Calgary preparing for 2026 Winter Olympics bid. May open door to CalgaryNEXT funding

[sureLoss]

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/olympics/with-torontos-olympic-hopes-extinguished-focus-turns-to-whether-quebec-city-or-calgary-will-bid-for-2026-winter-games

The Canadian Olympic Committee has no offices west of Toronto.

But behind the scenes in Calgary, Postmedia has learned business and community leaders have been quietly meeting for more than 18 months about preparing a bid for the 2026 Winter Olympics.

If Los Angeles can bid, and possibly win, a second Olympics, the decision-makers in Calgary figure they can do the same and limit costs by using at least some of the facilities still in place from 1988.

The Olympic Oval, on the University of Calgary campus, would need a major upgrade. Same goes for the bobsleigh track, which is like a kiddie waterslide in the West Edmonton Mall waterpark compared to tracks like the Whistler Sliding Centre.

But Calgary has no problem finding a mountain suitable for the Olympic downhill with the Rockies on the doorstep (the lack of an alpine venue is a major sticking point for Quebec City, as the men’s downhill is akin to the men’s 100-metres in track and field for Olympic purists.)

Calgary Mayor Naheed Nenshi is no fan of using public dollars to build a new arena for the National Hockey League Calgary Flames or stadium for the Canadian Football League Calgary Stampeders. The Calgary Sport & Entertainment Corporation, which owns the Flames and Stampeders, officially unveiled plans last month for a $900-million arena, fieldhouse and stadium on the outskirts of downtown.

If the new mega-facility is tied to the Olympics – and creating a lasting legacy for the community – sources say Nenshi might be open to such a proposal.

[jar_e]

If people didn't like public spending for CalgaryNext, I have a tough time believing they'll be on board for an Olympic bid. Very rarely profitable and large infrastructure pieces that can be tough to be reused.

[killer_carlson]

If people didn't like public spending for CalgaryNext, I have a tough time believing they'll be on board for an Olympic bid. Very rarely profitable and large infrastructure pieces that can be tough to be reused.

If i am not mistaken, the 1988 Olympics were the first winter Olympics to turn a profit

[PepsiFree]

He's right though. It will be very tough to reuse the buildings from 1988 which are being reused for these new Olympics after having been reused by the public for the last 27 years.

[Frequitude]

I am 100% in support of a Winter Olympics bid, even if it doesn't turn a profit. Bring on the celebration.

[Nammer403]

If i am not mistaken, the 1988 Olympics were the first winter Olympics to turn a profit

I think Vancouver had a profit too

[BurningSteel]

If you build it they will come.

[jar_e]

If i am not mistaken, the 1988 Olympics were the first winter Olympics to turn a profit

May as well link to this early on, since I'm sure a lot of discussions will be centered around this.

According to this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games , Sarajevo in 1984 was profitable for approximately $10 million. Calgary was profitable for $32 million.

[Resolute 14]

If i am not mistaken, the 1988 Olympics were the first winter Olympics to turn a profit

Depends on how you consider the accounting.

CODA turned a profit, but CODA didn't build many of the facilities, so didn't account for that as an expense. What was nearly unique about Calgary is that all the facilities have been used long term. If that is something we can replicate again, then it could still be money well spent.

[jar_e]

I think Vancouver had a profit too

They did not. Spent ~$1.9 billion and broke even.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-2010-winter-olympics-debt-free-vanoc-final-report-says-1.2695994

VANOC said the Games broke even, with total revenues and expenses just shy of $1.9 billion. The group that organized the 2010 Winter Olympics and Paralympics has no more assets or outstanding debts and has asked government to dissolve the company.

[Tinordi]

If i am not mistaken, the 1988 Olympics were the first winter Olympics to turn a profit
You are mistaken.

[Locke]

If i am not mistaken, the 1988 Olympics were the first winter Olympics to turn a profit

And probably the last one to turn a profit.

[Table 5]

I still remember being a 7 year old kid in Austria watching the Calgary Olympics, not realizing that only a few months later, we'd be living there. Ever since then, I've really wished I could experience one in person, and have been hoping we can bring it back.

We're one of the few places on earth that can meet the requirements, and unlike the Summer Olympics, the Winters Olympics costs are at least somewhat within reach of normalcy. I think Calgary hosting again is only a matter of time.

Also, an Olympic bid would go a long way of making the West Village transformation a realistic endeavour.

[btimbit]

Even if we almost broke even having the Olympics would be amazing

[Quincy Egg]

Yeah, lets not spend exorbitant amounts of money on a 2 week sporting event.

[Finger Cookin]

3tidE05mM_0

[Senator Clay Davis]

How does making the facility tied to the Olympics somehow make it a more lasting legacy than if it's not tied to the Olympics? Because the whole world gets to see the new facilty for two weeks?

Anyway we all know this is usually a spectacular waste of money, very little gained long term, and it makes one of the two most corrupt organizations on earth rich. Recently when western countries have been given the chance to vote on hosting the Olympics, they have overwhelmingly rejected it. I suspect it'd be the same here.

[Tacopuck]

I'm 100% for supporting an Olympic Bid. 27 years after the 1988 Olympics I am still using some of the facilities that were built for it.

Examples:
- Olympic Oval and Oval Hockey rink
- Nakiska
- Saddledome (yes I know this wasn't built specifically for the olympics)
- COP and the Winsport complex that has been built around it in the years following

These examples are not one time visit either, they are each something I use on a regular basis year after year. If we maintain the idea that any infrastructure or facilities built for the Olympics are not just for the Olympics and are part of Calgary and areas long term use I am all for the Olympics.

[EldrickOnIce]

How does making the facility tied to the Olympics somehow make it a more lasting legacy than if it's not tied to the Olympics? Because the whole world gets to see the new facilty for two weeks?

Anyway we all know this is usually a spectacular waste of money, very little gained long term, and it makes one of the two most corrupt organizations on earth rich. Recently when western countries have been given the chance to vote on hosting the Olympics, they have overwhelmingly rejected it. I suspect it'd be the same here.

Because it would otherwise not get built.
You can question the value of amateur sports in a national perspective, but having facilities at 'home' has allowed Canada to be competitive, where we were never previously.

[DJones]

How does making the facility tied to the Olympics somehow make it a more lasting legacy than if it's not tied to the Olympics? Because the whole world gets to see the new facilty for two weeks?

Anyway we all know this is usually a spectacular waste of money, very little gained long term, and it makes one of the two most corrupt organizations on earth rich. Recently when western countries have been given the chance to vote on hosting the Olympics, they have overwhelmingly rejected it. I suspect it'd be the same here.

It can be done responsibly. Using Russia, China, and Quebec as comparisons are not fair.

The Olympics really cemented Vancouver as one of the best cities in the world. A successful Olympics that led to some federal funds for infrastructure could really help Calgary's reputation. I believe our horrible transportation system is the biggest mark against our city.

[SuperMatt18]

Vancouver's was a success, it worked fine in Calgary in 1988, and it was a success in Salt Lake City as well.

The Winter Olympics tend to be fine, as you tend to only need one main rink and we have the mountains for the ski/snowboard facilities already.

Sochi was the exception since they decided they wanted to host the Olympics in what traditionaly was a resort town in the middle of nowhere.

If we can get the same use out of the new facilities,as we did from our old 1988 facilities then it is worth it. In reality all of these facilities (COP/OVAL/Saddledome) are going to need to be renovated if we want to keep using them by 2026 anyways. At that point it will be 38 years after they were built.

Use Calgary 88, Salt Lake 02, and Vancouver 10 as your blueprints and I feel like there will be no issue in hosting the event.

[cam_wmh]

Did the Provincial and Federal governments commit money for Vancouver 2010?

EDIT:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games

Apparently US$2.3 billion

Included in the total US$6.4 billion cost are the $1 billion for security, $2.5 billion for transportation extensions and upgrades, and $900 million for the new Vancouver Convention Centre (An additional $554 million was spent by the city including a portion on the Olympic Village).

[Ozy_Flame]

Keep in mind a bid doesn't mean a win; we'd have to be able to show a better opportunity to the IOC than other competitors.

So it's not just about pleasing citizens and hockey team owners; it's about pleasing an international community as well.

[Magnum PEI]

Probably a cheaper way to hold what amounts to a two-week party for wealthy young Europeans and Americans with meaningless hobbies. An annual EDM festival with the biggest names would work better IMO.

[Resolute 14]

How does making the facility tied to the Olympics somehow make it a more lasting legacy than if it's not tied to the Olympics? Because the whole world gets to see the new facilty for two weeks?

In general, because you are selling national pride, which is something a populace typically has an easier time accepting, and therefore, so too do politicians. Any time one of the local papers has run polls on whether we want to host another Olympics, the answer is always an overwhelming yes.

One of the bigger challenges with envisioning the costs of a 2026 Olympics in Calgary is the fact that that would make every venue we currently have 11 years older. So while we can contemplate using some existing facilities, they would still need some pretty significant renovations.

But I think there are ways to reduce some costs.

Looking at Sochi, they built seven facilities for the non-skiing events:

Hockey (x2): CalgaryNEXT would be the main facility in this case, but why not send some of the 'lesser' games to Red Deer? Perfectly good facility that fits 7000 and no new costs.

Curling: A renovated Corral probably works best for this.

Short track speed skating: Marshall McPhail Centre. No new costs.

Speed Skating: The Olympic Oval. Renovations would be required.

Medal Plaza: Olympic Plaza already exists, no new costs.

Opening/Closing ceremonies: The Fieldhouse/Stadium.

Figure skating is the problem here. Sochi shared it with short track. Calgary shared it with ice hockey - but with women's hockey now on the calendar, I can't see that being feasible, and the McPhail Centre would be too low capacity.

Alternatively: Curling at the McPhail Centre, figure skating and men's hockey at the NEXT arena, women's hockey (except team Canada games) and short track at the Corral.

Edit: I was assuming the Saddledome is torn down by this time, but if we bid on an Olympics now, then it stands to reason they would keep that arena around until these games. That would make things like hockey and figure skating far, far easier to schedule.


For Mountain events...

Biathalon, Nordic combined, X-country, moguls, free style could all be held at the same spots as 1988, some renovations required.

Snowboard events integrated into COP.

Ski jumping - New facility required (won't be at COP in all likelihood)

Bobsleigh/luge/skeleton - Tear down the existing track and rebuild? Essentially a new facility.

Alpine - I don't ski, so can't say if any existing location meets needs, but I would imagine it could be done with renovations.

Won't be remotely cheap, but we could probably pull it off cheaper than most other locations that haven't already hosted a Winter Games.

[RM14]

^Figure Skating in Saddledome

[tvp2003]

Just throwing this out there -- if CalgaryNext gets built and McMahon gets bulldozed, could that be a potential candidate for a new Olympic Village?

[The Hendog]

Interesting article that focuses on how the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver created major infrastructure projects that will have the most lasting impact on the city; no necessarily in an increase in tourism or prestige that an Olympics apparently brings (or doesn't bring according to this study). A large amount of funding for these infrastructure projects was from the Provincial and Federal governments. Now if the Olympics helps Calgary get more funding for the CalgaryNext Project, LRT to the Airport, improved winter sports facilities and improved roadways - I am all for it!!! We can use the Olympics as a means to improve our city for the future, like we did in 88, and capitalize on funding from multiple levels of government not just local. And as others have stated if we can manage the Olympics properly, once again like we did in 88, we should be able to break even. Lots of good for the City could come from this.

Quote that sums things up

"The best way to think about this is in terms of leveraging … and what you are attempting to do is use the vehicle of the event [Olympics] to achieve other public policy objectives,” he said. “Arguably the Sea-to-Sky Highway, the Canada Line, the Convention Centre, the community centres, those are the other public policy objectives that you are trying to achieve – and the Games provided the vehicle for doing that.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/vancouver-olympics-worth-the-7-billion-price-tag-study-says/article15036916/

[Table 5]

Just throwing this out there -- if CalgaryNext gets built and McMahon gets bulldozed, could that be a potential candidate for a new Olympic Village?

I actually think West Village would make a perfect candidate for an Olympic village, especially if there's a arena/stadium. Build them as condos that you can sell after the Games.

[Ozy_Flame]

I actually think West Village would make a perfect candidate for an Olympic village, especially if there's a arena/stadium. Build them as condos that you can sell after the Games.

Exactly what happened to the old Olympic Village

[Jordan!]

Exactly what happened to the old Olympic Village

I used to live there, in Coach Hill. Turned into very expensive condos

[Bill Bumface]

I'm 100% for supporting an Olympic Bid. 27 years after the 1988 Olympics I am still using some of the facilities that were built for it.

Examples:
- Olympic Oval and Oval Hockey rink
- Nakiska
- Saddledome (yes I know this wasn't built specifically for the olympics)
- COP and the Winsport complex that has been built around it in the years following

Don't forget the NW LRT line.

I'd host a two week Samba competition if it meant getting some sweet sweet government money for the Green Line.

[Northendzone]

persoanlly, i think spending money on the olympics is a bad idea - to me it would just be cheaper to not host the games, and just update the required facilities. it costs millions just to submit a bid.

as a resident, i would not be excited to deal with traffic nightmares (shutting down lanes on roadways so olympic officials can cruise in comfort and not ahve to be bothered with traffic) and the increases to the cost of living.

[Hack&Lube]

If i am not mistaken, the 1988 Olympics were the first winter Olympics to turn a profit

Maybe I was too young to remember correctly but I seem to recall huge amounts of sponsorship from Oil & Gas and that was one of the reasons why it was profitable. Is that true? I have pictures of a tiny me wearing Petro Canada Olympic apparel.

[BigFlameDog]

He's right though. It will be very tough to reuse the buildings from 1988 which are being reused for these new Olympics after having been reused by the public for the last 27 years.

I got you.....

[craigwd]

Exactly what happened to the old Olympic Village

Technically the old athletes village was at the UofC.
The Signal Hill condos were for the international media.

[BigFlameDog]

If it breaks even or actually turned even a $2 profit then who gives a crap if the olympics are only two weeks and a vacation for rich whomever.....

Calgary would have had another amazing two week party and lasting legacies of buildings and facilities that are paid for.

I swear some of you aren't happy unless you are complaining.

[Resolute 14]

Maybe I was too young to remember correctly but I seem to recall huge amounts of sponsorship from Oil & Gas and that was one of the reasons why it was profitable. Is that true? I have pictures of a tiny me wearing Petro Canada Olympic apparel.

The IOC had a new marketing strategy that took effect in 1988, which helped Calgary a lot. Also of benefit was the American broadcasters waaaaay overpaid for TV rights.

[Domoic]

I was 18 years old and living in Calgary when the city hosted the Games.

You think the Stampede is a party?

You think the Red Mile in '04 was a big deal?

I was blown away by what transpired during that 2 week period in 1988.

I cannot think of any single event that transformed the city more than the Olympic games did.

Assuming some level of fiscal responsibility, everyone living in Alberta should want this.

[tvp2003]

I actually think West Village would make a perfect candidate for an Olympic village, especially if there's a arena/stadium. Build them as condos that you can sell after the Games.

Given the cost to develop/remediate I would imagine you would have to maximize the value/profit from developing that remaining land; not sure if building an Olympic village and then converting it to condo's would do that.

On some level we could look to what Vancouver did for 2010 (which was was converted to condos/mixed use)...

[polak]

Technically the old athletes village was at the UofC.
The Signal Hill condos were for the international media.

Pretty sure you have that messed up. I was told that the old athletes village were the condos on signal hill and that the MRU east res was the media village. Maybe the media stayed both at MRU and UofC?

Either way. I hope they do it.

[JohnnyT]

I think Calgary has to be a shinning example for the IOC, I mean look at how many of the facilities are still in use to today. Now if Calgary wants to continue to be a hub for Canadian winter Olympic athletes then these facilities will need an update sooner or later, so it would make sense to me that hosting another Winter Olympics would be the sensible way to update all of these facilities while at the same time upgrading other infrastructure around the city.

I kinda hate that Calgary NEXT will be directly tied to this proposal because I think it will negatively sway a large number of people, but I am all for spending the money to upgrade our current Olympic facilities up to todays international standards along with a few new facilities here and there so Calgary can remain a hub for our athletes training. Plus there will be infrastructure benefits those who will never use one of the facilities

[Maccalus]

Pretty sure you have that messed up. I was told that the old athletes village were the condos on signal hill and that the MRU east res was the media village. Maybe the media stayed both at MRU and UofC?

Either way. I hope they do it.

Stolen from wikipedia for what it is worth

"Calgary 1988: Presently student accommodations on the campus of the University of Calgary. The athlete's village consisted of the existing Kananaskis, Rundle, Castle, Norquay and Brewster buildings, as well as the newly constructed Glacier and Olympus buildings."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Village

[dustygoon]

They did not. Spent ~$1.9 billion and broke even.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-2010-winter-olympics-debt-free-vanoc-final-report-says-1.2695994


Don't believe that for one second.

[Frequitude]

Winter Olympics facilities leave a more usable set of infrastructure compared to its Summer brethren. Sure you need to throw some money into ski jumps and sliding tracks which will only be used by hardcore athletes, but most of the rest are fairly well used by the public.

Arenas (hockey, figure skating, short track speed skating, curling)
Ski hills (alpine skiing, freestyle skiing, snowboarding)
Nordic Centre (biathlon, cross country skiing)

The only event I missed is speed skating which I'd say falls halfway between public use and hardcore athletes only.

Calgary would put together a very efficient bid. The only thing that would make it run away is how many bells and whistles we want to add (e.g. high speed train to Banff, road upgrades, etc.).

[Enoch Root]

How does making the facility tied to the Olympics somehow make it a more lasting legacy than if it's not tied to the Olympics? Because the whole world gets to see the new facilty for two weeks?

Anyway we all know this is usually a spectacular waste of money, very little gained long term, and it makes one of the two most corrupt organizations on earth rich. Recently when western countries have been given the chance to vote on hosting the Olympics, they have overwhelmingly rejected it. I suspect it'd be the same here.

Seriously? Calgary has benefitted IMMENSELY from '88 in a myriad of ways, and in almost countless amateur sports. And it is still reaping benefits 27 years later.

As for the cost, not only does it bring in provincial and federal funding which aids in getting infrastructure projects completed (as the article above discusses), but Calgary has a huge head start already, with several facilities in place or simply needing an upgrade.

Even major upgrades (like the bobsleigh track would need) are typically cheaper than starting from scratch. The land is already committed, the facilities are already there - an upgrade means they can continue to benefit Calgary for another 25 years.

Yes, the IOC are a disgusting organization. But conversely, the Olympics are a wonderful event.

You have to look at the specifics when you weigh the costs and the benefits. Calgary is in a pretty unique position whereby the costs can be controlled and contained to a pretty significant degree.

And no city should be more aware of the benefits than Calgary already is.

I would be strongly in favour of this. And I would not be even a little surprised if an Olympic bid becomes part of the process for CalgaryNext.

[polak]

A high speed train to Banff feels like it would be heavily used year-round. Every tourist we get is here to see Banff.

[skudr248]

People talking about traffic nightmares for 2 weeks? Holy hell, are you serious?

This bid would be great for the city.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Pretty sure you have that messed up. I was told that the old athletes village were the condos on signal hill and that the MRU east res was the media village. Maybe the media stayed both at MRU and UofC?

Either way. I hope they do it.

Nope. I was a University student at that time and worked in the catering department as well. The U of C was the athletes village. Basically shut down the place for 3 weeks.

Best memory: the big party at the Jack Simpson when it was all over. Very drunk people having a good time.

[Flash Walken]

This sounds like a massive money pit.

[Resolute 14]

Don't believe that for one second.

Independent auditors did.

[Frequitude]

So if Vancouver spent $1.9B, let's say a somewhat dissapointing "return" would be a loss of $500M.

Given the benefit of hindsight looking at the facilities and infrastructure left over, does anyone think that if '88 had "lost" $500M in today's dollar that that would have been a bad deal?

I say "lost" because that implies and operating income shortfall when it really should be considered a capital expenditure investment. Wondering if people think we would have got enough bang for the buck for a theoretical $500M investment. What about $1B? Curious on the threshold.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Seriously? Calgary has benefitted IMMENSELY from '88 in a myriad of ways, and in almost countless amateur sports. And it is still reaping benefits 27 years later.

As for the cost, not only does it bring in provincial and federal funding which aids in getting infrastructure projects completed (as the article above discusses), but Calgary has a huge head start already, with several facilities in place or simply needing an upgrade.

Even major upgrades (like the bobsleigh track would need) are typically cheaper than starting from scratch. The land is already committed, the facilities are already there - an upgrade means they can continue to benefit Calgary for another 25 years.

Yes, the IOC are a disgusting organization. But conversely, the Olympics are a wonderful event.

You have to look at the specifics when you weigh the costs and the benefits. Calgary is in a pretty unique position whereby the costs can be controlled and contained to a pretty significant degree.

And no city should be more aware of the benefits than Calgary already is.

I would be strongly in favour of this. And I would not be even a little surprised if an Olympic bid becomes part of the process for CalgaryNext.

That was in 1988. Right now the only major thing Calgary needs desperately to fix is Crowchild/Bow, and that's probably a $2 billion project. So obviously that's not getting tied in. Green line is already happening, so is the Ring Road. Other than that? Can't think of anything badly needed.

Facility upgrades? Meh, spend that money to upgrade schools and hospitals instead, those are things the public needs, not winter facilities which are wants. I get that winter sports fans won't agree, but that doesn't change what deserves fiscal priority. Even low end though, you're looking at around $500 million in upgrades to be ready for the 2026 Olympics, which you have to remember could have twice as many athletes as 1988. No dispute that it'll be cheaper than building from scratch, but that doesn't mean it'll be cheap. And there will still need to be quite a few new facilities needed for the many new events since 1988.

And then there's security, which is guaranteed to be a minimum of $1 billion, the cost it was in Vancouver. Factoring in inflation and such, probably $1.25 billion at a minimum. And that assumes nothing changes the dynamic. A terrorist attack in North America anywhere close to this event ensures a significant rise in security costs. So it's wild, unpredictable variable.

So right there, just a basic estimate is looking at $2 billion, and that assumes everything goes right which we know it won't. And that always forgets that sports now are more money based than ever. Tickets will likely be, relatively speaking, much more expensive than 1988. I get that people want the Olympics, it's just very poor fiscal management to spend any money on it.

[DoubleF]

IIRC, for the Vancouver Olympics, there were articles that highlighted some issues with our training facilities. Our facilities are getting dated and I believe some North American athletes were saying they might not be able to or want to train in Calgary any longer.

I recall SAIT getting recognition for building training luge boards (term?) as apparently there was a world wide Luge board shortage? Mount Royal upped their sports training programs etc. during that Olympics too. Bads? More people here may mean more crowds in our beautiful back yards even after the Olympics. Cost, no need to keep going, others have already chimed in. Canmore might not be the same nice and quiet alternative to Banff long run. Traffic? I personally think this would be a wash. Airport to West has Stony Trail which isn't generally congested, though the Stony to TransCanada perhaps could use a minor tweak. Downtown disruption IMO wouldn't be much worse than the Stampede.

State of the art facilities would attract athletes from around the world, perhaps not just for winter sports. Tourism may increase long term as well. Ironically, I've always hated the idea of trying to quantify long term benefits, but there seriously is a huge argument for it here.

Does Calgary need the Olympics? no. Would it be nice? Yes.
Would it cost a lot? Sure. But I don't think we would lose huge amount of money and the city wouldn't be a ruin in the end either.

If anything, I could see the city benefiting from great improvements across the board. If anything, additional provincial and federal funding aiding things like infrastructure and "wants" would free up more future provincial and municipal funds for the things like schools and hospitals that were mentioned earlier. But that's just my opinion. Anyone is free to disagree.

[Reaper]

I know it would never happen but I keep laughing at a scene where there is intense coverage of an Olympic long track speed skating event. As the camera pans out after the first turn it reveals that there is a rec hockey game currently going on in the one end of the oval. The speed skaters all gag from the smell of hockey as they enter the back turn.

[undercoverbrother]

Seriously? Calgary has benefitted IMMENSELY from '88 in a myriad of ways, and in almost countless amateur sports. And it is still reaping benefits 27 years later.

As for the cost, not only does it bring in provincial and federal funding which aids in getting infrastructure projects completed (as the article above discusses), but Calgary has a huge head start already, with several facilities in place or simply needing an upgrade.

Even major upgrades (like the bobsleigh track would need) are typically cheaper than starting from scratch. The land is already committed, the facilities are already there - an upgrade means they can continue to benefit Calgary for another 25 years.

Yes, the IOC are a disgusting organization. But conversely, the Olympics are a wonderful event.

You have to look at the specifics when you weigh the costs and the benefits. Calgary is in a pretty unique position whereby the costs can be controlled and contained to a pretty significant degree.

And no city should be more aware of the benefits than Calgary already is.

I would be strongly in favour of this. And I would not be even a little surprised if an Olympic bid becomes part of the process for CalgaryNext.


It was a Dump in the 90's

[cam_wmh]

Goodness. How do these cities spend $1bn on security? Seems so excessive.

[Resolute 14]

Goodness. How do these cities spend $1bn on security? Seems so excessive.

It does, but given what has happened in the past, it is also probably necessary. Vancouver's security budget was probably higher than what Calgary would be given there was an Olympic riot in Vancouver that is far less likely to happen here.

Over a third of VANOC's budget came from the IOC itself, and that helps mitigate the cost of these things.

[Locke]

I am generally opposed to Olympics, especially after the Boondoggle that was Sochi, but, I'll soften my stance a little.

If Calgary were to get the Olympics and not spend like drunken sailors, the City could get some External Revenue as well as some Federal and Provincial funding to re-model parts of the City as well as fund infrastructure that otherwise the City would have to pay for on its own.

[Flash Walken]

Goodness. How do these cities spend $1bn on security? Seems so excessive.

Because of the waterfront proximity to many of the Vancouver events, it is a much more difficult location to secure than a Calgary venue would be.

That's one thing Calgary has going for it.

I don't really think theh games required things like Mid-Air refuelling tankers for around the clock jet support, but what do I know?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Goodness. How do these cities spend $1bn on security? Seems so excessive.

The worst part is the initial budget called for only $200 million to be spent on security. These things never come in on or below budget, so whatever total cost is quoted can pretty much be guaranteed to be the low end of what it will actually cost.

[Flash Walken]

The worst part is the initial budget called for only $200 million to be spent on security. These things never come in on or below budget, so whatever total cost is quoted can pretty much be guaranteed to be the low end of what it will actually cost.

*ahem*, $175 million...

It was BC Place that was supposed to be ~200 million.

[CliffFletcher]

Folks, there's a reason why sensible democracies like Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Norway are backing out of Olympic bids. This isn't 1988 anymore. The cost of these global events is enormous, and becoming attractive only to dictatorships and authoritarian oligarchies. I get that ignoring the bad and hoping for only the good is part of the makeup of being a sports fan. But we're talking billions and billions of dollars here. Don't let the prospect of two weeks of happy feels saddle your kids with a public fiscal hangover that will last decades.

The Bidding For The 2022 Olympics Is A Disaster Because Everyone Figured Out That Hosting Is A Total Waste (http://www.businessinsider.com/2022-olympics-host-bidding-2014-10)

Researchers have known for years that hosting large sporting events like the Olympics always costs more than expected and always yields less revenue and useful long-term infrastructure than estimated. Now voters and politicians in countries with democratically elected governments are starting to realize the same thing.

[undercoverbrother]

Folks, there's a reason why sensible democracies like Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Norway are backing out of Olympic bids. This isn't 1988 anymore. The cost of these global events is enormous, and becoming attractive only to dictatorships and authoritarian oligarchies. I get that ignoring the bad and hoping for only the good is part of the makeup of being a sports fan. But we're talking billions and billions of dollars here. Don't let the prospect of two weeks of happy feels saddle your kids with a public fiscal hangover that will last decades.

The Bidding For The 2022 Olympics Is A Disaster Because Everyone Figured Out That Hosting Is A Total Waste (http://www.businessinsider.com/2022-olympics-host-bidding-2014-10)


I wonder if this is the end of the Olympics as we know them.

Most sports have a yearly "World Championship".

[Bandwagon In Flames]

The thing is, Calgary is a very viable place to host the Olympics. The infrastructure is already in place and while renovations may be needed, that's still much cheaper than building from scratch.

There are new rules in place allowing pre-existing facilities to be used for the Olympics. That rule was implemented specifically because of places like Calgary, where the only thing holding them back was requiring brand new facilities be built when suitable options were already in place.

[Locke]

Folks, there's a reason why sensible democracies like Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Norway are backing out of Olympic bids. This isn't 1988 anymore. The cost of these global events is enormous, and becoming attractive only to dictatorships and authoritarian oligarchies. I get that ignoring the bad and hoping for only the good is part of the makeup of being a sports fan. But we're talking billions and billions of dollars here. Don't let the prospect of two weeks of happy feels saddle your kids with a public fiscal hangover that will last decades.

The Bidding For The 2022 Olympics Is A Disaster Because Everyone Figured Out That Hosting Is A Total Waste (http://www.businessinsider.com/2022-olympics-host-bidding-2014-10)

While I agree for the most part, I think where a lot of it breaks down is the use of existing infrastructure.

Sochi is a perfect example, they picked a terrible place and had to build everything from scratch and then no one actually lives there so its all wasted afterwards.

Those dictatorships and oligarchies are trying to show that they have money to spend and are more interested in bringing people in to show off than they are in anything else.

If Calgary decided we wanted to host the Olympics again the primary focus would have to be on what we wanted left after the party is over.

If we sunk money into COP, Winsport, a new arena, West Village redevelopment, road infrastructure, rail/transit infrastructure, etc, and all of it was left over then I could see it being potentially viable.

Assuming it doesnt go grossly over-budget as these things are prone to do.

I guess in my mind I think to myself:

If we want to do all of these projects, it will cost the City $1B. If we get them done via an Olympic bid then we'll also get other sources taking small chunks out of that bill but we get to keep the stuff and it all happens a lot sooner.

So even if the event takes a loss but the City gets some assets it could still be beneficial.

[CliffFletcher]

I wonder if this is the end of the Olympics as we know them.


I think we are seeing the twilight of the Olympics (along with the World Cup). These mega-events have simply become too big and too costly. With the growing track record of cost over-runs and corruption, and chronic security concerns, public support for hosting is cratering. The Winter Olympics will probably go first, as it needs to be held in a winter climate, but democracies aren't interested in hosting any more.

[SuperMatt18]

The issue has less to do with the events but more to do with the locations picked.

The Olympics and World Cup are only not feasible because they decide to host the events in countries that it makes no sense.

Salt Lake, Vancouver, L.A., London were successful places because they had some of the necessary facilities, which made it easier to build the facilities that were needed at a smaller lift.

Same thing with hosting the World Cup in France (98) or Germany (06).

But when you start going to remote places like Sochi where you need to build everything from scratch. Or host a World Cup in Brazil and build a stadium in the rainforest then it becomes ridiculous and too expensive.

For two reasons: You have to build everything from scratch, and all the facilities and infrastructure is a waste because it isn't needed on a regular basis.

A place like England, Germany, could easily host the World Cup (or even Olympics) every 4 years because they have all the state of the art facilities already. Could even do it in the U.S. will all the state of the art football stadiums they have.

As Locke mentioned you could argue that everything that would get fixed with a Olympic bid could be argued that it needs to get done eventually anyways.

[undercoverbrother]

I think we are seeing the twilight of the Olympics (along with the World Cup). These mega-events have simply become too big and too costly. With the growing track record of cost over-runs and corruption, and chronic security concerns, public support for hosting is cratering. The Winter Olympics will probably go first, as it needs to be held in a winter climate, but democracies aren't interested in hosting any more.

I have a distant memory that athletes place a higher honour on a World Championship gold and an olympic gold.

[polak]

Folks, there's a reason why sensible democracies like Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Norway are backing out of Olympic bids. This isn't 1988 anymore. The cost of these global events is enormous, and becoming attractive only to dictatorships and authoritarian oligarchies. I get that ignoring the bad and hoping for only the good is part of the makeup of being a sports fan. But we're talking billions and billions of dollars here. Don't let the prospect of two weeks of happy feels saddle your kids with a public fiscal hangover that will last decades.

The Bidding For The 2022 Olympics Is A Disaster Because Everyone Figured Out That Hosting Is A Total Waste (http://www.businessinsider.com/2022-olympics-host-bidding-2014-10)

If it makes a profit or breaks even, or even just loses a small amount, yet it spurs infrastructure upgrades and revitalization projects and helps partially fund that then I don't see how it's a waste? Yes if we screw up, than it can be a disaster, but if it's done right?

Pay 1B to revitalize the West Village out of the cities pockets, or pay 1B to build a Olympic Village there with the help of extra funds from a successful bid?

[Bandwagon In Flames]

If it makes a profit or breaks even, or even just loses a small amount, yet it spurs infrastructure upgrades and revitalization projects and helps partially fund that then I don't see how it's a waste? Yes if we screw up, than it can be a disaster, but if it's done right?

Pay 1B to revitalize the West Village out of the cities pockets, or pay 1B to build a Olympic Village there with the help of extra funds from a successful bid?

Cliff is a TML homer who hates everything related to Calgary or the Flames. Don't ask me why he frequents CP forums apart from stepping up for Dion Phaneuf any chance he gets.

[CliffFletcher]

Cliff is a TML homer who hates everything related to Calgary or the Flames. Don't ask me why he frequents CP forums apart from stepping up for Dion Phaneuf any chance he gets.

:blink:

[Locke]

:blink:

Heathen.

[Aeneas]

Cliff "big tuna" Fletcher?

[craigwd]

I have a distant memory that athletes place a higher honour on a World Championship gold and an olympic gold.

Definitely not the case.
Olympic champion is the pinnacle goal of all high performance athletes I know.

[DoubleF]

Folks, there's a reason why sensible democracies like Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Norway are backing out of Olympic bids. This isn't 1988 anymore. The cost of these global events is enormous, and becoming attractive only to dictatorships and authoritarian oligarchies. I get that ignoring the bad and hoping for only the good is part of the makeup of being a sports fan. But we're talking billions and billions of dollars here. Don't let the prospect of two weeks of happy feels saddle your kids with a public fiscal hangover that will last decades.

The Bidding For The 2022 Olympics Is A Disaster Because Everyone Figured Out That Hosting Is A Total Waste (http://www.businessinsider.com/2022-olympics-host-bidding-2014-10)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games

I would have liked it if the article didn't cherry pick the two biggest debacles of the last two decades.

Nagano and Sydney were completely weird as well.

However, I would imagine that we fall closer to the Vancouver profit/loss number and learn from the successes and mistakes there, no? I think a huge part of the Calgary bid is that Calgary intends to continue to use most venues/upgrades well after the games and not erecting costly temporary venues to host games.

[undercoverbrother]

Definitely not the case.
Olympic champion is the pinnacle goal of all high performance athletes I know.


As I said, I am going from memory, which is getting worse and worse.

It seems to me they say it this way:


World Championship: High/tighter criteria to get in, threshold is set by the international governing body.
Olympics: A lower threshold to get in, often set by the country's own association.



This was a guest speaker in a class I took at Uni, which was many years ago.

In short, you don't get guys like Eddie the Eagle at World Championships of Ski Jumping because he can't qualify.


Again this is from memory.

[GioforPM]

As I said, I am going from memory, which is getting worse and worse.

It seems to me they say it this way:


World Championship: High/tighter criteria to get in, threshold is set by the international governing body.
Olympics: A lower threshold to get in, often set by the country's own association.



This was a guest speaker in a class I took at Uni, which was many years ago.

In short, you don't get guys like Eddie the Eagle at World Championships of Ski Jumping because he can't qualify.


Again this is from memory.

Maybe, but most WCs happen every year which makes the Olympics more special. The qualifying is certainly less stringent in the Olympics, but winning the gold is arguably harder.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

:blink:

Sorry I most definitely got you and Big Tuna mixed up for some reason.

I recall you as the old cranky man of CP. More accurate?

[GirlySports]

The issue has less to do with the events but more to do with the locations picked.

The Olympics and World Cup are only not feasible because they decide to host the events in countries that it makes no sense.

Salt Lake, Vancouver, L.A., London were successful places because they had some of the necessary facilities, which made it easier to build the facilities that were needed at a smaller lift.

Same thing with hosting the World Cup in France (98) or Germany (06).

But when you start going to remote places like Sochi where you need to build everything from scratch. Or host a World Cup in Brazil and build a stadium in the rainforest then it becomes ridiculous and too expensive.

For two reasons: You have to build everything from scratch, and all the facilities and infrastructure is a waste because it isn't needed on a regular basis.

A place like England, Germany, could easily host the World Cup (or even Olympics) every 4 years because they have all the state of the art facilities already. Could even do it in the U.S. will all the state of the art football stadiums they have.

As Locke mentioned you could argue that everything that would get fixed with a Olympic bid could be argued that it needs to get done eventually anyways.

yes

London 2012 made money. Vancouver was close.

Olympics arent the money pit theyre made out to be unless youre communist or 3rd world.

Rio will lose a fortune. Pyeongchang will be fine.

[Looch City]

Man I can't imagine what the Red Mile would be like for the hockey games. :w00t:

[undercoverbrother]

Maybe, but most WCs happen every year which makes the Olympics more special. The qualifying is certainly less stringent in the Olympics, but winning the gold is arguably harder.

I am interested in your reasoning on this.

[dustygoon]

Independent auditors did.

Yep. It was audited. But that isn't my point. Not going to geek out, but I think they use nonprofit fund accounting rules...means you have different pools of funds for different activities. There is a set of financials for each fund showing revenues and expenses. This cbc article shows the "operating budget" numbers. And they perfectly balance. Of course they do, because someone has to pay for the expenses. Lots in there from Canada and BC governments. And that is just the operating budget. The "Venue" fund is another fund that is used for site development. Lots in there from the governments too.

Check out page 18:

http://www.fin.gov.bc.ca/reports/2010_VANOC_Financial_report_English.pdf

It's just who had to pick up the unpaid bills (taxpayers....which they did). I am not against gov't spending on olympics....there is some future net benefit. But saying they "broke-even" is disingenuous. This particular fund broke even.

[Cappy]

yes

London 2012 made money. Vancouver was close.

Olympics arent the money pit theyre made out to be unless youre communist or 3rd world.

Rio will lose a fortune. Pyeongchang will be fine.

I haven't found too much regarding the London Olympics making money.

In my brief search I found this accounting site's take. http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/article/london-olympics-was-it-financial-success/533157

It was obviously done right after so its tough to gauge how it has done over the last few years. Interesting to note though, is this:

But it also comes down to how you choose to crunch the data. When accounting for the cost of hosting an Olympics, most countries (including the UK) have treated the cost of constructing facilities and infrastructure, together with security and other ancillary costs, as being separate from the cost of running the games itself.

Many of the cities claiming success have quite skewed numbers as they fail to adjust for taxpayer contributions or other government funding.

I also find it interesting that the only games since 2000 to make a profit (according to the Wikipedia article) was Salt Lake City.

I would love the olympics. I went to a few hockey games in Van (including Can v Rus) and had a great time. I also find the Olympics a far greater time if you travel to them. Its more of a vacation/party than staying at home.

I also remember reading somewhere that Nakiska could not host the downhills anymore because the IOC slope requirements have changed... Is that true?

Based on that, as well as the countless research that suggests all the benefits of the olympics are outweighed by the cost, I would rather have them somewhere else.

[Enoch Root]

Folks, there's a reason why sensible democracies like Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Norway are backing out of Olympic bids. This isn't 1988 anymore. The cost of these global events is enormous, and becoming attractive only to dictatorships and authoritarian oligarchies. I get that ignoring the bad and hoping for only the good is part of the makeup of being a sports fan. But we're talking billions and billions of dollars here. Don't let the prospect of two weeks of happy feels saddle your kids with a public fiscal hangover that will last decades.

The Bidding For The 2022 Olympics Is A Disaster Because Everyone Figured Out That Hosting Is A Total Waste (http://www.businessinsider.com/2022-olympics-host-bidding-2014-10)

lol

You speak for all northern European nations now?

I am going to go out on a limb and make two bold and crazy predictions:

1) the Olympics don't die anytime soon, and

2) at least one of the countries listed above will host them again

[polak]

I also remember reading somewhere that Nakiska could not host the downhills anymore because the IOC slope requirements have changed... Is that true?


I believe it is.

Louise is a world cup course though and we have a fenced, two lane, divided highway all the way there.

[DoubleF]

Yep. It was audited. But that isn't my point. Not going to geek out, but I think they use nonprofit fund accounting rules...means you have different pools of funds for different activities. There is a set of financials for each fund showing revenues and expenses. This cbc article shows the "operating budget" numbers. And they perfectly balance. Of course they do, because someone has to pay for the expenses. Lots in there from Canada and BC governments. And that is just the operating budget. The "Venue" fund is another fund that is used for site development. Lots in there from the governments too.

Check out page 18:

http://www.fin.gov.bc.ca/reports/2010_VANOC_Financial_report_English.pdf

It's just who had to pick up the unpaid bills (taxpayers....which they did). I am not against gov't spending on olympics....there is some future net benefit. But saying they "broke-even" is disingenuous. This particular fund broke even.

Umm... a budget is a tool. Furthermore, a budget is imaginary and made up. I would explain a budget as being lines in a coloring book. It's there to guide proper allocation of colors and resources, but the moment you decide to "draw outside the lines", it's useless.

Example: If I budget $1500 for a tv, I have created an imaginary boundary for which to work with. The budget hence becomes completely useless if I decide to blow $5000 on a home theatre system.

Of course the budget will balance. No one generally wants to put together a budget that doesn't balance. Doing so is the equivalent of saying you want to operate with a flawed set of boundaries to work with (ie: spend more than you have or will receive on purpose). I guess you could even say it's the equivalent of a quantified business plan. Back to the home theatre example, no one will say, "I have $1500 in the bank for a TV, I will budget to spend $5000".


Not going to discuss fund accounting. It's pretty much the equivalent of consolidated statements though in a nutshell.

[craigwd]

Maybe, but most WCs happen every year which makes the Olympics more special. The qualifying is certainly less stringent in the Olympics, but winning the gold is arguably harder.

For the most part, and in most sports both Summer and Winter, I believe the qualifying criteria and methods are pretty much the same for both a World Championship or an Olympic Games.

I'm racking my brain and can't really think of any that are "easier" or less stringent.

The days of Eddie the Eagle are long gone.

[craigwd]

I believe it is.

Louise is a world cup course though and we have a fenced, two lane, divided highway all the way there.

Nakiska was a compromise site anyways 30 years ago because people didn't want events held in a National Park. Obviously that mindset has changed and Lake Louise is a darling event on the calendar.

[dustygoon]

Umm... a budget is a tool. Furthermore, a budget is imaginary and made up. I would explain a budget as being lines in a coloring book. It's there to guide proper allocation of colors and resources, but the moment you decide to "draw outside the lines", it's useless.

Example: If I budget $1500 for a tv, I have created an imaginary boundary for which to work with. The budget hence becomes completely useless if I decide to blow $5000 on a home theatre system.

Of course the budget will balance. No one generally wants to put together a budget that doesn't balance. Doing so is the equivalent of saying you want to operate with a flawed set of boundaries to work with (ie: spend more than you have or will receive on purpose). I guess you could even say it's the equivalent of a quantified business plan. Back to the home theatre example, no one will say, "I have $1500 in the bank for a TV, I will budget to spend $5000".


Not going to discuss fund accounting. It's pretty much the equivalent of consolidated statements though in a nutshell.

Ya...i meant operating fund not operating budget. But thanks for the notes on how a budget works!

And no....fund accounting is not pretty much the equivalent of consolidated statements. Its actually the opposite almost conceptually in this case. There are separate funds for each activity...operating, venue development, etc. They are self balancing. The operating fund (the one mentioned in cbc article) is exactly balanced ("break-even!!!"), but this is achieved through funding ("revenues!!!") from another source ("the government...dammit"). And does not include the juicy stuff...the venue development costs which are shown in the Venue Fund. But you could consolidate them, and then it could result in a deficit at the government level depending on other fudgery pokery ("government owned assets!!!").

[Tyler]

LOL at the 40+ crowd saying no to hosting the Olympics after they all got to enjoy it in 88.

Seems about right for this site.

[dustygoon]

LOL at the 40+ crowd saying no to hosting the Olympics after they all got to enjoy it in 88.

Seems about right for this site.

Whoa whoa. I want Calgary to have it. (says guy over 40 living in different country)

[getbak]

LOL at the 40+ crowd saying no to hosting the Olympics after they all got to enjoy it in 88.

Seems about right for this site.
I'm the exact wrong age for this. I was only 14 in 1988, so I was too young to really enjoy the full party; and I'll be 52 in 2026, so I'll be the creepy old guy enjoying the party then.

I still support going for it.

[SebC]

That was in 1988. Right now the only major thing Calgary needs desperately to fix is Crowchild/Bow, and that's probably a $2 billion project. So obviously that's not getting tied in. Green line is already happening, so is the Ring Road. Other than that? Can't think of anything badly needed.You're thinking about our needs now, not in 11 years. I can forsee the 8th Ave subway and airport rail connection being well due by that time (I personally think 8th Ave subway is overdue already and massively underprioritized). And even if you still think they're luxuries, they'd be damn good luxuries to get done.

[Joborule]

LOL at the 40+ crowd saying no to hosting the Olympics after they all got to enjoy it in 88.

Seems about right for this site.

I didn't get to experience it since it was before my time, so eff yeah I want this if it doesn't break the bank.

[getbak]

You're thinking about our needs now, not in 11 years. I can forsee the 8th Ave subway and airport rail connection being well due by that time (I personally think 8th Ave subway is overdue already and massively underprioritized). And even if you still think they're luxuries, they'd be damn good luxuries to get done.
Yup, those are the two big transit projects that would probably get funded as part of an Olympic preparation. Definitely the Airport C-Train link.

[Erick Estrada]

LOL at the 40+ crowd saying no to hosting the Olympics after they all got to enjoy it in 88.

Seems about right for this site.

I wouldn't say that at all. Some of the most crusty posters around here when it comes to taxpayer money going into anything sports related are the younger ones. I'm all for getting another Olympics as it's something you always remember and it's arguably the most special event a city can host.

[#-3]

The timing is really good.

For Ice sports.

Calgary next, Major Arena and Stadium will be brand new.
The Saddle dome could be maintained as a secondary arena for figure skating and/or curling.
Winsport rinks provide another great surface, with 1/4 of the seating capacity for events that don't need 18K + tickets.
The Oval will need a big push.

For Skiing/Snowboarding,

COP could be effective for some of the freestyle events with little upgrades.
Lake Louis has a large upgrade on the books and could easily incorporate downhill events.
X-country not really a big issue.
The jumps will need a complete make over.

For Sliding

A complete upgrade will be needed

For politics and public infrastructure

The IOC is more unlikely to be corrupt right now than ever. So bribery etc from competitive bids is not likely to be an issue.
The LRT expansion should be happening by then, and might just see an extra push to get done sooner.
If we are lucky might push the Air Port spur.
The major Air Port upgrade will be fairly fresh.
I see the Athletes village being the biggest issue.
Its about the right timing for completion of the ring road

Things to budget for that aren't going to happen anyway
Up keep of the Saddledome as a rink for 3 or 4 years.
Early completion of the ring road and green line
Rebuilding the Oval, Slidding Track and Ski Jumps
An Airport LRT Spur
Improved X Country facilities
An Athletes Village/Media Pavilion.

That would probably make for a pretty cheap Olympic bid, and I think you could argue the merits of 4/6 on their own even without an Olympic Bid.

[Strange Brew]

The Olympics in Calgary were incredible. I was in college at the time (enjoyed the long breaK0 and am thankful for the experience. A big yes to Calgary going for it again.

As for the debate about Olympics making money/ breaking even etc. Unfortunately there is no universal agreed upon measure for assessing the profitability of an olympics. To me, it all comes down to how much money the taxpayer is having to kick in to fund the public portion of the bill. The long term effect is hard to quantify but I believe it is real.

[Table 5]

Medal Plaza: Olympic Plaza already exists, no new costs.

Agree with most of your list, except for this one. Olympic plaza is one tired dog with all that cold concrete, fake roman columns, and bunkery hills. It may have been ok in the 80s, but holding ceremonies there would be kind of embarrassing considering how future-facing Olympics tend to be.

I think is primed for redevelopment into something much higher quality, and an Olympics could be the catalyst to do that. In my dream costs-be-damned scenario, Macleod Trail in front of city hall is dropped below grade, and we connect Olympic Plaza/Stephen Ave with the city hall plaza to create one big gathering space.

There is actually already talk of tunnelling through City hall to East Village and upgrading McLeod Trail to more of a scenic boulevard. Upgrading Olympic Plaza as well makes sense.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-s-civic-district-near-city-hall-reimagined-in-new-strategy-1.3220225

[FireGilbert]

LOL at the 40+ crowd saying no to hosting the Olympics after they all got to enjoy it in 88.

Seems about right for this site.

I don't understand this comment. If you really want to experience the Winter Olympics nothing is stopping you from flying to South Korea. You don't actually have to wait around Calgary for it to come to you.

Calgarians who enjoyed the 88 Olympics are more than welcome to criticize hosting a future event since the economics and security concerns have drastically changed since then.

[DoubleF]

Ya...i meant operating fund not operating budget. But thanks for the notes on how a budget works!

And no....fund accounting is not pretty much the equivalent of consolidated statements. Its actually the opposite almost conceptually in this case. There are separate funds for each activity...operating, venue development, etc. They are self balancing. The operating fund (the one mentioned in cbc article) is exactly balanced ("break-even!!!"), but this is achieved through funding ("revenues!!!") from another source ("the government...dammit"). And does not include the juicy stuff...the venue development costs which are shown in the Venue Fund. But you could consolidate them, and then it could result in a deficit at the government level depending on other fudgery pokery ("government owned assets!!!").

Well, not an exact same explanation of consolidated statements, but idea wise. Each column could potentially be considered a division or subsidiary. Each column would show the performance of that pool. I will admit the explanation is likely over simplified though, my bad.

[underGRADFlame]

Agree with most of your list, except for this one. Olympic plaza is one tired dog with all that cold concrete, fake roman columns, and bunkery hills. It may have been ok in the 80s, but holding ceremonies there would be kind of embarrassing considering how future-facing Olympics tend to be.

I think is primed for redevelopment into something much higher quality, and an Olympics could be the catalyst to do that. In my dream costs-be-damned scenario, Macleod Trail in front of city hall is dropped below grade, and we connect Olympic Plaza/Stephen Ave with the city hall plaza to create one big gathering space.

There is actually already talk of tunnelling through City hall to East Village and upgrading McLeod Trail to more of a scenic boulevard. Upgrading Olympic Plaza as well makes sense.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-s-civic-district-near-city-hall-reimagined-in-new-strategy-1.3220225

Didn't Vancouver hold the medal ceremonies in BC place? That would be the ideal place to hold it is in the main hall "field house".

[Table 5]

Didn't Vancouver hold the medal ceremonies in BC place? That would be the ideal place to hold it is in the main hall "field house".

Yes, if West Village/Calgary Next is part of the Olympic proposal, I assume it would have it's own plaza type gathering space, so that could definitely be a potential location too.

Either way though, Olympic plaza is ripe for an upgrade.

[BigFlameDog]

LOL at the 40+ crowd saying no to hosting the Olympics after they all got to enjoy it in 88.

Seems about right for this site.

Don't paint us all with that giant brush…..I'm sure a lot of us didn't get to enjoy it in 88, I didn't liver here then.

I am for it and the more I think about it the more it makes sense…..Calgary would kick this out of the park.

[Vinny01]

Calgary as a city has grown so fast over the past 15-20 years nearly doubling in size. The infrastructure upgrades that come along with hosting the Olympics would really be useful long term as well

[GullFoss]

the olympics would have huge public support. But have to beat quebec city first...wont be easy

[Strange Brew]

I don't understand this comment. If you really want to experience the Winter Olympics nothing is stopping you from flying to South Korea. You don't actually have to wait around Calgary for it to come to you.

Are you sure flying to South Korea would give you the same experience as hosting the Olympics in your home town?

[getbak]

Unless Quebec City can figure out some way to get a mountain that's tall enough to get approved by the FIS, they're really not a realistic option.

[Flash Walken]

Calgary as a city has grown so fast over the past 15-20 years nearly doubling in size. The infrastructure upgrades that come along with hosting the Olympics would really be useful long term as well

In my opinion though, why isn't this a separate discussion?

Why do infrastructure injections from the provincial and federal governments for expanding urban centres predicated on lavish corporate sponsorship events?

The economic impacts of the Olympics just aren't there. It's creative accounting to believe the Vancouver Olympics were break-even. Unfortunately for the citizens of the city and province, VANOC records are sealed in the city archive until 2025 and not subject to Freedom of Information Act requests (What the hell...?).

The promised increase in visitors didn’t happen. In fact, two years after the Games British Columbia actually lost ground as a tourist destination.


In 2007, B.C. had 4,837,000 international visitors, 26.9 per cent of the Canadian total. The numbers plummeted in 2008 and 2009, not surprising given the global recession and financial crisis. International visitors increased slightly in 2010, fell in 2011 and inched up 1.1 per cent last year.
The number of international visitors in 2012 - 4,220,000 - was 13 per cent below the 2008 total.

And B.C.’s share of the total visitors to Canada was 25.9 per cent - the lowest in at least seven years.

You can rationalize changes in the raw numbers, pointing to external factors.
But B.C.’s tourist visits aren’t just flat-lined. They’re declining. The Games impact has been non-existent.

That’s not surprising. How many British Columbians decided to visit Turin after watching the 2006 Games?

Now, granted, I think 2014 was the largest year for Vancouver tourism in history, but most of that is because of a concerted effort marketing to Chinese tourists.

And here's a great article on why these sorts of rushed, deadline driven infrastructure projects are losers for cities that would otherwise develop neighbourhoods in the span of decades rather than years or months.

Vancouver's athletes Village:

The controversy around the project dates back to a 2007 in-camera meeting at city hall when the then-NPA dominated council voted in favour of a $190 million financial guarantee in a complex three-way agreement involving the city, Millennium and New York-based lender Fortress Investment Group.

At the same meeting, council agreed to a “completion guarantee” on the loan to Fortress, effectively making the city the project’s developer and putting taxpayers on the hook for the tab. Up until that meeting, the agreement with Millennium was that the city would not assume any marketing or financial risk on the project, according to an April 2006 city staff report that recommended Millennium be selected the developer of the Village.

There was some urgency at the time of council’s decision to take on the risk because it needed to get the Village, surrounding parks and community centre built by the opening of the Games in February 2010.

Ballem acknowledged the speed with which the Village was built, comparing the time it took to plan and complete to large projects in China.

“Is that the normal way we do business? No,” she said, adding that the Village would have been built over 20 years anywhere else in the city.

Robertson zeroed in on the controversy tied to the development in a separate news release issued Monday by his Vision Vancouver party. In the release, the mayor said the NPA’s financial guarantee to Fortress was “an irresponsible move that left city taxpayers shouldering the risk for the entire project.”

The release did not mention four Vision councillors also agreed to the guarantee. Reminded of that fact Monday, Robertson said "at that point, the Village had to get built. That's why I'm saying it's a series of decisions that got made and mistakes all along."

Once during the mayor’s press conference and twice during Ballem’s briefing, former NPA council candidate Michael Geller, who is also an architect and developer, attempted to ask questions about the cost of the project. Geller later posted comments on his blog in which he questioned how the 252 units of social and rental housing at the Village factor into the city paying off the debt.

“Many will recall this was supposed to cost $65 million but ended up costing over $110 million,” he wrote. “It’s not worth $110 million. In fact, the city cannot find any non-profit willing to take over the social housing portion at anywhere near the price it paid. This, too, is a loss that will never be recovered.”
http://www.vancourier.com/news/updated-city-of-vancouver-sells-final-stake-in-olympic-village-1.1005787

The whole article is worth reading.

This is incredibly pertinent to the discussion about both the NEXT proposal as well as the Olympics. The city of Vancouver is out hundreds of millions of dollars of potential prime water front real estate that they will never be able to recover. This is an example why it should be outrageous for the Flames to be asking the city of Calgary to be fronting a loan for them.

Another good article:

Looking back, it seems almost a miracle that a little more than $100-million might be all that the city will have lost from this affair. (A thorough vetting of the city’s numbers is sure to take place). Early on, the betting was that number might be $300-million or more.

While a loss that is considerably less than anticipated might seem something to celebrate, that wouldn’t be appropriate. Cheer the fact the city has ended its involvement with the Olympic Village. But it was an expensive lesson.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/olympic-village-proves-to-be-a-costly-lesson-for-vancouver/article18317203/

Now that it's clear from Ken King that the Flames are explicitly asking the city to use their borrowing power to get the Flames a better loan, I am that much more sceptical of Ken King looking a developer in the eye and being told "no Cost overruns".

[You Need a Thneed]

My thoughts:

Bidding for 2022 showed that many countries are hesitating on bidding on the Olympic Games, especially on the winter games. The costs can be crazy high. Calgary could save a whole bunch of money by using existing (at the time) facilities. Not many cities have that same kind of advantage.

It might be almost handed to us if Calgary wants to host. I don't think its a secret that the Calgary and Vancouver games were both quite successful. Canada will get an Olympics again soon, and if it happens to be the winter, there's really only two cities that really work - Calgary and Vancouver. I guess it's our turn.

I think a Calgary games could help bring the costs of hosting the games back to respectability.

[sureLoss]

Nenshi confirms that a 2026 olympic bid is being considered:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-olympics-winter-bid-nenshi-1.3229574

[T@T]

the olympics would have huge public support. But have to beat quebec city first...wont be easy
Doubt there would be 2 canadian bids anyway but I thought I read somewhere that Lake Placid may bid on it as well.

Edit: found this but it could be just a wish and a hope.

http://www.lakeplacid2026.com/

[driveway]

I kinda hate this because I love the Olympics, but I am starting to think that the Olympic movement may have reached the end of its value and relevance. This may be more true for the winter than summer games, but the combination of staggering cost, horrific corruption, crass commercialism and overall professionalization of sport, not to mention the ability of modern communications to allow people to experience the sports they love wherever they're happening is bringing the days of the Olympics-as-King of global events to a slow close.

I suspect we're going to see fewer and fewer democratic societies bidding on the games. Fewer games in Atlantic-friendly timezones, and more professional sports removing themselves from the event.

Soccer already doesn't send their best and hasn't for years, hockey is on the way there, it wouldn't surprise me if Basketball followed suit in two or three Olympiads. The thrill of going to the Olympics is going to become (more) tainted as the sites move more and more often into repressive, developing countries seeking to buy good press and jump-start infrastructure projects.

I may be way off base, but it wouldn't surprise me if people look back in 40-50 years at the Sydney-Tokyo stretch of summer games and the Nagano-Pyongchang stretch of winter games as the high-water-mark of the olympic movement.

[Tinordi]

Spend billions on a two week party. Seems responsible.

[Bigtime]

So just how flexible is the IOC when it comes to utilizing old facilities that would be upgraded? Or are they like FIFA in that they want flashy new huge venues for everything?

LA in '84 (summer I know) made it work because nobody wanted the games, they were able to pretty much dictate the terms to the IOC for them hosting, and had almost everything built with private dollars.

Barcelona is another recent success story, taking an existing plan they had to redevelop parts of their city and then utilizing the Olympics to make that happen. Calgary could be very similar to this example with the infrastructure projects and other developments we are already planning for, so make the Olympics works for us instead of winning a bid and then looking at how to make it work for the city.

I highly recommend reading this book for context:

http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21645114-hosting-olympics-and-world-cup-bad-citys-health-just-say-no

http://www.amazon.com/Circus-Maximus-Economic-Hosting-Olympics/dp/0815726511

[Erick Estrada]

Spend billions on a two week party. Seems responsible.

Was Mark Tinordi eternally miserable? I don't see the connection. How does it feel to walk through life with a dark cloud over your head? It's like your sole purpose here is to troll around leaving your Debbie Downer post & runs scattered throughout the forum. You have the right to be an unhappy person but trust me life is great and you should spend more time being less negative about everything in general.

[SuperMatt18]

Folks, there's a reason why sensible democracies like Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Norway are backing out of Olympic bids.

This is true for 2022 but really that is the only event it has been true for so far. The real thing is that countries on wasting money on the bid process, when the winner is likely determined already.

Germany, France, Spain, Austria, etc have all kept their bid in for a Winter Olympics within the last 10 years.

Same thing with the Summer Olympics.

For 2012 London, Paris, Madrid, and New York all had kept their name in the bidding process.

For 2016 Madrid, and Chicago kept their bid in the hat.

In 2020 Tokyo is the host, but Madrid and Rome were also bidding.

And for 2024 so far the big democracies are still there too, with Los Angeles, Hamburg, Paris and Rome all meeting the deadline for the initial bid.

IMO Toronto dropped out knowing that with those other big hosts were going to have an advantage, and they are better offer saving the bid for 2028.

[GioforPM]

I am interested in your reasoning on this.

The top end talent is the same (or better for some sports like hockey where regular seasons affect things), so that equals out.

But in many events you have countries with entries that wouldn't make in in a WC but can go to the Olympics and can have an impact, through upsets in qualifying rounds. And there are more qualifying rounds so chances of getting bumped are greater. In track, for example, an extra qualifying round = an extra chance to have an off race.

[dash_pinched]

(Reuters) - Los Angeles is in the running to host a third Olympics while Hamburg, Paris, Rome and Budapest will battle to bring the multi-sport extravaganza back to Europe after the five cities were officially unveiled as candidates to host the 2024 Summer Games on Wednesday.

I guess they have lost their senses in Germany :D

[getbak]

So just how flexible is the IOC when it comes to utilizing old facilities that would be upgraded? Or are they like FIFA in that they want flashy new huge venues for everything?
Beijing is re-using facilities that were built for 2008 in 2022.

The Bird's Nest will host the Opening and Closing Ceremonies.
Curling will be in the Water Cube.
Hockey will be held in the arenas where gymnastics & handball and basketball were held in 2008.
Figure skating will be in the same arena where volleyball was held.
The Convention Centre that served as the International Broadcast Centre in 2008 will be used for that purpose again.

[Ducay]

I imagine Toronto will be hoping LA doesn't win and take N.America out of the running for 2028.

[CroFlames]

I think given the amount of winter sports Calgarians engage in, a Winter Olympics bid might make sense. Many of the facilities built for 88 have been used by amateurs and professionals throughout the years.

With another Olympic bid, upgraded structures would continue to be used after the Olympics leave.

My 2 cents.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Another thing that separates Calgary from many other Winter sport eligible locations is Banff. It's one of the most desirable tourist locations in Canada. Photos of the Banff area hit the front page of reddit more than anywhere else in the world. Plenty more tourists would come to an Olympics in Calgary for this reason (and I'm sure this played a factor in the success of the last one as well).

[undercoverbrother]

The top end talent is the same (or better for some sports like hockey where regular seasons affect things), so that equals out.

But in many events you have countries with entries that wouldn't make in in a WC but can go to the Olympics and can have an impact, through upsets in qualifying rounds. And there are more qualifying rounds so chances of getting bumped are greater. In track, for example, an extra qualifying round = an extra chance to have an off race.

Interesting, I guess I look at it the other way. At the WC the margin of error is smaller. Take track, in a race with a diluted field (Olympics) you can afford to have a miss-step. At the WC the field is tighter and therefore the repercussions of a miss-step can be greater. In short at the WC you need to be “on” for every race, at the Olympics you can take an early race “off” or “easy”. Also, in my mind, back to back or three time WC Gold is more impressive than an Olympic gold. The ability to reach and maintain a level of completion across multi years in amazing. At the Olympics you can get someone that peaks at that time, but can’t maintain that level.

[Joborule]

Is it possible to build a new ski jump to current standards at COP, or would it have to be on a different hill out of the city?

[undercoverbrother]

Another thing that separates Calgary from many other Winter sport eligible locations is Banff. It's one of the most desirable tourist locations in Canada The World. Photos of the Banff area hit the front page of reddit more than anywhere else in the world. Plenty more tourists would come to an Olympics in Calgary for this reason (and I'm sure this played a factor in the success of the last one as well).

FYP, we forget that some people save for years and years to come to Banff

[Looch City]

Is it possible to build a new ski jump to current standards at COP, or would it have to be on a different hill out of the city?

They'd just have to demolish the McD's on 16th ave to building the landing haha.

[undercoverbrother]

They'd just have to demolish the McD's on 16th ave to building the landing haha.

It was no good in 88. I remember going to ski jumpin and the guys were getting air off the uphill at the end of the landing zone. One of the jumpers got air, and ended up hitting one of the camera booms.

[GioforPM]

Interesting, I guess I look at it the other way. At the WC the margin of error is smaller. Take track, in a race with a diluted field (Olympics) you can afford to have a miss-step. At the WC the field is tighter and therefore the repercussions of a miss-step can be greater. In short at the WC you need to be “on” for every race, at the Olympics you can take an early race “off” or “easy”. Also, in my mind, back to back or three time WC Gold is more impressive than an Olympic gold. The ability to reach and maintain a level of completion across multi years in amazing. At the Olympics you can get someone that peaks at that time, but can’t maintain that level.

Usain Bolt seems to prize the Olympic golds over his WCs. The fastest man in the world is the Olympic gold winner, not whoever has the current WC.

In the Olympics, the field may be diluted. But it still has all the same top guys as a WC, and since a lot of qualifying rounds are knockout, so a misstep is the same.

Anyway, for whatever reason, the Olympics are seen as more prestigious IMO. Maybe it's just the extra publicity.

[Barnes]

Is it possible to build a new ski jump to current standards at COP, or would it have to be on a different hill out of the city?

I don't think so. It shouldn't have been built there in the first place. The location was to be at Wintergreen IIRC but it was insisted that it be in the city limits even though it faces North with gusty west-east winds.

[Flash Walken]

If the Saddledome, built for the 88 Olympics, is 'too old' to be used as a facility for a contemporary NHL team, why on earth do we think facilities like the Oval aren't going to need huge upgrades as well?

[calf]

If the Saddledome, built for the 88 Olympics, is 'too old' to be used as a facility for a contemporary NHL team, why on earth do we think facilities like the Oval aren't going to need huge upgrades as well?
I think everyone is saying they need upgrades. But upgrades are cheaper than building from scratch.

[Locke]

I think everyone is saying they need upgrades. But upgrades are cheaper than building from scratch.

And via a bid we wouldnt be paying for it all by ourselves.

So what do you do? Let all of those buildings deteriorate, renovate them or replace them?

All of those cost money.

[Flash Walken]

I think everyone is saying they need upgrades. But upgrades are cheaper than building from scratch.

This is not true. Upgrades are often more expensive because of the complexities involved with using an existing structure.

Just look at Vancouver's BC Place. Originally budgeted for a $100 million renovation, the project exploded to a cost of more than 5 times that amount before it was completed.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I think everyone is saying they need upgrades. But upgrades are cheaper than building from scratch.

They are, but I think people are badly underestimating how much in upgrades will be needed. Someone mentioned the Beijing facilities being reused, but those are facilities that will be 15 years old or less when they need to be reused. Calgary's facilities will be nearly 40 years old by the time 2026 rolls around. And at least the Chinese facilities are 21st century based, unlike the mid 80's facilities Calgary used.

So yes it's nice that it won't have to be all new facilities from scratch, but others will need significant upgrades, and there will still need to be new venues. Boston just submitted a bid where they spent very little on new facilities, and the general public still didn't want it. The cost of security cannot be underestimated in the desire to not have these events, it's become extremely costly just for that.

[CliffFletcher]

The cost of security cannot be underestimated in the desire to not have these events, it's become extremely costly just for that.

Security in Vancouver was almost $1 billion. In London it ran $1.6 billion. And that's money the goes 'poof', not investment in infrastructure.

[Enoch Root]

Security in Vancouver was almost $1 billion. In London it ran $1.6 billion. And that's money the goes 'poof', not investment in infrastructure.
And is part of the overall cost that is covered (primarily) from TV revenue

Cherry-picking one cost in the project and saying it goes 'poof' is disingenuous.

If the games make a profit overall, they make a profit - regardless of the security cost.

And the remaining infrastructure still remains, again, regardless of the security cost.

[corporatejay]

This is not true. Upgrades are often more expensive because of the complexities involved with using an existing structure.

Just look at Vancouver's BC Place. Originally budgeted for a $100 million renovation, the project exploded to a cost of more than 5 times that amount before it was completed.



Sure, except BC Place now has a world class $1billion+ stadium for the cool price of $500 million.

[Senator Clay Davis]

BC Place is worth more than $1 billion? CenturyLink in Seattle cost around $600 million and is obviously much better. I really doubt BC Place can be valued any more than $500 million.

[corporatejay]

BC Place is worth more than $1 billion? CenturyLink in Seattle cost around $600 million and is obviously much better. I really doubt BC Place can be valued any more than $500 million.


What? Why is it "obviously much better". Have you been to CenturyLink? or BC Place?

Century link doesn't have a retractable roof and is basically a virtually "open air" even on the concourse.

Look at any retractable roof stadium in north america that was built recently (you can't look at just inflation because construction costs are not inline with the rest), BC place is a top notch facility.

[Senator Clay Davis]

What? Why is it "obviously much better". Have you been to CenturyLink? or BC Place?

Century link doesn't have a retractable roof and is basically a virtually "open air" even on the concourse.
Look at any retractable roof stadium in north america that was built recently (you can't look at just inflation because construction costs are not inline with the rest), BC place is a top notch facility.

I have been to both. CenturyLink has better amenities and a much better atmosphere, though BC Place is a much better location (downtown by the water versus an off downtown rail yard.) The retractable roof is a nice feature, but I'm not sure BC Place as a whole can be called a $1 billion stadium. And if it is they didn't get great value relative to other stadiums.

[craigwd]

Interesting, I guess I look at it the other way. At the WC the margin of error is smaller. Take track, in a race with a diluted field (Olympics) you can afford to have a miss-step. At the WC the field is tighter and therefore the repercussions of a miss-step can be greater. In short at the WC you need to be “on” for every race, at the Olympics you can take an early race “off” or “easy”. Also, in my mind, back to back or three time WC Gold is more impressive than an Olympic gold. The ability to reach and maintain a level of completion across multi years in amazing. At the Olympics you can get someone that peaks at that time, but can’t maintain that level.

I think you may be mistaking World Cup fields with World Championships.

The so called "lessor" countries also participate in most World Championships. I'm thinking athletics, bobsleigh/skeleton, figure skating, alpine and nordic skiing, and swimming as examples.

For each sport there is a certain qualifying line that an athlete has to make to participate.
And likewise, be it an Olympic year or a non-Olympic year, the nations are given spots based on finishes in the previous major event.

As for extra rounds, these also occur at Worlds.

But lets take the 100m event in athletics, or the old preliminary rounds in Figure skating for example. The first round of competition is kind of a play in round - those athletes that have accumulated a certain level of points or achieved a standard don't even take part in them. So there isn't a case of being knocked out early or having to take it easy.

As for which is prized more, let's look at Martins Dukurs - the world's best skeleton racer, 3 time world champion, but keeps getting burned at the Olympics with 2 close silvers and mentions how frustrated his is about that.

For Canadians, take Kurt Browning and Patrick Chan: 4 time and 3 time world champion. Browning infamously had some struggles during the Olympics (injury and errors) and Chan lost his best chance at gold in Sochi. Both are obviously very happy to be world champions but extremely disappointed in not being able to up their game for the Olympics.

[getbak]

One thing that makes an Olympic medal harder to win is that you only get a chance to do it every four years. Depending on the sport and the athlete, that may only be a once in a lifetime shot.


Look at Phaneuf...Canada decided to go with a veteran-heavy team in 2006, so Phaneuf and Crosby didn't make the team even though they arguably could have. Then, by 2010, his game had dropped off enough that he didn't make the team; and in 2014, he wasn't even in the discussion. If he was two years older, or two years younger, so that his 2008 season was an Olympic year, he would have easily made the team.

[sleepingmoose]

In my dream costs-be-damned scenario, Macleod Trail in front of city hall is dropped below grade, and we connect Olympic Plaza/Stephen Ave with the city hall plaza to create one big gathering space.

There is actually already talk of tunnelling through City hall to East Village and upgrading McLeod Trail to more of a scenic boulevard. Upgrading Olympic Plaza as well makes sense.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-s-civic-district-near-city-hall-reimagined-in-new-strategy-1.3220225
I don't think you can drop Macleod Trail below grade at City Hall - there's already a partially built LRT tunnel there.

[Roughneck]

As for which is prized more, let's look at Martins Dukurs - the world's best skeleton racer, 3 time world champion, but keeps getting burned at the Olympics with 2 close silvers and mentions how frustrated his is about that.

For Canadians, take Kurt Browning and Patrick Chan: 4 time and 3 time world champion. Browning infamously had some struggles during the Olympics (injury and errors) and Chan lost his best chance at gold in Sochi. Both are obviously very happy to be world champions but extremely disappointed in not being able to up their game for the Olympics.

For a Canadian example look no further than the greatest speed skater in history. It isn't Doan, Klassen, or Boucher. But all Jeremy Wotherspoon is known as in these borders is a guy who could never live up to the hype at the Olympics, winning only a silver. A World Champion 8 times, still the 500m record holder, more 'tour' victories than anybody else, but you just know not having that Olympic gold just eats away at him. How could it not?

[CroFlames]

What? Why is it "obviously much better". Have you been to CenturyLink? or BC Place?

Century link doesn't have a retractable roof and is basically a virtually "open air" even on the concourse.

Look at any retractable roof stadium in north america that was built recently (you can't look at just inflation because construction costs are not inline with the rest), BC place is a top notch facility.

Yikes man. BC Place isn't even in the same conversation as the University of Phoenix stadium.

I say BC Place is "adequate" but a looooong ways off from being top notch in any sense. It's got a top notch video board I guess.

[Flash Walken]

Sure, except BC Place now has a world class $1billion+ stadium for the cool price of $500 million.

How does this in any way address cost overruns 5x that of the initially stated budget?

Does Calgary need a Billion Dollar Olympic Oval?

[CroFlames]

Just saw this pop up on the CBC.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/world-cup-for-canada-soccer-association-believes-in-2026-bid-1.3230012

Canada perhaps looking for a WC bid in 2026.

You can't exactly host a WC match in an amateur fieldhouse.

[polak]

Just saw this pop up on the CBC.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/world-cup-for-canada-soccer-association-believes-in-2026-bid-1.3230012

Canada perhaps looking for a WC bid in 2026.

You can't exactly host a WC match in an amateur fieldhouse.

Pretty sure they announced they will be bidding last year?

[Locke]

Just saw this pop up on the CBC.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/world-cup-for-canada-soccer-association-believes-in-2026-bid-1.3230012

Canada perhaps looking for a WC bid in 2026.

You can't exactly host a WC match in an amateur fieldhouse.

Well I cant see us having the Olympics and the World Cup, thats just greedy.

[Coach]

Well I cant see us having the Olympics and the World Cup, thats just greedy.

Russia is getting them in pretty close proximity. 2014 Olympics, 2018 World Cup.

[calf]

Well I cant see us having the Olympics and the World Cup, thats just greedy.

Brazil says hi.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I wouldn't be citing Brazil or Russia as examples of getting the Olympics and WC in close proximity. They did get them close together, but they also blew more than $100 billion combined to get them.

[GioforPM]

Just saw this pop up on the CBC.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/world-cup-for-canada-soccer-association-believes-in-2026-bid-1.3230012

Canada perhaps looking for a WC bid in 2026.

You can't exactly host a WC match in an amateur fieldhouse.

You can't host it in any football stadium in Canada. The WC requires real grass (for men anyway).

[craigwd]

For a Canadian example look no further than the greatest speed skater in history. It isn't Doan, Klassen, or Boucher. But all Jeremy Wotherspoon is known as in these borders is a guy who could never live up to the hype at the Olympics, winning only a silver. A World Champion 8 times, still the 500m record holder, more 'tour' victories than anybody else, but you just know not having that Olympic gold just eats away at him. How could it not?

Oh, excellent example!
I don't think 34.03s will be broken for a long time. It's already been something like 7 years.

[CroFlames]

You can't host it in any football stadium in Canada. The WC requires real grass (for men anyway).

Just throw in $500 million to put temporary grass into the 8 host stadiums for the WC.

What's $500 million among friends right?

[Barnes]

How does this in any way address cost overruns 5x that of the initially stated budget?

Does Calgary need a Billion Dollar Olympic Oval?

How does BC Place renovation provide any insight on what would be required to renovate a speed skating oval and what those costs might be?

[GioforPM]

How does BC Place renovation provide any insight on what would be required to renovate a speed skating oval and what those cost might be?

I suspect the Oval's ice doesn't need much reno work - I think it's been upgraded several times. The fan seating etc. would. You're right, apples and oranges.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Just throw in $500 million to put temporary grass into the 8 host stadiums for the WC.

What's $500 million among friends right?

Yeah that'll never even be close to good enough. America has 30+ ready made, much better facilities than Canada. Expecting to throw grass on McMahon, Commonwealth, SkyDome, BC Place, Olympic Stadium, Winnipeg (and even then, that's really weak as most hosts have 10-12 venues) and it being good enough is very hopeful, and highly unlikely. Probably looking at 4-6 brand new venues from scratch.

I'd think $3 billion is the very, very low end of cost to host a WC, security costs excluded. Joint bid with the US still makes the most sense for a cost control perspective...but the US can host it solo, so they don't need us.

[GioforPM]

Canada should work on qualifying for a WC, not hosting one.

[Flash Walken]

How does BC Place renovation provide any insight on what would be required to renovate a speed skating oval and what those cost might be?

Because it's the idea that Calgary somehow benefits in an Olympic bid because they already have the 40 year old facilities.

There is a benefit perhaps to already having the land rights for specific sites, but all of Calgary's 1988 olympic infrastructure will have to be updated and that will all be costly.

Ballooning constructions costs are essentially a hallmark of Olympic construction, and pretty much any deadline dependent development.

How much will it cost to turn this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Olympic_Oval_Inside_Calgary.jpg

into This:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2692/4328453690_15b94a041b.jpg

This notion that Calgary has a leg up on their competition because they hosted the games in 1988 is wishful thinking at this point. You're talking new ski jumps, new bobsled track, new stadium for hockey, potential new stadium for ceremonies, etc etc. Is Max Bell going to be good enough for Curling and speed skating again, or does that facility also require substantial upgrades to accommodate fan seating etc?

Having the mountains so close by is definitely a feather in the cap for a Calgary bid, but everything else will have to either undergo a costly renovation or be built completely from scratch.

Is McMahon going to host the opening and closing ceremonies again, or will that be in the Field House?

[polak]

Canada should work on qualifying for a WC, not hosting one.

Hosting one is pretty much their only shot of qualifying for one.

[CroFlames]

Yeah that'll never even be close to good enough. America has 30+ ready made, much better facilities than Canada. Expecting to throw grass on McMahon, Commonwealth, SkyDome, BC Place, Olympic Stadium, Winnipeg (and even then, that's really weak as most hosts have 10-12 venues) and it being good enough is very hopeful, and highly unlikely. Probably looking at 4-6 brand new venues from scratch.

I'd think $3 billion is the very, very low end of cost to host a WC, security costs excluded. Joint bid with the US still makes the most sense for a cost control perspective...but the US can host it solo, so they don't need us.

I was merely quoting a price to put grass in the existing stadiums. Of course an actually bid will be in the billions, plus the cost of adding grass to existing venues.


Because it's the idea that Calgary somehow benefits in an Olympic bid because they already have the 40 year old facilities.

There is a benefit perhaps to already having the land rights for specific sites, but all of Calgary's 1988 olympic infrastructure will have to be updated and that will all be costly.

Ballooning constructions costs are essentially a hallmark of Olympic construction, and pretty much any deadline dependent development.

How much will it cost to turn this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Olympic_Oval_Inside_Calgary.jpg

into This:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2692/4328453690_15b94a041b.jpg

This notion that Calgary has a leg up on their competition because they hosted the games in 1988 is wishful thinking at this point. You're talking new ski jumps, new bobsled track, new stadium for hockey, potential new stadium for ceremonies, etc etc. Is Max Bell going to be good enough for Curling and speed skating again, or does that facility also require substantial upgrades to accommodate fan seating etc?

Having the mountains so close by is definitely a feather in the cap for a Calgary bid, but everything else will have to either undergo a costly renovation or be built completely from scratch.

Is McMahon going to host the opening and closing ceremonies again, or will that be in the Field House?

I don't think Calgary has an advantage per se, but I think the redeeming quality or silver lining is that the venues Calgary does build for a future Olympics would get well used long after the Olympics are gone. I remember playing men's league with games starting at 11:45PM! Not enough hockey rinks for starters.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

We should start a poll something along the lines of:

Is anyone under the age of 40 opposed to a 2026 Olympics in Calgary?

Pretty sure I already know what the results would be.

[polak]

It's depressing that if we do get this, I'll be way too old to enjoy it like I would if it happened today.

Life's a bitch and then you die.

[Locke]

Canada should work on qualifying for a WC, not hosting one.

Hosting it is typically how that happens.

[Senator Clay Davis]

But can Canada try and import a bunch of players like Qatar? It's gotta be more appealing to live in Canada, if not as financially beneficial.

[SuperMatt18]

It's depressing that if we do get this, I'll be way too old to enjoy it like I would if it happened today.

Life's a bitch and then you die.

Especially because we are an age that missed some good ones.

Salt Lake, Tofino, and Vancouver were great ones but I was too young to really enjoy the first two, and Vancouver was in the middle of my final University semester.

Now we have a run of Sochi, Bejing, and Pyeongchang, which while they are still fun events, are not at the level of a event hosted on European or North American soil for a male in his mid-twenties.

[corporatejay]

How does this in any way address cost overruns 5x that of the initially stated budget?

Does Calgary need a Billion Dollar Olympic Oval?



What? Your comment was that upgrades are usually more expensive than building from scratch and you used BC place as an example.

My point was that even for $500 million dollars that's way way cheaper than building a brand new building.

[Barnes]

It's depressing that if we do get this, I'll be way too old to enjoy it like I would if it happened today.

Life's a bitch and then you die.

Don't be so negative. I'll be 46 and plan to get turnt up if it happens. Olympics aren't cheap, being older will have its benefits.

[Coach]

This notion that Calgary has a leg up on their competition because they hosted the games in 1988 is wishful thinking at this point. You're talking new ski jumps, new bobsled track, new stadium for hockey, potential new stadium for ceremonies, etc etc. Is Max Bell going to be good enough for Curling and speed skating again, or does that facility also require substantial upgrades to accommodate fan seating etc?

Having the mountains so close by is definitely a feather in the cap for a Calgary bid, but everything else will have to either undergo a costly renovation or be built completely from scratch.

Is McMahon going to host the opening and closing ceremonies again, or will that be in the Field House?

Is it just me, or do those ovals not look much different from each other? Of course ours would need a significant aesthetic upgrade, but the facility is largely operational and usable already.

I think the advantage Calgary has in't necessarily the cost (although I think it's just logical that upgrading existing facilities would be less expensive than building new ones), it's that we are one of the few spots that actually use those facilities after the events. All of that stuff is still being used to train Canadian athletes, and still will be used long after the Olympics are gone. I think this is something unique to Calgary.

It would probably make the fieldhouse to need a retractable roof for the opening ceremonies, which obviously adds cost to that project. You could likely use Winsport for the curling/short track speed skating. I think it seats more than Max Bell and is almost brand new.

[RM14]

Curling in the corral would be pretty cool, if they give it a bit of a face lift. Keep the pictures of the king and queen though.

[getbak]

It would probably make the fieldhouse to need a retractable roof for the opening ceremonies
Both Vancouver and Sochi had their ceremonies under a roof.

[Flash Walken]

What? Your comment was that upgrades are usually more expensive than building from scratch and you used BC place as an example.

My point was that even for $500 million dollars that's way way cheaper than building a brand new building.
My comment was based on this idea that it would somehow be cheaper for Calgary to host the olympics than it would be for a competitor because things like the Oval already exist in Calgary.

My point about upgrades often being more expensive than new construction is based on personal experience. This holds true in my experience when dealing with residential/commercial construction.

It CAN be cheaper to renovate than to build from scratch but this isn't some rule of renovation. It's very easy for renovations to eclipse the cost of a new build, especially when budgets are determined based on deadline rather than on being cost effective.

It's in the links I already posted, coming from the City Manager in Vancouver and from the Province. The necessity of having the majority of renovations completed prior to the Olympics is the primary reason for the inflated cost.

Renovating the Oval or Max Bell or wherever else on an Olympic timeline will invariable increase the construction costs because of the deadline to have them finished. The pressure from these deadlines will force the hand of politicians at the municipal and provincial level to authorize funds they otherwise wouldn't to avoid an negative political impact.

I'm not blaming the olympics for BCs bad economy, but since Vancouver won their bid for the 2010 Olympics in 2003, the provincial debt level has very nearly doubled to over 60 Billion dollars. A massive component of this debt level is a result of the infrastructure projects implemented as part of the vision towards 2010. A light rail line to the airport was and is awesome, a big boon for the city. However, because that investment was predicated on the Olympics, it was an infrastructure project that didn't address Vancouver's greatest need, light rail along North America's busiest transit Corridor (Commercial Drive to UBC along Broadway). As a direct result of the line out to the airport, a planned transit line that would connect more of the Greater Vancouver Regional District was delayed by a decade.

Because of the schedule to open the new light rail infrastructure, the project couldn't be done exclusively by underground tunneling but instead involved surface excavation and construction which had a very negative effect a large segment of the city (Cambie corridor).

I'm not trying to make this Vancouver-centric, but when any city engages in these kind of activities, they develop infrastructure that isn't necessarily based on need. This CalgaryNEXT proposal / Olympic bid parallels this.

The city of Vancouver would have developed the Olympic Village neighbourhood over a period of decades instead of a few years were it not for the Olympics and Calgary is looking at the same scenario with the West Village. According to their own internal discussions posted in these threads, they don't want to do anything with the West Village until the East Village is more established, which makes complete sense. In Vancouver, developing the Olympic village too quickly and taking on the loan for completion cost the city hundreds of millions of dollars.

The infrastructure that the Olympics brought to Vancouver is nice. The skyline is prettier now than it was, I love using the Canada Line, The Sea to Sky Highway is a bit less dangerous the one time a year I use it. But let's not be delusional about what it costs to do it.

It costs a ####load of money.

[DionTheDman]

Now we have a run of Sochi, Bejing, and Pyeongchang, which while they are still fun events, are not at the level of a event hosted on European or North American soil for a male in his mid-twenties.

Why not?

[saskflames69]

Especially because we are an age that missed some good ones.

Salt Lake, Tofino, and Vancouver were great ones but I was too young to really enjoy the first two, and Vancouver was in the middle of my final University semester.

Now we have a run of Sochi, Bejing, and Pyeongchang, which while they are still fun events, are not at the level of a event hosted on European or North American soil for a male in his mid-twenties.
I might miss out on attending the Olympics in my mid-twenties, but if they go through with this bid I'll still be 29 for a few months :D

and if I'm really lucky, I'll still get to go to another Calgary Olympics in 2064.

[SHOGUN]

It's depressing that if we do get this, I'll be way too old to enjoy it like I would if it happened today.

Life's a bitch and then you die.

And then we get .....

[polak]

Don't be so negative. I'll be 46 and plan to get turnt up if it happens. Olympics aren't cheap, being older will have its benefits.

I'll be getting completely white girl'd and partying like it's 2010... :bag:

[RM14]

And then we get .....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/1328101942_Arrow-Up.png

[East Coast Flame]

Being at the 2010 Olympics as a 24 year old was incredible. One of the best times of my life. I slept on a yoga mat in my buddy's girlfriends basement apartment with 10 other people and it was awesome.

So many amazing memories:

- I remember being packed shoulder to shoulder in some dump bar off Granville and the whole place losing their minds over a curling match.

- I remember having a conversation at a bar with two Slovaks wearing Demitra jerseys who made the trip over. They had an extra ticket to the Russia - Slovakia game that night and I joined them. Sitting in the Slovak section hissing the Russians. Slovakia ended up winning after Demitra scored in a shootout and they went absolutely insane. The guys were in tears. Amazing moment.

- Sitting behind Bob Mckenzie and the crew for the Canada vs. Germany game when Shea Weber blasted one through the net and no one really knew what happened. Everything was kind of quiet and the play went on when Mckenzie actually stood and shouted it was in! Our whole section started going nuts and yelling at the refs to go check.

Yeah....the Olympics were awesome

[GioforPM]

Here's my luck: I have lived in and around Calgary all my long life except for 1987-1990. I missed being in town for the Olympics and the Cup. And I had to live north of Edmonton.

[polak]

Being at the 2010 Olympics as a 24 year old was incredible. One of the best times of my life. I slept on a yoga mat in my buddy's girlfriends basement apartment with 10 other people and it was awesome.

So many amazing memories:

- I remember being packed shoulder to shoulder in some dump bar off Granville and the whole place losing their minds over a curling match.

- I remember having a conversation at a bar with two Slovaks wearing Demitra jerseys who made the trip over. They had an extra ticket to the Russia - Slovakia game that night and I joined them. Sitting in the Slovak section hissing the Russians. Slovakia ended up winning after Demitra scored in a shootout and they went absolutely insane. The guys were in tears. Amazing moment.

- Sitting behind Bob Mckenzie and the crew for the Canada vs. Germany game when Shea Weber blasted one through the net and no one really knew what happened. Everything was kind of quiet and the play went on when Mckenzie actually stood and shouted it was in! Our whole section started going nuts and yelling at the refs to go check.

Yeah....the Olympics were awesome

I hate you.

[Roughneck]

Don't be so negative. I'll be 46 and plan to get turnt up if it happens. Olympics aren't cheap, being older will have its benefits.

An the girls will stay the same age, aw-right aw-right aw-right.

[morgin]

- I remember having a conversation at a bar with two Slovaks wearing Demitra jerseys who made the trip over. They had an extra ticket to the Russia - Slovakia game that night and I joined them. Sitting in the Slovak section hissing the Russians. Slovakia ended up winning after Demitra scored in a shootout and they went absolutely insane. The guys were in tears. Amazing moment

Demitra had an amazing Olympics. I was at the Slovakia/Latvia game and had the same experience of sitting near some Slovak fans who were just beside themselves at the tournament that Demitra was having. It was a really fun game to be at, and more fun for just how much these fans who had travelled so far loved that the Canadians near them knew who he was and cheered for him too.

[Zach]

I hope Calgary gets it. The 2010 olympics were amazing. Casually running into Ovechkin at the Roots store on Robson and getting his picture and autograph was awesome. Going to all the different parties and buildings with people from all over the world. The bars were PACKED and I remember I had a swedish shirt on and was even interviewed by this swedish tv station (always tried to find the footage) and had these swedish girls join us at our table which ended up being a very fun night.

[longsuffering]

I hope Calgary gets it. The 2010 olympics were amazing. Casually running into Ovechkin at the Roots store on Robson and getting his picture and autograph was awesome. Going to all the different parties and buildings with people from all over the world. The bars were PACKED and I remember I had a swedish shirt on and was even interviewed by this swedish tv station (always tried to find the footage) and had these swedish girls join us at our table which ended up being a very fun night.

How fun?

lQlIhraqL7o

[powderjunkie]

I would think new ski jumps might make the most sense at the Nordic Centre...probably aerial too. This makes sense especially considering the 'combined' event that is half ski jumping and half nordic. CNC also has other training facilities that would make sense in the long run.

I'm not sure they would actually need a brand new sliding track. Calgary hosted the World Championships as recently as 2006, and is still a mainstay on the World Cup calendar (it's missed a few seasons here and there, but not in the last few years). It would likely need a facelift, but I don't think a course needs to be as dangerous as Whistler to meet IOC standards.

Not sure if the town of Canmore would be interested, but it could be very cool to build a new sliding track from the Nordic Centre down to town, and perhaps a gondola/chairlift back up to the CNC. Definitely a luxury item more than a need though.

I'm not sure if Nakiska would still meet necessary standards for the downhill, and even if it did who knows how reliable their snow will be in 10 years. I would think the alpine events would need to stay at Louise (although COP could potentially even host slalom now)...

I wonder where they would want to do slopestyle, superpipe and skicross? COP courses would be short and lame, but perhaps more spectator friendly. Louise would be the best unless there are concerns with more events in the National Park, in which case Nakiska would make sense (yet then it is yet another venue to secure).

[Alberta_Beef]

Calgary definitely needs a new bobsled track, the current one is like a kiddie slide to these guys

[mac_82]

I wonder where they would want to do slopestyle, superpipe and skicross? COP courses would be short and lame, but perhaps more spectator friendly. Louise would be the best unless there are concerns with more events in the National Park, in which case Nakiska would make sense (yet then it is yet another venue to secure).

Nakiska has hosted the ski cross world cup since 2012, I'm sure they could accommodate ski cross and boarder cross for an Olympic event.

[craigwd]

I disagree with Powderjunkie. Absolutely the sliding track would have to be completely torn down and rebuilt. It doesn't have to be "more dangerous" but it does need to be faster and more technical. Right now it's known as pretty much the easiest track on the circuit by the IBSF.

You mention that Worlds were held here in 2006, yet in the interim I think nearly all of the major tracks have had upgrades and in some cases, significant redesigns to bring them up to par.

Wins port just upgraded the mogul hill at COP to make it a better World Cup stop. We haven't held an aerials event in about 4 or 5 years but I suspect they would do the same to that part of the hill and put the facility right next to the moguls hill.

Rather than a new Ski Jump location I suspect wind screens would be added to the existing part of the hill. There were plans for that a few years ago.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Two major groups in Calgary have been working on this for months. Toronto bowing out opens the door for it, but unless one leading group can emerge, I don't like our odds.

What ticks me off is that when I was sending in questions to the Fan when King was doing his open Q&A upon the NEXT announcement, I was asking just this. "Could NEXT possibly connected with an olympic bid?". Ignored categorically.

[Flash Walken]

Two major groups in Calgary have been working on this for months. Toronto bowing out opens the door for it, but unless one leading group can emerge, I don't like our odds.

What ticks me off is that when I was sending in questions to the Fan when King was doing his open Q&A upon the NEXT announcement, I was asking just this. "Could NEXT possibly connected with an olympic bid?". Ignored categorically.
Obviously you knew some kind of international sporting event would have to be included to compensate for the massive funding gap King announced when first presenting the project.

[powderjunkie]

Nakiska has hosted the ski cross world cup since 2012, I'm sure they could accommodate ski cross and boarder cross for an Olympic event.

There is no shortage of hills that could host any of the fixed binding sliding on snow events (anything on skis/boards that is not nordic or ski jumping), it's just a question of what makes the most sense (and I would think hosting more events at fewer venues would make more sense overall from a cost and logistics standpoint).

[powderjunkie]

I disagree with Powderjunkie. Absolutely the sliding track would have to be completely torn down and rebuilt. It doesn't have to be "more dangerous" but it does need to be faster and more technical. Right now it's known as pretty much the easiest track on the circuit by the IBSF.

You mention that Worlds were held here in 2006, yet in the interim I think nearly all of the major tracks have had upgrades and in some cases, significant redesigns to bring them up to par.

Wins port just upgraded the mogul hill at COP to make it a better World Cup stop. We haven't held an aerials event in about 4 or 5 years but I suspect they would do the same to that part of the hill and put the facility right next to the moguls hill.

Rather than a new Ski Jump location I suspect wind screens would be added to the existing part of the hill. There were plans for that a few years ago.

Good to know - it sounds like a track upgrade is required regardless of Olympics then. I imagine this would be one of the cheapest projects anyways. Is Calgary still the main training hub for sliding, or has it moved out to Whistler? I would think that having an 'easy' track wouldn't be a bad thing for getting new participants into the sport, and I wonder how profitable the blue bullet thing is for COP? In which case a brand new more advanced course might make just as much sense.

I'd never heard of the wind screens - that is a cool idea. Are the existing jumps and runouts suitable for this day and age though?

[cam_wmh]

I disagree with Powderjunkie. Absolutely the sliding track would have to be completely torn down and rebuilt. It doesn't have to be "more dangerous" but it does need to be faster and more technical. Right now it's known as pretty much the easiest track on the circuit by the IBSF.

You mention that Worlds were held here in 2006, yet in the interim I think nearly all of the major tracks have had upgrades and in some cases, significant redesigns to bring them up to par.

Wins port just upgraded the mogul hill at COP to make it a better World Cup stop. We haven't held an aerials event in about 4 or 5 years but I suspect they would do the same to that part of the hill and put the facility right next to the moguls hill.

Rather than a new Ski Jump location I suspect wind screens would be added to the existing part of the hill. There were plans for that a few years ago.

Speaking of COP adding infrastructure, did they ever sort out the foundation to the last terminal tower on the new quad?

Good to know - it sounds like a track upgrade is required regardless of Olympics then. I imagine this would be one of the cheapest projects anyways. Is Calgary still the main training hub for sliding, or has it moved out to Whistler? I would think that having an 'easy' track wouldn't be a bad thing for getting new participants into the sport, and I wonder how profitable the blue bullet thing is for COP? In which case a brand new more advanced course might make just as much sense.

I'd never heard of the wind screens - that is a cool idea. Are the existing jumps and runouts suitable for this day and age though?

Almost everything skiing/snowboarding is based out of Whistler. It certainly is for snowboarding.

[Roughneck]

I'd rather see them build a new track and keep the old one. Call them the Leuders Track and the Humphries Track so that one can remain an invaluable training course and the other can maintain high level competition along with Whistler. Hell, you could even have one of the runs on the old track just to shake things up a bit and create a potential for more movement in the standings. Would be kind of a cool feature.

Ski jumps should be built in Cape just to maximize th event and future training potential of the CNC. They need to be built anyway and it would really open up the potential of COP. Moguls and aerials could both be worked to use the ski jumps auditorium which would be a pretty cool site: Old Olympics meet new as the mogul course stands in the shadow of obsolete ski jumps.

Superpipe can also easily be done at COP but a good Slopestyle course probably can't be worked in, which is a shame. The ski/SBX courses and Slopestyle courses at Nakiska would be good if only to limit travel through the parks and make it a little easier logistically. Alpine at Louise and using the slalom course at COP for the snowboard slalom events would probably work.

Hockey at the new arena as well as Winsport. Curling at the Corral, short track and figure skating at the Dome. Oval is the Oval, ready to take back all the records.

Missing anything?

[craigwd]

Good to know - it sounds like a track upgrade is required regardless of Olympics then. I imagine this would be one of the cheapest projects anyways. Is Calgary still the main training hub for sliding, or has it moved out to Whistler? I would think that having an 'easy' track wouldn't be a bad thing for getting new participants into the sport, and I wonder how profitable the blue bullet thing is for COP? In which case a brand new more advanced course might make just as much sense.

I'd never heard of the wind screens - that is a cool idea. Are the existing jumps and runouts suitable for this day and age though?

Yeah, I think a track upgrade should be done but there really hasn't been a push for it.
Both Canadian tracks are used a lot for training, because obviously it's better to learn how to drive and slide on multiple tracks. But yes, you're right, Calgary is the main training hub due to the additional training facilities here, the Ice House for year round push training and since BCS and Luge Canada are located here. That's why most of the athletes live here.

Unfortunately both the large and small hill ski jumps are currently obsolete for Olympic competition right now; though they have been renovated a little so the national team can train. In fact, Nationals are being held there this Saturday morning.



Hockey at the new arena as well as Winsport. Curling at the Corral, short track and figure skating at the Dome. Oval is the Oval, ready to take back all the records.



The Olympic Oval already holds almost half of the speed skating records, the Utah Olympic Oval holds the rest. It's not really a case of building a better facility but how high above sea level both cities are. We kind of trade them back and forth depending on the conditions during competitions. :) Always hope for cold days during speed skating.

[T@T]

Unfortunately both the large and small hill ski jumps are currently obsolete for Olympic competition right now; though they have been renovated a little so the national team can train. In fact, Nationals are being held there this Saturday morning.




Since I have no clue on ski jumping can you explain why they would be obsolete? have the sizes changed..etc?

[UKflames]

Since I have no clue on ski jumping can you explain why they would be obsolete? have the sizes changed..etc?

No the Ski jumpers have just got better, if they used the current big hill they would land out on the highway. The change from flying with parallel skis to a V shape meant that they could fly further as it creates a plane effect and keeps them in the air longer.

[Roughneck]

And that added distance in the air means that the winds are that much more of a problem so it isn't just a matter of fixing the slope either (which would still be terribly expensive).

[browna]

Looks like Aubut, who was fuly behind a Quebec bid for 2026, and would use his power as President of the COC to push that agenda, looks to be in some legal trouble with harassment allegations.

If nothing else, may slow the momentum down for that bid, though there is some time yet until the bid process.

[taffeyb]

He just resigned today due to the on-going sexual harassment allegations. That certainly helps with Calgary's potential bid. We'll have to see who steps in...that may give a clearer indication of Calgary's chances.

[Tyler]

Ladies and gentlemen, the new President of the COC.. Ken King!

[vanisleflamesfan]

I absolutely love how Calgarians and Albertans who normally gulp the simplistic economic pablum of 'balanced budgets" and "responsible spending" down their throats, forced there by moronic neo-conservative governments, are always so ready to embrace the Olympics. I'm not sure if any of you Harper supporters have ever heard of Oxford University (because it is a place where smart people go to get smarter) but they did a study regarding the Olympics and they concluded this:

"The Games overrun with 100 percent consistency. Other project types are typically on budget from time to time, but the Olympics consistently finish with an average cost overrun in real terms of 179 percent. The data thus show that for a city and nation to decide to host the Olympic Games is to take on one of the most financially risky types of mega-project that exists".

But hey, keep on HARP(ER)ING about the importance of balanced budgets and responsible fiscal planning while also pining for the Olympics.

[Jay Random]

I absolutely love how Calgarians and Albertans who normally gulp the simplistic economic pablum of 'balanced budgets" and "responsible spending" down their throats, forced there by moronic neo-conservative governments, are always so ready to embrace the Olympics.

If that's how you want to play, backatcha:

And I absolutely love how Left Coast loons who are completely economically illiterate, and think money grows on trees and governments can spend to infinity without any ill effects, and think that anybody who balances a budget is either ‘neo-conservative’ or ‘moronic’, are always so ready to assume that they know everything about the motives of people they refuse to listen to and have never attempted to understand.

I'm not sure if any of you Harper supporters have ever heard of Oxford University (because it is a place where smart people go to get smarter)

Golly gee, I guess it's one-a them thar yoony-arsy-varsity thangs I keep hearing about. You know, something like the one where Harper himself got a degree in economics, a subject that, unlike you, he actually understands: which may be why you have such an irrational hatred of him that you have to spew it on a hockey forum.

Now I suggest that you piss off until you can figure out how to make a post without insulting half the people on the board.

[PepsiFree]

I'm not sure if any of you Harper supporters have ever heard of Oxford University (because it is a place where smart people go to get smarter).


I can tell you've never been :)

[FireGilbert]

Haha I was going to direct the above posters to the election thread but noticed it had been going off track too. I'll just edit this zinger from John Doe:

Nm

Wrong thread.

I was going to post something about the Olympics.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148403&page=146 (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=148403)

[Erick Estrada]

I absolutely love how Calgarians and Albertans who normally gulp the simplistic economic pablum of 'balanced budgets" and "responsible spending" down their throats, forced there by moronic neo-conservative governments, are always so ready to embrace the Olympics. I'm not sure if any of you Harper supporters have ever heard of Oxford University (because it is a place where smart people go to get smarter) but they did a study regarding the Olympics and they concluded this:

"The Games overrun with 100 percent consistency. Other project types are typically on budget from time to time, but the Olympics consistently finish with an average cost overrun in real terms of 179 percent. The data thus show that for a city and nation to decide to host the Olympic Games is to take on one of the most financially risky types of mega-project that exists".

But hey, keep on HARP(ER)ING about the importance of balanced budgets and responsible fiscal planning while also pining for the Olympics.

Would of, could of, should of.......

[ComixZone]

I absolutely love how Calgarians and Albertans who normally gulp the simplistic economic pablum of 'balanced budgets" and "responsible spending" down their throats, forced there by moronic neo-conservative governments, are always so ready to embrace the Olympics. I'm not sure if any of you Harper supporters have ever heard of Oxford University (because it is a place where smart people go to get smarter) but they did a study regarding the Olympics and they concluded this:

"The Games overrun with 100 percent consistency. Other project types are typically on budget from time to time, but the Olympics consistently finish with an average cost overrun in real terms of 179 percent. The data thus show that for a city and nation to decide to host the Olympic Games is to take on one of the most financially risky types of mega-project that exists".

But hey, keep on HARP(ER)ING about the importance of balanced budgets and responsible fiscal planning while also pining for the Olympics.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/hmwrk.gif

[mikephoen]

I absolutely love how Calgarians and Albertans who normally gulp the simplistic economic pablum of 'balanced budgets" and "responsible spending" down their throats, forced there by moronic neo-conservative governments, are always so ready to embrace the Olympics. I'm not sure if any of you Harper supporters have ever heard of Oxford University (because it is a place where smart people go to get smarter) but they did a study regarding the Olympics and they concluded this:

"The Games overrun with 100 percent consistency. Other project types are typically on budget from time to time, but the Olympics consistently finish with an average cost overrun in real terms of 179 percent. The data thus show that for a city and nation to decide to host the Olympic Games is to take on one of the most financially risky types of mega-project that exists".

But hey, keep on HARP(ER)ING about the importance of balanced budgets and responsible fiscal planning while also pining for the Olympics.

Don't you have a forest to clear cut or mountain to strip mine?

[TheAlpineOracle]

Don't you have a forest to clear cut or mountain to strip mine?

Or a harbour to dump raw sewage into.

[cam_wmh]

Would have, could have, should have.......

fyp.

[Erick Estrada]

fyp.

I didn't want to be correct as I'm an illiterate moron from Alberta.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

How is vanisleflamesfan not lifetime suspended?

I would love to start stereotyping and belittling the typical self-entitled Vancouverite if that's allowed on these boards.

[Flash Walken]

I absolutely love how Calgarians and Albertans who normally gulp the simplistic economic pablum of 'balanced budgets" and "responsible spending" down their throats, forced there by moronic neo-conservative governments, are always so ready to embrace the Olympics. I'm not sure if any of you Harper supporters have ever heard of Oxford University (because it is a place where smart people go to get smarter) but they did a study regarding the Olympics and they concluded this:

"The Games overrun with 100 percent consistency. Other project types are typically on budget from time to time, but the Olympics consistently finish with an average cost overrun in real terms of 179 percent. The data thus show that for a city and nation to decide to host the Olympic Games is to take on one of the most financially risky types of mega-project that exists".

But hey, keep on HARP(ER)ING about the importance of balanced budgets and responsible fiscal planning while also pining for the Olympics.

Thanked for the Tinordi-esque bluntness.

[Erick Estrada]

Thanked for the Tinordi-esque bluntness.

I for one am totally shocked you would see eye to eye with that post. The problem here with his post as with a lot of Tinordi's drive by posts is the crossing of the fine line between being blunt and being rude.

[Locke]

I absolutely love how Calgarians and Albertans who normally gulp the simplistic economic pablum of 'balanced budgets" and "responsible spending" down their throats, forced there by moronic neo-conservative governments, are always so ready to embrace the Olympics. I'm not sure if any of you Harper supporters have ever heard of Oxford University (because it is a place where smart people go to get smarter) but they did a study regarding the Olympics and they concluded this:

"The Games overrun with 100 percent consistency. Other project types are typically on budget from time to time, but the Olympics consistently finish with an average cost overrun in real terms of 179 percent. The data thus show that for a city and nation to decide to host the Olympic Games is to take on one of the most financially risky types of mega-project that exists".

But hey, keep on HARP(ER)ING about the importance of balanced budgets and responsible fiscal planning while also pining for the Olympics.

And yet they still seem to be popping up every couple of years. Imagine that.

[Enoch Root]

Thanked for the Tinordi-esque bluntness.

thought you had more class than that

[rubecube]

I absolutely love how Calgarians and Albertans who normally gulp the simplistic economic pablum of 'balanced budgets" and "responsible spending" down their throats, forced there by moronic neo-conservative governments, are always so ready to embrace the Olympics. I'm not sure if any of you Harper supporters have ever heard of Oxford University (because it is a place where smart people go to get smarter) but they did a study regarding the Olympics and they concluded this:

"The Games overrun with 100 percent consistency. Other project types are typically on budget from time to time, but the Olympics consistently finish with an average cost overrun in real terms of 179 percent. The data thus show that for a city and nation to decide to host the Olympic Games is to take on one of the most financially risky types of mega-project that exists".

But hey, keep on HARP(ER)ING about the importance of balanced budgets and responsible fiscal planning while also pining for the Olympics.

Thanked for A+ condescension and trolling.

[Flash Walken]

thought you had more class than that

That is next level trolling. Amazing stuff.

How could you NOT thank it?

[cgy2london]

I absolutely love how Calgarians and Albertans who normally gulp the simplistic economic pablum of 'balanced budgets" and "responsible spending" down their throats, forced there by moronic neo-conservative governments, are always so ready to embrace the Olympics. I'm not sure if any of you Harper supporters have ever heard of Oxford University (because it is a place where smart people go to get smarter) but they did a study regarding the Olympics and they concluded this:

"The Games overrun with 100 percent consistency. Other project types are typically on budget from time to time, but the Olympics consistently finish with an average cost overrun in real terms of 179 percent. The data thus show that for a city and nation to decide to host the Olympic Games is to take on one of the most financially risky types of mega-project that exists".

But hey, keep on HARP(ER)ING about the importance of balanced budgets and responsible fiscal planning while also pining for the Olympics.

We put on a great, profitable show in 88...

I'm sure we can do it again. :)

[rubecube]

That is next level trolling. Amazing stuff.

How could you NOT thank it?

It really has all the elements. Contrarian viewpoint? Check. Insulting the majority of the forum's ideology? Check. Over the top condescension and derision? Check, check, check!