Almost 50 years since JFK assassination

[Flabbibulin]

As you can easily tell from all of the tv documentaries airing over the last couple weeks, the 50th anniversary of the JFK assassination is coming up next Friday. One new documentary titled "The Smoking Gun" seems to be getting a lot of attention, postulating that a secret service agent accidentally shot JFK with his AR15.

I have always found it disappointing that JFK's legacy is rooted in conspiracy theories and not in his successes or failures as a President. Regardless of your thoughts on the subject though, the documentary "JFK- three shots that changed America" is one of the best- it is essentially just a collection of footage from Nov. 22, 1963. It doesn't give any opinions or present any theories. Just raw footage showing the hours leading up to and following the assassination. Certainly one of the most historical days of the last 100 years.

yg0f_QHNSUw

[arsenal]

The book that that documentary is based on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_Error:_The_Shot_That_Killed_JFK

The guy that wrote the book Bonar Menninger based it off of research that Howard Donahue did. Donahue was a sharpshooter, gunsmith and ballistics expert. It's actually a really good documentary and seems like the most plausible explanation for what happened that day.

[Minnie]

I DVR'd a Nova special last night, on PBS, called 'Cold Case JFK' - description says "a reinvestigation using modern technology and contemporary scientific techniques. Included: ballistics experts reconstruct the shooting in a test of the 'single bullet theory.'" Will probably watch it tonight with my husband. It looks very interesting.

[Dion]

I DVR'd a Nova special last night, on PBS, called 'Cold Case JFK' - description says "a reinvestigation using modern technology and contemporary scientific techniques. Included: ballistics experts reconstruct the shooting in a test of the 'single bullet theory.'" Will probably watch it tonight with my husband. It looks very interesting.

Did they say if there was a shooter on the grassy knoll?

[Minnie]

Haven't watched it yet.

[Dion]

Haven't watched it yet.

Just re read your post where you said DVR :bag:

http://i.imgur.com/2nkfAzO.gif

[Temporary_User]

I've had Don Delillo's book Libra sitting on my shelf for years just have never gotten around to choosing it to read next. Anyone on here read it before?

[Żoso]

Aldous Huxley also died on November 22, 1963. When he was on his deathbed, he asked his wife for several doses of LSD.

Both men went out that day with their minds blown.

[undercoverbrother]

I have always blamed Kramer and Newman

[Acey]

One new documentary titled "The Smoking Gun" seems to be getting a lot of attention, postulating that a secret service agent accidentally shot JFK with his AR15.

Hadn't heard this theory and just had to go do some reading into it because my first thought was... to accidentally discharge a gun is one thing, but then to shoot twice more and blow his brains out. Yeah.

[JBR]

Hadn't heard this theory and just had to go do some reading into it because my first thought was... to accidentally discharge a gun is one thing, but then to shoot twice more and blow his brains out. Yeah.

This theory assumes that only the final headshot was fired by the secret service agent. Not all 3..

[Acey]

This theory assumes that only the final headshot was fired by the secret service agent. Not all 3..

Yes, that's why I went to do some reading...

I'll be tired of all the conspiracy theories by the end of next week, that's for sure. It'll be worse than the inevitable reboot of theories every year before 9/11.

[CedarMeter]

I don't think Oswald acted alone. In fact I don't think Oswald acted at all. Too many questions unanswered for me.

[Canada 02]

I have always blamed Kramer and Newman
It was Roger Mcdowell

[Flabbibulin]

I don't think Oswald acted alone. In fact I don't think Oswald acted at all. Too many questions unanswered for me.

There is a clear trail of Oswald purchasing the rifle via mail-order. There were several witnesses that saw him carry a long package into the buulding the morning of the 22nd. He was seen on the 6th floor of the depository minutes before the assassination- and left alone on that floor as other employees went to watch the motorcade. He was the only employee to flee the building after the shooting. A witness saw him shoot and kill a police officer within 1 hr of the assassination and then resist arrest in a movie theater minutes later. His palm print was found on the rifle that killed JFK.

This is only a small sample of facts that clearly point to his involvement. What is it that makes you question otherwise?

Its a shame that Oswald was a coward and didn't just admit his guilt during his media scrums following the assassination.

[CedarMeter]

There is a clear trail of Oswald purchasing the rifle via mail-order. There were several witnesses that saw him carry a long package into the buulding the morning of the 22nd. He was seen on the 6th floor of the depository minutes before the assassination- and left alone on that floor as other employees went to watch the motorcade. He was the only employee to flee the building after the shooting. A witness saw him shoot and kill a police officer within 1 hr of the assassination and then resist arrest in a movie theater minutes later. His palm print was found on the rifle that killed JFK.

This is only a small sample of facts that clearly point to his involvement. What is it that makes you question otherwise?

Its a shame that Oswald was a coward and didn't just admit his guilt during

his media scrums following the assassination.
A witness confirmed that the package he was carrying was nothing more than curtain rods. Oswalds finger prints were not found on the rifle at first. Witnesses confirm that FBI agents came later (when he was already dead) and planted Oswalds palm and finger prints on the rifle. Another witness to the Tippett murder said the shooter looked nothing like Oswald. It all seems like bull#### to me. He was nothing more than a patsey.

[Vulcan]

I never questioned that Oswald pulled the trigger. He probably was the lone shooter but maybe not. What has always left me unsatisfied is what was the motive and who if anyone was behind Oswald? The inquiry left everybody with too many questions and than they sealed the files. Why did they do this? What if anything are they hiding? I've been waiting since I heard the news.

[Wormius]

Did they say if there was a shooter on the grassy knoll?

They did tests of the area and concluded that it was impossible for a shooter to have hit JFK from there; as well the acoustics from the surrounding buildings is what caused witnesses to have thought they heard gunshots from the grassy knoll.

[T@T]

This theory assumes that only the final headshot was fired by the secret service agent. Not all 3..
It's a very pausable theory as the headshot wound couldn't have been shot from above or from the grassy knoll. Watch the video,the way the right side of his head explodes could only mean the final shot came from behind and slightly to the left. it's simple physics!

Why this fact was covered up should be the big question.

[handgroen]

Just listened to Dan Carlin openly postulate that a coverup by the american government may have been in an effort to avert global conflict. Draws comparisons to the assassination of the arch duke ferdinand that lead to ww1. If the soviets had anything to do with the murder, or if backlash to a communist tied oswald or oswald and conspirators would have caused an appetite for open war, i could buy the idea of a "just coverup"

just theoretical i know, but kind of opened my eyes to the idea that there may have been things more valuable than the truth at stake.

[GoJetsGo]

Stumbled on this new lecture the other day and it was very interesting:

65N3eP2yvbQ

[FunkMasterFlame]

This is by far the best, most concise piece of evidence proving to me there was a conspiracy to kill JFK.

6xEK16kLHsM

There's absolutely no way that Oswald, acting as a lone gunman, would have been able to call off the Secret Service agent that was responsible for protecting the back of the presidents limo. The fact that JFK's own SS set him up is undeniable proof there was a conspiracy.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Leaving all the forensic evidence aside there is one piece of evidence that makes this STINK of a conspiracy and I am NOT a tinfoil hat guy.

The team assigned to investigate the case was not given subpoena powers...

[FLAME ENVY]

A witness confirmed that the package he was carrying was nothing more than curtain rods.

No. That is what Oswald stated was in the package. I have never heard of any witness claiming to have seen "curtain rods". That is pure fallacy, sorry.

There is overwhelming, factual evidence that implicates Oswald taking shots from the 6th floor.

[Flabbibulin]

This is by far the best, most concise piece of evidence proving to me there was a conspiracy to kill JFK.

6xEK16kLHsM

There's absolutely no way that Oswald, acting as a lone gunman, would have been able to call off the Secret Service agent that was responsible for protecting the back of the presidents limo. The fact that JFK's own SS set him up is undeniable proof there was a conspiracy.

There are dozens of other examples, before Nov 22, of Kennedy riding around in a motorcade with the bubbletop down and no secret service agents on the bumper. This video makes the assumption that the secret service always stood on the back of the Presidential limo and this day was the one exception. A poorly managed protection team, prone to making foolish decisions, doesnt prove a conspiracy, but it does help explain how the assassination was a success.

[FLAME ENVY]

I never questioned that Oswald pulled the trigger. He probably was the lone shooter but maybe not. What has always left me unsatisfied is what was the motive and who if anyone was behind Oswald? The inquiry left everybody with too many questions and than they sealed the files. Why did they do this? What if anything are they hiding? I've been waiting since I heard the news.

I wholly concur. Would have been interesting if Oswald had actually been brought to trial. He was a nut case and may have never provided anything meaningful however.

The way Oswald was paraded out of DP headquarters in front of a myriad of media and other wanderers would never happen in this day & age. He would be in very protective custody at all times.

[Delthefunky]

Just listened to Dan Carlin openly postulate that a coverup by the american government may have been in an effort to avert global conflict. Draws comparisons to the assassination of the arch duke ferdinand that lead to ww1. If the soviets had anything to do with the murder, or if backlash to a communist tied oswald or oswald and conspirators would have caused an appetite for open war, i could buy the idea of a "just coverup"

just theoretical i know, but kind of opened my eyes to the idea that there may have been things more valuable than the truth at stake.

Dan Carlin is awesome. He offers such well informed perspectives and he goes so in depth, it's addicting.

On twitter the other day, he posted a link to footage of the Zapruder film, that had been stabilized. It's obviously very graphic, but it provides a clearer view.

[NSFW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqk3sdfXFkc

[FunkMasterFlame]

There are dozens of other examples, before Nov 22, of Kennedy riding around in a motorcade with the bubbletop down and no secret service agents on the bumper. This video makes the assumption that the secret service always stood on the back of the Presidential limo and this day was the one exception. A poorly managed protection team, prone to making foolish decisions, doesnt prove a conspiracy, but it does help explain how the assassination was a success.

You claim there are dozens of examples, yet you provide none? Here's a picture of Kennedy in Tampa on November 18th, 1963, just 4 days before his assassination.

http://wfla.images.worldnow.com/images/2975535_G.jpg

Notice the 2 Secret Service agents riding on the bumper, grasping the arm bars, providing a human-shield protection for the president, just like they are supposed to be doing. And yes, that is the same limo that was in Dallas.

Now go back and watch the video I posted again. Look at the agent that was called off the bumper. He throws up his arms in confusion and frustration 3 times, each time in a more exaggerated manner. To me, that is clearly a sign that standard procedure had been broken, and it was done purposefully by a signal from the SS agent in charge, which led directly to the murder of the president.

[Flabbibulin]

You claim there are dozens of examples, yet you provide none?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6kYzhJGqq2M/TOMe1NiZf3I/AAAAAAAAGsc/IqaIHX9AVRQ/s400/JFK-Motorcade-Hawaii.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6kYzhJGqq2M/TOMi1daY-PI/AAAAAAAAGsk/9hnfGfYSmxY/s400/JFK-Motorcade-2.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4r0d6eICBls/T3irYDOWVgI/AAAAAAAAHIE/i60RXXH9wBY/s400/JFK-In-Washington-Motorcade-7-11-61.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6kYzhJGqq2M/TOMi1qlb4dI/AAAAAAAAGss/t5YZFEoLy30/s400/JFK-Motorcade-3.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vFs5R-l9qRc/T3_Z6oRyc5I/AAAAAAAAHSM/_YzhME8ZTq8/s400/Washington-Motorcade-10-4-61.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6kYzhJGqq2M/TOMi1_6QSkI/AAAAAAAAGs0/8jwVenBofgQ/s400/JFK-Motorcade-4.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_gi37Nx0IYE/T3LIYWhCCtI/AAAAAAAAG8k/uOk0er14YWE/s400/JFK-And-Tunisia-President-Habib-Bourguiba-In-Washington-Motorcade-5-3-61.jpg

Apparently JFK standing up in an open-top limo, without secret service on the bumper, wasn't too much of a concern

[Dion]

The CIA did it

This is the conspiracy theory that interests Perry the most. "The problem is, of all of them, this is one I can't debunk," he laughs.

"Supposedly Kennedy was fed up with the shenanigans that the CIA was pulling," Perry said. "He found out the CIA was trying to kill (Cuban leader Fidel) Castro, which is a fact. So the argument is that the CIA felt that Kennedy was going to disband them. And as a result of that, they were the ones that ordered the killing of Kennedy."

Perry points out that a former head of the CIA, Allen Dulles, was a member of the Warren Commission, the special Johnson-appointed panel tasked with the official investigation of the assassination. The commission determined that Oswald acted alone.

Oswald was a supporter of Soviet-backed Cuba.

"We know Oswald was in the Russian embassy in Mexico City," Perry said. "We even know who he talked to. But we don't know what was said. Then a few weeks later, he shoots Kennedy."

"We need to know what happened in Mexico City," Perry said.

The answer, he said, may be contained in still-classified CIA documents. The U.S. National Archives currently holds a number of unreleased CIA documents related to the assassination. Those papers are scheduled to be made public in 2017 as part of the 1992 Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act.

"CIA has followed the provisions of the JFK Assassination Records Collection Act, and the National Archives has all of the agency's documents and files on the Kennedy assassination," said CIA spokesman Edward Price. "The classified information contained in the files remains subject to the declassification provisions of the Act."

So, either we already know the truth, Oswald acted alone, or -- worst-case scenario -- we may never know the whole truth, prompting one more question surrounding the killing of JFK: Would America be OK with that?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/16/us/jfk-assassination-conspiracy-theories-debunked/

[dammage79]

Doesnt the CIA and FBI release all documents after 50 years? I rememebr they released all the Hitler documents at the 50 year mark. Kind of talking about a moot point though as I highly doubt they'll release the JFK documents any time soon.

[Flabbibulin]

I believe 2029 is the current date for a number of items

Edit- oh, looks like it is actually 2017

[FunkMasterFlame]

Apparently JFK standing up in an open-top limo, without secret service on the bumper, wasn't too much of a concern

I like how you completely ignore the photo I posted from 4 days before the assassination, and instead post a random smattering of photos that could have been taken anytime, anywhere.

In fact, there was an increased awareness of a threat against JFK in the months leading up to Dallas. There was an assassination plot uncovered in Chicago (http://www.wnd.com/2007/11/44697/) that aborted a planned trip by JFK, just 3 weeks before Dallas. There was also the threat in Tampa (http://www.sptimes.com/2005/11/23/Tampabay/New_book_tells_of_JFK.shtml) that I already posted, which showed beefed up security around this president.

Consider this photo of JFK's motorcade in Tampa.

http://wfla.images.worldnow.com/images/2975539_G.jpg

I count 2 SS agents on the back of the limo, and 4 visible flanking motorcycles, with a probable 5th one on the right hand side out of camera view. These motorcycles were in place to prevent crossfire and were also conveniently missing just 4 days later.

There is a lot more evidence of a Secret Service stand down that day. (http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/limo.html) How many coincidences does it take to add up to a conspiracy? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpbHW7o0X00)

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Following up on Pylons post about the CIA...

The commission investigating the assassination (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=7RkfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-5oEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7387%2C778309) never received the ability to subpoena (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpoena) anyone.

The fact that the Government DENIED the investigating committee the ability to compel testimony?

Only a guilty party would only do that

[Bunk]

I DVR'd a Nova special last night, on PBS, called 'Cold Case JFK' - description says "a reinvestigation using modern technology and contemporary scientific techniques. Included: ballistics experts reconstruct the shooting in a test of the 'single bullet theory.'" Will probably watch it tonight with my husband. It looks very interesting.

The program was quite interesting. Basically said the behavior the bullet would exhibit passing through bodies is consistent with the evidence.

Also looked at whether there could have been a shot from the front. They had an expert in head wounds from gun shots - he suggested the way the skull fractured, it could have only been from the back.

They then talked about why his body would have jerked backward - they suggested with such a head blow it would trigger muscle/nerve reflex - because back muscles are stronger than abdominal a jerking back can be expected.

[Flabbibulin]

I like how you completely ignore the photo I posted from 4 days before the assassination, and instead post a random smattering of photos that could have been taken anytime, anywhere.

In fact, there was an increased awareness of a threat against JFK in the months leading up to Dallas. There was an assassination plot uncovered in Chicago (http://www.wnd.com/2007/11/44697/) that aborted a planned trip by JFK, just 3 weeks before Dallas. There was also the threat in Tampa (http://www.sptimes.com/2005/11/23/Tampabay/New_book_tells_of_JFK.shtml) that I already posted, which showed beefed up security around this president.

Consider this photo of JFK's motorcade in Tampa.

http://wfla.images.worldnow.com/images/2975539_G.jpg

I count 2 SS agents on the back of the limo, and 4 visible flanking motorcycles, with a probable 5th one on the right hand side out of camera view. These motorcycles were in place to prevent crossfire and were also conveniently missing just 4 days later.


A couple observations/questions- which secret service men are you referring to in this pic? I see 3 (might be 4) SS men standing on the follow up car. Possibly 2 SS agents kneeling or sitting in the President's limo, but certainly not standing. With regards to the picture you posted a few posts ago, I am not so sure that the SS men are even standing on the rear bumper of that limo- looks like they are possibly walking at ground level- difficult to tell though.

Anyway, my point is you can't say that it was completely unusual or out of the ordinary for them to not be on the limo in Dallas.

[FunkMasterFlame]

Anyway, my point is you can't say that it was completely unusual or out of the ordinary for them to not be on the limo in Dallas.

The bewildered body language of the Secret Service Agent tells me he thinks it was completely unusual and very out of the ordinary!

Think about what you just saw for a moment. The man who's only job was to protect the back of JFK's head from a sniper is already in position, running alongside the limo as it pulls away from the airport. Then, at the very last moment, he is signaled by his superior officer in the follow-up car to leave his post, and he watches in dismay (shrugging his shoulders in disbelief 3 times!) as the motorcade pulls away and leaves him stranded at the airport. All of this is done behind the presidents back, without him noticing a thing. 20 minutes later, JFK was shot dead, allegedly from a sniper in a position that could have easily been foiled had the Agent still been there to throw his own body on top of the presidents at the sound of the first shot. And that's assuming Oswald would have even had a clear shot at JFK through the human shield anyways!

A couple observations/questions- which secret service men are you referring to in this pic? I see 3 (might be 4) SS men standing on the follow up car. Possibly 2 SS agents kneeling or sitting in the President's limo, but certainly not standing. With regards to the picture you posted a few posts ago, I am not so sure that the SS men are even standing on the rear bumper of that limo- looks like they are possibly walking at ground level- difficult to tell though.

You are getting too nitpicky here. I've shown between the 2 photographs that only 4 days before the assassination, in a similar city-tour style motorcade, the Secret Service had 2 Agents on the back of his limo and an armada of motorcycles protecting his flanks. In the first photo the Agent on the left of the car has his right arm hooked through the hand rail, and the one on the right of the car is clearly holding onto his hand rail with his left hand. They seen to be elevated and there are no shadows or feet visible underneath the bumper that would indicate walking. The Agent on the left side of the car looks like hes just barely hanging on to me! While they may not be visible in the 2nd photo (I may have mistaken 2 agents in the follow-up car as the limo agents), I see no reason to believe they aren't still there, as they were photographed there earlier in the motorcade.

On the stabilized Zapruder film that Delthefunky posted earlier (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqk3sdfXFkc), upon the motorcade entering the kill-zone, there are 2 motorcycles way out in front of the limo, and 4 motorcycles flanking the follow-up car for some reason. You can plainly see, with no agents on the back of the limo and no limo-flanking motorcyles, JFK was driven into Dealy Plaza like duck on a platter.

[T@T]

The program was quite interesting. Basically said the behavior the bullet would exhibit passing through bodies is consistent with the evidence.

Also looked at whether there could have been a shot from the front. They had an expert in head wounds from gun shots - he suggested the way the skull fractured, it could have only been from the back.

They then talked about why his body would have jerked backward - they suggested with such a head blow it would trigger muscle/nerve reflex - because back muscles are stronger than abdominal a jerking back can be expected.
Even a tree will "spring back" when you shoot it if it go's threw it. Physics!

It's always bugged me that people can't figure out that when you see JFK's head explode on the right side with spatter to the front that the bullet had to come from behind,It doesn't matter what you shoot, a tree, a watermelon or a head it's all the same...it's an exit wound.

When I first saw the Zapruder film sometime in the 80's I kept looking for something behind and maybe slightly to the left yet everyone was still talking about some pawn 30 or 40 feet above to the right or even worst the grassy knoll directly to the right.

Always thought it was stupid and still do.

[FunkMasterFlame]

I'm going to get a little nitpicky here myself, but most of the photos Flabi posted showing that leaving the president is the norm just doesn't pass my smell test.

This one appears to be taken on an Airport runway, there are unmanned motorcycles in the foreground and the Agents in the background aren't even in their car yet. Clearly this motorcade is not even running yet.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6kYzhJGqq2M/TOMi1_6QSkI/AAAAAAAAGs0/8jwVenBofgQ/s400/JFK-Motorcade-4.jpg


This one appears to have been taken in Honolulu during JFK's visit in June of 1963. While there are no agents apparant in this close-up image, this short video clearly shows agents running alongside his rear bumper. (http://youtu.be/cqUGLapfrW4)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6kYzhJGqq2M/TOMe1NiZf3I/AAAAAAAAGsc/IqaIHX9AVRQ/s400/JFK-Motorcade-Hawaii.jpg


This next one is taken in front of the Washington Monument in DC, the "home-base" of the president, and what I would consider a secure and fortified location.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vFs5R-l9qRc/T3_Z6oRyc5I/AAAAAAAAHSM/_YzhME8ZTq8/s400/Washington-Motorcade-10-4-61.jpg


Washington

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4r0d6eICBls/T3irYDOWVgI/AAAAAAAAHIE/i60RXXH9wBY/s400/JFK-In-Washington-Motorcade-7-11-61.jpg


Washington

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_gi37Nx0IYE/T3LIYWhCCtI/AAAAAAAAG8k/uOk0er14YWE/s400/JFK-And-Tunisia-President-Habib-Bourguiba-In-Washington-Motorcade-5-3-61.jpg


And while I can't tell where the other 2 photos you provided were taken, I don't think you can either. While I've provided the source and relevant date of my images (http://www.wfla.com/story/23913661/exhibit-relives-jfks-1963-visit-to-tampa), you have yet to show where you sourced these images from, or when they were taken. For all we know they could all have been taken in during JFK's inaugural parade in 1960 when there wasn't a looming threat on the presidents life.

[Delthefunky]

Even a tree will "spring back" when you shoot it if it go's threw it. Physics!

It's always bugged me that people can't figure out that when you see JFK's head explode on the right side with spatter to the front that the bullet had to come from behind,It doesn't matter what you shoot, a tree, a watermelon or a head it's all the same...it's an exit wound.

When I first saw the Zapruder film sometime in the 80's I kept looking for something behind and maybe slightly to the left yet everyone was still talking about some pawn 30 or 40 feet above to the right or even worst the grassy knoll directly to the right.

Always thought it was stupid and still do.

I remember once shooting The Yellow Pages with a .45 rifle, and the entry side was a clean hole, while the exit side was a shredded mess. The Zapruder film to me looks like something from behind the President.

[Yasa]

All I know is that the answer as to who really assassinated JFK will have a definite impact on my life and forever change who I am as a person, and internet debater.

[Kybosh]

All I know is that the answer as to who really assassinated JFK will have a definite impact on my life and forever change who I am as a person, and internet debater.

If Oswald didn't kill JFK, then that means I'll never have been born!

[Flash Walken]

There are interesting theories about the motivations for assassination and th potential parties involved.

For me, the most compelling evidence for a conspiracy is the physical impossibility of firing that specific rifle that quickly.

[Methanolic]

For me, the most compelling evidence for a conspiracy is the physical impossibility of firing that specific rifle that quickly.


The impossibility of firing that rifle, that quickly was because tests were done based on 3 shots.

Oswald fired 2 shots. First shot hit the pavement and shrapnel hit JFK. Second shot hit JFK in the neck.

Those two shots created the reaction from the follow up car lurching forward and SS agent Hickey delivered the fatal third shot.

That's the final conclusion brought about on "the smoking gun".

[Street Pharmacist]

The impossibility of firing that rifle, that quickly was because tests were done based on 3 shots.

Oswald fired 2 shots. First shot hit the pavement and shrapnel hit JFK. Second shot hit JFK in the neck.

Those two shots created the reaction from the follow up car lurching forward and SS agent Hickey delivered the fatal third shot.

That's the final conclusion brought about on "the smoking gun".

There were three shots, from one gun, Oswald's. The first or third missed, the other two hit. Why are assuming a second gunman again?

[Wormius]

The Lost Bullet has been playing a few times on CBC and PBS. It goes through a better explanation of the first bullet that missed, and based on the placement of the shell casing on the floor, had probably glanced of a light standard.

The more telling explanation of Oswald's ability to fire 3 shots in near-impossible rapid succession was that in the Zapruder film, he had suspended filming briefly and resumed, presumably sometime just after the first shot.

[Flabbibulin]

I'm going to get a little nitpicky here myself, but most of the photos Flabi posted showing that leaving the president is the norm just doesn't pass my smell test.

This one appears to be taken on an Airport runway, there are unmanned motorcycles in the foreground and the Agents in the background aren't even in their car yet. Clearly this motorcade is not even running yet.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6kYzhJGqq2M/TOMi1_6QSkI/AAAAAAAAGs0/8jwVenBofgQ/s400/JFK-Motorcade-4.jpg


This one appears to have been taken in Honolulu during JFK's visit in June of 1963. While there are no agents apparant in this close-up image, this short video clearly shows agents running alongside his rear bumper. (http://youtu.be/cqUGLapfrW4)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6kYzhJGqq2M/TOMe1NiZf3I/AAAAAAAAGsc/IqaIHX9AVRQ/s400/JFK-Motorcade-Hawaii.jpg


This next one is taken in front of the Washington Monument in DC, the "home-base" of the president, and what I would consider a secure and fortified location.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vFs5R-l9qRc/T3_Z6oRyc5I/AAAAAAAAHSM/_YzhME8ZTq8/s400/Washington-Motorcade-10-4-61.jpg


Washington

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4r0d6eICBls/T3irYDOWVgI/AAAAAAAAHIE/i60RXXH9wBY/s400/JFK-In-Washington-Motorcade-7-11-61.jpg


Washington

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_gi37Nx0IYE/T3LIYWhCCtI/AAAAAAAAG8k/uOk0er14YWE/s400/JFK-And-Tunisia-President-Habib-Bourguiba-In-Washington-Motorcade-5-3-61.jpg


And while I can't tell where the other 2 photos you provided were taken, I don't think you can either. While I've provided the source and relevant date of my images (http://www.wfla.com/story/23913661/exhibit-relives-jfks-1963-visit-to-tampa), you have yet to show where you sourced these images from, or when they were taken. For all we know they could all have been taken in during JFK's inaugural parade in 1960 when there wasn't a looming threat on the presidents life.

The secret service were ordered to stay off the Presidential limo and give JFK some space to campaign... by Kennedy himself

http://news.discovery.com/history/jfk-assassination-secret-service.htm

Does that mean Kennedy was "in on it" as well?

No, it shows campaigning and protection are often two opposing forces

[CaptainCrunch]

http://gal.darkervision.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/jfk-alive.thumbnail.jpg

[undercoverbrother]

I do not believe there was a conspiracy.

[Minnie]

I'm going to get a little nitpicky here myself, but most of the photos Flabi posted showing that leaving the president is the norm just doesn't pass my smell test.


Mark Lane, is that you?

[Bunk]

The Lost Bullet has been playing a few times on CBC and PBS. It goes through a better explanation of the first bullet that missed, and based on the placement of the shell casing on the floor, had probably glanced of a light standard.

The more telling explanation of Oswald's ability to fire 3 shots in near-impossible rapid succession was that in the Zapruder film, he had suspended filming briefly and resumed, presumably sometime just after the first shot.

Yeah, I saw this program about a year ago. I recall they hypothesized that the first shot was earlier than the Zapruder film (he only began filming as the car was quite close to him). It hit the traffic light, and then ricocheted and hit the curb down by the overpass. There was a guy, James Tague, standing down there that had a minor injury on his face, seemingly from a piece of concrete that sprayed up as a result of a bullet hitting the curb. A difficult theory to prove.

[FunkMasterFlame]

The secret service were ordered to stay off the Presidential limo and give JFK some space to campaign... by Kennedy himself

http://news.discovery.com/history/jfk-assassination-secret-service.htm

Does that mean Kennedy was "in on it" as well?

No, it shows campaigning and protection are often two opposing forces

I've already proven that there were agents on the back of his limo both 4 days before the assassination, and the actual day of the hit. I didn't see Kennedy turn around and shoo the agent away, did you?

Whats your proof that Kennedy called them off again? One uncorroborated quote from a guy promoting his new book? I've already linked to interviews with multiple secret service agents that claim Kennedy made no such request. (http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/limo.html)


Representative responses by former Secret Service agents and others to my question, "Did JFK ever 'order agents around', including having them dismount the rear area of the limousine?" were as follows:

Samuel A. Kinney (driver of the Secret Service follow-up car in Dallas), (interviewed on 10/19/92, 3/5/94, 4/15/94) -- "Absolutely, positively no. He (JFK) had nothing to do with that, no, never ... President Kennedy was one of the easiest presidents to protect ... ninety nine percent of the agents would agree."

Robert Lilley (a member of JFK's detail from election night until one month before Dallas), (interviewed 9/27/92, 9/21/93, 6/7/96) -- "I'm sure he did not. He was very cooperative with us once he became president. Basically, (his attitude was) 'whatever you guys want is the way it will be.'"

Arthur L. Godfrey (one of three shift leaders on the Texas trip), (interviewed 5/30/96, 6/7/96; correspondence 11/24/97) -- (JFK) never ordered us to do anything. He was a very nice man ... cooperative. He never asked me to have my shift leave the limo when we were working it."

Gerald A. Behn (chief of JFK's detail) (interviewed three times on 9/27/92) -- "I don't remember Kennedy ever saying that he didn't want anybody on the back of his car. I think if you watch the newsreel pictures and whatnot, you'll find agents on there from time to time."

A photo from the Tampa Tribune of November 19, 1963 -- three days before the assassination -- clearly supports Behn's contention. It depicts agents Donald Lawton and Charles Zboril on the rear of JFK's limousine in both urban and suburban areas, during a politically significant, high-visibility presidential visit to Florida.

[Street Pharmacist]

The Lost Bullet has been playing a few times on CBC and PBS. It goes through a better explanation of the first bullet that missed, and based on the placement of the shell casing on the floor, had probably glanced of a light standard.

The more telling explanation of Oswald's ability to fire 3 shots in near-impossible rapid succession was that in the Zapruder film, he had suspended filming briefly and resumed, presumably sometime just after the first shot.

If it was the first shot that missed, which is likely, then the time between shots is totally normal at about 8 to 10 seconds. Multiple times that's been proven reasonable. Or am I mistaken?

[Flabbibulin]

Some documentary I watched last night alleged that the Kennedy family (specifically RFK) accepted a botched autopsy, with the final results kept very secret, because they didn't want it revealed that JFK was addicted to prescription drugs- which we now know was related to his back problems and struggle with Addison's disease.

[Flabbibulin]

Looks like Boston.com is doing a live blog/reenactment of the entire day.

http://live.boston.com/Event/The_Assassination_of_President_John_F_Kennedy_-_A_historically-accurate_news_re-enactment

[troutman]

Podcast - interview with Gerald Posner:

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/podcast/sgu/435

http://www.posner.com/
http://www.posner.com/b-case.php

Case Closed was a New York Times bestseller and a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize in History. Case Closed was also the subject of a double issue of U.S. News and World Report, and featured on programs such as ABC's 20/20, CBS Special Reports, and PBS's Frontline. Posner testified before Congress about the findings in his book: that Lee Harvey Oswald had, indeed, acted alone in killing JFK. The book was optioned for a television miniseries by legendary Hollywood producer, David Wolper.

http://jimfishertruecrime.blogspot.ca/2013/08/criminal-justice-quote-debunking-jfk.html
Case Closed was not only a huge best seller but a blast of cold air on the fetid distortions; it was a contribution to a nation's sanity and faith in its institutions. The conspiracy industry, of course, saw our book and ad campaign as another conspiracy. I was warned we'd be sued, and we were. But we won every court case.
Harold Evans, (former president of Random House), My Paper Chase, 2009

The book that cured me of JFK conspiracies once and for all
http://www.latimes.com/books/jacketcopy/la-et-jc-book-jfk-conspiracies-cure-20131120,0,928971.story#axzz2lOh2fE1n

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reclaiming_History

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/for-americans-jfk-will-never-be-case-closed-8944486.html

[Cuz]

I have had an on again off again interest in the assassination for about 10 years now and with the anniversary coming up, decided to DVR a few programs on the events 50 years ago today.

One that I DVRed, JFK: The Day That Changed Everything, I do not recommend as it was rather boring. They speak to a bunch of people who met the President before the assassination and go through the events leading up to the shooting of JFK, but there is nothing about the assassination itself. So unless you're one of those people who enjoy stories from people about where they were just prior to a big event, you're not missing anything from skipping this program.

The other that I have been able to watch was the NOVA - Cold Case JFK. This was quite fascinating and had forensic experts analyse and test ballistic evidence pertaining to the assassination (others have posted about this program in this thread). Prior to watching this program, I would have placed myself in the "conspiracy camp," mainly because I did not believe the "magic bullet" theory. However, this show provided tests that showed the theory is plausible. Also, the doctor that said the reason the head went back and to the left because of muscle spasms provided a compelling explanation for this phenomena.

[Flabbibulin]

The one CNN has been showing repeatedly is very good. "Jackie without Jack", produced by the Smithsonian was very interesting as well- actually had a lot of new footage and info- not so much relating to the assassination, but more on the life of the Kennedy's, from Jackie Kennedy's viewpoint, before and after the assassination.

JFK Assassination: 50 years later, narrated by Kevin Spacey and JFK: The final hours, narrated by Bill Paxton were decent as well.

None of the above were conspiracy videos, so I suppose a good number of people will criticize them.

The Jesse Ventura one on youtube is possibly the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen.

[CaptainCrunch]

Ok, I've finally cracked the Kennedy assassination, this theory comes after years secconds of research, painstakingly googling stuff and living on a diet of crack and whisky and those gold fish crackers



the year 2330 or stardate 53614563 mark 5 . . . tuesday)

Spock returns horrified through the guardian forever after chasing McCoy who decided that he needed a drink of actual whisky had slipped into an alternative time line of the United States in the late 80's. He witnessed a time line where Lee Harvey Oswald missed his shot at Kennedy and had shot the Kennedy dog Charlie instead.

In a drunken rage Kennedy had decided to take things out on Marilyn Monroe, but suffering from Rage induced whisky d%%% left him feeling even more enraged and impotent. At that moment Kennedy pushed the old red button while muttering take that you vodka snorting atheist commie #######s (you need to say that in a boston accent and throw in a couple of Harvards).

Of course the Soviets reacted when Khruscheve equally drunk fires back at the States while muttering "Nobody likes a Yalie" oblivious to the fact that Kennedy went to Harvard.

Anyways, the world pretty much ends, the few survivors morph into brain eating 6 armed mutants who deal with first contact with the Vulcan's by slow roasting them over a fire while wrapped in basil leaves and soaked in Honey.

All due to one moment of impotence by Kennedy the world ended.

So Spock decided that the needs of me outweigh the needs of the many, aborst his rescue of Bones, who becomes a delicious stew due to his years of whiskey abuse.

Spock then returns to his timeline, steals the enterprise and initiates his calculations for Time warp.

He returns to 1963 in time to witness Lee Harvey Oswald fumbling with his rifle from the grassy knoll and shoots Kennedy with a submachine gun.

On the way back to the Enterprise, Spock kills three nuns, an off duty cop and four construction workers just because killing human's is entirely logical.

http://www.slschofield.com/star_trek/Spock_and_McCoy_with_Machine_Guns.jpg

Or it could be that cats hated the fact that Kennedy was a dog person

http://www.barnorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Kitty-590x263.jpg

[Wormius]

The one CNN has been showing repeatedly is very good. "Jackie without Jack", produced by the Smithsonian was very interesting as well- actually had a lot of new footage and info- not so much relating to the assassination, but more on the life of the Kennedy's, from Jackie Kennedy's viewpoint, before and after the assassination.

JFK Assassination: 50 years later, narrated by Kevin Spacey and JFK: The final hours, narrated by Bill Paxton were decent as well.

None of the above were conspiracy videos, so I suppose a good number of people will criticize them.


Kind of wondered what sort of PTSD a person would suffer actually witnessing that, let alone sitting next to your husband and seeing that happen.

[Wormius]

Looks like the Lost Bullet is free for viewing on CBCs website.

http://www.canada.com/onlinetv/documentary/the-passionate-eye/8077052/video.html

[Flabbibulin]

Kind of wondered what sort of PTSD a person would suffer actually witnessing that, let alone sitting next to your husband and seeing that happen.

Not to mention the death of Robert Kennedy and her 2 still births. No wonder she smoked 3 packs a day.

[GoinAllTheWay]

The Lost Bullet has been playing a few times on CBC and PBS. It goes through a better explanation of the first bullet that missed, and based on the placement of the shell casing on the floor, had probably glanced of a light standard.


How does the position of the spent casing dictate where the bullet went? Cases rarely eject from the action the exact same way twice, let alone what it did when it hit the floor.

[Wormius]

How does the position of the spent casing dictate where the bullet went? Cases rarely eject from the action the exact same way twice, let alone what it did when it hit the floor.

The documentary does a way better job of explaining, but I'll give it a try.

The evidence as found in the book depository, 2 of the casings were in the same close vicinity to each other, and the other one was off by itself. That indicated to them that Oswald was in two distinct firing positions.

The two bullets that hit were assumed to be taken from the last firing position Oswald took. Therefore, they presumed that the first bullet, that hadn't been found, was from Oswald's first position and was on the one that fell away from the other casings.

Then based on when the first shot was fired, determined where the president's head was (assuming Oswald was going for a head shot of the president), and found that he was located pretty much underneath the light standard. So, it was possible the bullet glanced off the standard. The casing also fell within close proximity to where the original casing did. As did the others when the marksman took the last 2 shots.

[Canuck-Hater]

Qn97UF_kfYo

Watched this on discovery channel last night and really enjoyed it. It explores the theory of ballistics expert Howard Donahue. The documentary also touches on the secret service cover-up, IE: Not following autopsy protocol, confiscating key pieces of evidence, threatening doctors, etc...

[Methanolic]

There were three shots, from one gun, Oswald's. The first or third missed, the other two hit. Why are assuming a second gunman again?

Sounds like a statement of fact.

The secret service agent killed JFK.

[Flabbibulin]

Of all the conspiracy theories out there, this one is one of the most ridiculous. For 50 years, conspiracists have been going on about how impossible Oswald's shot supposedly was, yet come up with this alternate theory that speculates the actual headshot was an accident. Amazing that not a single witness, including several of Kennedy's aides and personal friends riding in the same car as the accused SS agent, happened to notice anything. But, a few people apparently smelled gun powder, so it must be true.

While it is speculated that conspiracy theories are born out of distrust of the federal government, I believe this one has been popularized purely for its entertainment value. Incredible how many people have had their name dragged through the mud by conspiracists.

[Vulcan]

Of all the conspiracy theories out there, this one is one of the most ridiculous. For 50 years, conspiracists have been going on about how impossible Oswald's shot supposedly was, yet come up with this alternate theory that speculates the actual headshot was an accident. Amazing that not a single witness, including several of Kennedy's aides and personal friends riding in the same car as the accused SS agent, happened to notice anything. But, a few people apparently smelled gun powder, so it must be true.

While it is speculated that conspiracy theories are born out of distrust of the federal government, I believe this one has been popularized purely for its entertainment value. Incredible how many people have had their name dragged through the mud by conspiracists.

Hey it's freaky but it happens.:bag:

Rb9rk6M6cpE

[Vulcan]

He does make a pretty good argument that the head shot was from a different gun. Whose gun is the question.

[Canuck-Hater]

Of all the conspiracy theories out there, this one is one of the most ridiculous. For 50 years, conspiracists have been going on about how impossible Oswald's shot supposedly was, yet come up with this alternate theory that speculates the actual headshot was an accident. Amazing that not a single witness, including several of Kennedy's aides and personal friends riding in the same car as the accused SS agent, happened to notice anything. But, a few people apparently smelled gun powder, so it must be true.

While it is speculated that conspiracy theories are born out of distrust of the federal government, I believe this one has been popularized purely for its entertainment value. Incredible how many people have had their name dragged through the mud by conspiracists.

You do realize most of the witnesses didn't get to testify due to gag orders right?