Flames bring back Douglas Murray and Aaron Johnson on PTOs

[sureLoss]

Roger Millions @RogMillions
With #Flame vets Douglas Murray is back on PTO. All skating this am except Paul Byron . FYI Dougie Hamilton skating with Ladislav Smid

Roger Millions @RogMillions
Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton, Russell, Wideman, Smid, Engelland, Murray, Wilson. That's a whole lot of NHL Veteran Defenceman #Flames

[SuperMatt18]

They probably sign one of Murray or Wilson as an AHL body and injury protection.

Lots of young d-men on the farm, already have one injury back there (Culkin) and the other young guys could use a good veteran to learn from in the AHL.

[CroFlames]

Well what do you know. I guess BT is never satisfied.

The bottom pairing has no shortage of options I guess with the vets and prospects all clamoring for a job.

[Locke]

I find that strange seeing as we've got 3-4 guys already knocking on that door. Murray couldnt hack it when we really needed someone but now we're logjammed.

[CroFlames]

I find that strange seeing as we've got 3-4 guys already knocking on that door. Murray couldnt hack it when we really needed someone but now we're logjammed.

I see this as BT sending a message to the players. No one's job is safe and nothing is given. You better come to camp to work.

Hell, if Murray has an amazing camp, then we have a vet with experience in Stockton who can pinch hit when needed.

[undercoverbrother]

"Always Earned, Never Given"

[Finger Cookin]

Do we really have 3-4 defensemen knocking on the door?

[MoreDrank]

They probably sign one of Murray or Wilson as an AHL body and injury protection.

Lots of young d-men on the farm, already have one injury back there (Culkin) and the other young guys could use a good veteran to learn from in the AHL.

Perhaps this is true. However, Douglas Murray is not a good veteran. He's the opposite of good. He's bad. Very bad. Even too bad for the AHL bad.

I think the Flames are bringing him to camp so Hamilton doesn't feel lonely being the only Doug.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Do we really have 3-4 defensemen knocking on the door?
Yes I concur, who are these 3-4 almost ready prospects? I can't think of any D-man who wasn't on the team last year (save Hamilton) who I'm even remotely confident have a shot at being ready this year. I guess Morrison (which I only think because of the hype last year when we signed him, I actually don't know) and Wotherspoon are the most likely, and Wotherspoon didn't raise up my confidence last season.

[Locke]

I see this as BT sending a message to the players. No one's job is safe and nothing is given. You better come to camp to work.

Hell, if Murray has an amazing camp, then we have a vet with experience in Stockton who can pinch hit when needed.

I could see some of this, but he'd probably be more keen on a European job than an AHL job. I'm guessing this is his last kick at the NHL can. He's not likely going to get signed here but if he has a good camp maybe someone will pick him up.

It is a message to the Flames players, but not much of one. We've basically got our 7 defencemen all sewed up.

Do we really have 3-4 defensemen knocking on the door?

From what I understand any one of Wotherspoon, Morrison and Nakladal are in prime running and then theres some guys behind them in development as well.

[Strange Brew]

I get the whole "no risk move" thing. But Murray is awful. Didn't realize they were short of bodies for training camp because seems to me, that's all he is.

[Finger Cookin]

From what I understand any one of Wotherspoon, Morrison and Nakladal are in prime running and then theres some guys behind them in development as well.
I guess I just take the phrase "knocking on the door" to be a lot closer to being regular NHL players than you do. Yes, the Flames have greatly improved the depth of defensive prospects compared to a year ago. But I don't think it's to the point where we turn over more than half of our NHL roster D to make room for them. I don't see the Flames moving out every experienced defensemen not named Giordano, Brodie, or Hamilton to make way for these prospects -- at least not right now. Let's see how camp goes. Maybe someone will be moved if a player takes a job away from another.

[Locke]

I guess I just take the phrase "knocking on the door" to be a lot closer to being regular NHL players than you do. Yes, the Flames have greatly improved the depth of defensive prospects compared to a year ago. But I don't think it's to the point where we turn over more than half of our NHL roster D to make room for them. I don't see the Flames moving out every experienced defensemen not named Giordano, Brodie, or Hamilton to make way for these prospects -- at least not right now. Let's see how camp goes. Maybe someone will be moved if a player takes a job away from another.

No, no, no, on that we're on the same page.

I'm talking about being on the verge of breaking in as a sheltered 7th defenceman and occasional injury callup.

In that respect Wotherspoon is basically already that.

If there were ever a reason to call up a guy like Murray then circumstances would have to be dire indeed.

[Finger Cookin]

Ah, got it. Not promoting 3-4 guys, but that any one of those 3-4 could be on the NHL roster as a 7th D.

[saillias]

Flames can't get enough of this guy it seems. Ryan Wilson I like. But Murray couldn't skate at the NHL level when he was last in the league and I don't see how he's gotten any faster playing in Europe.

[wireframe]

Why would Murray sign this? The Flames are one of the deepest defensive teams in the league. He has virtually no chance of making the team.

[Locke]

Why would Murray sign this? The Flames are one of the deepest defensive teams in the league. He has virtually no chance of making the team.

I think its just to try and showcase himself to other teams. Its not like training camp is done behind closed doors all teams are watching players on PTOs.

[Finger Cookin]

Why would Murray sign this? The Flames are one of the deepest defensive teams in the league. He has virtually no chance of making the team.

@Fan960Steinberg 11m11 minutes ago
From my understanding, Doug Murray coming to training camp is connected to the PTO he signed last year. #Flames

[TorqueDog]

I think its just to try and showcase himself to other teams. Its not like training camp is done behind closed doors all teams are watching players on PTOs.Pretty much this. A player can sign a deal at any point during a PTO, so this could allow Murray some additional exposure and perhaps help him find a contract somewhere.

[CroFlames]

Why would Murray sign this? The Flames are one of the deepest defensive teams in the league. He has virtually no chance of making the team.

If you were not in the NHL (which you aren't) and someone offered you a tryout, you would refuse because they have a deep d-corps?

It's the NHL man. Of course he's sign something for a crack at making it.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think its just to try and showcase himself to other teams. Its not like training camp is done behind closed doors all teams are watching players on PTOs.

Yeah, getting a PTO from and NHL team basically puts him on the radar league-wide.

Dennis Wideman once came to Calgary on a PTO and was signed away by St. Louis for example.

[Knut]

If he has a good camp competing against top dmen then he is more likely to get a job elsewhere vs. losing out to Nikitin in Edmonton.

Regardless he also helps our young guys get used to playing against bruising defense-men in the NHL.

[Bingo]

Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions 30m30 minutes ago
Aaron Johnson is another veteran Defenceman on a PTO with #Flames

[killer_carlson]

I wonder if this means there are a number of suitors for one of Russell or Engellend

[Locke]

I wonder if this means there are a number of suitors for one of Russell or Engellend

I doubt it...why would we move one of Russell or Engelland and then sign Murray or Johnson?

[FlamesAddiction]

Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions 30m30 minutes ago
Aaron Johnson is another veteran Defenceman on a PTO with #Flames

He had a couple of decent years in the AHL last year. Would be a good depth player to have on-call in case injuries hit. An upgrade on Potter anyway IMO.

[Poe969]

In the BT interview, he kind of says that there are deals to be made and is open about making changes to the roster if the option presents itself. I wonder if one or more defender is being pursued by other teams.

[killer_carlson]

I doubt it...why would we move one of Russell or Engelland and then sign Murray or Johnson?

Cap relief?

Don't know, but when we bring in guys for spots we have filled, my first thought is that there is a possibility to move someone.

[FlamesFanStrandedInEDM]

Didn't Anton Stralman use the Calgary Flames training camp as an opportunity to get signed by the Rangers?

[Locke]

Cap relief?

Don't know, but when we bring in guys for spots we have filled, my first thought is that there is a possibility to move someone.

Thats all I can really think of too, but we dont really need cap relief.

And moving, for instance, Russell or Engelland and replacing them with Murray or Johnson gives us cap relief but makes our team worse which doesnt really seem like Treliving's style.

[Locke]

Didn't Anton Stralman use the Calgary Flames training camp as an opportunity to get signed by the Rangers?

I think we signed and traded Stralman didnt we?

[Hack&Lube]

Didn't Anton Stralman use the Calgary Flames training camp as an opportunity to get signed by the Rangers?

No, our management traded him, even after he expressed that he liked our city and his first child was born here.

[Ozy_Flame]

Didn't we get Aaron Johnson in a prior trade years ago?

[getbak]

I think we signed and traded Stralman didnt we?
Trade and trade. He was acquired from Toronto at the end of July 2009 for Wayne Primeau. Then, he was sent to Columbus at the end of training camp that year.

It was basically a Joe Colborne situation where he didn't make the Flames out of camp and wasn't likely to clear waivers, so he was traded to get some value for him.

[FireItUp]

Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions (https://twitter.com/RogMillions) 44m44 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/RogMillions/status/643470856077709312) Calgary, Alberta (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A53504716d445dcad) Czech Jakub Nakladal looks very good practicing with #Flames (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Flames?src=hash) veterans. Certainly in the running for 6-7-8 Defenceman.

[GranteedEV]

Didn't Anton Stralman use the Calgary Flames training camp as an opportunity to get signed by the Rangers?

We traded for Anton Stralman, he was the return on the Wayne Primeau trade.

Then Sutter flipped him soon after to Columbus for a draft pick (Max Reinhart). I don't think Stralman ever made it to our training camp.

[FlamesAddiction]

Didn't we get Aaron Johnson in a prior trade years ago?

Then sent him to Edmonton that season (waivers?).

I recall some people were upset about it at the time.

[getbak]

Then sent him to Edmonton that season (waivers?).

I recall some people were upset about it at the time.

Staios trade.

[1991 Canadian]

Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions 30m30 minutes ago
Aaron Johnson is another veteran Defenceman on a PTO with #Flames

Good. It sounds like he could would be an upgrade over Nolan Yonkman if he signs to an AHL deal.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0073032015.html

Most AHL teams seem to have a couple decent AHL journeyman to round out the roster. I think if you add a Ben Street or a Aaron Johnson the Heat are a playoff team. While its great that our top players were all prospects, I think you need a AHL-esque Hudler or Giordano to provide some veteran leadership/production.

[1Nite]

Why would Murray sign this? The Flames are one of the deepest defensive teams in the league. He has virtually no chance of making the team.

Just so one day he can tell his kids he was in the same dressing room as "Johny hockey".

[Bandwagon In Flames]

This is starting to give me an impression that Treliving really wants to go deep this year. Sign 2-3 vets to AHL deals that can potentially come up late in the year when injuries become a problem.

[FlameFan21]

I4htVgrMqz4
What I remember most about AJ
/tangent

[CroFlames]

This is starting to give me an impression that Treliving really wants to go deep this year. Sign 2-3 vets to AHL deals that can potentially come up late in the year when injuries become a problem.

The problem with that statement is that I don't think Murray can step in even in relief. He was slow then, probably slower now. And the NHL is faster than ever.

I'd rather throw in a Wotherspoon who could at least keep up the pace, if not being totally NHL ready.

[neo45]

Murray is definitely a long shot for a contract if he didn't earn one when Gio was out last year

[dustygoon]

I might be off, but didn't yonkman see a lot of games in ahl last year while some of the younger guys were in the press box?

[Strange Brew]

Thats all I can really think of too, but we dont really need cap relief.

And moving, for instance, Russell or Engelland and replacing them with Murray or Johnson gives us cap relief but makes our team worse which doesnt really seem like Treliving's style.

That's not really true going into next off season. Still not expecting a trade on eve of training camp.

[Locke]

That's not really true going into next off season. Still not expecting a trade on eve of training camp.

Yeah, sorry, I should have been more specific. We dont need cap relief right now.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

The problem with that statement is that I don't think Murray can step in even in relief. He was slow then, probably slower now. And the NHL is faster than ever.

I'd rather throw in a Wotherspoon who could at least keep up the pace, if not being totally NHL ready.

That's great if rookies can step up and provide more in the NHL than these old veteran defense men. Treliving can rest easier having Wotherspoon up here as the 7th defenseman/first call-up without worrying about the AHL team tanking due to having 0 veteran D experience on the farm.

[Bingo]

I honestly think PTO's are as much about filling out camp when you have split squads and back to back games to start a preseason schedule then it is about seeing a guy in your actual plans. Better to have Murray count as one of those "NHL guys" for league rules in the preseason then to beat the tar out of say Brodie and Giordano in the silly season.

[Caged Great]

More competition is always good. Between Wilson, Murray, and Johnson, you have to figure that one of those guys will take Potter's 8th/9th defenseman role while another would take Yonkman's spot.

Experience and leadership in the A is never a bad thing even though it's more of a developmental focus.

[getbak]

Murray is definitely a long shot for a contract if he didn't earn one when Gio was out last year
Different circumstances though.

Last season, his PTO started after the trade deadline, which meant if he had been signed, he would have been ineligible to play in the playoffs. If he would have established himself in the lineup, it could have been a setback when the playoffs rolled around, and he had to be replaced.

Also, signing him at the end of last season would have been one more contract on the books, which might have impacted the ability to sign a college free agent. As it was, with Bennett playing 10+ games and his contract no longer sliding, and Gillies signing after the Frozen Four, the Flames ended the season with 49 contracts on the books.


With the new season, there are many available options for Murray, including the AHL. Right now, the Flames have 47 NHL contracts for 2015-16, with Kylington and McDonald's able to slide, so they effectively have room to add five contracts.

[getbak]

I honestly think PTO's are as much about filling out camp when you have split squads and back to back games to start a preseason schedule then it is about seeing a guy in your actual plans. Better to have Murray count as one of those "NHL guys" for league rules in the preseason then to beat the tar out of say Brodie and Giordano in the silly season.

That's a good point. I forgot about the veterans rule for the preseason. All of Murray, Johnson, and Wilson have played more than 100 NHL games, so they all count as veterans.


Here are the preseason requirements...
A Club shall be permitted to dress a minimum of eight (8) veterans for any Exhibition Game.

For purposes of this Section 15.4(c), a veteran shall constitute either:
(1) a forward or defenseman who played in thirty (30) NHL Games during the previous season,
(2) a goaltender who either dressed in fifty (50) or more NHL Games or played in thirty (30) or more NHL Games in the previous season,
(3) a first round draft choice from the most recent year's Entry Draft, or
(4) any Player who has played one-hundred (100) or more career NHL Games.

The matter of Player participation in Exhibition Games shall be referred to the NHL/NHLPA Competition Committee for its consideration and recommendations, if any, in accordance with Article 22.

[Reaper]

That's a good point. I forgot about the veterans rule for the preseason. All of Murray, Johnson, and Wilson have played more than 100 NHL games, so they all count as veterans.

(3) a first round draft choice from the most recent year's Entry Draft

This one highlights the fact that this rule is about insuring a certain level of entertainment value for preseason games as opposed to insuring competition level.

Zero games makes a veteran if you were this year's first round pick. :blink:

[calumniate]

Staios for Johnson and picks. When Johnson was playing well and we had all our cap spent on d. That was a sutter debacle!

[dammage79]

Douglas Murray can be handy in the a 2nd round series vs one of the big teams like ANA or STL. If they manage to sign him out of camp he'll be a welcome depth addition to the club.

[jayswin]

Douglas Murray can be handy in the a 2nd round series vs one of the big teams like ANA or STL. If they manage to sign him out of camp he'll be a welcome depth addition to the club.

Handy for the other team?

[CroFlames]

Douglas Murray can be handy in the a 2nd round series vs one of the big teams like ANA or STL. If they manage to sign him out of camp he'll be a welcome depth addition to the club.

Yikes. Douglas Murray vs Anaheim is a nightmare for me (and a lot of Flames fans I'll warrant).

The Ducks would skate circles around him.

[mrdonkey]

Douglas Murray can be handy in the a 2nd round series vs one of the big teams like ANA or STL. If they manage to sign him out of camp he'll be a welcome depth addition to the club.


Douglas Murray from 5 years ago, maybe.

[Sylvanfan]

Murray could prove handy if he would eat Mason Raymond and Ladislav Smid to get their cap hits off the books next year.

[ditty]

Anyone know what Murray's situation with Köln in the DEL was last year? He only played 8 games. Did he sign late in the season with them? Was he scratched a lot or released early on?

[getbak]

It looks like he signed with them in late January when they only had 11 games left in their season. They didn't make the playoffs, so he was done in Germany in early March, which is when he came to Calgary.

[GioforPM]

That's great if rookies can step up and provide more in the NHL than these old veteran defense men. Treliving can rest easier having Wotherspoon up here as the 7th defenseman/first call-up without worrying about the AHL team tanking due to having 0 veteran D experience on the farm.

One question is whether Wotherspoon is better off practicing and sitting in the NHL or playing in the AHL. Legit opinions on both sides.

[Muta]

I think it's time Wotherspoon started playing some NHL games. He really should be our sixth defenseman by now, he's ready for the show. I'm not sure why he's being continually passed over.

[Locke]

I think it's time Wotherspoon started playing some NHL games. He really should be our sixth defenseman by now, he's ready for the show. I'm not sure why he's being continually passed over.

I agree. Its time to get him some NHL time.

Time to fish or cut bait, just like Potter.

[JiriHrdina]

If he's ready - he'll show he's ready. He hasn't yet.

[Muta]

If he's ready - he'll show he's ready. He hasn't yet.

I thought he played really well two seasons ago for that time he spent with the Flames, I actually thought he was ready back then. :bag:

[jayswin]

I thought he played really well two seasons ago for that time he spent with the Flames, I actually thought he was ready back then. :bag:

He's not very solid yet, and Hartley sees things in his game that keeps him to very low minutes when he does play.

I also believe it was Brad Treliving who hinted that he wasn't fully committed to improving his game and that they expected that to change for this season. If that is true than I can see why he hasn't been able to make the jump, as not fully committing to earning your spot in this organization is a career killer for yourself.

[savardandjokinen]

All these defenseman (gio, Hamilton, Brodie, Russell, wideman, Engelland, smid, nakladal, Murray, Johnson, wotherspoon, Wilson, Morrison etc) would have a chance at making it if we are talking 2012-2013 2013-2014 flames. It shows how we have improved so much

[GioforPM]

I think there's a lot of CPers who got married to the notion of Wotherspoon as an up and coming Flame back when he was really the only solid D prospect. Sort of like those that were married to the notion of Sven being the future star of the Flames. But Sven was supplanted by Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett and Ferland, not to mention guys like Jooris. Wotherspoon risks being supplanted by Anderson, Kylington, Morrison, and even a guy like Nakladl.

[tvp2003]

I agree. Its time to get him some NHL time.

Time to fish or cut bait, just like Potter.

Potter is 31, Wotherspoon is 22. Let's give the kid a couple more years to learn how to play NHL defence before we cut him loose.

[Enoch Root]

I think there's a lot of CPers who got married to the notion of Wotherspoon as an up and coming Flame back when he was really the only solid D prospect. Sort of like those that were married to the notion of Sven being the future star of the Flames. But Sven was supplanted by Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett and Ferland, not to mention guys like Jooris. Wotherspoon risks being supplanted by Anderson, Kylington, Morrison, and even a guy like Nakladl.

Baertschi stopped progressing and those other prospects passed him.

Wotherspoon is still on track and none of those other prospects have passed him.

Just because people have a different view of a prospect than you, doesn't mean they are married to some idea that you created in your head.

[ricardodw]

Baertschi stopped progressing and those other prospects passed him.

Wotherspoon is still on track and none of those other prospects have passed him.

Just because people have a different view of a prospect than you, doesn't mean they are married to some idea that you created in your head.

Erixon has been declared off track at 23-24. Gromley off track at 23. This is Wotherspoon's make or break year.

[getbak]

I agree. Its time to get him some NHL time.

Time to fish or cut bait, just like Potter.
Potter? Corey Potter?

He was never expected to be anything more than he was last season: a veteran with some NHL experience who could easily clear waivers to go to the AHL and be available for a call-up to sit in the press box if a d-man got hurt.

It would not have benefitted Wotherspoon's development to be in that position last season.


Obviously, this is a big year for Wotherspoon because his ELC will be expiring and he'll require waivers in 2016-17, but there's still a lot of hockey to be played before it gets to that point.

[JiriHrdina]

I thought he played really well two seasons ago for that time he spent with the Flames, I actually thought he was ready back then. :bag:

Me too. But I think he took a step back last year.
That's OK - development is rarely smooth. But it is a critical year. At minimum, he should be making the decisions tougher coming out of camp.
He doesn't have to make the team - but he has to get them thinking he can play at this level. If we enter camp next year having the same conversation - then it truly is make or break.

[SebC]

If I'm a GM and an NHL veteran asks me for a PTO, I'd be tempted to look at it as a low-cost opportunity to generate some goodwill that might get paid back later if that player becomes an agent or GM or coach or scout or whatever (not necessarily at the NHL level)...

[GioforPM]

Baertschi stopped progressing and those other prospects passed him.

Wotherspoon is still on track and none of those other prospects have passed him.

Just because people have a different view of a prospect than you, doesn't mean they are married to some idea that you created in your head.

I don't have any particular view of Wotherspoon except that he has a lot of competition this year that was absent even a year ago. I still think he has a good shot at making the team very soon. I was hoping he'd make the jump last year. What I actually just said was that, if he hasn't been passed yet, he's in danger of having it happen this year. How is that untrue? Morrison has impressed people, as has Nakladl and Anderson. They could easily leapfrog him, just like prospects leapfrogged Sven.

Anyway, I didn't "create" anything - it's an observation of posters demanding a callup for Wotherspoon when management and the coaches on both teams didn't think it was warranted. So why were they asking for this? It can't be because he was obviously ready.

[Enoch Root]

I don't have any particular view of Wotherspoon except that he has a lot of competition this year that was absent even a year ago. I still think he has a good shot at making the team very soon. I was hoping he'd make the jump last year. What I actually just said was that, if he hasn't been passed yet, he's in danger of having it happen this year. How is that untrue? Morrison has impressed people, as has Nakladl and Anderson. They could easily leapfrog him, just like prospects leapfrogged Sven.

Anyway, I didn't "create" anything - it's an observation of posters demanding a callup for Wotherspoon when management and the coaches on both teams didn't think it was warranted. So why were they asking for this? It can't be because he was obviously ready.

Not sure where you're going here.

I don't recall any posters 'demanding' he be called up

Also, he WAS called up (more than once). And he dressed in the playoffs

Other players may pass him, time will tell. Suggesting posters are 'married' to some idea is what I challenged.

[GioforPM]

Not sure where you're going here.

I don't recall any posters 'demanding' he be called up

Also, he WAS called up (more than once). And he dressed in the playoffs

Other players may pass him, time will tell. Suggesting posters are 'married' to some idea is what I challenged.

There certainly were posters who repeatedly said he should be called up. You are obviously correct, we was called up (twice as I recall). When that happened the same posters questioned why he wasn't playing.

My suggestion on posters' attitudes stems from from those, and the present posts questioning his placement among D prospects, without recognizing that he either took a step back or didn't progress as hoped.

[Phanuthier]

There certainly were posters who repeatedly said he should be called up. You are obviously correct, we was called up (twice as I recall). When that happened the same posters questioned why he wasn't playing.

My suggestion on posters' attitudes stems from from those, and the present posts questioning his placement among D prospects, without recognizing that he either took a step back or didn't progress as hoped.
Well, a few things...

- he's 21... defenseman take longer to develop

- he was injured to start the year last year, took some time to get back up to speed with no training camp

- better for him to play minutes in the AHL then sit in the press box

- again, he's 21.

Doubt he's getting "passed over" because a few guys looked good in a young stars tournament

[GioforPM]

Well, a few things...

- he's 21... defenseman take longer to develop

- he was injured to start the year last year, took some time to get back up to speed with no training camp

- better for him to play minutes in the AHL then sit in the press box

- again, he's 21.

Doubt he's getting "passed over" because a few guys looked good in a young stars tournament

I agree with all that. But I never said he was being passed over. Posters who want him on the roste now have said so.

I said his spot was in danger, and it is.

[CroFlames]

I think people just like to see a drafted prospect go through the development cycle and make the team they were drafted by. I think there is a certain degree of satisfaction that come out of that as a fan, and so that's why people want Wotherspoon to make it so bad. He seems like the likeliest candidate.

I think he's on the right track developmentally. However, as it stands the Flames have 7 NHL defensemen. Hartley is in the business of winning hockey games. He's going to pick his 6 best d-men every night. Wotherspoon has some good tools, but he still has kinks he needs to iron out. He looked nervous with the puck sometimes in the playoffs, and it seemed like the game was a 1/2 step to fast for him. These are problems that can be coached, and I'm not worried about him.

Also, the Flames all of a sudden have a nice crop of d-prospects that have some pretty good potential. I wouldn't be shocked if Andersson supplants Wotherspoon for instance. I couldn't believe how well he handled himself in Penticton, and his positioning was perfect from my viewpoint. I think having a donnybrook with Nurse showed that he is emotionally invested in games, and has that desire to win. Nurse was clearly the best kid on the ice, so Andersson goes after him. Classic.

[Phanuthier]

By the time Rasmus Andersson is challenging for a NHL spot, half our blueline might have turned over (Smid, Engelland, Wideman)... paving the way for some collection of Andersson, Wotherspoon, Morrison. Maybe by the time Kylington and Hickey are ready, Russell is moving on.

I would be very very surprised if Andersson plays in the NHL as a teenager, BT talks about over-ripening players all the time. He even said he would have sent back Monahan back to juniors in his 18-year old season even though he did well; I can't see him having Andersson in the NHL as a 18 year old or 19 year old. I think he'll probably want to see D prospects play a full year in the AHL before they get serious consideration for the NHL. Its one thing to play great in a young stars tournament against other prospects, its another to provide the same level of play game to game in January and February against Florida and Tampa Bay back to back.

[GioforPM]

By the time Rasmus Andersson is challenging for a NHL spot, half our blueline might have turned over (Smid, Engelland, Wideman)... paving the way for some collection of Andersson, Wotherspoon, Morrison. Maybe by the time Kylington and Hickey are ready, Russell is moving on.

I would be very very surprised if Andersson plays in the NHL as a teenager, BT talks about over-ripening players all the time. He even said he would have sent back Monahan back to juniors in his 18-year old season even though he did well; I can't see him having Andersson in the NHL as a 18 year old or 19 year old. I think he'll probably want to see D prospects play a full year in the AHL before they get serious consideration for the NHL. Its one thing to play great in a young stars tournament against other prospects, its another to provide the same level of play game to game in January and February against Florida and Tampa Bay back to back.

I'd say that, in terms of when they will become full time NHLers. Wotherspoon is still ahead of everyone along the lines of Andersson, Kylington etc. Morrison is 23, let's not forget, and probably closer as well, like Jooris and Guadreau. Nakladl is a wild card IMO. I think he was signed as a guy who could potentially make the team.

On the recent PTOs, Warrener suggested that they were signed in part to fill preseason road game rosters, so that the Flames can meet requirements for NHL players in those games.

[Phanuthier]

I'd say that, in terms of when they will become full time NHLers. Wotherspoon is still ahead of everyone along the lines of Andersson, Kylington etc. Morrison is 23, let's not forget, and probably closer as well, like Jooris and Guadreau. Nakladl is a wild card IMO. I think he was signed as a guy who could potentially make the team.

On the recent PTOs, Warrener suggested that they were signed in part to fill preseason road game rosters, so that the Flames can meet requirements for NHL players in those games.
Yeah, probably. Half a decade ago, I would have said 1/3 prospects will probably fill their potential. Normally the optimistic side of me will say half, but I'll be even more optimistic and say 2/3 here.

Pick 4 of 6 of Kylington, Andersson, Wotherspoon, Morrison, Hickey, Kulak. To me, Wotherspoon might not have the same upside but he's a lot safer bet since I've seen him play in the NHL and I like what I see. I understand what you say with Morrison RE: age, so I have him in this first lot. With 4 spots probably opening up (Smid, Engelland, Wideman, maybe Russell) - seems to make sense. Probably at least one of those prospects may be packaged in a trade at some point too.

Maybe 1 of 2 of Culkin, Sieloff (the 2 perma-injured prospects).

Not sure what to think of Nakladl, especially since he's a bit older; I think this is more of a pit stop for him, like Ryan Wilson.

[ricardodw]

Yeah, probably. Half a decade ago, I would have said 1/3 prospects will probably fill their potential. Normally the optimistic side of me will say half, but I'll be even more optimistic and say 2/3 here.

Pick 4 of 6 of Kylington, Andersson, Wotherspoon, Morrison, Hickey, Kulak. To me, Wotherspoon might not have the same upside but he's a lot safer bet since I've seen him play in the NHL and I like what I see. I understand what you say with Morrison RE: age, so I have him in this first lot. With 4 spots probably opening up (Smid, Engelland, Wideman, maybe Russell) - seems to make sense. Probably at least one of those prospects may be packaged in a trade at some point too.

Maybe 1 of 2 of Culkin, Sieloff (the 2 perma-injured prospects).

Not sure what to think of Nakladl, especially since he's a bit older; I think this is more of a pit stop for him, like Ryan Wilson.

What you are saying is that the Flames have the best D prospects in the history of the NHL.

This is basically starting from zero in 2014-15 having no one ready when the team was down to 4 NHL D men.... with no high draft picks


I challenge you to find me any team's prospect list from 5 years ago where even half of the prospects are now solid NHL players.

[Caged Great]

We'll be doing alright if 2 of our current group hit their potential, and very lucky if three or four do. Mind you, they have hit with an unusually high number of their forward prospects as well thus far so who knows.

[Heavy Jack]

While I agree that it would be a rare sight ricardow I have to say that the current prospect pool in D is quite substantial in terms of potential and ceiling.

Objectively I'll say that Kulak, Culkin and Wilson are the longest shots to ever play a meaningful amount of games in the big league. They'll have to work the hardest because there is nothing elite about their games.

Wotherspoon whether its with the Flames or someone else has all the tools to play at least 300 plus games with a good potential for a lot more. He's a steady defender, had a great cup of coffee two years ago and is a stud at the AHL level. He's a gamer for sure.

The Swedes both have insane offensive upside, that alone will capture them both some significant NHL time. But if they work on their conditioning and their 200 foot game they could easily become big players in time. Most NHL D are taken in rounds 2-4 and with Wotherspoon and the Swedes with have three mid-late 2nd rounders. Are they guarantees??? Nothing in hockey is guaranteed, all the Flames players are saying it, Russell, Wideman, Backlund, Gaudreau they all have recently stated that. Which is what is so exciting about our current group of young talent and prospects, the management and coaches have everyone on the same page, no passengers, which will see the Flames turn out more and more drafted talent as the years go by.

Backlund
Brodie
Bouma
Ferland
Gaudreau
Granlund
Monahan
Ortio


Most if not all of these players will play some significant games this year, all drafted talent, easily the most the Flames have iced since the young guns days. To go with that we have so much more talent knocking on the door in Klimchuk, Poirier, Wotherspoon, ect

Are they all going to make it? Probably not, but its hard to deny how much upside our prospect pool has currently, easily one of the deepest in the league.

[ricardodw]

While I agree that it would be a rare sight ricardow I have to say that the current prospect pool in D is quite substantial in terms of potential and ceiling.

Objectively I'll say that Kulak, Culkin and Wilson are the longest shots to ever play a meaningful amount of games in the big league. They'll have to work the hardest because there is nothing elite about their games.

Wotherspoon whether its with the Flames or someone else has all the tools to play at least 300 plus games with a good potential for a lot more. He's a steady defender, had a great cup of coffee two years ago and is a stud at the AHL level. He's a gamer for sure.

The Swedes both have insane offensive upside, that alone will capture them both some significant NHL time. But if they work on their conditioning and their 200 foot game they could easily become big players in time. Most NHL D are taken in rounds 2-4 and with Wotherspoon and the Swedes with have three mid-late 2nd rounders. Are they guarantees??? Nothing in hockey is guaranteed, all the Flames players are saying it, Russell, Wideman, Backlund, Gaudreau they all have recently stated that. Which is what is so exciting about our current group of young talent and prospects, the management and coaches have everyone on the same page, no passengers, which will see the Flames turn out more and more drafted talent as the years go by.

Backlund
Brodie
Bouma
Ferland
Gaudreau
Granlund
Monahan
Ortio


Most if not all of these players will play some significant games this year, all drafted talent, easily the most the Flames have iced since the young guns days. To go with that we have so much more talent knocking on the door in Klimchuk, Poirier, Wotherspoon, ect

Are they all going to make it? Probably not, but its hard to deny how much upside our prospect pool has currently, easily one of the deepest in the league.


I think that based on the openings that they Flames have had and the opportunities that the players have made the best of it has given us Flames fans an unrealistic expectation of our prospects.


It is great that there unlike when Bouma, Backlund and Brodie were the only prospects that graduated out of our prospects.

As to the 2nd to 4th draft picks on defense..... it stands out when a later round pick makes it because it is a good story. The facts do not bear this out.

From the 2011 draft Larrson, Hamilton, Brodin,Ryan Murphy, Oleseak, Beaulieu, Klefbom, Connor Murphy all are from the first round and will without some drastic blow up will be playing more than their 100th NHL games this season....

In rounds 2-4 the best guys are Wotherspoon, Clendening and Oulett and are the only guys that are at all close.