How the Gov't is Wasting Education Dollars

[bizaro86]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/temporary+displaced+Elbow+Park+students+called+abs olute+insanity/9099238/story.html

Great use of money in the inner city where Redford's riding is. Based on the facts, (school old, already wrecked, on a flood plain, extra space in nearby school) the Elbow Park school should get shut down and the kids relocated. But it's a rich inner city neighbourhood, so that's not what's happening. Instead, we're spending a huge amount of money building a temporary school, so the children "don't have to blend with the Earl Grey Elementary students."

Looks like decisions are being made in an exceptional way. I also like this Tory education doozy.

Jeff Johnson, Minister of Education, was quoted saying regarding classes with 40+ students: "If there are specific situations like that, I want to know about them."

http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/793009/forty-plus-students-in-a-class-isnt-acceptable-alberta-education-minister/

Then, after the predictable flood of people contacting him about their children' 40+ student classes, we're hearing this:

"But now the minister says he doesn’t believe widespread reports from administrators, teachers, parents and even students of high-school classes with 40 or more kids to be concrete proof of whether a problem exists"

http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/839307/alberta-education-minister-wont-intervene-in-calgary-class-size-struggle/

So, in summary: We're spending $5.3 million on temporary spots while we rebuild a school in a flood zone we don't need because rich people complained. But we can't afford to keep class sizes below 40+ even though everyone else complained.

Can I suggest a shift in priorities?

[Puppet Guy]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/temporary+displaced+Elbow+Park+students+called+abs olute+insanity/9099238/story.html

Great use of money in the inner city where Redford's riding is. Based on the facts, (school old, already wrecked, on a flood plain, extra space in nearby school) the Elbow Park school should get shut down and the kids relocated. But it's a rich inner city neighbourhood, so that's not what's happening. Instead, we're spending a huge amount of money building a temporary school, so the children "don't have to blend with the Earl Grey Elementary students."

do the kids at Earl Grey all have leprosy or something?

The closer my kids get to school, the more I think about home-schooling.

[REDVAN]

It's always a scandal with the AB Tories these days. Boo urns.

[CaptainCrunch]

so the students that aren't allowed to go to Earl Grey go to Morlok high?

[bizaro86]

It's always a scandal with the AB Tories these days. Boo urns.

This is actually two scandals, imo, with the theme being that Jeff Johnson and the Tories are incapable of competently running education in the province.

[OldDutch]

do the kids at Earl Grey all have leprosy or something?

The closer my kids get to school, the more I think about home-schooling.

Actually from friends who have relatives who go there, it is the reverse. I guess the Mount Royals haven't been too welcoming either. The other concern is that the Elbow Park group will lose their close knit community as the school is a huge part of their social circle. They are afraid that they will just amalgamate the two schools long term (ie: what happens to the 99.9% of us in similar circumstances)

So you have rich people not helping other rich people, who in turn want nothing to do with the rich people spurning them. It is all pretty comical if not for the fact that it is the kids who are in the middle, who despite their silver spoons probably just want to go somewhere and learn.

And they wonder why rich kids have more problems than most...

[para transit fellow]

I recall the Rod Love was upset at the initial move

http://globalnews.ca/news/734591/mount-royal-residents-balk-at-plan-to-move-students-into-green-space/

If memory serves, the kids will be displaced from Elbow park school for 2-3 years while it is being re-built

[Frequitude]

Way to paint this as rich communities fighting and tories pandering to their rich constituents. Get over yourselves.

So you're suggesting permanently removing a community's elementary school from that community? Would you advocate the same for your community? Or are you advocating for bulldozing all of Elbow Park?

[para transit fellow]

oops .. ( wrong thread)

[Frequitude]

As if the real people in those neighborhoods would be sending their kids to public school. If this was about Strathcona Tweedsmuir they would have a case.
But where are they going to sip lattes while watching their kids play soccer?

[bizaro86]

Way to paint this as rich communities fighting and tories pandering to their rich constituents. Get over yourselves.

So you're suggesting permanently removing a community's elementary school from that community? Would you advocate the same for your community? Or are you advocating for bulldozing all of Elbow Park?

Yes. Because that is objectively the right choice in this situation. The school is old, has been severely damaged, is on a floodplain, and a school 2km away. The distance between the schools is well under the provincially mandated 2.4km distance for providing out of area bus services.
http://www.cbe.ab.ca/transportation/faqs.asp

These schools are close enough that they service the same area.

If this wasn't a rich neighbourhood, the school would be closed already.

As to your first statement this is two rich communities fighting. And the Tories are pandering to a rich constituents. This is much more consideration (temporary gym) than a larger number of displaced students got in High River.

[Rathji]

I gather that the Earl Grey school doesn't have capacity for both sets of students permanently, is that correct?

[Rerun]

Bill Moore-Kilgannon, executive director of Public Interest Alberta, questioned whether this temporary school and gymnasium in a well-off neighbourhood that already has excess classroom capacity was anywhere near the top of the CBE’s list of capital priorities, let alone those of any of the province’s other school districts.

“It would seem that those Albertans with the strongest political ties and the deepest pockets are first in line for temporary school facilities,” said Moore-Kilgannon, “while students elsewhere in the province with a desperate need for permanent schools are forced to wait.”

By comparison, more than 750 children in Wildrose leader Danielle Smith’s constituency of High River, where two schools were also badly damaged by last summer’s high waters, will be housed at portables on two sites and share a single gymnasium.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/temporary+displaced+Elbow+Park+students+called+abs olute+insanity/9099238/story.html

[TurnedTheCorner]

I don't need to know specifically how the government wastes money. I just take comfort in the fact that it does.

[Rathji]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/temporary+displaced+Elbow+Park+students+called+abs olute+insanity/9099238/story.html

So I get that there is excess classroom space, but is it enough to house both sets of students?

The fact that it keeps getting mentioned like it has been means I am inclined to think that there isn't enough space for all the students, but they people are complaining for more political reasons.

Anyone have any numbers that can back up one side or the other?

[bizaro86]

So I get that there is excess classroom space, but is it enough to house both sets of students?

The fact that it keeps getting mentioned like it has been means I am inclined to think that there isn't enough space for all the students, but they people are complaining for more political reasons.

Anyone have any numbers that can back up one side or the other?

Earl Gray school currently has 180 students, the breakdown is here:
http://www.cbe.ab.ca/schools/view.asp?id=232

They have it by age, looks like one class per age level to me. The same page says the have 13 class rooms total. That would allow for 2 classes of grades 1-6, plus AM/PM kindergarten sharing a room.

The Elbow Park school enrollment is here: http://www.cbe.ab.ca/schools/view.asp?id=88

Adding the two enrollments it looks like 2 classes per grade would work for every grade except grade 3.

So Earl Grey would probably need to have one portable added to make it work. Instead, we're bringing in portables for everyone, a portable gym, and then rebuilding a whole school. Even if a small permanent expansion was required at Earl Grey that would be the right choice.

[Rathji]

Earl Gray school currently has 180 students, the breakdown is here:
http://www.cbe.ab.ca/schools/view.asp?id=232

They have it by age, looks like one class per age level to me. The same page says the have 13 class rooms total. That would allow for 2 classes of grades 1-6, plus AM/PM kindergarten sharing a room.

The Elbow Park school enrollment is here: http://www.cbe.ab.ca/schools/view.asp?id=88

Adding the two enrollments it looks like 2 classes per grade would work for every grade except grade 3.

So Earl Grey would probably need to have one portable added to make it work. Instead, we're bringing in portables for everyone, a portable gym, and then rebuilding a whole school. Even if a small permanent expansion was required at Earl Grey that would be the right choice.

Thanks for the info.

So what would be the cost of a permanent expansion?

As I assume that being an older school, there might be some asbestos concerns that would shut down the school for a period of time for it to happen, or had that already bed dealt with at Earl Grey?

Could they fit it into the summer months? If not what would the cost be of a temporary solution while it was completed?

[MelBridgeman]

The hill people and the bottom of the hill people don't get along - known fact

[Nage Waza]

I live in a relatively 'rich' area (Aspen and Strathcona Hill) and we literally have no elementary school with any space at all. I have no clue what to do in a year when my son requires schooling.

[Dion]

Instead, we're spending a huge amount of money building a temporary school, so the children "don't have to blend with the Earl Grey Elementary students."

Bunch of elitist snobs!

[Slava]

I live in a relatively 'rich' area (Aspen and Strathcona Hill) and we literally have no elementary school with any space at all. I have no clue what to do in a year when my son requires schooling.

Register him and then he'll either get in or be bused to another school.

[GGG]

I am sure the folks at Earl Grey will welcome the Yop-Gobbling kids from Mahogany that are bussed in because their school was planned for long term school enrolements rather han peek school enrolement like the Latte Schools.

This is a good opprunity to move a school to where the kids are and will be. Normally you have the problem where you have Yop-Gobbling Demand for schools and Latte Excess Supply so you bus the kids in. This time we recieved a wonderous gift of an underutilized school being wiped out so instead of spending capital dollars on new schools in low demand areas it should be buit in areas of highest demand.

This destroyed school should compete for capital dollars just like everyother neighbourhood. Just because it used to be a school doesnt mean it always needs to be a school or rebuilt.

The separate gyms is ridicuous entirely.

[handgroen]

The main way that the gov't is wasting education dollars is by spelling out the word government in all prints and literature, amarite?
jk lol

[bizaro86]

So the inner city now has the peace bridge and rebuilding elbow park school?? That's almost $32MM? I don't know what the ring road and overpasses cost but I know its nowhere near $32MM.

As long as we're wasting money in one area we should definitely make sure to waste an equal amount on every other group of people.

[bizaro86]

Thanks for the info.

So what would be the cost of a permanent expansion?

As I assume that being an older school, there might be some asbestos concerns that would shut down the school for a period of time for it to happen, or had that already bed dealt with at Earl Grey?

Could they fit it into the summer months? If not what would the cost be of a temporary solution while it was completed?

In dollars, no idea. Framed as "will it be cheaper than rebuilding elbow park to add a 1-2 classroom extension onto earl gray" I'd say yes with a high level of confidence.

I'm not sure on the demographics either, when that current bunch of grade 3s is done maybe you just take away portables, never even needing a permanent expansion.

[Temporary_User]

Instead, we're spending a huge amount of money building a temporary school, so the children "don't have to blend with the Earl Grey Elementary students."Who are you quoting here?

[Rathji]

In dollars, no idea. Framed as "will it be cheaper than rebuilding elbow park to add a 1-2 classroom extension onto earl gray" I'd say yes with a high level of confidence.

I'm not sure on the demographics either, when that current bunch of grade 3s is done maybe you just take away portables, never even needing a permanent expansion.

Will any expansion require the school to be shut down? If so, what's the time frame and cost involved in that?

I agree that you could possibly be right, but if you don't know the cost, the demographics of the surrounding area or any of the other details such as plans for bussing, I don't know how you can say with enough certainty that your suggestion is better than what they have planned, let alone be outraged by it.

[bizaro86]

Who are you quoting here?

It's from a CBE spokesman in the Herald article I linked in the OP.

[bizaro86]

Will any expansion require the school to be shut down? If so, what's the time frame and cost involved in that?

I agree that you could possibly be right, but if you don't know the cost, the demographics of the surrounding area or any of the other details such as plans for bussing, I don't know how you can say with enough certainty that your suggestion is better than what they have planned, let alone be outraged by it.

Even if they have to shut down an entrance and tent it off, they could use the rest of the school. Similar to the reno at Western Canada High about 10 years ago. That would require less portables for less time, and a much smaller rebuild job. Since both portions of the job would be have significantly smaller scope, the cost would be less.

[Rathji]

Makes sense.

In that case, what happens to the Elbow park school?

[InglewoodFan]

Love the fact that Sprung got the sole source contract for the gym, and Tim Sprung is the president of the Elbow Park community association.

[Clarkey]

Love the fact that Sprung got the sole source contract for the gym, and Tim Sprung is the president of the Elbow Park community association.

That smells really bad.

[para transit fellow]

Did the province sole source the other three Sprung structures being used in high river?