Darren Haynes top 25 prospects

[shotinthebacklund]

http://flamesfrom80feet.blogspot.ca/

Interesting to see how this compared to our list.

http://www.calgarypuck.com/2015/08/2015-summer-prospect-rankings-summary/

Couple drops in comparison. was surprised to see rasmus and Oliver this high.

[icarus]

McDonald ahead of Gillies is a big call.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

I like this list for the most part but Janko at #15? I can understand having different opinions than me but how the hell can someone think Wotherspoon, Arnold or the two defensemen just drafted late in the 2nd round are better prospects than Jankowski at this point? There's others I disagree with ahead of him too, but those 4 were the ones that stood out the most.

The Kylington love is getting a little irritating. I was/am thrilled we got him when we did, but lets not kid ourselves, the kid is the definition of a longshot and is coming off of a TERRIBLE season. Went from being a potential top 5 pick to #60. I'm going to defer to the people employed by actual NHL teams and keep my expectations grounded. Pronman and Haynes are nuts to rate him so high based on what he's shown so far. Somehow him and Andersson are better than Klimchuk, a former 1st round pick who is progressing nicely. Makes no sense.

[Goodlad]

One important quote at the beginning of that article

For my rankings, I should note that this is not the order I expect players to ascend to the NHL, but rather it is sorted by the impact/role I expect that player to have when (or if) they do make it to the NHL.

I think that's likely one reason his list varies quite a bit from CP's. I think quite a few prospects in the CP poll benefited from being close to making the NHL (Ortio being an example). Also interesting to see how much higher he has Andersson and even Kylington, and how much lower Ortio, Ferland and Jankowski are. Bill Arnold ahead of Jankowski also intrigues me, and I could definitely see a case being made for that.

[RyZ]

McDonald ahead of Gillies is a big call.

Not really, IMO. Gillies is closer right now (and 2-3 yrs older) but MacDonalds upside is right there with Gillies. People are sleeping a little bit on MacDonald due to him playing on an averagish team in the high scoring QMJHL but he has great numbers for that league (better than Uber goalie prospect Zach Fucale, while being younger and on a far worse team) and is likely about to be the starter for the most difficult junior hockey team in the world to make in the Canadian WJHC squad. Make no mistake, McDonald is an absolutely elite G prospect in the hockey world with upside every bit as high as Gillies'.

[Enoch Root]

McDonald ahead of Gillies is a big call.

For me, Gillies is clearly our top goalie prospect.

But I love the fact that there are a lot of people that think Ortio is. And there is another lot of people that think MacDonald is.

That is awesome.

And I agree that Jankowski was low. Also Ferland is low, IMO.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Good list. Arnold would be too high and Jankowski too low for my taste, but it is interesting that he indicated that Janko wouldn't have even made the list last year (indicating that he did indeed see improvement).

I think it does show the good depth and overall improvement from prior years. Whether that depth will actually translate into impactful NHLers remains to be seen.

[saillias]

Not really, IMO. Gillies is closer right now (and 2-3 yrs older) but MacDonalds upside is right there with Gillies. People are sleeping a little bit on MacDonald due to him playing on an averagish team in the high scoring QMJHL but he has great numbers for that league (better than Uber goalie prospect Zach Fucale, while being younger and on a far worse team) and is likely about to be the starter for the most difficult junior hockey team in the world to make in the Canadian WJHC squad. Make no mistake, McDonald is an absolutely elite G prospect in the hockey world with upside every bit as high as Gillies'.

I'm going to be "that guy", but not necessarily the case for goaltending where Hockey Canada definitely has a problem with development in comparison to our peers in Sweden, USA and Finland. Something that culminated with the CHL banning Euro goalies from being picked in the import draft starting 2014.

[RyZ]

I'm going to be "that guy", but not necessarily the case for goaltending where Hockey Canada definitely has a problem with development in comparison to our peers in Sweden, USA and Finland. Something that culminated with the CHL banning Euro goalies from being picked in the import draft starting 2014.

Fair enough, there is no doubt that some of the other countries are Canadas equal in producing goalies right now, but that doesnt change the fact that McDonald was the first goalie taken in his draft class and hasn't regressed. You could make a case for him that he's seen as the best (or at very least top 2) goalies from his age group/draft class in the world right now.

[GranteedEV]

Unsurprising, but disappointing how low Jankowski is. I think a lot of people are going to be stunned how seamlessly Janko's going to jump to the big leagues, the bad college stats are going to be a blip on the radar once we see what he'll do with NHL talent on his wings.

[Rick M.]

Unsurprising, but disappointing how low Jankowski is. I think a lot of people are going to be stunned how seamlessly Janko's going to jump to the big leagues, the bad college stats are going to be a blip on the radar once we see what he'll do with NHL talent on his wings.

Janko played very well in the playoffs. If he can keep up that level of play for a full season, he will rise up the rankings.

[Vulcan]

Klimchuk

He has declared himself ready to turn pro but we'll see. An overage season in Brandon could still be in the offing. As the least hyped of the first rounders in 2013, every development camp Klimchuk reminds us not to forget about him. He's deadly when he gets the puck anywhere around the net.


IMO there is no way in hell Klimchuk goes back to junior. His only problem is that we've got too many young forwards vying for a job.

Oh yeah, he's got Jankowski about where he should be. I have him a little higher at 12th. He was supposed to be a scoring centre but he hasn't shown anything like that so far. It's a little early in his career for him to be downgraded to being a defensive player but so far that's all he's shown. A guy like Byron was a good scorer in junior and even in the AHL. It wasn't until he got to the NHL that he had to become a defensive player.

I favour players who are more proven over possible high end, so I have Ortio, Wotherspoon, and Arnold much higher ranked.

[ricardodw]

so based these picks are made on impact?

Ferland had perhaps the biggest impact on the Flames of all the Flames (veterans and prospects) winning their first playoff series since 2004 and he is ranked as our #10 impact players???

Outside of Bennett is there any prospect that you consider might have a chance to have the impact that Ferland had on the Canuck series on any playoff series.


Anyone who is soft-selling Ferland's playoff performance probably also thought that Gaudreau's world cup performance in the spring of 2014 was not a significant indicator of things to come.

[GioforPM]

so based these picks are made on impact?

Ferland had perhaps the biggest impact on the Flames of all the Flames (veterans and prospects) winning their first playoff series since 2004 and he is ranked as our #10 impact players???

Outside of Bennett is there any prospect that you consider might have a chance to have the impact that Ferland had on the Canuck series on any playoff series.


Anyone who is soft-selling Ferland's playoff performance probably also thought that Gaudreau's world cup performance in the spring of 2014 was not a significant indicator of things to come.

I imagine he's taking his regular season into account as well. Unfortunately, Ferland wasn't great after his injury (and wasn't even that great in Adirondack). So, can he maintain the Canuck series level of performance (or near to it) consistently? I think it's a legit question.

After all, for every Dryden in the POs, there's a Druce.

[Poe969]

I think he means future impact. And I think he means that Ferland is likely a high energy third line guy who is important but a guy like Kylington is potentially a top pairing guy and that top pairing defensemen are more impactful then third line forwards.

[GioforPM]

I think he means future impact. And I think he means that Ferland is likely a high energy third line guy who is important but a guy like Kylington is potentially a top pairing guy and that top pairing defensemen are more impactful then third line forwards.

Especially wingers.

[Robbob]

He was on the Fan960 this morning with Pinder at 9am. I don't see it up on the website yet but the knocks on Ferland is that he needs to prove some consistency. Yes he has proven to be a gamer but he also has some long stretches where he doesn't contribute (I believe the example he gave was in the minors he went 20 or 30 games without scoring). If he can come out and be more consistent then there is no reason why he won't climb.

He also mentioned that the list is ongoing and plans on updating it in January.

[Enoch Root]

He was on the Fan960 this morning with Pinder at 9am. I don't see it up on the website yet but the knocks on Ferland is that he needs to prove some consistency. Yes he has proven to be a gamer but he also has some long stretches where he doesn't contribute (I believe the example he gave was in the minors he went 20 or 30 games without scoring). If he can come out and be more consistent then there is no reason why he won't climb.

He also mentioned that the list is ongoing and plans on updating it in January.

That is true of most prospects. And it is important to remember that Ferland's lackluster play at the NHL level was after his concussion.

In fact, Poirier has the same issues - and he mentioned them - but still ranked Poirier 2nd.

Ferland has already done what Poirier hasn't - been impactful at the NHL level.

[Robbob]

Poirier missed the first third of the season because of his shoulder surgery. After that he put up a decent season and collected 42 points in 55 games in the AHL. That isn't too shabby for a first year pro.

[Enoch Root]

Poirier missed the first third of the season because of his shoulder surgery. After that he put up a decent season and collected 42 points in 55 games in the AHL. That isn't too shabby for a first year pro.

Not at all - and I wasn't knocking Poirier.

I was merely pointing out that Poirier was also under-whelming at the NHL level. A criticism that he held against Ferland (but not Poirier)

[Robbob]

Fair enough. I think he is giving Poirier a bit more leeway because of age. Poirer won't be turning 21 until mid December.

[ricardodw]

We are not talking about showing up and playing at an NHL level..... being a bit better than David Jones, Colborne, Stajan or Backlund

In the 6 game playoff series against the Canucks Ferland was dominate.... a game and series changer.

He was at least as good as Monahan, Hudler or Gaudreau.

Maybe Brodie or Wideman or Russell would be the MVP of that series, but it could have easily been Ferland.

He forced the Canucks to get rid of Bieksa and trade for Prust and Sutter.


Flames have won 4 playoff series in 20 years.

Can't have much of bigger impact at the NHL level and not very likely that there is anyone in our prospect list that is a MVP of a playoff series.

[Calgary4LIfe]

It seems that I had a very similar methodology in ranking the prospects as Darren Haynes, but come out with very different rankings. Everyone sees something different in prospects, and it is always nice to see what other people think.

I am a little surprised with the low ranking on Klimchuk more than anything. For me, his biggest question mark will be his durability. That is the only thing that keeps me a bit lower on Klimchuk personally, but other than that I see a very nice prospect with him.

Jankowski I still see as a really good piece. Still have him quite high on my list - much higher than this one - but there are going to be people who just don't see what I see - and vice versa.

MacDonald could very well be the Flames' #1 goalie prospect. Gillies could be #1. Ortio could be #1. I think they all play different styles, sizes and strengths. For me, MacDonald has really grown on me in the last year. I rank both him and Ortio ahead of Gillies, but don't confuse this with me not thinking Gillies is a wonderful prospect. I really like Ortio's style and composure more. MacDonald is a guy that just seems to make that great save. Gillies is huge and composed - but he has slipped a little bit for me due to his allowing a bad goal here and there (WJC, even in the NCAA Final Four - though praise must still be given for him winning a major championship).

The hardest guy for me to ever rank on the prospect list is Ferland. This has been the case the last 3 years, actually. Sometimes I have him ranked 2nd, sometimes closer to 10th. I always said that if he makes it, he will be a game changer and a crowd favorite, and he will be a decent scorer at the NHL level. I just have a tough time trying to figure out where that ranks with players who I think will score more than him. All I know is that I absolutely love this kid, and if someone ranks him on par with Bennett (not that anyone has) I can understand why. I think we all started seeing how much of an impact player he can be. I really do believe that if all things go well, and you put him on a scoring line, this kid can pot 30 goals (yes, thirty) in a season, and be an extremely tough SOB to play against while doing so. I do think if you put him on a 4th line, he will pot in 10-15 in a season, and still be a crowd favorite and an SOB to play against. The kid just has smarts, hands and toughness. I just keep moving him up and down so much in my own rankings more than any other player - which is funny, since (once again) I absolutely love this kid.

[Freeway]

Biggest knock on Klimchuk is he's not huge. Beyond that, if he can "get" the game at the pro level, he'll be a useful player.

[RyZ]

I'm surprised Haynes, Pinder and some others are on board with Klimchuck possibly going back to junior.

How many 1st rounders have stayed in junior up to and including an overage season? And still been a real prospect and went to play a significant career in the NHL? To me sending Klimchuck back to junior is a way of saying "sorry, you are not really in our plans going forward so we will just park you here until we dont have to offer you a contract anymore". Thats the first step on the road to being a non-prospect.

Guys like Austin Carroll play their overage seasons, not 1st rounders that have been putting up point per game + numbers since they were 17 yrs old.

[thymebalm]

I'm surprised Haynes, Pinder and some others are on board with Klimchuck possibly going back to junior.

How many 1st rounders have stayed in junior up to and including an overage season? And still been a real prospect and went to play a significant career in the NHL? To me sending Klimchuck back to junior is a way of saying "sorry, you are not really in our plans going forward so we will just park you here until we dont have to offer you a contract anymore". Thats the first step on the road to being a non-prospect.

Guys like Austin Carroll play their overage seasons, not 1st rounders that have been putting up point per game + numbers since they were 17 yrs old.

I think a lot of 1st rounders are rushed into action to fill a need for an organization. You could look it as Calgary having the depth the support a longer development curve for their players.

We don't need Kilmchuk in the AHL or NHL this coming season. Is the best thing for him to have 20 minutes a night and a chance at a championship.... it might be. I don't think we can jump to the conclusion that it's a bad thing to keep a good prospect at the junior level.

I look at it as the Flames having the opportunity to take their time as they work from a position of strength and not weakness.

[Fire]

Another year in the WHL for Klimchuk would be pretty much a waste for him and stall his development. I would rather him play in the ECHL if he wasn't ready for the AHL.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Another season in the WHL for Klimchuk would be a total and complete waste. He's maxed out what he can do there and would suffer. A 5th year in the WHL? Gross.

He's ready for the AHL, no question.

[RobbieT]

McDonald ahead of Gillies is a big call.

McDonald drafted as the highest goalie of his year, I believe he will start for Canada at WJC and will change a lot of minds about his prospective future. He was the best goalie in the QMJHL last year, and was outstanding for the World U18. I think he will be our future number 1. And that being said, I REALLY like Ortio and Gillies, and think that they will get to the NHL faster, but I think that McDonald has the highest ceiling.

All that being said, we have some pretty awesome goaltending prospects!!

[ricardodw]

Klimchuck was the #28 pick overall. He is 6 months YOUNGER than a Flames #21 pick overall, but there is no hue and cry that he is not playing in the AHL this year.

On the other hand a lot of almost-a-bust talk about Shinkaruk a #24 pick who has his first AHL season under his belt... and is month younger than Jankowski

As well Sieloff (a d-man who takes longer to develop and had a freak year off) has a AHL year under his belt and is 3 months older than Jankowski and this, to many, is his last chance make or break year.... he needs to dominate at the AHL level.


I would like to see Klimchuck in the AHL but if he goes back to Brandon it would not mean that his chances at the NHL are over any more than Jankowski being a 3rd line Centre in the NCAA in his 3rd year after being drafted means that he will not play in the NHL.


Why is patience and slow but steady development OK for some but others it is either either in the NHL or Busts by the time they are 22?


Maybe Brandon keeping Klimchuck as a 20 year old would be related to Brandon giving Kylington a place to play?

[GranteedEV]

IMO there is no way in hell Klimchuk goes back to junior. His only problem is that we've got too many young forwards vying for a job.

Not on LW. After Agostino there's no one in Stockton to keep Klimchuk out of a spot. His best competition is Elson, which is good but not someone who'd keep him from playing.

We are not talking about showing up and playing at an NHL level..... being a bit better than David Jones, Colborne, Stajan or Backlund

...Except for how Jones and Stajan and Backlund were just as good or better, past the commotion of "big hits".

In the 6 game playoff series against the Canucks Ferland was dominate.... a game and series changer.

The adjective you're looking for is "dominant", dominate is a verb.

Klimchuck was the #28 pick overall. He is 6 months YOUNGER than a Flames #21 pick overall, but there is no hue and cry that he is not playing in the AHL this year.

Because he is playing in the AHL?

As well Sieloff (a d-man who takes longer to develop and had a freak year off) has a AHL year under his belt and is 3 months older than Jankowski and this, to many, is his last chance make or break year.... he needs to dominate at the AHL level.

He needs to show progress. Three year's after his draft he's essentially where he was in his draft year.

I would like to see Klimchuck in the AHL but if he goes back to Brandoit would not mean that his chances at the NHL are over

No one said his chances at the NHL are over if he goes back to Brandon. But he's not going back to Brandon.

Why is patience and slow but steady development OK for some but others it is either either in the NHL or Busts by the time they are 22?

Some (Klimchuk) play in Junior leagues against 16 year olds with Junior systems and Junior lifestyles. Junior leagues are not optimal for development. As soon as players are eligible players are turned pro to develop in the AHL. It's fine for 17/18 year olds but once players turn 19, 20 they have little to gain from returning and playing against competition they've pretty much outdeveloped and outgrown.

Others (Jankowski, Arnold, Hickey, Agostino, Gaudreau) Play(ed) in mens leagues against grown men with pro systems and more strict nutrition/exercise regimines. It's not uncommon for good prospects to spend a full four years getting their degree. Nashville's Jimmy Vesey, a very high-end prospect, will be returning for his senior year. This is not a problem because the level of play is reasonably high.

The NCAA as a developmental league not far behind the AHL, though it does depend greatly on which program a player goes to (Denver vs BC for example).

[Vulcan]

Not on LW. After Agostino there's no one in Stockton to keep Klimchuk out of a spot. His best competition is Elson, which is good but not someone who'd keep him from playing.





Yeah, thanks for that and I suppose as usual I wasn't very clear as we were talking about the AHL. I was more meaning his future opportunity with the Flames as the LW spots seem to be spoken for but it is surprising we are pretty lean on LW in Stockton which makes talk of him returning to Brandon even more stupid.

[T-Rich]

Surprised Shore is an honourable mention. Not saying he deserves top 10 but to not even make the list...

[saillias]

I find it hard to consider Drew Shore a prospect. He burned his calder eligibility when he played 43 games in the lockout season. He's been in that Granlund stage of too good for AHL, not good enough for a coach to tell him to get a place to stay, for several years.

[druetetective]

I thought we had Ortio and Ferland way overated but he's doing the same with the two Swedes IMO.

Also correct e if i'm wrong Sureloss, wasn't the last 1st rounder to play a OA season in the CHL Bryan Marchment almost 30 years ago? Klimchuk will NOT be in juniors next year. ECHL perhaps, not WHL!

[druetetective]

Kulak is very undervalued IMO.

-Had 60 points his final WHL season and didn't need an OA year. (unlike Culkin who wasn't ready for pro yet)

-Tore up the ECHL (Eagles fans gave rave reviews on HF. One said he was the most talented player he's seen during his many years with season tickets.)

-Had a better PPG than Wotherspoon and Culkin in AHL while being younger. (1/3 of the season isn't that small of a sample size BTW)

-Tremendous skating ability and wicked slapshot. (103 was mentioned at a Giants skills competition. Can anyone confirm?)

Iv'e got hi as our 2nd best D prospect behind only Hickey. hate using absolutes but i can see 4-6 Dman with 500+ GP outta this kid.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

If I'm Klimchuk and the Flames want to force me back to the WHL, I'm looking at opportunities overseas to be honest. Poirier plays 2 years in the AHL before Klimchuk plays at all? They were drafted 6 spots apart in the same draft and Klimchuk has played well to this point and clearly ready for the next step. I could see the argument had Morgan struggled the last 2 years but that hasn't been the case. This isn't even worth discussing honestly and I'm surprised a guy like Haynes even thinks this is a possibility.

[Riles]

From what I've seen, the knock I have for Klimchuk is the need to "grab it" with his game.
He's a "little things" player, does a lot of things well, but doesn't do something REALLY well. When I've watched him, he's been "just there" but never made me think, 'That's something to translate to the next level."
Just my two cents.

[Rick M.]

Klimchuk gets praise for his quick release and the deadly accuracy of his shot. He looks like one of those players who will need to play with a good set up guy.

[StrykerSteve]

Klimchuk has never really impressed me in all the dev camps I've watched him in. He simply hasn't stood out amongst the crowd, for the most part. Doesn't mean he's a bad hockey player, just needs to really step things up and show that he deserves to be there more than the other guys.

[Vulcan]

Yeah, Klimchuk is not a player who will get you out of your seat except maybe when he scores a big goal. As Riles says he does the little things well. Haynes and others may not think highly of him but I don't think that's the case with the Flames. I remember Hartley asking about him last season if he could go to the AHL and was disappointed when he couldn't.