Rape Watched?

[undercoverbrother]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/photo-public-sex-act-rape-woman-article-1.1487092#ixzz2huQFxmRT


A university student photographed while appearing to be engaging in a public sex act near Ohio University's Athens campus tells police she was being raped as fellow students watched and uploaded pictures.
As many as 10 people watched and tweeted pictures and even a video of the act while describing both their shock and humor of the scene unfolding, according to students who broadcast the scene on Twitter.
The couple, described as being in their early 20s, is seen in several shots leaning against a Chase Bank window on Court Street - just a block from the Athens police station - as the man has oral sex with her.

[normtwofinger]

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

[Erick Estrada]

That's kind of a new one in that he was giving her oral sex and she's accusing him of rape. I'm sure it's possible although wouldn't she push his head away and someone watching catch that things weren't consensual? I would be pretty disappointed if not a single person out of 10 wouldn't come to her aid if she looked like she was in trouble.

[Flames89]

Is regret the same thing as rape?

[Temporary_User]

The article makes it sound consenual. Probably just an embarrassed girl who didn't know what to do to save face.

[Ark2]

It says that both parties posed for pictures with onlookers after they were finished. Yeah... don't think she was raped.

[RyZ]

Definately sounds like a girl that regrets the decision after the pics showed up all over the internet and is trying to save face. Can he charge her for a false rape accusation if that is what it actually turns out to be?

[jhunt223]

The video is on worldstar. If this girl doesn't get charged with some sort of crime it would be a travesty.

[Hevishot]

Classy Lassy. Her parents should be so proud of her! She is on her way to becoming a new internet sensation!

[nik-]

Yeah, if it's not legit, that girl should be charged with something serious. Rape is not a joke and false accusations are not a joke either.

[octothorp]

Moral of the story is that if you see two people having seemingly consensual sex in public, make sure you get some pics of it just in case it later turns out to be a rape case and the police need evidence. Be a hero and increase your instagram likes at once!
And easy with the filters; Sutro might obscure important evidence around the corners, Toaster might wash out facial expressions, and Mayfair is boring. Hefe's probably the best filter for capturing important evidence but still looking rather hipster.

[MaDMaN_26]

The video is on worldstar. If this girl doesn't get charged with some sort of crime it would be a travesty.

You say this like everyone has "worldstar" as a home page... I can't google this at work. On my phone I googled worldstar but I just got hip hop results.

:\

[nik-]

world star hip hop is a video site pretty much, lots of random stuff there

[jhunt223]

You say this like everyone has "worldstar" as a home page... I can't google this at work. On my phone I googled worldstar but I just got hip hop results.

:\

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/ and then scroll down a bit to where it says October 18, 2013. Its the video in the 2nd row, 2nd column.

[Erick Estrada]

Yeah, if it's not legit, that girl should be charged with something serious. Rape is not a joke and false accusations are not a joke either.

False accusation of rape?

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

[Erick Estrada]

Okay so after watching the video if that dude gets charged for rape it will be a pretty sad as she's definitely a willing participant running her fingers through his hair while he's going down on her, flipping her hair back and gyrating, kissing him. I get that he's probably really embarrassed but there were people right there watching and not once does she object to what's going on or reach out for help.

[nik-]

False accusation of rape?

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

wut?

[polak]

False Rape accusations are the same level of rape, except the victim could possibly go to jail on top of it yet its not treated with nearly the same level of seriousness.

Its actually disgusting when you think about it.

[jayswin]

False Rape accusations are the same level of rape, except the victim could possibly go to jail on top of it yet its not treated with nearly the same level of seriousness.

Its actually disgusting when you think about it.

From past reactions, I find people to be generally very protective of women when it comes to rape. Understandably so, but still the reaction when it comes out that a girl was lying, tends to be a sheepish "okay, let's just move on, no need to berate the poor girl, she was probably feeling regretful and confused and acted poorly in the moment because it was all she could think of to do".

Ummm, yeah, and she almost ruined a guys life in the process. That's too bad she felt scared or regretful and resorted to falsely accusing a guy of rape, but you know what else sucks, when guys life is turned upside down because of that desperate claim to avoid embarrassment, which often leads to things like lost employment, depression, and suicide when the lie is successful.

You lie about sexual harassment/rape, you need to be charged, because it's just as serious as sexual harassment/rape. Both cases = lives ruined/damaged.

[rubecube]

You lie about sexual harassment/rape, you need to be charged, because it's just as serious as sexual harassment/rape. Both cases = lives ruined/damaged.

So is falsely accusing someone of murder equivalent to actually murdering someone and should be dealt with just as harshly?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Ugh, I could not fap to that.

[rubecube]

FTR, I'm not convicting this guy, but just because she appeared to be enjoying it doesn't mean it was consensual.

[MrMastodonFarm]

FTR, I'm not convicting this guy, but just because she appeared to be enjoying it doesn't mean it was consensual.

She appeared to be grinding her crotch into his face, then forcing his face into her crotch.

[_Q_]

So is falsely accusing someone of murder equivalent to actually murdering someone and should be dealt with just as harshly?

Well no because in the case of murder, the obvious difference is there's a dead person.

[Vulcan]

Sounds to me like she was drunk as she couldn't say at what time it happened. If she was drunk was that rape?

[Dorkmaster]

Rape is serious and should be punished, but if you make a false accusation you are making a mockery of the justice system and real rape victims. Sounds like there's enough evidence floating around out there that it shouldn't be too hard to determine this one.

[jayswin]

So is falsely accusing someone of murder equivalent to actually murdering someone and should be dealt with just as harshly?

Damnit Rube, don't make me think about, and possibly change my opinion on something I typed out!!!

God damn, I know the CP way of discussion is to never change, never back down, and just vehemently argue your side, but yeah, that comment kind of makes me think.

Maybe not "just as harshly", but I think it does need to be enforced when it happens, and there is a charge for it. I guess my comment was more on the people reacting to these stories than the cases themselves.

The reaction of the masses is usually one of sympathy towards victims (again, I'm right there when it's a true claim), but the sympathy tends to linger, or at least not turn to scorn when it turns out to be false, which usually irks me a bit, as a false claim can destroy someone's life just as much as actual rape/sexual harassment, if the lie is successful.

[Table 5]

It may not be equal to an actual rape in trauma, but falsely accusing someone should absolutely be treated like a serious crime. The fact that this guys name could be in the paper even if he is 100% innocent, could be pretty damaging on its own.

[rubecube]

Well no because in the case of murder, the obvious difference is there's a dead person.

And in rape cases, there's a rape victim. It just amazes me that, despite having a false-reporting rate that is often less than or equal to every other crime, the only threads where people make a big deal about false-reporting are rape threads.

[rubecube]

Sounds to me like she was drunk as she couldn't say at what time it happened. If she was drunk was that rape?

It can be, especially if he was sober. You can't legally give consent if you're impaired. It gets a little murkier when both parties are wasted.

[_Q_]

I haven't watched the video, but if she looks as though she's enjoying it and she's not in any way trying to fight him off or calling for help, then it is 100% definitely not a rape.

[jayswin]

And in rape cases, there's a rape victim. It just amazes me that, despite having a false-reporting rate that is often less than or equal to every other crime, the only threads where people make a big deal about false-reporting are rape threads.

True, and I try to not be that guy in most of these threads, but I'd argue this thread is different because it appears (not saying definitively) that this is a strong case for false accusation, so the comments, or at least the discussion of false accusations are a lot more on topic in this specific thread.

[jayswin]

I haven't watched the video, but if she looks as though she's enjoying it and she's not in any way trying to fight him off or calling for help, then it is 100% definitely not a rape.

That's not true.

[rubecube]

I haven't watched the video, but if she looks as though she's enjoying it and she's not in any way trying to fight him off or calling for help, then it is 100% definitely not a rape.

Green text?

[rubecube]

True, and I try to not be that guy in most of these threads, but I'd argue this thread is different because it appears (not saying definitively) that this is a strong case for false accusation, so the comments, or at least the discussion of false accusations are a lot more on topic in this specific thread.

Well we have to wait for more details. If this guy took her out and got her liquored to the point where she couldn't consent, and then started going down on her, then it's a pretty clear case of sexual assault.

Honestly, the reason I get so fired up about the false accusation stuff is because it's such a huge myth perpetrated by rape-apologists, and leads to #### like this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/missouri-teen-writes-raped-grandson-politician-target-maryville-community-article-1.1489769

[_Q_]

That's not true.

Green text?

huh?

So let me get this straight, you have sex with a girl and in her mind she doesn't want it, but doesn't say anything about it to you, and she seems to be totally into it while it's happening.

Can she then wake up the next day and say "oh God! I didn't like that, it was rape!" and charge you? Doesn't that open a whole can of worms?

[undercoverbrother]

Well we have to wait for more details. If this guy took her out and got her liquored to the point where she couldn't consent, and then started going down on her, then it's a pretty clear case of sexual assault.

Honestly, the reason I get so fired up about the false accusation stuff is because it's such a huge myth perpetrated by rape-apologists, and leads to #### like this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/missouri-teen-writes-raped-grandson-politician-target-maryville-community-article-1.1489769

Thanking this post was just not good enough.

[rubecube]

huh?

So let me get this straight, you have sex with a girl and in her mind she doesn't want it, but doesn't say anything about it to you, and she seems to be totally into it while it's happening.

Can she then wake up the next day and say "oh God! I didn't like that, it was rape!" and charge you? Doesn't that open a whole can of worms?

Get consent first. It's really not that ####ing hard.

[jayswin]

huh?

So let me get this straight, you have sex with a girl and in her mind she doesn't want it, but doesn't say anything about it to you, and she seems to be totally into it while it's happening.

Can she then wake up the next day and say "oh God! I didn't like that, it was rape!" and charge you? Doesn't that open a whole can of worms?

I agree with you if she's sober and doesn't really want to but decides not to say anything and goes along with it and appears to enjoy it (run on sentence!). But as soon as alcohol enters the discussion, it's a whole new ball game.

[Table 5]

Well we have to wait for more details. If this guy took her out and got her liquored to the point where she couldn't consent, and then started going down on her, then it's a pretty clear case of sexual assault.

The thing is you can't just start making up nefarious what-ifs or reasons about how this could be an evil rape plot. Because if that's the case, Im sure someone could also start thinking up stories about how she drugged him or blackmailed him into sex. There is still that whole "innocent till proven guilty" thing. From what we have to work with right now (ie, the video) it seems like it's pretty consensual. I guess we'll have to see how it shakes out (that is if we don't all forget it).

At the end of the day though, if he did rape her, he should be thrown in jail. And at the end of the day, if she is lying, she should be thrown in jail. I don't think thats unfair.

[jayswin]

The thing is you can't just start making up nefarious what-ifs or reasons about how this could be an evil rape plot. Because if that's the case, Im sure someone could also start thinking up stories about how she drugged him or blackmailed him into sex. There is still that whole "innocent till proven guilty" thing. From what we have to work with right now (ie, the video) it seems like it's pretty consensual. I guess we'll have to see how it shakes out (that is if we don't all forget it).

At the end of the day though, if he did rape her, he should be get thrown in jail. And at the end of the day, if she is lying, she should get thrown in jail. I don't think thats unfair.

Completely fair, and that's all I was trying to get at with my comments in this thread, but I guess I didn't articulate it very well. Which is par for the course for me. :bag:

[sureLoss]

It is possible that the guy slipped something in her drink (e.g. roofie/ghb etc.), we just don't know all the details before the video started happening. If she was under the influence of something like that and still appeared to enjoy it, it is still rape.

[rubecube]

I agree with you if she's sober and doesn't really want to but decides not to say anything and goes along with ait nd appears to enjoy it (run on sentence!). But as soon as alcohol enters the discussion, it's a whole new ball game.

There can be a whole whack of reasons why a girl might not say no and appear to enjoy it (fear being a big reason). It's really up to you to get consent. If a girl says "yes" and then cries rape afterwards, then you have a whole different story.

But seriously, just get consent.

[jayswin]

There can be a whole whack of reasons why a girl might not say no and appear to enjoy it (fear being a big reason). It's really up to you to get consent. If a girl says "yes" and then cries rape afterwards, then you have a whole different story.

But seriously, just get consent.

Whoops, that's what I meant to say in my post. "As long as she agrees". I suck today.

[undercoverbrother]

I haven't watched the video, but if she looks as though she's enjoying it and she's not in any way trying to fight him off or calling for help, then it is 100% definitely not a rape.

That's not true.

Green text?

huh?

So let me get this straight, you have sex with a girl and in her mind she doesn't want it, but doesn't say anything about it to you, and she seems to be totally into it while it's happening.

Can she then wake up the next day and say "oh God! I didn't like that, it was rape!" and charge you? Doesn't that open a whole can of worms?


I believe there issue is the enlarged portion of your post.

How can you say what she does or does not do if you have not seem the video?

[rubecube]

At the end of the day though, if he did rape her, he should be thrown in jail. And at the end of the day, if she is lying, she should be thrown in jail. I don't think thats unfair.

And I totally agree. It just seems like the false-reporting thing comes up in every CP thread about rape, but we never see it in any other crime-related threads. Why do you think that is?

[jayswin]

It is possible that the guy slipped something in her drink (e.g. roofie/ghb etc.), we just don't know all the details before the video started happening. If she was under the influence of something like that and still appeared to enjoy it, it is still rape.

Yes, that's possible I guess. And judging by the video, maybe she did the same to him? We can make up what ifs all we want, but sheesh, yes maybe he drugged her, let's just go with it!

[rubecube]

[/SIZE]








I believe there issue is the enlarged portion of your post.

How can you say what she does or does not do if you have not seem the video?

Well that and the whole "it can't be rape if she's enjoying herself." Physical stimulation doesn't negate emotional trauma.

[CaptainCrunch]

I haven't watched the video, but if she looks as though she's enjoying it and she's not in any way trying to fight him off or calling for help, then it is 100% definitely not a rape.

Huh? define the whole she's enjoying it thing? Please enlighten me.

A girl that's had too much to drink and is lying there getting raped is grunting and groaning? Is she enjoying it?

Same story with a girl that's had a roofee slipped into her drink.

As a guy, even I know that the biggest thing is to ask "Are you sure" after a night of dropping depth charges and cheap beer.

The old image of grabbing a girl after a night in the bar and taking her home where she's piss out of her mind drunk and slamming her against the wall and hammering her in the hallway is dead.

Its her body, if she can't say yes or understand what's going on because she can barely stand up, then your taking advantage of a situation that she can't make a clear judgement on.

do you want to have sex? Yes, its that easy.

If you say, do you want to have sex? and she throws up on your shoes and falls face first onto the carpet with her skirt flipped up, that's not consent.

At the very least in this case, the police have to become involved as soon as she cried rape. If witness say that she was that drunk, that she didn't consent, then the law calls that rape.

[jayswin]

And I totally agree. It just seems like the false-reporting thing comes up in every CP thread about rape, but we never see it in any other crime-related threads. Why do you think that is?

I guess because of the public shame lashed towards rapists/sexual harassers? You're really putting a guy in a shameful/shunned category of society if you successfully falsely accuse them, but you're definitely right that the outcry is odd considering the stats, and I say that as one of the ones who worries and comments about it. :bag:

[_Q_]

Get consent first. It's really not that ####ing hard.

There can be a whole whack of reasons why a girl might not say no and appear to enjoy it (fear being a big reason). It's really up to you to get consent. If a girl says "yes" and then cries rape afterwards, then you have a whole different story.

But seriously, just get consent.

But a lot of times with sex, consent is implied. Does everyone have to ask "hey, would it be ok to have sexual intercourse right now?"

Come on, this is the real world we're talking about, not hypotheticals.

[Table 5]

And I totally agree. It just seems like the false-reporting thing comes up in every CP thread about rape, but we never see it in any other crime-related threads. Why do you think that is?

Probably because anything to do with sex is always more of a story than something like say, tax evasion. People like their drama.

It should all be treated seriously though. Falsely accusing someone of anything illegal that has potential to do serious damage, should not be something that comes without consequence.

[jayswin]

The old image of grabbing a girl after a night in the bar and taking her home where she's piss out of her mind drunk and slamming her against the wall and hammering her in the hallway is dead.


Ummm, I don't believe that scenario was ever "alive" as a legitimate way to have sex, there captain. :blink:

[CaptainCrunch]

I guess because of the public shame lashed towards rapists/sexual harassers? You're really putting a guy in a shameful/shunned category of society if you successfully falsely accuse them, but you're definitely right that the outcry is odd considering the stats, and I say that as one of the ones who worries and comments about it. :bag:

Remember, it wasn't that long ago that a rape accuser's past, their manner of dress and everything else could be dredged up by the defense. I was always amazed that there were ever any woman that were willing to stand up against sexual assault.

Thank god our court system moved forward from that.

[CaptainCrunch]

Ummm, I don't believe that scenario was ever "alive" as a legitimate way to have sex, there captain. :blink:

What you don't watch movies?

[_Q_]

What you don't watch movies?

Not the same type you watch apparently :)

[rubecube]

But a lot of times with sex, consent is implied. Does everyone have to ask "hey, would it be ok to have sexual intercourse right now?"

Come on, this is the real world we're talking about, not hypotheticals.

Who is it implied by? A recent study suggests that many men are very poor at reading non-verbal cues, so what you think might be implied may not actually be the case.

And there are many ways of getting verbal consent that aren't cold and technical. Maybe you need to brush up on your pillow-talk.

[_Q_]

Who is it implied by? A recent study suggests that many men are very poor at reading non-verbal cues, so what you think might be implied may not actually be the case.

And there are many ways of getting verbal consent that aren't cold and technical. Maybe you need to brush up on your pillow-talk.

So if a girl playfully says "No", giggles proceeds to keep trying to turn you on and pull you on top of her, doesn't resist and seems to be enjoying it while it's happening is it rape? You didn't get verbal confirmation that it's OK, but it was implied that she'd like to have sex.

Similarly, if you tell a girl "I'm going to #### your brains out b###" and she looks terrified, says "OK", resists, is crying through the whole thing and just wants to be left alone after, does the fact she was OK make it consensual?

All I'm saying is it's never black and white and simply hearing a "Yes" or "No" rarely mean anything.

[Brannigans Law]

Apparently tacit approval of sex leaves us all open to rape charges, according to some here.

[rubecube]

So if a girl playfully says "No", giggles proceeds to keep trying to turn you on and pull you on top of her, doesn't resist and seems to be enjoying it while it's happening is it rape? You didn't get verbal confirmation that it's OK, but it was implied that she'd like to have sex.

Has this actually happened to you? I didn't say that not getting verbal consent equals rape 100% of the time. I said not getting verbal consent can be considered sexual assault, and there are numerous reasons why a woman may not resist. All I said, is it's much easier to just get consent and then not have to worry about it.

All I'm saying is it's never black and white and simply hearing a "Yes" or "No" rarely mean anything.

Dude, it's 2013, "no" means "no."

[rubecube]

Apparently tacit approval of sex leaves us all open to rape charges, according to the law.

Fixed.

[Superfraggle]

So if a girl playfully says "No", giggles proceeds to keep trying to turn you on and pull you on top of her, doesn't resist and seems to be enjoying it while it's happening is it rape? You didn't get verbal confirmation that it's OK, but it was implied that she'd like to have sex.

All I'm saying is it's never black and white and simply hearing a "Yes" or "No" rarely mean anything.

If a girl says "no", don't have sex with her. Black and white is actually a good policy in this case. Verbal "no" wins over implied "yes" every time. If they actually want to have sex with you, you can get the verbal "yes". If they keep playing coy and won't say "yes" after you've made it clear you won't do it without the "yes", guess what? They don't want to have sex with you.

[evman150]

The girl should serve jail time. Period.

She is the reason why police don't take rape seriously. Throw the book at her. Disgusting.

[undercoverbrother]

She is the reason why police don't take rape seriously. .

Really?

[jhunt223]

FTR, I'm not convicting this guy, but just because she appeared to be enjoying it doesn't mean it was consensual.

If she is alert enough to grab the back of his head and shove it into her crotch and flip her hair around like she is shooting a porno, she is alert enough to say no or have put a stop to this, especially with a crowd around. All she had to say was no and there would have been guys stomping this guys head into the ground. This isn't rape. She's a terrible person and she should be punished.

[undercoverbrother]

If she is alert enough to grab the back of his head and shove it into her head and flip her hair around like she is shooting a porno, she is alert enough to say no or have put a stop to this, especially with a crowd around. All she had to say was no and there would have been guys stomping this guys head into the ground. This isn't rape. She's a terrible person and she should be punished.


oh there are terrible people around here that is for sure..........

[jayswin]

The girl should serve jail time. Period.

She is the reason why police don't take rape seriously. Throw the book at her. Disgusting.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/confused.gif (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=UwaZv7HjH-dlvM&tbnid=UG4reW8_QX5UVM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.com%2Fryan-reynolds-is-confused%2F&ei=eLJhUoC-JabNiwLc94GABw&bvm=bv.54934254,d.cGE&psig=AFQjCNFL9Y34tDE7M4gAgmzgpYIsymKXPg&ust=1382220781242816)

[rubecube]

If she is alert enough to grab the back of his head and shove it into her head and flip her hair around like she is shooting a porno, she is alert enough to say no or have put a stop to this, especially with a crowd around.

Because people can't do these things if they've been drugged or are drunk?

All she had to say was no and there would have been guys stomping this guys head into the ground. This isn't rape. She's a terrible person and she should be punished.

I wouldn't really expect anything less from you.

[evman150]

Really?

It would be more constructive if you specified what exactly you have issue with in my statement, instead of the silly flyby that I have no idea how to respond to.

[undercoverbrother]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/confused.gif (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=UwaZv7HjH-dlvM&tbnid=UG4reW8_QX5UVM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.com%2Fryan-reynolds-is-confused%2F&ei=eLJhUoC-JabNiwLc94GABw&bvm=bv.54934254,d.cGE&psig=AFQjCNFL9Y34tDE7M4gAgmzgpYIsymKXPg&ust=1382220781242816)

It would be more constructive if you specified what exactly you have issue with in my statement, instead of the silly flyby that I have no idea how to respond to.


Really, you can't understand why I would question "police don't take rape seriously"

How do you know?

Are you a copper?

[jhunt223]

Because people can't do these things if they've been drugged or are drunk?



I wouldn't really expect anything less from you.

And what... people who have been drugged can't say no? They maintain the ability to play it up for the crowd and flip their hair around and girate, but somehow they can't say the word "no". Honestly you guys are over thinking this because it's a poor little female. She posed for pictures with the guy afterwards for christs sake.

[undercoverbrother]

And what... people who have been drugged can't say no? They maintain the ability to play it up for the crowd and flip their hair around and girate, but somehow they can't say the word "no". Honestly you guys are over thinking this because it's a poor little female. She posed for pictures with the guy afterwards for christ sake.


Ok, I see you point, maybe her mind was on other things, like if this would increase the size of her vagina.

Your misogynistic track record doesn't help you.

[DuffMan]

I've never asked for consent. I would assume if she doesn't say no and doesn't stand up and walk away, that is implied consent. I've never been charged for rape either. the worst is they never called me, but I got over it.

[evman150]

Really, you can't understand why I would question "police don't take rape seriously"

How do you know?

Are you a copper?

What - are you a copper? You sound offended.

Misogynists are quick to blame the female - "she asked for it". I think that attitude is disgusting. This girl's actions are what feeds the misogynists. I'll let you fill in the other steps of the argument.

[undercoverbrother]

What - are you a copper? You sound offended.

Misogynists are quick to blame the female - "she asked for it". I think that attitude is disgusting. This girl's actions are what feeds the misogynists. I'll let you fill in the other steps of the argument.


Nope not a copper, just play on on TV.

You claim "police don't take rape seriously" I would like you to defend that statement with some supporting evidence.

[rubecube]

And what... people who have been drugged can't say no?

Have you ever taken any of the drugs associated with date rape, or know anything about their pharmacology? I'm not saying this girl was drugged or drunk. And I already stated that if they were both equally smashed then the charges likely go nowhere.

[jhunt223]

What - are you a copper? You sound offended.

Misogynists are quick to blame the female - "she asked for it". I think that attitude is disgusting. This girl's actions are what feeds the misogynists. I'll let you fill in the other steps of the argument.

As a staunch misogynist I can confirm this. This is essentially how I view 50% of college setting "rapes" as taking place. Just a gut feeling. When a video like this surfaces that number only climbs higher. She set real rape victims back tremendously with her antics here.

[evman150]

Nope not a copper, just play on on TV.

You claim I would like you to defend that statement with some supporting evidence.

Guess you couldn't fill in the suppressed premise of my argument. :no:

[undercoverbrother]

Guess you couldn't fill in the suppressed premise of my argument. :no:

Guess you couldn't support your assertion with any evidence :hmm:

[rubecube]

I've never asked for consent. I would assume if she doesn't say no and doesn't stand up and walk away, that is implied consent. I've never been charged for rape either. the worst is they never called me, but I got over it.

And you know what, you might be right the majority of the time but if you do some research on sexual assault, you'll come across a number of reasons why a woman might not fight back.

I guess I just don't understand why it's so difficult for people to get consent. It's a good habit to get into and can save you and other people a lot of problems.

[evman150]

Guess you couldn't support your assertion with any evidence :hmm:

You doubt the assertion that police are more misogynistic than the average joe?

If you want evidence for it, I'm not going to to your googletarding for you.

[pylon]

Dude, it's 2013, "no" means "no."

Not to be contrary for the hell of it, but I dated a girl a few years back that had hardcore rape fantasies, and no definitely meant yes. It isn't that cut and dry.

Probably TMI, but that 'fetish' certainly exists.

[undercoverbrother]

You doubt the assertion that police are more misogynistic than the average joe?

If you want evidence for it, I'm not going to to your googletarding for you.

Oh I see so not only are the police negligent in the execution of their duties, they are misogynists.......hmmm.....I am pretty confident that you don't have any evidence to support you statement that "police don't take rape seriously" and were just talking out your a$$.

[evman150]

And you know what, you might be right the majority of the time but if you do some research on sexual assault, you'll come across a number of reasons why a woman might not fight back.

I guess I just don't understand why it's so difficult for people to get consent. It's a good habit to get into and can save you and other people a lot of problems.

We agree on so many things. I believe we have similar socio-political viewpoints.

This girl was in public shoving this guy's head into her box. If anything, the guy has a right to call rape more than the girl.

I appreciate your left wing defence, because usually I'm the one giving that type of argument, but here you're hopelessly wrong.

[Coach]

Get consent first. It's really not that ####ing hard.

Do we need written consent for all sexual activity now? Don't know about anyone else but I can't ever recall needing some formal agreement stating that we were engaging in a consensual act. Usually if a girl takes her clothes off and basically allows me free reign about her body, I feel like it's not rape...

[jayswin]

I always like when this topic comes up because everyone says things that make me go "whoa".

[DuffMan]

And you know what, you might be right the majority of the time but if you do some research on sexual assault, you'll come across a number of reasons why a woman might not fight back.

I guess I just don't understand why it's so difficult for people to get consent. It's a good habit to get into and can save you and other people a lot of problems.


fight back? even if they showed total disinterest I would get up and leave.

Maybe some guys wouldn't but I think at least I would pick up on the bad vibes. I don't think I 've ever been in a situation where the girl was not showing interest in what was going on and I would assume that is consent. Sure I've had girls look like they had second thoughts and regrets, mere minutes after, like my girlfriends sister for instance, but never before or during.

[DuffMan]

Do we need written consent for all sexual activity now? Don't know about anyone else but I can't ever recall needing some formal agreement stating that we were engaging in a consensual act. Usually if a girl takes her clothes off and basically allows me free reign about her body, I feel like it's not rape...


We need a checklist.

[evman150]

Do we need written consent for all sexual activity now? Don't know about anyone else but I can't ever recall needing some formal agreement stating that we were engaging in a consensual act. Usually if a girl takes her clothes off and basically allows me free reign about her body, I feel like it's not rape...

And that's the salient point here. The main reason I am so vehemently against this girl is that I could easily have been that guy. I've done some wild and somewhat public #### that I would not have wanted on facebook and twitter. This guy did nothing more than me or you or millions of other guys have done. But because the girl feels embarrassed and ashamed his life is possibly ruined.

This could have been me. My life could have been ruined by a vindictive girl. Thankfully it wasn't me, but I'm sure as hell going to stand up for a guy whose life could hang in the balance here.

[evman150]

We need a checklist.

I'm gonna start carrying around waivers at the bar.

[rubecube]

Not to be contrary for the hell of it, but I dated a girl a few years back that had hardcore rape fantasies, and no definitely meant yes. It isn't that cut and dry.

Probably TMI, but that 'fetish' certainly exists.

I'm assuming this was established at some point ahead of time in the relationship? I don't think you just raped her one night and hoped she'd be into it.

[return to the red]

Hmm, I wonder if the rape implication isn't that act itself but the video taping of it? She probably didn't consent to that

[jammies]

Reading the news story, the accusation seems highly unlikely in the extreme. That she did not give consent and yet acted as she did seems a huge stretch - IF the story is being reported correctly, which is definitely not a given.

The story has only gotten wide exposure because of two things: one, it occurred publicly with witnesses, and two, it was recorded and made available for voyeurs. Its message has less to do with another triumph of misogyny, and is rather more like another example of how reality is increasingly defined by outlier events that make it to the media.

[rubecube]

Do we need written consent for all sexual activity now? Don't know about anyone else but I can't ever recall needing some formal agreement stating that we were engaging in a consensual act. Usually if a girl takes her clothes off and basically allows me free reign about her body, I feel like it's not rape...

I'm pretty sure I said verbal. Like I said before, 9/10 you could be right, and maybe you are someone who can take a hint when a girl's not really interested. I'm just advocating for what's in everyone's best interests.

[19Yzerman19]

Yeah, I'm not going to watch the video but the notion that drunk or drugged girls who are actively participating in sex and give all outward indications that they're completely on board with it can then allege rape is somewhat problematic for me. I'm not an expert but my understanding has always been that if someone's been drugged they're generally not in a state where they're physically capable of participating in anything closely resembling consensual sex.

The "just ask outright" thing, I don't buy at all, because at some point there's tacit consent. Personally, I honestly don't think I've ever outright asked a girl if she wanted to have sex the first time we had sex, we'd just be doing other stuff which then escalates to getting nekkid. Regardless of level of sobriety.

And you know what, you might be right the majority of the time but if you do some research on sexual assault, you'll come across a number of reasons why a woman might not fight back. I guess I just don't understand why it's so difficult for people to get consent. It's a good habit to get into and can save you and other people a lot of problems.
There's a pretty bright, wide line between "not fighting back" and "actively participating". Yes, there are situations where a woman might actively participate and not consent - if she fears for her life and thinks it might save her from harm. But outside of extraordinary situations, the guy should be able to tell if a girl is down without her having to enunciate it, and saying "no" is not difficult.

As for why people don't ask, that should be obvious. It kills the mood and can just throw the whole process off. "Can you please confirm that I am not raping you when I do this", is effectively what you're asking, which is not exactly the subject matter that one ideally wants on everyone's mind while they're getting down to business.

[rubecube]

We agree on so many things. I believe we have similar socio-political viewpoints.

This girl was in public shoving this guy's head into her box. If anything, the guy has a right to call rape more than the girl.

I appreciate your left wing defence, because usually I'm the one giving that type of argument, but here you're hopelessly wrong.

As someone who's been drugged with GHB before, someone could've shoved my #### into a rattlesnake's mouth and I probably would've thought it was a pretty awesome idea. That doesn't mean I was consenting to it.

[evman150]

As someone who's been drugged with GHB before, someone could've shoved my #### into a rattlesnake's mouth and I probably would've thought it was a pretty awesome idea. That doesn't mean I was consenting to it.

Apparently I have to do GHB. Point taken. Minus the rattlesnake of course. ;)

[GGG]

And I totally agree. It just seems like the false-reporting thing comes up in every CP thread about rape, but we never see it in any other crime-related threads. Why do you think that is?

I think there is a few reasons. One is that being a rapist is the 2nd worse thing you can be behind child molesters. Far far worse then murder, assault, theft or other crimes.

2nd is that if you are falsely accused there is no way to prove your innocence. At best it is a he said she said situation. In other crimes usually there would be other evidence collected.

3rd a probably the biggest reason is fear that it could happen to them. I can avoid being accused of most crimes by not putting myself in a situation where that could happen. If you are single you can't really avoid putting yourself in a situation where you could be falsly accused.

So I see why guys are concerned about it. Its also the most damaging thing you can do to a guy besides kill him.
It doesn't make it equivalent to rape though

[rubecube]

There's a pretty bright, wide line between "not fighting back" and "actively participating". Yes, there are situations where a woman might actively participate and not consent - if she fears for her life and thinks it might save her from harm. But outside of extraordinary situations, the guy should be able to tell if a girl is down without her having to enunciate it, and saying "no" is not difficult.

Just blatantly false, man. I would advise you to do some research on sexual assault victims.

As for why people don't ask, that should be obvious. It kills the mood and can just throw the whole process off. "Can you please confirm that I am not raping you when I do this", is effectively what you're asking, which is not exactly the subject matter that one ideally wants on everyone's mind while they're getting down to business.

Really, you can't think of any creative ways to get consent other than asking outright? Not even simply asking a girl if she likes what you're doing to her? Or a "Hey, you want me to [insert euphemism]?"

[rubecube]

I think there is a few reasons. One is that being a rapist is the 2nd worse thing you can be behind child molesters. Far far worse then murder, assault, theft or other crimes.

I would say it depends on who you are accused of murdering, how, etc.

2nd is that if you are falsely accused there is no way to prove your innocence. At best it is a he said she said situation. In other crimes usually there would be other evidence collected.

People get found not guilty of murder all the time and still have the rest of society believing they're guilty (see: Simpson, OJ).

3rd a probably the biggest reason is fear that it could happen to them. I can avoid being accused of most crimes by not putting myself in a situation where that could happen. If you are single you can't really avoid putting yourself in a situation where you could be falsly accused.

This is true, but there are steps you can take to protect yourself. And yes, I fully agree that women who do falsely accuse men should be punished, but when 1 in 4 women are being sexually assaulted, with only 1 out of 10 rapists usually being convicted, I think that changing rape culture should take priority over the 2-4 men out of 100 who are falsely accused.

[19Yzerman19]

Just blatantly false, man. I would advise you to do some research on sexual assault victims.
Well, I don't think I will simply because I have other things I'd rather spend my time on, but feel free to give me the coles notes version of the circumstances in which a rape victim will act as if s/he is a fully consenting participant who is enjoying the experience and actually not be consenting.
Really, you can't think of any creative ways to get consent other than asking outright? Not even simply asking a girl if she likes what you're doing to her? Or a "Hey, you want me to [insert euphemism]?"
Sure, but by that point you're pretty much engaged in the act, aren't you? What I meant was it's a bit awkward to ask permission beforehand, in the lead-up. It strikes me as an odd scenario for a guy to ask a girl if she likes what he's doing mid-coitus, and have her say no, I didn't want you to do this - why not say so beforehand? Do you really need to be asked first?

I realize this topic is a minefield but there has to be some sort of middle ground of sanity here. Is the word "yes" endowed with some magical significance? If someone can indicate in every non-verbal way imaginable, that they are a consensual participant in sexual congress, but not actually consent, why can they not also say "yes" without consenting?

[ken0042]

This is true, but there are steps you can take to protect yourself. And yes, I fully agree that women who do falsely accuse men should be punished, but when 1 in 4 women are being sexually assaulted, with only 1 out of 10 rapists usually being convicted, I think that changing rape culture should take priority over the 2-4 men out of 100 who are falsely accused.

The last time this discussion came up, the CP poll showed the percentage of men falsely accused as being higher than 2-4%. Although not a scientific poll, the numbers were telling.

[rubecube]

The last time this discussion came up, the CP poll showed the percentage of men falsely accused as being higher than 2-4%. Although not a scientific poll, the numbers were telling.

Telling of what exactly?

[Coys1882]

I'm pretty sure I said verbal. Like I said before, 9/10 you could be right, and maybe you are someone who can take a hint when a girl's not really interested. I'm just advocating for what's in everyone's best interests.

What is a verbal confirmation going to matter if she's too drunk to make a sound judgement or suffer buyers remorse the next day. How can you prove she verbally confirmed?

[ken0042]

Telling of what exactly?

That it was higher than many people expected.

[GGG]

I think that changing rape culture should take priority over the 2-4 men out of 100 who are falsely accused.

Why does it have to be either?

In fact the more false accusations you have the less sympathy real victims get. 1 false rape accusation undoes a lot of the work trying to get rape to be a front page issue. Look at jhunts post, this video for him confirms that 50% of college rapes are situations like this. This case re-enforces his ridiculous belief.

If we want to change rape culture you need to convict men who rape women and punish women who falsely accuse. If there isnt outrage for demonstrbly false accusations from victims rights orgs it hurts their cause.

Now this is based on the reporting currently to date. If she was blackmailed, drugged or intoxicated beyond consent then lock the guy up and it should be pretty easy given the number of witnesses.

[Coys1882]

My opinion on this looks like its consensual but I'm not really buying that this girl knows what's going on. I'm not convinced a 20 year old wants some random going down on her on a public street and I'm also not sure this girl is even aware where she is. She might think she's in a bedroom or something - let's all be honest, we've all been drunk enough to not really know what's going on around us.

Either way I wish one of these guys filming would have asked if she was ok and told the guy to maybe treat this girl with a little more respect.

[Coys1882]

As for false rape charges - the punishment is staggeringly mismatched. What did that girl get who sent an innocent man away for four years because her mom caught her watching porn? 9 months was it?

[Coys1882]

Last one - if this girl is so drunk she can't consent or resist. Where are her friends? Who is looking out for her? How did she get into this state on her own? Damnit I wish girls would protect themselves more from situations like this. It's a crime and shouldn't happen but you should ####ing know it can and could!

[rubecube]

What is a verbal confirmation going to matter if she's too drunk to make a sound judgement or suffer buyers remorse the next day. How can you prove she verbally confirmed?

She can't give verbal consent if she's drunk. We went over this already. You can't legally consent to anything when intoxicated. If you're a sober dude who's cruising for waste cases at the bar, then you're pretty much a sexual predator.

[Violator]

Never though there could be so much intellectual debate on a guy going down on some girl on a street.

[Coys1882]

She can't give verbal consent if she's drunk. We went over this already. You can't legally consent to anything when intoxicated. If you're a sober dude who's cruising for waste cases at the bar, then you're pretty much a sexual predator.

That's a pretty murky area - who is determine if she's too drunk to consent or not?

[rubecube]

Well, I don't think I will simply because I have other things I'd rather spend my time on, but feel free to give me the coles notes version of the circumstances in which a rape victim will act as if s/he is a fully consenting participant who is enjoying the experience and actually not be consenting.

Fear and coercion are the primary reasons. Fear can encompass a wide variety of things from fear of physical assault, to fear of pissing off a significant other, etc.

Sure, but by that point you're pretty much engaged in the act, aren't you? What I meant was it's a bit awkward to ask permission beforehand, in the lead-up. It strikes me as an odd scenario for a guy to ask a girl if she likes what he's doing mid-coitus, and have her say no, I didn't want you to do this - why not say so beforehand? Do you really need to be asked first?

I don't know, I've always found stuff "You want me to blah blah your blah blah" or some similar vernacular during the clothes on period has never hurt my chances.

I realize this topic is a minefield but there has to be some sort of middle ground of sanity here. Is the word "yes" endowed with some magical significance? If someone can indicate in every non-verbal way imaginable, that they are a consensual participant in sexual congress, but not actually consent, why can they not also say "yes" without consenting?

Right, and I think I did stray a little off course and confused people a bit. There are obviously heat of the moment things that happen, or if you're with someone you're familiar with, etc., where people are mutually consenting via their own physical interactions. My point was more for the one guy who basically said "No doesn't alway mean no." If a chick says "no" then stop. If you're unsure, ask.

[rubecube]

That's a pretty murky area - who is determine if she's too drunk to consent or not?

Visibly intoxicated is generally the standard. If you didn't know she was drunk you could possibly claim mens rea.

[polak]

This rape topic has come up a few times and its always the same suspects trying to conceive a way where the accused could still be accused of rape still.

Ridiculous.

"Well if she had a glass of wine at dinner and he didnt then technically it could still be rape."

[rubecube]

This rape topic has come up a few times and its always the same suspects trying to conceive a way where the accused could still be accused of rape still.

Ridiculous.

"Well if she had a glass of wine at dinner and he didnt then technically it could still be rape."

Actually it's generally the usual rape-apologists looking for any excuse to bring up false-accusations that provoke the discussion. To the naked eye, and based on the reporting, it doesn't sound like rape, but we have the false-accusation crowd crying "innocent until proven guilty!" for the accuser but immediately convicting the potential victim.

EDIT: And I don't see how pointing out how the law works is conceiving a way for the accused to be convicted. If the evidence is there, he'll walk. Like I said, only 1 in 10 rape cases end in a conviction, so the odds are on your side.

[polak]

Yeah innocent until proven guilty.

Crazy concept.

[Weiser Wonder]

The last time this discussion came up, the CP poll showed the percentage of men falsely accused as being higher than 2-4%. Although not a scientific poll, the numbers were telling.

The obvious problem with that poll is just because someone thinks they were falsely accused, doesn't mean they were actually falsely accused.

It's clear from this thread a lot of people on CP have no idea what constitutes consent.

[Coach]

I'm pretty sure I said verbal. Like I said before, 9/10 you could be right, and maybe you are someone who can take a hint when a girl's not really interested. I'm just advocating for what's in everyone's best interests.

How does a verbal protect me from anything more than just making the assumption that the girl taking off my pants is consenting to sex? Should I record all my conversations with women?

If someone ever handed me a document to sign before sex I would be reading it thoroughly for the letters "HIV". That is if I hadn't decided to leave already.

[nickerjones]

My opinion on this looks like its consensual but I'm not really buying that this girl knows what's going on. I'm not convinced a 20 year old wants some random going down on her on a public street and I'm also not sure this girl is even aware where she is. She might think she's in a bedroom or something - let's all be honest, we've all been drunk enough to not really know what's going on around us.

Either way I wish one of these guys filming would have asked if she was ok and told the guy to maybe treat this girl with a little more respect.


Yeah she definitely seems drunk but doesnt he seem a bit drunk too? I am not sure how people would view this, when she grabbed his head it looks like she is into it and enjoying it. It looks like the might also be talking/kissing at some point.

[WhiteTiger]

Part of the issue with consent is that it's so fluid. You can't just sign a document at the start, check off some checklists and go. If the lady (or man) does that, signs everything and then decides "Man, that checklist scares me, this isn't happening" and says they are no longer interested, that signed document or checklist doesn't give the other party the right to continue along.

Active participation is usually considered 'active consent' but isn't always.

[GGG]

Visibly intoxicated is generally the standard. If you didn't know she was drunk you could possibly claim mens rea.

If visualy intoxicated is the standard then everyone who meets in a bar is raping eachother. 90% of people at the bar are visibly intoxicated. Essentially that standard would be if you cant drive home you cant consent. Is that really the legal standard?

[DuffMan]

I should also mention there were times my mind was saying no, but my body was saying yes, and I went through with it, and I took full responsibilities for my actions.

[Ark2]

I think there is a few reasons. One is that being a rapist is the 2nd worse thing you can be behind child molesters. Far far worse then murder, assault, theft or other crimes.


I have to disagree. As disgusting as rape is, I think the finality of death will always make murderers worse.

[wittynickname]

Not to be contrary for the hell of it, but I dated a girl a few years back that had hardcore rape fantasies, and no definitely meant yes. It isn't that cut and dry.

Probably TMI, but that 'fetish' certainly exists.

It absolutely does, and there's a reason why BDSM is a fetish as well. But when done properly, there is plenty of discussion beforehand, there are safe words and things of that nature. The discussion is had before any of the acts begin, and thus consent HAS been given for future reference, with an out clause (safe word, etc) so if he/she changes his/her mind, that consent can be rescinded if he/she feels unsafe.

That kind of fantasy, in a healthy relationship, is a fully different situation.

[polak]

I have to disagree. As disgusting as rape is, I think the finality of death will always make murderers worse.

Agreed. Murderer is worse then rapist. Murder is the worst crime you can commit unless you just multiply the quantity of murders.

[WilderPegasus]

I have to disagree. As disgusting as rape is, I think the finality of death will always make murderers worse.

Nah. Some people need killing. Nobody needs raping.

[Stampede2TheCup]

I'm assuming this was established at some point ahead of time in the relationship? I don't think you just raped her one night and hoped she'd be into it.

If you don't just go for it, you miss out on opportunities like this!

b4hNaFkbZYU

[Mr.Coffee]

I don't believe false accusations are as bad as the act itself but I do think there needs to be severe punishment if that happens. That said, and I can't believe nobody has argued this yet but rube cube acts as if just getting consent is oh so cut and dry.

Talk about the epitome of he said she said.

"He raped me."

"She said she was fine with it!"

Uh oh. Now what?

It should be straightforward, but some people are idiots, some people are rapists, and some people are liars, and there are never exact situations when dealing with these different groups.

[rubecube]

I don't believe false accusations are as bad as the act itself but I do think there needs to be severe punishment if that happens. That said, and I can't believe nobody has argued this yet but rube cube acts as if just getting consent is oh so cut and dry.

Talk about the epitome of he said she said.

"He raped me."

"She said she was fine with it!"



Where did I say that? Which do you think happens more frequently, people not getting proper consent and there being a sexual assault, or people getting consent and then being falsely accused? Again we're talking best practices here.

[MaDMaN_26]

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/ and then scroll down a bit to where it says October 18, 2013. Its the video in the 2nd row, 2nd column.

TY.
I'm ready to make a call on this one. He should learn to hold his breath longer or at least have a lighter more gentle thumb action when taking a breath. His chatter was very distracting for her and her orgasm.

She kept thinking I'm sooo drunk and he is doing this ... "SLUT" DID HE JUST CALL ME .... oh god that's the right spot...

etc..

[stang]

Ugh, I could not fap to that.

Dude didn't get naked?

[Travis Munroe]

Good old world star comments section. Always good for a couple laughs and debate on skin color.

[malcolmk14]

But a lot of times with sex, consent is implied. Does everyone have to ask "hey, would it be ok to have sexual intercourse right now?"

Come on, this is the real world we're talking about, not hypotheticals.

No such thing as implied consent, see R. v Ewanchuk (1999).

She can't give verbal consent if she's drunk. We went over this already. You can't legally consent to anything when intoxicated. If you're a sober dude who's cruising for waste cases at the bar, then you're pretty much a sexual predator.

Not exactly true...

Mere drunkenness is not the equivalent of incapacity [citations omitted]. Nor is alcohol-induced imprudent decision making, memory loss, loss of inhibition or self control [citations omitted]. A drunken consent is still a valid consent. Where the line is crossed into incapacity may be difficult to determine at times. Expert evidence may assist and even be necessary, in some cases [citations omitted], though it is not required as a matter of law [citations omitted].

[AFireInside]

Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong.

She willingly made the decision to do this while intoxicated. She clearly wasn't forced, she was conscious, standing etc.

She just needs to accept that she made a bad decision while drunk.

When someone blacks out and drives their car home, they may not remember doing it but are treated as if they willingly made that decision to drive.

I think being intoxicated can definitely lead to a situation where you can be taken advantage of ie: being passed out, barely able to walk/communicate, but that does not look to be the case here in any way.

[V]

I don't know, it doesn't look out of the realm of the possibility that she wasn't capable of consenting. She kinda looks hammered if you ask me. The guy, on the other hand appears to be very conscious. The video doesn't exactly undercut her story, IMO.

[puckluck2]

He looked hammered too. Maybe "eat my crotch" was a little intimidating and he was sexually assaulted and because of his intoxicated state ate her crotch even though he didn't want to.

Consent works both ways. Did he consent her to whip out her vagina and tell him to eat it?