Hockey's Future ranks Flames Prospect Pool 6th

[sureLoss]

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/107997/team-rankings-deep-and-varied-prospect-pool-vaults-buffalo-sabres-to-top-spot/

Strengths: The Calgary Flames have really strengthened their organizational depth and talent in their prospect pool with their rebuilding effort. They have added leadership, character, physicality, and more speed to their system. The organization possesses a good group of versatile forwards that can play many positions along with some potential high-end talent at the left wing position. The Flames have good NHL caliber goaltending but could use more depth at the position in their farm system.

Weaknesses: The right wing position has little depth and requires an overall upgrade in talent. Despite having a good mix of defensemen, the system lacks a high-end puck-mover in the pipeline. The Flames could also stand to add more depth in net.

[ignite09]

There top five probably doesn't mesh with most on CP, but nice to see them climbing.

[Table 5]

The one reason why Jay Feaster may get a job again in this league. Fault him all you want for his trades (and almost trades), but the guy and his team of scouts did a fantastic job in turning our prospect base into one that shows probably the most promise since the 1980s.

[Table 5]

Also, we need to raid that Buffalo defensive cabinet. They need forwards, we need dmen...come on guys, make it happen.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Also, we need to raid that Buffalo defensive cabinet.

Or the Isles.

[ignite09]

The one reason why Jay Feaster may get a job again in this league. Fault him all you want for his trades (and almost trades), but the guy and his team of scouts did a fantastic job in turning our prospect base into one that shows probably the most promise since the 1980s.

Most of our scouts are still Daryl Sutter scouts are they not?

[J epworth]

There top five probably doesn't mesh with most on CP, but nice to see them climbing.

Take out Knight and put in Gillies and I'd be happy with their top 5, they did a pretty good job with that list.

Surprised they underrate Ortio and Gillies so much though, I agree with them that we need to draft another goalie this draft but it's not like we are extremely lacking in goalie depth for our prospects.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

So much better than in past years. Poirier, Wotherspoon and Klimchuk didn't even given a mention (not that I agree with the stated top 5). Not sure why Chicago is ranked higher, but overall, a pretty good place to be. Need to check HF boards. Heads must be exploding on that board with the news that Calgary has prospects!

[Kavvy]

:whistle:

27. Vancouver Canucks

Strengths: While it has not surfaced yet, the Vancouver Canucks have some deep talent in the CHL that is going to make a difference in the next few years. Bo Horvat, Brendan Gaunce, and Hunter Shinkaruk are going to be relied upon as banner forwards for the Canucks future, and they have done extremely well at the junior level so far. Nicklas Jensen and Jordan Schroeder are also expected to be difference makers and have great potential despite some growing pains in recent years. There are also some potentially useful players mixed into the pool with Yann Sauve, Joseph Labate, and Alexandre Grenier. Frank Corrado has also shown vast improvement recently and looks ready for the NHL on the backend.

Weaknesses: It is all very far away for the Canucks, with their most talented prospects still several years away from contributing to the NHL team. In their current state, they have few impact players ready to compete at the highest level, and lack depth at goaltending and on defense.

Top 5 Prospects: 1. Bo Horvat, C; 2. Nicklas Jensen, RW; 3. Brendan Gaunce, C; 4. Jordan Schroeder, C; 5. Frank Corrado, D.

Key Additions: Jeff Costello (trade-OTT), Dane Fox (free agent), Michael Zalewski (free agent).

Key Losses: Zac Dalpe (graduation), Steven Anthony (trade-FLA), Adam Polasek (released).

Do people agree they should be ranked so low?

[Table 5]

Most of our scouts are still Daryl Sutter scouts are they not?

I believe there has been turnover there too, but even if there wasnt any, it would just show how much directional philosophy at the top can be the difference between success or failure, even if the scouts remain relatively unchanged. Perhaps Feaster told them to look for other qualities, or perhaps he left it all up to them...but for some reason, the results (at the moment at least) seem to be much better than with Sutter. I know people like to make fun of the guy, but this is one aspect of the Flames where he made a huge positive difference.

[ignite09]

I believe there has been turnover there too, but even if there wasnt any, it would just show how much directional philosophy at the top can be the difference between success or failure, even if the scouts remain relatively unchanged. Perhaps Feaster told them to look for other qualities, or perhaps he left it all up to them...but for some reason, the results (at the moment at least) seem to be much better than with Sutter. I know people like to make fun of the guy, but this is one aspect of the Flames where he made a huge positive difference.

Trading first and second round picks away on what seemed like an almost yearly basis didn't help either.

[sureLoss]

2011 draft were all scouts from the Sutter era. Feaster supposedly had them refocus rankings based on hockey sense as a priority.

After the 2011 draft, Feaster did not renew about 4 scouts contracts and did some more turnover and added more scouting positions in the subsequent years.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Hockey sense became a priority under Sutter. 2010 saw hockey sense as a general theme, but the Flames' drafting philosophy began changing around 2008 IIRC (according to Todd Button).

[sureLoss]

Hockey sense became a priority under Sutter. 2010 saw hockey sense as a general theme, but the Flames' drafting philosophy began changing around 2008 IIRC (according to Todd Button).

it became a growing priority under Sutter, but I truly believe once Feaster took over in 2011 it became THE priority over size, skating etc. which wasn't necessarily a bad thing

IMO Weisbrod refocused it again in 2012 to bring more emphasis back to other qualities.

[EldrickOnIce]

Scary is that perennial powerhouses like Anaheim and Chicago are ranked that high. Cammalleri to Anaheim for something from that pool at deadline would have been nice...

[cannon7]

If HF likes what your organization is doing -- you got problems.

Obviously the organization has some excellent prospects (Gaudreau, Poirier, Gillies, etc.), but we're still going to be in a rebuilding mode for the foreseeable future.

[Parallex]

There top five probably doesn't mesh with most on CP.

With good reason. They got #1 & #2 correct but 3-5 are odd. FWIW I'd have Poirier, Gillies, & Granlund in those spots.

[Bourque's Twin]

The great thing is that we will get to add Reinhart, Bennett, Draisaitl, or Dal Colle to that list (an immediate top 3).

[CaptainCrunch]

:whistle:



Do people agree they should be ranked so low?

Yes, Horvat is a good prospect but he's not an over top prospect, the rest are meh at best.

[TheDebaser]

A little OT here, but I really wonder how good Buffalo is going to be after their rebuild is over. Their prospect pool is ridiculous as it stands, and they're set to pick 10 times in the 1st and 2nd round of the 14/15 drafts. They'll probably get a stellar player out of the 2nd pick overall too.

Next year they won't have Miller, so Eichel and McDavid are real possibilities for them.

[Hackey]

Buffalo is definitely set up very well for a rebuild. All about capitalizing on their opportunities.

[Table 5]

If Buffalo doesn't become a Cup contender within 5 years, they can only blame themselves. The amount of prospects they have is enough to make any fan jealous...the amount of fantastic picks they have in the next couple of drafts, on top of that, just makes it ridiculous.

Their biggest challenge will be to develop all this talent in a meaningful way...but man are they ever set up for good times if they do.

[Vulcan]

My top five prospects would be Gaudreau, Granlund, Ortio, Wotherspoon and Reinhart. There are a lot of close calls though with Baertschi at six but I think any list should have Gaudreau #1.

I kind of look at it as more of a depth chart so younger players like Poirier get the short end.

[Phanuthier]

2011 draft were all scouts from the Sutter era. Feaster supposedly had them refocus rankings based on hockey sense as a priority.

After the 2011 draft, Feaster did not renew about 4 scouts contracts and did some more turnover and added more scouting positions in the subsequent years.
A lot of people think all Darryl's drafts were dumb oafs, but besides 2005 adn 2006, I don't think thats really the case at all. Looking at the Flames picks since 2007, bolding useful names:

2007:
Mikael Backlund
John Negrin
Keith Aulie
Mickey Renaud
CJ Severyn

2008:
Nemisz
Wahl
Bouma
Larson
Brodie
Grandham
Deilert

2009:
Erixon
Howse
Bjorklund
Bennett
Ortio
Patterson

2010:
Max Reinhart
Joey Leach
John Ramage
Bill Arnold
Michael Ferland
Patrick Holland

__________________________________________________ ________

2011: (Darryl's scouts, but Feaster at the helm)
Sven Baertschi
Markus Granlund
Tyler Wotherspoon
John Gaudreau
Brossoit

__________________________________________________

2012:
Mark Jankowski
Patrick Sieloff
John Gillias
Brett Kulak
Ryan Culkin
Coda Gordan
Matt Deblow

2013
Monohan
Porier
Klimchuk
Kanzig
Roy
Harrison
Rafikov
Gilmour



I'm not sure I really see that big of a difference. I think its just an evolution of Flames scouting that got better, not that Feaster had a magic touch or anything.

[d_phaneuf]

:whistle:



Do people agree they should be ranked so low?

Just based on the research they have put in and the errors on it, I put less stock in it than other publications

but in general I would think right now they are anywhere in the 15-25 range

[d_phaneuf]

I'm not sure I really see that big of a difference. I think its just an evolution of Flames scouting that got better, not that Feaster had a magic touch or anything.

hitting picks in rounds 1-3 is a lot better than a few late round gems a year I think is the difference, Feaster looks like has left the team with 3-4 potential top 6 players as well as some depth

where as outside of Brodie and Backlund the picks by Sutter were mostly depth guys (and that's with 4-5 years of development time)

[Phanuthier]

hitting picks in rounds 1-3 is a lot better than a few late round gems a year I think is the difference, Feaster looks like has left the team with 3-4 potential top 6 players as well as some depth

where as outside of Brodie and Backlund the picks by Sutter were mostly depth guys (and that's with 4-5 years of development time)
Well keep in mind the pick of Erixon turned into Granlund and Wotherspoon

Without that, Fester's drafting is Monohan, Porier, Gaudreau..... and whatever Jankowski and Sieloff become. To me, picking Monohan doesn't really make him a draft guru but I'm willing to give him that since its really not worth arguing. Porier and Gaudreau were the great picks, I do agree. Not sure Darryl would have been ok drafting Gaudreau.

[Vulcan]

One problem Sutter had was trading away draft picks especially 2nd rounders so than he'd trade down with his first to get back a 2nd. His drafting record doesn't look so good taken on it's surface but than when you consider it also gave us players like Kiprusoff, it's not so bad.

[wingmaker]

Well keep in mind the pick of Erixon turned into Granlund and Wotherspoon

That isn't really fair. Feaster still had to make the picks count and he deserves full credit. A draft record is a draft record, regardless of how the draft picks were acquired. That is a separate discussion.

Definitely the difference is that the Flames have made their top round picks count the last few years whereas they didn't under Sutter, other than Backlund.

[Phanuthier]

That isn't really fair. Feaster still had to make the picks count and he deserves full credit. A draft record is a draft record, regardless of how the draft picks were acquired. That is a separate discussion.
I'm not taking anything away from Feaster. I was just pointing out that you can't say Darryl only made 2 good picks (Brodie and Backlund) because we should factor in the return for Erixon as well, so Erixon was a good pick.

[wingmaker]

I'm not taking anything away from Feaster. I was just pointing out that you can't say Darryl only made 2 good picks (Brodie and Backlund) because we should factor in the return for Erixon as well, so Erixon was a good pick.

No he wasn't. We lucked out getting the return we did. Erixon is still not even playing in the league. If we are debating draft picks with hindsight fully intact, Erixon can't be considered a good pick.

[Vulcan]

That isn't really fair. Feaster still had to make the picks count and he deserves full credit. A draft record is a draft record, regardless of how the draft picks were acquired. That is a separate discussion.

Definitely the difference is that the Flames have made their top round picks count the last few years whereas they didn't under Sutter, other than Backlund.

Other than Monahan, it's too early to say.

[Phanuthier]

No he wasn't. We lucked out getting the return we did. Erixon is still not even playing in the league. If we are debating draft picks with hindsight fully intact, Erixon can't be considered a good pick.
He was one of the top rated prospects at the time of the trade and came off a fantastic WJC showing.

[Huntingwhale]

Anaheim is so lucky. They have some fantastic propects coming thru the pipeline, and have a high draft pick with the Sens pick this year. Good times to be a Ducks' fan.

[Phanuthier]

Other than Monahan, it's too early to say.
Exactly. I think some people are give credit way too early (as do all fans, on prospects). How is Erixon a bad draft pick at the age of 20, but Porier is a great draft pick right now?

[wingmaker]

He was one of the top rated prospects at the time of the trade and came off a fantastic WJC showing.

Yes. At the time, the pick made sense. But the way it works is that drafting records are based on what the players drafted accomplish, not what their ranking was going into the draft. I mean, people on this board rag on the Oilers all the time for their top picks. Erixon may have seemed like a good pick at the time, which is why we got the return we did, but Erixon has not panned out. And until he does, it still goes into the the "first round pick not playing in the NHL" column.

Being a GM is a brutal business. Context doesn't mean anything. It is all results. The only reason the Erixon pick is even arguably a good one is because another GM made the same incorrect analysis that Sutter did in drafting Erixon and overpayed to get him.

[ignite09]

Completely random, but Rafikov will be considered a top ten prospect by this time next year.

[OutOfTheCube]

A little OT here, but I really wonder how good Buffalo is going to be after their rebuild is over. Their prospect pool is ridiculous as it stands, and they're set to pick 10 times in the 1st and 2nd round of the 14/15 drafts. They'll probably get a stellar player out of the 2nd pick overall too.

Next year they won't have Miller, so Eichel and McDavid are real possibilities for them.

I'm thinking 3 or 4 cups and a challenger for a decade. ;)

I'd be happy with one. It's been a long time.

[trackercowe]

Completely random, but Rafikov will be considered a top ten prospect by this time next year.
You mean for us, right? Saying he will be a top ten prospect leaguewide is utter insanity.

[theoforever]

I'm thinking 3 or 4 cups and a challenger for a decade. ;)

I'd be happy with one. It's been a long time.

Are you sure because Edmonton is building something special.

[Phanuthier]

Yes. At the time, the pick made sense. But the way it works is that drafting records are based on what the players drafted accomplish, not what their ranking was going into the draft. I mean, people on this board rag on the Oilers all the time for their top picks. Erixon may have seemed like a good pick at the time, which is why we got the return we did, but Erixon has not panned out. And until he does, it still goes into the the "first round pick not playing in the NHL" column..
no, that is simply too simplistic. there are too many factors you did not include, such as organizational development.

This goes into the "what did we get in return for the 2009 1st round draft pick" and the answer is, 2 2nd round picks in 2011 and Horak.

[Table 5]

Other than Monahan, it's too early to say.

While that is the case, I don't remember ever being as excited about a prospect base in the 20+ years I've followed the team. There was always a lot of wishful thinking and post-rationalization with guys like Chucko, Nemisz, Nystrom, Pelech, Krahn, Saprykin, etc, but apart from Dion (and Morris way back when), you never really felt like we had many (or any) true blue-chip guys.

[Vulcan]

Are you sure because Edmonton is building something special.

Buffalo is building something even more special.

[ignite09]

I'm thinking 3 or 4 cups and a challenger for a decade. ;)

I'd be happy with one. It's been a long time.

You guys will certainly be a case study in the drafting vs developement argument. The whole "suck ass until you're awesome" approach to building a stanley cup champion hasn't proven to be as idiot proof as some might hope.However, hopefully for the sake of the Sabres, you guys have a liitle more luck then our friends too the North.

[ignite09]

You mean for us, right? Saying he will be a top ten prospect leaguewide is utter insanity.

Well yes, thought that would be obvious.:)

[wingmaker]

no, that is simply too simplistic. there are too many factors you did not include, such as organizational development.

This goes into the "what did we get in return for the 2009 1st round draft pick" and the answer is, 2 2nd round picks in 2011 and Horak.

Agree to disagree then. But when I see people analyze various GMs drafting records, they rarely are given the benefit of context for picks that don't pan out. If we are going to do that for Sutter, the same consideration should be given to other GMs when looking at their drafting records.

[Erick Estrada]

The one reason why Jay Feaster may get a job again in this league. Fault him all you want for his trades (and almost trades), but the guy and his team of scouts did a fantastic job in turning our prospect base into one that shows probably the most promise since the 1980s.

You mean Darryl's team of scouts? Todd Button is still running the show today. I get that the emphasis changed and rightly so but Darryl does deserve some credit for assembling that scouting staff and his only mistakes were probably trading too many 2nd round picks and making picks overly based on physical metrics over outright skill. Feaster does deserve props though for focusing more on skill over measurables and some astute looking picks were made during his tenure. I still don't believe he will find work any time soon as an NHL GM but he deserves some credit for stockpiling solid talent and supplementing the rebuild.

It's great to be recognized as having solid prospects but this is only half the battle as these players need to make the transformation into quality NHL players for any of this to be meaningful.

[Table 5]

You mean Darryl's team of scouts? Todd Button is still running the show today.

In that case you should credit Al Coates who first hired him, and Craig Button, who promoted him to head scout. Darryl just kept him there.

I think it just goes to show how important leadership is. A boss might do nothing but direct his underlings, but those directions can make a big difference in whether there is success or not. Feaster had his issues, but on the scouting/prospect side of things, whatever he was doing looks like it was working.

[wingmaker]

I really like Sutter. There is much that he deserves credit for. But people trying to defend his drafting is ridiculous. The fact that the team started drafting much better as soon as he left does not somehow reflect well on him. He may have helped get the organization going in the right direction. He may have hired some good people. But his inability to draft well is not improved because the team drafted significantly better after he left. That is ridiculous.

[The Fonz]

Completely random, but Rafikov will be considered a top ten prospect by this time next year.

Wanna bet?

[wingmaker]

no, that is simply too simplistic. there are too many factors you did not include, such as organizational development.

This goes into the "what did we get in return for the 2009 1st round draft pick" and the answer is, 2 2nd round picks in 2011 and Horak.

For example, you don't have Brossoit bolded in your list of good picks. But to be fair you have to consider Brossoit a good pick, as well, because it was the centre piece of the trade to get Smid.

[Vulcan]

I really like Sutter. There is much that he deserves credit for. But people trying to defend his drafting is ridiculous. The fact that the team started drafting much better as soon as he left does not somehow reflect well on him. He may have helped get the organization going in the right direction. He may have hired some good people. But his inability to draft well is not improved because the team drafted significantly better after he left. That is ridiculous.

The drafting improved before Feaster came along.

[ignite09]

Wanna bet?

An Avatar bet if you care enough is fine for me. More just a fan of this kid, then out to prove anyone a fool.

[wingmaker]

The drafting improved before Feaster came along.

Not considerably. If Ortio pans out, you have Backlund, Ortio, and Brodie from four drafts being impact players. That isn't terrible, but it isn't anything close to a good drafting record. Max Reinhart, Bill Arnold...unless they have serious upswings in their career trajectories, they are nothing more than bit parts.

I am not saying that Sutter was horrible at drafting. He did find a couple of decent players. But his record is hardly anything to get excited about.

[Phanuthier]

In that case you should credit Al Coates who first hired him, and Craig Button, who promoted him to head scout. Darryl just kept him there.

I think it just goes to show how important leadership is. A boss might do nothing but direct his underlings, but those directions can make a big difference in whether there is success or not. Feaster had his issues, but on the scouting/prospect side of things, whatever he was doing looks like it was working.
why didn't this mastery work in Tampa then?

I'm of the belief its not all in the scouting. Most of it came in the development.

[Phanuthier]

For example, you don't have Brossoit bolded in your list of good picks. But to be fair you have to consider Brossoit a good pick, as well, because it was the centre piece of the trade to get Smid.
i can if it'll make you happy

i provided the whole list for anyone that wanted to see. i just bolded names that stood out.

[The Fonz]

An Avatar bet if you care enough is fine for me. More just a fan of this kid, then out to prove anyone a fool.

My bad, thought you were making a guarantee.

But since you've got me thinking about it... this is something like how I think our rankings will look this time next year (assuming Reinhart/Granlund/Baertschi/Wotherspoon graduate from 'prospect' status. Monahan already has):

1. (4th overall pick of 2014)
2. Gaudreau (I think he'll only see 15-30 NHL games next year)
3. Ortio
4. Gillies
5. Poirier
6. Jankowski
7. Klimchuk
8. Ferland
9. Sieloff
10. (34th overall pick from 2014)

11. Arnold
12. Agostino
13. (54th overall pick from 2014)
14. Kanzig
15. (64th overall pick from 2014)
16. Kulak
17. Roy
18. Culkin
19. Rafikov
20. (84th overall from 2014)

I'm sure there'll be a lot of disagreement with the above from CP. I'm not too familiar with the guys I've ranked 14th thru 19th.

[ignite09]

My bad, thought you were making a guarantee.

But since you've got me thinking about it... this is something like how I think our rankings will look this time next year (assuming Reinhart/Granlund/Baertschi/Wotherspoon graduate from 'prospect' status. Monahan already has):

1. (4th overall pick of 2014)
2. Gaudreau (I think he'll only see 15-30 NHL games next year)
3. Ortio
4. Gillies
5. Poirier
6. Jankowski
7. Klimchuk
8. Ferland
9. Sieloff
10. (34th overall pick from 2014)

11. Arnold
12. Agostino
13. (54th overall pick from 2014)
14. Kanzig
15. (64th overall pick from 2014)
16. Kulak
17. Roy
18. Culkin
19. Rafikov
20. (84th overall from 2014)

I'm sure there'll be a lot of disagreement with the above from CP. I'm not too familiar with the guys I've ranked 14th thru 19th.

No worries, I just remember hearing that Rafikov wanted to head over too the CHL this year, and I expect his stock to rise high if that's the case.

[Phanuthier]

I am not saying that Sutter was horrible at drafting. He did find a couple of decent players. But his record is hardly anything to get excited about.
Oh I'll say its horrible, but I think 99% of drafting has to do with the scouts and 1% has to do with the GM. I think fans know so little about drafting that we really have no idea who to point a finger at, so the GM is a target. Look at Feaster's Tampa team, what is it 4 NHL drafts and the only NHL players he got was Paul Ranger and Blair Jones?

As far as 1st round picks go, Darryl's were : Chucko, Pelech, Irving, Backlund, Erixon. Chucko blew chunks, ok I agree - no idea WTF he was thinking there. Pelech, I think it was a bad draft year, so whatever - this is the equivalent to probably a Jankowski pick, drafting a young guy that flies under the radar for a particular circumstance. Irving, well, never drafting a ####ing goalie. Backlund and Erixon were good picks IMO. Remember all of these were draft picks in the 20's.

Lets compare to Detriot in that time period: Jakub Kindl, Cory Emmerton (41th earliest), Brendan Smith, Tom McCollum, Landon Ferraro, Riley Sheahan

Pittsburg, same period after Jordan Staal? Angelo Esposito, Nathan Moon, Simon Despres, Beau Bennett

So there you go

[wingmaker]

Oh I'll say its horrible, but I think 99% of drafting has to do with the scouts and 1% has to do with the GM. I think fans know so little about drafting that we really have no idea who to point a finger at, so the GM is a target. Look at Feaster's Tampa team, what is it 4 NHL drafts and the only NHL players he got was Paul Ranger and Blair Jones?

As far as 1st round picks go, Darryl's were : Chucko, Pelech, Irving, Backlund, Erixon. Chucko blew chunks, ok I agree - no idea WTF he was thinking there. Pelech, I think it was a bad draft year, so whatever - this is the equivalent to probably a Jankowski pick, drafting a young guy that flies under the radar for a particular circumstance. Irving, well, never drafting a ####ing goalie. Backlund and Erixon were good picks IMO. Remember all of these were draft picks in the 20's.

Lets compare to Detriot in that time period: Jakub Kindl, Cory Emmerton (41th earliest), Brendan Smith, Tom McCollum, Landon Ferraro, Riley Sheahan

Pittsburg, same period after Jordan Staal? Angelo Esposito, Nathan Moon, Simon Despres, Beau Bennett

So there you go

Ok. Not sure what your point is. Sounds like we mostly agree. Perhaps the true issue is that developing players has vastly improved post Sutter.

[Phanuthier]

Ok. Not sure what your point is. Sounds like we mostly agree. Perhaps the true issue is that developing players has vastly improved post Sutter.
just talking to myself. maybe i should go home, its friday.

[TheDebaser]

An Avatar bet if you care enough is fine for me. More just a fan of this kid, then out to prove anyone a fool.

What do you like about Rafikov ignite? Where have you seen him play?

[ignite09]

What do you like about Rafikov ignite? Where have you seen him play?

Honestly, nothing but highlights and prospect updates. However his progression sounds solid, and he plays a defensive game that Burke loves. Hard hitting, aggravating, with a scoring touch. I just think he suffers from the Russia factor, and if he's honest about coming over to the CHL next year, the exposure will move him up our prospect list significantly.

[bubbsy]

sure we've sucked the past 5 seasons, but look at the prospect pool comparison (as per hf) in 2008 vs 2014 (pre-draft):

Top 20 at a glance
1. Dustin Boyd (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/dustin_boyd), C (7.0 B)
2. Mikael Backlund (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/mikael_backlund), C (7.5 C)
3. Leland Irving (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/leland_irving), G (7.5 C)
4. Juuso Puustinen (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/juuso_puustinen), RW (7.0 C)
5. Andrei Taratukhin (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/andrei_taratukhin), C (7.0 D)
6. Curtis McElhinney (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/curtis_mcelhinney), G (6.5 C)
7. Mark Giordano (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/mark_giordano), D (6.5 C)
8. Eric Nystrom (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/eric_nystrom), LW (6.0 B)
9. Matt Keetley (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/matt_keetley), G (6.5 C)
10. John Negrin (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/john_negrin), D (6.5 C)
11. Tim Ramholt (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/tim_ramholt), D (6.0 C)
12. Adam Pardy (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/adam_pardy), D (6.0 C)
13. Kris Chucko (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/kris_chucko), LW (6.0 C)
14. Matt Pelech (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/matt_pelech), D (6.0 C)
15. Brandon Prust (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/brandon_prust), LW (5.5 B)
16. John Armstrong (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/john_armstrong), C (6.0 C)
17. Aaron Marvin (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/aaron_marvin), C (5.5 C)
18. David Van der Gulik (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/david_van_der_gulik), RW (5.5 C)
19. Devin Didiomete (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/devin_didiomete), LW (5.5 C)
20. Jordan Fulton (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/jordan_fulton), C (7 F)


http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/10300/flames_top20_prospects_spring2008/

[Hackey]

Kinda hard to judge at this point because we pretty much know where all these players careers will go and don't really have any idea of the top 20 right now. There is always optimism with prospects when they are still young but as we always see that can change. The development and added opportunity should lead to more success though. Back in 2008 prospects weren't given the chances they are right now. I think that plays a major role if a player feels they have a legit chance to make it. Something to work towards.

[sun]

sure we've sucked the past 5 seasons, but look at the prospect pool comparison (as per hf) in 2008 vs 2014 (pre-draft):

Top 20 at a glance
1. Dustin Boyd (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/dustin_boyd), C (7.0 B)
2. Mikael Backlund (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/mikael_backlund), C (7.5 C)
3. Leland Irving (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/leland_irving), G (7.5 C)
4. Juuso Puustinen (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/juuso_puustinen), RW (7.0 C)
5. Andrei Taratukhin (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/andrei_taratukhin), C (7.0 D)
6. Curtis McElhinney (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/curtis_mcelhinney), G (6.5 C)
7. Mark Giordano (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/mark_giordano), D (6.5 C)
8. Eric Nystrom (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/eric_nystrom), LW (6.0 B)
9. Matt Keetley (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/matt_keetley), G (6.5 C)
10. John Negrin (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/john_negrin), D (6.5 C)
11. Tim Ramholt (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/tim_ramholt), D (6.0 C)
12. Adam Pardy (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/adam_pardy), D (6.0 C)
13. Kris Chucko (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/kris_chucko), LW (6.0 C)
14. Matt Pelech (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/matt_pelech), D (6.0 C)
15. Brandon Prust (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/brandon_prust), LW (5.5 B)
16. John Armstrong (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/john_armstrong), C (6.0 C)
17. Aaron Marvin (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/aaron_marvin), C (5.5 C)
18. David Van der Gulik (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/david_van_der_gulik), RW (5.5 C)
19. Devin Didiomete (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/devin_didiomete), LW (5.5 C)
20. Jordan Fulton (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/jordan_fulton), C (7 F)


http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/10300/flames_top20_prospects_spring2008/

Ugly list, but it makes you wonder what gems we currently have hidden at 7 and 15 for example.

[CliffFletcher]

You guys will certainly be a case study in the drafting vs developement argument. The whole "suck ass until you're awesome" approach to building a stanley cup champion hasn't proven to be as idiot proof as some might hope.However, hopefully for the sake of the Sabres, you guys have a liitle more luck then our friends too the North.

Rebuilding isn't about sucking; it's about stockpiling draft picks and prospects. Buffalo has done that. Edmonton hasn't. When did they load up on 1st and 2nd round picks?

[TheDebaser]

Rebuilding isn't about sucking; it's about stockpiling draft picks and prospects. Buffalo has done that. Edmonton hasn't. When did they load up on 1st and 2nd round picks?

2007 -> 3 1sts (Gagner, Nash, Plante)

2010 -> 1 1st, 3 2nds (Hall, Pitlick, Marincin, Hamilton)

2011-> 2 1sts, 1 2nd (RNH, Klefbom, Musil)

Rebuilding isn't just about getting picks, it's about building a team. Burke took the opposite strategy in Toronto, and by the time he left the pieces were really beginning to fit together over there.

I'm hoping Treliving and Burke can kind of Ying/Yang a good drafting and development organization bolstered by intelligent hockey trades.

[d_phaneuf]

2007 -> 3 1sts (Gagner, Nash, Plante)

2010 -> 1 1st, 3 2nds (Hall, Pitlick, Marincin, Hamilton)

2011-> 2 1sts, 1 2nd (RNH, Klefbom, Musil)

Rebuilding isn't just about getting picks, it's about building a team. Burke took the opposite strategy in Toronto, and by the time he left the pieces were really beginning to fit together over there.

I'm hoping Treliving and Burke can kind of Ying/Yang a good drafting and development organization bolstered by intelligent hockey trades.

this season has kind of shown that they weren't though

[Hackey]

2007 -> 3 1sts (Gagner, Nash, Plante)

2010 -> 1 1st, 3 2nds (Hall, Pitlick, Marincin, Hamilton)

2011-> 2 1sts, 1 2nd (RNH, Klefbom, Musil)

Rebuilding isn't just about getting picks, it's about building a team. Burke took the opposite strategy in Toronto, and by the time he left the pieces were really beginning to fit together over there.

I'm hoping Treliving and Burke can kind of Ying/Yang a good drafting and development organization bolstered by intelligent hockey trades.

I think all this shows is that your scouting and development are hugely important. You need to capitalize on your opportunities. Having more picks is always better than having less. Luck obviously plays a big part of it as well. Some drafts are just deeper with better players. RNH and Yakupov were pretty bad first overall picks. Those drafts wern't that great. Imagine the difference if your getting Mackinnon and McDavid. Hitting on your firsts is very important and then being able to hit on a few later ones to add depth and trading assets is a close second in importance. If you fail at either your team likely struggles to get over the hump to become a contender. Trades and signings can only do so much and are the least efficient way to get better.

[TheDebaser]

this season has kind of shown that they weren't though

That kind of process is really hands on and Burke got fired at right about the most crucial time. Could he have made different decisions that would have prevented the implosion? I don't know the answer to that, but on a longer timescale, it's clear that the leafs are at least headed in the right direction.

[Hackey]

I don't think you can blame Burke for the Leafs crapping the bed at the end of the season a year after he was let go. That blame has to go to the players who didn't perform or the coach. Maybe even the new GM. He still got them some very key pieces like Kessel, JVR, Lupul, Kadri, Gardiner, Phaneuf, Franson, Rielly who are all quality players most teams would like to have.

[ricardodw]

On the rankings #3 Detroit has Anthony Mantha --- 2 picks ahead of Poirier as their # prospect.


in the Flame system Poirier not even in the Flames top 5 ( well he might be but beaten out by Jankowski) but somehow Detroit is ranked higher.

A logic failure it would seem.

[Phanuthier]

sure we've sucked the past 5 seasons, but look at the prospect pool comparison (as per hf) in 2008 vs 2014 (pre-draft):

Top 20 at a glance
1. Dustin Boyd (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/dustin_boyd), C (7.0 B)
2. Mikael Backlund (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/mikael_backlund), C (7.5 C)
3. Leland Irving (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/leland_irving), G (7.5 C)
4. Juuso Puustinen (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/juuso_puustinen), RW (7.0 C)
5. Andrei Taratukhin (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/andrei_taratukhin), C (7.0 D)
6. Curtis McElhinney (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/curtis_mcelhinney), G (6.5 C)
7. Mark Giordano (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/mark_giordano), D (6.5 C)
8. Eric Nystrom (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/eric_nystrom), LW (6.0 B)
9. Matt Keetley (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/matt_keetley), G (6.5 C)
10. John Negrin (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/john_negrin), D (6.5 C)
11. Tim Ramholt (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/tim_ramholt), D (6.0 C)
12. Adam Pardy (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/adam_pardy), D (6.0 C)
13. Kris Chucko (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/kris_chucko), LW (6.0 C)
14. Matt Pelech (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/matt_pelech), D (6.0 C)
15. Brandon Prust (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/brandon_prust), LW (5.5 B)
16. John Armstrong (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/john_armstrong), C (6.0 C)
17. Aaron Marvin (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/aaron_marvin), C (5.5 C)
18. David Van der Gulik (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/david_van_der_gulik), RW (5.5 C)
19. Devin Didiomete (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/devin_didiomete), LW (5.5 C)
20. Jordan Fulton (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/jordan_fulton), C (7 F)


http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/10300/flames_top20_prospects_spring2008/

are you trying to prove how useless it is to try and project prospects?

[d_phaneuf]

That kind of process is really hands on and Burke got fired at right about the most crucial time. Could he have made different decisions that would have prevented the implosion? I don't know the answer to that, but on a longer timescale, it's clear that the leafs are at least headed in the right direction.

a lot of people would disagree with that

they were one of the most outshot teams in the league the last two seasons, and a lot of people were predicting the 2nd half slump that eventually came

now would Burke have made the exact moves Nonis did who knows, but the team he had built as it stands was well on it's way to being a 7-10 seed essentially year in and year out, exactly where you dont want to be

[Enoch Root]

Rebuilding isn't about sucking; it's about stockpiling draft picks and prospects. Buffalo has done that. Edmonton hasn't. When did they load up on 1st and 2nd round picks?

No, rebuilding is about re-building your team.

Acquiring a lot of draft picks is certainly part of that, but not the only thing. Buffalo has been foregoing other aspects of their organization in a rather single-minded attempt to gain picks.

We shall see whether that proves to be a successful strategy or not.

[Vulcan]

On the rankings #3 Detroit has Anthony Mantha --- 2 picks ahead of Poirier as their # prospect.


in the Flame system Poirier not even in the Flames top 5 ( well he might be but beaten out by Jankowski) but somehow Detroit is ranked higher.

A logic failure it would seem.

Mantha had a great season but I wouldn't worry about it too much, HF's grading is mostly useless.

[mile]

No, rebuilding is about re-building your team.

Acquiring a lot of draft picks is certainly part of that, but not the only thing. Buffalo has been foregoing other aspects of their organization in a rather single-minded attempt to gain picks.

We shall see whether that proves to be a successful strategy or not.

Just curious, what are the Sabres foregoing to get picks? They are stockpiling picks, but is it really coming at the expense of anything else?

If it's development/culture you are referring to, they hired Ted Nolan early this season with the intention of improving their team. While their regular season was poor, I haven't heard of anything troubling regarding players habits/losing culture. Hodgson, Ennis, and Girgensons are solid young forwards - and from what I've read Myers is slowly gaining his confidence back under Nolan (and got invited to the World Championships). I think given a full training camp and season to establish himself, I think they will take steps forward just as Calgary has done this season.

As far as drafting is concerned, their defense core is stacked, and they will likely get the top forwards they need this year and next year as well. They've done everything Edmonton hasn't as far as draft picks go.

As a Flames fan, I'm looking at Buffalo as a huge threat as a rebuilding team.

[dying4acup]

Just curious, what are the Sabres foregoing to get picks? They are stockpiling picks, but is it really coming at the expense of anything else?

If it's development/culture you are referring to, they hired Ted Nolan early this season with the intention of improving their team. While their regular season was poor, I haven't heard of anything troubling regarding players habits/losing culture. Hodgson, Ennis, and Girgensons are solid young forwards - and from what I've read Myers is slowly gaining his confidence back under Nolan (and got invited to the World Championships). I think given a full training camp and season to establish himself, I think they will take steps forward just as Calgary has done this season.

As far as drafting is concerned, their defense core is stacked, and they will likely get the top forwards they need this year and next year as well. They've done everything Edmonton hasn't as far as draft picks go.

As a Flames fan, I'm looking at Buffalo as a huge threat as a rebuilding team.

The risk is for the sabres, these quality players on the NHL roster will be such losers, that when it comes time to win, they won't know how to. With no vets to show them that they need to throw a body in front of a puck, or bust ass on a back check, they will only learn to score, and assume that when better defenseman arrive, everything will be ok. Maybe Nolan is a good enough coach to overcome this, because he was there while guys like miller were there to pound the point home, but the oilers nurchered their young scorers, and they have no idea what to do right now. Nobody showed them at the start. More recently, it looks like they don't want to hear it.

What I like most about the flames year 1 rebuild is that they enjoyed some moderate success. Most of it by playing the coach's style. The biggest reason why it worked (IMO) is that leaders and veterans like Giordano and Cammy and Backlund and Wideman and Brodie and McGrattan Stajan drove it home.

You can hear it from the coach all you want, but if the vets don't care, it ain't gonna happen.

Ask Pat Quinn and Tom Renney. Dallas Eakins might be a genious, but do the kids care?

[BlackWallStreet]

If I ever see feaster around town I'm gonna buy him a booster juice

[Monahan23]

Great HF article here

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/108037/bright-future-apparent-after-strong-2013-14-season-for-calgary-flames-prospects/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=bright-future-apparent-after-strong-2013-14-season-for-calgary-flames-prospects

[dying4acup]

If I ever see feaster around town I'm gonna buy him a booster juice

Or an Orange Julius?

[indes]

Click on the "Quote! graphic - just like before!

Please send one out to castlegar for me, god I hate being hungover without a booster juice to heal me.

[SebC]

On the rankings #3 Detroit has Anthony Mantha --- 2 picks ahead of Poirier as their # prospect.


in the Flame system Poirier not even in the Flames top 5 ( well he might be but beaten out by Jankowski) but somehow Detroit is ranked higher.

A logic failure it would seem.Mantha is at least a tier above Poirier as a prospect, despite their proximity in draft position. I wouldn't rate him higher than Gaudreau if he were a Flame, but he might be next.

[TheDebaser]

Yeah, Mantha's making tons of GM's look like idiots right now. Everyone who picked after Dallas is kicking themselves.

[Textcritic]

Yeah, Mantha's making tons of GM's look like idiots right now. Everyone who picked after Dallas is kicking themselves.
Except they are probably not. I'm pretty sure the only NHL GM who spends any significant time worrying about who he didn't draft, and about who was drafted by other teams works in Edmonton, and they are no good.

[SebC]

Except they are probably not. I'm pretty sure the only NHL GM who spends any significant time worrying about who he didn't draft, and about who was drafted by other teams works in Edmonton, and they are no good.Any GM who is not evaluating his organisation's drafting isn't really doing his job.

[Textcritic]

Any GM who is not evaluating his organisation's drafting isn't really doing his job.
That's a whole different kettle of fish from pining about how well other teams' prospects are performing, especially only one year removed from their draft year.

[bubbsy]

are you trying to prove how useless it is to try and project prospects?

your statement is correct, but not what i was trying to highlight whatsoever. Despite it being damn near impossible to predict/extrapolate a prospects development and transition to the NHL game, there is something to be said about the level of quality in the prospect pool 5 years ago versus today. Yes, we all can get a bit overly optimistic about our team's prospects, but think the flames have positioned themselves much better over the past few years of drafting.

[Fire]

Yeah, Mantha's making tons of GM's look like idiots right now. Everyone who picked after Dallas is kicking themselves.

As far as we know he could be the next Brendl. Let's see him perform in the NHL before we call GMs idiots.

[Oil Stain]

As far as we know he could be the next Brendl. Let's see him perform in the NHL before we call GMs idiots.

Mantha's career so far kind of resembles Wolski. Both put up huge junior numbers in their last year of junior. Both big with question marks around compete level.

Mantha's case is a little different in that he is eligible to go pro next season but it lines up pretty well otherwise.

Mantha will probably turn out better though just because its Detroit.

[Street Pharmacist]

Mantha's career so far kind of resembles Wolski. Both put up huge junior numbers in their last year of junior. Both big with question marks around compete level.

Mantha's case is a little different in that he is eligible to go pro next season but it lines up pretty well otherwise.

Mantha will probably turn out better though just because its Detroit.

Disagree. Mantha is a year younger than wolski was, relied much more on physicality and dirty goals than wolski's passing for assists. That bodes much more fairly for Mantha at the NHL level. Also, Mantha kept it up in the playoffs whereas wolski couldn't

[Split98]

Well keep in mind the pick of Erixon turned into Granlund and Wotherspoon

Without that, Fester's drafting is Monohan, Porier, Gaudreau..... and whatever Jankowski and Sieloff become. To me, picking Monohan doesn't really make him a draft guru but I'm willing to give him that since its really not worth arguing. Porier and Gaudreau were the great picks, I do agree. Not sure Darryl would have been ok drafting Gaudreau.

Without Feaster, Erixon is a draft pick that signs with the NYR for nothing. Give him credit for obtaining the picks AND drafting well with them.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot that I was on page TWO when I quoted that

[TheDebaser]

As far as we know he could be the next Brendl. Let's see him perform in the NHL before we call GMs idiots.

Mantha is going to be one hell of an nhl player. Count on it. Nichushkin is the last player drafted that rivals him. From 10-18 every GM would trade their pick for Mantha and they would do it with a smile.

He had 57 goals and 63 assists for 120 points in 57 games.

In the playoffs he played 24 games, had 24 goals and thirteen assists. He carried his team to win the QMJHL championship.

In comparison Claude Giroux had 112 points in 07 and 106 points in 08. I'm not saying Mantha will be better than Claude Giroux, but I would bet a lot of money that he will be one heck of a player for Detroit for a long time.

If I worked for Detroit I sure as hell wouldn't trade him for Bo Horvat.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Mantha is at least a tier above Poirier as a prospect, .

Pretty dubious claim.

If Mantha used even half his size on a consistent basis he'd be all world. At times when I've watched him he still leaves you wanting more. He's looked just okay in the Memorial Cup so far.

Still, really like him as a prospect. Detroit will bring him along slowly as there is no rush.

[neo45]

Mantha has insane skill, like better than Drouin, but he is soft for his size and doesn't play defence that well. He will need to be developed in Grand Rapids for sure but they seem to know what their doing at this point in time

Still take Monahan over him 10/10

[Rutuu]

Mantha is going to be one hell of an nhl player. Count on it. Nichushkin is the last player drafted that rivals him. From 10-18 every GM would trade their pick for Mantha and they would do it with a smile.

He had 57 goals and 63 assists for 120 points in 57 games.

In the playoffs he played 24 games, had 24 goals and thirteen assists. He carried his team to win the QMJHL championship.

In comparison Claude Giroux had 112 points in 07 and 106 points in 08. I'm not saying Mantha will be better than Claude Giroux, but I would bet a lot of money that he will be one heck of a player for Detroit for a long time.

If I worked for Detroit I sure as hell wouldn't trade him for Bo Horvat.

I'm sure teams kick themselves EVERY DAY when they look back and realize they didn't draft Robbie Schremp.

Schremp: 4th year of junior: GP57; G57; A88; PTS145
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=71793

Mantha: 4th year of junior: GP57; G57; A63; PTS120
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=136790

[Scornfire]

Wasn't shremp 19 or 20 when he scored 145?, pretty sure that was his second season after being drafted

[SebC]

If Mantha used even half his size on a consistent basis he'd be all world.The way I see it, unused potential only increases his value as a prospect.

Also, for an apples-to-apples comparison, we need to stop comparing Mantha's draft+1 (?) season to other players' draft+2 (?) years. (Not quite sure what the correct nomenclature is.)

[MrMastodonFarm]

The way I see it, unused potential only increases his value as a prospect.

Unused potential is an interesting spin on not showing up on a nightly basis, truly.

I see what you're saying, to a point. Having a player whose managed to attain a high point level while being lazy at times could mean if he becomes consistent he'll put up higher totals. Don't know if that brings up his "value" though.

Gaudreau has put up a high point title while competing every night, his value wouldn't be higher if he was deemed a lazy player.

edit - Just to clarify I am not trying to slag Mantha, I really am not an expert on him at all and haven't had a large number of viewings of him. If SebC has seen him a lot and thinks he's on another level then Poirier, good enough.

[Rutuu]

The way I see it, unused potential only increases his value as a prospect.

Also, for an apples-to-apples comparison, we need to stop comparing Mantha's draft+1 (?) season to other players' draft+2 (?) years. (Not quite sure what the correct nomenclature is.)

Why?

Development isn't linear...would it matter if he started when he was 8yrs old and another draft choice started when he was 3yrs old? The kid that started younger would have 5yrs extra hockey "experience".

What if he was born one day after the cut off and the other guy was born one day before the cut off?

Mantha is 6'5" and 200+lbs...playing in Jr with a decent amount of skill...he's just like any other 100pt+ player coming out of Jr.

Until he shows what he can do against other men...meh...

[neo45]

Ok, take it easy here. Mantha is an offensive phenom. Anyone who watched world juniors saw that he was even more skilled than Drouin. Detroit isn't going to bust someone with that much raw skill. Even their mediocre first round picks all made the NHL

[SebC]

If SebC has seen him a lot and thinks he's on another level then Poirier, good enough.I haven't, just going on statistical projections and limited viewings.

I don't think I need to always have a disclaimer to everything I say on a message bord, but it's IMHO. I'm not a Sith Lord, so it should usually be implied that if I say something, it's my opinion, not intended as an absolute.

[MrMastodonFarm]

I haven't, just going on statistical projections and limited viewings..
NHL-e?


I don't think I need to always have a disclaimer to everything I say on a message bord, but it's IMHO. I'm not a Sith Lord, so it should usually be implied that if I say something, it's my opinion, not intended as an absolute
I know.

[SebC]

NHL-e?Yup.

[PeteMoss]

Without Feaster, Erixon is a draft pick that signs with the NYR for nothing. Give him credit for obtaining the picks AND drafting well with them.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot that I was on page TWO when I quoted that


What? Every gm in the world would trade a guy who isn't going to sign.

[PeteMoss]

Ok, take it easy here. Mantha is an offensive phenom. Anyone who watched world juniors saw that he was even more skilled than Drouin. Detroit isn't going to bust someone with that much raw skill. Even their mediocre first round picks all made the NHL


He's good...but Drouin is much more talented. Mantha is more of a Rich Nash type player... Drouin has elite talent.

[blankall]

On the rankings #3 Detroit has Anthony Mantha --- 2 picks ahead of Poirier as their # prospect.


in the Flame system Poirier not even in the Flames top 5 ( well he might be but beaten out by Jankowski) but somehow Detroit is ranked higher.

A logic failure it would seem.

Detroit will always rank higher in a prospect ranking than they actually are. They are notorious for keeping their prospects down a long time. Hard to knock, but I think they might realize they no longer have that luxury once Zetterberg and Datsyuk are no longer in their primes.