In Goal Magazine Top 50 Prospects [Archive] - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GranteedEV

08-12-2015, 04:24 PM

Fair, though I'd disagree with Demko over McDonald. I wouldn't trade McDonald for Demko.

On a side note, #7 Ville Husso was drafted with the same pick we gave up for Joe Colborne. Interesting it turned out pretty well for... St. Louis :blink:

Fire of the Phoenix

08-12-2015, 04:25 PM

#10 for Gillies? Really? What else does the guy have to do? Lead his team in scoring? Maybe I'm being a homer but I would have Gillies ahead of a few of those guys, namely Samsonov, Comrie, Husso and Fucale. You could make a case for Gillies against the others as well, but it's basically too close to call. It looks like to me Gillies is the victim of his draft status.

GranteedEV

08-12-2015, 04:39 PM

It looks like to me Gillies is the victim of his draft status.

Gillies was a 75th OA pick. Hellybuyck was 130th, Murray was 83rd, Saros was 99th, Husso was 94th, and McIntyre was 165th OA.

Fire of the Phoenix

08-12-2015, 04:49 PM

Gillies was a 75th OA pick. Hellybuyck was 130th, Murray was 83rd, Saros was 99th, Husso was 94th, and McIntyre was 165th OA.

K you got me. Still not sure what makes most of those guys better. The guys who dominated in the AHL post draft, I get. But guys just drafted or who are less proven than Gillies?

Fire of the Phoenix

08-12-2015, 04:49 PM

double post

codynw

08-12-2015, 05:01 PM

Fucale isn't that good.

GranteedEV

08-12-2015, 05:07 PM

K you got me. Still not sure what makes most of those guys better. The guys who dominated in the AHL post draft, I get. But guys just drafted or who are less proven than Gillies?

From what I can tell, it's a goaltending magazine. They're actively scouting the strengths and weaknesses of the players. They probably know a lot more about these guys than we do. I don't think Gillies has really proven anything himself - his stats look nice but they're not all that unique at that level of play:

Rk Name GP SV%
1 Alex Lyon, So, Yale 32 .939
Ryan Massa, Sr, Nebraska-Omaha 29 .939
3 Kyle Hayton, Fr, St. Lawrence 36 .937
4 Jayson Argue, Fr, Bentley 20 .934
5 Jamie Phillips, Jr, Michigan Tech 41 .933
6 Matt Ginn, Sr, Holy Cross 31 .931
7 Jon Gillies, Jr, Providence 39 .930
Terry Shafer, Jr, Robert Morris 16 .930
Keegan Asmundson, Sr, Canisius 26 .930
Jake Hildebrand, Jr, Michigan State 35 .930
11 Michael Bitzer, Fr, Bemidji State 28 .929
Zane McIntyre, Jr, North Dakota 42 .929
Rasmus Tirronen, Sr, Merrimack 31 .929

From USCHO.com

He played well in the NCAA tournament but it's not like he was flawless. He let in 3 goals against BU in the Championship game (including a big softie to open), he let in 5 goals against Miami IIRC too.

He hasn't really been great at the International level either.

Jets4Life

08-12-2015, 11:29 PM

#1: HELLEBUYCK

http://storage.winnipegsun.com/v1/dynamic_resize/sws_path/suns-prod-images/1297545758165_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80&size=650x

Strange Brew

08-13-2015, 08:51 AM

Kind of happy we have 2 prospects in top 15. In a 30 team league.

Poe969

08-13-2015, 08:56 AM

I'm surprised oiler fans aren't complaining that McDavid isn't top of this list. I know it's a goalie list but most oiler fans just want to see McDavid at the top of every prospect list...

Having 2 in the top 15 is pretty awesome and I wonder where Ortio would land if he was eligible. It's pretty awesome having these guys coming up but man wouldn't it be great if one of them was ready to take the next step this season!

GioforPM

08-13-2015, 09:02 AM

I have no idea if this is correct but I suspect that if you go back over the years these lists are pretty hit and miss. I imagine Price was highly ranked. I imagine Hasek was not. I'd bet Trevor Kidd was very highly ranked.

Hackey

08-13-2015, 09:03 AM

It is nice to have options. Goalies are so difficult to predict it doesn't hurt to have a bunch of solid goalie prospects. Hopefully one of these guys is our future starter. It will be interesting to see how Treliving addresses our goaie situation in the next couple of years. Kicking tires on Talbot and Lehner made sense because both these guys likely could be decent starters for you with the possibility that they break out. If not you still have a decent tender while you buy the kids some time. Prices were high though so glad we stayed away.

Bingo

08-13-2015, 09:05 AM

Interesting to see Brossoit at 29 given the fact that the Flames had to make a decision on prospect depth with that Oiler trade a few years ago. The Flames felt Brossoit was 3rd on their list behind Ortio and Gillies, and now two years later it appears he still is, plus McDonald is ahead of him.

Important as this in the kind of thing that puts organizations ahead ... making the right call when you get some beef to your prospect depth. You have to keep the right guys.

ricardodw

08-13-2015, 09:26 AM

Enoch Root

08-13-2015, 09:43 AM

If the stories around the draft were correct the Flames management have evaluated Gillies (and Ortio) closer to the this list than CP has ranked Gillies.

Rumors had it that the Flames were interested in Talbot, Lehrner and Jones.... Not like a team totally sold on Ortio/Gillies as #1 in the next couple of years.

Interesting that McDonald is ranked about the same #12 on the CP list as the #15 on the Goalie list.

Would have CP put on the homer glasses and jumped on the McDonald bandwagon if we hadn't already said that we had 2 of our top 5 prospects were goalies.
Gillies is at least 2 years away.

Looking for another goalie was more of a reflection of their plans for Hiller and Ramo, not their long term expectations of Ortio and Gillies.

Also, the organization literally only had 3 goalies under contract before they signed Ramo.

Even without injuries, they need 4 just to staff the two teams. 5 would be preferred.

Robbob

08-13-2015, 09:51 AM

I also think all the rumors about the flames with various players (all the goalies, Richards, etc) had a lot to do with Treliving keeping tabs on the market. He is a very active GM.

bax

08-13-2015, 11:10 AM

If the stories around the draft were correct the Flames management have evaluated Gillies (and Ortio) closer to the this list than CP has ranked Gillies.

Rumors had it that the Flames were interested in Talbot, Lehrner and Jones.... Not like a team totally sold on Ortio/Gillies as #1 in the next couple of years.

Interesting that McDonald is ranked about the same #12 on the CP list as the #15 on the Goalie list.

Would have CP put on the homer glasses and jumped on the McDonald bandwagon if we hadn't already said that we had 2 of our top 5 prospects were goalies.

No team should be totally sold on their goalie prospects becoming legitimate number 1's. They are prospects and goalies are even harder to predict than players. If it happens great, but you need to have a back up plan

Bingo

08-13-2015, 11:29 AM

Yeah I don't see a single connection between the Flames kicking tires on goaltenders and their view on the quality of their of their goaltending prospects.

When you make the playoffs ahead of schedule and have break outs from young players you have to at least look at upgrading a position that in its current term is average. The Flames goaltending was just that.

Gillies by all trends will take 3 years to be the man, guys they added this June would just fill in that gap.

Erick Estrada

08-13-2015, 11:51 AM

Fucale isn't that good.

I admit to not watching him play outside of national coverage but you would expect a top prospect to play his best in the big games but he wasn't very good at all in the Memorial Cup.

Enoch Root

08-13-2015, 11:55 AM

I have never been impressed by Fucale and would lose my mind if we traded Gillies for him straight up. I wouldn't do it if they threw in a 3rd round pick, or even a late 2nd.

Poe969

08-13-2015, 12:05 PM

I don't think Fucale is that bad but I don't think he has a future with the Canadians. Before the coil picked up Talbot, I thought for sure they'd go after Fucale in a deal for Yakapov.

Bingo

08-19-2015, 10:01 AM

HockeyWriters with their rankings ... McDonald way up the list

http://thehockeywriters.com/hockeys-next-ones-top-30-nhl-goalie-prospects/

Vulcan

08-19-2015, 10:09 AM

McDonald at 5 and Gillies at 8 is pretty decent and shows they are progressing.

RyZ

08-19-2015, 10:13 AM

HockeyWriters with their rankings ... McDonald way up the list

http://thehockeywriters.com/hockeys-next-ones-top-30-nhl-goalie-prospects/

Oooh. I like this list even better. They have the Flames with 2 of the top 8 goaltending prospects. Either way, there is a pretty decent chance that at least 1 of Gillies or McDonald turns out to be a legit high end starter for the long term.

Bingo

08-19-2015, 10:28 AM

ricardodw

08-19-2015, 10:42 AM

reading above not sure they made the right call eliminating Ortio.

Under 25 - check
Not NHL established - check

then item 3 about on the roster in the last quarter of the season and not sent back down? not sure on that.

Absolutely no doubt that if the AHL Flames were in the playoffs Ortio would have been sent down to play.

cral12

08-19-2015, 07:39 PM

reading above not sure they made the right call eliminating Ortio.

Under 25 - check
Not NHL established - check

then item 3 about on the roster in the last quarter of the season and not sent back down? not sure on that.

I can speak to this - Ortio was a 'tweener for us. Though we didn't clearly state (and maybe should have), we used 10 NHL GP as baseline guiding factor on lads that we went back and forth on.

darthma

08-19-2015, 08:23 PM

HockeyWriters with their rankings ... McDonald way up the list

http://thehockeywriters.com/hockeys-next-ones-top-30-nhl-goalie-prospects/

Chance to jihad the poll at the bottom of that article... just sayin'

Bingo

08-20-2015, 12:27 PM

I can speak to this - Ortio was a 'tweener for us. Though we didn't clearly state (and maybe should have), we used 10 NHL GP as baseline guiding factor on lads that we went back and forth on.

Any idea where Ortio would have been if he "was" included?

ricardodw

08-22-2015, 07:21 AM

Any idea where Ortio would have been if he "was" included?

Based on his age I would guess that Ortio would not be in the top 25.

Copley at #11 who had a great season in the AHL and Matt O'Connor at #22 who was listed as a "prototypical late bloomer" on a short lease and Kristers Gudlevskis at #24 are 23 year olds ...

Ortio at 24 ... by anyone outside the Flames and CP would have to be considered a good career AHL goalie.

Even Kipper who took his time getting to the NHL was done with the AHL by the time he was 24.

How does ortio stack up with #41 prospect who at age 24 the Rangers picked up for a 6th round pick.
Magnus Hellberg

2nd round, 38th overall in 2011 – 24 years old
38 GP, 2.33 GAA, .913 SV%, 15-10-6 (Milwaukee – AHL)

Ortio Adirondack Flames 37 GP 2.69 0.912 SV% GAA 21-13 -1

Bingo

08-22-2015, 08:42 AM

Ortio at 24 ... by anyone outside the Flames and CP would have to be considered a good career AHL goalie.

I hope you're right if the Flames try and shoe horn him into the AHL this fall.

You should look at that list and see how many have NHL experience, NHL wins, a shut out, and a period of dominant play in the show. I think you'd find he may move up a bit.

I'm not saying Ortio is a given or a saviour, but I think a few teams may have taken notice to his resume last year and may have a higher view of him than you do.

Vulcan

08-22-2015, 09:31 AM

I hope you're right if the Flames try and shoe horn him into the AHL this fall.

You should look at that list and see how many have NHL experience, NHL wins, a shut out, and a period of dominant play in the show. I think you'd find he may move up a bit.

I'm not saying Ortio is a given or a saviour, but I think a few teams may have taken notice to his resume last year and may have a higher view of him than you do.

Yeah, one aspect of judging a goalie or to some degree any player, is how they perform in the NHL. Some can have great minor league stats but can't handle the heat or intensity of the big leagues. So far the Canucks Jacob Markstrom would be an example of this and yet they are counting on him to be a good NHL backup.

getbak

08-22-2015, 09:39 AM

Even Kipper who took his time getting to the NHL was done with the AHL by the time he was 24.
Kipper certainly wasn't "done with the AHL by the time he was 24". He hadn't even played a full period in the NHL by the time he was 24.

Kipper turned 24 on October 26, 2000. He played his first NHL game on October 24, 2000 (less than 14 minutes of playing time). He didn't play his second until four and a half months later, when he was older than Ortio is today. I don't know exactly how many games he played in the AHL after his 24th birthday, but Kipper played 36 AHL games in 2000-01 and 4 in 2001-02.

Ortio turned 24 just prior to the end of last season, on April 16. After his return from injury, he played 2 games in Adirondack after his birthday. Prior to his 24th birthday, he played in 15 NHL games.

Ortio has 8 wins and a shutout in the NHL. Kipper got his first NHL shutout in his 8th NHL win ... 2 months after his 25th birthday.

ricardodw

08-22-2015, 10:34 AM

I hope you're right if the Flames try and shoe horn him into the AHL this fall.

You should look at that list and see how many have NHL experience, NHL wins, a shut out, and a period of dominant play in the show. I think you'd find he may move up a bit.

I'm not saying Ortio is a given or a saviour, but I think a few teams may have taken notice to his resume last year and may have a higher view of him than you do.

Hard to get around the AHL level save % the Ortio has sported at the NHL level.

Pretty obvious (to me anyway) taht the Flames signing Ramo to a 3.8M contract shows that they have very little confidence in Ortio in the NHL.

Da_Chief

08-22-2015, 02:36 PM

Hard to get around the AHL level save % the Ortio has sported at the NHL level.

Pretty obvious (to me anyway) taht the Flames signing Ramo to a 3.8M contract shows that they have very little confidence in Ortio in the NHL.

I agree. Signing of Frolik they showed they have no confidence in Poirier etc. Trading for Hamilton showed no confidence in Wotherspoon etc.

Treiliving isn't that hard to figure out. Simple minded man he is.

Textcritic

08-22-2015, 03:27 PM

Hard to get around the AHL level save % the Ortio has sported at the NHL level.

Pretty obvious (to me anyway) taht the Flames signing Ramo to a 3.8M contract shows that they have very little confidence in Ortio in the NHL.
I'm sure that's how you feel. Then again, many of your opinions about players range from puzzling to down right bizarre, so this is merely par for the course.

I think you are remiss to overlook Ortio's 0.17 % improvement in hisNHL performance this season. He is still quite young (Pekka Rinne did not become a NHL regular until he was 26), so I am supremely confident that Ramo' s one year deal bears virtually no poor reflection of the Flames' opinion and expectations for Ortio.