QOTD: What do do with Ryan Wilson

[Bingo]

Flames are getting down to numbers and Wilson has certainly been good enough to get a contract offer.

Does he accept a 2 way though?

With Nakladal, Brodie and Smid all hurt it's easy to toss one way contracts around but what about when everyone gets back?

Do the Flames not care, and are willing to eat a contract in the minors? Or are they confident they can move two of Smid, Wilson or Engellend in a trade to free space up?

What say you?

[EVERLAST]

BT won't give him anything but a 2 way as competition is deep this year.

I'm not personally that impressed with Wilson tho

[T@T]

AHL contract.

[Super-Rye]

I would sign him. He has had a pretty good camp. Depth is everything and with the way the NHL is these days you need atleast 10 defensemen who can play at the NHL level.

But I've always been a fan of Ryan Wilson's game so maybe I'm being biased.

[getbak]

Two-way deal and he fills the same role Corey Potter did last season... AHLer or NHL press box sitter.

[the2bears]

Oops... meant the 3rd choice. Darn blurry eyes in the morning :P

[the2bears]

Here's a question I've never thought about: What are the cap implications of 1-way vs. 2-way deals?

[getbak]

Here's a question I've never thought about: What are the cap implications of 1-way vs. 2-way deals?
A player on a one-way contract gets paid the same amount whether he's playing in the NHL or AHL. If he's in the AHL, the first $950,000 of his salary doesn't count against the cap, but anything over that does.

A player on a two-way deal has different salaries in the NHL and the AHL. His AHL salary would not have any cap hit.

[ricardodw]

Here's a question I've never thought about: What are the cap implications of 1-way vs. 2-way deals?

Basically ... the first $950,000 get taken out of the cap.

If they sign Wilson on a 1 way for $1 m and send him down , and he clears waivers, the Flames get a 50k cap hit.

For Raymond they get a 2.2 M cap hit with him in the AHL.


That is why they can sign Wilson to a similar contract they gave Diaz last year.... 700k ... NHL or AHL. Really good insurance to have a NHL d-man that Hartley is not scared to play more than 5-10 minutes if injuries force the situation. The Jets were forced to pay Jay Harrison 1.5 M when tehy ran out of healthy NHL d-men last season.

The one-way under 950-k is every bit as flexible as a 2-way...

His ahl salary, even under a 2-way deal would be considerably higher than the 70k Wotherspoon will get in the AHL.

[Finger Cookin]

Wilson signs as a depth guy so that the Flames have a veteran depth guy to lean on all season while the kids play in Stockton or Adirondack. He signs a one way deal for less than $950K.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I say you sign him, and when everyone is healthy and/or a couple of the kids prove they belong in the NHL, you flip him (or someone else) for a pick sometime during the season. Loads of teams experience injuries and often need a serviceable cheap defencemen.

[Vinny01]

Give the kids a chance. Unless Treliving has a deal in place to move Smid or Engellend then I don't think they should sign Wilson over giving the spot to Spoon or Kulak

[Five-hole]

You're not going to get a pick for him, IMO. Anyone can still sign him for free as far as I know.

He's been fine but not good enough to take away important development time for prospects either at the AHL or NHL levels. We have enough NHL ready depth that we don't need additional guys like this. That said, Hartley has proven that he'd prefer depth with NHL experience, so who knows. It wouldn't surprise me to see him signed into the Corey Potter #7 role and warm the bench for most of the season.

[The Fonz]

Sign him on the cheap. Try like hell to find a taker for Laddy Smid.

Injuries will happen throughout the course of the season, so Wotherspoon/Kulak/Nakladal will get opportunities regardless of a Wilson signing.

[Locke]

I think you sign him on a two-way, hes earned it but we need flexibility and at this juncture we shouldnt always be slotting in journeymen, we need to keep spots available for the younger Dmen.

[Gaskal]

If he's serviceable in the rest of preseason I'd give him the two-way, if he impresses I'd give him the one-way.

[Strange Brew]

I have not been able to watch much pre season action but the reaction here seems to be mixed.

It will be hard to flip him for a pick IMO. It sounds like a good idea but he is a fringe player that other teams likely feel they have covered in their system. The only real risk is with the number of contracts the Flames have and if they are approaching 50. I don't really follow thus number closely but seems you would like at least 3 available slots entering the year. You may want to add players at the deadline and sign some college UFA's.

So I would say if we are at 46 contracts or less, you sign him.

47 or more, I think you pass.

[Finger Cookin]

The Flames are at 46 contracts, unless AHL only contracts count towards the limit.

[getbak]

The Flames are at 46 contracts, unless AHL only contracts count towards the limit.
They do not.


Right now, the Flames have 49 players under contract, but 4 of them (Andersson, Kylington, McDonald, and Schneider) will slide this year unless the player plays in a minimum of 10 NHL games (AHL games don't count). So, they effectively have 45 contracts on the books for this season.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Sign him.

If the kids can't take a spot from a walk-on player on a tryout, then they're not NHL ready.

And as it stands, I'd rank him probably 6th on the NHL depth chart, ahead of Engelland and ahead of what Smid has shown in the last 2 seasons.

[Finger Cookin]

They do not.


Right now, the Flames have 49 players under contract, but 4 of them (Andersson, Kylington, McDonald, and Schneider) will slide this year unless the player plays in a minimum of 10 NHL games (AHL games don't count). So, they effectively have 45 contracts on the books for this season.
I forgot that Kylington's would also slide, even though he's playing pro hockey this season (at least to start). Thanks!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Don't sign him. Better options on the farm and it shows the players in the system there is some meritocracy worthy of believing in. Wilson is old and slow and has been out performed by several younger, hungrier players. They earn the position. The Flames don't need any more veteran experience. They should be finding new homes for some of their other veterans as well. They last thing this team needs is another retread that holds the youth back.

[442scotty]

Don't sign him... whats the point seriously? The young guys need a chance to play up and develop... He will slow down the process... we already have nakladahl or whatever his name is... You have to think long term... Hickey, Anderson, Kylington etc.. Kulak and spoon need a chance to develop ... The flames have enough low end defencemen already geez!!!

[Bingo]

Another reason not to sign him is space and ice time in the AHL.

If say Wotherspoon is in Calgary more ice time for Kylington, Kanzig, Morrison, Sieloff etc in the AHL

[Locke]

Another reason not to sign him is space and ice time in the AHL.

If say Wotherspoon is in Calgary more ice time for Kylington, Kanzig, Morrison, Sieloff etc in the AHL

I just figure that if you have him available, if the Flames make the playoffs and someone goes down and Wotherspoon is already on the big club you can slot a guy like Wilson in to stabilize things a little.

[sureLoss]

Sign then flip him for Jordan Leopold

[Red Menace]

sign him to a one way if he insists; even if you want to demote him later it is no great loss if someone else claims him.

[D as in David]

I wonder how many people selecting the two-way deal option are still under the impression that a player on a one-way deal can't be assigned to the AHL. It comes up so often in other threads.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Don't sign him. Better options on the farm and it shows the players in the system there is some meritocracy worthy of believing in. Wilson is old and slow and has been out performed by several younger, hungrier players. They earn the position. The Flames don't need any more veteran experience. They should be finding new homes for some of their other veterans as well. They last thing this team needs is another retread that holds the youth back.

I think he should be signed, based on meritocracy. They need to see him in the last couple of games with more NHL-ready teams, but I think he and Nakladal were most ready to fill the 6/7 spot. I just don't see how the other guys necessarily "earned the position". Close competition to be sure, and Kulak in particular impressed me, but I do think Wilson earned the spot and is probably best suited for that spot at this time.

[druetetective]

This guys underrated. I was searching through old Avs threads on HFboards and he was a very good 5-6 dman for them only 2 years ago.

He's not the best skater but lays big hits and can man the PP.
I say sign him 1-way 900k. If he's sent down it won't count against the cap. Flames ownership aren't cheap. If they were willing to spend millions on some draft picks (Ribeiro, Ward, Semin deals that fell through) I bet they'll pay the 900k for the extra depth.

[foshizzle11]

let the kids run with it. I picked the third choice. Has he really been that much better than Kulak or Wotherspoon or Engelland in training camp? In my opinion, no and I would like to see more games for these young guys, I know they shouldn't be given anything and they won't be considering Brodie will be back close to when the season begins.

[GioforPM]

I'd sign him. He has experience, can sit when necessary without worrying about losing development, came to camp in shape and has played a solid game.

[YYC in LAX]

Lying in bed, just like Brian Wilson did.

[Street Pharmacist]

Lying in bed, just like Brian Wilson did.
I don't want to sign Ryan Wilson for this reason. It escapes my lips literally every time his name comes up

[Imported_Aussie]

Let's break down the depth chart without Wilson, to see where he would fit, including current injuries

Giordano - Hamilton
Russell - Wideman
Smid (inj) - Brodie (inj)
Engelland

This means 2 guys need to start on the NHL roster until injuries clear

The rest:

Wotherspoon - Nakladal (inj?)
Kulak - Johnson (AHL)
Kylington - Morrison
Kanzig - Sieloff
Culkin (inj?) - Stevenson (AHL)

With this depth in mind, consider the impact of signing Wilson.
Currently 10 guys to place - lets say 2 of them (Kulak, Nakladal) take those spots, that leaves an 8 man set of D in Stockton, 7 until Culkin is fit. When those 2 bodies go down, they could move guys to the ECHL or make a trade, or send Kylington to Brandon to make sure guys get enough icetime. Otherwise, you end up with a logjam and guys who you want to develop not seeing enough ice.

However, if Nakladal will be out longer, then it may be worth it.

IMO unless he is clearly ahead of at least one of Wotherspoon or Kulak I wouldn't sign him. To me, Kulak has won Brodie's spot until he recovers, and it is time for Wotherspoon to stay with the NHL team - he needs to take a step up, and the guys in Stockton need minutes too

[YYC in LAX]

I don't want to sign Ryan Wilson for this reason. It escapes my lips literally every time his name comes up

So you were probably happy when Bill Arnold was cut hey?

[FlamesFanFromBC]

I don't think he signs a two-way contract. But I would still sign him on a 1 year one way contract, he's payed well enough to warrant that.

And if a young prospect steps up we should have to problem trading him for draft pick/future considerations or someone picks him up on waivers.

[neo45]

I think it depends on how well Kulak and Wotherspoon do in the next couple of days

[azzarish]

Smid is going to be back in a few weeks, and I think Nakladal is going to be better than what we're thinking. Then there's Wotherspoon. At most we would give him a 2-way, but would he accept that?

Had a nice camp, but I don't think we really need him.

[FlamesAddiction]

Just going by the evaluation of others, I think you sign him to the league minimum on a one-way. Worst case scenario is that you pay him that in the minors, but some veteran AHL players are close to that anyway.

If he played well enough to earn it, then I think it sends a bad message to other players in the future that may try out. It would basically say that there was never an intention to sign him and he may have wasted his time with them.

[ricardodw]

Another reason not to sign him is space and ice time in the AHL.

If say Wotherspoon is in Calgary more ice time for Kylington, Kanzig, Morrison, Sieloff etc in the AHL

It is okay to give these 4 young guys more ice time without them earning it? Sort of like the Oilers but at the AHL level?

Having a really bad AHL team that is defaulting ice time based on draft position and reputation is a recipe for slow disappointing development.

So far the Flames AHL teams have had a total of 12 playoff games in 4 seasons winning 5. Not a lot of pressure tested players being developed there.

Has Wotherspoon become too good for the AHL? No further room for him to develop?

In 2006 do Hudler, Fippula, and Quincey have great years in the AHL and a long playoff run as 20-21 years old in the AHL without Team leaders Donald MacLean (28) Eric Manlow (30), Kent McDonell (26), Bryan Helmer (33) and Nate DiCasmirro (26)? These guys were 5 of the top 9 scorers and played over 70 games on the Griffins along with Hulder, Fippula and Koeppky.

Not only did Detroit make them earn their NHL shot they stocked the farm team with solid AHL players that made the team a winning team and made the kids earn their AHL time.

[GioforPM]

I said I'd sign him, but this somewhat depends on Nakladl's health. I think the same considerations for him apply - he is not a prospect who needs a lot of ice time somewhere.

[ricardodw]

Just going by the evaluation of others, I think you sign him to the league minimum on a one-way. Worst case scenario is that you pay him that in the minors, but some veteran AHL players are close to that anyway.

If he played well enough to earn it, then I think it sends a bad message to other players in the future that may try out. It would basically say that there was never an intention to sign him and he may have wasted his time with them.

Not at all.... Morrison had a great training camp, exhibition season with the Canucks and the flames signed him for the regular season.

The Flames have the inside track on Wilson but other teams that are disappointed in what their D prospects are doing are able to contact him and give him a contract. Boston for example is in a scramble to get 6 NHL d-men. They sure as shooting are not going to take Smid and his contract when they could fill in with Wilson for 1M.

[getbak]

I don't think he signs a two-way contract.
Why not?

He has played fewer than 50 total games over the last three seasons, and is in camp on a PTO. It's not like teams are lining up to throw guaranteed contracts his way.

[ricardodw]

Why not?

He has played fewer than 50 total games over the last three seasons, and is in camp on a PTO. It's not like teams are lining up to throw guaranteed contracts his way.

He has showcased that he is healthy and very likely able to play the game very close to the level that he was at when he was playing 18 minutes a game.

Nobody wanted to give him a guaranteed contract when his injury situation was still up in the air.

[Sainters7]

I don't want to sign Ryan Wilson for this reason. It escapes my lips literally every time his name comes up

Haha me too. Which is extra annoying because of all Boomer's little drops, that's the only one I never found funny. But it's stuck in my head anyway. Just a lame jingle that's become etched into me like a Pavlovian dog.


Posted from Calgarypuck.com App for Android

[868904]

When I look at the depth chart and see how the young defensemen are performing, I think it's not necessary to sign him.

I was thinking that he would be good to sign because he brings something a little different and lacking, in terms of truculence, but then I keep forgetting that Smid is still around.

Plus sometimes I forget that even though Giordano and Russell are very skilled puck movers, that they have no hesitation to drop the gloves to stick up for their teammates. Engelland has enough truculence for two players, and Hamilton looks like he could take care of himself too.

And with how Sieloff has looked this training camp, he might be a guy you can call up if there is an injury to Engelland. Sieloff's play has been very encouraging as he is a rare commodity in the system. Actually when I think about it, I think it could come down to if Sieloff can maintain his good play. He is essentially a younger version of Wilson, probably a better skater with less offense, but there's already plenty of that on the backend.

[GioforPM]

When I look at the depth chart and see how the young defensemen are performing, I think it's not necessary to sign him.

I was thinking that he would be good to sign because he brings something a little different and lacking, in terms of truculence, but then I keep forgetting that Smid is still around.

Plus sometimes I forget that even though Giordano and Russell are very skilled puck movers, that they have no hesitation to drop the gloves to stick up for their teammates. Engelland has enough truculence for two players, and Hamilton looks like he could take care of himself too.

And with how Sieloff has looked this training camp, he might be a guy you can call up if there is an injury to Engelland. Sieloff's play has been very encouraging as he is a rare commodity in the system. Actually when I think about it, I think it could come down to if Sieloff can maintain his good play. He is essentially a younger version of Wilson, probably a better skater with less offense, but there's already plenty of that on the backend.

I think Smid is still very doubtful for opening day. And even when he played, I don't think he was any better than Wilson (or Seiloff).

[Calgary4LIfe]

You still need a 7th defencemen to warm the bench and pop into a game on occasion. That is not something you want your young players to be doing. That would have been (expensive) Smid's role, but he is still out. In my opinion, you don't sign him because Brodie is down, but you sign him because Smid is out.

If the contract is cheap enough, I do think Wilson (as long as he stays healthy) is the type of depth defencemen teams actually do spend a pick on. He is mobile, good defensively, physical, and he is a decent player in his own right. I do think you could end up getting a 4th or so out of it.

Giordano - Hamilton
Russel - Wideman
Engelland - Kulak/Wotherspoon
Smith

That is how I see things at the moment with Brodie out.

It is a very short term solution with Smid, as I think he is supposed to be ready in mid-late October IIRC. I would still rather sign him and have him sit rather than use one of the prospects for that.

[Gaudfather]

With Nakladal to be back soon, and Kulak and Wotherspoon - there is no need to sign Wilson.

[Fire]

Sounds like Nakladal is healthy and ready to go. No need for Wilson. Smid also close.

[Huntsy]

Think you offer him a $800 K/$80 K. NHL/AHL deal. Think the flames will wait as long as they can too offer it. That way he wont get scooped up so fast. Teams always looking for depth defensemen. Unfortunately Calgary has that already and wants young players to get a shot. Would be a great insurance policy to have him in the AHL. My guess though is Wilson has shown enough that he will want one way and if Flames don't offer it he will get it somewhere else. I.E Coilers..He would be a top 4 with Edmonton.

[FBI]

Hunter on D! :whistle:

You still need a 7th defencemen to warm the bench and pop into a game on occasion. That is not something you want your young players to be doing. That would have been (expensive) Smid's role, but he is still out. In my opinion, you don't sign him because Brodie is down, but you sign him because Smid is out.

If the contract is cheap enough, I do think Wilson (as long as he stays healthy) is the type of depth defencemen teams actually do spend a pick on. He is mobile, good defensively, physical, and he is a decent player in his own right. I do think you could end up getting a 4th or so out of it.

Giordano - Hamilton
Russel - Wideman
Engelland - Kulak/Wotherspoon
Smith

That is how I see things at the moment with Brodie out.

It is a very short term solution with Smid, as I think he is supposed to be ready in mid-late October IIRC. I would still rather sign him and have him sit rather than use one of the prospects for that.

[gvitaly]

I think Wilson had a good camp, and he deserves an NHL contract, but I don't the Flames should be the ones to offer it. Here are a few questions I asked myself to evaluate-

Will he make the Flames better? Yes, but marginally.
Does he bring something the Flames lack? Yes, open ice hits.
Will the Flames gain any extra points in the standing because of him? Doubtful.
In how many games will he play this year? 10-20.
What message will it send to our prospects? I think at this point the log jam at defense will frustrate more than encourage our prospects. That's because I expect the prospects will stay hungry if they get the occasional call up.
Do we have a veteran to sit in the press-box this year?Yes, starting from November most likely one of Smid or Engallend.
Will the Flames be able to use him to generate assets this year?No


Signing Wilson seems like a good idea at first, especially due to the low risk. At the same time it seems like a low reward. Wilson seems like an insurance to an insurance on an already deep blue line. Finally, the opportunity and excitement will simply benefit one of our prospects more in the long run.

PS:I am biased because I love the energy our prospects bring when they are brought up.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Where are people hearing that Smid will be ready mid-October? It honestly doesn't sound like there's any definitive return time that I've heard of. I'd be more shocked if he ever played again, hence why there were so many guys on PTOs this camp.

[JohnnyTitan]

Not trying be a pessimist or paranoid (or a jinx)...but what if we were to sustain another injury?

Here's the scenario we DON'T want.
- One of Gio / Wideman / Russell / Dougie misses some time in October
- Flames either lose games due to rushing young / immature D-Men, OR
- Flames burn out the remaining three non-injured "Studs" with too much ice-time early in the season
- OR BOTH

I like the train-of-thought that has Smid, Brodie and Nakladal all healthey by Oct 20th. But what happens if we lose another guy before then?

It's not my money. Sign Wilson! ;-)

[D as in David]

In my mind, there's little downside either way. The young defenders have shown enough to me that they wouldn't do poorly in the NHL. At the same time, having some more veteran depth on the NHL squad and allowing youth to over-cook some more, is not a bad situation either.

Here is a scenario to consider, looking at the 2016-17 season, there is going to be an even bigger dogfight for the younger d-men to make the blue line with all of Wotherspoon, Kulak, Culkin, Kyllington, Andersson, Morrison having a decent shot at making it (assuming one more year in college for Hickey). To make room for them, does Russell become expendable at the trade deadline this year? Keeping Wilson would provide some veteran depth for the, hopefully, long playoff run. Could Russell get us a second or a third?

[Locke]

Well, for what its worth I just got a Score Update indicating that Smid has been cleared for contact.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Hunter on D! :whistle:

Doh! I meant Smid! And I'm an idiot! :)

[Calgary4LIfe]

Well, for what its worth I just got a Score Update indicating that Smid has been cleared for contact.

Well, in that case, I retract my position that the Flames should sign Wilson. With Smid looking really close, and apparently Nakladal close as well, then Wilson would just be redundant (though perhaps an upgrade on Smid, but not enough to warrant the signing).

Keep him around for the rest of the preseason, just in case injuries hit to someone like Smid or Engelland, and if not, you just release him. Smid and Engelland can take turns being the 7th defencemen.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

I'd keep nakladal and wilson. If nakladal will be out for a longer period I'd keep Wilson and wotherspoon. The reason I wouldn't keep kulak is because I prefer him to play big minutes in the ahl with Morison kylington sieloff etc. I think we should prefer the younger guys to be out of the press box and developing in the ahl. Especially kulak. Wotherspoon can sit in the press box because I think he's very close and has some seasoning but asides from that lets use Wilson and nakladal and cycle them as 6th and 7th guys getting small mins and playing with engelland

[Bingo]

Could be reading too much into it but Treliving's interview on 960 an hour ago sured sounded more Kulak than Wilson.

[FBI]

Could be reading too much into it but Treliving's interview on 960 an hour ago sured sounded more Kulak than Wilson.

Sure sounded more what, that he liked Kulak over Wilson?

[Super-Rye]

Could be reading too much into it but Treliving's interview on 960 an hour ago sured sounded more Kulak than Wilson.

It wouldn't shock me. Kulak has had himself one hell of a camp.

Is he ready to be an everyday NHLer? Probably not, but if he can keep his strong play up throughout pre-season then he deserves a look.

[Jay Random]

I got the impression that Treliving really liked Kulak's progress, not necessarily that he considers him ready for the NHL.

Also, Treliving had high praise for Wilson's work in the Vancouver game. Said he was a real leader for that inexperienced blue line. I have to wonder if they sign him with the specific idea that he spends most of the year in the AHL as a mentor for the young D.

[Alberta_Beef]

I say do not sign him, honestly it makes no sense to sign him.

It sounds like Smid is starting to take contact, Brodie is only gone up to 2-5 more weeks and we are still a week from our first game. That means there is a chance Brodie only misses the first week of the season and if Smid is back mid-October as he's hoping he may only miss the first week too.

Why not give Wotherspoon/Kulak/Nakladal a shot in the first couple weeks? It's certainly not going to kill us to ice a rookie for the first 5-10 games of the year, while on the flip side it could pay good dividends down the road. It will only help them in the long run and signing Wilson just creates more of a logjam in the AHL.

[Vulcan]

It's strange how things go. Before camp I'd have put Culkin ahead of Kulak but due to injury Culkin won't get the chance to be the injury replacement while Kulak may well. Who knows another Flames injury could make him a regular and Culkin never gets the chance.