Star Trek 2 (XII) (Now with spoilers)

[KTrain]

I thought this new movie might be thread worthy.

They've released the teaser for the new movie today. Looks like they'll be taking on Khan again.

EDIT: Apparently I can't read and this is a fan-made trailer.

a-13Ic19WUs

[blankall]

Also looks like there will be no shortage of computer generated blue lense flare.

KHAAAANNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hemi-Cuda]

that's a fan made trailer

[blankall]

that's a fan made trailer

Yup. It's a good one too. From the actual youtube link:


While fans eagerly await any and every piece of content concerning J.J.'s frontier, we at MOVIECLIPS took it upon ourselves to get our hands dirty in the excitement with this fan-made teaser trailer. We'll be right on deck ready to bring you the official trailer when it debuts, until then, hope you enjoy!
Making of video coming soon ! ! !

[Locke]

Whats Ricardo Montalban up to these days?

I'm betting that hes chilling on a private island relaxing on a couch made of real Corinthian leather.

[trackercowe]

Whats Ricardo Montalban up to these days?

I'm betting that hes chilling on a private island relaxing on a couch made of real Corinthian leather.

Or six feet under.

Montalbán died on January 14, 2009 at his home in the Greater Los Angeles Area, at age 88. According to his son-in-law Gilbert Smith, Montalbán died of "complications from advancing age". His cause of death was later revealed to be congestive heart failure.[30][31] He is buried next to his wife in Culver City's Holy Cross Cemetery.[32]

It's a shame Benicio Del Toro isn't going to end up taking on the role as Khan, as he would have been a step up over Eric Bana from the first movie (which was really its only weakness).

[troutman]

Whats Ricardo Montalban up to these days?

I'm betting that hes chilling on a private island relaxing on a couch made of real Corinthian leather.

He died in 2009. Thanks, Kathie Lee Gifford.

[Locke]

Oh. Well then. I suppose I should have looked that up.

Did Chrysler at least pony up to upholster his casket in real Corinthian leather? That would seem to be the honourable thing to do.

[troutman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinthian_leather

[Northendzone]

my mistress has many items made of Corinthian leather......

[KTrain]

that's a fan made trailer

I've been fooled. Impressive trailer though.

[Flabbibulin]

The real one, when it is released, has a lot to live up to. The 3rd trailer from the first movie is probably the greatest trailer of all time:

8ETDE0VGJY4

[Hemi-Cuda]

It's a shame Benicio Del Toro isn't going to end up taking on the role as Khan, as he would have been a step up over Eric Bana from the first movie (which was really its only weakness).

when i picture Khan as a genetically engineered super human, this isn't the face i'd associate to him

http://www.dailymakeover.com/appImages/galleryImages/Celebrity_Hairstyles/Benicio_Del_Toro+Mar_2005.jpg

the rumored casting looks far more like a genetic experiment

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTU5MDkwNDg3MV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNjI5NTIxNw@@._ V1._SY314_CR8,0,214,314_.jpg

[troutman]

Simon Pegg Says the STAR TREK 2 Villain Is Not Khan


http://collider.com/simon-pegg-star-trek-2-villain-khan/169740/

[To Be Quite Honest]

What's with the fan made trailer KTrain?

Hey KTrain, that's a fan made Trailer.

What are you trying to do KTrain? Turn this place into a fan made trailer park?

KTrain loves him his fan made trailers.

[Yamer]

Simon Pegg Says the STAR TREK 2 Villain Is Not Khan


http://collider.com/simon-pegg-star-trek-2-villain-khan/169740/

I had heard a while ago that it wasn't Khan, but that it will be a familiar villain from the original series.

[Yeah_Baby]

Simon Pegg Says the STAR TREK 2 Villain Is Not Khan


http://collider.com/simon-pegg-star-trek-2-villain-khan/169740/

I honestly hope it isn't Khan. Khan again would be super lame.

[Yamer]

I honestly hope it isn't Khan. Khan again would be super lame.

Crazy thing is that Khan could be implemented into the deviated timeline easily since he was put into hyper-sleep (?) in (according to the 1960s Star Trek universe) the mid 1990s.

If this franchise continues past the second or third movie, then I almost guarantee Khan shows up.

[pylon]

I honestly hope it isn't Khan. Khan again would be super lame.

Trying to re-do Khan, could kill this franchise. Ricardo Montoblan, in my opinion played the best movie villain of all time in that role. To me, it would be like trying to re-make Airplane! without Leslie Nielsen or Rocky without Stallone. I just couldn't see it working.

Khan should be a retired character, nobody will ever top the original performance. I suppose the same could be said about all the other characters in the series, but I honestly believe Khan was the single best Star Trek character role of all time, including the original cast. He stole the screen from Shatner in ST2.

Lets ask Ricardo what he thinks, shall we?

VYPsoxpt0BU

[pylon]

Sorry, no Khan thread is ever complete without:

KHHAAAAAAANNNNNN!

wRnSnfiUI54

[Yeah_Baby]

Crazy thing is that Khan could be implemented into the deviated timeline easily since he was put into hyper-sleep (?) in (according to the 1960s Star Trek universe) the mid 1990s.

If this franchise continues past the second or third movie, then I almost guarantee Khan shows up.

I don't care how 'easily' he could show up or be implemented. The whole point of the this JJverse thing was to free NuTrek from the confines of Canon, so why just retread old films and tv episodes? It's lazy writing.


Is the real Star Trek II best picture worthy? No, but it has a depth that no other Trek Movie has even come close to. Any version of Khan in the JJverse would be cheap imitation filled with Uhura bra shots and lens flares.

[MrMastodonFarm]

It's amazing how after all the hype the JJ Abrams Star Trek is a run of the mile Trek story.

Seriously, eject the core...? Haven't seen that before.

[zamler]

Here is the actual trailer. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsg97bxuJnc)

[Traditional_Ale]

It's amazing how after all the hype the JJ Abrams Star Trek is a run of the mile Trek story.

Seriously, eject the core...? Haven't seen that before.

You're freaking mental. Even if it is the Jverse, that is a kick-ass take of an origin story for one of the most beloved franchises of all time. The core ejection was one of many shout-outs/tributes/"puns" throughout the movie.

Was it the greatest movie ever? No. Hell no, but it brought Star Trek back from the dead in a big way. How many times in your life do you get to feel like you're ten years old again for a couple hours? Star Trek (TNG especially) was such a huge part of my childhood, and to get to go for one more ride on the Enterprise after all that time really made my day. I can't wait for the next one no matter what they do.

[Yeah_Baby]

But NuTrek isn't real Star Trek. I could never see JJ et al doing 'City on the Edge of Forever', 'Tapestry', 'Family', 'Duet' or 'In The Pale Moonlight'.


But I digress.

[MrMastodonFarm]

I liked the Star Trek movie.

The hype was just hilarious though, it was a run of the mile story, with lots of lens flares.

[Traditional_Ale]

But NuTrek isn't real Star Trek. I could never see JJ et al doing 'City on the Edge of Forever', 'Tapestry', 'Family', 'Duet' or 'In The Pale Moonlight'.


But I digress.

And up until now, nobody could/would do what he's doing. It's different while being the same, fresh but also traditional in it's own way. I like it.

Those were awesome episodes though.

[Traditional_Ale]

I liked the Star Trek movie.

The hype was just hilarious though, it was a run of the mile story, with lots of lens flares.

Yeah, but I really loved the lens flares. Again, something new and I actually really thought it helped give the movie a unique look/feel.

[MrMastodonFarm]

One or two lens flares are neat.

In Serenity it was a neat natural looking thing Joss Wheadon used effectively.

In Star Trek JJ Abrams went overboard with it, used it any chance he got, even he admits he went crazy. In some interviews Abrams seems almost embarrassed about the lens flares when it's mentioned.

[CaptainCrunch]

I have my doubts that anyone can be as chilling of a villian as RM's Khan, even in the movie you felt a certain amount of sympathy for the guy, and the question was always If i was put in the same spot would I become like Khan

It would be logical for Star Trek to remake Space Seed, but I don't know how they could make a different story line.

"We offered the world order"

4V1rScsN9wo

I think the next villian is going to be Harry Mudd, I hope its not the Klingons, we've been hit to hard by the Klingons.

I think a remake of the Rumulan episode where they chased the cloaked ship, but there's no potential for anything but in ship environments.

[trackercowe]

You are telling me that no one liked the plasma, psychedelic jizz cloud from The Motion Picture? Worst movie villain ever (well not really, but it's up there).

[Hack&Lube]

I believe all we know right now is that the villain is played by the guy who plays Sherlock Holmes in the new Stefen Moffat series

[killer_carlson]

Khan will go down as one of the best pop culture villains ever.

[Hack&Lube]

The guy who composed the theme to Taxi does Star Trek: The Motion Picture. I'm so confused.

h1QRk-dLjUs

And before they settled on just recycling the Motion Picture themesong for TNG, this was actually the original alternate theme the producers were mulling over. Pretty awfully generic.

8NvulPF-IGc

[CaptainCrunch]

You are telling me that no one liked the plasma, psychedelic jizz cloud from The Motion Picture? Worst movie villain ever (well not really, but it's up there).

I really liked that movie, I think it was too smart for the average movie goer of the time.

I thought that V'ger was a very good villain.

[awildermode]

Sneak at (what could be) a Klingon :

http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/ST2_kllingonabrams.jpg

[pylon]

I really liked that movie, I think it was too smart for the average movie goer of the time.

I thought that V'ger was a very good villain.

100% agree. That movie has aged incredibly well, and the production quality was far better than any of the other original cast pictures. It had a very 2001 sorta vibe to it right down to the plot. I think people were expecting more of a space opera like Star Wars. I believed they went a little to science nerd for the average joe. I really gained a new appreciation for the movie after watching it for the first time in about a decade just a few months ago. It still looks amazing, and has a very dark vibe to it.

[Hack&Lube]

Sneak at (what could be) a Klingon :

http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/ST2_kllingonabrams.jpg

That's just a picture from the cut scenes in the first movie where they did have Klingons at the prison camp that whats his face was held at for 20 years.

[Yeah_Baby]

I really liked that movie, I think it was too smart for the average movie goer of the time.

I thought that V'ger was a very good villain.

I think another problem people have with TMP is the fact that it is more about Decker than it is about the TOS cast.

[Wormius]

I know Mudd was more of a comical foe, but I think a darker, more nefarious trickster verison of him would be good.

Aside from that, I don't see any reason why some Next Generation content couldn't be fodder. A Q-continuum tie-in would be nice.

[Yamer]

I don't care how 'easily' he could show up or be implemented. The whole point of the this JJverse thing was to free NuTrek from the confines of Canon, so why just retread old films and tv episodes? It's lazy writing.


Is the real Star Trek II best picture worthy? No, but it has a depth that no other Trek Movie has even come close to. Any version of Khan in the JJverse would be cheap imitation filled with Uhura bra shots and lens flares.

Fair enough, but even the first movie of the reboot had a ton of retreaded factors. The Kobayashi Maru, McCoy's nickname, etc.

Hey, I'm not saying I want to see them introduce a new Khan, I just figure the plot of the first movie leaves the possibility open. Chris Pine was able to pull off a convincing James Kirk without a cheap Shatner imitation, Khan could be re-invented as well (as cringeworthy as that may sound to the die hard loyalists).

According to the leaked photos from February, I wouldn't be surprised if Benedict Cumberbatch is playing Gary Mitchell. Perhaps the reports I read a year ago are wrong, and they have come up with a completely original villain. Nostalgia prefers the former, but I would be excited to see a new series of baddies.

[Yeah_Baby]

Fair enough, but even the first movie of the reboot had a ton of retreaded factors. The Kobayashi Maru, McCoy's nickname, etc.

Hey, I'm not saying I want to see them introduce a new Khan, I just figure the plot of the first movie leaves the possibility open. Chris Pine was able to pull off a convincing James Kirk without a cheap Shatner imitation, Khan could be re-invented as well (as cringeworthy as that may sound to the die hard loyalists).

According to the leaked photos from February, I wouldn't be surprised if Benedict Cumberbatch is playing Gary Mitchell. Perhaps the reports I read a year ago are wrong, and they have come up with a completely original villain. Nostalgia prefers the former, but I would be excited to see a new series of baddies.

Except Bone's nickname had nothing to do with his divorce, but hey, at least the fact that McCoy is divorced is finally cannon. And I hated they way Kirk 'passed' the Kobayashi Maru. I mean he always cheated, but he changed the conditions of the test, he didn't just hack it so one torpedo can blow up each ####. That doesn't deserve a commendation for original thinking.



(blacks out in Trekkie rage)






Man, it's amazing I have a girlfriend.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Man, it's amazing I have a girlfriend.

You're not gay?

[Yeah_Baby]

You're not gay?


Shocking right?

[MrMastodonFarm]

...Disappointing!:kiss:

[CaptainCrunch]

God just say no the Q, he was fun and everything, but he should stay in the next gen field.

There were several great villians that could be explored in the new trek univers

Gary Mitchell, even though he should have been introduced in the first movie.
Mudd he could easily be darkened up.
The Klingons and Romulons even through I'd prefer they were left out.
I forget his last name but that Gary guy from the future who tried to change the time line.
The Guardian at the edge of forever, they could jump time lines.

How about the mirror universe, that universes time line had to change too.

[Yamer]

God just say no the Q, he was fun and everything, but he should stay in the next gen field.

There were several great villians that could be explored in the new trek univers

Gary Mitchell, even though he should have been introduced in the first movie.
Mudd he could easily be darkened up.
The Klingons and Romulons even through I'd prefer they were left out.
I forget his last name but that Gary guy from the future who tried to change the time line.
The Guardian at the edge of forever, they could jump time lines.

How about the mirror universe, that universes time line had to change too.

To add to that list, there is also the possibility of the Talosians at some point.

[CaptainCrunch]

The buttheads with the throbbing veins.

I like it

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuqtksTudLGNgGdS4P0JPYfhY81XACn zQKEAe3coyHxRWrn3OlM8uvUWyiVA

[mykalberta]

Except Bone's nickname had nothing to do with his divorce, but hey, at least the fact that McCoy is divorced is finally cannon. And I hated they way Kirk 'passed' the Kobayashi Maru. I mean he always cheated, but he changed the conditions of the test, he didn't just hack it so one torpedo can blow up each ####. That doesn't deserve a commendation for original thinking.



(blacks out in Trekkie rage)






Man, it's amazing I have a girlfriend.

I always thought his resolution of the Kobayashi Maru scenario was to sacrifice the other ship and lure a couple of warbirds to the ship then set it on self destruct and transport all the people to the Enterprise then fight it out and barely win.

Hacking into the program to turn all the shields off each of the warbirds was lame.

[CaptainCrunch]

Spock (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000559/): The Kobayashi Maru scenario frequently wreaks havoc on students and equipment. As I recall you took the test three times yourself. Your final solution was, shall we say, unique?
Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): It had the virtue of never having been tried.
Share this quote (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084726/quotes?qt0454865)
Saavik (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000263/): Admiral, may I ask you a question?
Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): What's on your mind, Lieutenant?
Saavik (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000263/): The Kobayashi Maru, sir.
Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): Are you asking me if we're playing out that scenario now?
Saavik (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000263/): On the test, sir... will you tell me what you did? I would really like to know.
McCoy (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001420/): Lieutenant, you are looking at the only Starfleet cadet who ever beat the no-win scenario.
Saavik (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000263/): How?
Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): I reprogrammed the simulation so it was possible to rescue the ship.
Saavik (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000263/): What?
David Marcus (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0125190/): He cheated.
Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): I changed the conditions of the test; got a commendation for original thinking. I don't like to lose.
Saavik (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000263/): Then you never faced that situation... faced death.
Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): I don't believe in the no-win scenario.



I hated the fact that he made it such an obvious cheat.

In the game star fleet academy the main rookie character does a similar cheat, iirc it allowed him to negotiate his way out.

uBD8hDWQrqU

[Nehkara]

The title has been confirmed as:

Star Trek Into Darkness

http://trekmovie.com/2012/09/07/exclusive-star-trek-sequel-title-confirmed/

[ken0042]

From the link:
However, "Into Darkness" certainly gives us a hint that this film could have a serious tone and perhaps darker theme than the 2009 Star Trek film.

Darker theme? Last movie they destroyed an entire planet; killing billions in the process.

[OutOfTheCube]

When are we gonna get a teaser trailer or something? The last movie had it's first full trailer come out with James Bond in November 08, can we expect something similar here?

[Yeah_Baby]

I'm tired of this cone of silence around this film. Even to the point where I just don't care about it.

[Nehkara]

I'm tired of this cone of silence around this film. Even to the point where I just don't care about it.

I would expect to see something soon.

[Yeah_Baby]

I would expect to see something soon.

I just don't know why JJ hates SDCC. He must hate building hyper for his movies.

[Inglewood Jack]

From the link:


Darker theme? Last movie they destroyed an entire planet; killing billions in the process.

You can always go darker. Killed a planet? Next time we blow up the galaxy...and then in Star Trek 3, the universe. Imagine the tears that Bryzgalov would shed.

[Traditional_Ale]

Gary Bettman is the antagonist of the new trek.

[Hemi-Cuda]

From the link:


Darker theme? Last movie they destroyed an entire planet; killing billions in the process.

i don't really know what they mean, but i like it. Star Trek has always been at it's best when the writers went to the well and had the characters go through some really mental ####. Picard being assimilated, the dominian war in DS9, and this:

K-YyL7X4CWw

[octothorp]

Come on, tribbles! You can't get darker than tribbles!

[Paladium]

From what I read, Cumberbatch will be Khan

[Yeah_Baby]

From what I read, Cumberbatch will be Khan

God I hope not.

[MrMastodonFarm]

I hope he plays Sherlock.

[Yeah_Baby]

I hope he plays Sherlock.

Or Smaug.

[Kipperriffic]

What?!!

*Mr Worf, Prepare a Photon Torpedo. Fire at JJAbrams on my command*

[Locke]

Come on, tribbles! You can't get darker than tribbles!

Indeed, you cannot.

[Knut]

I would love to see a Movie based around Q.

[Yeah_Baby]

I would love to see a Movie based around Q.

Q should never have appeared after 'All Good Things...'.

[Baxter Renegade]

I sure hope there's Jedi's in this one...

[endeavor]

Bahahaha

_lUl1Q8liT8

http://collider.com/star-trek-2-sequel-clip-teaser/200353/

[Flabbibulin]

Bahahaha

_lUl1Q8liT8

http://collider.com/star-trek-2-sequel-clip-teaser/200353/

hmmm, sure looks like one of those suits Chekov was wearing on Ceti Alpha V in "The Wrath of Khan"... hmmmm, must be a Khan reboot

Botany Bay???? Botany Bay!!! Oh no!

[SportsJunky]

Boldly going where only Christopher Nolan has gone before, the first nine minutes of J.J. Abrams’ Star Trek Into Darkness will debut on roughly 500 IMAX screens starting Dec. 14, Paramount Pictures announced Wednesday. The 3-D footage will play in front of IMAX exhibitions of The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey.

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/11/14/star-trek-into-darkness-imax-preview/

[getbak]

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/11/14/star-trek-into-darkness-imax-preview/
The first official trailer for Into Darkness will debut with the non-IMAX showings of The Hobbit, so if you want to see both the preview and the trailer on the big screen, you'll have to see The Hobbit twice.

[Kipperriffic]

Oh God they let Abrams near this again


Bj_1xhAhf3Y

Now Imagine their reaction to Star Trek 2!

Unacceptable! :mad:

[Nehkara]

Here is the official synopsis for Star Trek Into Darkness...

In Summer 2013, pioneering director J.J. Abrams will deliver an explosive action thriller that takes Star Trek Into Darkness.

When the crew of the Enterprise is called back home, they find an unstoppable force of terror from within their own organization has detonated the fleet and everything it stands for, leaving our world in a state of crisis.

With a personal score to settle, Captain Kirk leads a manhunt to a war-zone world to capture a one man weapon of mass destruction.

As our heroes are propelled into an epic chess game of life and death, love will be challenged, friendships will be torn apart, and sacrifices must be made for the only family Kirk has left: his crew.

[Nehkara]

Couple things to follow up:

- Doesn't look like Cumberbatch will be playing Khan. Should be interesting!

- I'm not sure if the people in this thread complaining about Abrams are being serious or not but Star Trek 2009 was one of my favourite Star Trek movies and importantly for the franchise, the most successful Star Trek movie (even adjusted for inflation). Abrams is kind of key to the whole thing, and I really really hope he completes the trilogy as director.

[Roast Beef]

"Unstoppable force of terror", "one man weapon of mass destruction" "friendships will be torn apart". Gary Mitchell?

[CaptainCrunch]

Chuck Norris as Gary Mitchell

[Yamer]

Couple things to follow up:

- Doesn't look like Cumberbatch will be playing Khan. Should be interesting!

Phew.

- I'm not sure if the people in this thread complaining about Abrams are being serious or not but Star Trek 2009 was one of my favourite Star Trek movies and importantly for the franchise, the most successful Star Trek movie (even adjusted for inflation). Abrams is kind of key to the whole thing, and I really really hope he completes the trilogy as director.

He did a fine job of effectively re-booting the franchise for a whole new generation, and I really enjoyed the last movie. I'm pretty confident with Abrams at the helm.

"Unstoppable force of terror", "one man weapon of mass destruction" "friendships will be torn apart". Gary Mitchell?

I figured it would be either Mitchell, Mudd, or the Telosians. Khan, IMO, is just too iconic to re-do/remake.

Mitchell would be a perfect fit.

[Roast Beef]

First poster has been released.
Warning: Large Image
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv251/SalvorHardin00/STID/Star-Trek-Into-Darkness-Teaser-Poster.jpg




Slightly smaller image
http://cdn.mos.totalfilm.com/images/s/star-trek-into-darkness-teaser-poster-revealed-122622-00-1000-100.jpg

[3 Justin 3]

Damn, dat timing. Was just about to go to the "Recommend a film" thread as I just watched Star Trek again (finished in 10 minutes ago).

Was going to post how it is a damn good film, I forgot how good it was.




Also, I was reading the wiki and apparently the trailer will be released with The Hobbit on December 14. In even better news, a 9 minute clip will be attached to the IMAX release of The Hobbit.

:D I hope the IMAX in Chinook shows it, the last time a movie promised that (Dark Knight was supposed to show the Superman teaser) they didn't show it.





Lastly, some troubling news about the new movie. Damon Lindelof is co-writing it.

[Insert Vader NOOOO! image here]

[SportsJunky]

That poster looks like it should be for The Matrix.

[Wormius]

Phew.



He did a fine job of effectively re-booting the franchise for a whole new generation, and I really enjoyed the last movie. I'm pretty confident with Abrams at the helm.



I figured it would be either Mitchell, Mudd, or the Telosians. Khan, IMO, is just too iconic to re-do/remake.

Mitchell would be a perfect fit.

Does it necessarily have to be a TOS character? A member of the Q continuum would be a good fit. Though I suppose there is debate over whether Gary Mitchell is a Q.

[Hemi-Cuda]

That poster looks like it should be for The Matrix.

i thought it looked more like a Batman poster

[Flabbibulin]

First poster has been released.
Warning: Large Image
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv251/SalvorHardin00/STID/Star-Trek-Into-Darkness-Teaser-Poster.jpg




Slightly smaller image
http://cdn.mos.totalfilm.com/images/s/star-trek-into-darkness-teaser-poster-revealed-122622-00-1000-100.jpg

Isn't that the "gherkin" in London on the bottom right of the poster? It has been suggested that the poster is a destroyed starfleet academy (in san fran), but maybe not.

Can't tell for sure, but the guy in poster kinda looks like it could be Christopher Pike

:bag:

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

It's definitely the Gherkin.
You can also see the London Eye on the left side.
I'm sure there are a few other London landmarks on there too.
The website is for .co.uk I'd be willing to bet that there is an American version of the poster with landmarks from San Fran, or New York or something.

[Yamer]

Does it necessarily have to be a TOS character? A member of the Q continuum would be a good fit. Though I suppose there is debate over whether Gary Mitchell is a Q.

No, but I read an interview quite a while back (circa 2010-2011) that said the next villain would be a character true to the original series and someone we would be familiar with.

[getbak]

It's definitely the Gherkin.
You can also see the London Eye on the left side.
I'm sure there are a few other London landmarks on there too.
The website is for .co.uk I'd be willing to bet that there is an American version of the poster with landmarks from San Fran, or New York or something.
If you go to the .com site, it's still London: http://www.startrekmovie.com/

You can change your country and it will take you to local versions of the site, but they all still have London.

[CaptainCrunch]

No, but I read an interview quite a while back (circa 2010-2011) that said the next villain would be a character true to the original series and someone we would be familiar with.

Harry Mudd

Or an invasion by tribbles

Set phasers on fluffy.

I'd like to see them redo the episode where the enterprise arrives on a planet that is populated by 20th century mobsters.

Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): [into communicator] Kirk to Enterprise.
Scott (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001150/): Enterprise. Scott here, sir.
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): [talking like a Chicago mobster] You got Krako on ice?
Scott (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001150/): Aye, he's here. Mad enough to chew neutronium, but behavin' himself.
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): OK, baby, cool him until I flag you.
Scott (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001150/): Flag me?
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): [normal voice] Keep him there until I send for him.
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): [as mobster] We're gonna make some old-style phone calls from this locale. So you, ah, locate the man at de other end o' de blower and give 'im a ride to this flop.
Scott (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001150/): What?
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): [normal voice] Find the man at the other end of the phone and transport him to these coordinates.
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): [back as mobster] Can do, sweetheart?
Scott (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001150/): [dubiously] Can do, Captain.


Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): [adopting a Chicago gangster accent] Now, you cooperate wid us and, uh, maybe we'll cut choo in for a piece o' dee action.
Spock (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000559/): A minuscule... A very small piece.
Jojo Krako (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0851861/): How much is that?
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): That's, uh...
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): [dropping the accent] We'll figure it out later.
Jojo Krako (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0851861/): Thought you guys had laws! No interference!
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): [accent on] Who's interferin'? We're... takin' over!
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/): [to Spock] Check?
Spock (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000559/): Right.

[Locke]

Everyone should just make peace with the fact that the villain is going to be Gorn.

Gorn and Kirk fighting their way through London and in the background James May will be fashioning a rudimentary Lathe.

Starfleet shall be saved!

[868904]

The guy in the poster looks like Cumberbatch and he appears to have pointy ears (romulan or Vulcan?).

[Locke]

The guy in the poster looks like Cumberbatch and he appears to have pointy ears (romulan or Vulcan?).

http://i.imgur.com/Bilg9.jpg

Why not Sybok?

[CaptainCrunch]

Nooooooooooooooo

[Locke]

Nooooooooooooooo

What do you have against Sybok? All he wanted to do was meet God and some other nonsensical crap.

[Wormius]

What do you have against Sybok? All he wanted to do was meet God and some other nonsensical crap.

Ah.. The unanswered question: what does god need with a starship?

[To Be Quite Honest]

There is no Sybok, only Zoul.

[ken0042]

As much as Star Trek V sucked- there is still the unanswered question about how he ended up banished to Nimbus III.

For fun, I've been considering the villians from TOS who would not have been impacted by the change in the timeline around the time of Kirk's birth:

- Khan
- Mudd
- The Gorn
- Trelaine/ Q
- V'ger or Nomad
- Possibly Charlie X
- Mirror Universe

I'm sure there's more- that's just off the top of my head.

[Locke]

Ah.. The unanswered question: what does god need with a starship?

Starships are kickass. Everyone loves starships.

[CaptainCrunch]

As much as Star Trek V sucked- there is still the unanswered question about how he ended up banished to Nimbus III.

For fun, I've been considering the villians from TOS who would not have been impacted by the change in the timeline around the time of Kirk's birth:

- Khan
- Mudd
- The Gorn
- Trelaine/ Q
- V'ger or Nomad
- Possibly Charlie X
- Mirror Universe

I'm sure there's more- that's just off the top of my head.

What about the bum heads that abducted Pike?

[Sr. Mints]

The trailer. (http://t.co/PA0URyTa)

edit:

diP-o_JxysA

[Roast Beef]

Japanese version of the trailer with some interesting extra footage at the end
BrHlQUXFzfw

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Blondie looks familiar...

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110408221516/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/9/93/Dehner-nohit.jpg/185px-Dehner-nohit.jpg

[Wormius]

So I wonder then if this will include the "creation" of Khan and his crew to fight this villain, rather than Khan actually being the villain.

[ken0042]

I sure hope not. Assuming we are now in an alternate timeline to TOS, that timeline skewed from TOS at the time of Kirk's birth. Khan was a product of late 20th century genetic engineering, so he would still be in stasis on that ship that is adrift.

However that does give me an idea for another movie- Kirk et al end up going back in time to prevent WWIII from happening in the 1990's. (Which would explain why they talk about it in the 1960s TV show, but it never happened for us.)

[Yeah_Baby]

Japanese version of the trailer with some interesting extra footage at the end
BrHlQUXFzfw

"You've given these people everything."

"Not everything, not yet. "

[Nyah]

I can't wait for this. That teaser gave me goosebumps!

[FlameOn]

Look great, I like the reduction in lens flare :)

So it looks like the villain is going to be Khan?
There are a few nods to Wrath of Khan in the trailer already. There's the whole "For I have returned, to have my vengeance" and the whole Kirk/Spock separated by glass about to die bit.

[d_phaneuf]

Abrams knows how to put together a great trailer

[icecube]

For the 80 millionth time the villain is NOT Khan. It's likely Gary Mitchell.

[Locke]

Dammit Cumberbatch, get back to Sherlock!

That said, the villain is clearly Sybok.

[CaptainCrunch]

So I wonder then if this will include the "creation" of Khan and his crew to fight this villain, rather than Khan actually being the villain.

Khan was never the villian in TWOK. Kirk was clearly the villian.

[OutOfTheCube]

If it was Gary Mitchell, wouldn't they just say? I mean, it's not a super big surprise or big deal for it to be him.

Maybe it's a young future evil Picard who had something terrible happen and goes back in time to take vengeance. Boom. That voice at the start does sound like Patrick Stewart quite a bit...

[Locke]

If it was Gary Mitchell, wouldn't they just say? I mean, it's not a super big surprise or big deal for it to be him.

Maybe it's a young future evil Picard who had something terrible happen and goes back in time to take vengeance. Boom. That voice at the start does sound like Patrick Stewart quite a bit...

First of all, it isnt going to be Gary Mitchell. Quite honestly, thats a little low-key for the average fans to whom this movie is also pandering.

He did say that he was 'coming back for his revenge' so I'm going to say that it's Young Pike from the future who has come back to destroy civilization for taking away his ship and for making him Bruce Greenwood.

Followed by 90 minutes of gratuitous and sweaty Greenwood on Cumberbatch 'Sybokian' action.

[FlameOn]

If it was Gary Mitchell, wouldn't they just say? I mean, it's not a super big surprise or big deal for it to be him.

Maybe it's a young future evil Picard who had something terrible happen and goes back in time to take vengeance. Boom. That voice at the start does sound like Patrick Stewart quite a bit...

Or maybe a clone? :bag:

[Puppet Guy]

Or maybe a clone? :bag:

oh god, not Shinzon!

[Locke]

Its definitely Khan.

Gary Mitchell wasnt British. Neither was Khan. But the man in the poster is wearing leather and we all know that Khan had a thing for leather. Particularly 'Corinthian' and 'rich.'

We also know that Khan loved Chrysler New Yorkers, but they stopped manufacturing New Yorkers in 1996 and the Gherkin didnt begin being built until 2001.

Only 5 years separate the construction of the Gherkin and the demise of the Chrysler New Yorker, it could be that this is the period of time when Khan was being genetically engineered and when he emerged from his tank/pod/coffin he was released into a society that no longer had Chrysler New Yorkers with rich Corinthian leather.

It is from here where his rage stems. He left the world alone for a few measly short years to become a superhuman and instill a little order and how do they repay him? By eliminating the production of his favourite automobile?

This is clearly a slight that Khan cannot abide and so the world must pay for it's transgressions and be crushed under his boot heels! A society cannot operate without the use of Chrysler New Yorkers! Such a fine and distinguished automobile cannot be allowed to simply slip quietly into that good night.

Khan feels betrayed that the world used his absence during genetic super-mutation to rid the globe of his favourite car and now hes coming back for vengeance.

[Puppet Guy]

^^ it's really the absence of Maxwell House coffee in the future that'll set him off.

[worth]

That trailer just looked like a generic Michael Bay action movie to me. not exactly what I was expecting in a Star Trek trailer. Especially after JJ's first Star Trek film. Hopefully I am surprised when the film actually comes out but that doesn't make me very hopeful.

[d_phaneuf]

http://io9.com/5966160/all-the-clues-and-easter-eggs-from-the-star-trek-into-darkness-teaser-trailer

[Hemi-Cuda]

http://io9.com/5966160/all-the-clues-and-easter-eggs-from-the-star-trek-into-darkness-teaser-trailer

well Cumberbatch is wearing a Starfleet uniform in a few scenes, so that should all but confirm that Gary Mitchell is the villain

[Locke]

Garth of Izar. Never even thought of him.

Star trek should just get back to its roots of time travel and chasing Lursa and B'Etor across half of the known galaxy.

[d_phaneuf]

well Cumberbatch is wearing a Starfleet uniform in a few scenes, so that should all but confirm that Gary Mitchell is the villain

ya I didn't think it was possible, but that, plus this http://i.imgur.com/G033d.jpg

linking because it's a big image

[Wormius]

I sure hope not. Assuming we are now in an alternate timeline to TOS, that timeline skewed from TOS at the time of Kirk's birth. Khan was a product of late 20th century genetic engineering, so he would still be in stasis on that ship that is adrift.

However that does give me an idea for another movie- Kirk et al end up going back in time to prevent WWIII from happening in the 1990's. (Which would explain why they talk about it in the 1960s TV show, but it never happened for us.)

I think a lot of the time line of Space Seed needs to be thrown out. There is just no way the whole eugenics and Botany Bay exile could happen before the events of First Contact.

If they were willing to throw that out, they could conceivably use the opportunity of a villain they need to expunge as the catalyst for creating Khan. Unless all of the whole talk of Khan is just a red herring, and he won't be in the film.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Blondie looks familiar...

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110408221516/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/9/93/Dehner-nohit.jpg/185px-Dehner-nohit.jpg

I think it's Alice Eve, from "She's out of my League" and Entourage(last few eps, the british chick Vinnie falls for.)

[Yeah_Baby]

I think it's Alice Eve, from "She's out of my League" and Entourage(last few eps, the british chick Vinnie falls for.)

Well yes. But no. The screen cap is from 2nd Pilot for Star Trek. He's implying that Alice Eve is playing Elizabeth Dehner.

[ken0042]

And whatever you do- do not click on the link at Memory Alpha for her to see what she looks like today.

[/cantsayididntwarnyou]

[3 Justin 3]

Dammit Cumberbatch, get back to Sherlock!

That said, the villain is clearly Sybok.

I've got some bad news, because of Cumberbatch and Freeman both doing publicity for their movies (Star Trek and The Hobbit), production for the 3rd season of Sherlock has been delayed 3-5 months (I forget exactly), and we won't get a 3rd season until Christmas next year. :(

The trailer looks good. Can't wait to see the 9 minute attached footage of Star Trek when I go see The Hobbit in IMAX.

[Sr. Mints]

New image from Star Trek 2 which should answer any questions once and for all about Cumberpatch's role . . .

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j389/srmints/startrek2.jpg


I know what you're thinking: Get a life, Dylan.

[CaptainCrunch]

A snuck out trailer of the new movie. Sorry the quality is bad

iauuuhpSfRQ

[Yeah_Baby]

Star Trek: Into Darkness villain revealed?


Obviously Possible Spoilers (http://trekmovie.com/2012/12/10/new-image-from-star-trek-into-darkness-features-cumberbatch-villain-w-kirk-spock/)

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

As much as Star Trek V sucked- there is still the unanswered question about how he ended up banished to Nimbus III.

For fun, I've been considering the villians from TOS who would not have been impacted by the change in the timeline around the time of Kirk's birth:

- Khan
- Mudd
- The Gorn
- Trelaine/ Q
- V'ger or Nomad
- Possibly Charlie X
- Mirror Universe

I'm sure there's more- that's just off the top of my head.
Add:
Apollo
Doomsday Machine
Zephram Cochrane (not a villain - at least in the TOS)
Those disembodied minds that the crew temporarily volunteered their bodies to
Gary Seven (also not a villain)

[CaptainCrunch]

Kang
That Romulan that was played by Spocks dad in the original series Mark Lenard.

BTW that was one of the outright best epidsodes of the OS made

[Locke]

Its totally Sybok. Knew it.

[GreenLantern]

Slightly new trailer:

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/12/star-trek-trailer-2/

[d_phaneuf]

really like when io9 does this

http://io9.com/5969114/shot+by+shot-breakdown-of-all-the-plot-details-hidden-in-the-new-star-trek-into-darkness-trailer/gallery/1

shot by shot breakdown of the trailer

[Coach]

Ign does something similar with rewind theatre

[Puppet Guy]

Benedict Cumberbatch and Alice Eve talk about their roles, Obviously, some spoilers...or are they???:

LHRJoJojn3M

[dammage79]

There is a ton of jumping off really tall things in that last preview.

[Flabbibulin]

Kang
That Romulan that was played by Spocks dad in the original series Mark Lenard.

BTW that was one of the outright best epidsodes of the OS made

You mean episode 14 "Balance of Terror"... Although I cant prove it, I honestly didn't need to look that up.... :bag:

My favourite episode was always "Devil in the Dark" for some reason. That's the one with the Horta, the crazy meatball looking creature.

[Daradon]

Just saw the extended preview at The Hobbit tonight. Looks awesome! And I'm not even a Star Trek fan, at all.

[Nyah]

Here's some screen shots:

http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii588/ness_co21/ST_zps93c57808.jpg

http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii588/ness_co21/st6_zps1ff8e89f.jpg

http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii588/ness_co21/st3_zpsd42e59e8.jpg

http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii588/ness_co21/st5_zps1675636e.jpg

http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii588/ness_co21/st2_zps345cff2e.jpg

http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii588/ness_co21/st4_zpsfd4f08fc.jpg

[GreenLantern]

J.J. Abrams, you're alright..

Eight days ago, a user on Reddit (http://www.reddit.com) (via Yahoo! (http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-talk/j-j-abrams-grants-trekkie-dying-wish-see-000643743.html)) posted a story about his dear friend, a lifelong Trekkie named Dan, who has been diagnosed with two forms of cancer.]It didn't take long for this online post to catch fire and it eventually got the attention of Star Trek (http://www.superherohype.com/heroes/star-trek) director J.J. Abrams. As a result, Abrams set up a screening for Dan and his wife. The couple were hoping to see the prologue but were delighted to find out they were getting to see the entire film.http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=98493


Different article telling the same story:

http://www.movieweb.com/news/j-j-abrams-makes-star-trek-into-darkness-wish-come-true-for-dying-fan

[Komskies]

Saw the preview before the Hobbit as well. It's too bad Spock dies.

[Daradon]

Saw the preview before the Hobbit as well. It's too bad Spock dies.

Well if he doesn't die they can't search for him.

[d_phaneuf]

the more I see of Cumberbatch the more I think he could be an all time villain

not surprising because of how great he is as Sherlock

[SportsJunky]

The new trailer that is being shown attached to the Oz movie:
RxZcxkFZZP0

[Sr. Mints]

Can't wait!

"Punch it" still sound so dumb, though.

[GreenLantern]

Is you ready?

yhz4A5BCMAA

[d_phaneuf]

I have a good feeling about the guys transporting Cumberbatch at 1:42

[trackercowe]

Fwiw, there is a special advance IMAX screening on the 17th for a "fan sneak peak". Probably just a bunch of usual trekkie fanfare, but I didn't mind spending 1000 Scene points on it.

[mykalberta]

Alice Eve from "She's Out of My League" is in the movie. That alone makes me want to see the movie.

Star Trek means I will go see the movie.

The fact that the first one was so good means this might be one of the few movies I go to the theatre to see twice.

[Puppet Guy]

I have a good feeling about the guys transporting Cumberbatch at 1:42

I got a good feeling at 1:36.:w00t:

[GreenLantern]

Alice Eve from "She's Out of My League" is in the movie. That alone makes me want to see the movie.

Star Trek means I will go see the movie.

The fact that the first one was so good means this might be one of the few movies I go to the theatre to see twice.


http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/star-trek-into-darkness-alice-eva-panties.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxpfttmPEq1rn95k2o1_400.gif

Good for her for all of those hours of dedication and eating right. Takes a lot of work to look that good.

[Yamer]

So let me get this straight....

After all the speculation that it was going to be Gary Mitchell, and after posters "confirming" it was Khan....it is neither?

Not disappointed, just found it kind of humorous.

[Kjesse]

There is a site with a complete plot synopsis. Having been unable to wait I read it. Not sure what to think, pretty shocking in some respects. Kind of a re-tread in others. I'll be going to see it anyway. Overall seems most think the previous movie was better. Time will tell.

[To Be Quite Honest]

http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/star-trek-into-darkness-alice-eva-panties.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxpfttmPEq1rn95k2o1_400.gif

Good for her for all of those hours of dedication and eating right. Takes a lot of work to look that good.


Now don't get me wrong, I'd still munch on her ####### until she came but she is far too skinny. I needs a little more cushin' for my pushin'. Cap' knows what I'm talking about!

[Captain_Obvious]

I had the opportunity to see it today. There's definitely some surprises in it that have been well kept.

Some great action scenes and once again they do a great job keeping enough tributes to the original characters and making it exciting enough for new audiences.

Cumberbatch is great and of the regular cast I thought Quinto's performance stood out as there was some great development of Spock's character. Pine was good also but I still maintain that's a very tough role to reprise.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

How did you see it so early?

[Captain_Obvious]

Here is some interesting stuff from the cast from a couple weeks ago in Vegas:

(No spoilers)

lxDc23NyqDk

[OutOfTheCube]

Just got back from the IMAX fan sneak show. I loved it!

Some very well kept secrets. The trailers are sneakily edited. Lots of great callbacks.

The action is enormous and exciting and it doesn't take it's foot off the gas for two hours. The 3D looked stupendous on the IMAX screen! Love the dialogue and play between characters. Just a great movie! A worthy follow up that I feel surpasses the reboot.

Now give me a new TV series dammit!

[KTrain]

I saw it as well and it is easily the best Star Trek movie.

See it in 3D if you can. It was impressively used.

See it soon because I don't know how long some of the awesome surprises will remain a secret.

[trackercowe]

Just got home from Star Trek ITD and it was very good. Better than Iron Man, and on par with the first movie. Cumberbatch as the villain was a major step up over Bana/Nero in the last movie which I felt was the only real weak point in the last movie.

Reactions from what I am reading seem somewhat mixed, and a lot of hardcore Trekkies seem to loathe what Abrams is doing to the series: which is especially true with his comments that he never liked Star Trek as a kid. I'm not going to lie, I am pretty much in the same boat with him. While I do enjoy some of the old movies, the show was before my time, and I was never keen on watching a show I felt might seem dated. But as I said some of the movies were good (others not), and this one would rank among the best.

Some parts were a tad predictable, and perhaps there were a few plotholes (nothing too outrageous though). The crowd seemed to enjoy it as well, as they cheered and applauded many of the events that occurred in the movie.

One thing I love about Abrams is that he spends time focusing on each of the characters, and doesn't just have the main leads (Kirk and Spock) hog all the spotlight. Much like with Lost, Abrams and his team does excellent work in developing the entire cast, so Scotty, McCoy, Sulu, Chekov, and Uhura all play intricate roles in the movie in their own way.

Then of course there was Cumberbatch who will become a major star going forward if his role as the villain is any indication.

If you go in looking for flaws you may find a few, and end up being disappointed. However, my only expectations going in were from the last movie, so I was quite happy with the result. Easily superior to Iron Man 3, and sets a high standard for Man of Steel if it wants to pass it.

Overall I'd give it a 4/5 for now, pushing 4.5/5 even. Oh and the 3d was spectacular like Cube says, just the perfect amount really.

I can't wait to see what direction this has for the third move (and past that). I just hope Abrams can work on both this and Star Wars, as Star Trek is probably the better series going forward based on the two movies.

[username]

It was an excellent movie and I really enjoyed it.

I wonder how long it will take for the masses to come into this thread and tear this great movie apart? It's Sci Fi people!

[OutOfTheCube]

There was only one reference to past movies that I thought felt a little forced...

Really, don't click if you haven't seen the movieWhen Spock goes KHAAAAAAAAAN! Put probably just because that particular moment has been satirized so much in the last 30 years

[KTrain]

There was only one reference to past movies that I thought felt a little forced...

Yeah, maybe a little forced but...

It was a fun nod to the past and helped to show how Spock went from sad to pissed off.

[cDnStealth]

Just got back from seeing the film. I can honestly say that out of all the films I have been excited and hyped about seeing over the past year, Into Darkness is the only one that met/exceeded my expectations. Great movie. I enjoyed it as much as the first and perhaps even more.

[Coach]

It was an excellent movie and I really enjoyed it.

I wonder how long it will take for the masses to come into this thread and tear this great movie apart? It's Sci Fi people!

Warp speed is impossible. This movie sucks. :ph34r:

[photon]

I guess I should use spoiler tags for now?

I simply cannot believe that they kept the villain's identity under wraps. That's completely outstanding in today's information society.

Overall I liked it, lots of fun and focus on character and good action. I think the writing was a little suspect. It was as good as the writing in the first one, but I think having the villain they did really required another level up if they wanted to do it justice. Cumberbatch I think has the chops, but just compare his version to the original, and it's a shadow I think. I just don't think there's enough sympathy for him to give him depth, and look at the writing, not just for the original's dialog, but for the whole plot to give really make him an epic villain. It's just more.. I don't know.. cerebral? This version seems too flat and plain.

So in that respect I'm disappointed, not that it was a bad film, I thought it was a great film, better than the first one. I'm just disappointed that they burned the one of the best villains in Trek if not all sci-fi and I think it could have been a lot better. I guess he's just frozen so he could come back, probably after 4 more movies when the franchise is stagnating again they'll bring him back :D

A little more consequences would be nice as well, all we get is a speech by Kirk at the end, this kind of thing should be tearing Starfleet in apart with factions and people choosing sides etc. Unless building Dreadnought class ships is something one guy acting alone can hide in a budget I guess.

The whole Spock/Kirk inversion I thought was very cool and enjoyed it, though I can see where harder core Trek fans will be put off by it. I think it plays quite well on the whole parallel universe aspect of the reboot.

I knew they'd use the blood to revive him the instant I saw the clear radiation door when they walked up to it, so I was a bit disappointed they didn't continue on with the next one being a "Search for Kirk", though I guess that could have been over the top. But as Old Spock said, defeating him came at a cost, and this time the cost was just random buildings and civilians, so it didn't feel epic enough.

So overall it was fun, I thought it lacked the gravitas it could have had by putting it in a bigger context (again back to the original, the Klingon threat meant more because it wasn't just a line of dialog, it was key to the plot), and I'm disappointed they used up the best villain in a good but not great role, and I blame the writing. But I still enjoyed it, glad to see good Trek movies and hope they continue on this path and get better.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Saw it today, liked it even better than the first. One question though, was there anything after the credits? Didn't think about it until we already left

[Wormius]

Saw it tonight in 3D. Very well done. One thing I thought was funny was those primitive people in the beginning all looked like Screech from "Saved by the Bell".



The aspect that bothered me was for most of movie I felt this anticipation that the genetically modified crew would be utilized somehow, but they never were. I thought it would havr made more sense yo unleash those guys onto Kronos and let them kill of the Klingons, like a trojan horse of sorts, as opposed to just killing them.

Why not just kill Khan and use the blood from one of Khan's guys in stasis?

.. And how did they end up back at Earth so quickly? I thought Marcus caught up with them very quickly after the Enterprise tried to flee from Kronos.

[trackercowe]

Saw it tonight in 3D. Very well done. One thing I thought was funny was those primitive people in the beginning all looked like Screech from "Saved by the Bell".



The aspect that bothered me was for most of movie I felt this anticipation that the genetically modified crew would be utilized somehow, but they never were. I thought it would havr made more sense yo unleash those guys onto Kronos and let them kill of the Klingons, like a trojan horse of sorts, as opposed to just killing them.

Why not just kill Khan and use the blood from one of Khan's guys in stasis?

.. And how did they end up back at Earth so quickly? I thought Marcus caught up with them very quickly after the Enterprise tried to flee from Kronos.



Screw it anyone who checks this thread should be prepared for spoiler talk by now.

To your first point that seems to be the main "plot hole" many people are bringing up. While it may not be fully explained, it's reasonable to assume that they can't be certain that the rest of Khan's crew will have similar "abilities" as him. So why at all risk Kirk's life when Khan is still at large? They also would have had to unfreeze one of his crew members and keep Kirk frozen for longer, so capturing Khan works there as well. Then of course there is the fact that Vulcan's do not kill, which is something they really could have stated. So even without the cure, it's unlikely Spock would have ended up killing Khan.

As to your second point that was an issue I had as well. It seemed Marcus caught up with them midway to Earth, and the Enterprise didn't go back to warp speed again prior to Khan shooting down the ship. So I agree there was an issue there.

They also didn't bother explaining who or what was sabotaging the Enterprise which caused it to breakdown during their mission to Qo'noS. I knew right off the bat that Marcus was up to no good, but I also expected Alice Eve to have been on his plan, and that she was the reason for that issue, but no dice there.

[LockedOut]

Saw it today, liked it even better than the first. One question though, was there anything after the credits? Didn't think about it until we already left
I stayed till the end of the credits and there was nothing.

[Caged Great]

I watched it tonight.

It was pretty good. Exceeded my expectations.

Also, you have to remember that in the original series, Khan appeared in an episode of the show itself, (which is why he was stranded on that moon at the beginning of the 2nd movie)

This movie is more in keeping with the tv episode rather than the 2nd movie, so it's all good.

[OutOfTheCube]

I tended to think that detonating 72 photon torpedoes INSIDE a ship all at once would've completely incinerated it, too. Only real problem I had with it :P

And how was Admiral Marcus able to transport his daughter out if the Enterprise when they still had their shields up?

Just little nerdy semantic things. I still loved it :)

[CaptainCrunch]

Nobody is ever ever going to touch Ricardo Montabalms portrayal of khan

pKnttwx0P6I

And the fury, grief and blind need for vengeance in Star Trek 2

Uhu5V8VRxFU

[CaptainCrunch]

The Khan in the new movie is a different Khan, though he shouldn't have been effected by the time line shift, he just is different.

[Wormius]

The Khan in the new movie is a different Khan, though he shouldn't have been effected by the time line shift, he just is different.

I didn't bother to check this, but does new Khan's time line fit with Space Seed? I am not sure if his 300 years old worked out to the time of the Eugenic Wars as specified in Space Seed.

Edit: okay, looks like the age of Khan and the crew fit with the Space Seed time frame. If the current date is 2259, that would make them about 37 yrs old during the Eugenic Wars that ended in 1996.

[CaptainCrunch]

I didn't bother to check this, but does new Khan's time line fit with Space Seed? I am not sure if his 300 years old worked out to the time of the Eugenic Wars as specified in Space Seed.

Edit: okay, looks like the age of Khan and the crew fit with the Space Seed time frame. If the current date is 2259, that would make them about 37 yrs old during the Eugenic Wars that ended in 1996.


Yeah it does fit, just a different person found him and the Botney Bay

[Swarly]

I guess I should use spoiler tags for now?

I simply cannot believe that they kept the villain's identity under wraps. That's completely outstanding in today's information society.
.....

I didn't think they did keep it under wraps. I had known who the villain was going in... maybe I just heard a rumor about it, went along with it and turned out to be right. There was no big surprise or twist for me :(

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Thoroughly entertaining movie from start to end. I am a bit confused about something though now that I've had to think about it. I think I've pieced most of it together except for one thing. I realize there is a spoiler tag on the op title now,11 but I'll cover this in case:


Why was Khan out and about in the world in the first place? Why not just free his crew and take Marcus on dead on? I didn't quite catch how the falling out between them happened.

[Yeah_Baby]

I saw it as well and it is easily the best Star Trek movie.



You're right, it was essentially a remake the best Star Trek movie.

[Yeah_Baby]

JJTrek just doesn't have any emotional depth to it

[St. Pats]

This one just wasn't as good as the first reboot. I found the story to be underdeveloped. It was just too matter of fact. There was plently of good action but no change of pace to make it seem more dramatic. The interaction between the characters was not as good. Bones in particular seemed left out. Sort of all sacrificed to jam in more action scenes is how it seemed to me.

I found it just hmmm or meh.

[KTrain]

You're right, it was essentially a remake the best Star Trek movie.

No, this was better than Wrath of Khan.

But then again, I've always enjoyed Undiscovered Country more than Wrath. Khan has always looked ridiculous to me. But that's a product of the 60s and 80s costumes/hair.

[CaptainCrunch]

No, this was better than Wraith of Khan.

But then again, I've always enjoyed Undiscovered Country more than Wraith. Khan has always looked ridiculous to me. But that's a product of the 60s and 80s costumes/hair.

I would take Wrath of Khan over the current version easily. It was also the rare movie where the protagonist and Antagonist never meet face to face.

If you can get by the 80's uber mullets the acting in the original WOK was just far better. Montabalm was the perfect Captain Ahab chasing his white whale. Shatner for the most part put away a lot of his cheese tendencies for this movie. Kirstie Alley was excellent in her role and it showed as she was replaced in the next movie by a not near as good Robin Curtis.

You really gained some sympathy for Khan as a former strong leader who lead his people to hell for the simplest of reasons, which was revenge.

To me there was just a feeling of powerful emotion in the ST2 movie that I didn't feel in the new one.

[KTrain]

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Wrath. There were a lot of great, emotional moments. I think a lot of the Khan hate in the new movie is because the actor/character is loved so much from the show and the movie. But Wrath had just as many plot holes as Into Darkness. There was also a lot of overacting from Montabalm and Shatner.

As a Star Trek fan I know Khan is suposed to be the pinnacle of the films but it's 5th for me.

1. Into Darkness
2. First Contact
3. Undiscovered Country
4. Star Trek (2009)
5. Wrath of Khan

[photon]

I thought I was alone in liking the Undiscovered Country!

[jammies]

They must have had warp One Billion to get from the Klingon neutral zone to just beside the Moon in about 2 minutes of real-time.

[dammage79]

Undiscovered Country was one of my favorites as well.

[troutman]

Warp Drive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp_drive

Exact velocities were only given in the Voyager episode "The 37's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_37%27s)" where Tom Paris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Paris) describes Voyager's velocity at warp factor 9.9 (under the new warp table formula) as being about 4 billion miles per second, which would be about 21,500 times the speed of light (although Voyager cannot maintain this velocity for very long). Voyager was about 70,000 light-years away from home. Simple calculation reveals that it would take "just" about 3.3 years to travel such distance.

[CaptainCrunch]

Undiscovered Coutry was a great movie, and continued the curse of the odd numbered movies. Christopher Plumber was an amazing Klingon, they finally adressed the inevitable end or retirement of the original enterprise crew as well. The movie chugged a lot during the prison scene.

In terms of what liked and didn't like

Star Trek TMP - A movie that was incredibly smart, but incredibly dull. The plot line was very good with man having to deal with his actions in the Universe, we'd see that again later on. The pacing was very slow with a lot of really long shots out the view screen. The interaction between the crew wasn't really there, especially between Bones and Spoke. Persia Khombata (sp?) was gorgeous but couldn't act. There wasn't enough actual action. Exposed us to the new Klingons. I loved the end line when Sulu asks for a course and Kirk waves his hand and says "Out there, that away, and then sinks back into his chair"

Star Trek 2 TWOK - probably the best villain in a returning Khan hell bent for vengeance over the loss of his wife. Khan and Shatner really chewed up the scenery. We also saw the return of the informality between crew members which made the original show great. The death scene for Spock was a shocker and kirk desperately trying to touch his friend through the glass was awesomely well done. Khan line" He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's flames before I give him up!"

Star Trek 3 The search for Spock.- Wasn't a great movie by any stretch. Christopher Lloyd and Dan from Night Court chewed up the scenery as Klingons. The moment when Kirk's son is killed and Kirk falls back muttering "You killed my son", it set the stage for Star Trek 6. It was like a finale when the Enterprise blew up and spiraled into Flame with Kirk watching from the surface.

Star Trek 4 - The Voyage home - Very strong movie that focused on the crew, and had some great humor in it. The whole fish out of water scenario played out incredibly well, and all of the cast members shared screen time. Checkov was the unintentional star (Can you tell me where they keep the nuclear wessels". A bit of a repeat of the first movie with the probe returning and creating a consequence for man's previous history.

Star Trek 5 - The final frontier. A terrible movie where the main characters basically gave up their dignity for humor. Spock gets brain washed, McCoy murders his father, Uhura does the fan dance 20 years too late. Scotty bangs his head on a bulk head knocking himself out. The villian was incredibly weak, and somehow they made a Klingon boring. The premise was terrible and Kirk was overly heroic. The only good scene was really the end camping scene. But it had one great line "Excuse me, what does God need with a starship?"

Star Trek 6 - The undiscovered country - Great movie and even numbered. The cast has been allowed to grey out and they are looking forward to retirement after one last mission. Kirk shows his hatred of the Klingons. Spock uses the Vulcan proverb "Only Nixon could go to China" The guest actors were exceptional, from Plumber to Warner to Kim Catrell. The mind rape scene by Spock was out of character. Plumber gleefully yelling Shakespear while blasting the enterprise. Sulu finally gets his own ship. "Cry Havoc and let loose the dogs of way"

Star Trek TNG Generations - Not a great movie with what I would consider to be a bad plotline. The only thing that made it watchable was Malcolm McDowell who is a great villian in everything that he does and called Luke Skywalker an a$$hole in Wing Commander. They destroyed the Enterprise in the same way that Hulk Hogan destroyed Barry Horrowitz.

Star Trek First Contact - Decent movie that went a long way in wrecking the Borg as a scary entity by getting rid of the hive mind and introducing a queen. This was the start of the focus on Picard and Data as most of the other characters had little to do. Patrick Stewart was ok but I just couldn't equate him to Ahab like the movie tried to force us too. Making Cochrane incredibly flawed went against Canon though.

Star Trek Insurrection - Terrible movie with humor around Riker's beard and Worf's zit. The truly cringeworthy Data/Picard sing along, terrible villians an incredibly annoying sub villian. Riker flying and fighting the enterprise with a flight controller joy stick. This movie was worse then the Star Wars Christmas special and there was nothing good about it except

Star Trek -Nemesis - This movie should have been burned instead of released, Insurrection was bad, this was worse. Tom Hardy was valient with a bad character (Can I touch your hair,and then rape Troi) Data does the ultimate sacrifice which saddens fans who actually cared about Fat Data at that point, but then gets slapped in the face later when he's resurrected in B4 (Really?). And whoever designs star ships in the future. Why do Transporters always go first, the Ventral shields are thinner then a latex condom, and its a bad idea to put an open Thaloron or whatever radiation generator on the bridge. Terrible brutal movie.

Star Trek reboot - Remarkable for the performances, though the villain and his motivations weren't all that great, they were trying to out Khan Khan. Still wan't a huge fan of Beverly Hills 9021-Kirk. The stranding of Kirk on an ice planet with no weapon was incredibly stupid writing when you have a brig with force fields and all that crap. It was good to see Nimoy playing older spock though.

My order of favorites

Star Trek 2
Star Trek4
Star Trek 6
Into Darkness
First Contact
Star Trek Abrams
Star Trek 3
Star Trek tmp
Star Trek Generations
The 70's cartoon
Klingon Academy video game
Galaxy quest
Star Fleet Academy video game
half a dozenfan based movies
Star Trek the porn parady
Star Trek 5
Insurrection
Nemisis

[WhiteTiger]

I watched the movie this afternoon. Not too bad, as far as action flicks go. I guess I'd have gotten more out of it if I'd seen Wrath of Khan.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Meh.

Less lens flares this time, that was nice.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Thoroughly entertaining movie from start to end. I am a bit confused about something though now that I've had to think about it. I think I've pieced most of it together except for one thing. I realize there is a spoiler tag on the op title now,11 but I'll cover this in case:


Why was Khan out and about in the world in the first place? Why not just free his crew and take Marcus on dead on? I didn't quite catch how the falling out between them happened.




Is anyone able to explain this to me? Still scratching my head over this a little bit.

[Kjesse]

Is anyone able to explain this to me? Still scratching my head over this a little bit.

Marcus found/de-iced Khan specifically to enlist him to help build the Vengeance. Marcus believes war with the Klingons is inevitable. He needed Khan to build the ship/militarize starfleet. Then Marcus discarded him and covered the tracks of what he had done. What exactly Marcus promised, I'm not sure, but likely the return of his crew.

In revenge, Khan blew up the starfleet archives, where the alteration of the databanks happened.

Something like that.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Marcus found/de-iced Khan specifically to enlist him to help build the Vengeance. Marcus believes war with the Klingons is inevitable. He needed Khan to build the ship/militarize starfleet. Then Marcus discarded him and covered the tracks of what he had done. What exactly Marcus promised, I'm not sure, but likely the return of his crew.

In revenge, Khan blew up the starfleet archives, where the alteration of the databanks happened.

Something like that.

And that's where I get muddled up. How do you "discard" Khan? Did Marcus just drive into the woods, open the door and say "You're free, boy!" and Khan pranced away happily?

Or maybe that really is the explanation. Marcus tried to dump Khan, but then Khan broke free to regroup and attack the facility again? I suppose I could accept that explanation.

[CaptainCrunch]

Marcus found/de-iced Khan specifically to enlist him to help build the Vengeance. Marcus believes war with the Klingons is inevitable. He needed Khan to build the ship/militarize starfleet. Then Marcus discarded him and covered the tracks of what he had done. What exactly Marcus promised, I'm not sure, but likely the return of his crew.

In revenge, Khan blew up the starfleet archives, where the alteration of the databanks happened.

Something like that.

Which is funny, because in Space Seed Khan didn't know anything about Star Ship technology or weapons or tactics, he was a global leader not an engineer.

Even in wrath of Khan he didn't understand star ship operations.

The time line shift wouldn't have changed it.

[KTrain]

Meh.

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/50-cent-picard-gif.gif

[OutOfTheCube]

Is anyone able to explain this to me? Still scratching my head over this a little bit.

Khan himself explained it pretty well...

Marcus found the Botany Bay and woke up Khan only. He coerced him into helping design/build the Vengeance and it's weapons by withholding his crew from them and threatening to kill them. Khan eventually attempted to smuggle them out in those special photon torpedoes, but he was discovered and was forced to flee. Assuming that Marcus had murdered his crew, he began his vengeance on Starfleet, which is where the movie begins.

[FlameOn]

Which is funny, because in Space Seed Khan didn't know anything about Star Ship technology or weapons or tactics, he was a global leader not an engineer.

Even in wrath of Khan he didn't understand star ship operations.

The time line shift wouldn't have changed it.

Is it possible it's another one of Khan's family, an engineer perhaps? They never explicitly said Khan's first name in Into the Darkness (well old Spock did, but he wasn't really involved) There's the age difference too when you think about it.

[getbak]

Is it possible it's another one of Khan's family, an engineer perhaps? They never explicitly said Khan's first name in Into the Darkness (well old Spock did, but he wasn't really involved) There's the age difference too when you think about it.
Assuming it's the same character as the one played by Montalban in the OS, Khan is his first name. His full name is Khan Noonien Singh.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Khan himself explained it pretty well...

Marcus found the Botany Bay and woke up Khan only. He coerced him into helping design/build the Vengeance and it's weapons by withholding his crew from them and threatening to kill them. Khan eventually attempted to smuggle them out in those special photon torpedoes, but he was discovered and was forced to flee. Assuming that Marcus had murdered his crew, he began his vengeance on Starfleet, which is where the movie begins.

Thanks. I'm sure he explained this all while in the brig. But I guess I was just too occupied staring into his dreamy eyes...

[octothorp]

My confusion is what Marcus was planning with the torpedoes. He knew that the fuel chambers had been replaced by cryogenic tubes, right? So what did he think was going to happen if they were launched? They'd just sort of splutter and then drift haphazardly toward their destination? They were long-range torpedoes, so without knowing the distance from the neutral zone to the planet they were attacking, I'm guessing you can't just launch them without their fuel tanks and count on them to hit their targets.

Or was Marcus unaware of what they contained? I thought when he arrived in the Vengeance he made it sound like he knew that the torpedoes contained the rest of Khan's crew.

edit: also, in reference, to my earlier prediction about what this movie would contain...

Come on, tribbles! You can't get darker than tribbles!

...Nailed it!

[GreenLantern2814]

No, this was better than Wrath of Khan.

But then again, I've always enjoyed Undiscovered Country more than Wrath. Khan has always looked ridiculous to me. But that's a product of the 60s and 80s costumes/hair.

I enjoyed this movie for what it was and understand that you can't make an actual Star Trek movie in the day of overblown 200 million dollar movies with requisite big dumb endings.

That being said, this movie is a pretty looking echo of wrath of khan. The biggest reason for Wrath being better is that there is actually a reason for the villain to feel wrath towards the film's hero.


sPOILERS




Kirk and Khan are incidental characters to each other in this movie; Khan has no beef with Kirk here, and if anything, Kirk has more motivation for 'wrath' after what happens in the briefing with Robocop.

Again, I like this movie for what it is. Wrath of Khan is ten times the film, made for less than 10 percent of this film's budget.

This may be a bit off topic, but is anyone else just done with CGI? It's to the point now where there's absolutely nothing impressive about it. Practical stunt work, models, miniatures, all still look vastly more interesting because there's more artistry behind it. You don't get to see a truck flip over and explode in real life, so when you saw it in Commando in the 80s, there was more of a reason for you to be excited or interested in it. The space battles in Star Wars are amazing in no small part because of the intricate model work and camera action required to bring those scenes to life.

Even to use Star Trek as an example. Watch the Mutara Nebula/Genesis countdown scenes in wrath of khan, and even Stealing the Enterprise from Search for Spock. In all of these scenes, nothing happens with any speed whatsoever, yet the tension in all three exceeds anything a few fast edits and a non-existent CGI enterprise could muster. Ask yourself why this is. And then ask why Hollywood insists on doing business the way they do.

Someone needs to tell them that if they make movies with good stories and visuals that supplement the story rather than star in the movie more than the actors, you can make movies for a fraction of the cost and still make your money. As I mentioned, wrath of khan was made for about 12 million and took in 79 million actual dollars. Whatever into darkness makes, it will not be that level of return on investment.

So figure your #### out, Hollywood.

[trackercowe]

Marcus found/de-iced Khan specifically to enlist him to help build the Vengeance. Marcus believes war with the Klingons is inevitable. He needed Khan to build the ship/militarize starfleet. Then Marcus discarded him and covered the tracks of what he had done. What exactly Marcus promised, I'm not sure, but likely the return of his crew.

In revenge, Khan blew up the starfleet archives, where the alteration of the databanks happened.

Something like that.
Actually he blew up the archives so there would be an officers meeting in which he would get a shot at Marcus and take out his vengeance. Kirk explained that when he brought it up. That was the real purpose of bombing the archives.

The plot was sort of contrived and convoluted, but it still makes sense if you lay it out for the most part.

My confusion is what Marcus was planning with the torpedoes. He knew that the fuel chambers had been replaced by cryogenic tubes, right? So what did he think was going to happen if they were launched? They'd just sort of splutter and then drift haphazardly toward their destination? They were long-range torpedoes, so without knowing the distance from the neutral zone to the planet they were attacking, I'm guessing you can't just launch them without their fuel tanks and count on them to hit their targets.

Or was Marcus unaware of what they contained? I thought when he arrived in the Vengeance he made it sound like he knew that the torpedoes contained the rest of Khan's crew.


Pretty sure it's the second one, as Khan did say he secretly was able to hide them in there, but wasn't able to smuggle them out in the end. You would think Marcus would have destroyed the people inside them beforehand if he had known they were inside. As to your first point while I think they'd still hit their target, actually hitting Kronos and doing much damage wasn't actually a necessity. They were launching them at an unoccupied part of the planet anyway. But just launching them in general at the planet would have been perceived as an act of war by the Klingon's, and probably started the war he desired in the end.

[Kjesse]

Actually he blew up the archives so there would be an officers meeting in which he would get a shot at Marcus and take out his vengeance. Kirk explained that when he brought it up. That was the real purpose of bombing the archives.

The plot was sort of contrived and convoluted, but it still makes sense if you lay it out for the most part.

The reason I think there's more to it than that has to do with a draft script I read/skimmed. I actually haven't seen the movie yet.

And yeah, its pretty convoluted no matter what the reasons were.

[trackercowe]

At least it wasn't as outright silly as some of the scenes in Prometheus were. I am worried that they might hand off direction to Damon Lindelof eventually. Abrams will likely only do one more movie, since Star Wars will probably take up most of his time.

If Lindelof takes over we could be in trouble.

[Wormius]

My confusion is what Marcus was planning with the torpedoes. He knew that the fuel chambers had been replaced by cryogenic tubes, right? So what did he think was going to happen if they were launched? They'd just sort of splutter and then drift haphazardly toward their destination? They were long-range torpedoes, so without knowing the distance from the neutral zone to the planet they were attacking, I'm guessing you can't just launch them without their fuel tanks and count on them to hit their targets.

Or was Marcus unaware of what they contained? I thought when he arrived in the Vengeance he made it sound like he knew that the torpedoes contained the rest of Khan's crew.



I think Marcus' motivation was to cause an incident to provoke the Klingons, whilst at the same time killing off Khan's crew by having Kirk torpedo them at Khan, like he was supposed to do instead of taking him prisoner.

Khan seemed unclear initially about the torpedoes when he asked Kirk how many there were and then promptly surrendered when he learned it was 72. It seems like he was aware, however, when being questioned aboard the Enterprise.

[CaptainCrunch]

I enjoyed this movie for what it was and understand that you can't make an actual Star Trek movie in the day of overblown 200 million dollar movies with requisite big dumb endings.

That being said, this movie is a pretty looking echo of wrath of khan. The biggest reason for Wrath being better is that there is actually a reason for the villain to feel wrath towards the film's hero.


sPOILERS




Kirk and Khan are incidental characters to each other in this movie; Khan has no beef with Kirk here, and if anything, Kirk has more motivation for 'wrath' after what happens in the briefing with Robocop.

Again, I like this movie for what it is. Wrath of Khan is ten times the film, made for less than 10 percent of this film's budget.

This may be a bit off topic, but is anyone else just done with CGI? It's to the point now where there's absolutely nothing impressive about it. Practical stunt work, models, miniatures, all still look vastly more interesting because there's more artistry behind it. You don't get to see a truck flip over and explode in real life, so when you saw it in Commando in the 80s, there was more of a reason for you to be excited or interested in it. The space battles in Star Wars are amazing in no small part because of the intricate model work and camera action required to bring those scenes to life.

Even to use Star Trek as an example. Watch the Mutara Nebula/Genesis countdown scenes in wrath of khan, and even Stealing the Enterprise from Search for Spock. In all of these scenes, nothing happens with any speed whatsoever, yet the tension in all three exceeds anything a few fast edits and a non-existent CGI enterprise could muster. Ask yourself why this is. And then ask why Hollywood insists on doing business the way they do.

Someone needs to tell them that if they make movies with good stories and visuals that supplement the story rather than star in the movie more than the actors, you can make movies for a fraction of the cost and still make your money. As I mentioned, wrath of khan was made for about 12 million and took in 79 million actual dollars. Whatever into darkness makes, it will not be that level of return on investment.

So figure your #### out, Hollywood.

But if you look at it This is more pre-space seed then wrath of Khan.

At the end of Space Seed Khan didn't have a hatred for Kirk, and Kirk didn't for Khan.

He gave Khan a planet and a chance to build a civilization, and Khan had a wife and was eager to build it.

Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): [offering Khan a hostile planet to inhabit] Those men went on to tame a continent, Mr. Khan. Can you tame a world?
Khan Noonien Singh (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001544/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Have you ever read Milton, Captain?
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Yes. I understand.


[Khan is escorted out by Security]
Scott (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001150/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): It's a shame for a good Scotsman to admit it, but I'm not up on Milton
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): The statement Lucifer made when he fell into the pit: "It is better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven."
Mr. Spock (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000559/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): It would be interesting, Captain, to return to that world in 100 years and learn what crop had sprung from the seed you planted today.

[CaptainCrunch]

Is it possible it's another one of Khan's family, an engineer perhaps? They never explicitly said Khan's first name in Into the Darkness (well old Spock did, but he wasn't really involved) There's the age difference too when you think about it.

There was only one Khan, remember they were genetically engineered supermen

Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): [looking at a library picture of Kahn on viewscreen] Name: Khan Noonien Singh.
Mr. Spock (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000559/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): From 1992 through 1996, absolute ruler of more than a quarter of your world, from Asia through the Middle East.
Dr. McCoy (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001420/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): The last of the tyrants to be overthrown.
Scott (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001150/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): I must confess, gentlemen. I've always held a sneaking admiration for this one.
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): He was the best of the tyrants and the most dangerous. They were supermen in a sense. Stronger, braver, certainly more ambitious, more daring.
Mr. Spock (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000559/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Gentlemen, this romanticism about a ruthless dictator is...
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Mr. Spock, we humans have a streak of barbarism in us. Appalling, but there, nevertheless.
Scott (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001150/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): There were no massacres under is rule.
Mr. Spock (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000559/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): And as little freedom.
Dr. McCoy (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001420/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): No wars until he was attacked.
Mr. Spock (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000559/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Gentlemen...
[All but Spock laugh]
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Mr. Spock, you misunderstand us. We can be against him and admire him all at the same time.
Mr. Spock (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000559/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Illogical.
Capt. Kirk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Totally.

[octothorp]

Pretty sure it's the second one, as Khan did say he secretly was able to hide them in there, but wasn't able to smuggle them out in the end. You would think Marcus would have destroyed the people inside them beforehand if he had known they were inside.

Okay, but if Khan wasn't caught red-handed, then why would he just assume that Marcus had killed the rest of his crew? Given what a master tactician he was, wouldn't he have attempted to find out whether his torpedo smuggling system was still intact? The whole vendetta hinges on an apparent misunderstanding, yet it's a misunderstanding that's never explained to us. I still loved this movie despite these issues, but it's walking a thin line.

[jammies]

At least it wasn't as outright silly as some of the scenes in Prometheus were.

I might as well preface this with the admission that I think Star Trek in general is thoroughly mediocre ham, but I saw a lot of silly scenes. For example:

***SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER***

Kirk fixes the warp core by kicking the snot out of it. Also, no explanation is ever given for how it gets out of alignment in the first place, considering sabotage would imply some kind of saboteur.

The aforementioned two minute transit time from the neutral zone back to Earth. And then they are knocked out of warp, apparently just beside the Moon, yet somehow nobody thinks to contact Starfleet, even using a communicator, which clearly work from orbit since they've been shown to do so many many many times before? Not to mention, if they're going at warp gajillion or whatever, they must have been about to go right thru Earth in the next picosecond, so it's a good thing they were hit and fell back into normal space before they destroyed the Earth in a massive collision.

Khan managing to put 70 (!) odd bodies into torpedoes undetected. The bodies, mind you, that were the Admiral's hold over him, and presumably would be hidden somewhere safe, not left lying around in Khan's workshop or whatever.

The dreadnought falling thru the atmosphere and landing right in San Francisco - ridiculous on three levels, as 1) it would burn up long before landing 2) it wouldn't fall at 5 km/h in Michael Bay-approved slo-mo 3) out of the entire surface of the Earth, it just happens to hit practically on top of Star Fleet headquarters in San Francisco.

The officers on the bridge of the dreadnought get to listen to the Admiral outlining his evil and illegal plot, and just carry on as normal. "No one will ever know what really happened - well, except for all these dudes on the bridge with me! Mwhahahaha!"

Scotty slides his shuttle into a group of other shuttles supplying a top-secret military base, and is not challenged nor detected as he sneaks on board the highly illegal starship being built there. If there's one thing I know about top-secret military bases, it's that security is lax and you can pretty well casually drop in, no questions asked. :whistle: Further, why would he sneak on board at all, other than to set up a deus ex machina later?

McCoy just randomly decides to inject a dead tribble with Khan's blood to see what will happen. "Hmm, I have some blood... and this dead tribble. I've always wanted to be a mad scientist..."

***SPOILERS OVER***

And that's just off the top of my head, without having to think about it. There's bending logic a bit to tell a better story, and then there's just doing whatever you want, whenever you want to. The movie was entertaining, sure, but it was apparently written by crack-addled toddlers with full access to an array of magic crayons.

[trackercowe]

^ Some of those are problems, specifically the first two. I don't know why the issue with the Saboteur was never explained. Although the damage Kirk "fixed" by kicking the core happened when Khan shot at the ship, as Chekov fixed it prior to leaving their confrontation with Marcus.

As to your third point, Khan did command the ship to aim for San Francisco, so that's the reason why it crashed there. Also Khan was responsible for the ships construction, so maybe he knows how to build a ship that can sustain destruction from the atmosphere.

Also those weren't officers on Marcus' ship, those were just private contractors and mercenaries. Scotty said as much when he ran into one in the escape hatch (which was a poorly written exchange mind you). So they likely knew of Marcus' plan, and were in on it all along. Scotty was also on a ship that looked the exact same as the others around him, so he was able to sneak in that way. There were many similar shuttles around him, and I doubt they had the time to check them all individually in time to go after Khan.

As for your last point, yeah that's quite contrived, but I am sure McCoy did a bunch of tests, not just the one to see how it would react with a dead tribble. Once again it was such a damn obvious scene they practically beat its value over our heads, but I'm glad they didn't end up bothering with Kirk's resurrection in the next movie.

[photon]

Kirk and Khan are incidental characters to each other in this movie; Khan has no beef with Kirk here, and if anything, Kirk has more motivation for 'wrath' after what happens in the briefing with Robocop.

Exactly, I've got no reason to feel invested in the conflict between them. It's like taking two random guys off the street and making them fight, or taking Spock and Kirk and making them fight. One has deep context and meaning and drama and tension, the other is just a spectacle.

And nowadays in sci-fi, meaning and drama and tension and characters are hard to come by.

I get what they tried to do with Kirk, but even that we're just beaten over the head with. It's like they're not showing me the character development, they're just telling me what it is.

In all of these scenes, nothing happens with any speed whatsoever, yet the tension in all three exceeds anything a few fast edits and a non-existent CGI enterprise could muster. Ask yourself why this is. And then ask why Hollywood insists on doing business the way they do.

Great creativity often comes out of constraints and boundaries, rather than a blank slate.

Ask why Pixar can pull off more emotion between Wall-E and Eve. They understand a blank slate with unbridled imagination does not equal creativity, listen to the commentaries on Pixar films and you'll hear them talking about not what they created, but what they cut to get down to the essence of the story. Good authors talk all the time about tearing out parts they love because they don't serve the story.

[WhiteTiger]

His full name is Khan Noonien Singh.

Wasn't Data's creator/maker/father named Noonien Singh, too?

[Caged Great]

Dr. Noonien Soong actually. pretty similar but no.

[GreenLantern2814]

But if you look at it This is more pre-space seed then wrath of Khan.

At the end of Space Seed Khan didn't have a hatred for Kirk, and Kirk didn't for Khan.

He gave Khan a planet and a chance to build a civilization, and Khan had a wife and was eager to build it.

Exactly, it's pre space seed. So why then go and attempt to make what is essentially a Wrath of Khan remake on speed? Of all the iconic moments in cinema that are exploited in this film, not one of them feels earned.

Also, remember that scene in Wrath of Khan when Kirk beams over to the Reliant and gets into a fist fight with Khan? It doesn't exist because the story was strong enough to not have a cliched punchout with the bad guy.

Damn good summer blockbuster. Pale immitation star trek. Though if star wars is done like this, we should be in for a show.

[WhiteTiger]

Dr. Noonien Soong actually. pretty similar but no.

Dang. Close, but it's been some time since I watched the shows.

[Tinordi]

This is the book at Abrams and Lindelof though. Lots of style and engagement but very little substance. Great while you're watching it, utterly forgettable the moment you leave the cinema.

[jammies]

^ Some of those are problems, specifically the first two. I don't know why the issue with the Saboteur was never explained. Although the damage Kirk "fixed" by kicking the core happened when Khan shot at the ship, as Chekov fixed it prior to leaving their confrontation with Marcus.

How does hitting the ship move the warp cores out of alignment? That sounds like a really crap design issue to me, especially when the "fix" is having someone kill themselves kicking it back into place. "Oh man, someone shot at us again! Who is on warp core duty today - Ensign Whirly? Haha, sucks to be you, dude!"

Not only that, but the Federation can make a suit which protects the wearer from being right inside a volcano, but a simple radiation suit is apparently completely beyond them.

As to your third point, Khan did command the ship to aim for San Francisco, so that's the reason why it crashed there. Also Khan was responsible for the ships construction, so maybe he knows how to build a ship that can sustain destruction from the atmosphere.

Aimed it how? I didn't hear him command that, but if the starship had working drives, why is it falling (in violation of the laws of physics, mind you - if it's just beside the Moon, it's going to fall there, not on the Earth, and the Moon is practically covering the sky in some of the battle shots) at all? It's not a plane, it doesn't have control surfaces to maneuver in atmosphere. And why would you engineer a starship to be able to survive atmospheric re-entry unpowered, even if you could?

That whole sequence is really, really dumb. They are tens of thousands of kilometres from Earth (they say exactly how far, but I misremember), yet in a few minutes the dreadnought hits the Earth, meaning it must be travelling at hundreds of thousands of km/h to get there that fast. But wait! We see it fall and hit, and it's going maybe a few km/h. Then it smashes the city, and there is mass destruction... But wait! A few blocks away, it's normality, with traffic merrily chugging along and people ambling along, oblivious.

Also those weren't officers on Marcus' ship, those were just private contractors and mercenaries. Scotty said as much when he ran into one in the escape hatch (which was a poorly written exchange mind you). So they likely knew of Marcus' plan, and were in on it all along.

That makes it even worse - so, presumably, this was a private project of Marcus'? That ship was, what, 8 times as big as Enterprise (2X as long, high, and wide) and he just used his expense account to build it and crew it? Where did he get the money, the materials, the construction crews? Or did Khan build the whole thing himself out of Lego blocks?

Scotty was also on a ship that looked the exact same as the others around him, so he was able to sneak in that way. There were many similar shuttles around him, and I doubt they had the time to check them all individually in time to go after Khan.

150 years from now they won't have IFF on their starships? Or the ability to count? "Hmm, we ordered 9 shuttles of supplies, but we got 10. Well, I dunno, it's probably ok. Just park it over there by the crates marked "Munitions" and hope it's not a trojan horse here to blow up this multi-trillion credit starship."

Further, how did he even get close to the starship yard in the first place - they don't have pickets out defending it at all? What if the Klingons start a war before it's ready - I guess they just come in all lah-de-dah, dancing and singing and pirouetting, then blow up the secret weapon, after which Admiral Marcus look like a clown running a circus?

And before you say "Well it's hidden and secret!", the Federation could find ONE GUY'S specific location on the Klingon homeworld (which was also stupid, because why didn't they use that ability when he was on the run after the bombing and still on Earth), the Klingons should be able to find a huge starship. One would presume they have spies, drones, really big telescopes, tracking dogs, access to Wikipedia, and other sources of intel sufficient to the task.

As for your last point, yeah that's quite contrived, but I am sure McCoy did a bunch of tests, not just the one to see how it would react with a dead tribble. Once again it was such a damn obvious scene they practically beat its value over our heads, but I'm glad they didn't end up bothering with Kirk's resurrection in the next movie.

It's incredibly dumb because another 15 seconds of exposition would have (sort of) fixed it. "Hmm, Jim, in studying this blood sample I took of Khan's, I noticed that it seems to have miraculous properties of regeneration and cell regrowth. I'm thinking of injecting this tribble I caught Crewman Morty sodomizing to death - it's possible it might even be able to return the dead to life!" "Good idea, Bones! And I hope you gave Morty a stern lecture!"

[trackercowe]

How does hitting the ship move the warp cores out of alignment? That sounds like a really crap design issue to me, especially when the "fix" is having someone kill themselves kicking it back into place. "Oh man, someone shot at us again! Who is on warp core duty today - Ensign Whirly? Haha, sucks to be you, dude!"

Not only that, but the Federation can make a suit which protects the wearer from being right inside a volcano, but a simple radiation suit is apparently completely beyond them.

Many, many, many movies do the same thing. Sure kicking the core back into the place might not seem logical, but it's a common method used in many movies. Maybe there was only a 1% chance kicking it was going to work, but hey it did! That's not really a big deal at all; it was out of alignment (not necessarily broken), but Kirk moved it back. He also probably didn't have time to put on a radiation suit, as wasting any time may have caused the destruction of the Enterprise. That and the ship was in pieces, so who knows if such suits could have been located, or if they were even near the hatch. You're really looking for issues that don't need explaining there.

Aimed it how? I didn't hear him command that, but if the starship had working drives, why is it falling (in violation of the laws of physics, mind you - if it's just beside the Moon, it's going to fall there, not on the Earth, and the Moon is practically covering the sky in some of the battle shots) at all? It's not a plane, it doesn't have control surfaces to maneuver in atmosphere. And why would you engineer a starship to be able to survive atmospheric re-entry unpowered, even if you could?

That whole sequence is really, really dumb. They are tens of thousands of kilometres from Earth (they say exactly how far, but I misremember), yet in a few minutes the dreadnought hits the Earth, meaning it must be travelling at hundreds of thousands of km/h to get there that fast. But wait! We see it fall and hit, and it's going maybe a few km/h. Then it smashes the city, and there is mass destruction... But wait! A few blocks away, it's normality, with traffic merrily chugging along and people ambling along, oblivious.

He most definitely did command it to hit Star Fleet HQ in San Francisco; you can hear it plain as day when his ship is falling apart. It had just enough power to control where it was going to hit, but not enough to stop it from falling towards the Earth, probably because certain parts were still working, while others weren't. And why wouldn't you engineer a starship to survive re-entry if you can? Just for the sake of extra safety if the ship is destroyed.

I don't think that scene in particular was dumb at all. Maybe the Bayish slowdown was, but the crash was one of the bigger effects in the movie, so they had to sell the crash. Any the citizens of the city were only reacting normally before the ship hitting the city. Are they supposed to expect falling starships or something? Is that a normal event that happens in San Francisco on a daily basis?

That makes it even worse - so, presumably, this was a private project of Marcus'? That ship was, what, 8 times as big as Enterprise (2X as long, high, and wide) and he just used his expense account to build it and crew it? Where did he get the money, the materials, the construction crews? Or did Khan build the whole thing himself out of Lego blocks?

Really you wanted an explanation of how he was able to fund the building of the ship? Do you they need to detail it specifically? Maybe he lied to Starfleet of its true intentions, and they aided him in building it, while only mercenaries were used in powering the ship (they said he only needed a few). Maybe he got the funds to build it from private sources who believe in his cause? Does that really need an explanation? Do you really want a detailed financial record of how the ship was built, what is this Space Balls?

150 years from now they won't have IFF on their starships? Or the ability to count? "Hmm, we ordered 9 shuttles of supplies, but we got 10. Well, I dunno, it's probably ok. Just park it over there by the crates marked "Munitions" and hope it's not a trojan horse here to blow up this multi-trillion credit starship."

Further, how did he even get close to the starship yard in the first place - they don't have pickets out defending it at all? What if the Klingons start a war before it's ready - I guess they just come in all lah-de-dah, dancing and singing and pirouetting, then blow up the secret weapon, after which Admiral Marcus look like a clown running a circus?

And before you say "Well it's hidden and secret!", the Federation could find ONE GUY'S specific location on the Klingon homeworld (which was also stupid, because why didn't they use that ability when he was on the run after the bombing and still on Earth), the Klingons should be able to find a huge starship. One would presume they have spies, drones, really big telescopes, tracking dogs, access to Wikipedia, and other sources of intel sufficient to the task.

As I said they probably didn't have enough time to check all of the transports to find out who/what was in them. They were forced to go after Kirk in a matter of minutes, which did not give them time to look around the ship or check for credentials. Also how was Marcus to know Khan had given Kirk the coordinates for the ship, and that one of Kirk's officers was on Earth and was able to sneak aboard the ship? You really want them to explain every specific point in detail don't you? Hundreds of transports (not nine or ten) boarded the ship, and Scotty was able to hide out on the ship (which had a small crew aboard), and wasn't found by any of the Mercs.

Any why would the Klingon's go to Jupiter in search of the ship? Maybe it was, or wasn't hidden from Starfleet, but I am sure it was hidden from the Klingon's out of anyone. Also there was no evidence that the Klingon's wanted to attack Earth. Marcus was the one who said the war was coming; you didn't hear the same from anyone else. Maybe they were going to attack Earth eventually, maybe not; that could be further explored in later movies. But for now they seemed quite happy in taking over other planets instead.

Spock was able to detect where he went on Kronos because of the transport device he used. He did not use the same transport device while on Earth, so how could they track him then? They didn't know his exact location on Kronos, which is why they had to search a bit for him, but fortunately he wanted to find them, and he did.

It's incredibly dumb because another 15 seconds of exposition would have (sort of) fixed it. "Hmm, Jim, in studying this blood sample I took of Khan's, I noticed that it seems to have miraculous properties of regeneration and cell regrowth. I'm thinking of injecting this tribble I caught Crewman Morty sodomizing to death - it's possible it might even be able to return the dead to life!" "Good idea, Bones! And I hope you gave Morty a stern lecture!"
The movie was already pushing two and a half hours, do you really need more exposition on the purpose of the experiment? The minute I saw him injecting the blood I knew it was going to be used (and I am sure most people thought the same way). They knew Khan's blood had superhuman elements to it, so why not inject it in a dead animal? Maybe he did tests prior to it, and saw what capabilities it had, and decided to try it out. If anything I wonder why they didn't blood let Khan and the rest of his crew at the end of the movie to store their superhuman blood for future purposes. You would figure having the ability to resurrect humans would be important for Starfleet, but maybe not if they just stored the bodies in cryogenics.

[jammies]

He also probably didn't have time to put on a radiation suit, as wasting any time may have caused the destruction of the Enterprise. That and the ship was in pieces, so who knows if such suits could have been located, or if they were even near the hatch. You're really looking for issues that don't need explaining there.

I dunno, if I had radiation suits available, I think I'd keep them somewhere near where they might be useful, like, say, at the access hatch to the radioactive warp drives. I don't think it's really stretching to wonder how they don't have something in the future that we have versions of now.

And why wouldn't you engineer a starship to survive re-entry if you can? Just for the sake of extra safety if the ship is destroyed.

Because a starship falling onto a planet is extremely unlikely, and if it did fall, not burning up in the atmosphere isn't going to help you when the ship hits the planet. Further, even if you come up with some reason, like wanting to be able to take the starship into atmosphere when the shields are down (why?), there are big chunks of hull missing from the dreadnought so that still doesn't fly.

I don't think that scene in particular was dumb at all. Maybe the Bayish slowdown was, but the crash was one of the bigger effects in the movie, so they had to sell the crash. Any the citizens of the city were only reacting normally before the ship hitting the city. Are they supposed to expect falling starships or something? Is that a normal event that happens in San Francisco on a daily basis?

Spock chases Khan thru the city for a while, and nobody seems too chuffed about the giant spaceship crash once they get past the impact area.

Really you wanted an explanation of how he was able to fund the building of the ship? Do you they need to detail it specifically? Maybe he lied to Starfleet of its true intentions, and they aided him in building it, while only mercenaries were used in powering the ship (they said he only needed a few). Maybe he got the funds to build it from private sources who believe in his cause? Does that really need an explanation? Do you really want a detailed financial record of how the ship was built, what is this Space Balls?

Do you think some admiral in the current US Navy could get a giant supercarrier built, then staff it with his own guys and take it off on a cruise to nuke the Chinese? If that type of scenario is not credible now, what makes it credible in the Star Trek universe?

As I said they probably didn't have enough time to check all of the transports to find out who/what was in them. They were forced to go after Kirk in a matter of minutes, which did not give them time to look around the ship or check for credentials.

That's just not how military security works. The idea is laughable, they do similar things in movies all the time, but that doesn't make it any more likely to actually happen. This is some kind of top-secret base, not the back of the movie theatre with your buddy Jimmy holding the fire door open. You don't get onto the ship - hurried departure or not - without your credentials being checked, and, as I said, there would be defences set up to challenge and destroy unauthorized vessels even trying to get close, which wouldn't rely on "well it kinda LOOKS like one of our shuttles."

Any why would the Klingon's go to Jupiter in search of the ship?

A competent military assumes the worst case at all times - the point is not that the Klingons might attack, but that it's stupid to think that Starfleet, or whoever was building that ship, would not assume it might be attacked and wouldn't take measures to defend it if that did happen. Especially when Admiral Marcus, already shown to be paranoid about Klingons, is the one who set up the base.

Spock was able to detect where he went on Kronos because of the transport device he used. He did not use the same transport device while on Earth, so how could they track him then? They didn't know his exact location on Kronos, which is why they had to search a bit for him, but fortunately he wanted to find them, and he did.

Well that's almost credible, although why they don't use these magic transporters to go everywhere instantly instead of using a ship is another open question. I didn't remember Spock specifically saying that he found Khan by tracing his transporter at all, I think I was busy being amazed that somehow they could track one guy on a far distant planet light-years away as if it was as easy as spotting a guy on a unicycle across the street.

The movie was already pushing two and a half hours, do you really need more exposition on the purpose of the experiment?

If it made sense, I wouldn't, no. Random things happening to advance the plot is the very essence of poor writing, though.

[OutOfTheCube]

It's incredibly dumb because another 15 seconds of exposition would have (sort of) fixed it. "Hmm, Jim, in studying this blood sample I took of Khan's, I noticed that it seems to have miraculous properties of regeneration and cell regrowth. I'm thinking of injecting this tribble

That's almost exactly what he actually says in the movie. Try watching it more than once and actually paying attention before bitching about every tiny detail.

[MrMastodonFarm]

I thought the Klingons looked pretty good and were generally pretty awesome. I loved there outfits.

They'd be very good villains for the third movie... it's just a shame they cut them off at the knees already by making the current bad guy mop the floor with them.

[jammies]

That's almost exactly what he actually says in the movie. Try watching it more than once and actually paying attention before bitching about every tiny detail.

Are you saying you've already seen this movie twice or more? I hope not just so you could closely rewatch the scene with the tribble.

What did McCoy say? I remember him saying something along the lines of "I'm going to inject this dead tribble with Khan's blood to test its properties" to which I thought "Oh, so someone's going to die and get resurrected by Khan's blood - well isn't that convenient!", but I suppose it's possible dead tribbles are standard Starfleet resurrection testing subjects and it wasn't just a throw-in homage awkwardly worked into the film.

[GreenLantern2814]

Are you saying you've already seen this movie twice or more? I hope not just so you could closely rewatch the scene with the tribble.

What did McCoy say? I remember him saying something along the lines of "I'm going to inject this dead tribble with Khan's blood to test its properties" to which I thought "Oh, so someone's going to die and get resurrected by Khan's blood - well isn't that convenient!", but I suppose it's possible dead tribbles are standard Starfleet resurrection testing subjects and it wasn't just a throw-in homage awkwardly worked into the film.

When that scene happens, I thought it was a clever little way to explain why tribbles reproduce so rapidly; a super tribble with Khan blood. But as soon as Kirk goes into the reactor, you know that's how they're bringing him back. Thus rendering any potential emotional impact of the scene inert.

[sureLoss]

I thought the Klingons looked pretty good and were generally pretty awesome. I loved there outfits.

They'd be very good villains for the third movie... it's just a shame they cut them off at the knees already by making the current bad guy mop the floor with them.

Speaking of the Klingons, I noticed Kronos' moon was already blown up... wasn't that the disaster that brought the Klingons to negotiate a peace treaty with the Federation in one of the earlier Star Trek movies?

[GreenLantern2814]

Speaking of the Klingons, I noticed Kronos' moon was already blown up... wasn't that the disaster that brought the Klingons to negotiate a peace treaty with the Federation in one of the earlier Star Trek movies?

Yep, its the Chernobyl disaster that kicks off the events of star trek six. It felt like something that was thrown in for the hardcore audience, except there was no discussion about why the thing was broken in the first place.

I dunno, maybe the destruction of Vulcan caused the klingons to ramp up their defense spending and Praxis became unstable sooner. I still think someone said 'The moon explodes right?'

'Yeah'

'Great, put it in the establishing shot, it'll look awesome'

'it's not supposed to explode for 30 years'

'#### it, new timeline'

'if its a new time line, must we shoplift so much from the previous films? This crew has its own destiny, is it really gonna be past adventures with more commercially viable aesthetics?'

'You're fired'

[Yeah_Baby]

They spelt Qo'noS wrong too.

[CaptainCrunch]

Stupid thing, I didn't like the Klingon look, they got to enamored with it.

to me the current Star Trek stories happened before the events of the 5 year voyage in the original series.

So the Klingon's should have been

http://www.beertripper.com/startrek_images/races/Klingons_Star_Trek_TOS.jpg

If I recall my Star Trek, the bumpy headed Klingon look didn't really have wide spread occurance until the time between the series and tmp

[Rhettzky]

But then how would you be able to differentiate between Klingons and guys with goatee's? Seems hilariously confusing.

[Puppet Guy]

Stupid thing, I didn't like the Klingon look, they got to enamored with it.

to me the current Star Trek stories happened before the events of the 5 year voyage in the original series.

So the Klingon's should have been

http://www.beertripper.com/startrek_images/races/Klingons_Star_Trek_TOS.jpg

If I recall my Star Trek, the bumpy headed Klingon look didn't really have wide spread occurance until the time between the series and tmp

I read an interview with Gene Roddenberry back around 1990 where he had the best line about the different look between TOS Klingons and movie/TNG Klingons: "they always looked the way they do now (bumpy-headed)- we just didn't have the budget in 1966!"

[MrMastodonFarm]

Speaking of the Klingons, I noticed Kronos' moon was already blown up... wasn't that the disaster that brought the Klingons to negotiate a peace treaty with the Federation in one of the earlier Star Trek movies?

I have no idea, if I ever know the answer to this puzzle I may just shoot myself.

[GreenLantern2814]

I have no idea, if I ever know the answer to this puzzle I may just shoot myself.

Don't look up...

[GreenLantern2814]

Courtesy of red letter media, an in depth review of Into Darkness that everyone who has seen the film should watch.

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-star-trek-into-darkness/

[gottabekd]

Courtesy of red letter media, an in depth review of Into Darkness that everyone who has seen the film should watch.

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-star-trek-into-darkness/

So on the one hand, they aren't off base with most of their points. On the other hand, I'm not sure if anything would have satisfied them.

[GreenLantern2814]

So on the one hand, they aren't off base with most of their points. On the other hand, I'm not sure if anything would have satisfied them.

A more thoughtful movie would've done it.

[Yeah_Baby]

A more thoughtful movie would've done it.

Exactly. As the review said, they crafted the plot to jump from action scene, to shocking reveal moment to another action scene, to shallow homage. Write a good story first, then go from there.

[Yamer]

"Use the shuttle-craft obtained during the 'Mudd' incident."

Hehe, awesome.

[3 Justin 3]

A better movie than Iron Man 3 that's for sure.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

I read an interview with Gene Roddenberry back around 1990 where he had the best line about the different look between TOS Klingons and movie/TNG Klingons: "they always looked the way they do now (bumpy-headed)- we just didn't have the budget in 1966!"

They actually addressed this in Enterprise before. I believe there was a whole arc about it. The Klingons stole the eugenics technology from the humans and tried to synthesize it for Klingons. Instead it altered their genetics and eliminated the ridges on their heads for a couple generations.

I think Warf also mentions it in passing during that DS9 episode when they go back in time to the original Enterprise. Well by "mention" I mean he says "I don't want to talk about it".

[Yeah_Baby]

The Enterprise arc was stupid.

[Bane]

There was an old Star Trek roleplaying game that theorized that the Klingons make Klingon-Human fusions and Klingon-Romulan fusions to man the areas along the neutral zones to keep their true appearance and biology secret.

Warf's response, mentioned above, was the best way to handle it IMHO.

[CaptainCrunch]

The Enterprise arc was stupid.

With the exception of the final mirror arc there wasn't a lot about that stupid show that was good.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

With the exception of the final mirror arc there wasn't a lot about that stupid show that was good.

Sounds like I missed out? I didn't watch a whole lot of the final season. I actually didn't mind the show. But also it was meh enough for me to not bother with much of the final season.

[Hemi-Cuda]

With the exception of the final mirror arc there wasn't a lot about that stupid show that was good.

well, there were a few other things worth watching for...

http://i3.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/250/draft_lens17599448module147986113photo_1296785402t pol2.jpg

[CaptainCrunch]

Sounds like I missed out? I didn't watch a whole lot of the final season. I actually didn't mind the show. But also it was meh enough for me to not bother with much of the final season.

I guess I enjoyed them because every character acted like a villain with the exception of the Vulcan chick whatever her name was.

It was also cool that they used the Star Trek original sets and uniforms as they gleefully killed everyone.

[Yeah_Baby]

And for the love of Q people, it's spelt WORF!

[CaptainCrunch]

and for the love of q people, it's spelt barf!

fyp

[Yamer]

fyp

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsC/2615-17920.jpg