I think Berra took one to the side of the mask, not sure about Pickard.

Is Byron still injured or shaking off rust? He seemed slow. Or maybe our team is faster? Russell looked faster to me, but I wasn't sure if that was real.

Hamilton's foot speed is a bit slow to me. Maybe I'm crazy, but I thought it seemed nearly on par with Wideman. I think Gio had to cover for him a few times. But he's still adjusting and I'm not super concerned for now.

I really freaking like Granlund's wrister. He needs to use it more often.

Glencross did well last night. Hope he gets a contract of sorts somewhere.

That's crazy. Even the commentators were commenting how he looks like a gazelle out there with his movement and how fast he gets around.

[Aleks]

I did see the refs talk to Ferland a few times last night so may e he was feeling extra watched?

[DoubleF]

That's crazy. Even the commentators were commenting how he looks like a gazelle out there with his movement and how fast he gets around.

Concur the comment I made be crazy. It just seemed like he was going towards the net faster, yet in certain situations Gio would make it back into the D zone faster than Hamilton even though the puck was on Hamilton's side of the rink.

Sorry, I wouldn't have heard the commentators. Was at the game.

I blame the dome foam... :whistle:

[Coach]

Gio could be faster than Hamilton too.

Often, when D are going back for the puck, the far side D will get there quicker because A) He's already covering and thus is behind the strong side guy and B)the strong side guy needs to turn around.

Pretty standard switch for the far guy to make it there first. It's likely that Hamilton wasn't skating as hard for this reason.

[druetetective]

I feel like we should take 1 vet and 1 rookie for the last 2 spots on D.

So one of Nakladal/Wilson and Wotherspoon/Kulak. We need to start grooming 1-2 of our young Dmen to be able to fill in once the Engelland/Russell/Wideman run out. With all the young players we have to resign were going to need at least 1 defenceman on a ELC.

I personally would go with Nakladal/Wotherspoon. Sign Wilson and send him down. I'm much higher on Kulak and think he will be a bottom pairing guy for the Flames for years to come but I think another full year playing 1st pairing mins in the AHL will do wonders for his development.

Then you can rotate Engelland, Wotherspoon and Nakladal in and out of the lineup based on matchups and performance. I know you don't want kids sitting in the pressbox but at this point I think playing even every other game plus NHL practices would be better for spoons development than AHL. If he's not up to the task you send him down and call up Kulak or Morrisson. I just really hope the Flames start grooming one of these kids in the NHL this season.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I feel like we should take 1 vet and 1 rookie for the last 2 spots on D.

So one of Nakladal/Wilson and Wotherspoon/Kulak. We need to start grooming 1-2 of our young Dmen to be able to fill in once the Engelland/Russell/Wideman run out. With all the young players we have to resign were going to need at least 1 defenceman on a ELC.

I personally would go with Nakladal/Wotherspoon. Sign Wilson and send him down. I'm much higher on Kulak and think he will be a bottom pairing guy for the Flames for years to come but I think another full year playing 1st pairing mins in the AHL will do wonders for his development.

Then you can rotate Engelland, Wotherspoon and Nakladal in and out of the lineup based on matchups and performance. I know you don't want kids sitting in the pressbox but at this point I think playing even every other game plus NHL practices would be better for spoons development than AHL. If he's not up to the task you send him down and call up Kulak or Morrisson. I just really hope the Flames start grooming one of these kids in the NHL this season.

I think the grooming will start happening this season, and will be due to the inevitable injury issues (which happens pretty much every season). These kids will start getting more time in the NHL, and it will be up to them to make sure they stay there and force Hartley's hand in playing them more, and force Treliving's hand in making a permanent roster spot. Brodie is out now (and Smid is still not ready to go yet). This is a chance for 2 guys to come in and stay in.

There will be other opportunities as well throughout the season. I wouldn't worry so much about anyone (even forwards) making it on the team straight out of camp. It will always be up to them to force management's hands when they do get that opportunity.

[MillerTime GFG]

Went to the game last night, and managed to miss both goals while waiting for the play to stop getting down to our section. At the end of the game I said to my buddy" oh well, at least we get to watch overtime". What a complete fail. When did that change in the preseason?

I can add to what people have said about Hathaway...I thought he was very noticeable. Lots of energy & hustle. Strikes me as someone who would annoy the heck out of opponents.

[GioforPM]

That's crazy. Even the commentators were commenting how he looks like a gazelle out there with his movement and how fast he gets around.

He may be one of those guys who looks slow but moves fast and easily. Being tall helps that.

On the other hand some guys look faster than they are because they are churning the legs so much.

[genetic_phreek]

He may be one of those guys who looks slow but moves fast and easily. Being tall helps that.

On the other hand some guys look faster than they are because they are churning the legs so much.

By DoubleF's own admission he was also churning the dome foam so much. :whistle:

[Flamesforver11]

Watching Hamilton this pre season has been treat. I honestly think he could end up as a better D than current Gio in 3 years. Thats a Norris winner

[DoubleF]

I guess I'm back for embarrassment...

Was it the foam, or did I actually remember Gaudreau being a little more physical? Not like all out body checking anyone, but pushing guys away/off the puck/shoving them to get them off the game before picking their pocket etc.

I think I recall Granlund doing the same (nudging guys, shoving them etc.) but getting knocked down by bigger guys a lot.

[GioforPM]

I guess I'm back for embarrassment...

Was it the foam, or did I actually remember Gaudreau being a little more physical? Not like all out body checking anyone, but pushing guys away/off the puck/shoving them to get them off the game before picking their pocket etc.

I think I recall Granlund doing the same (nudging guys, shoving them etc.) but getting knocked down by bigger guys a lot.

Gaudreau is a bit more physical. I bet he gained a few pounds ovwer the summer and wants to try them out.

[heep223]

Except he couldn't. At all. He was the one players who was beyond out-matched after Gio went down and the reason our season didn't end was because our Top line + Wideman were on absolute fire, our goaltenders transformed into Omega Price


Our goaltenders transformed into Price? What games were you watching? There were a lot of reasons that the Flames had a successful playoff push last season, but exceptional goaltending was not one of them.

[dammage79]

Our goaltenders transformed into Price? What games were you watching? There were a lot of reasons that the Flames had a successful playoff push last season, but exceptional goaltending was not one of them.

Hiller in the VAN series was exceptional. I just don't see why things have to be minimalized all the time.

[heep223]

Hiller in the VAN series was exceptional. I just don't see why things have to be minimalized all the time.


Disagree that he was exceptional, much less comparable to Carey Price, who is the sole reason his team wins.

We didn't get exceptional goaltending all year including playoffs, with the exception of the first 10 games of the regular season.

I'm not sure what you mean about things being minimalized all the time.

[dammage79]

Disagree that he was exceptional, much less comparable to Carey Price, who is the sole reason his team wins.

We didn't get exceptional goaltending all year including playoffs, with the exception of the first 10 games of the regular season.

I'm not sure what you mean about things being minimalized all the time.

I wasn't debating the comparable to Price. That's lunacy. But to deny that Hiller was not exceptional in that VAN series is playing it down. He was a big part of that series win. I also was not debating the regular season. But to say the Flames didn't get exceptional goaltending at any point during the regular season is silly too. All three goalies stole games while standing on their heads throughout the season.

[heep223]

I would say overall that goaltending was average/solid, apart from the first 10. I wouldn't attribute it to the Flames making the playoffs, as the initial poster was saying. Good some games, stole some games, bad some games, lost some games. Overall average.