Ban judged events from Olympics?

[troutman]

SI article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writ...blog/index.html (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/josh_elliott/08/25/blog/index.html)

I say no, but there must be stricter controls and appeals available. Every sport involves a certain amount of judging. Ex. hockey - was it offside, was that a penalty? Track and Field - was that a false start? How do you draw the line? Maybe anything involving "artistic" merit has to go. That is too subjective.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

I think that any sport where a numeric value is awarded by a panel of judges that decides who wins a competition is not a worthy of Olympic status. I'd rather have Olympic darts than have to put up with any more gymnastics or figure skating controversies. All judged sports are a joke and they are only getting worse. Have them as nothing but non-medal demonstration sports and be done with it. Competition is decided by the competitors, head to head. Not by some judge who can be easily influenced by politics. If you're looking for sports where judging is okay, look at ski jumping (where the judges scores have very little impact on the result) or diving (where you need to be a math savant to know what score would be needed to win the competition based on degree of difficulties.

BTW... anyone find the syncronized diving to be completely over the top and the first sport that should be canned from the summer games???

[JiriHrdina]

I said it in another thread but I have no interest in any sport that is judged. When I watch a sport I should be able to tell who the winner is when they are done - if I have to wait for some judge to make that decision based on subjective criteria. I'm not interestd.

Do away with them all - figure skating, diving, anything synchro. Too many politics. Ruins the games.

[lucid]

Disagree. Just because the outcome of a competition is not determined by a stop-clock or black&white "goal's in vs. goal's out" by no means implies that they are lesser sports, or are a joke. Reducing them to demonstration sports would be awful, and an absolute smack in the face. No better way to say that you don't value the athletes or consider the sport they compete in as a real sport. Try telling a swimmer or a football player that the activity they love and have chosen to dedicate their life to isn't good enough. But they can go right ahead and have a career in "demonstration sport", or cheesy cross-country galas and tours. These athletes have competitive drive, they have goals and dreams too. No need to take away their chance of fulfilling these goals just because you can't judge them with a ruler.

Diving isn't exactly plagued by the same kind of judging inconsistencies as gym & figure skating.

As a huge supporter of figure skating, it's difficult to see the sport go through the kinds of trouble that it is. But, optimist that I am(or perhaps... naive?), I think systems can be worked out to eliminate some of these problems. And as a fan of the sport, I'd like more than anything to focus on the skating, rather than on the backroom deals, etc. that go on. The new Code of Points system is going in the right direction. I'm in no way a hard-core proponent of it; there are still flaws in the system, and areas that can be improved. It is however, an attempt to eliminate politics and scandals from entering into the rink... going for a more mathematical approach to scoring like diving has.

A lot of the change needs to come with judges and the enforcement of rules. Complete impartiality will never exist- but the athletes and fans both understand this. If you can accept that a world champ in one person's mind isn't necessarily the world champ according to someone else, if you can remember that nothing is cut&dry or black&white, you're starting to understand the sport. It's the nature of the sport... so I guess you could argue we've brought it upon ourselves.
In juding these kinds of sports, enforcing procedures, deductions, etc. is key. Take the Kyle Shewfelt incident on the vault. If it is specified in the rules that a fall or hands-down requires a deduction of so many tenths of points, these points must be deducted. It shouldn't be an issue of should or could. In situations like these, judges should be left with little to no option but to deduct the points. If the rules were enforced, we'd see a lot more accurate calls and responsible judging around sport--whatever that sport might be ( even hockey, ie: consistency when calling penalties).

I find that timed and judged sport are both great. Both sports in their own right; Both different. Too many politics & too many games, you say? There's never a dull moment on a figure skating message board... even in the off-season.You can't debate the winner of a timed sport. Either he/she came in first, or they didn't. There's no in-between. But you can argue 'til your thread's ten times longer than "TPBM" in the off-topic forum about who you think should have won a pair's long program. :P

Quick comment about ruining the Games: Skating and gym ruin them? That's your opinion, and you can argue that. I find the Games are being ruined by cheaters in sports that are scored or timed. How many sprinters, shot-putters, weightlifters have been banned or are serving drug suspensions? The image of sport is being tarnished form all sides, IMO.

[Patek23]

IMO sports that need to be dropped are all new additions. Diving, Gymnastics, Ping Pong, Tennis , Soccer etc. keep it like the original. The only new addition (when the olympics started again in the 1800's) is the swimming and the rowing events ( not to be mistaken with the kayaking events). And if it wasn't for my love of hockey I'd say ditch the entire Winter Olympics. Most of this new crap Gymnastics and all that is so that it's easier for power house Countries to accumulate higher total medals. How is being a Gymnast entitle you to compete as an Athlete?

[calf]

Originally posted by Flaming Homer@Aug 25 2004, 11:10 PM
How is being a Gymnast entitle you to compete as an Athlete?
Have you seen any of the stuff they do? I know I can't do it, and I bet very very few people on this board can even attempt it. They have incredible strength and agility. There is no doubt in my mind that gymnasts are incredible athletes.

[Patek23]

Originally posted by calf+Aug 26 2004, 05:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (calf @ Aug 26 2004, 05:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flaming Homer@Aug 25 2004, 11:10 PM
How is being a Gymnast entitle you to compete as an Athlete?
Have you seen any of the stuff they do? I know I can't do it, and I bet very very few people on this board can even attempt it. They have incredible strength and agility. There is no doubt in my mind that gymnasts are incredible athletes. [/b][/quote]
I'm not saying that their not in good physical condition and aren't competetors. I just don't think Artistic Gymnastics is an Olympic Sport. Keep to the tracks with the sprints, High Jump, Hurdles, Shockput, Archery and all that. I hate new age competitions being thrown into a thousand year old competition.

[calf]

I can see that Flaming Homer, 100%, don't blame ya one bit.

My personal feeling about judged sports etc is that word "sports". It gets thrown around a lot.

Baseball, soccer, track&field, hockey, are sports - they're a competition with defined, measurable scoring (goals, time, etc).

Gymnastics, diving, figure skating, etc - they're athletic competitions. THey get judged on their technique, and I have no problem with that (provided that judging is fair and the judges are competent). I think the athletes train hard, compete hard, and are deserving of being able to compete at the Olympic level.

My opinion