Flames at Pride reaction

[Cole436]

I wasn't sure if I should have posted this in the off topic of the FOI forum, but I saw something today which was bothering me. I noticed today that the Flames Facebook page changed their profile picture to a rainbow version of the logo because Burke is the marshall of Gay Pride this year, and Gio, Raymond and Stajan are marching in it.

The response of comments on their social media was really mixed. With posters showing great support of the organization involving themselves, and a very large number of people against it.

Thankfully we seem to attract less mouth breathers than the normal social media sites, but I was wondering what CP's reaction is to the Flames being publicly involved and supporting Pride.

[Mony]

I adore it as a member of the LGBT community and find it's a great sign that Calgary, together with the rest of the world, is (becoming) so progressive.

Now there are always the sentiments like how the changing of the profile picture and the social media campaigns are shoving it in peoples' faces, blah blah blah, wah wah, whine whine complain. To which I always think it's nice to have representation and equality when straight people have always had it. And yeah, I understand hockey is just hockey, and those comments about how these organizations should just stick to what they're good at.

But people treat sports like religion and it bleeds into our personal lives. The Flames have been outstanding role models and I greatly appreciate it.

[Enoch Root]

Good on them

(and I'm not referring to the mouth breathers)

[StrykerSteve]

Screw the haters.

[christoph186]

A


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[GGG]

I think it's important that community leaders get out and show their support for these things. having kids idols show its okay to be gay and stand up for gay people is good.

[BlackWallStreet]

nvm

[FiveSeven]

Great thing. Sometimes a good thing is just a good thing. The Flames are a part of the community and they're role models.
What's better than showing their support of equality through action with exposure?

[Dan02]

Always interesting to see the "I'm not a homophobe but..." crowd come out. :rolleyes:

As a gay guy I think it's pretty cool, it's nice to see the Flames support the community and especially in encouraging/supporting younger players in a sport which isn't necessarily the most LGBT friendly.

[CMPunk]

Always interesting to see the "I'm not a homophobe but..." crowd come out. :rolleyes:

As a gay guy I think it's pretty cool, it's nice to see the Flames support the community and especially in encouraging/supporting younger players in a sport which isn't necessarily the most LGBT friendly.

This winter should be interesting. My hockey league has an openly gay team starting to play. We'll see how people react to it

[PugnaciousIntern]

Using internet comments as a gauge of a population's opinion is always unreliable. The idiots are always louder and more memorable than the rational people. There are a few threads on this site that I'm sure most CP members wouldn't want to be used to represent the community, and it's always because of a small fraction of posters.

I don't think this is any different. I also noticed the same idiots and was frustrated as well, but we know that these people are out there and chances are that some will be Flames fans

[the2bears]

Good for them. It's very important that people speak up about equality and fairness, while showing it with their actions.

[MrMastodonFarm]

From the FB comments

Where's my straight flag?
Cochrane native and former Brandon Wheat King Jason Swyripa. :bag:

Someone's reply.
Judging by your profile pic, rammed up your bum
:w00t:

[mikephoen]

Awesome overall, but I wish there were even more of the players there. Especially the young guys.

[GGG]

My favourite part of the Facebook comments is the flames social media guy responding to the why are the flames doing this with the straight the flames often support a variety of events in the community. Treating it as just another parade or event in the city which long term would be the goal of something like pride. When it's just another event like the lilac festival you will be getting close to acceptance.

So I like the flames social media account treating it like no big deal

[420since1974]

I fully support the Flames taking part in the Pride Parade.

[GreenLantern2814]

I really dislike the term 'corporate social responsibility', but this is exactly the sort of thing a business like the Flames should be doing. All it does is make this city a better place.

[Illuminaughty]

Always interesting to see the "I'm not a homophobe but..." crowd come out. :rolleyes:

As a gay guy I think it's pretty cool, it's nice to see the Flames support the community and especially in encouraging/supporting younger players in a sport which isn't necessarily the most LGBT friendly.

Why is it that if you have a different view, you are automatically labelled a "homophobe"? I just find it strange that a movement preaching tolerance, has zero tolerance for people with a descenting view.

For the record I don't care if the flames are marching in the pride parade, nor am I homophobe.

[ben voyonsdonc]

For the record I don't care if the flames are marching in the pride parade, nor am I homophobe.

Yet you are still posting in a thread about it.

[Illuminaughty]

Yet you are still posting in a thread about it.

So I'm not allowed to have an opinion on the subject?

[CMPunk]

So I'm not allowed to have an opinion on the subject?

Your opinion is you have no opinion?

[Barnes]

So I'm not allowed to have an opinion on the subject?

You just signed up and 100% of your posts are in this thread so, no you're not.

[DJones]

Maybe I've become enlightened but I didn't even blink when I saw it today.

Just doesn't concern me in anyway

[Illuminaughty]

Your opinion is you have no opinion?

I was just pointing out something in Dan02's post. It seems to be a sentiment shared in the GL community.

[GGG]

Why is it that if you have a different view, you are automatically labelled a "homophobe"? I just find it strange that a movement preaching tolerance, has zero tolerance for people with a descenting view.

For the record I don't care if the flames are marching in the pride parade, nor am I homophobe.

If your view is that the flames should not participate for x reason. You are likely a homophobe. Because you can't really come up with a non homophobic reason that the flames shouldn't be participating in a large community festival.

If you truly don't care that's fine but the I'm not a homophobe but the flames should stick to hockey comments are homophobic.

[AcGold]

I support gay people, not such a fan of the groupthink and vitriol that goes along with the movement. The get in line or shut the f up mentality is the way of tyrants.

Flames can do whatever they want, but so can the posters in here. Saying the Flames should stick to hockey is hardly homophobic, not that I agree with the sentiment. But still, throwing around the word homophobe at every given opportunity is a little witch hunty for my tastes.

[Illuminaughty]

You just signed up and 100% of your posts are in this thread so, no you're not.

That's not a very tolerant view.

First time poster, long time lurker.

I prefer to read about hockey on this forum, not beaten to death social issues. I was bored so I opened the thread, it probably would be better off in the off topic forum IMO.

[Illuminaughty]

If your view is that the flames should not participate for x reason. You are likely a homophobe. Because you can't really come up with a non homophobic reason that the flames shouldn't be participating in a large community festival.

If you truly don't care that's fine but the I'm not a homophobe but the flames should stick to hockey comments are homophobic.

I think there is more of a grey area to this issue then what you are stating. What if you just don't care either way and are tired of hearing about this played out issue?

[Barnes]

I think there is more of a grey area to this issue then what you are stating. What if you just don't care either way and are tired of hearing about this played out issue?

Don't concentrate 100% of your posts in a thread about it?

[GullFoss]

I think its great that the flames are supporting this as an organization. And as long as players arent being pressured or forced to drive a bus in the parade its win-win.

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[Peanut]

That's not a very tolerant view.

First time poster, long time lurker.

I prefer to read about hockey on this forum, not beaten to death social issues. I was bored so I opened the thread, it probably would be better off in the off topic forum IMO.

Bored so you opened the thread, eh. And then so, so bored you decided to sign up and post exclusively in here. Yeah ok. :rolleyes: "why am i not allowed to have a dissenting opinion?". Because society doesn't have to be tolerant of your intolerant opinion that supports continuing inequality and discrimination towards a minority group.

And for the record I think the Flames participating in Pride is great. I'll be heading down with my family too. It's a fun event.

[codynw]

I think there is more of a grey area to this issue then what you are stating. What if you just don't care either way and are tired of hearing about this played out issue?

So can someone just ban this poster now? I mean, it's probably inevitable. Might as well get it over with.

[Vulcan]

That's not a very tolerant view.

First time poster, long time lurker.

I prefer to read about hockey on this forum, not beaten to death social issues. I was bored so I opened the thread, it probably would be better off in the off topic forum IMO.

Any of the threads here on Calpuck can be opened or not. If I prefer reading about something else, I don't open the thread.

[Illuminaughty]

Don't concentrate 100% of your posts in a thread about it?

Everybody has to have a first post sometime bro. But totally read into it

[Illuminaughty]

Bored so you opened the thread, eh. And then so, so bored you decided to sign up and post exclusively in here. Yeah ok. :rolleyes: "why am i not allowed to have a dissenting opinion?". Because society doesn't have to be tolerant of your intolerant opinion that supports continuing inequality and discrimination towards a minority group.

And for the record I think the Flames participating in Pride is great. I'll be heading down with my family too. It's a fun event.

I signed up weeks ago.

Who's discriminating?

[GGG]

I think there is more of a grey area to this issue then what you are stating. What if you just don't care either way and are tired of hearing about this played out issue?

So what is the "x" reason that the flames shouldn't participate that isn't homophobic?

[BigFlameDog]

Maybe I've become enlightened but I didn't even blink when I saw it today.

Just doesn't concern me in anyway

Yeah same here.....will be great when it is just normal sauce for everyone.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think it's great. In fact, I would like to see more players participate.

The LGBT community is susceptible to harassment, bullying, and is still fighting for equality in many areas. The more high profile proud supporters there are, the better.

I think with sports especially since many of them have a history of having homophobic atmospheres, the athletes probably have a lot of influence on the young people still growing into their skin.

[GGG]

I support gay people, not such a fan of the groupthink and vitriol that goes along with the movement. The get in line or shut the f up mentality is the way of tyrants.

Flames can do whatever they want, but so can the posters in here. Saying the Flames should stick to hockey is hardly homophobic, not that I agree with the sentiment. But still, throwing around the word homophobe at every given opportunity is a little witch hunty for my tastes.

Stick to hockey is coded language though.

Because I assume the same people would have no problem with the flames coming out for the stampede parade.

Or any other community involvement like the flames foundation. It's only this community involvement that they should stick to hockey

[the2bears]

Why is it that if you have a different view, you are automatically labelled a "homophobe"? I just find it strange that a movement preaching tolerance, has zero tolerance for people with a descenting view.

For the record I don't care if the flames are marching in the pride parade, nor am I homophobe.

This sounds like you're complaining about intolerance of intolerance. Sounds pretty stupid.

[MRCboicgy]

Why is there an MS walk?
Why is there a Dog Jog for the Humane society?

Couldn't we just all send our cheques to the organizations we choose, instead of there being a public display of support?

[Illuminaughty]

This sounds like you're complaining about intolerance of intolerance. Sounds pretty stupid.

More complaining about the, if you are not with us, you are against us ideology, and the witch hunt that inevitably ensues.

[The Yen Man]

I support gay people, not such a fan of the groupthink and vitriol that goes along with the movement. The get in line or shut the f up mentality is the way of tyrants.

Flames can do whatever they want, but so can the posters in here. Saying the Flames should stick to hockey is hardly homophobic, not that I agree with the sentiment. But still, throwing around the word homophobe at every given opportunity is a little witch hunty for my tastes.

If the Flames participated in a march for cancer or MS awareness, and people tell them to stick to hockey, what type of reactions should those people (deservedly) get from the general public?

[Illuminaughty]

So what is the "x" reason that the flames shouldn't participate that isn't homophobic?

If they chose not to march would that be considered homophobic?

That might be enough of a reason to march, to avoid issues of controversy.

[Jbo]

If they chose not to march would that be considered homophobic?

That might be enough of a reason to march, to avoid issues of controversy.

For someone that only wants to talk about hockey, you sure are avoiding the other threads that talk about hockey.

[the2bears]

More complaining about the, if you are not with us, you are against us ideology, and the witch hunt that inevitably ensues.

Have fun being a victim.

[Illuminaughty]

If the Flames participated in a march for cancer or MS awareness, and people tell them to stick to hockey, what type of reactions should those people (deservedly) get from the general public?


Do you let everything the flames do or don't do effect your social views? I personally support the flames as a hockey franchise and love the great charity work they do in the community. I don't go reading into them having an issue with something based off of non-participation.

[N-E-B]

I think the Flames participating is great. I'm not gay but I'm a big believer in LGBT equality and showing support for that community. Everyone should feel welcome to be a part of the Flames family.

[The Yen Man]

Do you let everything the flames do or don't do effect your social views? I personally support the flames as a hockey franchise and love the great charity work they do in the community. I don't go reading into them having an issue with something based off of non-participation.

Huh? My comment was aimed at the people who have issues with the Flames participating in the parade. Not sure I understand what point you're trying to make.

[Illuminaughty]

For someone that only wants to talk about hockey, you sure are avoiding the other threads that talk about hockey.

I'm just defending my previous comments.

The reason I haven't posted before this thread, has mostly to do with the fact that CP has for the most part knowledgeable forum members whose points I agree with, instead of rehashing something that someone has already said (and in all likelihood articulated better than I could), I choose not to bother posting.

[EldrickOnIce]

Huh? My comment was aimed at the people who have issues with the Flames participating in the parade. Not sure I understand what point you're trying to make.
But why would anyone have any issue with their participation?
As has been said, when it's a non issue, that's when things have gotten to where they should be.
And in my mind, it's entirely a non issue.

[KelVarnsen]

This is going well.

[ben voyonsdonc]

So I'm not allowed to have an opinion on the subject?Of course you are. Just don't pretend that you don't care about them marching because clearly you do. Were you posting about them when they marched in the Stampede parade? You are tightrope walking along the "I'm not a homophobe but..." territory.

[Illuminaughty]

Have fun being a victim.

I can't, goes against my Libertarian ideals.

[Illuminaughty]

Of course you are. Just don't pretend that you don't care about them marching because clearly you do. Were you posting about them when they marched in the Stampede parade? You are tightrope walking along the "I'm not a homophobe but..." territory.

Honestly, if they marched or not, doesn't bother me, it's not going to effect my day to day. I do think that the flames should just stick to hockey, but I also understand the complexities of the modern day society and the optics involved.

I was just trying to make a point, sorry if I offended anyone.

[driveway]

Why is it that if you have a different view, you are automatically labelled a "homophobe"? I just find it strange that a movement preaching tolerance, has zero tolerance for people with a descenting view.



For the record I don't care if the flames are marching in the pride parade, nor am I homophobe.


Because, in this case the 'different view' is homophobic.

Also, you don't get to decide if you're a homophobe: your words and actions speak for themselves and then other people get to make that determination.

[codynw]

Of course you are. Just don't pretend that you don't care about them marching because clearly you do. Were you posting about them when they marched in the Stampede parade? You are tightrope walking along the "I'm not a homophobe but..." territory.

Don't worry they probably have a gay friend so it's totally fine.

[EldrickOnIce]

Honestly, if they marched or not, doesn't bother me, it's not going to effect my day to day. I do think that the flames should just stick to hockey, but I also understand the complexities of the modern day society and the optics involved.

I was just trying to make a point, sorry if I offended anyone.
So you don't think Joe should make the trip out to High River to see the girl with leukemia on her birthday?
He should be taking shots against the garage door instead, and sticking to hockey?
One can't say they appreciate everything the Flames do in the community, like you said, and then say they should stick to hockey.

[undercoverbrother]

So you don't think Joe should make the trip out to High River to see the girl with leukemia on her birthday?
He should be taking shots against the garage door instead, and sticking to hockey?
One can't say they appreciate everything the Flames do in the community, like you said, and then say they should stick to hockey.



One type of person can.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Honestly, if they marched or not, doesn't bother me, it's not going to effect my day to day. I do think that the flames should just stick to hockey, but I also understand the complexities of the modern day society and the optics involved.

I was just trying to make a point, sorry if I offended anyone.
I don't think you pick up the contradiction in the first two sentences. If you don't care, why do you think they should stick to hockey? What about the other non hockey things that they do (ie other parades, commercials, etc)? Should they stop doing those too? Or is it only this parade that bothers you? If it is, maybe you are homophobic (possibly without realizing it). There are lots of people on this board who felt that way at one point and have evolved with time and now are fully supportive.

[smiggy77]

I don't think you pick up the contradiction in the first two sentences. If you don't care, why do you think they should stick to hockey? What about the other non hockey things that they do (ie other parades, commercials, etc)? Should they stop doing those too? Or is it only this parade that bothers you? If it is, maybe you are homophobic (possibly without realizing it). There are lots of people on this board who felt that way at one point and have evolved with time and now are fully supportive.

I sat here for 10 min trying to draft up a response and then finally read this and realized you got it bang on. Lets not do any commercials, interviews, charities, cuz it isn't hockey.

[Illuminaughty]

So you don't think Joe should make the trip out to High River to see the girl with leukemia on her birthday?
He should be taking shots against the garage door instead, and sticking to hockey?
One can't say they appreciate everything the Flames do in the community, like you said, and then say they should stick to hockey.

I applaud the flames on their charity work. I think visiting a sick kid and marching in a gay pride parade are two different things.

[mesaywee]

Something fun that I've taken up on the Calgary Flames facebook page is to click on the profiles of the people making thinly veiled bigoted remarks like "flames should just stick to hockey" or the outright bigots and bet if they're ugly white people or not.

Seriously, try it. Click on the profiles of the people and you'll notice almost every single one is an overweight or straight up awkward looking white person. I wonder what the correlation is, maybe educated people who take care of themselves are more likely to support a cause like this one.

[the2bears]

I applaud the flames on their charity work. I think visiting a sick kid and marching in a gay pride parade are two different things.

Finally you've nailed it. One thing bothers you, the other does not.

Which, by the way, is not very libertarian.

[ben voyonsdonc]

I applaud the flames on their charity work. I think visiting a sick kid and marching in a gay pride parade are two different things.
How so? LGBT youth are some of the most at risk kids out there. To see their heroes supporting them is pretty special...it would have meant the world to me when I was a closeted teenager.

[Illuminaughty]

I think building your brand i.e. (interviews and commercials), charity edeavours and marching in a gay pride parade are different things. Leave social issues to politicians, isn't that why we elect them?

Let a sports team be just that, a sports team. People shouldn't be reading in to things that are non issues, like marching or not.

[Hells Bells]

I also see a difference between working with sick kids and marching in a gay/lesbian parade. Not that I have any issues with either.

If that makes me a homophobe to some of you for seeing a difference, so be it. I'm actually not at all though.

[ben voyonsdonc]

The Flames marching in the Pride Parade actually helps people. How did marching in the Stampede Parade help anyone? Did anyone complain about them marching in that parade?

[Hells Bells]

There is nothing wrong with marching in the parade. Nothing at all.

But to compare it to charity work for fatal illnesses is a bit much IMO.

This is more comparable to supporting race equality, gender equality etc... very important just the same, but let's not act like people are dying from it... sure, they face many obstacles, but whether they will live to see tomorrow is not one of them.

[the2bears]

There is nothing wrong with marching in the parade. Nothing at all.

But to compare it to charity work for fatal illnesses is a bit much IMO.


Both are about helping people, though. You've got fatal illnesses, groups that are high risk for suicide, etc. It's simply about helping people.

[Hells Bells]

Both are about helping people, though. You've got fatal illnesses, groups that are high risk for suicide, etc. It's simply about helping people.

And I agree about helping people.

I just can't lump that kind of help in with dying children though.

Suicide is something universal, it's not only gays/lesbians. Only people with cancer can die from cancer.

[Illuminaughty]

Finally you've nailed it. One thing bothers you, the other does not.

Which, by the way, is not very libertarian.

As I've stated previously, I don't care if they march or don't march, the thing that I take issue with is, that this is still a hot button issue that garners so much attention. People are gay, cool, lets move on and tackle some other more pending issues like the economy or what to do about Fukushima, and not worry about what parades local sports teams chose to participate in.

I was just suggesting that calling someone a homophobe that doesn't agree with the flames marching in the parade, isn't necessarily true and not very tolerant.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Homophobia kills

Here are some stats:

LGBT youth are more than twice as likely to experiment with drugs and alcohol.

Only 37% of LGBT youth report being happy and satisfied with their life. However, more than 80% of LGBT youth believe they will eventually be happy, with nearly half believing that they will need to move away from their neighborhood in order to find happiness.

With every verbal and/or physical harassment, the risk of self-injury among LGBT youth is 2 ½ times more likely.

LGBT youth are 4 times more likely to have suicide ideations than their non-LGBT counterparts.

[Hells Bells]

Homophobia kills

Here are some stats:

LGBT youth are more than twice as likely to experiment with drugs and alcohol.

Only 37% of LGBT youth report being happy and satisfied with their life. However, more than 80% of LGBT youth believe they will eventually be happy, with nearly half believing that they will need to move away from their neighborhood in order to find happiness.

With every verbal and/or physical harassment, the risk of self-injury among LGBT youth is 2 ½ times more likely.

LGBT youth are 4 times more likely to have suicide ideations than their non-LGBT counterparts.

I'm not saying the Flames shouldn't show their support.

I'm saying let's not act like this is in any way the same as visiting sick kids. That's all.

[ben voyonsdonc]

By marching, the Flames are telling kids that it really is ok to be gay and that bullying is not acceptable. To me, that is a huge community service.

[ben voyonsdonc]

I'm not saying the Flames shouldn't show their support.

I'm saying let's not act like this is in any way the same as visiting sick kids. That's all.

It is still a community service.

[Hells Bells]

By marching, the Flames are telling kids that it really is ok to be gay and that bullying is not acceptable. To me, that is a huge community service.

The Flames aren't telling kids they visit that it's okay they're sick and dying. Two completely different things.

One group needs support and be told it's okay to be the way they are... the other needs a lot more than that. They need organs or sometimes a miracle to even live another month. Nothing a hockey player tells them will cure them. Sure, it will brighten their day but that's all it can do besides raise awareness.

So what I'm saying is that the players can actually do more for the gay/lesbian community. Again, I agree with them marching, just don't agree with the comparison.

[the2bears]

As I've stated previously, I don't care if they march or don't march, the thing that I take issue with is, that this is still a hot button issue that garners so much attention. People are gay, cool, lets move on and tackle some other more pending issues like the economy or what to do about Fukushima, and not worry about what parades local sports teams chose to participate in.

I was just suggesting that calling someone a homophobe that doesn't agree with the flames marching in the parade, isn't necessarily true and not very tolerant.

Doing one doesn't preclude doing the other. In no way does marching in the parade hinder the "pending issue" of the economy.

And, simply put, just because you think it's something to move on from doesn't make it so. Some people say the same about race relations. You don't get to decide when the issue's no longer an issue.

[ben voyonsdonc]

The comparison was based on the fact that the common argument against marching that the Flames should simply stick to hockey. If that was the case, the Flames, as an organization, shouldn't be going to visit sick kids, march in the Stampede Parade, or do commercials. I think that comparison is pretty valid.

[Illuminaughty]

The comparison was based on the fact that the common argument against marching that the Flames should simply stick to hockey. If that was the case, the Flames, as an organization, shouldn't be going to visit sick kids, march in the Stampede Parade, or do commercials. I think that comparison is pretty valid.

It's not a valid comparison.

If the flames didn't march in any parade it wouldn't change my opinion of the organization. If they stopped doing all the charity work it would.

[ben voyonsdonc]

It's not a valid comparison.

If the flames didn't march in any parade it wouldn't change my opinion of the organization. If they stopped doing all the charity work it would.

But you said they should stick to hockey. In that case, would the charity work be something like letting the Oilers win a game or two? Last time I checked, charity work is not done on the ice.

[Illuminaughty]

Doing one doesn't preclude doing the other. In no way does marching in the parade hinder the "pending issue" of the economy.

And, simply put, just because you think it's something to move on from doesn't make it so. Some people say the same about race relations. You don't get to decide when the issue's no longer an issue.

And neither do you.

I could sit here and try to explain the concept of political misdirection to you and the use of divisive issues to clog the public dialogue, but i fear it would be an exercise of futility.

[Roast Beef]

It's not a valid comparison.

If the flames didn't march in any parade it wouldn't change my opinion of the organization. If they stopped doing all the charity work it would.

https://i.imgur.com/Esn6dXv.gif

[oldschoolcalgary]

I think its great that some of the players are joining the parade.

just because they are hockey players doesn't mean they should not support the causes they believe in.

[ben voyonsdonc]

As an addition to my last post: marching in the Pride Parade is one part of the Flames charitable work. Under Burke, the Flames have made supporting the LGBT community a huge part of their charitable mandate. If they stopped doing it, the LGBT community would be hurt. It may not change your opinion of the Flames but it would change many other peoples' opinion of them.

[the2bears]

[/B]

And neither do you.

I could sit here and try to explain the concept of political misdirection to you and the use of divisive issues to clog the public dialogue, but i fear it would be an exercise of futility.

Of course not, and I wasn't trying to.

[mesaywee]

[/B]

And neither do you.

I could sit here and try to explain the concept of political misdirection to you and the use of divisive issues to clog the public dialogue, but i fear it would be an exercise of futility.

Dude give up, any reasonable person reading your arguments are rolling their eyes.

[PepsiFree]

[/B]



And neither do you.



I could sit here and try to explain the concept of political misdirection to you and the use of divisive issues to clog the public dialogue, but i fear it would be an exercise of futility.


You think the Flames should stick to hockey, but it'd bother you if they stopped doing charity work.

You couldn't care less about this issue, but you've spent more time on this issue in this thread than most other individuals here.

You talk about what you could do, without any intention of doing it.

Your problem seems to be clarity. Keep it simple.

[Kidder]

Thank you to Hells Bells for clarifying your viewpoint.

But please don't gloss over the statistics Ben V presented on GLBT suicide. They are significant.

These are children that need help and a simple act like the Calgary Flames marching in the pride parade does make a difference.

So to posters like Illuminaughty who say they don't really care... But...

That's fine, no need to care, but leave out the "buts."

Cause the Flames are sending out a message of acceptance to kids who need it.

It's also promoting discussion, which leads to conversations like this one, which hopefully breeds further understanding.

Its easy to ignore a parade if it holds no interest to you. Just don't go. It's also easy to ignore a rainbow picture if it's not congruent with your beliefs. Just scroll on by.

But it's not easy to ignore homophobic slurs, disparaging remarks or various forms of harassment that homosexuals have had to endure in our society for high time, especially in the world of sport.

So good on yah Brian Burke and the Calgary Flames!

From a proud Calgarian and Flames fan.

[Camronius]

Dude give up, any reasonable person reading your arguments are rolling their eyes.

Quite the opposite in fact. Watching a witch hunt occur for simply questioning or having a dissenting opinion is more or less proving their point.

For what it's worth, I support having the flames march in the parade. However I also agree with a lot of what this poster is saying.

My eye rolling occurred from yours and many other poster's responses.

I've witnessed accusations of being a homophobe, to being an ugly white person, to being unreasonable for almost no reason.

[PepsiFree]

All that aside, I think it's great.

Shows support for an issue that impacts many of us in some way or another. Doesn't matter what the issue is or the politics behind it, it's just nice to see the Flames be a part of the community every chance they get.

I never paid much attention to the "where's MY parade" crowd. It's kind of like if a healthy person balked at a Cancer run and said "well where's the run for people WITHOUT Cancer?". No one would be so dumb though :)

[Illuminaughty]

But you said they should stick to hockey. In that case, would the charity work be something like letting the Oilers win a game or two? Last time I checked, charity work is not done on the ice.


I see charity work and marching in a parade as two different things. Yes they both effect the community but in different ways.

So for every rally that goes on in Calgary the flames have to show support for, to give back to the community?

[Illuminaughty]

Quite the opposite in fact. Watching a witch hunt occur for simply questioning or having a dissenting opinion is more or less proving their point.

For what it's worth, I support having the flames march in the parade. However I also agree with a lot of what this poster is saying.

My eye rolling occurred from yours and many other poster's responses.

I've witnessed accusations of being a homophobe, to being an ugly white person, to being unreasonable for almost no reason.

Thank you. I thought a forum was a platform for discussion, if everyone just agrees on everything why bother. If I could go back I wouldn't make my initial point that started this, why open the can worms and deal with the fallout? When I could just acquiesce and hold my thoughts to myself, tough to solve any issues that way though.....

[AcGold]

If the Flames participated in a march for cancer or MS awareness, and people tell them to stick to hockey, what type of reactions should those people (deservedly) get from the general public?
Depends what you mean by general public. As a rational person I could see someone's point that they really like the Flames and that the person feels the Flames should focus on practicing and staying in shape so we can win a championship one day.

A thought process based on a love for hockey. Being the "politically correct" society we are in today the vitriol would surely fly as no fake moralist can resist the chance to spew hate, to testify to the world, look at me! look how superior my morals are!! This person does not agree!!!

Without for one second thinking, hey maybe they don't hate people with cancer, maybe they just like hockey to a fault. But then again such a conclusion would require logic.

[Kidder]

Illuminaughty. I went back to reread your original and subsequent posts.

Your original point had some validity. I'll concede the homophobe and bigot label gets tossed around quite liberally and often too soon.

I think the point was a bit of a tangent to the purpose of the thread, and that's what's caused some vitriol to be thrown your way.

I'm not sure if you're homophobic. I certainly wouldnt label you a homophobe based on what you've said to this point in the thread. But I hope you've taken this discussion as an opportunity to learn about why this is important to a faction of our society, and deserves respect.

Studies have shown GLBT youth are 3-4 times as likely to attempt suicide.

Gay posters here have shared that having Flames participate in a parade like this makes a difference to themselves and other members in the community, of which I share and agree.

Therefore if you can acknowledge those two points and agree it might be beneficial that the Flames do participate in this parade, it would likely dispel any wrongful attacks you may feel are directed toward you.

[thefoss1957]

Inclusiveness is in the marketing plan of all well run franchises...so, it is a good business decision for our teams (the Blackhawks have been involved in supporting Chicagoland LBGT groups, much as the Flames have now done in Calgary)...IIRC, Sopel took the Cup to the Pride Parade a couple years ago, and I believe the 'Hawks have taken the Cup and a couple of players to the Parade each time after winning after that

[Kidder]

Yes I don't think there are any real homophobic remarks in this thread, mostly just questions about why challenging/disagreeing with viewpoints of the pro-gay crowd gets one instantly labeled homophobic.

To that I'd pose that the subject of homosexuality is usually quite polarizing. And for those that are truly indifferent, well they usually display that apathy by not joining the discussion at all.

So when someone comes in with an alternative opinion it's taken as an afront, rightly or wrongly.

Just keep in mind actual people are suffering and dying from the hurtful words from those who don't understand and belittle their plight. So hopefully you can forgive when one is short on patience and quick to label.

[Makarov]

Depends what you mean by general public. As a rational person I could see someone's point that they really like the Flames and that the person feels the Flames should focus on practicing and staying in shape so we can win a championship one day.

A thought process based on a love for hockey. Being the "politically correct" society we are in today the vitriol would surely fly as no fake moralist can resist the chance to spew hate, to testify to the world, look at me! look how superior my morals are!! This person does not agree!!!

Without for one second thinking, hey maybe they don't hate people with cancer, maybe they just like hockey to a fault. But then again such a conclusion would require logic.

Ok... But it's curious how the "Flames should just stick to playing hockey" posts never seem to appear in threads about Flames players supporting cancer organizations in the city. It's curious indeed.

[Makarov]

Thank you. I thought a forum was a platform for discussion, if everyone just agrees on everything why bother. If I could go back I wouldn't make my initial point that started this, why open the can worms and deal with the fallout? When I could just acquiesce and hold my thoughts to myself, tough to solve any issues that way though.....

Isn't that precisely what happened? You posted your opinion and a lot of posters disagreed with you. It's not like the moderators banned you for posting against the grain.

And if you're having difficulty defending your position (to the extent that you wish you hadn't posted it at all), perhaps it's time to reconsider your position. In fact, it seems to me that this sort of discourse and process is exactly how society should solve its issues (marketplace of ideas and all that).

[Makarov]

I see charity work and marching in a parade as two different things. Yes they both effect the community but in different ways.

So for every rally that goes on in Calgary the flames have to show support for, to give back to the community?

Or, alternatively, perhaps the Flames could just prioritize supporting the organizations etc that they feel are most important? Like every other person and organization?

[FlamesAddiction]

I do agree with the one poster that said they don't even look twice at this sort of thing anymore. It's become normal now for NHL players to show support for this cause, which can only be seen as a positive. The first few times it happened, it seemed radical in a lot of ways, but now it is a regular and anticipated part of the Flames being in the community..

The players that volunteer for it still deserve credit for it of course.

[Illuminaughty]

Illuminaughty. I went back to reread your original and subsequent posts.

Your original point had some validity. I'll concede the homophobe and bigot label gets tossed around quite liberally and often too soon.

I think the point was a bit of a tangent to the purpose of the thread, and that's what's caused some vitriol to be thrown your way.

I'm not sure if you're homophobic. I certainly wouldnt label you a homophobe based on what you've said to this point in the thread. But I hope you've taken this discussion as an opportunity to learn about why this is important to a faction of our society, and deserves respect.

Studies have shown GLBT youth are 3-4 times as likely to attempt suicide.

Gay posters here have shared that having Flames participate in a parade like this makes a difference to themselves and other members in the community, of which I share and agree.

Therefore if you can acknowledge those two points and agree it might be beneficial that the Flames do participate in this parade, it would likely dispel any wrongful attacks you may feel are directed toward you.

I agree, the struggle is real for GLBT people. But how can we get to a point of universal acceptance within a society of the GLBT community, when any form of discussion against, immediately brands you as a homophobe. That's the same logic that oppressed these people in the past, and is very hypocritical of supposedly tolerant progressive forward thinking people.

[RougeUnderoos]

Depends what you mean by general public. As a rational person I could see someone's point that they really like the Flames and that the person feels the Flames should focus on practicing and staying in shape so we can win a championship one day.


Yes, this is quite rational. I'm a rational person. I really like the Flames and I feel they should focus on practicing and staying in shape so they can win a championship one day.

That's why when I saw a Flames player at the Audi dealership getting his winter tires put on I thought "hey, he should be focused on practicing and staying in shape! What's he doing here getting his winter tires put on?". I didn't say anything, but I wanted to.

Then in mid-December, I saw another member of the team carrying shopping bags on 8th Ave. He had a lot of them too. No idea what he was going to do with all that stuff, but whatever.

My point (and I believe your point too) is that it's perfectly rational as a Flames fan to believe that they should at all times be focused on practicing, staying in shape, and winning championships. I have nothing against winter tires or December shopping.

[undercoverbrother]

I agree, the struggle is real for GLBT people. But how can we get to a point of universal acceptance within a society of the GLBT community, when any form of discussion against, immediately brands you as a homophobe. That's the same logic that oppressed these people in the past, and is very hypocritical of supposedly tolerant progressive forward thinking people.

"Discussion against"


Against what?

Equality, basic Human Rights?

[Illuminaughty]

Isn't that precisely what happened? You posted your opinion and a lot of posters disagreed with you. It's not like the moderators banned you for posting against the grain.

And if you're having difficulty defending your position (to the extent that you wish you hadn't posted it at all), perhaps it's time to reconsider your position. In fact, it seems to me that this sort of discourse and process is exactly how society should solve its issues (marketplace of ideas and all that).

I feel I've defended my position adequately. Why would I reconsider when most of the people that had a problem with what I initially stated, ended up proving my statement correct, with all the vitriolic remarks.

I should be making better use of my time in hindsight though, for what its worth.

[Illuminaughty]

"Discussion against"


Against what?

Equality, basic Human Rights?


That if you have a problem with the flames marching in the gay pride parade, it is solely because you are a homophobe.

[combustiblefuel]

I think its great the that High profile sport players like the Flames support the LGBT community. Kida growing into the skin appreciate seeing high profile community members support them. The LGBT community hasnt always had this kind of support . In the majority. Of the World they still a persecuted (Killed,beaten, thrown in jail).Who knows maybe there is a young or even older Flames fan somewhere in one of those countries like Russia who logs on to Flames.com. and sees they are supporting Pride. It's not just a local community thing anymore with how ingrained the internet has become in our lives.

[undercoverbrother]

That if you have a problem with the flames marching in the gay pride parade, it is solely because you are a homophobe.

But I don't think you have stated, in a pointed sentence, why you are against it.

Perhaps you can distill it down to a 1 or 2 sentence reason.

[Timbo]

Good for the Flames. I fully support their involvement and participation.

[Red Potato Standing By]

That if you have a problem with the flames marching in the gay pride parade, it is solely because you are a homophobe.

What other reason would there be?

[dino7c]

good for the organization to be involved...players should make their own decisions to attend

I have zero problem with the parade itself but I personally won't be attending and certainly wouldn't bring my kids...too many assless chaps and g-strigs gay or not

honestly they should drop the nudity and obscene outfits if they want the general public involved...I couldn't walk down the street naked any other day of the year

[the2bears]

I feel I've defended my position adequately. Why would I reconsider when most of the people that had a problem with what I initially stated, ended up proving my statement correct, with all the vitriolic remarks.

I should be making better use of my time in hindsight though, for what its worth.

If you think this thread, which has been pretty tame, is "vitriol", then you're confused by the word. If this is a "witch hunt", as has been mentioned, then what would real oppression be called?

[Illuminaughty]

But I don't think you have stated, in a pointed sentence, why you are against it.

Perhaps you can distill it down to a 1 or 2 sentence reason.

I'm not against them marching or not marching in the parade, it's irrelevant to me. I'm against the assumption and narrow thinking that if your against them marching, you are automatically branded a homophobe. It's not that cut and dry to me.

[dino7c]

I'm not against them marching or not marching in the parade, it's irrelevant to me. I'm against the assumption and narrow thinking that if your against them marching, you are automatically branded a homophobe. It's not that cut and dry to me.

I know a openly gay man that hates the pride parade because of the stereotype's it reinforces with many of the participants outfits ect.

I suppose he is a gay homophobe?

[FlamesFanInEdmonton]

I'm all for the Flames participating in any community event. Maybe I'm a little old school or something but to be honest I don't understand these parades...admittedly perhaps that's because I'm not gay. For the record, I don't care what someone's sexual orientation is. I'm all for the freedom to be who you want to be in this world as long as it doesn't hurt other people. I guess my thinking is, in holding a parade like this is it not accomplishing the exact opposite of what the parade is for? It's almost like trying to segregate yourself from the rest of the community. To me it says "hey look at us...we're different"...when I think the message should be you're not different at all. There is nothing abnormal about it. Your gay. I'm straight. So what? We are all still people.

[Illuminaughty]

If you think this thread, which has been pretty tame, is "vitriol", then you're confused by the word. If this is a "witch hunt", as has been mentioned, then what would real oppression be called?

Vitriol was a word other posters had used in the thread, maybe not the best choice of words I could have used, sure. Why are you asking me about oppression? I'm a Libertarian remember. I try not to take people too seriously, especially on the internet. :)

[Street Pharmacist]

I'm all for the Flames participating in any community event. Maybe I'm a little old school or something but to be honest I don't understand these parades...admittedly perhaps that's because I'm not gay. For the record, I don't care what someone's sexual orientation is. I'm all for the freedom to be who you want to be in this world as long as it doesn't hurt other people. I guess my thinking is, in holding a parade like this is it not accomplishing the exact opposite of what the parade is for? It's almost like trying to segregate yourself from the rest of the community. To me it says "hey look at us...we're different"...when I think the message should be you're not different at all. There is nothing abnormal about it. Your gay. I'm straight. So what? We are all still people.
For marginalized groups, solidarity and community displays reinforces their sense of belonging.

It's still not "normal" to be gay in lots of places. At least not yet

[Illuminaughty]

I know a openly gay man that hates the pride parade because of the stereotype's it reinforces with many of the participants outfits ect.

I suppose he is a gay homophobe?

Well he does fit the one point of criteria, previously defined in this thread as solely being homophobic.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Yeah if it was normal there wouldn't be these discussions.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Yeah if it was normal there wouldn't be these discussions.

Being gay isn't "normal"?

Think you're confusing normalcy with acceptance.

[dino7c]

Well he does fit the one point of criteria, previously defined in this thread as solely being homophobic.

If there was a biker parade where the men wore g-strings or less and the women were topless I wouldn't be taking my kids to that either.

Daytona bike week?

[FlamesFanInEdmonton]

Yeah if it was normal there wouldn't be these discussions.

Seems normal enough to me

[Illuminaughty]

If there was a biker parade where the men wore g-strings or less and the women were topless I wouldn't be taking my kids to that either.

Daytona bike week?

Yeah, but apparently if you don't attend or march in the parade, you don't support the movement, and are in all likelihood a homophobe.

[ResAlien]

I'm glad they were in it, support it, and hope they continue to do so every year. I'm not sure why anyone would have an issue with this event specifically but not with any other event or cause the team attends and supports. Wheird how that works.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Being gay isn't "normal"?

Think you're confusing normalcy with acceptance.

Yeah re-reading it, it didn't come out the way I intended it

[MrMastodonFarm]

Yeah, but apparently if you don't attend or march in the parade, you don't support the movement, and are in all likelihood a homophobe.

How desperate are you to play the victim?

[Street Pharmacist]

Being gay isn't "normal"?

Think you're confusing normalcy with acceptance.
That could be directed at me too, and you'd be right

[Illuminaughty]

How desperate are you to play the victim?

Super desperate apparently.

[GGG]

That if you have a problem with the flames marching in the gay pride parade, it is solely because you are a homophobe.

I don't think anyone has said you are homophobic if you oppose the flames marching. People including myself have said it's very likely that you are because we can't think of reasons that you could be against the flames marching in it that aren't homophobic.

So far no reasons have been given that aren't homophobic. I'm still waiting.

We have one reason that one might be against the parade in general but still nothing outside of the stick to hockey to oppose the flames marching in it.

You've taken an odd position in this discussion in saying not everyone that is opposed is homophobic but failing to provide any examples to support your position

[dino7c]

I'm glad they were in it, support it, and hope they continue to do so every year. I'm not sure why anyone would have an issue with this event specifically but not with any other event or cause the team attends and supports. Wheird how that works.

10% of their customers are gay so as a business it makes perfect sense...as a fan really it shouldn't matter

I do think people are pretty quick to jump to the whole homophone thing though

beyond the sexual orientation aspect there are lots of things not to like about the pride parade (for me anyway) again it has nothing to do with them being gay.

If I walked down the street naked I would be arrested not given a high five by police officers (there maybe be some pointing and laughing)

[PepsiFree]

I'm all for the Flames participating in any community event. Maybe I'm a little old school or something but to be honest I don't understand these parades...admittedly perhaps that's because I'm not gay. For the record, I don't care what someone's sexual orientation is. I'm all for the freedom to be who you want to be in this world as long as it doesn't hurt other people. I guess my thinking is, in holding a parade like this is it not accomplishing the exact opposite of what the parade is for? It's almost like trying to segregate yourself from the rest of the community. To me it says "hey look at us...we're different"...when I think the message should be you're not different at all. There is nothing abnormal about it. Your gay. I'm straight. So what? We are all still people.


The difference is that it's been ok to be straight for pretty much ever but not ok to be gay.

It's not "hey look at us, we're different" it's "hey look at us, we don't have to hide (and neither do you)". It's about celebrating who you are even in a scenario where who you are isn't the most accepted.

Society has come a long way, but it's not yet at a point where you can just give up the push just because some folks have gone from the "ew gross" phase to the "fine but I don't want to see it paraded around" phase.

[PepsiFree]

If I walked down the street naked I would be arrested not given a high five by police officers (there maybe be some pointing and laughing)


If you want to walk down the street scantily clad in the parade, I think you could.

It's not like a gay person can just randomly walk down the street naked either.

Try it! It's fully inclusive :)

[MrMastodonFarm]

If I walked down the street naked I would be arrested not given a high five by police officers (there maybe be some pointing and laughing)
Who is naked? I see more slut costumes at Stampede and Halloween than anything.

Besides how much of Pride is even like that anymore? It seems much more bland and boring then fabulous. And besides, all the glamour and craziness was a reaction by Parade walkers from bring spat on, protested, yelled at, have dogs brought to scare them etc. Atleast in Calgary.

[RougeUnderoos]

10% of their customers are gay so as a business it makes perfect sense...as a fan really it shouldn't matter

I do think people are pretty quick to jump to the whole homophone thing though

beyond the sexual orientation aspect there are lots of things not to like about the pride parade (for me anyway) again it has nothing to do with them being gay.

If I walked down the street naked I would be arrested not given a high five by police officers (there maybe be some pointing and laughing)

What exactly do you think goes on at the Pride Parade? Like, do you think people are walking down the street naked?

It is a well-attended event. It would not be if Mayor Nenshi and Bryan Burke were walking down the street naked.

[Dan02]

10% of their customers are gay so as a business it makes perfect sense...as a fan really it shouldn't matter

I do think people are pretty quick to jump to the whole homophone thing though

beyond the sexual orientation aspect there are lots of things not to like about the pride parade (for me anyway) again it has nothing to do with them being gay.

If I walked down the street naked I would be arrested not given a high five by police officers (there maybe be some pointing and laughing)

So I have a question dino, have you ever even been to a pride parade? I've been to a few and haven't seen anyone naked yet. Some topless women for sure, but that's much more of a feminists issue then gay issue.

But in the event you have(I'm pretty sure you haven't) and did see someone naked(I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have), thanks for stereotyping all of us based on that 1 person.

[dino7c]

come on now, I have lived and worked downtown and while I have not specifically been there for the parade I have been in the area during the parade time and have seen some things that would not be acceptable at any other time or any other event..granted this was a few years back maybe they are cleaning things up these days.

If you want to take your family down go for it, its not for me...gay straight or otherwise

[dino7c]

So I have a question dino, have you ever even been to a pride parade? I've been to a few and haven't seen anyone naked yet. Some topless women for sure, but that's much more of a feminists issue then gay issue.

But in the event you have(I'm pretty sure you haven't) and did see someone naked(I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have), thanks for stereotyping all of us based on that 1 person.

you are making a lot of assumptions about me, one of my best friends is gay and will tell you the exact same thing about the parade, he doesn't bring his own children

Redmile gets HEAVILY criticized for topless women

[FlamesAddiction]

So I have a question dino, have you ever even been to a pride parade? I've been to a few and haven't seen anyone naked yet. Some topless women for sure, but that's much more of a feminists issue then gay issue.

But in the event you have(I'm pretty sure you haven't) and did see someone naked(I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have), thanks for stereotyping all of us based on that 1 person.

I think in the early days, there was a bit more of a protest aspect and some outrageous things made the news, even if they were the exception. It still gives people the wrong notion. They should just really go and see what is about IMO. It's really worth going just to see the artistic expression of many of the people involved.

And not try and take the cause away from the LGBT community as the event was created to bring their cause into the mainstream, but on a more basic level, Pride is for everyone who was ever afraid to be themselves, be judged, or want to exercise their freedom of expression. In fact, I think as time goes by, society will look back on the rampant homophobia like most people do about pre-civil rights treatment of black people in America; that is with a mindset of; "What the hell were people thinking!?". It won't make Pride celebrations obsolete, but rather more inclusive.

[ranchlandsselling]

Honestly, not even newsworthy to me, like others have mentioned, if they held a cancer event I'd not bother reading as it's not news worthy anymore, just a sports team doing the things that make them great but happen all the time (which is a good thing). I feel the same about this... Cool, can't be bothered to click the link to read the story as I've got other things I need to get done....... Says the guy posting in the thread (need to go get on with day).

I am amazed I opened this thread, managed two pages of reading to see it went sideways as expected. The usual possible troll, but not really sure if it's just someone who has a poor way of expressing themselves or a troll and the usual replies to that poster taking the opportunity to jump all over someone. Way to go! Then jumped to last page to post this, which is in itself a useless reply. Sigh.

I blame it all on this useless weather. Don't really feel like going anywhere. Stupid late October weather.

[gvitaly]

In my opinion, I am glad that the Flames are getting involved in the comunity and that they keep giving back to the city. I simpy think each person can do and support what he/she wants in his/her own time. In addition, it is simply a good PR move for both the players and the team. It is a good way to keep the interest in the Flames going through the off season.

As for pride parades, I am not a big fan. The reason being that we draw attention to an issue that should* be a non issue. I think anyone can love and be with whoever they wish, and they shouldn't be treated differently for it. A parade, in my opinion, shows a community that wishes to distinguish itself from the rest of society. Finally, let me ask you just one question. What kind of a reaction would the community have if I decided to have a straight parade? I think it would try to label me as anti-gay, simply because I wish to celebrate my love for the opposite sex.

*I realise that the key word is should, and it is not always the case.

[ikaris]

If the Flames participated in a march for cancer or MS awareness, and people tell them to stick to hockey, what type of reactions should those people (deservedly) get from the general public?

So are you saying that being gay is like having cancer or MS?

[dino7c]

I think in the early days, there was a bit more of a protest aspect and some outrageous things made the news, even if they were the exception. It still gives people the wrong notion. They should just really go and see what is about IMO. It's really worth going just to see the artistic expression of many of the people involved.

And not try and take the cause away from the LGBT community as the event was created to bring their cause into the mainstream, but on a more basic level, Pride is for everyone who was ever afraid to be themselves, be judged, or want to exercise their freedom of expression. In fact, I think as time goes by, society will look back on the rampant homophobia like most people do about pre-civil rights treatment of black people in America; that is with a mindset of; "What the hell were people thinking!?". It won't make Pride celebrations obsolete, but rather more inclusive.

I came in here to state that I was fine with the team marching in the parade and anyone else for that matter (and I did earlier in the thread) Just took a bit of an issue with the whole homophobe thing, people seem to jump to that pretty quickly. There are reasons other than being anti-gay to not personally like the parade. I know gay people who don't like it for christ sake.

I admit it has been 4 or 5 years since I have been there so if things have been cleaned up (for lack of a better word) then good, people on the fence might take it more seriously.

Anyway, this is my last post in here I don't need 5 pages of people railroading against me. If you are going to the parade I sincerely hope you have a great time...don't freeze your balls off in those short shorts

[Dan02]

Pride is for everyone who was ever afraid to be themselves, be judged, or want to exercise their freedom of expression. In fact, I think as time goes by, society will look back on the rampant homophobia like most people do about pre-civil rights treatment of black people in America; that is with a mindset of; "What the hell were people thinking!?". It won't make Pride celebrations obsolete, but rather more inclusive.

bingo.

[cam_wmh]

Yeah, but apparently if you don't attend or march in the parade, you don't support the movement, and are in all likelihood a homophobe.


I see charity work and marching in a parade as two different things. Yes they both effect the community but in different ways.

So for every rally that goes on in Calgary the flames have to show support for, to give back to the community?
This is the root of your argument.

You've seen the stats.

How else do you show being gay is o.k. if you're the Calgary Flames, with the limited number of avenues they have available.

[Street Pharmacist]

This is the root of your argument.

You've seen the stats.

How else do you show being gay is o.k. if you're the Calgary Flames, with the limited number of avenues they have available.
You have to pick every single cause or your being a hypocrite I guess. Can't march in Gay Pride if you don't do something for Black history month or Italian Heritage day.

[RyZ]

So are you saying that being gay is like having cancer or MS?

He didnt say anything of the sort. How do you possibly come to that conclusion?

[combustiblefuel]

This thread has become ridiculous. Thank god hockey is only a few weeks away.

[gvitaly]

This is the root of your argument.

You've seen the stats.

How else do you show being gay is o.k. if you're the Calgary Flames, with the limited number of avenues they have available.

I see what you're saying, just the logic doesn't hold up. By default the Flames can't show anything else. Hypothetically, the Flames have no avenues to show that being gay is not o.k*. They most likely be fined and asked to apologize for any such statement.

Anyways, I am glad that the players use their status as role models, to promote causes they think are just. That is all there is to it in this discussion.

*I am only criticizing the logic here not the statement by over exaggerating it. Also, it is in direct contrast to what I believe.

[MrMastodonFarm]

As for pride parades, I am not a big fan. The reason being that we draw attention to an issue that should* be a non issue. I think anyone can love and be with whoever they wish, and they shouldn't be treated differently for it. A parade, in my opinion, shows a community that wishes to distinguish itself from the rest of society. Finally, let me ask you just one question. What kind of a reaction would the community have if I decided to have a straight parade? I think it would try to label me as anti-gay, simply because I wish to celebrate my love for the opposite sex.

I'd say good luck and hope you get more attendance then this guy.
http://www.newnownext.com/a-seattle-man-threw-a-straight-pride-parade-and-no-one-showed-up/07/2015/
Anthony Rebello threw a Heterosexual Pride parade in Seattle’s gayborhood of Capitol Hill on Saturday, but the turnout was less than he had expected: Exactly no one showed.

“We all have the right to celebrate the way of life we have chosen for ourselves,” he posted on Facebook in advance of the event.

[The Yen Man]

Yeah, but apparently if you don't attend or march in the parade, you don't support the movement, and are in all likelihood a homophobe.

That's not even your original argument. You're saying you have an issue with people that are against the Flames marching in the parade being automatically labelled as homophobes. What other possible reason could there be to be against Flames doing another community service than if you are against the movement itself? I guess the radical view that one poster brought up about Flames sticking solely to hockey and nothing else is valid. But if that's the case, then you are technically against them doing any type of charity work.

We're not talking about attending or marching in the parade, we're talking about whether you are against the Flames getting involved in it.

[RougeUnderoos]

What kind of a reaction would the community have if I decided to have a straight parade? I think it would try to label me as anti-gay, simply because I wish to celebrate my love for the opposite sex.


You'd probably get the same kind of reaction as those cool dudes who hold white power events. It usually goes like this:

1) A couple dozen morons show up to protest the 'imgrints and turbans or the Jews running Hollywood or whatever else is holding them down.

2) A hundred other people show up to shout at them.

3) Everyone else rolls their eyes, and maybe laughs at the people who would do something so stupid as hold a white power (or in this case a "Straight Pride") event.

But have at 'er if you want. Nobody is stopping you. If really want to celebrate the fact that you like the ladies, start the movement.

I like the ladies too, but I can't possibly imagine a reason I'd need to "celebrate" it though. The old "I want a straight pride parade to prove that the homos will call me a homophobe if I have a straight pride parade" doesn't cut it.

[Jables16]

Stick to hockey is coded language though.

Because I assume the same people would have no problem with the flames coming out for the stampede parade.

Or any other community involvement like the flames foundation. It's only this community involvement that they should stick to hockey

Great post. It's not like we see the lactose intolerant community get up in arms on Miracle Treat Day. "Flames players serving Blizzards to the community?! Ugh! Stick to hockey, guys."

[Grimbl420]

I'm all for equal rights and support the LGBT community but I do not like the pride parade. I think there is an overtly sexual aspect of it, with people dressing in sexualized clothes and bondage gear or no clothes at all. Then you got your blow up penises, dry humping and other simulated sex acts. These sexual acts are against the law and would get these people arrested any other day of the year. Pride is supposed to be about being able to freely love who you choose, NOT ABOUT THE ACT OF SEX!

Until this is removed from the parade in whole I do not, and will not support it. When they remove the indecency from it then count me in.

[corporatejay]

The parade isn't as sexualized as it used to be. Much more corporate support, including my firm, which I'm proud to say has a "float" this year. I will be marching and weather permitting my wife and kids as well.

Glad the flames are involved.

Does anyone know why Cornish isn't marching this year?

[CMPunk]

The parade isn't as sexualized as it used to be. Much more corporate support, including my firm, which I'm proud to say has a "float" this year. I will be marching and weather permitting my wife and kids as well.

Glad the flames are involved.

Does anyone know why Cornish isn't marching this year?

Jon Cornish? He's busy getting ready for the game Monday?

[ben voyonsdonc]

I'm all for equal rights and support the LGBT community but I do not like the pride parade. I think there is an overtly sexual aspect of it, with people dressing in sexualized clothes and bondage gear or no clothes at all. Then you got your blow up penises, dry humping and other simulated sex acts. These sexual acts are against the law and would get these people arrested any other day of the year. Pride is supposed to be about being able to freely love who you choose, NOT ABOUT THE ACT OF SEX!

Until this is removed from the parade in whole I do not, and will not support it. When they remove the indecency from it then count me in.

Have you ever been to Calgary Pride? I've never ever seen a naked person walking. Never. I've marched in it every single year since 2006.

[MissTeeks]

Does anyone know why Cornish isn't marching this year?


Shaw says he's part of their parade coverage:

@ShawTVCalgary: Watch the @PrideCalgary #Parade LIVE on Shaw ch10 this Sunday at 12:30pm! @AlannaNolan @OnAirKate @global_leslie http://t.co/rmCefWKSEJ

@ShawTVCalgary: @PrideCalgary @AlannaNolan @OnAirKate @global_leslie and of course @April_Storm & @jonnycornish will be with us too! #yycpride

[ben voyonsdonc]

You know the thread has gone off the rails when someone trots out the "straight pride parade" trope.

There is a straight pride parade every day. It is held on every single street in the world.

[corporatejay]

Jon Cornish? He's busy getting ready for the game Monday?


He's injured still I believe.


Thanks to the above, he's on TV.

[Grimbl420]

Have you ever been to Calgary Pride? I've never ever seen a naked person walking. Never. I've marched in it every single year since 2006.

Yes, I've been to pride, both here and in Vancouver.

[jayswin]

I'm all for the Flames participating in any community event. Maybe I'm a little old school or something but to be honest I don't understand these parades...admittedly perhaps that's because I'm not gay. For the record, I don't care what someone's sexual orientation is. I'm all for the freedom to be who you want to be in this world as long as it doesn't hurt other people. I guess my thinking is, in holding a parade like this is it not accomplishing the exact opposite of what the parade is for? It's almost like trying to segregate yourself from the rest of the community. To me it says "hey look at us...we're different"...when I think the message should be you're not different at all. There is nothing abnormal about it. Your gay. I'm straight. So what? We are all still people.

1998 called.

[gvitaly]

You'd probably get the same kind of reaction as those cool dudes who hold white power events. It usually goes like this:

1) A couple dozen morons show up to protest the 'imgrints and turbans or the Jews running Hollywood or whatever else is holding them down.

2) A hundred other people show up to shout at them.

3) Everyone else rolls their eyes, and maybe laughs at the people who would do something so stupid as hold a white power (or in this case a "Straight Pride") event.

But have at 'er if you want. Nobody is stopping you. If really want to celebrate the fact that you like the ladies, start the movement.

I like the ladies too, but I can't possibly imagine a reason I'd need to "celebrate" it though. The old "I want a straight pride parade to prove that the homos will call me a homophobe if I have a straight pride parade" doesn't cut it.

lol that wasn't my point. I definitely wasn't planning on making one because as you said it would be ridiculous. 3) is pretty much my reaction to the pride parades. "You have your preferences, good for you... so now what?" that's my exact reaction to pride parades.

[dammage79]

A rare sighting of the little known Introverts parade:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2055/2399980104_cdbba7fe36.jpg

EDIT: I just wanted to say good for the Flames for participating. Everyone should support equal rights and it's good that so many feel a parade to celebrate openness is necessary. I don't abide to that ideology because I feel true equality does not need flags or parades or to be celebrated. It is a way of life in which I live and do not need to publicise. I treat no one any differently than anyone else based on orientation or race or religion. Life's too short to judge and chastise anyone for the way they choose to live. Doesn't affect my life in any negative or positive way.

[troutman]

The late, great, Lou Reed:

There's a down town fairy singing out "Proud Mary"
As she cruises Christopher Street
And some Southern Queen is acting loud and mean
Where the docks and the Badlands meet

This Halloween is something to be sure
Especially to be here without you

There's a Greta Garbo and an Alfred Hitchcock
And some black Jamaican stud
There's five Cinderellas and some leather drags
I almost fell into my mug

There's a Crawford, Davis and a tacky Cary Grant
And some Homeboys lookin' for trouble down here from the Bronx

But there ain't no Hairy and no Virgin Mary
You won't hear those voices again
And Johnny Rio and Rotten Rita
You'll never see those faces again

This Halloween is something to be sure
Especially to be here without you

There's the Born Again Losers and the Lavender Boozers
And some crack team from Washington Heights
The boys from Avenue B and the girls from Avenue D
A Tinkerbell in tights

This celebration somehow gets me down
Especially when I see you're not around

There's no Peter Pedantic saying things romantic
In Latin, Greek or Spic
There's no Three bananas or Brandy Alexander
dishing all their tricks

It's a different feeling that I have today
Especially when I know you've gone away

There's a girl from Soho with a teeshirt saying "I Blow"
She's with the "jive five 2 plus 3"
And the girls for pay dates are giving cut rates
Or else doing it for free

The past keeps knock, knock, knocking on my door
And I don't want to hear it anymore

No consolations please for feelin' funky
I got to get my head above my knees
But it makes me mad and mad makes me sad
And then I start to freeze

In the back of my mind I was afraid it might be true
In the back of my mind I was afraid that they meant you

The Halloween Parade
At the Halloween parade
At the Halloween parade
See you next year, at the Halloween parade

http://gothamist.com/2013/10/31/revisit_lou_reeds_perfect_ode_to_th.php

[GoJetsGo]

lol that wasn't my point. I definitely wasn't planning on making one because as you said it would be ridiculous. 3) is pretty much my reaction to the pride parades. that's my exact reaction to pride parades.

It's really baffling that people can be so dense about this issue.

We're talking about a group that's been discriminated against to the point where many of them have needed to hide who they are up in recent years / generations. That discrimination is still very prevalent in many facets and these events allow people to gather together for support and to show they no longer need to hide, that they can celebrate (with pride) who and what they are.

The "I don't feel the need to throw a straight-pride parade" take is so ignorant it's at the point where it's dull it's so insensitive.

You saying "You have your preferences, good for you... so now what?" reeks of arrogance in that you seem to think the point of the gathering and celebration is somehow about you. If you aren't interested in it, you can pay it no mind. Do you have the same reaction to "Latin Fest" for example? "Great, you enjoy celebrating Latin Culture. Good for you. So now what?"

Pride is for the people involved to gather and find a sense of greater acceptance. The fact you feel the need to weigh in on it at all if it doesn't interest you is really strange.

[jayswin]

I actually enjoy seeing posters squirm around the fact that they're not completely comfortable with the LGBT community. Here's a hint, if you start a post with "I'm totally okay with the LBGT community and I think it's great that the Flames are involved", but then you have a second paragraph that lists "issues" with it and/or express disdain for those that challenge people who don't like the Flames being there.......;)

If you're completely comfortable with that community and like that the Flames are involved, then either A) Your post would end there, or B) You wouldn't be posting in the thread. If your post continues on with the classic "I'm not a homophobe, but" routine, then you probably are a little bit homophobic.

I think because homophobic is such a "you're not with the times" and "you're not for equality" term these days, people tend to get very offended at the idea that they would be labelled like that, as everyone wants to believe they are kind and fair, and aren't bigoted or against groups of people for no reason.

But the reality is, when you look at the definition of homophobic, it really does state that most people who aren't comfortable with the LBGT community and don't support communities/organizations from doing whatever they can to help a marginalized portion of society are at least a little bit homophobic.

Homophobia - unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/homosexual) and homosexuality.

[PepsiFree]

In a world where you're fully accepting of the gay community, you don't have a "gay friend". You have a friend, and you don't need to use their sexuality to justify your position. You don't wonder about a straight parade because the pride parade isn't a "gay" parade, it's just another parade anyone could participate in.

Here is an interesting article that highlights why the issue will probably fade as younger generations grow older. We simply identify less and less with either/or. I know I surely don't. The relevance of the labels are fading.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/18/straight-gay-kinsey-scale-sexuality-yougov-survey

[jayswin]

And I guess just to relate my post to this thread. Illuminati, could you simplify and clarify your position by stating;

Are you completely accepting of the LGBT community?

Do you accept that the Flames are involved in many great ways in the community, not just life saving/reaching out to terminally ill fans?

Are you therefore okay with them being involved in Pride week?

If no, then what's your reasoning? And no your answers so far haven't clarified what your actual issue is, because "sports teams should stick to sports" isn't even close to being a thing in 2015. It was probably a thing back in the 30's, but this is today.

[EldrickOnIce]

In a world where you're fully accepting of the gay community, you don't have a "gay friend". You have a friend, and you don't need to use their sexuality to justify your position. You don't wonder about a straight parade because the pride parade isn't a "gay" parade, it's just another parade anyone could participate in.

Here is an interesting article that highlights why the issue will probably fade as younger generations grow older. We simply identify less and less with either/or. I know I surely don't. The relevance of the labels are fading.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/18/straight-gay-kinsey-scale-sexuality-yougov-survey
This is so wrong. I have friends who identify very specifically as gay, and want to be identified as such. They are strong advocates within the community and want to be a gay buddy, while doing the same #### that every guy does. They think that this helps break barriers. They don't want to be treated any different, but they definitely want to be identified as gay.
To say I'm not fully accepting of them because they are my 'gay friends' is incredibly narrow minded and completely ignorant of the struggle for complete acceptance they still face.

[PepsiFree]

This is so wrong. I have friends who identify very specifically as gay, and want to be identified as such. They are strong advocates within the community and want to be a gay buddy, while doing the same #### that every guy does. They think that this helps break barriers. They don't want to be treated any different, but they definitely want to be identified as gay.

To say I'm not fully accepting of them because they are my 'gay friends' is incredibly narrow minded and completely ignorant of the struggle for complete acceptance they still face.


Read the sentence directly after.
Identifying people specifically as they wish to be identified is obviously the way to go.
Don't speak to another person's struggle or use it to salt merit on your POV, that's all.

[jayswin]

This is so wrong. I have friends who identify very specifically as gay, and want to be identified as such. They are strong advocates within the community and want to be a gay buddy, while doing the same #### that every guy does. They think that this helps break barriers. They don't want to be treated any different, but they definitely want to be identified as gay.
To say I'm not fully accepting of them because they are my 'gay friends' is incredibly narrow minded and completely ignorant of the struggle for complete acceptance they still face.

You misinterpreted his point, I believe. He was just saying that homophobes aren't making their point more valid when they speak out against the LGBT community while propping up their point with "I have a gay friend".

Maybe not misinterpreted, as he did go into detail about the gay friend/friend thing, but it seemed he was trying to relate it directly to homophobes, in which case I agree completely. There's nothing worse than "I have an X friend, so I can say this"

http://i45.tinypic.com/34yuq0h.jpg (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRxqFQoTCJHLgKyP4ccCFZKUiAod1tkNtA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.onceuponatimefansite.com%2 Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D3%26t%3D1404%26start%3D40&psig=AFQjCNF1R2STU5YPbHd_DWkb1oMHpP0o2Q&ust=1441584594683830)

[SebC]

I sense that there's a segment of the community who aren't specifically against expressing LGBTQ sexuality, they're just against expressing sexuality at all.

In which case my response is still the same - sexuality isn't actually harming you, so you have no moral authority to restrict it.

[Hackey]

I'm definitely all for it. Glad to see the Flames getting involved. I think this just helps people be more accepting of everyone, not just the LGBT community. Promotes that type of thinking which the world could use more of.

Just curious what did people take issue with? The fact they were supporting the event at all or they thought they were over doing it or something else?

[rubecube]

I sense that there's a segment of the community who aren't specifically against expressing LGBTQ sexuality, they're just against expressing sexuality at all.

In which case my response is still the same - sexuality isn't actually harming you, so you have no moral authority to restrict it.

Did you make the same argument in the wobbly h thread?

Anyways, there are actually some very legitimate and non-homophobic reasons for bring anti-pride that you can dig up with a quick google search, but I highly doubt the people who are against the Flames' participation are against it for those reasons.

[CofR]

I for one am really proud of the team and our players for being supportive and for showing the LGBTQ community of our city, and beyond, that not only are they accepted by the team, but they should be incredibly proud to be who they are.

Surprised and disappointed by so many of the comments on the Flames Facebook picture mentioned earlier.

Sucks about the rain this weekend, hopefully it's clear tomorrow for the parade... If I didn't have to work nights tomorrow I would be there watching and giving support.

[SebC]

Did you make the same argument in the wobbly h thread?If I did, I've forgotten, because I don't have a clue what that thread would be.

[rubecube]

If I did, I've forgotten, because I don't have a clue what that thread would be.

I was just busting your balls. Not sure if you were even in that thread. It was the Stampede...uh....public display of affection thread.

[craigwd]

Pride is for the people involved to gather and find a sense of greater acceptance. The fact you feel the need to weigh in on it at all if it doesn't interest you is really strange.

Precisely.
And people have to realize that it's one thing to say "I don't want to attend" for whatever reason and it's another (completely wrong) thing to say "They shouldn't hold a parade at all".

[gvitaly]

It's really baffling that people can be so dense about this issue.

We're talking about a group that's been discriminated against to the point where many of them have needed to hide who they are up in recent years / generations. That discrimination is still very prevalent in many facets and these events allow people to gather together for support and to show they no longer need to hide, that they can celebrate (with pride) who and what they are.

The "I don't feel the need to throw a straight-pride parade" take is so ignorant it's at the point where it's dull it's so insensitive.

You saying "You have your preferences, good for you... so now what?" reeks of arrogance in that you seem to think the point of the gathering and celebration is somehow about you. If you aren't interested in it, you can pay it no mind. Do you have the same reaction to "Latin Fest" for example? "Great, you enjoy celebrating Latin Culture. Good for you. So now what?"

Pride is for the people involved to gather and find a sense of greater acceptance.

Just like it seems a bit arrogant of you to think that whoever disagrees with you is dense, ignorant, and insensitive. Have you read my previous comments? of course you haven't, you just enjoy pointing out one liners out of context.

As for the comparison with Latin fest, yes I have the same reaction. One main difference, Latin Fest also doesn't seem to draw as much attention to it for some reason. I don't think that Flames players going to Latin Fest would be a headline in a newspaper, let alone multiple newspapers.

The fact you feel the need to weigh in on it at all if it doesn't interest you is really strange.

If it was a topic made during the hockey season I wouldn't even have opened it. Especially since the replies made to my posts only seem to target the off topic parts of the discussion.

[GoJetsGo]

As for the comparison with Latin fest, yes I have the same reaction. One main difference, Latin Fest also doesn't seem to draw as much attention to it for some reason. I don't think that Flames players going to Latin Fest would be a headline in a newspaper, let alone multiple newspapers.

Really? That's your stance? You are going to tell everyone here you question all parades, festivals and gatherings that don't interest you with an equal "what's the point" attitude?

That was a random example of a gathering trying to illustrate if it's something that doesn't interest you, there's really no need to make a point of ensuring people know that.

The obvious difference would be that until recently (and still very much currently in many regards) the lgbt community is widely discriminated against. That is why there is more publicity when there is additional support and exposure.

You show you completely miss the point when you say you could throw a parade showing your love for the opposite sex. That is and has been openly celebrated every day throughout history through its normalcy. With same-sex, it's been widely shamed and shunned, and that's the reason why there's a gathering celebrating it's acceptance in the first place.

The failure to understand that very simple and fundamental difference really shows there's a degree of underlaying ignorance at play.

[PsYcNeT]

mfw "libertarian ideals"

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/06/fa/63/06fa638adb5542d13258ab3c20fb3ed2.gif

[heep223]

mfw "libertarian ideals"

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/06/fa/63/06fa638adb5542d13258ab3c20fb3ed2.gif


Thank you...I felt slightly disappointed that everyone was ignoring that

[chid]

Don't think I've ever seen nudity or even a ton of sexualized outfits at Calgary pride. Toronto, yes. With the weather today I doubt it will be too scantily clad. I've found it is mostly businesses and political parties in the parade handing out rainbow branded paraphernalia with their company logo. I saw more butt cheeks, midriffs, and cleavage at Stampede tbh.

[FlamesAddiction]

The whole "heterosexual pride" argument is hilarious. I don't recall heterosexuals ever having issues where coming out as a heterosexual might affect how they are accepted by others.

The biggest contributor to homophobia is that homosexuality was treated by mainstream society as being forbidden or taboo, to even deviant and morally wrong by some people. People tend to be afraid about things that are "hidden" from plain view. By bringing out in the open, it challenges those perspectives.

There really isn't anything wrong about being a proud heterosexual and displaying that pride publicly has never been an issue. That's why even bringing it up to counter gay pride celebrations is a dead argument.

[jayswin]

The whole "I don't think the Flames should be involved in any parades/events" response when questioned about not wanting them in the Pride parade just reeks of bull****. Sorry to be so blunt, but you can't convince me there's people in here that actually dislike the idea of the Flames going to parades/festivals, simply because you don't want them doing that, or you think they should stick to hockey.

Don't insult the intelligence of the posters here. You're not completely comfortable with the LGBT community, it is what is, but just own it, don't squirm around the issue, trying to show your disdain while pretending it doesn't bother you. It's awkward and silly.

Again, homophobia has become a very damning term and I understand no one wants to think they are or be labelled as such, but it kind of is what it is. I'll post the definition again...a lot of you guys on here and facebook fit this definition, it's unfortunate but you do, and you should reflect on that and hopefully change for the better.

unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/homosexual) and homosexuality.

And I'm not marginalizing or attacking you guys, like you seem to think everyone is. I was homophobic until my early twenties for no other reason than everyone else was too. I'm equally at fault in the discrimination of the LGBT community, but I changed with the times and am disgusted that I was ever anything but completely welcoming and accepting of their community, you can change too.

[craigwd]

Don't insult the intelligence of the posters here. You're not completely comfortable with the LGBT community, it is what is, but just own it, don't squirm around the issue, trying to show your disdain while pretending it doesn't bother you. It's awkward and silly.



I felt the exact same way during the Gay Straight Alliance non-issue that seemed to paralyze the government last year. :confused:

[TorqueDog]

If Illuminaughty was a libertarian, they wouldn't give a crap whether the Flames marched in a parade, visited sick kids, or did anything aside from hockey. Given that isn't the case, I'm dubious of the claim.

Possibly unpopular opinion time; Illuminaughty is right to a point; marching in the pride parade is totally different than visiting sick kids.

Curveball time: I think the Flames participating in the Pride and showing support for LGBT equality has a much greater impact and is far more beneficial to society at large than visiting sick and/or terminally ill kids. http://www.prairietalk.ca/images/smilies/shrug.gif That doesn't mean I think they should do one over the other, or 'stick to hockey'. Both are important and they should continue to do both if they so desire.

[jayswin]

If Illuminaughty was a libertarian, they wouldn't give a crap whether the Flames marched in a parade, visited sick kids, or did anything aside from hockey. Given that isn't the case, I'm dubious of the claim.

Possibly unpopular opinion time; Illuminaughty is right to a point; marching in the pride parade is totally different than visiting sick kids.

Curveball time: I think the Flames participating in the Pride and showing support for LGBT equality has a much greater impact and is far more beneficial to society at large than visiting sick and/or terminally ill kids. http://www.prairietalk.ca/images/smilies/shrug.gif That doesn't mean I think they should do one over the other, or 'stick to hockey'. Both are important and they should continue to do both if they so desire.

Yeah, I wasn't going to touch that one because there's no way to say it without sounding insensitive to sick kids, but in the context of the point they were trying to make, which was to put it simply;

Visiting sick children and supporting the children's hospital saves lives while marching in a pride parade doesn't, so therefore we're okay with the Flames visiting sick kids but would prefer they don't march in parades.

It's ridiculous, and the point I was going to counter with is that yes supporting the children's hospital financially and as a team saves lives, but individual visits of terminally ill children doesn't save lives, it just makes someone's day/life better.

Well guess what? So does the Flames marching in the pride parade, and it's completely ignorant to think otherwise.

[Jbo]

Seeing the comments on the Flames and Stampeders website is disappointing and really makes me feel like this city is not nearly as progressive as we like to think. Actually makes me kind of sad. This strikes me a little closer to home today. Some of the comments about Burke and Jon Cornish were downright savage.

Last night I was out at a scotch tasting night at the Cellar downtown, an event a week before a wedding im going to. Great people, friends and family. Had a blast and made some new friends. The detail that is unimportant? They are two men getting married. But that doesn't change anything. Two people in love and getting married is something to celebrate. This was something awesome, natural and beautiful.

I'm sad that some people still get offended by that. I really am.

[EM11]

That if you have a problem with the flames marching in the gay pride parade, it is solely because you are a homophobe.

That's because you *are* a homophobe when you make this argument. If you are spending a lot of time arguing that you're not a racist, not a sexist, not a homophobe, you are probably the last one to be aware of your big obvious problem.

Proud of the Flames and Brian Burke for their leadership today. It's not 1980 anymore.

[jayswin]

Seeing the comments on the Flames and Stampeders website is disappointing and really makes me feel like this city is not nearly as progressive as we like to think. Actually makes me kind of sad. This strikes me a little closer to home today. Some of the comments about Burke and Jon Cornish were downright savage.

Haha, speaking of that, I had one of those mild heart sinking moments on youtube the other day. I was watching a viral social experiment video of how Canadians react when a Muslim is mistreated in public.

The racist actor gets berated and eventually punched by some redneck looking guys who stood up for him. Anyways, despite the awfulness of youtube comments I decided to read some on this video and it was actually really nice.

Just comment after comment of Muslims from other countries saying they want to move to Canada and people from all over the world saying how great Canada is and how amazing the people were here when they visited, etc. It was really heart warming and a huge Canada lovefest until....

"Canada is amazing but I heard the city of Calgary is quite difficult to live in as a minority", followed by a couple dozen responses just to that post with support for the idea that Calgary and Alberta aren't very welcoming or friendly for minorities.

My first thought was "of course that would happen while I was enjoying these comments for once", but there's some days I think the idea that Alberta is behind when it comes to equality and acceptance is BS and there's days where I think it's deserved.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

I wasn't gonna post because well this is a really garbage thread and I honestly feel that these complex social issues are best fought in real life and not on some message board, but watching you guys gang up on that dude and call him all kinds of names isn't cool at all. You want to educate him, show him why you feel he's wrong? Rock on. But you sure as faecal matter aren't going to sway his opinion by ganging up on him and calling him a homophobe.

Or put another way, discuss this like rational adults and stop acting like a bunch of mealy mouthed x-box players. You are all exponentially better than this. Grow up.

My 2 cents.

[RougeUnderoos]

Interview today with Burke in the Globe and Mail about the pride parade/this topic. And they don't (or don't on this page) have a comments section!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/alberta/calgary-flames-brian-burke-on-gay-pride-and-sexuality-in-sports/article26236559/?click=sf_globefb&service=mobile

Local organizers are expecting more than 50,000 people to take in the parade. Does that surprise you?

No. I’ve marched four times in Toronto’s gay parade, so I know what this is about. The first I attended was with my son Brendan, who was gay, and we just watched. After we lost him in the car accident [in 2010] I marched the next year. Rick Mercer has marched with me; kids have marched with me; a number of players have marched with me. [Flames players] Mark Giordano and Sean Monahan marched with me last summer. I’ve gotten great support … My goal is that one day we won’t need a parade. But for now, I’m glad we do. Keep in mind: If you’re an average Calgarian and you’re not a member of the LGBTQ community, this is your chance to say, ‘This community is important. These people are important. They matter.’ I think it’s a big day.

[PepsiFree]

I wasn't gonna post because well this is a really garbage thread and I honestly feel that these complex social issues are best fought in real life and not on some message board, but watching you guys gang up on that dude and call him all kinds of names isn't cool at all. You want to educate him, show him why you feel he's wrong? Rock on. But you sure as faecal matter aren't going to sway his opinion by ganging up on him and calling him a homophobe.

Or put another way, discuss this like rational adults and stop acting like a bunch of mealy mouthed x-box players. You are all exponentially better than this. Grow up.

My 2 cents.


While the general sentiment is good, it's hard to take you seriously if your method of discouraging name calling is through name calling.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

While the general sentiment is good, it's hard to take you seriously if your method of discouraging name calling is through name calling.

Yup fair enough. Not that I actually care if anyone takes my silly old ass seriously.

Point is we understandably get very emotional with these kind of topics and then people go off the edge and act like children. Myself included. It's time to have the conversations free of emotion so we can actually effect change going forward.

[Minnie]

Oh dear, calling a homophobe a homophobe. Oh the huge manatee. But no, let's tiptoe around the delicate flower and pat him on the back and just say he's misunderstood. Eff that. Let's not get delicate with the vernacular. Jeebus.

[jayswin]

Yup fair enough. Not that I actually care if anyone takes my silly old ass seriously.

Point is we understandably get very emotional with these kind of topics and then people go off the edge and act like children. Myself included. It's time to have the conversations free of emotion so we can actually effect change going forward.

Meh, it hasn't been that bad, and nothing changes the minds of ignorant people than an over whelming majority saying "You know what? What you're saying doesn't belong in this day and age".

All homophobic means is that you aren't comfortable with homosexuals. That's what's on display with a few posters in this thread, so calling them homophobic isn't the terrible, degrading attack you think it is. It's just literally what they are.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Oh dear, calling a homophobe a homophobe. Oh the huge manatee. But no, let's tiptoe around the delicate flower and pat him on the back and just say he's misunderstood. Eff that. Let's not get delicate with the vernacular. Jeebus.

Thank you for proving my point. This does NOTHING to move the conversation forward or to help this fellow see why so many feel his stance is wrong. But you just go ahead and keep up the name calling. That's going to make things SO much better :(

Meh, it hasn't been that bad, and nothing changes the minds of ignorant people than an over whelming majority saying "You know what? What you're saying doesn't belong in this day and age".

All homophobic means is that you aren't comfortable with homosexuals. That's what's on display with a few posters in this thread, so calling them homophobic isn't the terrible, degrading attack you think it is. It's just literally what they are.

No it's what you have inferred he is. He has said nothing about the LGBT community outside of he feels the Flames shouldn't be in this march. The rest of his views are wholly unknown to us. For the record I am not defending his stance, I just think we can be so much better at educating each other when we are wrong.

[Minnie]

I'm sorry you're too delicate to deal with the fact that calling a homophobe a homophobe is what should happen. Just like calling someone a racist when they're being effing racist is how it goes. Funny how you seemingly have no issue with that word, but oh golly gee whilikers, homophobe is the end of the bloody world. Please. Just please.

[MissTeeks]

Ready to march:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/06/9a6f3e7992808d988bc50b54791800ba.jpg

[TorqueDog]

Or put another way, discuss this like rational adults and stop acting like a bunch of mealy mouthed x-box players. You are all exponentially better than this. Grow up.Do you even read this forum?

Clearly the majority here are mealy mouthed PlayStation players. We even have a poll that says as much.

[Minnie]

Great photo. My kid is there today. I was supposed to go with her but ended up with a wicked ear infection. We were going to go to that, then out to Canmore for the Highland Games, and take the bikes but it all got kiboshed. I hope she's having a good time! She called up a friend and they were meeting there.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

I'm sorry you're too delicate to deal with the fact that calling a homophobe a homophobe is what should happen. Just like calling someone a racist when they're being effing racist is how it goes. Funny how you seemingly have no issue with that word, but oh golly gee whilikers, homophobe is the end of the bloody world. Please. Just please.

Nice. We're done here I think.

[MissTeeks]

Flames, Hitmen, Roughnecks and Inferno members:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/06/1a1e20a3ff41f79d4ab6cda5d770ae63.jpg

[SebC]

I assume that unless you know who's hooking up with who, a straight pride parade would looks a lot like a gay pride parade...

[jayswin]

Thank you for proving my point. This does NOTHING to move the conversation forward or to help this fellow see why so many feel his stance is wrong. But you just go ahead and keep up the name calling. That's going to make things SO much better :(

Again though, it's not name calling. Like I said earlier, I was a homophobe when I was younger and you what was a big part of my change? The fact that when I was a teenager there was no label for hating/not accepting the gay community.

The fact that being a homophobe became a negative thing and meant you weren't the kind, accepting person you thought you were was a HUGE part of why I changed.

Are these people changing because people leave them be and let them have their views uncontested? Do they change their views when people argue politely and without calling them what they are? Not from what I've seen on CP. Words are powerful and the battle for equality needed some uumph behind terms.

f***** has become a powerful word in a negative way, in that it is no longer socially acceptable to use.

homophobe has become a powerful word in that it is no longer socially acceptable to be homophobic.

Change isn't as simple as "let people be, let them have their views", because then we wouldn't see much change in this world. Sometimes a spade needs to be called a spade, so that people hopefully look inside themselves and reflect and change accordingly. It worked for me and has likely worked for millions of people.

[jayswin]

Ready to march:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/06/9a6f3e7992808d988bc50b54791800ba.jpg

We traded for Phil Kessel?

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Again though, it's not name calling. Like I said earlier, I was a homophobe when I was younger and you what was a big part of my change? The fact that when I was a teenager there was no label for hating/not accepting the gay community.

The fact that being a homophobe became a negative thing and meant you weren't the kind, accepting person you thought you were was a HUGE part of why I changed.

Are these people changing because people leave them be and let them have their views uncontested? Do they change their views when people argue politely and without calling them what they are? Not from what I've seen on CP. Words are powerful and the battle for equality needed some uumph behind terms.

f***** has become a powerful word in a negative way, in that it is no longer socially acceptable to use.

homophobe has become a powerful word in that it is no longer socially acceptable to be homophobic.

Change isn't as simple as "let people be, let them have their views", because then we wouldn't see much change in this world. Sometimes a spade needs to be called a spade, so that people hopefully look inside themselves and reflect and change accordingly. It worked for me and has likely worked for millions of people.

Where did I say to let him be and have his views? I never once said that. Don't put words in my mouth. I said find a better way to educate him. Going straight to "You are a giant homophobe" isn't going to make him pause for thought. It's going to raise his hackles and have him dig in his heels, which is EXACTLY what happened here.

[MrMastodonFarm]

I'd love to see a Flames player come out in the next couple years, be one of the first hockey players to do so.

[jayswin]

Where did I say to let him be and have his views? I never once said that. Don't put words in my mouth. I said find a better way to educate him. Going straight to "You are a giant homophobe" isn't going to make him pause for thought. It's going to raise his hackles and have him dig in his heels, which is EXACTLY what happened here.

Well, to be fair no one called him a "giant homophobe" so that's also putting words in people's mouths. Calling someone a giant homophobe would be unnecessary and an attack, imo. Calling someone homophobic isn't.

And I disagree for the reasons I stated in the post you quoted (I was speaking more in general terms of society at that point in the post that you quoted and said I put words in your mouth, btw, sorry for the lack of clarity), I think we do need to be tough and make sure we keep battling these guys to bring them into present day society.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

I'd love to see a Flames player come out in the next couple years, be one of the first hockey players to do so.

I would love to see a world where none of this matters. Where we stop caring who mashes their genitals with whom, what colour their skin is, or which God they claim fealty with. Where we judge a person on their accomplishments and stances on issues and nothing more. Of course that is so far beyond our generation it's a pipedream to see in my lifetime, but I have hope for my kids and their children should they decide they want them.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Well, to be fair no one called him a "giant homophobe" so that's also putting words in people's mouths. Calling someone a giant homophobe would be unnecessary and an attack, imo. Calling someone homophobic isn't.

And I disagree for the reasons I stated in the post you quoted (I was speaking more in general terms of society at that point in the post that you quoted and said I put words in your mouth, btw, sorry for the lack of clarity), I think we do need to be tough and make sure we keep battling these guys to bring them into present day society.

Ok I see what your point is. I don't fully agree, but at least we agree it shouldn't matter whom is in love with whom. It's called love and that's all that really matters.

[jayswin]

I would love to see a world where none of this matters. Where we stop caring who mashes their genitals with whom, what colour their skin is, or which God they claim fealty with. Where we judge a person on their accomplishments and stances on issues and nothing more. Of course that is so far beyond our generation it's a pipedream to see in my lifetime, but I have hope for my kids and their children should they decide they want them.

Yep, and that's exactly what we're all fighting for here? To reach what you're describing as fast as possible. We're not there yet, and that's why all this happens.

[MrMastodonFarm]

I would love to see a world where none of this matters. Where we stop caring who mashes their genitals with whom, what colour their skin is, or which God they claim fealty with. Where we judge a person on their accomplishments and stances on issues and nothing more. Of course that is so far beyond our generation it's a pipedream to see in my lifetime, but I have hope for my kids and their children should they decide they want them.

Okay sure, that would be the utopic end goal but I think what I said is more realistic and is the first baby step.

[Minnie]

Please tell me what we call the man in Banff who turned around and screamed at my daughter and her girlfriend, for holding hands and walking down the sidewalk. Gee, the nerve, holding hands. He screamed some vile ####. I suppose we could call him Bob.

Or, the guy in Radium who came up to my daughter and her girlfriend in the pool, and told them to 'quit being so cliche' because my daughter simply lifted her arm and rested it on the pool ledge, behind her girlfriend, and placed her hand on her girlfriend's shoulder. I suppose we could call him Larry. Who knew showing you care for someone is so cliche? It wasn't cliche when he was doing the exact same thing with his wife, seconds earlier. WTFE, homophobe.


Just 2 examples. I'm fairly ok with the word homophobe. If you're acting like one, then I'm going to call you one. I'm not really all that interested that it pisses you off, or insults you. Frankly, the issue is yours to deal with. Not mine. Not my daughter's or her girlfriends.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Seeing some photos on twitter roll in... was it too cold for the naked men with their smooth dongs today? Not seeing any twigs, not being any berries.

Gayest thing right now is probably member of Council Sean Chu with his turtlenecked shirt.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Please tell me what we call the man in Banff who turned around and screamed at my daughter and her girlfriend, for holding hands and walking down the sidewalk. Gee, the nerve, holding hands. He screamed some vile ####. I suppose we could call him Bob.

Or, the guy in Radium who came up to my daughter and her girlfriend in the pool, and told them to 'quit being so cliche' because my daughter simply lifted her arm and rested it on the pool ledge, behind her girlfriend, and placed her hand on her girlfriend's shoulder. I suppose we could call him Larry. Who knew showing you care for someone is so cliche? It wasn't cliche when he was doing the exact same thing with his wife, seconds earlier. WTFE, homophobe.


Just 2 examples. I'm fairly ok with the word homophobe. If you're acting like one, then I'm going to call you one. I'm not really all that interested that it pisses you off, or insults you. Frankly, the issue is yours to deal with. Not mine. Not my daughter's or her girlfriends.

Hey scream and rail away at me. As my son and his soon to be husband have taught me, not everyone will understand the open hand approach at teaching love. That's fine if you feel that going stick is the way you want to be, but for my life that's not going to be how we roll.

[TorqueDog]

We traded for Phil Kessel?That's Jordan Sigalet, goaltending coach.

[Quincy Egg]

I'd love to see a Flames player come out in the next couple years, be one of the first hockey players to do so.

...Why?

Just so the Flames can say they were the first in the NHL? This isn't a competition.

[terminator]

The fact that this thread exists shows that we do not, yet, see gay as equal.

[MrMastodonFarm]

...Why?

Just so the Flames can say they were the first in the NHL? This isn't a competition.

Because they're my favourite team?

Wasn't thinking about it as a competition, simpleton.

[jayswin]

Ah crap, Quincy Egg found the FOI forum.

[Ramjacket]

We traded for Phil Kessel?



No.... That's Brian Burke

[jayswin]

lol

[JiriHrdina]

Who's the guy to the right of Gio?

[Roughneck]

CBC article today

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-pride-25th-anniversary-1.3217157


Back in 1990 more than 100 people from Calgary's LGBTQ community gathered in Central Memorial Park in what would later become the city's first Pride rally.
It was organized to fight fear and ignorance and would go on to become an annual event that attracts thousands of people from all over the world.




She said there was some ultra-right wing protesters who would yell and spit at them.
"One fellow brought his trio of pit bulls to frighten us," said Miller.
"I think every time someone saw the abuse that was hurled at us it just made them more determined to come back the next year."


The comments is pretty typical, unfortunately.

[MBates]

On September 4 at 6:34 pm, this thread was started on notice being taken of the change of the Flames Facebook profile picture to a rainbow flag backed version of the team's logo.

Interestingly, the thread has contained much discussion of the Flames various community involvement including comparing supporting sick kids to marching in parades - straight or otherwise.

On September 4 at 10:30 am, another development had happened on the Flames Facebook page...they added a post that, to me, answers all of the discussion and debates going on here:

https://www.facebook.com/NHLFlames/posts/10153565716843704

A little toddler named Dominic Rooney died of leukemia. His sexual orientation could never be an issue...because he died before anyone could even bother to consider it.

Do Dominic's parents give any care in the world that the Flames paid a small (and I might add heart-wrenching) tribute to his life by posting on a website with a rainbow in their profile picture? My goodness I hope not.

Does anyone here really care whether the marriage Dominic might have grown up to have would have been to a girl or a boy?

Does anyone here really care that the Flames have gone out of their way to try to in some small way ease the pain of people who lost their child?

If the answer to that last question is, "no", then how could anyone in the world possibly care that the Flames are bundling up for the weather and walking down a street to in some small way make life better for other people in their community?

You do not have to be gay, or have a gay family member or friend to want people who happen not to identify as heterosexual to have less hardship in their lives. Any more than you need to have a personal connection to a cancer patient to want them to have an easier go of things...or to wish Syrian refugees were not washing up dead on beaches.

Right or wrong, celebrity comes with a certain magic..."ordinary" folks look up to professional athletes and sometimes get an incredible uplift in life by just getting a tweet from one...never mind a meeting in person or a visit to a dressing room or one of the team acknowledging that something important in their lives is worth being acknowledged or, Heaven forbid, (aware of my use of that phrase) even celebrated.

The Flames are using the magic of celebrity to make some people's lives better. I am a lawyer who has defended some pretty difficult and sometimes unpopular cases. I make a living out of passionately arguing for things I don't necessarily personally support...and I cannot come up with a single legitimate argument against using celebrity to do good in the community.

And looking at the pictures of Dominic underneath the rainbow-backed "Flaming C" goes a long way to demonstrate just how utterly irrelevant a person's sexual preferences are to any objective analysis of their worth as a person (I am also aware no one is overtly arguing against the value of the people in the Pride movement...but then I cannot understand really what the basis is to in any way care the Flames are supporting it).

The debate here can and likely should continue...I think my view is right and others are wrong, but in just the same way I argue above, who cares to call someone a homophobe or shout down their views of the world if they wish their sports team would not involve itself in politically or socially controversial issues?

Sometimes trying over and over to justify the unjustifiable is exactly the catalyst necessary for someone to re-think and then actually change his or her position. Welcome the opportunity to engage someone who completely disagrees with you...don't force them to hold their beliefs even more strongly but in private. Positive change will never happen that way.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Jon Cornish? He's busy getting ready for the game Monday?

Shaw says he's part of their parade coverage:
And here I was all ready to congratulate him for just sticking to football.

[Weitz]

Was driving down 12th/11th Ave this afternoon and the roads were busy and lots of people walking with flags and what not. Looks like was a great turnout.

[RougeUnderoos]

I think the Pride Parade must be over. I didn't attend, but I've seen some colourfully-dressed people walk by my place here, and I did just see a naked man dancing in my mirror.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I'm sorry you're too delicate to deal with the fact that calling a homophobe a homophobe is what should happen. Just like calling someone a racist when they're being effing racist is how it goes. Funny how you seemingly have no issue with that word, but oh golly gee whilikers, homophobe is the end of the bloody world. Please. Just please.
Eh... see, I've always maintained the same position. Basically, my response to anyone who opposed gay rights or gay marriage has traditionally been, "f*** you, I don't want to know you, you are a worse human being for your views".

And maybe that's true. But the tendency of those of us who are socially liberal to knee-jerk our way into these reactions on certain social justice topics produces a lot of bad behavior and bad results and can stifle discussion on legitimate topics in a sort of penumbra around these sorts of issues. That discussion can't happen because it becomes a witch hunt as everyone rushes past each other to be the first and loudest to shout down the heretic so as to reinforce to himself and others that he is progressive and all about equality! "See everyone? See how uncompromisingly, take-no-prisoners great and moral a person I am?"

For example, is being gay immoral? No argument there, it clearly is not. Should we legislate whether businesses should be permitted to discriminate on the basis of their religious beliefs? I think the answer is clearly no, but this is obviously the sort of topic where you cannot just shout down the other side and need to rebut their position rationally. Is it appropriate to have a legislated set of rights for LGBT persons, and what should be covered by that, or rather than leaving it to legislators, should we rely on the Courts read said rights into existing law? Whole big argument to have on that point. As Rube said earlier there are even very contentious, wholly non-bigoted arguments to have over whether pride events are actually a good thing at this point. But it's really hard to even get discussions like that started, and this applies to many current social issues, not just gay rights.

Now, that being said, I think for the most part, Larry is wrong - most posters in here weren't piling on the guy, just asking him to provide one good example of a reasonable, believable non-homophobic reason why the Flames shouldn't do this. Which is a completely different tone of discussion.

[Hackey]

Read some of the facebook comments just because I was curious. Good way to unneccesarily get yourself mad. Have to look at the positives though since I seen a lot more comments supporting than having negative things to say.

[hockey.modern]

Who's the guy to the right of Gio?


Jordan Sigalet, goalie coach

[Alberta_Beef]

I don't care one way or the other if they are in the parade or not. But I do believe that if they are going to support Calgary as a community there is nothing wrong with supporting every aspect of it.

[jayswin]

I don't care one way or the other if they are in the parade or not. But I do believe that if they are going to support Calgary as a community there is nothing wrong with supporting every aspect of it.

There it is. Okay, I'll bite. Since you're not going to say you're uncomfortable with homosexuality like everyone else that brings up issues with the Flames participation, please expand on your contention being that "there's nothing wrong supporting every aspect of it (the community).

What does that mean? What are they not supporting that they should be?

[Hackey]

The guy who runs the Flames facebook page did mention that they have changed the profile pic to support other causes before and they always post about various events the Flames are involved in. This isn't really getting special attention. If it is its minimal and probably warranted.

[Alberta_Beef]

There it is. Okay, I'll bite. Since you're not going to say you're uncomfortable with homosexuality like everyone else that brings up issues with the Flames participation, please expand on your contention being that "there's nothing wrong supporting every aspect of it (the community).

What does that mean? What are they not supporting that they should be?
My best friend is gay, so I definitely have no issues with homosexuality.

I simply don't give a flying #### about parades of any kind whether it be for gay pride or the Stampede.

As for me saying there is nothing wrong with showing support, I'm not sure what you are so up in arms about as that was directed at the people who seem to be taking issue with it.

But I do have one bone of contention. That is with people like yourself who are doing nothing more than trying to make a big deal about nothing because something may not have been worded absolutely perfectly.

[Wedge]

There it is. Okay, I'll bite. Since you're not going to say you're uncomfortable with homosexuality like everyone else that brings up issues with the Flames participation, please expand on your contention being that "there's nothing wrong supporting every aspect of it (the community).

What does that mean? What are they not supporting that they should be?

This is my biggest issue with this topic. Alberta Beef includes "but" and now he's cited as bad, as a homophobe. The witch-hunt on here for anyone not 100% support of all things gay is lame. The PC movement has gotten old.

[MrMastodonFarm]

This is my biggest issue with this topic. Alberta Beef includes "but" and now he's cited as bad, as a homophobe. The witch-hunt on here for anyone not 100% support of all things gay is lame. The PC movement has gotten old.
:rolleyes:

[MRCboicgy]

Here's a real distinction - linguistics if you will - that's really come out in this thread.

Calling someone a homophobe is in fact different than saying they are acting like one, saying something homophobic. Substitute almost any other adjective (silly, racist, intelligent even), as really, doesn't have to be this one.

So, if you get called out for saying or doing something homophobic, no one is calling you a homophobe, but they are saying that particular action came across as homophobic.

Getting back on topic, Jon Cornish takes on some Facebook commenters
https://www.facebook.com/CalgaryStampeders/photos/a.433798964190.230744.38992519190/10153348445259191/?type=1

[MrMastodonFarm]

May be something, may be nothing but starting to notice a pattern of the people posting hateful Facebook comments.. most tend not to have an actual picture of themselves, just a random photo or horrible inspirational quote pic instead. Also tend to have their profiles totally closed off.

This was good though.

Comment:Does EVERYTHING have to be a rainbow? So sick of having this shoved down my throat.

Reply: Too easy. I'll leave this alone.

[Benched]

Wow just read the comments holy moly this city is red neck...or bible thumping. Not sure. Pretty ugly.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Wow just read the comments holy moly this city is red neck...or bible thumping. Not sure. Pretty ugly.
The comment section of any site, on any issue is usually the scum of the Earth. Been to youtube lately?

Let's not ignore the thousands of people that showed up to Pride this afternoon and focus on the handle of hateful Facebook commenters.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Probably one of few instances where corporate co-opting of a social movement actually accomplishes something good.

Flames see participation as beneficial to the bottom line.

For example: A lot of banks/financial institutions are on board.

Somewhere along the line Pride evolved from a protest to a march to a family-friendly parade with corporate sponsorship.

[Hackey]

Wow just read the comments holy moly this city is red neck...or bible thumping. Not sure. Pretty ugly.

Ya it's pretty sad. Hopefully they are the minority.

[chid]

It makes me sad to see people in our city be on the wrong side of history.. I wonder what textbooks will say when they talk about lgbtq issues in the future.

[MRCboicgy]

Somewhere along the line Pride evolved from a protest to a march to a family-friendly parade with corporate sponsorship.

Probably around the time the organizing committee started actively discouraging the go-go boys and the tossing of naked trading cards into the crowd. I'd say, about 4 years ago now. Anything too sexual in nature will get you yanked from the parade mid-journey. A good thing in my opinion - I never thought it needed to have inflatable dongs and all.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Probably around the time the organizing committee started actively discouraging the go-go boys and the tossing of naked trading cards into the crowd. I'd say, about 4 years ago now. Anything too sexual in nature will get you yanked from the parade mid-journey. A good thing in my opinion - I never thought it needed to have inflatable dongs and all.

If the goal is acceptance/tolerance then the active participation of heterosexual allies in these endeavours means the end goal is in sight. I'll go out on a limb and say there were more heterosexual onlookers (if not participants) in this parade. It's a fairly new phenomenon (maybe the tipping point being about five years ago).

[the2bears]

This is my biggest issue with this topic. Alberta Beef includes "but" and now he's cited as bad, as a homophobe. The witch-hunt on here for anyone not 100% support of all things gay is lame. The PC movement has gotten old.

Did these things happen in your imagination?

[FlamesAddiction]

Probably one of few instances where corporate co-opting of a social movement actually accomplishes something good.

Flames see participation as beneficial to the bottom line.

For example: A lot of banks/financial institutions are on board.

Somewhere along the line Pride evolved from a protest to a march to a family-friendly parade with corporate sponsorship.

Which is really awesome. The right to non-violently protest is a fundamental aspect of freedom. The fact they pulled it off and turned it into a victory like that is an amazing example of what people can do when their convictions are strong and righteous.