Lee Stempniak

[StrykerSteve]

Oft-injured, much maligned, he was one of the few guys on the Flames roster last year that could pull off goals like these.

_G4R2f1xeKw

kyRn5MLZkds

Consensus around here seemed to be that he shouldn't have been re-signed in the offseason, but I gotta say, I'm excited to see what he can bring to the table this year, especially considering the talent he'll be playing with.

Go Stemper!

[OzSome]

No doubt the guy can score. The only problem is doing it consistently. We cannot afford to have someone scores goal every 5 or more games. He is a streaky guy. When the guy is on, he can score bunches but when he's not..you have to wait for i don't know how long.

[vektor]

I think the problem is all he has is speed and scoring ability and our previous coach had a knack for trying to jam square pegs into round holes. I'm glad we signed him, the more speed and talent and the less Comeau's the better. He's a blank slate right now, decent contract with a new coach.

Hopefully the new coach doesn't put him in a checking role and puts him with a setup guy that will get him the puck as he's flying towards the net when he's at his best. People complaining about his lack of consistency need to realize Sutter had no idea what he was doing with Stempniak. I hope to see a lot of Cervenka to Hudler to Stempniak type goals next season, 20+ would be great. He's plenty capable of it, just need a coach that can formulate gameplans around the strength of the players.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

No doubt the guy can score. The only problem is doing it consistently. We cannot afford to have someone scores goal every 5 or more games. He is a streaky guy. When the guy is on, he can score bunches but when he's not..you have to wait for i don't know how long.


I'm not doubting that he's streaky but has anyone actually proved it?

Like say a breakdown of his goals during the last 3 seasons? Does he actually score in bunches? Even if he does, what is "normal" scoring rate of an NHLer of his caliber (or any caliber)?

[Hockey_Ninja]

In before ricardodw.

[GreenLantern]

Lots of skill, just very streaky.

If the guy could put it together for an entire season he is in the 50-60 point range..

[StrykerSteve]

Just looked up his career stats, and last year was the first time he hasn't played at least 75 games during an NHL season.

So here's hoping he gets another full, injury-free year under his belt with the Flames.

Since joining the league...

05/06 - 22 goals in 83 games
06/07 - 27 goals in 82 games
07/08 - 13 goals in 80 games
08/09 - 14 goals in 75 games
09/10 - 28 goals in 80 games
10/11 - 19 goals in 82 games
11/12 - 14 goals in 61 games

[Coach]

I love the streaky scorer argument. There are many players that fall under this category (Stempniak, Glencross, Bourque) and people always make a big problem out of it. The fact is, if any one of these guys were consistent they would be superstars. If any player was consistent they would be superstars. Isn't that kind of the criteria?

[Huntingwhale]

I hope he regains his 25+ goal form that he showed earlier in his career. Imagine how useful that would be.

[Enoch Root]

No doubt the guy can score. The only problem is doing it consistently. We cannot afford to have someone scores goal every 5 or more games. He is a streaky guy. When the guy is on, he can score bunches but when he's not..you have to wait for i don't know how long.
Show me a 20 goal scorer who isn't streaky.

It is true for pretty much every player who ever lived - goal scoring is about confidence, and confidence ebbs and flows. Sometimes you get a good bounce here and there, and that enhances confidence which in turn leads to better play. Sometimes, you don't get the bounces and that in turn leads to frustration.

A 20 goal scorer will score, on average, every 4th game. Factor in multi-goal games, and you're talking about every 5th game, give or take. Even ignoring confidence and "streakiness", you're still looking - by simple statistical distribution - at periods of 10 and more games that are going to be goal-less.

[TurnedTheCorner]

I have low expectations. I hope he manages 15 goals. Time will tell.

[clancy]

I think the problem is all he has is speed and scoring ability and our previous coach had a knack for trying to jam square pegs into round holes. I'm glad we signed him, the more speed and talent and the less Comeau's the better. He's a blank slate right now, decent contract with a new coach.

Hopefully the new coach doesn't put him in a checking role and puts him with a setup guy that will get him the puck as he's flying towards the net when he's at his best. People complaining about his lack of consistency need to realize Sutter had no idea what he was doing with Stempniak. I hope to see a lot of Cervenka to Hudler to Stempniak type goals next season, 20+ would be great. He's plenty capable of it, just need a coach that can formulate gameplans around the strength of the players.\
Vector, so where do you see him slotting in. Cervenka, Hudler should be on the top 2 lines. I cant see Stempniak playing a top 6 role.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

I wanted Feaster to re-sign Stempniak. It's Comeau I didn't want him to re-sign.

As for expectations, I would hope he can manage 20 goals now that he'll probably be playing with a guy like Baertschi or Glencross on the left side.

[Bourque's Twin]

I could see a 3rd line of Bartschi - Stajan - Stempniak being pretty good.

I honestly think Stajan would put up better numbers than Backlund. I think Backlund is the odd man out this year. It kills me to say it and it's off-topic.

Stempniak would be a good veteran for Bartschi to play with if Bartschi couldn't crack the first 2 lines. He's played 456 NHL games and is a proven 20-goal scorer.

[Parallex]

goal scoring is about confidence, and confidence ebbs and flows.

No, goal scoring is about skill and competancy... confidence is an effect that flows from that not the other way around. You can believe in yourself as highly as you want it's not going to give you the ability to do something that you didn't otherwise possess the talent for.

That's not to say that streakiness doesn't exist, it does, but I think it has very little to do with ones level of self-esteem.

As for Stempniak... I'm glad he's back I think he'll slot in alongside Backlund and Glencross to form one of the best "third" lines in the NHL.

[Enoch Root]

No, goal scoring is about skill and competancy... confidence is an effect that flows from that not the other way around. You can believe in yourself as highly as you want it's not going to give you the ability to do something that you didn't otherwise possess the talent for.

Skill and competency are an obvious necessity and prior given to getting here. But they are also a relative constant - we know going in to each game what any player's skill set is. What changes from day to day is confidence (along with health, etc).

You are making it sound like skill and competency result in streakinees, as in a person is competent for 10 games and then become incompetent for a stretch. No. They have a prior skillset, but confidence fluctuates.

[Stay Golden]

I wasn't a big fan of Stempniaks last season, no doubt he has skill, far to inconsistant from game to game and didn't get involved enough during the many games. There was several nights you had to check and see if he actually on the ice.
Stempniak in 2012-13 pick your game up!

[Heavy Jack]

I could see a 3rd line of Bartschi - Stajan - Stempniak being pretty good.

I honestly think Stajan would put up better numbers than Backlund. I think Backlund is the odd man out this year. It kills me to say it and it's off-topic.

Stempniak would be a good veteran for Bartschi to play with if Bartschi couldn't crack the first 2 lines. He's played 456 NHL games and is a proven 20-goal scorer.

Should I still be shocked so many posters seem to have given up on Backlund?

Considering Backs just signed a discount-ish signing or a 'prove it' contract if you will and also considering he is 4 years younger with a lot more potential than Stajan I think the 3rd line centre spot is Backs to lose personally.

If we handle Backs correctly we good have a legit shut-down centre on hands; far too early right now to call him the odd man out this year.

[Karl]

Should I still be shocked so many posters seem to have given up on Backlund?

Considering Backs just signed a discount-ish signing or a 'prove it' contract if you will and also considering he is 4 years younger with a lot more potential than Stajan. I think the 3rd line centre spot is Backs to lose personally.

If we handle Backs correctly we good have a legit shut-down centre on hands; far too early right now to call him the odd man out this year.

Backlund (March, 17, 1989) is close to 6 years younger (okay closer to 5 and a half) than Stajan (December 19, 1983).

And yes, it is too early to call Backlund the odd man out. It's also too early to call lots of guys the odd man out, and that includes Stajan.

[ricardodw]

If Stempniak gets 20 goals playing on the third line--- 12:00 / game the Flames will lead the league in goal scoring. .... by a lot.

If somehow he ends up with top-6 ice time ................ the team will have taken a step back despite of adding Cammelleri, Hudler, Cervenka and Baertschi to replace Bourque, Jokinen and Stempniak in the top 6.

There are a lot of lineups showing Glencross getting dropped to the 3rd line??

Glencross >>>>> Stempniak

When Glencross floats we jump all over him...... When Stempniak floats nobody notices or comments.... the Glencross expections are so very much higher.

If Baertschi or Cervenka has the same season that Stempniak had in 2011-12 there will be a lot of disappointed Flames fans.

[the2bears]

There is very little consensus here on most if not all players' value.

[kirant]

When Glencross floats we jump all over him...... When Stempniak floats nobody notices or comments.... the Glencross expections are so very much higher.

If Baertschi or Cervenka has the same season that Stempniak had in 2011-12 there will be a lot of disappointed Flames fans.
I think we just forget about Stempniak. I honestly remember a few times after hearing him score thinking "...Oh, that's right! We have him!". Glencross is a recognizable player on the Flames, while Stempniak doesn't exactly have a unique feel to him and often just feels like your average NHLer and is forgotten if he isn't doing much.

I'd honestly be happy though if Baertschi got 38 points over 82 games (prorated). Actually, that's kind of my expectation (30-40 points on the 3rd line). I'd be pleasantly surprised with Cervenka if he did the same (though that's just me not buying into him being as good as he's sold and him likely going to struggle with the smaller ice and more physical game)

[Parallex]

You are making it sound like skill and competency result in streakinees, as in a person is competent for 10 games and then become incompetent for a stretch. No. They have a prior skillset, but confidence fluctuates.

Lot's of things contribute to streakiness I just don't think that any of them are related to "confidence". Does confidence fluctuate? Yes it does... but I don't think it causes one to score more or score less, I think it's an effect of result not a cause of result (I think you feel confident because you score goals not that you score goals because you are confident). You can't just say "confidence flucuates and then automatically assign it value as the determinator of goal scoring. Lot's of things flucuate... Random variance (A.K.A. Luck), health, fatigue, schedule variation, qualcomp, qualteam, icetime, special team play... all of these things flucuate (some more then others) on a game-by-game basis.

Really the "streaky" player is the norm... it's the consistent player that's the exception on a game by game basis.

There are a lot of lineups showing Glencross getting dropped to the 3rd line??

Glencross >>>>> Stempniak

I think it's less that Glencross is "dropping" to the third line and more that Baertschi is starting on the second line. Truthfully I imagine the Flames having essually two "second" lines. They'll each get about the same amount of icetime but one will get more defensive responsibility (tougher starts and draws, PK special team play) while the other will get more offensive responsibility (easier draws and O-zone starts, PP special team play).

[Enoch Root]

Lot's of things contribute to streakiness I just don't think that any of them are related to "confidence". Does confidence fluctuate? Yes it does... but I don't think it causes one to score more or score less, I think it's an effect of result not a cause of result (I think you feel confident because you score goals not that you score goals because you are confident). You can't just say "confidence flucuates and then automatically assign it value as the determinator of goal scoring. Lot's of things flucuate... Random variance (A.K.A. Luck), health, fatigue, schedule variation, qualcomp, qualteam, icetime, special team play... all of these things flucuate (some more then others) on a game-by-game basis.

Really the "streaky" player is the norm... it's the consistent player that's the exception on a game by game basis.
Which was exactly my point as well.

[doctajones428]

Backlund to Baertschi to Stempniak... He scooores! Some kinda goal!

Going to be hearing that a bunch. If only we still had Loubardias making the calls...

[OzSome]

I don't mind seeing Glencross or Stempniak on the 3rd line so we can have balance offense. I am definitely not giving up on Backlund. He's still young and he hasn't really played a full season yet due to injuries and being healthy scratch. Backlund just need the confidence and i am sure he will develop as a good player. Problem is so many people here in CP expected him to be the #1 centre a few season ago but when he didn't produce right away, pretty much everyone just wanted to dump him. I am pretty sure Hartley will try him on top 6, 2nd line centre or left wing. As for Comeau, he is just taking Aliu's spot here. I would have like to see the Aliu-Jones-?? on the 4th line.

[Alberta_Beef]

I think Stempniak gets a bit of a bad rep since he never had a chance for one of his hot streaks last season. It looked like he was just heating up when he was injured.

What I like about it is by all accounts the guys in the room like him, he is not a liability when not on his game and when he gets hot he can be a game changer.

People don't like his inconsistencies, but I think that every 2nd/3rd liner will have inconsistencies, that is why they are 2nd/3rd liners and not on the 1st line.

If Stempy can provide 15-20 goals in a 3rd line capacity I will be pleased.

[ricardodw]

I think Stempniak gets a bit of a bad rep since he never had a chance for one of his hot streaks last season. It looked like he was just heating up when he was injured.

What I like about it is by all accounts the guys in the room like him, he is not a liability when not on his game and when he gets hot he can be a game changer.

People don't like his inconsistencies, but I think that every 2nd/3rd liner will have inconsistencies, that is why they are 2nd/3rd liners and not on the 1st line.

If Stempy can provide 15-20 goals in a 3rd line capacity I will be pleased.


How is he not a liability when he is not on his game? Is he a shut down guy? Inspire the team with his hitting? Drop his gloves when someone runs Kipper? Of course he is a liability when he is off.... he is a non-agressive skilled player..... if he is not scoring he is wasting ice time.


If he scores 15 goals from the 3rd line he will be tremendous.. Jarret Stoll best 3rd line player on the SC champs 6 goals 21 pts.

The whole Flames 3rd line (7-9 in toi) last year had 22 goals in all ... Comeau, Stajan, Kostopolus.

2 years ago Jackman was moved to 3rd line and had the best production in the NHL for guys under 12 minutes --- 10 goals

There is a reason that there is a focus on the top 6..... they score 80% of the goals. The bottom six check and uses up ice time while the top 2 lines rest.

[Psytic]

How is he not a liability when he is not on his game? Is he a shut down guy? Inspire the team with his hitting? Drop his gloves when someone runs Kipper? Of course he is a liability when he is off.... he is a non-agressive skilled player..... if he is not scoring he is wasting ice time.


If he scores 15 goals from the 3rd line he will be tremendous.. Jarret Stoll best 3rd line player on the SC champs 6 goals 21 pts.

The whole Flames 3rd line (7-9 in toi) last year had 22 goals in all ... Comeau, Stajan, Kostopolus.

2 years ago Jackman was moved to 3rd line and had the best production in the NHL for guys under 12 minutes --- 10 goals

There is a reason that there is a focus on the top 6..... they score 80% of the goals. The bottom six check and uses up ice time while the top 2 lines rest.

I just don't see Bart, Backlund and Stemps as being a traditional third line. They look more like a 2b line to me. I think this team is going to be playing river hockey just looking at the way the roster is built.

[Vulcan]

I just don't see Bart, Backlund and Stemps as being a traditional third line. They look more like a 2b line to me. I think this team is going to be playing river hockey just looking at the way the roster is built.

Yeah, I agree but if they put together a third line of Glencross, Comeau and whoever else they acquire or wins the battle for third line centre (Backlund or Stajan would be my guess), they would be a pretty good checking line. It might be a step back for Glencross and his stats but he's probably our best checker. Comeau can also fill this role with his speed and physical presence.

I just don't see a place for Stempniak unless as you say we play river hockey. Maybe he was signed because we didn't know we would be able to sign Hudler and now Feaster is maybe looking to move him.

It will be an interesting camp to see how our new coach fits these guys in.

[FlyingDonutz]

Yeah, I agree but if they put together a third line of Glencross, Comeau and whoever else they acquire or wins the battle for third line centre (Backlund or Stajan would be my guess), they would be a pretty good checking line. It might be a step back for Glencross and his stats but he's probably our best checker. Comeau can also fill this role with his speed and physical presence.

I just don't see a place for Stempniak unless as you say we play river hockey. Maybe he was signed because we didn't know we would be able to sign Hudler and now Feaster is maybe looking to move him.

It will be an interesting camp to see how our new coach fits these guys in.


Scoreface might be able to rack up a solid 70 point season if he pulls together has he did in his good part of last season.. he was one of our best players until that... *foul language* Game Misconduct

[BACKCHECK!!!]

This thread is missing "freakin" in the title.

[cowtown75]

If Stempniak gets 20 goals playing on the third line--- 12:00 / game the Flames will lead the league in goal scoring. .... by a lot.

If somehow he ends up with top-6 ice time ................ the team will have taken a step back despite of adding Cammelleri, Hudler, Cervenka and Baertschi to replace Bourque, Jokinen and Stempniak in the top 6.

There are a lot of lineups showing Glencross getting dropped to the 3rd line??

Glencross >>>>> Stempniak

When Glencross floats we jump all over him...... When Stempniak floats nobody notices or comments.... the Glencross expections are so very much higher.

If Baertschi or Cervenka has the same season that Stempniak had in 2011-12 there will be a lot of disappointed Flames fans.

The crazy part of this team to me is how many guys are capable of and have scored 20+ goals. Iginla, Cammy, Tanguay, Stempniak, Glencross, Comeau, Hudler- with the possiblility of two other guys in Sven and Cervenka being able to do that as well. With Hartley's new system, this could be a seriously high scoring season.

[cowtown75]

I don't mind seeing Glencross or Stempniak on the 3rd line so we can have balance offense. I am definitely not giving up on Backlund. He's still young and he hasn't really played a full season yet due to injuries and being healthy scratch. Backlund just need the confidence and i am sure he will develop as a good player. Problem is so many people here in CP expected him to be the #1 centre a few season ago but when he didn't produce right away, pretty much everyone just wanted to dump him. I am pretty sure Hartley will try him on top 6, 2nd line centre or left wing. As for Comeau, he is just taking Aliu's spot here. I would have like to see the Aliu-Jones-?? on the 4th line.

Aliu-Jones- Jackman.....punishing. I agree, I wish there was an open spot for Akim here. Feaster wants grit, well, we are sitting on it.

[Psytic]

Yeah, I agree but if they put together a third line of Glencross, Comeau and whoever else they acquire or wins the battle for third line centre (Backlund or Stajan would be my guess), they would be a pretty good checking line. It might be a step back for Glencross and his stats but he's probably our best checker. Comeau can also fill this role with his speed and physical presence.

I just don't see a place for Stempniak unless as you say we play river hockey. Maybe he was signed because we didn't know we would be able to sign Hudler and now Feaster is maybe looking to move him.

It will be an interesting camp to see how our new coach fits these guys in.

I prefer them to have it as 2b, it is better for Bart and Backlund's development I think. No one cares about Comeau and GlenX is a prideful guy I think he would rather put pucks in the net. He deserves the 2nd line now imo.

[bubbsy]

i don't understand the re-signing of stempniak at all.

they have said baertchi has a spot on the roster, and we all feel he should.

in the top 9 where is there space for stempniak??
LW
Tanguay
Cammalleri
Baertchi

RW
Iginla
Hudler
glencross (who can play either wing)

my pencilled in (guestimate) at the lineup is something along the lines of:
tanguay - backlund/cervanka - iginla
cammalleri - backlund/cervanka - hudler
baertchi - stajan - glencross
comeau - jones - jackman

comeau >> stempniak in a 4th line role.

so where does stempniak fit?

I would have preferred letting stempniak walk, and hoping bouma, nemisz, byron could step up during camp to fill the 13th forward role.

[Psytic]

i don't understand the re-signing of stempniak at all.

they have said baertchi has a spot on the roster, and we all feel he should.

in the top 9 where is there space for stempniak??
LW
Tanguay
Cammalleri
Baertchi

RW
Iginla
Hudler
glencross (who can play either wing)

my pencilled in (guestimate) at the lineup is something along the lines of:
tanguay - backlund/cervanka - iginla
cammalleri - backlund/cervanka - hudler
baertchi - stajan - glencross
comeau - jones - jackman

comeau >> stempniak in a 4th line role.

so where does stempniak fit?

I would have preferred letting stempniak walk, and hoping bouma, nemisz, byron could step up during camp to fill the 13th forward role.

They must have not known if they were going to get Hudler to sign I suspect.

[Husky]

They must have not known if they were going to get Hudler to sign I suspect.

More likely they plan at playing cammalleri at center regsrdless.

[FAN]

A 20 goal scorer will score, on average, every 4th game. Factor in multi-goal games, and you're talking about every 5th game, give or take. Even ignoring confidence and "streakiness", you're still looking - by simple statistical distribution - at periods of 10 and more games that are going to be goal-less.
The NHL regular season is essentially from October to May with a few games in April. A 20 goal scorer who isn't streaky will typically score at least 2 goals every month from October to May with some months scoring more than 2.

Stempniak is considered a streaky goal scorer because he goes on these long goal droughts. Stempniak is the type of player who would score 6+ one month and then none the next.

[ricardodw]

The NHL regular season is essentially from October to May with a few games in April. A 20 goal scorer who isn't streaky will typically score at least 2 goals every month from October to May with some months scoring more than 2.

Stempniak is considered a streaky goal scorer because he goes on these long goal droughts. Stempniak is the type of player who would score 6+ one month and then none the next.


Yes in March 2012 when the flames were in a heated battle for the playoffs and 2-3 extra goals would have gotten them in ..... ahead of LA

1 goal 1 assist in 8 games playing 16 Minutes / game.

In the march 2011 - 14 games with Phx 3 goals 1 assist. then in the playoffs 0 points in 4 games.

In march 2010 he was smoking hot ... 13 goals in 15 games!!!

Then he lead Phx into the playoffs 2 assists in 7 games -4.


last year he had 3 goals all year against teams that made the playoffs.

Glencross for comparison had 15 of his 26 goals against playoff teams.

Matt Stajan, playing on the 4th line.... only 8 goals all season got 4 against playoff teams.

Bourque , who all of CP can basically agree was a floater, got 8 out his 18 goals against playoff teams.

[Alberta_Beef]

The NHL regular season is essentially from October to May with a few games in April. A 20 goal scorer who isn't streaky will typically score at least 2 goals every month from October to May with some months scoring more than 2.

Stempniak is considered a streaky goal scorer because he goes on these long goal droughts. Stempniak is the type of player who would score 6+ one month and then none the next.The only month in which Stempiak never never scored a goal in the past 2 seasons where he played a game was February 2011

[StrykerSteve]

The only month in which Stempiak never never scored a goal in the past 2 seasons where he played a game was February 2011

Just a wild guess, is this a month when he was injured?

[Alberta_Beef]

Just a wild guess, is this a month when he was injured?that was 2012, he never played a game that month so I didn't feel it fair to include it.

[ricardodw]

The only month in which Stempiak never never scored a goal in the past 2 seasons where he played a game was February 2011


March 2012

8 GP 1 goal 1 assist -3 18 SOG 1 PPG 1 PPA 2 PIM 16:03 toi/gm

I know ....extrapulate it.... he might have got 2 goals if he played 16 games.

Once the pressure was off and the Flames were out of the play offs he padded his stats with a goal and assist in the 2 meaningless games in April.

[Alberta_Beef]

March 2012

8 GP 1 goal 1 assist -3 18 SOG 1 PPG 1 PPA 2 PIM 16:03 toi/gm

I know ....extrapulate it.... he might have got 2 goals if he played 16 games.

Once the pressure was off and the Flames were out of the play offs he padded his stats with a goal and assist in the 2 meaningless games in April.Your blind hate for players is nauseating.

You give no leeway or no consideration to factors outside of pure stats, like the fact that Stempniak had just returned from injury where he wasn't even able to skate for much of his time on IR.

You don't need to waste your time, or mine replying because I won't be able to read your posts anymore.

[Enoch Root]

The NHL regular season is essentially from October to May with a few games in April. A 20 goal scorer who isn't streaky will typically score at least 2 goals every month from October to May with some months scoring more than 2.

Stempniak is considered a streaky goal scorer because he goes on these long goal droughts. Stempniak is the type of player who would score 6+ one month and then none the next.
Any evidence to support this claim?

Any examples of a '20 goal scorer who isn't streaky'?

[Poe969]

Stemniak isn't a bad player. He, much like most of our team, just isn't good enough. For the past few years we've been a team full of 20 goal scoring 3rd line players that don't have enough tallent to get it done. Stempniak is just that. He's a guy who can score here or there and is an ok support guy. My biggest issue with having him on the team is that we have too many guys like that already. He's injured often, not clutch and has no real amazing qualities. He is a decent player, but we have a lot of decent players and not enough super star players and I think thats why so many people have issues with him being on the team.

[ricardodw]

Any examples of a '20 goal scorer who isn't streaky'?

Hagman was a far more established 20 goal scorer than Stempniak and he became non-streaky, in that he stop scoring at all and was consistently not scoring.


The same goes for Kotalik.

There is a very good evidence that Stempniak's streakiness has come to an end....

Take away his 14 goals in 18 games to start his time in Phoenix and Stempniak has not scored 20 goals in any season since 2006-07.

Phoenix figured out what his top end was and found him a poor value at 1.9M / year.

Now he is just top 6 filler... He is the kind of player that non-playoff teams have filling in their roster.


Does anyone every imagine him scoring 25-30 goals?

Which is more likely.... him popping in 14 goals in 18 games and scoring 25 over a season or him scoring 10-14 ?

Of the rest of the Flames top 6 - Iginla, Cammalleri, Hudler, Glencross are expected to score 25-30 based on last year. Tanguay may not but he is expected to put up 50-60 pts.

There will be injuries and disappointments but those are likely results and would not be considered surprises.

Who has a better chance of putting up 25 goals Stempniak, Baertschi, Cervenka or Comeau? Comeau had 24 just the season before last.

[clancy]

I agree. Vector was adamant that it was Sutters coaching and he should have been paired with offensive players, but it will likely be the same this year. He just doesnt fit in a top 6 role, and top 9 may be a stretch.

i don't understand the re-signing of stempniak at all.

they have said baertchi has a spot on the roster, and we all feel he should.

in the top 9 where is there space for stempniak??
LW
Tanguay
Cammalleri
Baertchi

RW
Iginla
Hudler
glencross (who can play either wing)

my pencilled in (guestimate) at the lineup is something along the lines of:
tanguay - backlund/cervanka - iginla
cammalleri - backlund/cervanka - hudler
baertchi - stajan - glencross
comeau - jones - jackman

comeau >> stempniak in a 4th line role.

so where does stempniak fit?

I would have preferred letting stempniak walk, and hoping bouma, nemisz, byron could step up during camp to fill the 13th forward role.

[OzSome]

i don't understand the re-signing of stempniak at all.


my pencilled in (guestimate) at the lineup is something along the lines of:
tanguay - backlund/cervanka - iginla
cammalleri - backlund/cervanka - hudler
baertchi - stajan - glencross
comeau - jones - jackman

comeau >> stempniak in a 4th line role.

so where does stempniak fit?

I would have preferred letting stempniak walk, and hoping bouma, nemisz, byron could step up during camp to fill the 13th forward role.

I would put the Tanguay-Cervanka-Iginla as the first line. skilled player and two players who can score.

2nd line: Baertchi-Cammy-Hudler - smallish forwards but will be a fast line.

3rd line: Stempniak-Backlund-Glencross - I think we can see Backlund's potential playing with these two. He can be a playmaker and Stemp and Glencross are capable goal scorers. Glencross is also willing to use his body.

4th line: Aliu/Bouma-Jones-Jackman --- i can see other team getting ticked off on this line. Something we've been lacking for a long time..the agitator. Imagine having the full line of agitators.

extra: Comeau & Bouma

I don't mind the re-signing of Stempniak. It is the re-signing of Blake Comeau that's bothering me. I know he signed for lesser money but if he can't produce and play stupid the way he played last season he was just taking spots that would have given to Bouma, Aliu, Byron or Nemisz.

[CsInMyBlood]

Your blind hate for players is nauseating.

You give no leeway or no consideration to factors outside of pure stats, like the fact that Stempniak had just returned from injury where he wasn't even able to skate for much of his time on IR.

You don't need to waste your time, or mine replying because I won't be able to read your posts anymore.

I find this post funny because your blind love for players is nauseating.

It is obvious you are cool with mediocrity, and you always try to bend stats to prove your points without taking into account how they might actually handle themselves on the ice. Stajan, Bouwmeester, Stempniak, Jokinen, Comeau how different is that from ricardodw's posts?

People have differing opinions on CP, just because you think these guys are awesome, not every Flames fan does.

You remind me of a previous poster on here, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Did you previously post under a different name?

[kirant]

Any evidence to support this claim?
It's calculation.

There are 82 games in a year, split between 6 months or so (Half of October, half of April). That's about 13-14 games a month (a little overestimated).

With 82 games the 20 goal scorer, evenly spread, will score ~.25 goals/game, or about 1 goal/4 games.

Taking that in, we can expect the average 20 goal scorer to score about 3-4 times in an average month.

[Enoch Root]

It's calculation.

There are 82 games in a year, split between 6 months or so (Half of October, half of April). That's about 13-14 games a month (a little overestimated).

With 82 games the 20 goal scorer, evenly spread, will score ~.25 goals/game, or about 1 goal/4 games.

Taking that in, we can expect the average 20 goal scorer to score about 3-4 times in an average month.
I can calculate an average, kirant - thanks.

What I was asking was for a demonstration of anyone actually scoring at a consistent, steady pace such as what you have just described.

20 goal scorers do not score a goal every 4th game, or 3 1/3 goals each month. They score in bunches when things are going well and they have droughts when they are not going well.

[Enoch Root]

Hagman was a far more established 20 goal scorer than Stempniak and he became non-streaky, in that he stop scoring at all and was consistently not scoring.

The same goes for Kotalik.

There is a very good evidence that Stempniak's streakiness has come to an end....

Did you seriously just argue that Hagman isn't streaky now because he doesn't score anymore?

That hardly disproves that Stempniak is typical in his consistency or lack thereof.

[Captain_Obvious]

March 2012

8 GP 1 goal 1 assist -3 18 SOG 1 PPG 1 PPA 2 PIM 16:03 toi/gm

I know ....extrapulate it.... he might have got 2 goals if he played 16 games.

Once the pressure was off and the Flames were out of the play offs he padded his stats with a goal and assist in the 2 meaningless games in April.


He was coming off injury.

The fact you live your life to wake up and come to this forum to crap all over Bouwmeester and Stempniak couldn't be more sad.

You do nothing but post the same thing over and over and over and over.

What value do you add to anything here?

[Alberta_Beef]

I find this post funny because your blind love for players is nauseating.

It is obvious you are cool with mediocrity, and you always try to bend stats to prove your points without taking into account how they might actually handle themselves on the ice. Stajan, Bouwmeester, Stempniak, Jokinen, Comeau how different is that from ricardodw's posts?

People have differing opinions on CP, just because you think these guys are awesome, not every Flames fan does.

You remind me of a previous poster on here, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Did you previously post under a different name? So saying Stempniak is a inconsistent 3rd liner that can put up 15 goals is "blind love"? Saying Stajan wasn't "given every opportunity as someone claimed is "blind love", saying Jokinen is better than the centers we currently have is "blind love", I don't even know what I have said about Comeau except he works hard, hits and could bounce back, but apparently that is "blind love" too and I think Bouwmeester is better than given credit for and I suppose that is blind love now too.

It is sad that your lack of objectivity has made it so anything other than blind disdain for a player is seen as blind love.

[ricardodw]

So saying Stempniak is a inconsistent 3rd liner that can put up 15 goals is "blind love"? Saying Stajan wasn't "given every opportunity as someone claimed is "blind love", saying Jokinen is better than the centers we currently have is "blind love", I don't even know what I have said about Comeau except he works hard, hits and could bounce back, but apparently that is "blind love" too and I think Bouwmeester is better than given credit for and I suppose that is blind love now too.

It is sad that your lack of objectivity has made it so anything other than blind disdain for a player is seen as blind love.


we have never seen what Stempniak can do as a 3rd liner..... he has been in the top-6 for all of his career getting over 15 Minutes of Ice time/game along with PP time.

With the current Flame lineup he will not be in the top 6 and not getting as much ice time and virtually no PP time.

I can see that Jones and Comeau will get more ice-time than him in a defensive role.

[Parallex]

if he can't produce and play stupid the way he played last season he was just taking spots that would have given to Bouma, Aliu, Byron or Nemisz.

Comeau is better then all of those guys.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Comeau is better then all of those guys.

... at being a bonehead and making stupid plays maybe.

No way is Comeau is better than them. Come training camp I see all those guys on an equal playing field.

[Canada 02]

I don't like Comeau either, but he's played ~300 games and scored ~140pts. Combined, Bouma, Aliu, Byron and Nemisz might not do that in their careers

[Joker]

Should I still be shocked so many posters seem to have given up on Backlund?

Considering Backs just signed a discount-ish signing or a 'prove it' contract if you will and also considering he is 4 years younger with a lot more potential than Stajan I think the 3rd line centre spot is Backs to lose personally.

If we handle Backs correctly we good have a legit shut-down centre on hands; far too early right now to call him the odd man out this year.


Aww Helllll No. Unless the guy starts 'roiding, he will continue to get physically dominated. Just imagine him matching up against Joe Thorton...Kopitar.... or trying to compete down low against LA Kings-type wingers. He might be able to match up with the Sedins, but i think its either 2nd liner or bust with backlund

[Joker]

ON TOPIC: Stempniak is a 15-20 goal guy, he adds to offensive depth so he is a good player to have

[doctajones428]

tanguay - backlund/cervanka - iginla
cammalleri - backlund/cervanka - hudler
baertchi - stajan - glencross
comeau - jones - jackman


Tanguay - Cammy - Iginla
Glencross - Cervenka - Hudler
Baertschi - Backlund - Stempniak
Jackman - Jones - Comeau

Stempniak will fill the perfect mentor role for Baertschi and Backlund

[Psytic]

More likely they plan at playing cammalleri at center regsrdless.

Cammy
Cervenka
Backlund
Stajan
Jones

So then we still have one odd man out at center instead of left wing then. I am still going with they signed Stemps cause they didn't know if Hudler was going to sign at the time.

[Da_Chief]

Cammy
Cervenka
Backlund
Stajan
Jones

So then we still have one odd man out at center instead of left wing then. I am still going with they signed Stemps cause they didn't know if Hudler was going to sign at the time.

Stemp was signed before July 1st. I doubt the signings are related at all since the Flames hadn't even talked to Hudler at all at that time.

[Psytic]

Stemp was signed before July 1st. I doubt the signings are related at all since the Flames hadn't even talked to Hudler at all at that time.

so that proves my point they needed someone to fill the 3rd line left wing. Seeing as how no one was signed. Then they ended up getting Hudler after the fact because he is obviously better. They probably didn't have Hudler even on the radar at the time.

[FAN]

Any evidence to support this claim?

Any examples of a '20 goal scorer who isn't streaky'?
Did you try looking things up yourself? I did a bit of searching and Jakub Voracek (not a 20 goal scorer last year) was pretty consistent throughout the season until he heated up a bit in March. Pretty much spent the first half scoring 1 goal ever 5-10 games. Was better from January onwards where he scored a goal every 2-5 games. Only one multi-goal game during the season. There are many ways to end up with 20 goals in a season. To categorize 20 goal scorers as all being streaky is just silly.


The only month in which Stempiak never never scored a goal in the past 2 seasons where he played a game was February 2011
Stempniak had a 15 goaless drought last season.

He had a 21 game goaless drought and a 15 game goaless drought in the previous year in a season where he scored 19 goals.

The year before that he scored 14 goals in during an 18 goal stretch with Phoenix compared to the 14 goals in 62 games he scored with Phoenix.

I only mentioned months because I was lazy and didn't want to look things up, but Stempniak's reputation for being a streaky goal scorer is pretty well deserved.

[Alberta_Beef]

ason.

He had a 21 game goaless drought and a 15 game goaless drought in the previous year in a season where he scored 19 goals.

The year before that he scored 14 goals in during an 18 goal stretch with Phoenix compared to the 14 goals in 62 games he scored with Phoenix.

I only mentioned months because I was lazy and didn't want to look things up, but Stempniak's reputation for being a streaky goal scorer is pretty well deserved.thats nice, it was conceded he was streaky/inconsistent, what exactly are you trying to prove? because no one has said he isn't.

[StrykerSteve]

Fact is, the guy should score 15 goals this year. A team needs a player like him.

[FAN]

thats nice, it was conceded he was streaky/inconsistent, what exactly are you trying to prove?

Umm... I'm confused... I said that Stempniak is the type of player who could score 6+ one month and then none the next. You quoted me and said that there was only one month in which Stempniak never scored a goal in the past 2 seasons. So... what exactly were you trying to prove?

[Diemenz]

every thread.

I honestly feel sorry for you Ricardo, living a life that negative must be tough.

[Alberta_Beef]

Umm... I'm confused... I said that Stempniak is the type of player who could score 6+ one month and then none the next. You quoted me and said that there was only one month in which Stempniak never scored a goal in the past 2 seasons. So... what exactly were you trying to prove?I replied to what you said, then you stepped back and changed what you meant. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with someone online, I said my piece to what was originally said. But no one has denied his inconsistencies.

[Karl]

I'm surprised more people don't see or don't want these lines happening.

Tanguay-Cammaleri-Iginla

Glencross-Cervenka-Hudler

Baertschi-Backlund-Stempniak

Comeau-Stajan-Jones

Jackman

Now why the 2 centres on the 4th line? For faceoff help in case one gets thrown out.

Yeah there's one soft player on the 4th line instead of 3 guys who can bang bodies and Stajan's not a good option as a 4th liner but who says there has to be a traditional 4th line? Also, Jackman can come in for Stajan (or whoever) when or if the coach sees need for it.

[Fire]

I'm surprised more people don't see or don't want these lines happening.

Tanguay-Cammaleri-Iginla

Glencross-Cervenka-Hudler

Baertschi-Backlund-Stempniak

Comeau-Stajan-Jones

Jackman

Now why the 2 centres on the 4th line? For faceoff help in case one gets thrown out.

Yeah there's one soft player on the 4th line instead of 3 guys who can bang bodies and Stajan's not a good option as a 4th liner but who says there has to be a traditional 4th line? Also, Jackman can come in for Stajan (or whoever) when or if the coach sees need for it.

I think having Baertschi and Backlund together would be a good idea. It should rejuvenate Backlund's game.

[Bezer]

It seems I am in the minority but I don't mind the guy. He didn't have a great year last year that's for sure but he showed some flashes of skill. He is on the happy side of 30 which is a bonus. I dunno if he is playing 3rd line mins with some rookies he can be utilized as a mentor and he can provide depth if guys get injured. 2.5 million per for 2 years is pretty reasonable also.

[Alberta_Beef]

I think having Baertschi and Backlund together would be a good idea. It should rejuvenate Backlund's game.can you rejuvenate a game that has never been there?

[Karl]

It seems I am in the minority but I don't mind the guy. He didn't have a great year last year that's for sure but he showed some flashes of skill. He is on the happy side of 30 which is a bonus. I dunno if he is playing 3rd line mins with some rookies he can be utilized as a mentor and he can provide depth if guys get injured. 2.5 million per for 2 years is pretty reasonable also.

Yeah, for sure. Wasn't crazy about the re-signing of Comeau and wouldnt've been upset if Stempy wasn't re-signed, but there's good potential possible if he plays with Baertschi & Backlund, 2 guys who have the potential, and in Backlund's case, needs to show it soon since he's on a 1 year deal.

[Karl]

can you rejuvenate a game that has never been there?

Yeah, rejuvenate is not the best word since he hasn't accomplished much here yet.

Ignite might be a better word for it. The potential for him to do better is there. I think there's a good chance he can fulfill some of it and hit 40ish points. Whether he will do it is another matter.

[Vulcan]

A good video on Nemisz over on the Backburner forum. I'd sure like to see him take Stempniuk's job. I don't dislike Stempniuk, I just think that we could do better for a third liner.

[HighLifeMan]

I'm surprised more people don't see or don't want these lines happening.

Tanguay-Cammaleri-Iginla

Glencross-Cervenka-Hudler

Baertschi-Backlund-Stempniak

Comeau-Stajan-Jones

Jackman

Now why the 2 centres on the 4th line? For faceoff help in case one gets thrown out.

Yeah there's one soft player on the 4th line instead of 3 guys who can bang bodies and Stajan's not a good option as a 4th liner but who says there has to be a traditional 4th line? Also, Jackman can come in for Stajan (or whoever) when or if the coach sees need for it.

If I was drawing up the lines, that is exactly how my forward group would look like to start the season.

[DeluxeMoustache]

so that proves my point they needed someone to fill the 3rd line left wing. Seeing as how no one was signed. Then they ended up getting Hudler after the fact because he is obviously better. They probably didn't have Hudler even on the radar at the time.

Obviously there is no certainty on the likelihood of acquisition, but if you don't think they have folks like Hudler on the radar, I suspect you may be underestimating GMs and their work process.

[Psytic]

Obviously there is no certainty on the likelihood of acquisition, but if you don't think they have folks like Hudler on the radar, I suspect you may be underestimating GMs and their work process.

Feels more like a , "oh he is available lets try sending an offer". A fortuitous event that probably wasn't planned months or even weeks in advance I bet.

[Enoch Root]

Feels more like a , "oh he is available lets try sending an offer". A fortuitous event that probably wasn't planned months or even weeks in advance I bet.
No, not at all - this is what they DO for a living.

You think they wake up on July 1st and say "hey, I wonder who's out there that we can pick up"?

They would have a full list of players that are primary targets, secondary targets, guys that might interest them if the price were right, etc.

They would have fully assessed the current roster and determined where they need the most improvement and then made a list of the guys they most want to target in order to address those needs.

However, there is also no telling how things will play out and how successful they will be. They would have already had plans for other players when they signed Stempniak, but they would still want to sign him a) just in case, and b) for depth regardless

[Alberta_Beef]

Feels more like a , "oh he is available lets try sending an offer". A fortuitous event that probably wasn't planned months or even weeks in advance I bet.how can anyone possibly think that these people got where they are in the hockey industry by winging it on one of the 3 days of the year that can make or break their career.

[ricardodw]

Backlund - Baertschi - Stempniak..... Not as big or gritty as Eberle, Hall and RNH and they did okay...... well if missing 20 and 21 games to injury is okay.

That would be a great way to keep Baertschi's numbers down and possibly keep him from Big money when he becomes a RFA.

It is just so sad that the other boys won't play fair and instead of skating and stickhandling with Baertschi-Backlund and Stempniak would resort to knocking them down and making them cry.... such bullies.

This sort of line makes sense of the Flames having too many forwards..... a line like this would not plan to make it through without injuries.

I sure as heck don't want Baertschi to pattern himself after Stempniak:

hide along the edges and every once in a long while a defenseman won't take you seriously and you can score a spectacular goal off of the rush.

A goal against an easy team in a meaningless game looks the same in the year end stat as a smash-mouth goal against a tough team in an important game.

You don't get paid much in the playoffs and crazy little for the effort they want you to put in.

Yes Sven .... you go in the corners and dig out the puck for me because I am a natural goal scorer.

[FAN]

Feels more like a , "oh he is available lets try sending an offer". A fortuitous event that probably wasn't planned months or even weeks in advance I bet.
Well you can't really plan too far ahead since guys get re-signed before July 1st all the time, but you can make a list of guys that you want to target come July 1st and given the weak UFA crop, it shouldn't be too hard for most teams this year. You pretty much know whether a guy is going to test the market and whether a team has any plan of re-signing the player before July 1st. But even without that information, it doesn't take much effort to create contingency plans where you have different scenarios.

As far as the Stempniak signing goes, I tend to believe that Feaster & co. feel that Stempniak is a player they want to keep in the fold and a player who can play multiple roles. I think the Stempniak signing was going to happen regardless of whether the Flames landed Hudler, but it is possible that Feaster didn't want to take the risk of playing the UFA lottery and decided to re-sign Stempniak just to be safe.

[ricardodw]

It sounds like Feaster had also offered a serious contract to Moss.

If Moss jumped on the deal like Stempniak and Comeau and Sarich and Jackman and Smith then what?

Flames had 9 pending 2012 UFAs this time last year.... They picked up Comeau and made him a UFA by not quallifying him making 10

They won the "bidding war" for 5 of them lost Jokinen and Moss , Paid to get rid of Hagman and Hannan and Kostopolus are waiting for the Flames to make their offer.

Of the Flames non-star UFA's only Moss was picked up by someone else.... Hannan and Kostopolus are still looking....... Maybe there is a case for the Feaster Brain thrust over-valuing the guys that got them to 9th spot.

[StrykerSteve]

If I was drawing up the lines, that is exactly how my forward group would look like to start the season.

Ditto.

[Bonded]

Of the Flames non-star UFA's only Moss was picked up by someone else.... Hannan and Kostopolus are still looking....... Maybe there is a case for the Feaster Brain thrustover-valuing the guys that got them to 9th spot.

That gave me an awful mental picture. Damn you!

[Vulcan]

Backlund - Baertschi - Stempniak..... Not as big or gritty as Eberle, Hall and RNH and they did okay...... well if missing 20 and 21 games to injury is okay.

That would be a great way to keep Baertschi's numbers down and possibly keep him from Big money when he becomes a RFA.

It is just so sad that the other boys won't play fair and instead of skating and stickhandling with Baertschi-Backlund and Stempniak would resort to knocking them down and making them cry.... such bullies.

This sort of line makes sense of the Flames having too many forwards..... a line like this would not plan to make it through without injuries.

I sure as heck don't want Baertschi to pattern himself after Stempniak:

hide along the edges and every once in a long while a defenseman won't take you seriously and you can score a spectacular goal off of the rush.

A goal against an easy team in a meaningless game looks the same in the year end stat as a smash-mouth goal against a tough team in an important game.

You don't get paid much in the playoffs and crazy little for the effort they want you to put in.

Yes Sven .... you go in the corners and dig out the puck for me because I am a natural goal scorer.

Yeah, it would be good if Baertschi had someone with a little bit of skill and physical gumption on his line. I like to see a rookie get some protection. The only players who fit would be Iginla and Glencross or even Comeau if the other guy has skill.

[StrykerSteve]

I'm still thinking that the success Baertschi had with Nemisz last season was no fluke... wouldn't mind seeing them together again at start the year and see how they do.

[Psytic]

how can anyone possibly think that these people got where they are in the hockey industry by winging it on one of the 3 days of the year that can make or break their career.

Often times they look to make a splash with a player they feel can make the roster better but he wasn't necessarily their first choice or their first choice is gone or they are unable to make the trade for them so they look at other options. To say that every single trade done by GM's is always calculated way way in advance I think is doubtful. I don't consider this winging it either. Its just trying to find the best option available at the time.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

I'm still thinking that the success Baertschi had with Nemisz last season was no fluke... wouldn't mind seeing them together again at start the year and see how they do.

I agree.

While Baertschi is very good at finding open space, Nemisz helped make space for him as well.

[Alberta_Beef]

I agree.

While Baertschi is very good at finding open space, Nemisz helped make space for him as well.I would really love to see some future lines looking like this, not that everyone will turn out as hoped

Baertschi - Jankowski - Nemisz
Gaudreau - Reinhart - Granlund
Ferland - Backlund - Aliu
Bouma - DeBlouw - Arnold

[Poe969]

I'd love it if MacKinnon was our #1 guy.....

[StrykerSteve]

I would really love to see some future lines looking like this, not that everyone will turn out as hoped

Baertschi - Jankowski - Nemisz
Gaudreau - Reinhart - Granlund
Ferland - Backlund - Aliu
Bouma - DeBlouw - Arnold

Poor Backlund, forever a third liner.

[Hockey_Ninja]

I'd love it if MacKinnon was our #1 guy.....
The only way for that to happen is if Kipper and Iggy are traded.

[Mister Yamoto]

Backlund - Baertschi - Stempniak..... Not as big or gritty as Eberle, Hall and RNH and they did okay...... well if missing 20 and 21 games to injury is okay.

That would be a great way to keep Baertschi's numbers down and possibly keep him from Big money when he becomes a RFA.

It is just so sad that the other boys won't play fair and instead of skating and stickhandling with Baertschi-Backlund and Stempniak would resort to knocking them down and making them cry.... such bullies.

This sort of line makes sense of the Flames having too many forwards..... a line like this would not plan to make it through without injuries.

I sure as heck don't want Baertschi to pattern himself after Stempniak:

hide along the edges and every once in a long while a defenseman won't take you seriously and you can score a spectacular goal off of the rush.

A goal against an easy team in a meaningless game looks the same in the year end stat as a smash-mouth goal against a tough team in an important game.

You don't get paid much in the playoffs and crazy little for the effort they want you to put in.

Yes Sven .... you go in the corners and dig out the puck for me because I am a natural goal scorer.

Well then what do you suggest? I agree that Baertchi shouldn't be with Stempniak, but the Flames don't have nearly enough "bangers" to put one on every line. I like Baertchi-----Cervenka------Hudler. I like it because that could be a good "chemistry" line and I think even as a rookie, Sven needs to play in a top 6 role. I know, other coaches will say "go after Baertchi physically" but what else are you going to do? You can't put him with Jones and give him top 6 minutes. I dunno, Glencross maybe?

[Captain_Obvious]

Well then what do you suggest? I agree that Baertchi shouldn't be with Stempniak, but the Flames don't have nearly enough "bangers" to put one on every line. I like Baertchi-----Cervenka------Hudler. I like it because that could be a good "chemistry" line and I think even as a rookie, Sven needs to play in a top 6 role. I know, other coaches will say "go after Baertchi physically" but what else are you going to do? You can't put him with Jones and give him top 6 minutes. I dunno, Glencross maybe?

He doesn't suggest anything. He just lives his life to come here and bash Stempniak and Bouwmeester every day without exception.

The mere suggestion that putting Sven on a line with Stempniak (a 20 goal scorer) is somehow going to weaken him is ridiclous. But that's ricardodw for you.

[Alberta_Beef]

He doesn't suggest anything. He just lives his life to come here and bash Stempniak and Bouwmeester every day without exception.

The mere suggestion that putting Sven on a line with Stempniak (a 20 goal scorer) is somehow going to weaken him is ridiclous. But that's ricardodw for you.I agree, in fact I think someone with a good shot like Stempniak could be an excellent player for Baertschi to play with.

I am more unsure of Backlund centering that line than Stempniak and Baertschi being the wingers to be honest. I think those 2 could will generate 30-40 points each and IMO if they have a centerman that can produce at least 35 points I think both have a shot at surpassing 40 points.

I also don't think Sempniak is as soft as he is made out to be either, he was 6th in hits amongst Flames forwards last year despite playing only 61 games, in his final year in Phoenix he put up 124 hits and the season before that he was just over a hit per game.

[Captain_Obvious]

I also don't think Sempniak is as soft as he is made out to be either, he was 6th in hits amongst Flames forwards last year despite playing only 61 games, in his final year in Phoenix he put up 124 hits and the season before that he was just over a hit per game.

I agree, if you go to youtube you can find a lot of videos of him laying hits and playing hard on the forecheck.

ricardodw has it in his (one track) mind Stempniak is Sedin-soft and just repeats it ad nauseam thinking that will make it true.

It would be one thing if he said it once or twice but it's a daily routine for him.

I think Sven would have a lot of success setting up a 20-goal scorer like Stempniak and if Backlund has a bounce-back season that could indeed be a good line.

[ricardodw]

I also don't think Sempniak is as soft as he is made out to be either, he was 6th in hits amongst Flames forwards last year despite playing only 61 games, in his final year in Phoenix he put up 124 hits and the season before that he was just over a hit per game.


Thanks for bringing up how soft the Flames were last year.

On LA forwards he would have been 12th in hits.... 2 of the forwards he out hit - Justin Williams and Jeff Carter are in a different skill category than what Stempniak brings to the table.

On NJD he would be 11th in hits.... Kovalchuck, Sykora and Zajac( only 15 games) behind him.


on the Vancouver Canucks forwards, who would rather dive than man up he would be the 11th in hits..... The Sedins are both behind him in hits but they contribute in other ways.

The Kings physically imposed their will on the Canucks . The Canucks saw this coming and traded Hodgson ( more skill than Stempniak) to get a bigger tougher less talented Kassian.

If you are going to be as soft as Stempniak you had better be as good as Tanguay, Cammalleri and Hudler.

I have to admit I did not watch him close enough when he had 124 hits in Phx. He gave no indication as a Flame that he could bang.


I guess even this conversation has shown how far we have come where we are using hits to gauge the ability to stand up and watch a rookie's back and provide some room.

Stempniak has had 4 career fights.

He projects small. Perhaps last year he did not find an opportunity to express his physicality for a whole season. Perhaps due to the Flames lack of physical support he decided it would be best not to go looking for trouble.

[FAN]

Stempniak is an enigma and it's not just because he's a streaky goal scorer. His physical game also comes and go. When he's on, Stempniak is definitely not a soft player by NHL standards.

[ricardodw]

Well then what do you suggest? I agree that Baertchi shouldn't be with Stempniak, but the Flames don't have nearly enough "bangers" to put one on every line. I like Baertchi-----Cervenka------Hudler. I like it because that could be a good "chemistry" line and I think even as a rookie, Sven needs to play in a top 6 role. I know, other coaches will say "go after Baertchi physically" but what else are you going to do? You can't put him with Jones and give him top 6 minutes. I dunno, Glencross maybe?

If Baertschi somehow is not on the top-6 then I would see him being put on a line with Comeau.

Jones is liable/likely to get top-9 minutes but in a 100% checking role that would not have Baertschi on his wing.

You have to have someone who has some grit. It may come down to who can play harder/bigger Stajan or Backlund.

A lot depends this season if Cervenka really is a Brick outhouse 5' 11" 185 that plays in the hard areas. Jokinen had the size to match up with the stronger Centres but not the disposition.

The Flames lineup just has too many soft skilled player on one-way contracts to fit in.

I have difficulty believing that Tanguay, Cammalleri, Hudler, Stajan, Backlund, Stempniak, Baertschi, Horak will all be on the opening day roster. 8 skilled non-physical guys out of 13 forward spots.... or 7 out of 13 if horak is pushed to the Heat.

It might not be the softest lineup ever, because of Glencross and Iginla... but it will compare to the Edmonton line up where they have the 4 young stars plus Hemsky and Horcoff playing soft non-contact and Smyth and Jones the only forwards with jam that get more than 12 minute/game.

People point to the Edmonton D being their downfall, but the Flames match up well with Edmonton because the Oilers are even weaker physically.


There likely is a trade coming , or there will be some Horak/Brodie surprises coming out of camp. Alui, Bouma, Nemisz, Byron, Rienhardt, Howse play their way on to the team and some big contracts watch and wait for injuries like Babchuck and Sarich did last year.

Prust and/or Kostopolus would have dressed for as many games as they were physically fit.

[Hockey_Ninja]

I was just imagining what the line-up would had been if the Flames didn't re-sign Stempniak, Comeau or Jackman and if they found a way to move out Stajan and Babchuk. It would be as follows:

Tanguay-Cammalleri-Iginla
Glencross-Cervenka-Hudler
Baertschi-Backlund-Nemisz
Horak-Jones-Bouma
Byron

Bouwmeester-Wideman
Giordano-Butler
Brodie-Sarich
Smith

Kiprusoff
Irving

I can honestly say that that line-up would have been more interesting to watch. We'd have 8 players 25 or younger and we'd have over $10M in cap space open. The only downside is that we wouldn't really be a playoff team but those young guys have a lot of room to grow.

[ricardodw]

I was just imagining what the line-up would had been if the Flames didn't re-sign Stempniak, Comeau or Jackman and if they found a way to move out Stajan and Babchuk. It would be as follows:

Tanguay-Cammalleri-Iginla
Glencross-Cervenka-Hudler
Baertschi-Backlund-Nemisz
Horak-Jones-Bouma
Byron

Bouwmeester-Wideman
Giordano-Butler
Brodie-Sarich
Smith

Kiprusoff
Irving

I can honestly say that that line-up would have been more interesting to watch. We'd have 8 players 25 or younger and we'd have over $10M in cap space open. The only downside is that we wouldn't really be a playoff team but those young guys have a lot of room to grow.


Alui makes the 4th line rather than Horak but that is not that much of a downgrade to what we are going to be going with anyway.

[Mitch]

Alui makes the 4th line rather than Horak but that is not that much of a downgrade to what we are going to be going with anyway.

Alui is better then Horak after playing 2 NHL games? Ha

[jaikorven]

Alui is better then Horak after playing 2 NHL games? Ha

Better in a 4th line role.

[Mitch]

Better in a 4th line role.

How's that? Alui is a better agitator- that's it. I can't believe how overrated he is here on CP. Horak is much better defensively and I'd rather play him then Alui.

[Alberta_Beef]

How's that? Alui is a better agitator- that's it. I can't believe how overrated he is here on CP. Horak is much better defensively and I'd rather play him then Alui.I think it depends on teh role that needs to be filled. Aliu is more physical and a better agitator, but Horak is more skilled and better defensively.

Personally I would like Horak in the AHL for a year in order to try and improve his offensive game and faceoffs, Or to move him to the wing outright.

As for Aliu he has become very overrated yes, but he does possess some qualities that that Flames lack. But I expect him to spend the year in the AHL as well.

[Phanuthier]

I'm still thinking that the success Baertschi had with Nemisz last season was no fluke... wouldn't mind seeing them together again at start the year and see how they do.
Definitely agree there

[MrMastodonFarm]

Definitely agree there

3rd...

Nemisz's board work in the Minnesota game was just fantastic. He was creating chances for his linemates.

[Hockey_Ninja]

I agree. I hope Nemisz can win a roster spot out of camp.

[Alberta_Beef]

I agree. I hope Nemisz can win a roster spot out of camp.I just don't see Nemisz beating out Jackman, Comeau, Stempniak, Hudler or Ignla for a RW job. His best shot IMO is to sneak in and steal the 4th line center spot.

[Psytic]

I just don't see Nemisz beating out Jackman, Comeau, Stempniak, Hudler or Ignla for a RW job. His best shot IMO is to sneak in and steal the 4th line center spot.

They shouldn't have re-signed Comeau or Jackman. I think Nemisz is rdy for an NHL job.

[Alberta_Beef]

They shouldn't have re-signed Comeau or Jackman. I think Nemisz is rdy for an NHL job.I think he is too, but that isn't the problem, its that no one after Nemisz is NHL ready on the right side.

I think the ridiculous number of injuries last season have made Feaster a bit gun shy to be honest. I think he sees this as Nemisz being an NHL ready call-up when we do have injuries, and believes that is a better option than having Nemisz as a regular and then having Aliu as the call-up depth.

As for who they should have or shouldn't have signed, it's all moot because what's done is done.

[Psytic]

I think he is too, but that isn't the problem, its that no one after Nemisz is NHL ready on the right side.

I think the ridiculous number of injuries last season have made Feaster a bit gun shy to be honest. I think he sees this as Nemisz being an NHL ready call-up when we do have injuries, and believes that is a better option than having Nemisz as a regular and then having Aliu as the call-up depth.

As for who they should have or shouldn't have signed, it's all moot because what's done is done.



They really still only needed to re-sign one of those two. Msg Boards are for discussion most threads here talk about what the Flames should or shouldn't have done its the point of a message board so I don't understand the last comment.

[Alberta_Beef]

They really still only needed to re-sign one of those two. Msg Boards are for discussion most threads here talk about what the Flames should or shouldn't have done its the point of a message board so I don't understand the last comment.Why can't the discussion be about what will happen? Talking about what should have happened can only be said a few times before becoming painfully redundant and we already have ricardo to remind of of how we shouldn't have signed him in every post he makes

[Captain_Obvious]

Thanks for bringing up how soft the Flames were last year.

On LA forwards he would have been 12th in hits.... 2 of the forwards he out hit - Justin Williams and Jeff Carter are in a different skill category than what Stempniak brings to the table.

On NJD he would be 11th in hits.... Kovalchuck, Sykora and Zajac( only 15 games) behind him.


on the Vancouver Canucks forwards, who would rather dive than man up he would be the 11th in hits..... The Sedins are both behind him in hits but they contribute in other ways.





I guess even this conversation has shown how far we have come where we are using hits to gauge the ability to stand up and watch a rookie's back and provide some room.


Just brilliant. Complains for paragraph after paragraph by using hit statistics, and in the very next thought throws sarcasm on those who bring up hits to try and prove anything.

Couldn't be more typical of your short-sightedness.

Suggesting that because Stempniak can't fight means he would be a poor line mate for Sven is beyond ridiculous.

[kirant]

How's that? Alui is a better agitator- that's it. I can't believe how overrated he is here on CP. Horak is much better defensively and I'd rather play him then Alui.
It depends what you want your 4th line to do. An Aliu/Jones/Jackman (or Comeau) 4th line would obviously be designed for checking and physical play. A line like Horak/Stajan/Comeau would be less physical and would serve as a more of a two-way line.

[Psytic]

Why can't the discussion be about what will happen? Talking about what should have happened can only be said a few times before becoming painfully redundant and we already have ricardo to remind of of how we shouldn't have signed him in every post he makes

Because none of us are fortune tellers unless you want to tell me the winning lotto numbers. all we can do is speculate what should be done. None of us know what will happen.

[FAN]

Why can't the discussion be about what will happen? Talking about what should have happened can only be said a few times before becoming painfully redundant
That's the nature of discussion. We discuss what happened more than what we think will happen. Are you seriously more interested in discussing/speculating on whether Stempniak is going to score 20 goals next year, whether he will get injured next year, and whether he'll get traded before the season is done? I suppose you can guess away.

[Phanuthier]

I think he is too, but that isn't the problem, its that no one after Nemisz is NHL ready on the right side.

I think the ridiculous number of injuries last season have made Feaster a bit gun shy to be honest. I think he sees this as Nemisz being an NHL ready call-up when we do have injuries, and believes that is a better option than having Nemisz as a regular and then having Aliu as the call-up depth.

As for who they should have or shouldn't have signed, it's all moot because what's done is done.
I hope thats not the case, if it is, that is dumb. Nemisz should be in the NHL, if Feaster wants depth, sign them via 2-way deals. Starting Nemisz in the AHL "just in case we get a ton of injuries" is dumb.

[Heavy Jack]

I look forward to Stemps putting up 45ish points. I think he can be a perfect shot to put on the right side of Baertschi who knows how to find shooters. We have 3 legit scoring lines going into the season at the moment:

Tanguay - Cammalleri - Iginla
Glencross - Cervenka - Hudler
Baertschi - Backlund - Stempniak

[Alberta_Beef]

I look forward to Stemps putting up 45ish points. I think he can be a perfect shot to put on the right side of Baertschi who knows how to find shooters. We have 3 legit scoring lines going into the season at the moment:

Tanguay - Cammalleri - Iginla
Glencross - Cervenka - Hudler
Baertschi - Backlund - Stempniakmaybe I have been burned too many times in the past, but I have trouble referring to a top 9 with 2 rookies and Backlund as 3 legit scoring lines.

[Alberta_Beef]

That's the nature of discussion. We discuss what happened more than what we think will happen. Are you seriously more interested in discussing/speculating on whether Stempniak is going to score 20 goals next year, whether he will get injured next year, and whether he'll get traded before the season is done? I suppose you can guess away.there is much more to speculate than that as there is for every player.

[Coach]

there is much more to speculate than that as there is for every player.

Not really when you consider the things that are WORTH speculating about a player. Points and overall performance, sure. Specualting on something like injuries is just plain pointless.

[Alberta_Beef]

Not really when you consider the things that are WORTH speculating about a player. Points and overall performance, sure. Specualting on something like injuries is just plain pointless.i never suggested speculating on injuries. but year production and performance are one thing to speculate on, then there are who he will play with, what roles he will see and things of that nature. it's not a bottomless pit that goes on forever but there is much more to think about that how we shouldn't have signed him

[Coach]

^^ Yeah I agree, and I know this is obviously a discussion board, but really speculating on anything is kind of pointless. And I can understand why some people can be annoyed with the redundancy that ultimate arises from such discussions.

Honestly I feel like this Flames team is the most exciting in years purely based on that fact that we have absolutely no idea how a lot of players are going to perform. Guys like Baertschi, Hudler and Cervenka could completely bust, or break out for 80+ points. You never know.

[FAN]

i never suggested speculating on injuries. but year production and performance are one thing to speculate on, then there are who he will play with, what roles he will see and things of that nature. it's not a bottomless pit that goes on forever but there is much more to think about that how we shouldn't have signed him
Why not start a fantasy hockey thread or go to a fantasy hockey board? I'm sure you'll find the discussion more to your liking there.

Personally, I am more interested in debating whether to re-sign a player than to speculate on a player's production this year, his role on the team, and "things of that nature." In reality though, everything is connected. If one is of the opinion that Stempniak shouldn't be re-signed, speculating Stempniak's production next season, who he'll play with, and his role on the team is rather pointless. If your'e of the opinion that Stempniak should be re-signed, you'll likely see Stempniak being in a certain production range, playing with certain players, and having a certain role on the team. But the discussion should almost always start with "should this player be a part of the Calgary Flames organization?"

[Alberta_Beef]

Why not start a fantasy hockey thread or go to a fantasy hockey board? I'm sure you'll find the discussion more to your liking there.

Personally, I am more interested in debating whether to re-sign a player than to speculate on a player's production this year, his role on the team, and "things of that nature." In reality though, everything is connected. If one is of the opinion that Stempniak shouldn't be re-signed, speculating Stempniak's production next season, who he'll play with, and his role on the team is rather pointless. If your'e of the opinion that Stempniak should be re-signed, you'll likely see Stempniak being in a certain production range, playing with certain players, and having a certain role on the team. But the discussion should almost always start with "should this player be a part of the Calgary Flames organization?"
so because I don't see the point in incessantly whinging about a signing I would be better off in a fantasy hockey board?

He is signed, its time to get over it, shut the #### up and move on to supporting the players we have

[FAN]

so because I don't see the point in incessantly whinging about a signing I would be better off in a fantasy hockey board?

He is signed, its time to get over it, shut the #### up and move on to supporting the players we have
I think what you should do is try to buy this site and force everyone to talk only about things you want to talk about. :rolleyes:

[Captain_Obvious]

Lee Stempniak has been one of our best forwards this year.

He deserves some props, and Ricardow needs to eat some serious crow for suggesting the guy is a jersey full of air that never hits anyone and needs to be waived.

Lee has shown great jump, is driving to the net and putting up points no matter who he's playing with. He's also playing very gritty and going to the hard areas with vigor.

If we get our top line going he's going to add some valuable depth scoring this year.

[Roof-Daddy]

Heh, yeap, Stempniak, Wideman and Hudler......real amnesty buy out candidates these guys all are.

:rolleyes:

[Goodlad]

One thing to keep in mind is Stempniak is known to be a player that runs hot and cold. He's currently on a hot streak (which is awesome) but in the past when he wasn't scoring he was useless out there. This season looks completely different. He's back checking, throwing the body around and creating havoc in front of the net. I think even if he hits a slow spot this season he'll still be an effective player out there.

[StrykerSteve]

:)

[you got PHANUEFED]

2 words: Contract year.

[StrykerSteve]

2 words: Contract year.

? He isn't in a contract year. He signed a 2 year deal.

[FlamesAddiction]

Stempniak's reputation has always been that he is a super streak, super streaky player. Super streaky.

He has been on PPG paces before but always tapers off.

[Hatter]

Stempniak is streaky, but he's playing different. He's all over the ice out there. He could have 0 points this season and personally, I'd be gushing about his play anyways. Stemps is out there breaking up plays, throwing his body around, and driving hard to the net.

Looks good on him!

[Stay Golden]

Hartley seems to be doing a hell of allot better with Stempniak than Sutter did. Stemniak is a different player this season maybe he just needs a 1/2 season to play great.
He wants the puck and its finding him. Backlund is clicking really well with him.

[Diemenz]

2 words: Contract year.

2 words:Your Wrong.

[flylock shox]

2 words:Your Wrong.

3 words would have been better.

[FAN]

Stempniak has always been a streaky player and its not just his scoring. His physical involvement and engagement comes and goes. Don't fool yourself into thinking he's a different player.

[Alberta_Beef]

Stempniak has always been a streaky player and its not just his scoring. His physical involvement and engagement comes and goes. Don't fool yourself into thinking he's a different player.All players are streaky to some degree, the trick is to make sure not everyone is cold at the same time. That is the difference between the Flames making the playoffs or not in my humble opinion.

[KOgear]

contract year ftw!

[edn88]

contract year ftw!

Except he has one more year on his current contract.

I think that Stempniak is under rate and under appreciated. Streaky or not, he is a valued part of this team.

[Street Pharmacist]

Except he has one more year on his current contract.

I think that Stempniak is under rate and under appreciated. Streaky or not, he is a valued part of this team.

He's underrated now, when he's playing well, but he wasn't last year when he sucked balls

[Imported_Aussie]

Stempniak is a great fit as the 3rd line RW. Give him more mins and PP mins when he plays well, when he goes cold, just down to a regular 3rd line shift, unless a 4th liner is firing.
It's when a team is relying on him as a consistent source of offence that he looks out of his depth. Hartley should ride his hot streak and feed him minutes now, and keep Baertschi ready to jump up into his spot when he goes cold.

[-TC-]

his linemates were looking for him all night...they seem to recognize that they shold be feeding him right now.

I'm really impressed thus far with Stmepy

[bluck]

3 words would have been better.

:hehehe::hehehe:

[red sky]

What a shot:

fViYM41i7GI

[KOgear]

http://yotesgurl.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/stempniaked.jpg?w=640

[Roof-Daddy]

Lee Snipeniak

[Captain_Obvious]

No ricardow?

He must have suffered another 'fatal error' when trying to calculate what he's been seeing this year.


2 years at 2.5/yr think Hagman, Kotalik and Babchuk when calculating the return Stepniak will get.

Absolute gross overpayment.

I think that Phoenix made us take him and his bad contract when we dumped Langkow's salary would be indicative of what he was worth.


He makes the team weaker..... doesn't hit and didn't go on a scoring tear in the last year.... what a waste of cap space and a roster spot.

I have my new least favorite Flame....