Countdown Poll - Flames GMs

[Bingo]

not as many as the coaching list, but still a pretty interesting list when you look through the stability of Fletcher, the chaos of after and into the current structure.

Best of all time?

[Robbob]

Hard to give anyone else a look with Fletcher there. Going up against the Oilers of the 80's and bringing home a cup makes this easy for me.

[SuperMatt18]

Could Feaster actually be the second best GM we have had after Fletcher? Mostly since it is too early to judge Treliving one way or another.

Couple of main mistakes, but after Fletcher he was probably the best at drafting, and brought in a Jack Adams winning coach.

It kind of scares me to think of that.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Yeah Cliffy will walk away with this round AINEC. I also agree with SuperMatt that Feaster is probably second best, only due to Treliving not having a large enough sample size yet. Everyone else is pure ugh IMO.

[JiriHrdina]

Should be 100%

[foofighter15]

I think Treliving will eventually fight with Fletcher as our best ever if he continues down his current path, but it's too soon to tell.
As much as I loved Sutter as a coach....I don't see him doing well in this poll

[Huntingwhale]

To be fair Sutter deservers a ton of credit for getting us out of the dark ages and reinvigorating Flames hockey in this city. He just went bonkers near the end.

Fletcher is #1.

[Finger Cookin]

Trying to decide early if CP hangs the worst GM title on Risebrough, Button, or Feaster.

[CroFlames]

1. Fletcher
2. Sutter
3. ?

Treliving's stock is certainly rising recently on this list, but as with Gio, I have a hard time picking him since the story is yet to be written.

[JiriHrdina]

Coates did a better job than he gets credit for, particularly given the economics of the team at the time. I'm not sure I can rank Darryl #2 as a GM due to both his poor draft record (mainly in the 1st round) and his 1 week of madness. I may put Coates there.

[FanIn80]

Wasn't Button responsible for most of the '04 team?

Mind you, it's all moot until the next thread anyway. I can't fathom anyone not voting for Fletcher in this one.

[gvitaly]

Definitely Fletcher. I just count playoff series and wins.
1.Fletcher 22 playoff series, won 12 of them for a total of 115GP.
2.Sutter 8 playoff series, won 3 of them for a total of 52GP.
-------------Evreyone Else--------------
3.Treliving* 2 playoff series, won 1 of them for a total of 11GP.
----------Flames Worst GMs------------
4.Risebrough 3 playoff series, for a total of 18GP.
Doug Gilmour, Jamie Macoun, Ric Nattress, Rick Wamsley, and Kent Manderville for Gary Leeman, Jeff Reese, Michel Petit, Alexander Godynyuk, and Craig Berube.

After that I think it is more of the worst GM, looking at who is left. It could be argued that this team is here thanks to Feaster, but too many close calls and bad trades during his tenture for me to like him as a GM.

*bit too early to tell

[CroFlames]

Coates did a better job than he gets credit for, particularly given the economics of the team at the time. I'm not sure I can rank Darryl #2 as a GM due to both his poor draft record (mainly in the 1st round) and his 1 week of madness. I may put Coates there.

I'm surprised myself I ranked Darryl at 2. But he really changed the Flames in more ways than one, and did win 3 playoff series. Arguably 4. Brought in Vezina goalie Kipper for peanuts, can't be overstated.

But after 2005, it was downhill from there as GM.

[jayswin]

Should be 100%

Nothing's ever 100% when CMPunk is voting. ;)

[browna]

One thing forgotten is that Fletcher had no salary cap, and unlimited funds for the most part from the Flames owners, and thus the Flames through the mid to late 80's were in the top 5 of salaries.

Absolutely robbed some teams, like St. Louis a couple times, but it was more for budgetary reasons on St. Louis than anything else.

[killer_carlson]

Fletcher was also one of the first GMs to sign free agents out of US college programs as well as take flyers on some US college players

If I recall correctly:

Otto
Patterson
Suter

Amongst others

He was years ahead of the league on that.

[Strange Brew]

I can't think of any logical reason to support someone other then Cliff.

Compare this list to the coaches list. On that list, you have 6 SC champions and at least one other guy (King) who I consider a very high quality coach. Guys that had success outside of the Flames and with the Flames.

Compare this to the GM list. After Cliff, Burke and Feaster there is not much success outside of Calgary. No one seems to give Feaster credit for Tampa Bay and Burke was only an interim GM with us.

Wonder why the Flames have had such limited success in the playoffs over the years? Take a look at this poll.

[Mike F]

Coates did a better job than he gets credit for, particularly given the economics of the team at the time. I'm not sure I can rank Darryl #2 as a GM due to both his poor draft record (mainly in the 1st round) and his 1 week of madness. I may put Coates there.
Agreed. Someone needs to do a comprehensive history of the status of the interconnected Canadian dollar, NHL payroll parity, free agency age, and Flames internal payroll cap before GMs can truly be judged.

[Dion]

For the team's first 10 years in Calgary, the architect behind those glorious teams of the 1980s was general manager Cliff Fletcher. Fletcher can also lay claim to having had the best ever draft for the Flames, which happened at the Montreal Forum on June 9, 1984.

At the 1984 draft, Fletcher drafted four players that would go on to play over 1,000 games in the NHL:


Round 1, 12th - LW Gary Roberts (1224 games, 438-471-909)
Round 2, 38th - LW Paul Ranheim (1013 games, 161-199-360)
Round 6, 117th - RW Brett Hull (1269 games, 741-650-1391)
Round 9, 180th - D Gary Suter (1145 games, 203-642-845)


Three of the four would be instrumental in the Flames winning their only Stanley Cup in 1989. Roberts and Suter were key parts of the team. Hull was traded to St. Louis in March 1988 and while that deal (Hull and Steve Bozek for Rob Ramage and Rick Wamsley) will always be criticized considering the hall-of-fame career Hull ended up having, Ramage and Wamsley would be integral pieces of that 1989 team. For the speedy Ranheim, he spent most of 1988-89 in the minors with his first full year coming the following season.

For good measure, Fletcher also selected 26-year-old Jiri Hrdina in the 8th round of 1984, one of four established Czechs taken that year by the Flames GM, who hoped they would either one day defect or eventually be released to play in North America. Sure enough, Hrdina did come over to the NHL and his parts of four seasons with Calgary included the Stanley Cup year.

http://flamesfrom80feet.blogspot.ca/2015/06/calgary-flames-to-z-draft-primer.html

[Jacks]

We almost need a list of each GM's trades, signings and draft picks, it's hard to remember some of the moves that Coates, Button, etc. made after all this time.

Doesn't matter this round because anyone not voting Fletcher is obviously too young to have heard of him, can't imagine any other reason to vote for someone else.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

We almost need a list of each GM's trades, signings and draft picks, it's hard to remember some of the moves that Coates, Button, etc. made after all this time.

Doesn't matter this round because anyone not voting Fletcher is obviously too young to have heard of him, can't imagine any other reason to vote for someone else.

All I can say is save that research for the late rounds.

[getbak]

Fletcher was also one of the first GMs to sign free agents out of US college programs as well as take flyers on some US college players

If I recall correctly:

Otto
Patterson
Suter

Amongst others

He was years ahead of the league on that.
Suter was drafted, as were Nieuwendyk and Hull. Macoun was also a college free agent. He got some real steals just by heavily scouting the NCAA system when most teams weren't (it's also where he got Badger Bob).


It's interesting to look at the breakdown of how he built the Stanley Cup team...

DRAFTED:

Peplinski (ATL)
T. Hunter (ATL)
Vernon
MacInnis
Roberts
Loob
Fleury
Hrdina
Suter
Nieuwendyk


UNDRAFTED NCAA:

Patterson
Otto
Macoun


TRADE:

McDonald - Colorado
McCrimmon - Philadelphia
Murzyn - Hartford
MacLellan - Minnesota


TRADE WITH THE BLUES (thanks for the Cup, Ron Caron):

Wamsley
Nattress
Mullen
M. Hunter
Gilmour
Ramage


http://2.cdn.nhle.com/flames/images/upload/gallery/2014/05/untitled%20folder%202/stanley%20cup_015_slide.jpg

[getbak]

We almost need a list of each GM's trades, signings and draft picks, it's hard to remember some of the moves that Coates, Button, etc. made after all this time.

You can see their trades here: http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/GM_list

Draft picks here: http://flames.nhl.com/club/draftstats.htm?year=All&round=All&team=CGY

This link has the dates that each GM was on the job: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Calgary_Flames_general_managers


Fletcher handled every draft up to 1990
Risebrough ran the 1991-1995 drafts
Coates: 1996-1999
? - 2000
Button: 2001 & 2002
Sutter: 2003-2010
Feaster: 2011-2013
Burke: No drafts
Treliving: 2014 & 2015


I don't remember all the details of the 2000 draft. From what I remember, as a condition of hiring Button, he was not allowed to participate in the Flames' draft that year, but he was still able to make draft day trades.

[gvitaly]

Trades by general manager (http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/GM_list)
Enjoy!

Edit: What getbak said

[dammage79]

Treliving has made a heck of a first impression. Feaster deserves more votes for the drafting. Fletcher obviously deserves the votes he has been getting but I all about right now. And right now looks amazing. Feaster and Treliving/Burke have definitely pointed this thing in the right direction.

[Jay Random]

While Cliff Fletcher was definitely the Flames' best GM, honourable mention has to go to another name.

The GM who did the most to entertain Calgarians, year after year, who left nothing in reserve, who always went the extra mile to see that Flames fans would have something to cheer about, is of course… Kevin Lowe!

[Mike F]

You can see their trades here: http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/GM_list



Going through those trades. . . . I hope there are some write in options after round 7, because 8th place will be way too high for Doug Risebrough

[Jacks]

For those too lazy to follow the links. (Fletcher not included since he's winning this round).

Doug Risebrough May 16, 1991 – November 3, 1995

Notable trades
Brian MacLellan for Marc Habscheid
Colin Patterson for futures (nothing?)
Stephane Matteau for Trent Yawney
Doug Gilmour Jamie Macoun Kent Manderville Ric Nattress Rick Wamsley
for Craig Berube Alexander Godynyuk Gary Leeman Michel Petit Jeff Reese
futures (nothing?) for Ken Sabourin
Gary Leeman for Brian Skrudland
Sergei Makarov for 1993 4th round pick
Craig Berube for 5th round pick
Ted Drury Paul Ranheim Gary Suter
for Michael Nylander James Patrick Zarley Zalapski
Mike Vernon for Steve Chiasson
Al MacInnis 1997 4th round pick
for Phil Housley 1996 2nd round 1997 2nd round pick
Robert Svehla Magnus Svensson for 1996 3rd round 1997 4th round pick
Rick Tabaracci for 1995 5th round pick
Frank Musil for 1997 4th round pick

Notable draft picks (200 games played)
1991 Sandy McCarthy
1992 Cory Stillman Robert Svehla Joel Bouchard Jonas Hoglund
1993 Jamie Allison Marty Murray Andreas Karlsson German Titov
1994 Chris Dingman Chris Clark Nils Ekman
1995 Denis Gauthier Clarke Wilm


Al Coates November 3, 1995 – April 11, 2000

Notable trades
Joe Nieuwendyk for Jarome Iginla Corey Millen
Tommy Albelin Cale Hulse Jocelyn Lemieux
for Phil Housley Dan Keczmer
1996 3rd round pick for Dave Gagner
Rick Tabaracci for Aaron Gavey
Robert Reichel for Tyrone Garner Marty McInnis 1997 6th round pick
1998 4th round pick for Rick Tabaracci
Trevor Kidd Gary Roberts for Andrew Cassels JS Giguere
Jonas Hoglund Zarley Zalapski for Val Bure 1998 4th round pick
Rick Tabaracci for 9th round pick
Michael Nylander for Andrei Nazarov
Theoren Fleury Chris Dingman
for Wade Belak Rene Corbet 2000 2nd round pick + futures (Robyn Regehr)
1999 1st round pick 1999 3rd round pick rights to Jan Hlavac
for Marc Savard 1999 1st round pick
2000 3rd round pick for Grant Fuhr
Rocky Thompson for Filip Kuba

Notable draft picks (200 games played)
1996 Derek Morris Steve Begin Toni Lydman Ronald Petrovicky
1997 None
1998 Rico Fata Blair Betts
1999 Oleg Saprykin Craig Anderson


Craig Button June 6, 2000 – April 11, 2003

Notable trades
JS Giguere for 2000 2nd round pick
Dan Cavanaugh 2001 8th round pick for Mike Vernon
Andrei Nazarov 2001 2nd round pick for Jordan Leopold
Cory Stillman for Craig Conroy 2001 7th round pick
Val Bure Jason Weimer for Rob Niedermayer 2001 2nd round pick
Fred Brathwaite Daniel Tkaczuk Sergei Varlamov 2001 9th round pick
for Roman Turek 2001 4th round pick
2004 4th round pick for Dean McAmmond
2002 9th round pick for Jamie McLennan
2003 3rd round pick for rights to Curtis Joseph
Dean McAmmond Derek Morris Jeff Shantz
for Chris Drury Stephane Yelle
Marc Savard for Ruslan Zainullin
2004 3rd round pick for Andrew Ference
Rob Niedermayer for Mike Commodore JF Damphousse
Dean McAmmond for 2003 5th round pick

Notable draft picks (200 games played)
2000 Kurtis Foster Travis Moen
2001 Chuck Kobasew David Moss
2002 Eric Nystrom Matt Lombardi


Darryl Sutter April 11, 2003 – December 28, 2010

Notable trades
Steve Begin Chris Drury for Steven Reinprecht Rhett Warrener
2nd round pick for Mikka Kiprusoff
Jason Morgan 6th round pick for Ville Nieminen
Blair Betts Jamie McLennan Greg Moore
for Chris Simon 2004 7th round pick
2004 2nd round pick for Marcus Nilson
Denis Gauthier Oleg Saprykin for Daymond Langkow
Mike Commodore for 2005 3rd round pick
Dustin Johner Steve Montador for Kristian Huselius
Jordan Leopold 2006 2nd round pick 2007 conditional pick for Alex Tanguay
Jamie Lundmark 2007 4th round pick 2008 2nd round pick for Craig Conroy
Andrew Ference Chuck Kobasew
for Wayne Primeau Brad Stuart 2008 4th round pick (#114-T.J. Brodie)
2008 1st round pick 2009 2nd round pick
for Michael Cammalleri 2008 2nd round pick
Alex Tanguay 2008 5th round pick for 2008 1st round pick 2009 2nd round pick
2010 2nd round pick for Rene Bourque
Lawrence Nycholat Ryan Wilson 2009 2nd round pick for Jordan Leopold
Matthew Lombardi Brandon Prust 2010 1st round pick
for Olli Jokinen 2009 3rd round pick (#67-Josh Birkholz)
2009 3rd round pick rights to Jordan Leopold for rights to Jay Bouwmeester
Jim Vandermeer for Brandon Prust
Wayne Primeau 2011 2nd round (#43-Brandon Saad)
for Anton Stralman Colin Stuart 2012 7th round pick
Anton Stralman for 2010 3rd round pick
Dion Phaneuf Keith Aulie Fredrik Sjostrom
for Niklas Hagman Jamal Mayers Matt Stajan Ian White
Olli Jokinen Brandon Prust for Chris Higgins Ales Kotalik
Brett Sutter Ian White for Anton Babchuk Tom Kostopoulos

Notable draft picks (200 games played)
2003 Dion Phaneuf
2004 Brandon Prust Dustin Boyd Adam Pardy
2005 None
2006 None
(100 games played)
2007 Mikael Backlund Keith Aulie
2008 Lance Bouma TJ Brodie
(50 games played)
2009 Tim Erixon
(Too soon to tell)
2010 Bill Arnold Micheal Ferland


Jay Feaster December 28, 2010 – December 12, 2013

Notable trades
Tim Erixon 2011 5th round pick
for Roman Horak 2011 2nd round pick (#45-Markus Granlund) 2011 2nd round pick (#57-Tyler Wotherspoon)
Ales Kotalik Robyn Regehr 2012 2nd round pick
for Chris Butler Paul Byron
Daymond Langkow for Lee Stempniak
Rene Bourque Patrick Holland 2013 2nd round pick
for Michael Cammalleri Karri Ramo 2012 5th round pick
Jordan Henry 2013 5th round pick for rights to Dennis Wideman
Jarome Iginla for Ken Agostino Ben Hanowski 2013 1st round pick
Jay Bouwmeester for Mark Cundari Reto Berra 2013 1st round pick
Alex Tanguay Cory Sarich for David Jones Shane O`Brien
2014 5th round pick for Kris Russell
2015 4th round pick for Joe Colborne
Roman Horak Laurent Brossoit for Ladislav Smid Olivier Roy

Notable draft picks
2011 Sven Baertschi Markus Granlund Tyler Wotherspoon John Gaudreau Laurent Brossoit
2012 Mark Jankowski Jon Gillies
2013 Sean Monahan Emile Poirier Morgan Klimchuk


Brian Burke December 12, 2013 – April 28, 2014

Notable trades
Greg Nemisz for Kevin Westgarth
Lee Stempniak for 3rd round pick
Reto Berra for 2014 2nd round pick


Brad Treliving April 28, 2014 – Present

Notable trades
2014 3rd round pick for Brandon Bollig
Corban Knight for Drew Shore
Curtis Glencross for 2015 2nd round pick 2015 3rd round pick
Sven Baertschi for 2015 2nd round pick
2015 1st round pick 2015 2nd round pick x2 for Dougie Hamilton

Notable draft picks
Sam Bennett - Everyone else way too soon to tell

[Vulcan]

One thing forgotten is that Fletcher had no salary cap, and unlimited funds for the most part from the Flames owners, and thus the Flames through the mid to late 80's were in the top 5 of salaries.

Absolutely robbed some teams, like St. Louis a couple times, but it was more for budgetary reasons on St. Louis than anything else.

He also had great success with Atlanta as an expansion franchise where his pockets weren't so deep.

My second pick is Darryl with Treliving moving up. Sutter did some great things for this franchise and I look at his last moves as desperate to hang onto his job considering it was make the playoffs or else.

Coates was okay but you definitely knew we were a second class franchise. The others were mostly terrible.

[JohnnyB]

Coates did a better job than he gets credit for, particularly given the economics of the team at the time. I'm not sure I can rank Darryl #2 as a GM due to both his poor draft record (mainly in the 1st round) and his 1 week of madness. I may put Coates there.

edit: nevermind. Clearly some misremembering.

[Steve Bozek]

Risebrough has to be at the very bottom of the pile. Aside from the Gilmour/Macoun trade for 5 players whose combined value didn't match either Gilmour or Macoun, the following stand out as illustrations of incompetence:

Gary Leeman for Brian Skrudland. - on the surface, a great trade of a dog for a character player, but Risebrough then left Skrudland unprotected in the expansion draft, and Skrudland was lost after only playing a few games for the Flames

Sergei Makarov for 1993 4th round pick. Awful.

Ted Drury Paul Ranheim Gary Suter for lesser but serviceable players. The blunder here was that Suter was being traded so the Flames would be able to keep Macinnis, as they didn't have the budget for both top level defensemen. Risebrough then decided they couldn't afford Macinnis,so they ended up losing both.