Corey Pronman's Top 100 Prospects

[Ashasx]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/insider/story/_/id/13409426/nhl-connor-mcdavid-jack-eichel-lead-list-top-100-prospects?ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_Pronman_Top100pros pects2015

Skaters:

5. Sam Bennett
35. Oliver Kylington
63. Emile Poirier
85. Brandon Hickey

http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/insider/story/_/id/13417169/nhl-ranking-top-10-nhl-goalie-prospects?ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_Pronman_TopGoalieP rospects2015

Goalies (separate list):

8. Jon Gillies

[Robbob]

Out of curiosity, not an insider, I am guessing McJesus and Eichel are 1 and 2. Who landed in the 3rd and 4th?

[Ashasx]

Reinhart is 3 and Marner 4

[Poe969]

Surprising Reinhart and Marner are above Bennett. I mean Reinhart looked pretty bad in his limited NHL time and I don't know if Marner has proven nearly as much as either of them. That's just my opinion though.

[Huntingwhale]

To be fair Marner had a pretty stellar season last year, and Bennett was injured for most of it. Marner was also drafted by Toronto (ie more coverage).

[Ashasx]

I think Pronman mentioned a while ago that he flip flopped on Reinhart-Bennett after Reinhart's WJC performance.

Though I do find it a little odd because Pronman was very high on Bennett last year, and short of one tournament, Bennett has been far more impressive.

To me Marner is not a surprise. He's exactly the kind of player (kind of like Nylander) that Pronman gushes over.

[Vinny01]

With the way 18 year old Sam Bennett stepped into the Flames lineup in the playoffs it is surprising he is not higher on the list. Oh well I get the feeling it will be him and McEichel in a 3 horse race for the Calder

[Keselke]

Would it be possible to post the entire list

[dustygoon]

"Killington" but no Magnus?

[Strange Brew]

He obviously thinks Kylington was a major steal. 60th pick in most recent draft now 35th best prospect in all of hockey. Little disappointed Klimchuk doesn't make top 100.

[Enoch Root]

Pronman has always loved the flashy little guys and over-rates them. Guy like Shinkaruk and Nylander (didn't he have Nylander #1 last year?) So him having Marner that high is no surprise.

Between Reinhart, Marner and Bennett, I know who I would take as an NHL prospect. And it isn't close.

[Street Pharmacist]

Would it be possible to post the entire list
I'm sure the author wouldn't appreciate it as is behind a paywall for a reason. I'll answer any questions though

[bax]

I don't always agree with Pronman's rankings, but at least he is consistent with his evaluations.

[Robbob]

Pronman has always loved the flashy little guys and over-rates them. Guy like Shinkaruk and Nylander (didn't he have Nylander #1 last year?) So him having Marner that high is no surprise.

Between Reinhart, Marner and Bennett, I know who I would take as an NHL prospect. And it isn't close.

I would put Bennett's playoff performance ahead of anything the other two did. An 18 year old in the NHL playoffs. The competition doesn't really get any harder then that.

[ricardodw]

and no complaints about Jankowski not making the list?

Not that this list has any credibility outside of the top 10 but it would be interesting to see some sort of independent non-biased central scouting prospect list to see where the Flames prospects rank.

[Street Pharmacist]

and no complaints about Jankowski not making the list?

Not that this list has any credibility outside of the top 10 but it would be interesting to see some sort of independent non-biased central scouting prospect list to see where the Flames prospects rank.
Why would anyone complain that our 6th ranked prospect is in the top 100?

[ricardodw]

Last years CP Thread (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=139059&highlight=NHL+prospects) on Pronman's prospect picks:


1. Drouin
2. Ekblad
3. Sam Bennett
4. Nylander
5. Reinhart
6. Ehlers
7. Fiala
8. Draisaitl
9. Dal Colle
10. Kuzneztov
42. Johnny Gaudreau

No credibility at all he missed Jooris!!

[MrMastodonFarm]

and no complaints about Jankowski not making the list?

Not that this list has any credibility outside of the top 10 but it would be interesting to see some sort of independent non-biased central scouting prospect list to see where the Flames prospects rank.
This makes no sense.

[Poe969]

Janko looks like a decent prospect but not a great one. I think he has a lot of potential but I don't think this list is biased because he isn't in there. I don't 100% agree with the list but I don't think it's that bad. It's not like they have any really good prospect extremely low or any longshot extremely high. If anything, this list got me more excited over Buzz!

[RyZ]

I have always found Pronman better with profiles than he is with rankings. He generally has a major hard on for small, soft, skilled players which isnt a bad thing but he normally discounts guys that play a heavier game. He has his bias and it shows in his lists.

I remember in the offseason he put out a list that had Nylander and Fiala high in the top 10 and then Button put out a list the next day that had Nylander at 19 and Fiala not in the top 30. You have to remember those kinds of things when browsing Pronmans rankings.

[Goodlad]

and no complaints about Jankowski not making the list?

Not that this list has any credibility outside of the top 10 but it would be interesting to see some sort of independent non-biased central scouting prospect list to see where the Flames prospects rank.

I like that you bring up Jankowski, as though we should be outraged by his exclusion, but ignore the fact that Kylington was ranked #35 on Pronman's list. Any comment on that after railing against how high he was ranked on CP's list?

[Hackey]

Ya ricardo. Explain yourself.

[ricardodw]

I like that you bring up Jankowski, as though we should be outraged by his exclusion, but ignore the fact that Kylington was ranked #35 on Pronman's list. Any comment on that after railing against how high he was ranked on CP's list?

Would you care to comment on how , according to Pronman, CP as a whole got Kylington so wrong? He is our 2nd best prospect according to Pronman. Pronman currently has Kylington notionally better than Gaudreau was after winning the Hobey Baker and then being a top player on team USA at the Men's World Championship of Hockey.

For crying out loud Jankowski is going to be the best player picked in the 2012 draft..... he is ranked #6 by CP vote ... when Jankowski was being picked #6 there were only 32 CPers who thought that Kylington was a better prospect.

[jg13]

I find it hard to believe there are 7 better goalie prospects than Gillies.

[bob-loblaw]

Where does he ranks the Flames prospect pool now? On the ENG2 thread he ranked the Oilers as having the best prospect pool because of those McDavid and Draisatl (more so McDavid).Curious to know where Leon or any other Oiler prospects show up on this list.

[Street Pharmacist]

Where does he ranks the Flames prospect pool now? On the ENG2 thread he ranked the Oilers as having the best prospect pool because of those McDavid and Draisatl (more so McDavid).Curious to know where Leon or any other Oiler prospects show up on this list.
Flames 9th:

9. Although the Flames graduated Calder finalist Johnny Gaudreau, strong seasons from Emile Poirier and Brandon Hickey, among others, and a strong 2015 draft, despite the fact that they had no first-rounder, keep the system stable from a year ago. One would imagine the Flames are going to start to move some of their top prospects, such as Poirier and Sam Bennett, to the NHL next season, which will potentially put a floor under any type of regression from the big club.

Draisaitl isn't considered a prospect by his definition because of NHL games played. He specifically said if you remove McDavid they have a couple good defensive prospects and very little else, and would be average.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

I like how Weisborod/Feaster's comments about Jankowski becoming the #1 player in the 2012 draft get brought up as if they mean anything at all. Those dudes got fired for saying/doing stupid stuff like that. What else do you want?

[Red Menace]

I said Kylington was our 2nd best prospect over and over agin in the prospect threads and that an independent analysis would have him much higher than the 10th place that the CP mob rated him.
Excited to see him develop.

[Badgers Nose]

Keep ranking Bennett behind those bums. We will see who gets a Cup ring first.

[Badgers Nose]

#### regression. Flames are going to be a 105 point team. If not higher.

[herashak]

I said Kylington was our 2nd best prospect over and over agin in the prospect threads and that an independent analysis would have him much higher than the 10th place that the CP mob rated him.
Excited to see him develop.

He had dougie Hamilton behind prospects like grimaldi, beaulieu, and McNeil in 2011. This is just like his opinion, man.

[burnitdown]

He had dougie Hamilton behind prospects like grimaldi, beaulieu, and McNeil in 2011. This is just like his opinion, man.

You mean to tell me that one person's personal ranking of prospects won't be 100% accurate?!

[ScorchyScorch]

I wonder what kind of player Poirier becomes. Looked really strong in the 2013-14 camp, and more like a guy just getting the hang of things this past season. Looked strong in the AHL though. I hope he reaches his ceiling of a top 6 RW that can hit and skate like the wind. Just looks like he's going to take a longer amount of time as opposed to special cases like Monahan and Bennett. I hope he escalates his game and doesn't level off as an AHL guy. I'm excited for Klimchuk though, I think he'll become a useful middle 6 NHLer that can put up 40pts+ in a season or two.

[Hackey]

Poirier becoming a top 6 would be huge for the organization. I definitely think we still need more forward depth despite us scoring a lot of goals last season. 3 lines that score is obviously ideal. Also no guarantee we keep Hudler and he could leave a big hole in that top 6.

[heep223]

I'm excited for Klimchuk though, I think he'll become a useful middle 6 NHLer that can put up 40pts+ in a season or two.

Re: Klimchuk, funny enough I think the best comparable as to his ceiling is Frolik. Maybe they'll be linemates!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Would you care to comment on how , according to Pronman, CP as a whole got Kylington so wrong?

Quit dodging the question and try answering it.

To your question, yeah, Pronman has Kylington ranked highly, but he also had Kabanov as his #4 prospect a couple years ago and had Gaudreau down at 44. Speaks volumes as to his ability to see talent.

He is our 2nd best prospect according to Pronman. Pronman currently has Kylington notionally better than Gaudreau was after winning the Hobey Baker and then being a top player on team USA at the Men's World Championship of Hockey. Okay, so Pronman doesn't have a clue? I think that has been established. He easily falls in love with certain players and doesn't budge off of them. If Pronman is such a genius when it comes to player evaluation why isn't he the most sought out scout by every team in the league? Scouts get hired all the time, and Pronman hasn't been offered a gig. Maybe he isn't that well respected for his opinions?

On Kylington, and your desire to blow him up into some great future player, well ahead of many players who have already proven they are capable of taking the next step in their development, consider that every team in the NHL passed on him TWICE. The Flames picked him at 60! Says a lot.

For crying out loud Jankowski is going to be the best player picked in the 2012 draft..... he is ranked #6 by CP vote ... when Jankowski was being picked #6 there were only 32 CPers who thought that Kylington was a better prospect.Yup, only 6 people thought Kylington was worthy of a selection at that point. Again, that speaks volumes. Kylington fell like a rock the last year, and for good reasons. The kid has talent, but he is a long shot. Consider where the Flames took him, that was great time to pick a project with home run potential. The key word there is potential. He's got all the skills to be Paul Coffey, but he also has the head and work ethic to be Bryan Fogarty. There odds of him becoming a NHL pro are stacked against him, and every team in the NHL made that evaluation by passing on him.

[ricardodw]

Quit dodging the question and try answering it.

To your question, yeah, Pronman has Kylington ranked highly, but he also had Kabanov as his #4 prospect a couple years ago and had Gaudreau down at 44. Speaks volumes as to his ability to see talent.

Okay, so Pronman doesn't have a clue? I think that has been established. He easily falls in love with certain players and doesn't budge off of them. If Pronman is such a genius when it comes to player evaluation why isn't he the most sought out scout by every team in the league? Scouts get hired all the time, and Pronman hasn't been offered a gig. Maybe he isn't that well respected for his opinions?

On Kylington, and your desire to blow him up into some great future player, well ahead of many players who have already proven they are capable of taking the next step in their development, consider that every team in the NHL passed on him TWICE. The Flames picked him at 60! Says a lot.

Yup, only 6 people thought Kylington was worthy of a selection at that point. Again, that speaks volumes. Kylington fell like a rock the last year, and for good reasons. The kid has talent, but he is a long shot. Consider where the Flames took him, that was great time to pick a project with home run potential. The key word there is potential. He's got all the skills to be Paul Coffey, but he also has the head and work ethic to be Bryan Fogarty. There odds of him becoming a NHL pro are stacked against him, and every team in the NHL made that evaluation by passing on him.

Even in the context of this page where Goodlad correctly identifies that I am not on the Kylington bandwagon you have totally misunderstood my mocking the prospect ratings.


Goodlad: Any comment on that after railing against how high he was ranked on CP's list?


I am not on the Jankowski bandwagon. I do not think he will ever be signed by the Flames as a 2nd round compensation pick will be better OR if he has some sort of Hobey Baker year he will just wait a couple of months and sign with a team where he won't be in competition with Stajan/Arnold to be the #4 centre.


In my opinion Pronman rating Kylington in the top 100 is a totally grandstanding move that I can not at all understand or find a modicum of hockey logic in it.

At least Red Menace and Dammage79 have the built in illogical reasoning of being Flames Fanboys...

Pronman is just putting out a ridiculous long shot that might show him superior to the NHL scouts that make a reasonable living by evaluating young hockey talent.

I guess I can identify a bit with Pronman that as I have put down $20 in Vegas on Flames winning the SC in 2013 and 2014. The payout being 500 to 1. I like Pronman knew that the penalty for such an outlandish wager/prediction would not be severe.

[Red Menace]

Don't quite understand how ranking one Flames prospect ahead of another Flames prospect makes one a "flames fanboy"? Or even what that phrase is supposed to imply?
I certainly don't agree with Pronman all of the time and no one would call him a Flames fan at all but he has lots of credibility.
Bob McKenzie for one considers him one of if not the best prospect expert in the business.
Of course he is often wrong, as is anyone in the business of predicting future success.

[66Dukester]

While I have always thought that Pronmans prospect rankings were among the best available, I realize that it is one mans opinion. While slightly disappointed that Bennett is at 6, I am thrilled with the Kylington and Hickey rankings.
Reading his next post however that ranks Edmonton as having the best prospect pool in the league significantly effects his credibility in my opinion

[jayswin]

Holy crap New Era, Ricardodw is being completely ridiculous and deserves to be called out for his goofy mocking of "CP" (we're all one poster if you weren't aware) and yet you come in and somehow up the ridiculousness by not even catching why he's being ridiculous.

This is a huge fail thread and everyone should feel shame. Everybody disembark the fail thread and try again somewhere else, there is no more fail available to capture here, folks. It's all gone. ;)

[ricardodw]

Holy crap New Era, Ricardodw is being completely ridiculous and deserves to be called out for his goofy mocking of "CP" (we're all one poster if you weren't aware) and yet you come in and somehow up the ridiculousness by not even catching why he's being ridiculous.

This is a huge fail thread and everyone should feel shame. Everybody disembark the fail thread and try again somewhere else, there is no more fail available to capture here, folks. It's all gone. ;)

Yep you topped the fail thread flameswin!!! Congratulations....


I was not mocking CP as a group....

I was mocking Pronman ranking Kylington so very much ridiculously higher than his current potential allows.


Pronman has him ranked a lot higher than Poirier Only 7 CP people had Kylington picked as our 2nd best prospect.... 133 had Poirier.

So other than: dammage79, Jiggy_12, keenan87, Red Menace, Seitse, VladtheImpaler, Vox

I am able to speak for CP as a whole (about 350 voters) that we think Poirier (or someone else) is a much better prospect than Kylington. Only 13 think he is a better prospect than Gillies.

[dammage79]

Yep you topped the fail thread flameswin!!! Congratulations....


I was not mocking CP as a group....

I was mocking Pronman ranking Kylington so very much ridiculously higher than his current potential allows.


Pronman has him ranked a lot higher than Poirier Only 7 CP people had Kylington picked as our 2nd best prospect.... 133 had Poirier.

So other than: dammage79, Jiggy_12, keenan87, Red Menace, Seitse, VladtheImpaler, Vox

I am able to speak for CP as a whole (about 350 voters) that we think Poirier (or someone else) is a much better prospect than Kylington. Only 13 think he is a better prospect than Gillies.

My guess is Kylington will be the #1 ranked prospect after this next season. If not for Sam Bennett I'd have ranked Kylington #1. There's simply too much talent in that kid to deny his proper rank amongst the rest of the Flames stable.
His deficiencies are ones that can be fixed by good developmental coaching. His skill, speed and talent cannot. And there really is no one else like him in the system. Treliving seems to think so.

Just watch, one full healthy season in NA for Kylington and the CP "collective" will be singing a whole different tune when it comes to the next summer prospect poll.

I love the fact the Pronman recognizes that one injury plagued season does not ruin a kids career. I usually disagree with the guy on a regular basis but for once I like that he shares my belief for the right reasons.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Holy crap New Era, Ricardodw is being completely ridiculous and deserves to be called out for his goofy mocking of "CP" (we're all one poster if you weren't aware) and yet you come in and somehow up the ridiculousness by not even catching why he's being ridiculous.

This is a huge fail thread and everyone should feel shame. Everybody disembark the fail thread and try again somewhere else, there is no more fail available to capture here, folks. It's all gone. ;)

Yup, completely missed it. I feel shame. So should the others that missed it too. :bag:

[Rick M.]

My guess is Kylington will be the #1 ranked prospect after this next season. If not for Sam Bennett I'd have ranked Kylington #1. There's simply too much talent in that kid to deny his proper rank amongst the rest of the Flames stable.
His deficiencies are ones that can be fixed by good developmental coaching. His skill, speed and talent cannot. And there really is no one else like him in the system. Treliving seems to think so.

Just watch, one full healthy season in NA for Kylington and the CP "collective" will be singing a whole different tune when it comes to the next summer prospect poll.

I love the fact the Pronman recognizes that one injury plagued season does not ruin a kids career. I usually disagree with the guy on a regular basis but for once I like that he shares my belief for the right reasons.

I'm with you; I'm getting a Karlsson 2.0 vibe off this kid. He has his offensive game already. Surely the Flames can teach him to be decent defensively (assuming he's at all coachable). Of course, I could be delusional.

[simmer2]

Can anyone post the full list?

[Street Pharmacist]

Can anyone post the full list?
No, I don't think he'd appreciate that

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Reinhart is 3 and Marner 4


Lowe and MacT make eye contact, synchronized fist pumps while jumping in the air and clicking their heels together.

Nobody tells them it's not Griffin, even ChiaPet doesn't have the heart to tell them.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Lotsa folks getting too wrapped up in one man's list. Think about how many moving pieces are involved here.. Siphoning your list down to 100, Seeing all of these guys play enough to actually form intelligent (sounding) breakdowns and rankings for them.

Not being able to see guys head to head is a massive roadblock, especially when you add variables like age/years of experience, quality of systems they're both playing and being deceloped in, personal preference for how insidiously qualities are weighted to come up with his "ideal" player.. Hell, the QoC and many other factors between all of these developmental leagues are all over the map.

I just like seeing some Flames names on the list, enjoy seeing what some of our nemesis' teams have moving forward, and maybe start a list of names to start spitballing around in proposals seeing as we have some extremely valuable assets that some feel we may not retain.

Cool list

[darthma]

Pronman is legit, so his list is worth discussing. It's nice to see some Flames prospects on the list!

I did a bit of googling, and found Vancouver's prospects that made the list:
27. Virtanen
69. Brock Boeser
74. Hunter Shinkaruk

This made me happy when you compare it to our list.
5. Sam Bennett
35. Oliver Kylington
63. Emile Poirier
85. Brandon Hickey

Also note that he has Poirier on the list above Shinkaruk. hehe

[Ashasx]

I'm surprised Shinkaruk is even still on the list.

[RyZ]

I'm surprised Shinkaruk is even still on the list.

Agreed. If Shinkaruk doesnt double his production in the AHL next season he moves closer to the "complete bust" side rather than even the "fringe prospect" side that he currently occupies. He's a player that squarely fits the mould of top 6 or nothing.

[dustygoon]

Shinkaruk above Hickey is also funny. BT was heard saying he was getting a lot of inbound trade interest from other GM's on Hickey. How many calls does Benning get on Shinkaruk? Other than Shinkaruks agent.

[neo45]

Why does this forum care so much about Shinkaruk? We chose not to draft him, it's not like he slighted the team. He gets mentioned like he is Tim Erixon in every prospects thread



Virtanen was a way worse pick given the circumstances

[Parallex]

Why does this forum care so much about Shinkaruk?

Because...

A: He was once highly touted to the extent that he was thought to potentially be a top 10 pick,

B: He was a local kid,

C: He was drafted right after Poirier...

D: ... By a rival organization

That Poirier was something of an unknown (and considered a reach by some at the time) adds to it as well. A lot of people thought at the time that Feaster (and by extention the Flames) had made a blunder by not taking Shinkaruk. They didn't.

[codynw]

Why does this forum care so much about Shinkaruk? We chose not to draft him, it's not like he slighted the team. He gets mentioned like he is Tim Erixon in every prospects thread



Virtanen was a way worse pick given the circumstances

Yea, no way is Virtanen gonna live up to his draft position. He'll play in the NHL, but he won't be the player many thought he would be.

[Fire]

Why does this forum care so much about Shinkaruk? We chose not to draft him, it's not like he slighted the team. He gets mentioned like he is Tim Erixon in every prospects thread



Virtanen was a way worse pick given the circumstances

The rumour is that he didn't want to be drafted by the Flames.

[Macho0978]

Can soemone post where the Oilers prospect rank?

[Street Pharmacist]

Can soemone post where the Oilers prospect rank?
1. McDavid
20. Darnell Nurse
56. Griffen Reinhart

[RyZ]

1. McDavid
20. Darnell Nurse
56. Griffen Reinhart

No Draisaitl?

[Street Pharmacist]

No Draisaitl?
Didn't fit the criteria. Too many NHL games played

[Poe969]

Didn't fit the criteria. Too many NHL games played

I thought Shultz would be on this list for that reason, he hasn't played many games at an NHL level at all.