5 RCMP cars get torched in NB. Protestors and arsonists arrested.

[Rerun]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/rcmp-shut-down-route-134-rexton-112558249.html



http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/LVpF4FD6YcBQKFAaYsdvDg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/fr_ca/News/Radio-Canada/131017_qi1jp_rexton-nb-voitures-flammes_6.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BWyp1rlIMAAgBCl.jpg:large

Shale gas protesters and RCMP trying to enforce an injunction are clashing in Rexton, N.B., with the violence including two police vehicles that have been set on fire, and the arrest of a First Nations chief.

In a news release, the RCMP said more than 40 protesters have been arrested for various offences including firearms offences, uttering threats, intimidation, mischief and for refusing to abide by a court injunction.
The RCMP said at least one shot was fired by someone other than police. that Molotov cocktails have been thrown at police and at least five RCMP vehicles have been destroyed by fire. Police are also investigating suspected explosive devices at the scene.

"The RCMP has worked diligently with all parties involved in hopes for a peaceful resolution. Those efforts have not been successful. Tensions were rising, and serious criminal acts are being committed," said RCMP Const. Jullie Rogers-Marsh in a news release.

"There have been threats made to employees who were working with a private security firm at the site, as well as firearms offences, incidents of intimidation, mischief and other criminal behavior. For those reasons, and to ensure public safety, police action was required."

Oh boy... here we go again.

[undercoverbrother]

Let's hope the RCR do as good a job as the Van Doos did.

[Muta]

Maybe they were mad that Fallout Boy wasn't picked and decided to take the song seriously.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Well look how they're parked?!

[icecube]

I fully support their blockade. The land they're trying to frack was never ceded through treaty or sold by the Mi'kmaq first nations.

There are many non first nations in solidarity with the protests and blockade. Also, among these protesters are women, children and elders.

I'm glad that there are people actively trying to protect our environment. It's deplorable the way we're treating the planet.

[Bill Bumface]

I'm glad that there are people actively trying to protect our environment. It's deplorable the way we're treating the planet.

YEAH! Stop pumping water in the ground! It's causing hurricanes!

[undercoverbrother]

I fully support their blockade. The land they're trying to frack was never ceded through treaty or sold by the Mi'kmaq first nations.

There are many non first nations in solidarity with the protests and blockade. Also, among these protesters are women, children and elders.

I'm glad that there are people actively trying to protect our environment. It's deplorable the way we're treating the planet.

I have no issue with their protest, it is the form of their protest, violent, that I have issue with.

[19Yzerman19]

I fully support their blockade. The land they're trying to frack was never ceded through treaty or sold by the Mi'kmaq first nations.
Um, I don't give a flying F%@#. There's an injunction that's been granted by the Court of Queen's Bench. The RCMP are there to enforce an order of the Court. That's the law. If you don't like the ruling, appeal. This is absolute crap.There are many non first nations in solidarity with the protests and blockade. Also, among these protesters are women, children and elders.
Are they committing crimes? Because if they are, I don't care at all if they're women or men or how old they are. If they're obeying the law, meanwhile, then they're not part of the problem and aren't relevant to this discussion.
I'm glad that there are people actively trying to protect our environment. It's deplorable the way we're treating the planet.
I'm all for people "actively" trying to protect the environment provided they're not committing violent crimes. Anyone who supports that kind of "protest" (read: terrorism) can go F%@* themselves.

[icecube]

Provocateurs. Plain clothes police officers lighting their own vehicles on fire according to eyewitnesses. If you think that sort of thing doesnt happen you'd be sadly mistaken.

Everyday this blockade continues, tens and tens of thousands of dollars are lost.

[Flacker]

I fully support their blockade. The land they're trying to frack was never ceded through treaty or sold by the Mi'kmaq first nations.

There are many non first nations in solidarity with the protests and blockade. Also, among these protesters are women, children and elders.

I'm glad that there are people actively trying to protect our environment. It's deplorable the way we're treating the planet.


Title to the land does not usually include mineral rights.

The fact that the RCMP are attempting to remove an illegal road block, should be an indication that the blockade is in fact illegal.

Should Joe Public be allowed to disrupt commerce because he suspects that the environment isn't being protected?

I would argue that better results would have been had for all had they used legal means to express their concerns.

[undercoverbrother]

Provocateurs. Plain clothes police officers lighting their own vehicles on fore according to eyewitnesses. If you think that sort of thing doesnt happen you'd be sadly mistaken.

.

Provide proof of this statement please.

[19Yzerman19]

Provocateurs. Plain clothes police officers lighting their own vehicles on fire according to eyewitnesses. If you think that sort of thing doesnt happen you'd be sadly mistaken. Everyday this blockade continues, tens and tens of thousands of dollars are lost.
Oh, you're a troll, I see.
Title to the land does not usually include mineral rights.
Does it ever? I mean other than the land granted to the railway?

[Rerun]

I'm glad that there are people actively trying to protect our environment. It's deplorable the way we're treating the planet.


I don't think the smoke and pollution from all those burning vehicles is very good for the environment.

http://wpmedia.o.canada.com/2013/10/rexton_fire2.jpg?w=660&h=330&crop=1

[Flacker]

http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100031915/1100100031916


Did these negotiations not produce any results?

I can't find anything definitive.

[icecube]

Provide proof of this statement please.

Can you prove it wasn't? It's a possibility.

[Rerun]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BWy1n8RCEAEeEXQ.jpg:large

[undercoverbrother]

Can you prove it wasn't? It's a possibility.


Nice try fella, you make the claim, it is not my job to disprove it.

I want proof of you claim.

Otherwise keep you tinfoil thoughts to yourself.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Many people on the fence of this topic will most likely choose not to support them due to this violence/damage.

[undercoverbrother]

big picture

Rerun can you please make this photo bigger?

[MarchHare]

Can you prove it wasn't? It's a possibility.

Please educate yourself.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Negative_proof

[Rerun]

Provocateurs. Plain clothes police officers lighting their own vehicles on fire according to eyewitnesses. If you think that sort of thing doesnt happen you'd be sadly mistaken.

Everyday this blockade continues, tens and tens of thousands of dollars are lost.
Seriously? :rolleyes:

[Rerun]

Rerun can you please make this photo bigger?

Just trying to identify the plain clothes police officer provacateurs... :D

[Flacker]

If the RCMP can't get the desired result (opening the highway), roll the military.

It has to be made clear that illegally blocking a highway is no way to protest.

This band obviously went to the Chief Spence School of Useless Tactics.

[undercoverbrother]

Just trying to identify the plain clothes police officer provacateurs... :D


Couldn't you

spoiler it?

[Rerun]

Couldn't you

spoiler it?

ok... ok.

[Swarly]

Can you prove it wasn't? It's a possibility.

I heard the protesters were killing puppies and molesting people.

Can you prove they weren't? It's a possibility. :rolleyes:

[19Yzerman19]

I would point out that from the other side, the title of this thread noting that "natives" were arrested is pretty racist. It's pretty likely if the environmentalists were predominantly white the title wouldn't say "caucasians arrested". I would also be surprised if there weren't caucasians (or any other ethnicity for that matter) involved. Either way, though, their ethnicity isn't directly related to the incident. So yeah, calling you out on that one.

[icecube]

I'm just glad there are people out there that give a crap about our children's future and don't think of dollar signs above all else. The RCMP were the ones who showed up with the sniper rifles to begin with.

A mediator may have been a good idea instead of the aggressive tactic.

[undercoverbrother]

I'm just glad there are people out there that give a crap about our children's future and don't think of dollar signs above all else. The RCMP were the ones who showed up with the sniper rifles to begin with.

A mediator may have been a good idea instead of the aggressive tactic.

I am still waiting for you the proof of you statement saying the police burned their own cars........or did you just make that garbage up?

[Rerun]

I would point out that from the other side, the title of this thread noting that "natives" were arrested is pretty racist. It's pretty likely if the environmentalists were predominantly white the title wouldn't say "caucasians arrested". I would also be surprised if there weren't caucasians (or any other ethnicity for that matter) involved. Either way, though, their ethnicity isn't directly related to the incident. So yeah, calling you out on that one.Fixed

[Flacker]

I'm just glad there are people out there that give a crap about our children's future and don't think of dollar signs above all else. The RCMP were the ones who showed up with the sniper rifles to begin with.

A mediator may have been a good idea instead of the aggressive tactic.

There is no mediation if one party is involved in illegal activity.
Come on man!
Engage in unlawful activity, expect the law to show up!

[calumniate]

I would point out that from the other side, the title of this thread noting that "natives" were arrested is pretty racist. It's pretty likely if the environmentalists were predominantly white the title wouldn't say "caucasians arrested". I would also be surprised if there weren't caucasians (or any other ethnicity for that matter) involved. Either way, though, their ethnicity isn't directly related to the incident. So yeah, calling you out on that one.

Yeah, seems to be how some news outlets have it as well. I'm sure 'some' are involved! Lol

Sad situation

[First Lady]

Well those cruisers won't idle no more.

[icecube]

The companies poisoning the water are the terrorists if you ask me

[Bill Bumface]

False Flag operation.

Thermite found in the police cars. Explain that!

Where is the tail section of the plane?

[undercoverbrother]

The companies poisoning the water are the terrorists if you ask me


Proof

[cKy]

I don't think the smoke and pollution from all those burning vehicles is very good for the environment.


Came in to post the exact same thing.

[Flacker]

The companies poisoning the water are the terrorists if you ask me


You should educate yourself in what fracking really is. Fracking done correctly (legally) poses little or no risk to potable ground water.

[cKy]

I'm just glad there are people out there that give a crap about our children's future and don't think of dollar signs above all else. The RCMP were the ones who showed up with the sniper rifles to begin with.

A mediator may have been a good idea instead of the aggressive tactic.

When did we turn in to London? Were the RCMP supposed to show up unarmed and blow their whistle repeatedly? Ofcourse they are going to show up with guns, they're the fricken cops!

[undercoverbrother]

You should educate yourself in what fracking really is. Fracking done correctly (legally) poses little or no risk to potable ground water.


Keep your facts to yourself.

[Zarley]

Frack those gas-holes.

[Rerun]

Elsipogtog Warriors told Indian Country Today Media Network that they have put out a worldwide call for Sacred Fires to begin, and blockades were set to run all over the country.

Read more at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/10/17/police-riot-gear-tear-gas-and-shoot-mikmaq-protesting-gas-exploration-new-BrunswickI wonder how far this is going to spread? Sacred Fires? What the hell does that mean?

[mustache ride]

I fully support their blockade. The land they're trying to frack was never ceded through treaty or sold by the Mi'kmaq first nations.

There are many non first nations in solidarity with the protests and blockade. Also, among these protesters are women, children and elders.

I'm glad that there are people actively trying to protect our environment. It's deplorable the way we're treating the planet.

LOL at the use of human shields.

[northcrunk]

I have no issue with their protest, it is the form of their protest, violent, that I have issue with.


Scummy dirtbag eco-terrorists.

[Barnes]

I fully support their blockade. The land they're trying to frack was never ceded through treaty or sold by the Mi'kmaq first nations.

There are many non first nations in solidarity with the protests and blockade. Also, among these protesters are women, children and elders.

I'm glad that there are people actively trying to protect our environment. It's deplorable the way we're treating the planet.

They are not fracking anything. This company has drilled zero wells and has only plans to drill 2 exploratory wells.

[blankall]

Title to the land does not usually include mineral rights.

The fact that the RCMP are attempting to remove an illegal road block, should be an indication that the blockade is in fact illegal.

Should Joe Public be allowed to disrupt commerce because he suspects that the environment isn't being protected?

I would argue that better results would have been had for all had they used legal means to express their concerns.

Aboriginal title to land is a different matter. It can't be sold or exchanged to other hands. I'm not an expert on this, but surely the aboriginal title goes further than having control of the land until the feds decide they want to mine on it.

I'd be very interested to see the court decision that allowed resource extraction of any kind on unceeded reserve land...assuming this is in fact unceeded reserve and. If this court decision does exist, it's clearly outside basic agreements between aboriginal peoples and the government. The aboriginal right to land is based on the idea that it needs to be preserved through generations. The aboriginals, themselves, do not have an unfettered right to mine on it.

[Zevo]

http://files.dosomething.org/files/styles/blog_landscape/public/pictures/blog/g1342644987665990101.jpg

[Flacker]

FYP.

But what about Jessica Ernst and her poisoned water well that was drilled into coal seams that the oil companies went back in time 75 million years ago and planted the gas into.

Yeah, I actually changed it after to "little or no", to try and appease the sticklers. But really, any drilling activity poses some small risk to contaminating ground water. Done competently, the risk is minuscule.

[Flacker]

Aboriginal title to land is a different matter. It can't be sold or exchanged to other hands. I'm not an expert on this, but surely the aboriginal title goes further than having control of the land until the feds decide they want to mine on it.

I'd be very interested to see the court decision that allowed resource extraction of any kind on unceeded reserve land...assuming this is in fact unceeded reserve and. If this court decision does exist, it's clearly outside basic agreements between aboriginal peoples and the government. The aboriginal right to land is based on the idea that it needs to be preserved through generations. The aboriginals, themselves, do not have an unfettered right to mine on it.

Not entirely sure myself, was trying to find some information.

In the little reading I did, it appears the majority of Canada's reserves have forfeited their mineral rights, in exchange for royalties. I can't find a definitive list of which reserves have and haven't. How any regulatory oversight, or band approval works, no idea.

If the negotiations occurred that were outlined in the framework I posted earlier, then resource rights (renewable and non-renewable) have already been determined. Again I couldn't find those results readily available.

[NuclearPizzaMan]

The companies poisoning the water are the terrorists if you ask me

Are you sure that YOU aren't the false flag provocateur? You are making their side look pretty damn stupid.

[blankall]

Not entirely sure myself, was trying to find some information.

In the little reading I did, it appears the majority of Canada's reserves have forfeited their mineral rights, in exchange for royalties. I can't find a definitive list of which reserves have and haven't. How any regulatory oversight, or band approval works, no idea.

If the negotiations occurred that were outlined in the framework I posted earlier, then resource rights (renewable and non-renewable) have already been determined. Again I couldn't find those results readily available.

If what you are saying is true, my guess is that the issue came down to how destructive fracking is.

[Bill Bumface]

If what you are saying is true, my guess is that the issue came down to how destructive fracking is.

Yeah, it shatters those poor rocks into tiny pieces. Finally someone stands up for the innocent rocks, and won't stand by while they suffer an unprovoked high pressure fluid attack!

[Flacker]

If what you are saying is true, my guess is that the issue came down to how destructive fracking is.

In an attempt to stop a private company from exploratory drilling, they blockade a public highway. That isn't going to win any public favour! It is the tactics that bother me more than anything.

[puffnstuff]

Yeah, it shatters those poor rocks into tiny pieces. Finally someone stands up for the innocent rocks, and won't stand by while they suffer an unprovoked high pressure fluid attack!

Oh the rock-manity!

Won't someone think of the pebbles!

[blankall]

Yeah, it shatters those poor rocks into tiny pieces. Finally someone stands up for the innocent rocks, and won't stand by while they suffer an unprovoked high pressure fluid attack!

C'mon.

You don't have to be an environmentalist to see there is some risk of ecological damage with fracking.

[puckluck2]

I got to agree with icecube, could you imagine being a fox in the wilderness looking for clean water? What would the fox say?

[Vulcan]

Wouldn't we have seen something in the past 100 years we have been fraccing? That being said some very simple legislation needs to be in place to stop some stupid ass companies, have to assume NB has that.

From what I've heard Irving Oil owns New Brunswick, so they can put whatever laws they want in.

[CaptainCrunch]

Police cars that are lit on fire by protestors don't burn that way. Only cars burned by cops burn that way.

And look at that fact that the police car treads all follow each other to hide their strength.

And the low number of burnt matches, only Imperial RCMP officers have that kind of accuracy . . . err fire starting ability.

[Canuck-Hater]

Its always a possibility that there were Police provacateurs at this protest. It was done before at a demonstration in Montebello Quebec. The police later admitted it.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebec-police-admit-they-went-undercover-at-montebello-protest-1.656171

gAfzUOx53Rg

To think that the police would never do this is simply not true, especially if the goal is to defame a group of people. Park a few cop cars in a intersection, incite violence, attract all the camera crews, and voila.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't know much about fracking, but it seems it is 'bad' enough to gain a lot of environmentalists' interests.

Here is a documentary on this that I keep meaning to watch (I think they are coming out with #2).

dZe1AeH0Qz8

There will always be people on both sides of the argument. Both will accuse either side of lying and making up their own facts to support their arguments.

We live in Canada and sometimes smugly look down on our American neighbors and see how things there can often be 'bought' by lobbyists for pushing what the big corporations want to do. However, it also does happen here in Canada. Canada also has a track record of putting the $$$ in front of not only the environment, but also the health of its' people.

I remember watching a documentary years ago on the oilsands up north, about a Native population that live along the Athabasca river. That community had something like 400 or 500x the rate of cancer - young people started dying from cancer. They blamed the oil companies, and the government sent out their environmental scientist. He measured a number of things (including the Athabasca) and concluded everything was at safe levels. Tribe didn't buy it, and hired their own environmental scientist. He said: "Don't drink the water, don't eat the fish." Turned out it was highly toxic.

What side do you believe? People need to protest things at times, as it is the only way to at least get their voices heard.

[Mr.Coffee]

Oh, you're a troll, I see.

Does it ever? I mean other than the land granted to the railway?

Title to lands is historically derived and yes, mineral rights got split up. I'm not super familiar with reservations because I've never had to really work them but I do know that yes, some reserves were granted mineral title and if a company was to drill they'd have to lease out those rights (maybe for a royalty, maybe an interest).

If the rights were Crown, provincially owned by NB, and a company bought them through a lease, they could get an injunction which would grant them the right to drill / produce. Generally speaking, oil and gas or other resources are considered as resources for the benefit of the people in the province / society and a single group that owns the surface title can't unnecessarily prevent drilling / production. That's why, similarly if you were say a farmer in Alberta and only owned the surface, a company could actually force their way to drill on your land if you refuse to grant them access to the surface (by way of the regulatory body and hearings, whereby said farmer will get justly compensated based on market prices). This is a quasi-judicial branch that doesn't necessarily represent a true court.

The story more or less for fee title (true ownership, including mineral rights) has a somewhat complicated history. But briefly it can be said that the majority of land is provincially owned, some of it is owned by companies as a result of either the Hudson Bay Company's grant or the CPR grant, some of it is owned by individuals- former farmers or passed down through their wills into their families (settlers granted title by the government when Canada was trying to encourage settlement to the western portion of North America) and some of it is, yes, reservations or federal jurisdiction.

Also I think fotze nailed the fraccing thing... I would think that if something goes wrong into groundwater, it's 9/10 a poor cement job with leaks, etc. In fact I was just speaking to a scientist that teaches a course I coordinate on groundwater contamination, and she said essentially exactly what fotze posted here. The idea that the oil and gas industry's fraccing is destroying ground reservoirs is definitely not scientifically sound (at least yet).

edit^^^ and w/ respect to what the dude above me just said about 'well enough environmentalists are saying something so there must be truth...' no. The oilsands? Yeah, maybe you have a point there I have no idea. But fraccing? It's mostly ignorance, a lack of education supplied by the energy industry, poor communication from people in the know, media sensationalizing it, and hipsters making movies like Gasland which are hilariously inaccurate.

[corporatejay]

I don't know much about fracking, but it seems it is 'bad' enough to gain a lot of environmentalists' interests.

Here is a documentary on this that I keep meaning to watch (I think they are coming out with #2).

dZe1AeH0Qz8

There will always be people on both sides of the argument. Both will accuse either side of lying and making up their own facts to support their arguments.

We live in Canada and sometimes smugly look down on our American neighbors and see how things there can often be 'bought' by lobbyists for pushing what the big corporations want to do. However, it also does happen here in Canada. Canada also has a track record of putting the $$$ in front of not only the environment, but also the health of its' people.

I remember watching a documentary years ago on the oilsands up north, about a Native population that live along the Athabasca river. That community had something like 400 or 500x the rate of cancer - young people started dying from cancer. They blamed the oil companies, and the government sent out their environmental scientist. He measured a number of things (including the Athabasca) and concluded everything was at safe levels. Tribe didn't buy it, and hired their own environmental scientist. He said: "Don't drink the water, don't eat the fish." Turned out it was highly toxic.

What side do you believe? People need to protest things at times, as it is the only way to at least get their voices heard.

Most of what you just said is not true.

[Flacker]

Most of what you just said is not true.

Watch TruthLand, made to debunk the Gasland fear mongering.


iTJaaeiuzSU

[undercoverbrother]

I don't know much about fracking, but it seems it is 'bad' enough to gain a lot of environmentalists' interests.

Here is a documentary on this that I keep meaning to watch (I think they are coming out with #2).
.

Not to be rude, but if by your own admission you don't know much about fracking and havn't even watched the informative video, what are you adding?

[NuclearPizzaMan]

I don't know much about fracking, but it seems it is 'bad' enough to gain a lot of environmentalists' interests.

Here is a documentary on this that I keep meaning to watch (I think they are coming out with #2).

dZe1AeH0Qz8

There will always be people on both sides of the argument. Both will accuse either side of lying and making up their own facts to support their arguments.

We live in Canada and sometimes smugly look down on our American neighbors and see how things there can often be 'bought' by lobbyists for pushing what the big corporations want to do. However, it also does happen here in Canada. Canada also has a track record of putting the $$$ in front of not only the environment, but also the health of its' people.

I remember watching a documentary years ago on the oilsands up north, about a Native population that live along the Athabasca river. That community had something like 400 or 500x the rate of cancer - young people started dying from cancer. They blamed the oil companies, and the government sent out their environmental scientist. He measured a number of things (including the Athabasca) and concluded everything was at safe levels. Tribe didn't buy it, and hired their own environmental scientist. He said: "Don't drink the water, don't eat the fish." Turned out it was highly toxic.

What side do you believe? People need to protest things at times, as it is the only way to at least get their voices heard.

So, instead of ~400/100k cancer rate, the native population along the Athabasca river has a cancer rate of 160k/100k? That's gotta blow.

Cite your sources. Maybe during the process you learn something. Maybe. Probably not.

[bradster57]

I just watched Fracknation and it appears to debunk all of what Gasland stated. Fracking has been occurring since the 1950s, I believe it is fracking the shale gas that is the new part.

Interesting debate, but I don't think the gas companies have a chance to sway public perception- facts don't always hold up against emotions.

[CaptainCrunch]

So, instead of ~400/100k cancer rate, the native population along the Athabasca river has a cancer rate of 160k/100k? That's gotta blow.

Cite your sources. Maybe during the process you learn something. Maybe. Probably not.

I was looking at a Canadian cancer study and in 2013 187500 people in Canada were diagnosed with cancer. Out of a population of 30 million it works out to a 0.00625 percentage which when applied to 100000 people means that 625 out of 100000 Canadian will be diagnosed with cancer this year.

I have a lot of problems with the figures that were put in place with the 4 to 500 x cancer rate in those areas.

So right there I have problems with the documentary and its accuracy vs fear mongering.

[CaptainCrunch]

As far as the protests go, nobody has a right to violent protest, just like they can't get all butt hurt when the RCMP turn up to enforce a legal court order to clear a illegal blockade.

The minute protests get violent, they kind of lose a bit of credibility with me.

There are far too many professional protestors in this country that just want to raise hell.

I know there's no chance of a judge throwing these people in prison, they'll be out blocking roads and burning police cars in the name of something that they don't understand in no time.

[undercoverbrother]

I was looking at a Canadian cancer study and in 2013 187500 people in Canada were diagnosed with cancer. Out of a population of 30 million it works out to a 0.00625 percentage which when applied to 100000 people means that 625 out of 100000 Canadian will be diagnosed with cancer this year.

I have a lot of problems with the figures that were put in place with the 4 to 500 x cancer rate in those areas.

So right there I have problems with the Opinion Piece and its accuracy vs fear mongering.

Fix, these things are not documentaries. They have an opinion and work the film around showing that opinion is true.

[CaptainCrunch]

Fair enough, I was trying not to rant and rave.

[undercoverbrother]

Fair enough, I was trying not to rant and rave.


Please don't go changing for me......:)

[Street Pharmacist]

Watch TruthLand, made to debunk the Gasland fear mongering.


iTJaaeiuzSU

Not to be prickish, but that documentary really doesn't show anything. In fact, it's hyperbole and truth hiding is matched only by gasland.

The "Aww shucks" farmers on the video are not that compelling when you realize it's a scripted rebuttal from an agency hired by the companies that do the fracking...

[Street Pharmacist]

I was looking at a Canadian cancer study and in 2013 187500 people in Canada were diagnosed with cancer. Out of a population of 30 million it works out to a 0.00625 percentage which when applied to 100000 people means that 625 out of 100000 Canadian will be diagnosed with cancer this year.

I have a lot of problems with the figures that were put in place with the 4 to 500 x cancer rate in those areas.

So right there I have problems with the documentary and its accuracy vs fear mongering.

We're not talking about cancer in general here.

Most pollutants have estrogenic or other hormonal effects on the body, leading to reproductive cancers. I have not seen any documentaries, but I've heard there is a large increase in reproductive cancers there, which seems fairly reasonable to assume when so many polyaromatic hydrocarbons are released. I'm not sure how you could avoid it there, though I'm not totally familiar with the process

[rubecube]

I have no issue with their protest, it is the form of their protest, violent, that I have issue with.

Because the whole peaceful negotiation thing has been really working out for them these past 200 years.

[undercoverbrother]

Because the whole peaceful negotiation thing has been really working out for them these past 200 years.

So you are supportive of their approach and an advocate of violence?

[Flacker]

Not to be prickish, but that documentary really doesn't show anything. In fact, it's hyperbole and truth hiding is matched only by gasland.

The "Aww shucks" farmers on the video are not that compelling when you realize it's a scripted rebuttal from an agency hired by the companies that do the fracking...


The use of legitimate experts in the field, as well as the head of the EPA, tends to sway me more than the pure BS that is Gasland. I realize this is a big oil sponsored piece. It is the pure reciprocal of Gasland, which is why I posted it.

We are way off topic anyway, there is no fracking being done in that area currently. They are currently only attempting to do exploratory drilling.

[corporatejay]

We're not talking about cancer in general here.

Most pollutants have estrogenic or other hormonal effects on the body, leading to reproductive cancers. I have not seen any documentaries, but I've heard there is a large increase in reproductive cancers there, which seems fairly reasonable to assume when so many polyaromatic hydrocarbons are released. I'm not sure how you could avoid it there, though I'm not totally familiar with the process


The alarming thing in Fort Chip is that there was a huge amount of bile duct cancer which is a very rare type of cancer.

No mention of the fact that perhaps a lot of people share the same genes given they are a remote self sustaining community.

[Vulcan]

Here's an article with some background on the situation in NB.

Currently we’re just in the beginning stages of a scientific understanding of ‘fracking’. In N.B. there have been only a couple of wells processed using this controversial technology, and there have been NO health or environmental impact studies initiated around these well sites. So, as it stands now, we have no way of knowing through a research-based approach what the impacts have or may be.
The Council of Scientific Society (http://www.eeb.cornell.edu/howarth/CCSP%20letter%20on%20energy%20&%20environment.pdf) Presidents, representing 1.4 million scientists from more than 150 scientific disciplines says,“some energy bridges that are currently encouraged in the transition from GHG-emitting fossil energy systems have received inadequate scientific analysis before implementation, and these may have greater GHG emissions and environmental costs than often appreciated.” The development of unconventional gas from shale deposits, the Council warns, is an “example where policy has preceded adequate scientific study.”
Industry characterizes the process proposed for N.B. as proven for over six decades, but “What they fail to say is that they’ve had fewer than 10 years of experience on a large scale using these unconventional methods to develop gas from shale…” -Dr. Anthony Ingraffea (http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=4918403&Language=E&Mode=1)


I think there may be a lot of BS going on from both sides.

http://carlagunn.ca/writing/fracking-in-new-brunswick-canada

[Zulu29]

Because the whole peaceful negotiation thing has been really working out for them these past 200 years.

So what is it then? Negotiate on our terms and give us what we want or we'll block highways and burn police cars?

[GGG]

The alarming thing in Fort Chip is that there was a huge amount of bile duct cancer which is a very rare type of cancer.

No mention of the fact that perhaps a lot of people share the same genes given they are a remote self sustaining community.

It is ezra levant and it was in his ethical oil book but this whole bile duct cancer was debunked and was actually misdiagnosis.

www.ethicaloil.org/fact/mythbusting-do-the-oilsands-cause-cancer/

[blankall]

So what is it then? Negotiate on our terms and give us what we want or we'll block highways and burn police cars?

The historical negotiations were most certainly not done on any kind of fair ground. It was basically: We're taking this. You can have what we don't want. Unless we later find resources on it, then we'll take those. While doing all of this we'll put you in a residential school. Option B: you die.

Specifically, there was no negotiation here. The aboriginal groups strongly oppossed the fracking on their territory. A court, run by the government they oppose, ruled against them. That government then sent in armed men to enforce a corporations right to frack.

[rubecube]

So you are supportive of their approach and an advocate of violence?

Name me a nation that wouldn't respond to encroachment on their sovereignty with violence or the threat of violence.

[Knut]

The use of legitimate experts in the field, as well as the head of the EPA, tends to sway me more than the pure BS that is Gasland. I realize this is a big oil sponsored piece. It is the pure reciprocal of Gasland, which is why I posted it.

We are way off topic anyway, there is no fracking being done in that area currently. They are currently only attempting to do exploratory drilling.

I want to believe you, but your name is just way too close to Fracker... you are likely just a paid company shill trying to hide it with one letter change. :cool:

[undercoverbrother]

Name me a nation that wouldn't respond to encroachment on their sovereignty with violence or the threat of violence.

Are they a sovereign nation? Honest question. Do they sit in the UN? Do they have stand alone capacity? Are they willing to accept the repercussions of their actions with the police/military of another sovereign nation?

I don't think they are a sovereign nation, but if you have reasons/facts to the opposite I am open to reviewing my position.

PS: I have seen, first hand, the results of one "nation's" response to encroachment of the "sovereignty". It make nothing but a ####ing ####hole of a mess, and I would hope we are above that.

[rubecube]

Are they a sovereign nation? Honest question. Do they sit in the UN? Do they have stand alone capacity? Are they willing to accept the repercussions of their actions with the police/military of another sovereign nation?

I don't think they are a sovereign nation, but if you have reasons/facts to the opposite I am open to reviewing my position.

PS: I have seen, first hand, the results of one "nation's" response to encroachment of the "sovereignty". It make nothing but a ####ing ####hole of a mess, and I would hope we are above that.

You do see that you're expecting them to define their sovereignty within the very same framework they've been colonized and dominated, right? Regardless of what you or I think, many of these communities do view themselves as sovereigns who've been dicked around for 250 years by French and British colonialists.

“On the morning of October 17, 2013, approximately 200 RCMP – some dressed in military fatigues and armed with snipers – stormed a Mi’kmaq anti-fracking blockade and camp near Rexton, New Brunswick. Journalist Miles Howe, on site, described the situation as “RCMP having their guns drawn.”

So if you consider yourself a sovereign community, and the police from a neighbouring country show up at your border, in military fatigues, and guns drawn, you just let them walk right in and do as they please?

[blankall]

You do see that you're expecting them to define their sovereignty within the very same framework they've been colonized and dominated, right? Regardless of what you or I think, many of these communities do view themselves as sovereigns who've been dicked around for 250 years by French and British colonialists.



So if you consider yourself a sovereign community, and the police from a neighbouring country show up at your border, in military fatigues, and guns drawn, you just let them walk right in and do as they please?

The land in question is "unceded". Which, from the perspective of the people living on it means it was never controlled by Canada. The fact Canada is now aserting rights over the natural resources on that land is, to them, absurd.

[undercoverbrother]

You do see that you're expecting them to define their sovereignty within the very same framework they've been colonized and dominated, right? Regardless of what you or I think, many of these communities do view themselves as sovereigns who've been dicked around for 250 years by French and British colonialists.

So they get a pass on violence? At what point do we move pass the dicking of the past (yes I know it is easy for me to say, I didn't get dicked). There will be no reconciliation until both parties are interested. I can't believe they believe they would be better if suddenly they were free and clear their own nations.



So if you consider yourself a sovereign community, and the police from a neighbouring country show up at your border, in military fatigues, and guns drawn, you just let them walk right in and do as they please?


It would appear they were correct to have their weapons drawn:

http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2013/10/photo1_4.jpg?w=620


Officers who shut down a shale gas protest in New Brunswick on Thursday found bombs containing shrapnel, firearms with a large amount of ammunition, knives and bear spray among the protesters, a top RCMP official says.
“The weapons and explosives we seized show that this was no longer a peaceful protest and there was a serious threat to public safety,” Assistant commissioner Roger Brown said on Friday.
Brown says the Mounties were concerned lives could be in danger if they had not responded Thursday at the site near Rexton.

[undercoverbrother]

The land in question is "unceded". Which, from the perspective of the people living on it means it was never controlled by Canada. The fact Canada is now aserting rights over the natural resources on that land is, to them, absurd.


This is an honest question. The land that is disputed, did it have services and if so who paid for those services? Was the land bare ass Canada with no development?

[19Yzerman19]

So if you consider yourself a sovereign community, and the police from a neighbouring country show up at your border, in military fatigues, and guns drawn, you just let them walk right in and do as they please?
This is a pretty stupid analogy, man. Even if you consider Aboriginal lands to be sovereign, there is no dispute about the RCMP's jurisdiction to enforce an injunction ordered by the Court of Queen's Bench to clear a highway. I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find band leaders who would suggest otherwise.

The situation just isn't analogous to, well, anything except the interaction between an aboriginal population of a country and that country's government.

[blankall]

This is an honest question. The land that is disputed, did it have services and if so who paid for those services? Was the land bare ass Canada with no development?

Don't you think you should also put this in the context of our colonization of the land. It sounds as though your arguing for some net historical benefit to the aboriginal population.

Basically, what you're saying is that we spent hundreds of years horribly abusing people and then isolating them onto small patches. Then we gave them some roads, therefore, we can take all the resources from the small patches.

[rubecube]

This is a pretty stupid analogy, man. Even if you consider Aboriginal lands to be sovereign, there is no dispute about the RCMP's jurisdiction to enforce an injunction ordered by the Court of Queen's Bench to clear a highway.

Says who? If this is a highway running through native land, many of them would argue that RCMP have no jurisdiction and that they don't recognize the QB's injunction.

[rubecube]

I can't believe they believe they would be better if suddenly they were free and clear their own nations.


Actually many of them do. Their are a lot of problems that persist among the First Nations population that remain as a result of colonialism. I'm not saying every band would be better off on their own, but there are a lot of younger leaders coming up through the ranks of many bands who are trying to tackle some of the internal issues.

[undercoverbrother]

Don't you think you should also put this in the context of our colonization of the land. It sounds as though your arguing for some net historical benefit to the aboriginal population.

Basically, what you're saying is that we spent hundreds of years horribly abusing people and then isolating them onto small patches. Then we gave them some roads, therefore, we can take all the resources from the small patches.

Nope if that is how it read, then my post was poorly worded.

I wonder at what point do we stop "paying" for the sins of our fathers. There are other countries in the world with much worse historical abuses of the aboriginal population(s) but those countries are moving forwards. While not a great example, South Africa pops to mind.


In the context of this thread, the blockade was illegal (at least that is what I have read). The Courts had made a decision on the matter and it was all but ignored by the tribe and other protestors. (please correct my if I am wrong with my very basic fact picture).

I don't believe that native peoples have a right to violent protest because of the historical injustice which was pressed upon their people.

[corporatejay]

Says who? If this is a highway running through native land, many of them would argue that RCMP have no jurisdiction and that they don't recognize the QB's injunction.

The Court. You do realize that Natives don't operate outside of the Canadian legal system, but within it. Natives rights to land are a type of property right within our legal framework.

Court says GTFO, you GTFO.

[undercoverbrother]

Actually many of them do. Their are a lot of problems that persist among the First Nations population that remain as a result of colonialism. I'm not saying every band would be better off on their own, but there are a lot of younger leaders coming up through the ranks of many bands who are trying to tackle some of the internal issues.


Agreed, there are some leaders that are making a positive change. IIRC there is one in the interior of BC which has turned his band into a local economic poweshouse. But, and I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong, he has taken some flack for move away from the "woa is me" appoach to native progress. I believe he has taken flack for hiring whites when there are band members that don't have jobs, but his response is they don't have jobs because they are dead beats (paraphrase). I believe this approach, this looking forward and taking the postive out of their position is the better approach than saying "you dicked us 250 years ago and we will never get over it".

[undercoverbrother]

Says who? If this is a highway running through native land, many of them would argue that RCMP have no jurisdiction and that they don't recognize the QB's injunction.

So why do they allow the RCMP to police their lands if they don't believe in the RCMP jurisdiction.

It sometimes seems the natives are willing to accept certain rules if they are in their favour (I didn't like typing that).

[blankall]

Nope if that is how it read, then my post was poorly worded.

I wonder at what point do we stop "paying" for the sins of our fathers. There are other countries in the world with much worse historical abuses of the aboriginal population(s) but those countries are moving forwards. While not a great example, South Africa pops to mind.


In the context of this thread, the blockade was illegal (at least that is what I have read). The Courts had made a decision on the matter and it was all but ignored by the tribe and other protestors. (please correct my if I am wrong with my very basic fact picture).

I don't believe that native peoples have a right to violent protest because of the historical injustice which was pressed upon their people.

According to this, aboriginal people own .2% of the land in Canada:

http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100034846/1100100034847#THE_INVENTORY4

Most of taht land is Northern wasteland. Now that they've discovered resources on that land the Canadian government is going to plunder more. You also talk about the abuse like its ancient history. Residential schools ran until 1996.

It becomes an issue of taking a stand at some point. And yes, that stand is going to involve illegal activity. The simple fact of the matter is the present legal framework was forced on them. Personally, I would have preferred it if they had not destroyed property, but I'm not in their shoes either.

[19Yzerman19]

Says who? If this is a highway running through native land, many of them would argue that RCMP have no jurisdiction and that they don't recognize the QB's injunction.
Yeah... see, I don't believe that one. It's a pretty radical individual who blankly refuses to recognize the jurisdiction of a Canadian superior Court. The vast majority of First Nations people live in the real world, and realize that while they may be treated differently under the law having access to special status and constitutional protections that other Canadians don't, they're still, you know, required to obey the law, as it applies to them.

Seriously I would like you to provide me with a few mainstream examples of first nations leaders in this country who support that perspective.

[undercoverbrother]

According to this, aboriginal people own .2% of the land in Canada:

http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100034846/1100100034847#THE_INVENTORY4

Most of taht land is Northern wasteland. Now that they've discovered resources on that land the Canadian government is going to plunder more. You also talk about the abuse like its ancient history. Residential schools ran until 1996.


And Mandela was in prison till what 95/96? He was willing to move forward.

I want to be clear, I don't think the native peoples have had an easy run of it, not at all, but I do think that looking at the past is going to help heal. I also, believe there have been appologies and compensation packages made by gov't(s). (I realize that this is easy for me to write, I am white).


It becomes an issue of taking a stand at some point. And yes, that stand is going to involve illegal activity. The simple fact of the matter is the present legal framework was forced on them. Personally, I would have preferred it if they had not destroyed property, but I'm not in their shoes either

I still don't believe they have a right to violence.

[blankall]

And Mandela was in prison till what 95/96? He was willing to move forward.

I want to be clear, I don't think the native peoples have had an easy run of it, not at all, but I do think that looking at the past is going to help heal. I also, believe there have been appologies and compensation packages made by gov't(s). (I realize that this is easy for me to write, I am white).


Totally different situations. Mandela was made President of South Africa in 1994. If, isntead of making a black man President, they had continued to isolate blacks on small patches of land and then proceeded to enter those small patches to plunder for resources, Mandela's work wouldn't have been done. Conversely, if an aboriginal chief was Prime Minister of Canada, we'd have a different result.

[rubecube]

The Court. You do realize that Natives don't operate outside of the Canadian legal system, but within it. Natives rights to land are a type of property right within our legal framework.

Court says GTFO, you GTFO.

Obviously they operate within it, but I think the point is they don't believe they should have to and this is a form of resistance.

[rubecube]

Yeah... see, I don't believe that one. It's a pretty radical individual who blankly refuses to recognize the jurisdiction of a Canadian superior Court. The vast majority of First Nations people live in the real world, and realize that while they may be treated differently under the law having access to special status and constitutional protections that other Canadians don't, they're still, you know, required to obey the law, as it applies to them.

Seriously I would like you to provide me with a few mainstream examples of first nations leaders in this country who support that perspective.

http://www.chiefs-of-ontario.org/faq

Our right to self-determination means we have jurisdiction (the right, power and authority) to administer and operate our own political, legal, economic, social and cultural systems.

[blankall]

I still don't believe they have a right to violence.

I agree that they went to far with burning the cars. That being said, they weren't killing children either. Considering we've seen cop cars burnt in recent riots in Toronto and Vancouver, it's hardly just Aboriginal people who are committing these acts. What's happening to the Aboriginal people is also a lot more important and emotional than having your physically weak hockey team lose a Stanley Cup final.

Once again, I would try and see things from their persepctive. This is unceeded land. The government sent in hundreds of armed men to support an oil copanies right to mine. Yes they had a court injunction, but it was from a court that the aboriginal people never consented to jurisdiction under (at least not without severe duress).

[19Yzerman19]

http://www.chiefs-of-ontario.org/faq
The passage you have quoted has an entirely different meaning than what you are suggesting. I can guarantee you that the chiefs of Ontario would not subscribe to treating the mounties like an invading police force for attempting to enforce an injunction. Typically, bands will be participants in the legal process, and challenge decisions they disagree with by filing an appeal. They will attempt to influence such decisions either by directly participating in the hearing or obtaining intervenor status. I am aware of no first nations leader of any repute who would sanction the kinds of tactics (setting fire to police cars, brandishing guns, building pipe bombs, etc.) we see here.

Either way though you'd be right if you were to accuse me of operating under a world view based on the premise that Canadian First Nations are part of Canada and subject to Canadian law. If your perspective differs I don't see how we can have a meaningful discussion because I disagree with the foundation of your philosophy. Conversely, because of the foundation of mine, there is simply no basis upon which these actions are defensible.

[Clever_Iggy]

Obviously they operate within it, but I think the point is they don't believe they should have to and this is a form of resistance.

Sounds like Freeman on the Land logic. Picking and choosing what laws they want to abide by.

[blankall]

Sounds like Freeman on the Land logic. Picking and choosing what laws they want to abide by.

I'm sure their ideal choice was to be colonized....

And yes Aboriginal people in Canada have special status. They have their own societies that existed prior to Canada. The Federal government has a duty to protect those societies.

[sureLoss]

Protestors are now seizing the media's vehicles that are covering them:

Brett Ruskin ‏@Brett_Global (https://twitter.com/Brett_Global) 1h (https://twitter.com/Brett_Global/status/391581942266609664) BREAKING: Global NB reporter @01LBrown (https://twitter.com/01LBrown) says #Rexton (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Rexton&src=hash) protesters have seized her vehicle and camera equipment.


Laura Brown ‏@01LBrown (https://twitter.com/01LBrown) 1h (https://twitter.com/01LBrown/status/391580116712947712) Just told to get out of my car, that it was seized. Warriors angry, aggressive and scary. @Global_NB (https://twitter.com/Global_NB)


Laura Brown ‏@01LBrown (https://twitter.com/01LBrown) 1h (https://twitter.com/01LBrown/status/391581502229995520)
My car has been seized by "warriors", along with the CTV sat truck. We're now with a Sun News reporter going to #RCMP (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23RCMP&src=hash) @Global_NB (https://twitter.com/Global_NB)


Laura Brown ‏@01LBrown (https://twitter.com/01LBrown) 1h (https://twitter.com/01LBrown/status/391581842157371392)
I asked to take my camera- they said its seized with the car. @Global_NB (https://twitter.com/Global_NB) #nb (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23nb&src=hash)


Laura Brown ‏@01LBrown (https://twitter.com/01LBrown) 58m (https://twitter.com/01LBrown/status/391582366113992704)
We're waiting for the #rcmp (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23rcmp&src=hash) now. "I've never been kicked out of my truck before" CTV employee. @Global_NB (https://twitter.com/Global_NB)

[CaptainCrunch]

Calling these people warriors is a joke.

If they want to burn police cars, seize vehicles and physically threaten people then start the pepper spray express.

[kirant]

Protestors are now seizing the media's vehicles that are covering them:
Now I'm curious: Did any of them think of the publicity that this would get? You need to get public support on your side and evicting people from their vehicles and taking their equipment, even if everybody hates the media, is about the dumbest thing you could do. Besides torching them.

[moon]

Now I'm curious: Did any of them think

Considering their actions and the actions of their "brothers" in similarly stupid "protests" I think we can end the sentence there and just say no.

[rubecube]

Considering their actions and the actions of their "brothers" in similarly stupid "protests" I think we can end the sentence there and just say no.

What do you mean by brothers, moon?

[moon]

What do you mean by brothers, moon?

I mean other groups like this that have used violent protest against groups like the RCMP trying to enforce the law.

I used brothers because there could be groups outside of Natives that have taken similar actions and I don't want to paint it as a solely native issue. The use of the word brother in quotation marks is because I see a lot of talk about solidarity with their "brothers in NB" when reading/hearing about this issue from supporters of the "protestors."

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Strangely enough, this story isn't getting much coverage here in Cali, so I just had to do a catch up just now.

Firstly, pure idiocy to attack the media who is a neutral observer in all this and is likely to be more on the side of the natives than not...UNLESS of course they are being violent #######s and attacking RCMP officers without provocation.

As well, I wanted to respond to someone who mentioned that there is a possibility of being a provocateur...ridiculous. First of all the incidents were within a local provincial police force and not the national force, with a larger amount of local politics at play. Plus, the Quebecois have had their fair share of corruption and scandals within their politics for quite some time now. The RCMP don't give a crap about politics from what I know about them. The RCMP are some of the most highly regarded national police forces in the world. Their internal standards are very, very high, and they only chose the highest quality individuals to even begin training. One of my very good friends is an RCMP officer and from what he has told me regarding the culture of the force they sound like the most dependable and honourable of people available in our society. We should consider ourselves extremely lucky that the RCMP are who they are and not some haphazard corrupt group trying to cut corners and use violence to get a quick resolution to events like this one.

I am disgusted with the protestors for attacking these honourable peacekeepers, and quite frankly I don't care if they might be in the right on this issue, they have lost all credibility with me.

[icecube]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/rcmp-bombed-oil-site-in-dirty-tricks-campaign-1.188599






FROM THE ARTICLE...



The Mounties bombed an oil installation as part of a dirty tricks campaign in their investigation into sabotage in the Alberta's oil patch.
The revelation came at the bail hearing Thursday of two farmers who the Crown says have turned their complaints that oil industry pollution is making their families ill into acts of vandalism and mischief.
Their lawyer produced evidence that the RCMP bombed a wellsite and that they did it with the full support of the energy company that owned it. The Crown admits the allegations are true.

[spetch]

The Mounties bombed an oil installation as part of a dirty tricks campaign in their investigation into sabotage in the Alberta's oil patch.
The revelation came at the bail hearing Thursday of two farmers who the Crown says have turned their complaints that oil industry pollution is making their families ill into acts of vandalism and mischief.
Their lawyer produced evidence that the RCMP bombed a wellsite and that they did it with the full support of the energy company that owned it. The Crown admits the allegations are true.

That explains everything, I knew Ludwig was still alive!!

[Traditional_Ale]

As well, I wanted to respond to someone who mentioned that there is a possibility of being a provocateur...ridiculous. First of all the incidents were within a local provincial police force and not the national force, with a larger amount of local politics at play. Plus, the Quebecois have had their fair share of corruption and scandals within their politics for quite some time now. The RCMP don't give a crap about politics from what I know about them. The RCMP are some of the most highly regarded national police forces in the world. Their internal standards are very, very high, and they only chose the highest quality individuals to even begin training. One of my very good friends is an RCMP officer and from what he has told me regarding the culture of the force they sound like the most dependable and honourable of people available in our society. We should consider ourselves extremely lucky that the RCMP are who they are and not some haphazard corrupt group trying to cut corners and use violence to get a quick resolution to events like this one.


Now THAT, is some awesome satire!

[Tinordi]

Lots of a-holes who know jack about the history of aboriginal peoples or the context of these protests in this thread. I honestly love the denunciation of violence and the complete dismissal of 200 years of state sanctioned violence which went a few degrees further than some torched cruisers. Keep it up rednecks.

[CaptainCrunch]

At this point in time, I'm proud to be labeled a redneck by Tinordi. That's completely made my day.

[corporatejay]

Lots of a-holes who know jack about the history of aboriginal peoples or the context of these protests in this thread. I honestly live the denunciation off violence and the complete dismissal of 200 years of state sanctioned violence which went a few degrees further than some torched cruisers. Keep it up rednecks.

You are an unbelievable Dbag.

[Tinordi]

I also take it that if a fracking company thought there was gas beneath your backyard and they "consulted" with you by telling you they were going to drill a well in your back yard you'd just take it lying down?

[FLAMESRULE]

Not making news here, but there are ~30 FN members protesting at our road near Slave Lake. We don't use ANY fraccing in our production methods as a company (heavy oil), and yet there they are.

Letting our trucks and others pass through, but still a PITA.

[transplant99]

lots of a-holes who know jack about the history of aboriginal peoples or the context of these protests in this thread. I honestly live the denunciation off violence and the complete dismissal of 200 years of state sanctioned violence which went a few degrees further than some torched cruisers. Keep it up rednecks.



hahahaha

[rubecube]

As well, I wanted to respond to someone who mentioned that there is a possibility of being a provocateur...ridiculous. First of all the incidents were within a local provincial police force and not the national force, with a larger amount of local politics at play. Plus, the Quebecois have had their fair share of corruption and scandals within their politics for quite some time now. The RCMP don't give a crap about politics from what I know about them. The RCMP are some of the most highly regarded national police forces in the world. Their internal standards are very, very high, and they only chose the highest quality individuals to even begin training. One of my very good friends is an RCMP officer and from what he has told me regarding the culture of the force they sound like the most dependable and honourable of people available in our society. We should consider ourselves extremely lucky that the RCMP are who they are and not some haphazard corrupt group trying to cut corners and use violence to get a quick resolution to events like this one.


Thanks for the laughs. The RCMP have a proud history of acting like dirtbags and thugs.

[Resolute 14]

Lol. That pack of cowards and thugs are now threatening media covering their thuggery. Guess they don't want their pitiful actions covered on the six o'clock news.

[puckluck2]

I also take it that if a fracking company thought there was gas beneath your backyard and they "consulted" with you by telling you they were going to drill a well in your back yard you'd just take it lying down?

Correct me if I am wrong but I have always thought that you don't own the land under your property or the air space over your property.

Is this different for aboriginals?

[19Yzerman19]

^It may well be and arguably should be. Rubecube was making the point earlier (well, in broader fashion) that attempting to fit aboriginal title into the rubric of Western property law based on a fee simple concept doesn't necessarily work. The whole point is that those concepts don't apply to first nations, whose interaction with land is historically totally different from the European notion of ownership for the purposes of cultivation.
Lots of a-holes who know jack about the history of aboriginal peoples or the context of these protests in this thread. I honestly love the denunciation of violence and the complete dismissal of 200 years of state sanctioned violence which went a few degrees further than some torched cruisers. Keep it up rednecks.
This is a joke, right? Or does denouncing present violence somehow tacitly condone previous violence suffered by the ancestors of those committing the present violence?

http://rosssimmonds.com/WP/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/jackie-chan.jpg

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Thanks for the laughs. The RCMP have a proud history of acting like dirtbags and thugs.

I stand by what I said. I should also add that I have never had any extra fondness for military or police powers and would consider myself a pacifist, so if there was something to be concerned about with the RCMP I wouldn't be flying the flag so adamantly. I think you need your comment to be true to justify your position, whether it is actually true or not.

[Minnie]

Lots of a-holes who know jack about the history of aboriginal peoples or the context of these protests in this thread. I honestly love the denunciation of violence and the complete dismissal of 200 years of state sanctioned violence which went a few degrees further than some torched cruisers. Keep it up rednecks.

Oh give me a break. This is like a bunch of toddlers bleating "but he did it firrrrrrrrst!" Grow up. Seriously.

[icecube]

Tweet from journalist Laura Brown, who had her vehicle and equipment seized (Which has now been returned)...

@01LBrown "Making a statement to be clear, it was only about 5 people- They should not blanket the rest of those inv. w/ shale gas movement"

The NB chiefs have made a statement condemning any violent acts. Despite the rhetoric around here, this has overwhelmingly been a peaceful protest.

The RCMP who were pepper spraying women and elders in the face should be held accountable for helping ignite the violence in the first place.

[Flash Walken]

Looks like truth and reconciliation does not apply to mineral wealth.

[Rerun]

Lol. That pack of cowards and thugs are now threatening media covering their thuggery. Guess they don't want their pitiful actions covered on the six o'clock news.

This I don't understand. I thought the whole point of the protests was to get media coverage so they could air their grievances in public. Why attack reporters? What good can come of this?

[Vulcan]

This I don't understand. I thought the whole point of the protests was to get media coverage so they could air their grievances in public. Why attack reporters? What good can come of this?

Probably some young hot heads.

[rubecube]

I stand by what I said. I should also add that I have never had any extra fondness for military or police powers and would consider myself a pacifist, so if there was something to be concerned about with the RCMP I wouldn't be flying the flag so adamantly. I think you need your comment to be true to justify your position, whether it is actually true or not.

I have family who are officers in the RCMP and some of the stories I've heard are quite frankly disgusting.

[rubecube]

Oh give me a break. This is like a bunch of toddlers bleating "but he did it firrrrrrrrst!" Grow up. Seriously.

Finally, someone has the guts to call it like it is. A concise and objective breakdown of 250 years of oppression and institutionalized violence. Kudos.

[Minnie]

You're welcome. :)

[Resolute 14]

This I don't understand. I thought the whole point of the protests was to get media coverage so they could air their grievances in public. Why attack reporters? What good can come of this?

Because media videotaping thugs torching things tends to lead to very easy convictions in court.

We're talking about people who are the equivalent of the black block when it comes to G7 protests. There are those who want to send a message via the protest, and there are those who simply want to burn things. It is the latter group that doesn't want the media around.

[undercoverbrother]

Totally different situations. Mandela was made President of South Africa in 1994. If, isntead of making a black man President, they had continued to isolate blacks on small patches of land and then proceeded to enter those small patches to plunder for resources, Mandela's work wouldn't have been done. Conversely, if an aboriginal chief was Prime Minister of Canada, we'd have a different result.

Mandela is an example of the power of reconciliation and forgiveness.

I agree that they went to far with burning the cars. That being said, they weren't killing children either. Considering we've seen cop cars burnt in recent riots in Toronto and Vancouver, it's hardly just Aboriginal people who are committing these acts. What's happening to the Aboriginal people is also a lot more important and emotional than having your physically weak hockey team lose a Stanley Cup final.

Once again, I would try and see things from their persepctive. This is unceeded land. The government sent in hundreds of armed men to support an oil copanies right to mine. Yes they had a court injunction, but it was from a court that the aboriginal people never consented to jurisdiction under (at least not without severe duress).

To be clear I don't think anyone, white, blacks, reds, pinks, purples, browns, anyone should be resorting to violence.

[chemgear]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/10/21/new-brunswick-shale-gas-fight-will-continue-chief-vows-criticizing-rcmp-for-horrendous-handling-of-opposition/

The people of the Elsipogtog First Nation will continue their fight against shale gas exploration in New Brunswick, the community’s chief said Monday as he criticized the RCMP for the way it handled a protest last week that spiralled out of control.

“What the RCMP put our people through was almost horrendous, to say the least,” Aaron Sock told a news conference.

Elsipogtog member Amy Sock lifted her arms to show bruises on her biceps that she says she received when she was arrested at the protest site.

Assistant commissioner Roger Brown, the RCMP’s commanding officer in the province, has defended the police response, saying officers seized firearms and improvised explosive devices that were a threat to public safety.