Leland Irving to attend Wild training camp on PTO

[sureLoss]

Michael Russo @Russostrib
#mnwild bringing Calgary #Flames first-rounder, goalie Leland Irving, to camp on a PTO. Fresh off KHL. Essentially trying out for Iowa

[Bandwagon In Flames]

And sureLoss is officially back from vacation!

Best of luck to Irving. Seemed like a nice guy who couldn't stay healthy/consistent for very long.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

TcWPiHjIExA

[FlamesAddiction]

It's not too late for him to have an NHL career if he gets it together.

He seemed like a bit of a sour puss when he left the Flames though.

[underGRADFlame]

And sureLoss is officially back from vacation!


Longest re-boot ever!

http://orig09.deviantart.net/cee6/f/2015/011/a/2/long_live_windows_xp_bootscreen_animated_gif_by_ma cmachine95-d8dla2n.gif

[polak]

Ahh another fine Sutter pick....

[CroFlames]

I was at the game where he picked up the W vs Vancouver. Man those were some tough times against the Orca for a few straight years.

[Huntingwhale]

I remember watching him at the 'Dome and he had the worst rebound control of any NHL goaltender I've ever seen play live. Pucks would hit him and bounce up 30 feet in the air constantly. Don't see that very often at the NHL level.

A shame he could never put it all together. Hopefully he gets a good shot with the Wild.

[Locke]

Is this due to the demise of the ruble? Why try out for an AHL job when you've got a KHL gig?

Does Greece have a league?

[getbak]

He might not have been offered a KHL gig.

He didn't exactly have stellar stats last season: A 2-8-1 record with a 3.35 GAA and 0.883 SV%.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Ahh another fine Sutter pick....

I would excuse him for this one. Irving looked great for a few years there and goalies are really difficult to project. We needed a heir apparent to Kiprusoff and he was one of the best goalies available at that spot. Sutter's biggest mistakes were taking two big, slow, project wingers in 04 and 08 and a big, slow project dman in 05. That's three wasted 1st rounders in five years as none of those guys ever had potential beyond being depth players, and they couldn't even do that. High risk/low reward is no way to draft in the first round, at least Irving had starter potential.

[Locke]

He might not have been offered a KHL gig.

He didn't exactly have stellar stats last season: A 2-8-1 record with a 3.35 GAA and 0.883 SV%.

Ooh. Those are pretty rough.

In fairness though Scrivens had a 3.16 and .890 and Fasth had a stellar 3.41 and .888 and they were getting paid NHL dollars!

[mikephoen]

I would excuse him for this one. Irving looked great for a few years there and goalies are really difficult to project. We needed a heir apparent to Kiprusoff and he was one of the best goalies available at that spot. Sutter's biggest mistakes were taking two big, slow, project wingers in 04 and 08 and a big, slow project dman in 05. That's three wasted 1st rounders in five years as none of those guys ever had potential beyond being depth players, and they couldn't even do that. High risk/low reward is no way to draft in the first round, at least Irving had starter potential.

There is never an excuse for drafting a goalie in the first round.

You can flip a 2nd for a fully developed goalie with starter potential every off season. This year you had a choice of 4 or 5 of them. It only took a 3rd last year to get a guy that got a Vezina nomination.

Just say no to drafting goalies!

[GranteedEV]

There is never an excuse for drafting a goalie in the first round.

You can flip a 2nd for a fully developed goalie with starter potential every off season. This year you had a choice of 4 or 5 of them. It only took a 3rd last year to get a guy that got a Vezina nomination.

Just say no to drafting goalies!

Disagree, there can be good goaltenders with a very high ceiling in the first round, BPA is BPA. Vasilevsky was a 1st rounder. Dubnyk was a 1st rounder. Price was a 1st rounder.

The issue is development, and that's where the Flames failed with Irving as they failed to ever get him technically sound. You look at the Heat roster from back then and the heat roster next season you can see a clear difference in philosophy - even if the Heat lose every game next year the emphasis is on individual players improving their game. Back then it was "prospects will ride shotgun with older players lightening the load and we'll see who ends up decent".

[getbak]

There is never an excuse for drafting a goalie in the first round.

You can flip a 2nd for a fully developed goalie with starter potential every off season. This year you had a choice of 4 or 5 of them. It only took a 3rd last year to get a guy that got a Vezina nomination.

Just say no to drafting goalies!
http://1.cdn.nhle.com/nhl/images/upload/2015/06/price_trophies062515_672.jpg

[Ashasx]

His game against the Canucks before Christmas in 2011 was fantastic. Quite the memory, with us beating Detroit the night before.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

There is never an excuse for drafting a goalie in the first round.

You can flip a 2nd for a fully developed goalie with starter potential every off season. This year you had a choice of 4 or 5 of them. It only took a 3rd last year to get a guy that got a Vezina nomination.

Just say no to drafting goalies!
I agree with that if it's a top 15-20 pick but Irving was drafted #26 and we didn't have another pick until late in the third round. The only goalies (that amounted to anything) that were drafted later on were Chad Johnson and James Reimer. They probably weren't on Sutter's radar and aren't very good anyway.

[Poe969]

Goalies are a crap shoot. Sutter took a chance and lost on this one, I wish him the best of luck with the wild.

[CroFlames]

His game against the Canucks before Christmas in 2011 was fantastic. Quite the memory, with us beating Detroit the night before.

That's the game I was at :D

[mikephoen]

http://1.cdn.nhle.com/nhl/images/upload/2015/06/price_trophies062515_672.jpg

There is always an exception or two.


And there is also this:

Let's say the Canadiens had drafted Kopitar with the pick they used on Price that year and then picked Jonathan Quick in the 3rd round of the same draft, then maybe they would have the 2 cups that LA has.

[mikephoen]

I agree with that if it's a top 15-20 pick but Irving was drafted #26 and we didn't have another pick until late in the third round. The only goalies (that amounted to anything) that were drafted later on were Chad Johnson and James Reimer. They probably weren't on Sutter's radar and aren't very good anyway.

So in other words, don't waste picks on goalies?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

So in other words, don't waste picks on goalies?
That's not what I said but it is a good way to end up like Edmonton.

If you believe in the guy enough, you should pick him or someone else will.
This franchise got EXTREMELY lucky with Kiprusoff, it's hardly a model worth following. If he didn't work out, we would have a worse record with goalies than the Flyers.

[darthma]

http://img.fanbase.com/media.fanbase.com/8/28731/9eaea5add62f787bdf54b7a4a2dc6c1c3ef16bb2.jpg?x=433&y=744&sig=50090248fea047aaa2601b51d6289fce (http://img.fanbase.com/media.fanbase.com/8/28731/9eaea5add62f787bdf54b7a4a2dc6c1c3ef16bb2.jpg?x=433&y=744&sig=50090248fea047aaa2601b51d6289fce)

[mikephoen]

That's not what I said but it is a good way to end up like Edmonton.

If you believe in the guy enough, you should pick him or someone else will.
This franchise got EXTREMELY lucky with Kiprusoff, it's hardly a model worth following. If he didn't work out, we would have a worse record with goalies than the Flyers.

The problem is you should never believe in an 18 year old goalie. They're almost always 6 to 8 years away from being a finished product.

And I'm not sure I understand your Edmonton comment. They had to do an almost infinite number of things wrong to end up where they are. Including spending a first on Dubnyk, actually getting lucky and having him develop, and then playing him behind one of the worst defensive teams in decades and giving up on him, and dumping him for nothing.

My supposition is that you ALWAYS have to get lucky to get an a star goalie. So you might as well spend your first rounders (and high second rounders) on positions that you can actually predict with some accuracy.

Look at the four goalies that played in the conference finals this year. Lundqvist 205th Overall, Bishop 85th (and traded to his current team for Cory Conacher and a 4th), Crawford 52nd overall, and Andersen 87th overall (after going undrafted in previous years).

And hey, the Flyers are in a league of their own for goalie problems. They had Bobrovsky, but dumped him for Ilya Bryzgalov! And they wasted 1st round draft picks on Jean-Marc Pelletier (http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=22104), Maxime Ouellet (http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=35723) and Adam Morrison (http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=116164) in the not so distant past as well. Great use of those firsts!

[dissentowner]

Terrible goalie, highly doubt he makes the Wild.

[polak]

Remember Justin Pogee? Or however you spelled it? Super-ultra-mega hype goalie bust.

History is full of goalies who were drafted with tons of hype who ended up not even getting a sniff of the NHL.

[Coach]

History is full of goalies who were drafted with tons of hype who ended up not even getting a sniff of the NHL.

I think these situations tend to stem from similar circumstances. They are either a) A Toronto Maple Leafs prospect/player, or B) An international goalie who played well against a Canadian team.

If the Leafs had a player like Gillies on his way, we'd never hear the end of him and he's likely end up playing this year just because. This is similarly true for Edmonton, but for different reasons. Toronto because it's the hockey epicenter of the world. Edmonton because it's the daycare epicenter of the hockey world.

[JiriHrdina]

Remember Justin Pogee? Or however you spelled it? Super-ultra-mega hype goalie bust.

History is full of goalies who were drafted with tons of hype who ended up not even getting a sniff of the NHL.

Pogge was not actually drafted with a lot of hype. 90th overall - so mid round pick. He got the hype because of who owned his rights (Leafs) and the WJs.

Goalie hype indeed goes up and down - and it is such a long development path most of it is a waste of time.

Look at Laurent Brossoit as a more recent example. Currently now being hugely over-rated by Oiler fans beacuse of one good season.

[Superfraggle]

Pogge was not actually drafted with a lot of hype. 90th overall - so mid round pick. He got the hype because of who owned his rights (Leafs) and the WJs.

Goalie hype indeed goes up and down - and it is such a long development path most of it is a waste of time.

Look at Laurent Brossoit as a more recent example. Currently now being hugely over-rated by Oiler fans beacuse of one good season.

Yup. In terms of draft position, Pogge was 8th that year. It was definitely the World Juniors that made me notice him.

Drafted ahead of Pogge that year:
Al Montoya: 6th overall
Devan Dubnyk: 14th overall
Marek Schwarz: 17th overall
Cory Schnieder: 26th overall
David Shantz: 37th overall
Justin Peters: 38th overall
Jeff Glass: 89th overall

[Fire of the Phoenix]

I just don't think you can make any rules where goalies should and shouldn't be picked in the draft. I know they are hard to predict but I would still trust my scouts if they wanted to take a goalie, regardless of draft position. It could be frustrating waiting for them to develop but you can't pass over a guy that might not be there later because 'it's too early to pick a goalie'. Mason McDonald is a good example. If we don't take him at 34, we don't get him at all and we are left choosing from the leftovers in rounds 4-7. There were plenty of people here mad that we picked a G 'early' but the fact is if you always wait until the late rounds to draft one, you'll be left wanting 95% of the time. You can't bank on getting a Lundqvist or a Rinne with your 7th rounder just because two teams got lucky. If NYR and Nashville knew how good they would become, there is no way they wait until the last round to pick them. For every Lundqvist and Rinne there are hundreds drafted that late who don't amount to anything.

That being said, I would be leery of spending a top 10 pick on one but then I think about a guy like Carey Price. Not a common occurrence to be sure, but still enough to make me think twice about making rules about where to pick goalies. Get good scouts and trust them, that's all you can do.

[GranteedEV]

Mason McDonald is a good example.

A great one.

[Oil Stain]

I think these situations tend to stem from similar circumstances. They are either a) A Toronto Maple Leafs prospect/player, or B) An international goalie who played well against a Canadian team.

If the Leafs had a player like Gillies on his way, we'd never hear the end of him and he's likely end up playing this year just because. This is similarly true for Edmonton, but for different reasons. Toronto because it's the hockey epicenter of the world. Edmonton because it's the daycare epicenter of the hockey world.

Flames fans are just as good at hyping their prospects as anyone else.

At one point the Flames had Irving and 3 other goalie prospects that were all better than Dubnyk.

In short, everyone likes their own goalie prospects. haha.

[darthma]

Pogge was not actually drafted with a lot of hype. 90th overall - so mid round pick. He got the hype because of who owned his rights (Leafs) and the WJs.

Goalie hype indeed goes up and down - and it is such a long development path most of it is a waste of time.

Look at Laurent Brossoit as a more recent example. Currently now being hugely over-rated by Oiler fans beacuse of one good season.

They traded Rask because they thought Pogge was the real deal. hehe

[DeluxeMoustache]

His game against the Canucks before Christmas in 2011 was fantastic. Quite the memory, with us beating Detroit the night before.

Many goalies can have a good game. Good to great depend on consistency, longer term effectiveness

[Jets4Life]

It's hit and miss. Rick DiPietro was one of the all-time draft busts. Same with Brian Finley, Brent Krahn, Pascal Leclaire, and Al Montoya. Then again, there have been high draft dicks that become #1 starters like Luongo, Lehtonen, Dubnyk, and Price.

Goalies are voodoo.

[dustygoon]

I think you pick a goalie where you have him rated no matter the round. My problem is the apparent approach when Irving and Macdonald were drafted. They wanted a goalie with those picks drafting for position rather than bpa.

[sureLoss]

Kevin Lalande also scores a PTO with the Wild. Need to pick up Matt Keetley and they would have the successors to Kiprusoff trio.:

Aaron Vickers @AAVickers
Former #Flames draft pick Kevin Lalande lands in Minnesota. He joins Leland Irving, another CGY pick. Both goalies. Both on PTO's.