Seattle investor has plans to build downtown arena

[Bluzman]

"Hansen’s aim is to get a NBA team back to the city to replace the Supersonics who left for Oklahoma City back in 2008. A new arena would mean the NHL would take Seattle’s interest in bringing a team there far more seriously. With the Phoenix Coyotes potentially in need of a new place to move, and soon, the lure of moving them to a new major market like Seattle would be strong."


http://bit.ly/ymvjvF

[Joborule]

Get it done.

[saskflames69]

Seattle Totems?

[Trailer Fire]

If the Coyotes moved to Seattle, what would the team name be? Coyotes aren't as prevelant in the Washington area, so I doubt they would keep the name. Pioneers? Kinda lame. Maybe something to do with the cultural aspect?

[killer_carlson]

Seattle Grunge?

Seattle Cranes

Seattle Urchins

[seattleflamer]

^^The tradition would be the Seattle Metropolitans (Metros) of course ;) first American based team to win the Stanley Cup during WWI.

[Montana Moe]

Seattle Geoducks

http://www.antiquark.com/img/geoduck_clam_1.jpg

[Ducay]

^^The tradition would be the Seattle Metropolitans (Metros) of course ;) first American based team to win the Stanley Cup during WWI.

Always figured it would be the San Fran Metros first though.

Is there really that much demand for NHL in Seattle over and above WHL? I can see NBA doing better there, which is clearly the goal of the arena.

[Johnny Rotten]

Move to Seattle, and hopefully Doan moves to Calgary.

[ClubFlames]

Move to Seattle, and hopefully Doan moves to Calgary.

..after he retires right?

[handgroen]

Seattle Sounders?

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Seattle Jets

[Flash Walken]

i'd love to have a team in Seattle.

Hopefully tickets would be cheap as balls.

I also wonder how it would change NHL travel schedules and realignment in a positive way.

[ClubFlames]

Seattle's.. Best?

[Johnny Rotten]

..after he retires right?

Yah, just checked his stats. He really isn't having a great year, is he? I guess the Flames will just have to stick with signing Suter and Parise;)

[tomo]

There is a massive hockey community in Seattle.
Tonnes of hockey leagues, jr teams in Seattle and Everett with great rivalries with Spokane and Portland.

I have always though that this town is the missing NHL city.
This would be a great move for the NHL.

[Notorious Honey Badger]

Seattle Rough Riders

[MikaelBacklund]

Seattle's.. Best?

bahahaha +1

[Trailer Fire]

I also wonder how it would change NHL travel schedules and realignment in a positive way.

I did some quick brainstorming and I came up with this. If Phoenix moves to Seattle (http://www.surfcanyon.com/search?f=sl&q=Seattle&partner=wtiffeub), Seattle joins the North West. That actually makes everything in the West pretty nice. Minnesota joins the Central and the NHL can honour it's long standing promise to Detroit and send them east. The problem, however, is the east.

WEST:

North West
Vancouver, Seattle, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg
Pacific
San Jose, Anaheim, LA, Colorado, Dallas
Centeral
Minnesota, Chicago, St. Louis, Nashville, Columbus


EAST:

North East
Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Buffalo, Detroit
Atlantic
Boston, New Jersey, New York (Islanders), New York (Rangers), Washington
South East
Pittsburg, Philidelphia, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Florida

I didn't want to break up some divisonal rivals, but I thought this would work. the only problem I see is the Atlantic and South East really crossing boarders with Pittsburg and Philly being South East while Washington is Atlantic.

I think it works, quite well. Much better than when Phoenix was still kicking around.

[skudr248]

Seattle Squid

[getbak]

The Seattle Call Us When You've Actually Built an Arenas

[doctajones428]

Seattle Nordiques!

[Red Slinger]

Despite the large population, advantageous geographic location and the proposed new arena I just don't see the NHL being successful in Seattle. It has never been a particularly strong hockey market. In fact, it's not a very strong sports market, in general, with the exception of the Seahawks. But the NFL is much more than sport in the US.

Don't see it happening. I think Kansas City, Oklahoma City and even Houston are more likely NHL destinations.

[Joborule]

Despite the large population, advantageous geographic location and the proposed new arena I just don't see the NHL being successful in Seattle. It has never been a particularly strong hockey market. In fact, it's not a very strong sports market, in general, with the exception of the Seahawks. But the NFL is much more than sport in the US.

Is that really the case? NBA left because they didn't get a new arena. I think the fan support was/is there. MLB is doing well enough it appears, and they haven't made the playoffs since 2001.

[Red Slinger]

Is that really the case? NBA left because they didn't get a new arena. I think the fan support was/is there. MLB is doing well enough it appears, and they haven't made the playoffs since 2001.

That's true.

Seattle has been rumoured to be a NHL destination ever since Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton came into the league. There simply hasn't been the grass-roots, ground-level support for a NHL team in Seattle. Despite a new arena and possibly some money behind a team, without some real local interest for a team in Seattle it will likely turn out no better than the Phoenix, Atlanta, Florida, etc. expansion.

[dissentowner]

Would rather see the Nordique return.

[Joborule]

That's true.

Seattle has been rumoured to be a NHL destination ever since Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton came into the league. There simply hasn't been the grass-roots, ground-level support for a NHL team in Seattle. Despite a new arena and possibly some money behind a team, without some real local interest for a team in Seattle it will likely turn out no better than the Phoenix, Atlanta, Florida, etc. expansion.
True that there hasn't been much basis in previous groundwork, but I think with it's proximity to Canada/Vancouver and the NW region of US having no NHL teams at all (Denver and San Jose being the closest), I think it would have a fair shot of being successful. (As long management puts out a decent team in due time)

[Blaster86]

Would rather see the Nordique return.

Seattle Nordiques?

[Canada 02]

Seattle Microsofts

Oilers relocate

[pylon]

Seattle Cobains.

They'll blow your mind.

[SportsJunky]

Seattle Battalion.

I spent a number of years down there and hockey was always looked upon as a novelty. I've always seen Seattle and even Portland as poor NHL cities.

[Dion]

Seattle Superdawgs.

[Vulcan]

Seattle was once given a provisional NHL franchise. I guess they couldn't get all their provisions together though Seattle has a long hockey history stretching back 100 years. I think it would be great for them to get a NHL team.

Name them the Totems like their old WHL team. They can also play temporarily in the Tacoma Dome. It all hinges on getting a new arena though.

[Poe969]

the Seattle moving in 3-5 years

[Winsor_Pilates]

Despite the large population, advantageous geographic location and the proposed new arena I just don't see the NHL being successful in Seattle. It has never been a particularly strong hockey market. In fact, it's not a very strong sports market, in general, with the exception of the Seahawks. But the NFL is much more than sport in the US.

Don't see it happening. I think Kansas City, Oklahoma City and even Houston are more likely NHL destinations.
Even the sounders get amazingly large crowds.
Not sure where the notion Seattle isn't a strong sports market comes from.

[Erick Estrada]

Even the sounders get amazingly large crowds.
Not sure where the notion Seattle isn't a strong sports market comes from.

Yeah it's actually one of the better US sports markets. They actually support their teams win or lose. I think it's a great location and would make road swing for eastern teams to Vancouver much easier as they could spend 2-3 days between Seattle and Vancouver much like teams going through California rather than take a long flight in then out right after. Also another fan base to strongly loathe the Canucks.

[Azure]

Even the sounders get amazingly large crowds.
Not sure where the notion Seattle isn't a strong sports market comes from.

Or a strong hockey market. Like has been mentioned earlier in the thread, Seattle has a great interest in minor league hockey, which is basically your grassroots effort that you need.

I lived there 15 years ago, and there wasn't much interest in hockey, but I would say that has changed a lot. The interest in the Winterhawks, Thunderbirds, Chiefs and Tri-City Americans has greatly increased, and even at a local level I would say that a lot of the kids I knew that wanted nothing to do with hockey are now all involved with some sort of league or recreational hockey.

Also, I would say that a team in Seattle would do much better than a team in Florida. The NHL is growing, and I think a team in Seattle would do well.

[604flames]

Watching a Thunderbirds game at KeyArena was a pretty unique hockey experience...

[Trailer Fire]

Watching a Thunderbirds game at KeyArena was a pretty unique hockey experience...

Off topic, but awesome avatar.

[afc wimbledon]

Seattle won't pay for an arena for anything so unless Richie Rich is going to fork out for the arena it ain't happening regardless of what kind of a market it might be.

[Resolute 14]

NFL, MLB, MLS, eventual NBA, Washington Huskies.

WHL teams in Kent and Everett. PCL in Tacoma and NWL in Everett.

Seattle is heavily saturated already. The NHL would be a tough go.

[Walter Reed]

Seattle Starbuck's

[Knalus]

Seattle has been rumoured to be a NHL destination ever since Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton came into the league. There simply hasn't been the grass-roots, ground-level support for a NHL team in Seattle. Despite a new arena and possibly some money behind a team, without some real local interest for a team in Seattle it will likely turn out no better than the San Jose, Dallas, Colorado, etc. expansion.

fyp

[Stay Golden]

Seattle Stoners!

[tomo]

Seattle is a great sports market. Those who question it might need to do a bit more travelling.

Like I have said before, hockey is being played all over the place here. I lived in Chicago a few years ago and there is easily as many people playing here in Seattle as there is in Chicago.

The problem with pro sports franchises needing public funding for arenas isn't about the desire for the teams it is that Washington State does not have a state income tax. So getting public funding for something that is considered a luxury is somewhat difficult. It took the Seahawks and the Mariners a very long time to receive public funding for their stadiums.

[seattleflamer]

Even the sounders get amazingly large crowds.
Not sure where the notion Seattle isn't a strong sports market comes from.

Gotta scratch my head on how Seattle isn't a big sports market. I would agree that big league sports isn't religion here since there are so many more people and activities. It is simply diluted with everything else in a big city.


Seattle is a bigger market than Denver, Minnesota and Miami all of which have all four major league plus Division 1 college. Heck, WSU and Gonzaga play their some of their "home" games at Key.

Also there is simply a lot of people who live in the area. To put into context, the Seattle-Tacoma-Everett area has 1 million more people than the Lower Mainland or even if you combine the metro populations of Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg...heck throw in Regina and Saskatoon, it still wouldn't be as big as the Seattle MSA.


It is a big pool of humanity with a vibrant and strong grassroots hockey following. I didn't think MLS would do well when they came back a few years ago but like a lot of NA, there is/was a strong grassroots soccer community here and now the Sounders are a big ticket event even though you don't hear everyone talking about it.


People follow hockey and are passionate about it, but it is one of many activities to do and diluted as such. No other country follows hockey with the same laser focus the way Canadians do.

[Stay Golden]

^^^
there is no reason why Seattle isn't a logical NHL choice for an American based team. Big sports town in general NFL, MLB, NCAA and the Thunderbirds have been there since the late 70's so the grass roots is there.

[afc wimbledon]

^^^
there is no reason why Seattle isn't a logical NHL choice for an American based team. Big sports town in general NFL, MLB, NCAA and the Thunderbirds have been there since the late 70's so the grass roots is there.

Well there is a reason, the taxpayers of Seattle will not pay for it, both due to the lack of a tax base as noted before and also because Seattle is a very left leaning political city where almost everything has to survive well organised opposition in the courts and politically.

So somebody has to be rich enough to totally fund the purchase and construction of an arena and come up with franchise fees for the NBA and NHL, I just don't see it ever happening to be frank, unless Gates or Allen develops a huge love of hockey or basketball.

[Wronskian]

Seattle Starbucks? Seattle Pike Roasters?

[tjinaz]

there is no reason why Seattle isn't a logical NHL choice for an American based team. Big sports town in general NFL, MLB, NCAA and the Thunderbirds have been there since the late 70's so the grass roots is there.

Replace Thunderbirds with Roadrunners and you just described Phoenix.

[calgARI]

Replace Thunderbirds with Roadrunners and you just described Phoenix.

Except that the Coyotes don't play in Phoenix or even very close to it.

[Jordan!]

I would be more than content if Seattle got the Yotes

[Jordan!]

Except that the Coyotes don't play in Phoenix or even very close to it.

20 minutes isn't close? but I digress. :rolleyes:

[cgy2london]

Seattle is a great sports market. Those who question it might need to do a bit more travelling.

Like I have said before, hockey is being played all over the place here. I lived in Chicago a few years ago and there is easily as many people playing here in Seattle as there is in Chicago.

The problem with pro sports franchises needing public funding for arenas isn't about the desire for the teams it is that Washington State does not have a state income tax. So getting public funding for something that is considered a luxury is somewhat difficult. It took the Seahawks and the Mariners a very long time to receive public funding for their stadiums.

Very intresting view. When i was growing up playing midget aaa, seattle only had two minor hockey associations....talking to guys who played in the Lower mainland league, the two teams from seattle were a joke. Hockey just never seemed to be a popular concept in seattle. Rinks were few and few between, I believe one of the associations even played in an old grocery store/mall? something to that affect.

Oshie coming out of washington state was an absolute shocker. I dont know what its like now but in my day minor hockey in seattle was very uncommon. compare it to a place like Chicago.....where they have programs such as the Chicago chill or team illinois who entered the macs regularly, i find it very surprising that you see more of a hockey youth movment in seattle compared to chicago.

Would love to see a team in seattle but I was always under the impression hockey at the grass roots level in seattle was very bare.

[Resolute 14]

20 minutes isn't close? but I digress. :rolleyes:

Just like how Airdrie is 20 minutes from downtown Calgary, right?

[Stay Golden]

Replace Thunderbirds with Roadrunners and you just described Phoenix.

except that
Seattle actually has a long established minor hockey league system and the citizens in general know and follow the NHL. Unlike PHX etc.

So not like PHX at all. Not to mention Seattle actually has a winter unlike PHX.
Seattle makes a hell of lot more sense than PHX, FLA, TAM, NSH or CAR for that matter where the attendence is also ridiculously low.

[Puppet Guy]

they could dust off these old posters for the season ticket drive:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitter_production/profile_images/263606273/3128216188_5ec3e2894c.jpg

[Coach]

I've always liked the idea of having a team in Seattle. I think It would go over really well and you would also get a decent amount of rival Canadian fans coming to games which would certainly build rivalries pretty quickly IMO.

[Bertuzzied]

Seattle Roughriders

[Resolute 14]

except that
Seattle actually has a long established minor hockey league system and the citizens in general know and follow the NHL. Unlike PHX etc.

So not like PHX at all. Not to mention Seattle actually has a winter unlike PHX.
Seattle makes a hell of lot more sense than PHX, FLA, TAM, NSH or CAR for that matter where the attendence is also ridiculously low.

Tampa: 18,474 per game, ahead of the likes of Boston, Buffalo and Edmonton.

Florida: 16,685 and Nashville: 16,600, both comparable to Edmonton.

Carolina: 15,489, ahead of Colorado.

[hwy19man]

NFL, MLB, MLS, eventual NBA, Washington Huskies.

WHL teams in Kent and Everett. PCL in Tacoma and NWL in Everett.

Seattle is heavily saturated already. The NHL would be a tough go. I think the NHL would be okay going into the Seattle sports market but, I agree that it could be more difficult because of so many other sport options. In that case, the NHL and prospective owners should consider Portland, Oregon in the wonderful Rose Garden just 280 kilometres south of Seattle.

[Red Slinger]

I seem to recall a time in the 80's where there was some interest in bringing the NHL to Seattle but there simply wasn't any local appetite for it. It seems to me that people see the population (really big), the geographic location (close to Vancouver and California) and the natural fit into the western conference and want a team to work in Seattle.

However, I still fear that there isn't a local appetite for the NHL.

[FireItUp]

Well if they bring the Seattle SuperSonics back they should name their NHL team the Seattle SuperStorms. :whistle:

[SportsJunky]

I think the NHL would be okay going into the Seattle sports market but, I agree that it could be more difficult because of so many other sport options. In that case, the NHL and prospective owners should consider Portland, Oregon in the wonderful Rose Garden just 280 kilometres south of Seattle.
When I lived in Portland there was a referendum on bringing hockey to the city. The answer was an unequivocal no. I'm pretty sure that Seattle has had a referendum on this issue previously as well and the answer was the same. There was little support for NHL hockey in either city although it's possible that this sentiment could be changing I guess. These are cities that are very wrapped up in college sports. Also, Portland has always wanted a MLB team before anything else.

[Josh]

When I lived in Portland there was a referendum on bringing hockey to the city. The answer was an unequivocal no. I'm pretty sure that Seattle has had a referendum on this issue previously as well and the answer was the same. There was little support for NHL hockey in either city although it's possible that this sentiment could be changing I guess. These are cities that are very wrapped up in college sports. Also, Portland has always wanted a MLB team before anything else.

Portland and the state of Oregon in general are too busy building meth trains (MAX) and squandering money on other useless pet projects to even consider something nice like a sports team. Portland will NEVER have another Major league franchise other than the blazers (sorry the MLS doesn't count as "major").

As for a team up in Seattle, I'd travel up there to watch flames games!

[sandlakislord]

Tampa: 18,474 per game, ahead of the likes of Boston, Buffalo and Edmonton.

Florida: 16,685 and Nashville: 16,600, both comparable to Edmonton.

Carolina: 15,489, ahead of Colorado.

i don't want to drag this to far off topic, but stay golden and resolute 14 had an interesting exchange concerning attendance. attendance is a red-herring when it comes to arguing viability of a franchise in the nhl. the nhl is a gate-driven league and nothing demonstrates that better than attendance vs gate receipts.

yes, tampa has impressive attendance numbers, but they are papering the crowd with some of the cheapest seats in the league. tampa had the 4th lowest per-game gate revenue in the entire league last year. only atlanta, phoenix and the islanders pulled in less money per game. to compare, calgary generated 1.5 million usd/game from straight gate receipts in 2010/2011. tampa, with its impressive attendance, (17,285 in 2010/2011) generated a measly 440,000usd/game last year. calgary averaged 1,062 more fans per home date than tampa but pulled in almost three times the ticket revenue. you'll find a link to these numbers in this blog post from january of this year: http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=4102

all that being said, i would love to see an nba team back in seattle. an nhl team would be the cherry on top.

[tomo]

Very intresting view. When i was growing up playing midget aaa, seattle only had two minor hockey associations....talking to guys who played in the Lower mainland league, the two teams from seattle were a joke. Hockey just never seemed to be a popular concept in seattle. Rinks were few and few between, I believe one of the associations even played in an old grocery store/mall? something to that affect.

Oshie coming out of washington state was an absolute shocker. I dont know what its like now but in my day minor hockey in seattle was very uncommon. compare it to a place like Chicago.....where they have programs such as the Chicago chill or team illinois who entered the macs regularly, i find it very surprising that you see more of a hockey youth movment in seattle compared to chicago.

Would love to see a team in seattle but I was always under the impression hockey at the grass roots level in seattle was very bare.


The grass roots hockey programs are in full bloom here now.
The Greater Seattle Hockey League is the largets in the northwest and one of the largets hockey leagues in the United States. Tonight one of the league reps told me it is bigger than the leagues in Chicago.

The Seattle Times reported that there is three proposed plans and one has been submitted to city counsel already (which would be next to Safeco field). Rumor around town is that Paul Allen is part of it. They were also saying that Bellevue would be preferred for NBA/NHL because when the Sonics were around around 60-70% of season ticket holders were from the Eastside (Bellevue/Redmond/etc..).

The Paul Allen thing makes a lot of sense to me. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't he try to buy the Canucks in the late 90's? He owns the Portland Trailblazers, do the blazers move to Seattle?

[afc wimbledon]

The grass roots hockey programs are in full bloom here now.
The Greater Seattle Hockey League is the largets in the northwest and one of the largets hockey leagues in the United States. Tonight one of the league reps told me it is bigger than the leagues in Chicago.

The Seattle Times reported that there is three proposed plans and one has been submitted to city counsel already (which would be next to Safeco field). Rumor around town is that Paul Allen is part of it. They were also saying that Bellevue would be preferred for NBA/NHL because when the Sonics were around around 60-70% of season ticket holders were from the Eastside (Bellevue/Redmond/etc..).

The Paul Allen thing makes a lot of sense to me. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't he try to buy the Canucks in the late 90's? He owns the Portland Trailblazers, do the blazers move to Seattle?

Wasn't aware of it, if Allen wanted them he could have bought them, the Nucks weren't really expensive in the late 90's so I doubt he was interested.
I do recall there was fear that he would to ship them to Portland but I think that was more newspaper fearmongering after the Grizzlies were sold/shipped.

[valo403]

When I lived in Portland there was a referendum on bringing hockey to the city. The answer was an unequivocal no. I'm pretty sure that Seattle has had a referendum on this issue previously as well and the answer was the same. There was little support for NHL hockey in either city although it's possible that this sentiment could be changing I guess. These are cities that are very wrapped up in college sports. Also, Portland has always wanted a MLB team before anything else.

They had a referendum on whether people wanted a hockey team? Yeah I doubt that. What they likely had was a referendum on publicly funding arena construction (that's actually a political issue, where 'do you like hockey?' is not) and that area has a pretty long history of being tough to convince when it comes to public funding.

[Josh]

They had a referendum on whether people wanted a hockey team? Yeah I doubt that. What they likely had was a referendum on publicly funding arena construction (that's actually a political issue, where 'do you like hockey?' is not) and that area has a pretty long history of being tough to convince when it comes to public funding.

Wrong, the Rose Garden (the building itself) would be an excellent NHL venue as the bowl was designed around a hockey rink. Now the city itself would likely not support it.

BTW, if the rumored Seattle billionare is Paul Allen, don't be surprised if the Blazers become the relocated NBA franchise to Seattle.

[Pacem]

Tampa: 18,474 per game, ahead of the likes of Boston, Buffalo and Edmonton.

Florida: 16,685 and Nashville: 16,600, both comparable to Edmonton.

Carolina: 15,489, ahead of Colorado.

How much money are they making tho? Attendance per game isn't the greatest measure of how well a team is doing. It is all about $$$

You know Edmonton is bringing in more money per game then Tampa, Florida, Nashville, and Carolina. Boston is definitely doing that as well. Buffalo, prolly. They got a ton of pre season hype and i'm sure a lot of fans were buying into it. Colorado, maybe? They have a pretty good short history with the team, so I think they would be.

[valo403]

Wrong, the Rose Garden (the building itself) would be an excellent NHL venue as the bowl was designed around a hockey rink. Now the city itself would likely not support it.

BTW, if the rumored Seattle billionare is Paul Allen, don't be surprised if the Blazers become the relocated NBA franchise to Seattle.

Wrong? Huh? I didn't even comment on the Rose Garden, or anything to do with Portland.

[valo403]

How much money are they making tho? Attendance per game isn't the greatest measure of how well a team is doing. It is all about $$$

You know Edmonton is bringing in more money per game then Tampa, Florida, Nashville, and Carolina. Boston is definitely doing that as well. Buffalo, prolly. They got a ton of pre season hype and i'm sure a lot of fans were buying into it. Colorado, maybe? They have a pretty good short history with the team, so I think they would be.

Just looking at how much a team is making from ticket revenues also isn't the greatest measure of how well a team is doing.

What are their concession revenues? What's their corporate support like? What's their advertisement sales revenue? What are there expenses?

There are so many factors, and they vary from team to team, that looking at any one thing as a gauge of the health of a franchise is flawed.

[Resolute 14]

How much money are they making tho? Attendance per game isn't the greatest measure of how well a team is doing. It is all about $$$

You know Edmonton is bringing in more money per game then Tampa, Florida, Nashville, and Carolina. Boston is definitely doing that as well. Buffalo, prolly. They got a ton of pre season hype and i'm sure a lot of fans were buying into it. Colorado, maybe? They have a pretty good short history with the team, so I think they would be.

No doubt. That wasn't the thrust of my argument though. I was just rebutting the faulty assumption that "nobody attends games in the south, hyuk hyuk".

Valo notes below that there is much more to revenue than just ticket sales, but it is also very true that ticket sales drives the league. From the standpoint of finances, all we have, really, is Forbes' estimates. Here (http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/#p_1_s_a5_) is last year's revenue estimates, from lowest to highest.

Disregarding Atlanta/Winnipeg since that data is clearly stale, it is interesting to note that Forbes estimated the St. Louis Blues as the third worst generator of revenue. The Canes, Preds and Panthers near the bottom as well, as one would expect, but right there with Colorado, Tampa, Buffalo and Dallas. Now, this was last year's numbers. Several teams have seen huge changes in attendance from last year to this: Columbus +1541 (+12%), Dallas -1774 (-12%), Florida +1657 (+11%), Isles +2601 (+26%), Tampa Bay +1670 (+10%), Winnipeg* +6936 (+86%). Even Phoenix is up 750 per game. In those cases, their revenue will be rising as well.

[tomo]

Wrong, the Rose Garden (the building itself) would be an excellent NHL venue as the bowl was designed around a hockey rink. Now the city itself would likely not support it.

BTW, if the rumored Seattle billionare is Paul Allen, don't be surprised if the Blazers become the relocated NBA franchise to Seattle.


On the news here (I think it was KOMO news) they were talking about how the Rose Garden is out of date and they need a new building in Portland as well.

I would agree that if Paul Allen is behind the bid here that the Blazers will have some sort of future change, be it by being sold or moved.

[bizaro86]

What are their concession revenues? What's their corporate support like? What's their advertisement sales revenue? What are there expenses?

I bet most of those other things (concessions, corporate support, advertising) are highly correlated to ticket revenue. If the hockey team is the #1 draw in town, it'll attract the corporate support. If nobody cares, then not so much.

Granted, there are some exceptions (the Islanders TV deal, etc) but it's probably as good a basis as anything else for estimating those revenues.

[valo403]

I bet most of those other things (concessions, corporate support, advertising) are highly correlated to ticket revenue. If the hockey team is the #1 draw in town, it'll attract the corporate support. If nobody cares, then not so much.

Granted, there are some exceptions (the Islanders TV deal, etc) but it's probably as good a basis as anything else for estimating those revenues.

It may get you in the ballpark, but it's not going to get you anywhere close to an accurate read on franchise health, especially when you consider that a modern professional sports franchise is but one entity in a maze of related companies. Losses for company A don't mean anything if they're due to payments made to company B.

My point is that I find that people generally take a far too simplistic view of these things.

[North East Goon]

Seattle Lumberjacks
Seattle Pilots
Seattle Grizzlies
Seattle Cascades
Seattle Emeralds
Seattle Salmon
Seattle Rainiers

[Josh]

On the news here (I think it was KOMO news) they were talking about how the Rose Garden is out of date and they need a new building in Portland as well.

I would agree that if Paul Allen is behind the bid here that the Blazers will have some sort of future change, be it by being sold or moved.

I'm by no means a Portland "homer" but that's the first time I've ever heard someone regard to the rose garden as being "out of date". It was constructed in 1995 and recently underwent a minor facelift. I'm rather curious as to why it's now considered to be an out of date facility./

[tomo]

I'm by no means a Portland "homer" but that's the first time I've ever heard someone regard to the rose garden as being "out of date". It was constructed in 1995 and recently underwent a minor facelift. I'm rather curious as to why it's now considered to be an out of date facility./

It has to be part of the Paul Allen angle.
I think it is crazy to think the Blazers would ever leave Portland, but I said the same thing about the Sonics. I guess only time will tell.

My personal belief is that if Paul Allen is involved in the Seattle team/arena is that he sells the Rose Garden and the Blazers and the NBA expands by one team back to Seattle.

Opinions?

[afc wimbledon]

The NBA and Paul Allen would look like absoloute tools if they let the Blazers move into Seattle a few years after letting the Sonics walk. It would be a PR debacle.

[valo403]

The NBA and Paul Allen would look like absoloute tools if they let the Blazers move into Seattle a few years after letting the Sonics walk. It would be a PR debacle.

How? The Sonics left Seattle because they didn't have an NBA caliber arena to play in. That team wasn't allowed to walk, it was forced to walk. If that changes, and a new arena is built, it's a whole new landscape. I don't think Portland would be the most logical team to move, but it's not an issue of picking team A and moving them where you feel like it, you have to have owners who are willing to own a team in Seattle as opposed to another market.

[afc wimbledon]

How? The Sonics left Seattle because they didn't have an NBA caliber arena to play in. That team wasn't allowed to walk, it was forced to walk. If that changes, and a new arena is built, it's a whole new landscape. I don't think Portland would be the most logical team to move, but it's not an issue of picking team A and moving them where you feel like it, you have to have owners who are willing to own a team in Seattle as opposed to another market.

The NBA are in a whole heap of trouble wiith small market teams already, the image of a billionaire owner moviing his team out of a perfectly good arena into a new city a bit closer to his house would not play well.

It would also be a huge message to any city thinking about building an arena, don't bother as they only want another one in 15 years.

[seattleflamer]

I dont' want to go too off topic but the Trailblazers won't leave Portland because of the solid fanbase and Allen is committed to the city. There not coming to Seattle imho.

As for the Sonics leaving, Shultz sold when he couldn't get the same sweetheart taxpayer subsidy that the Seahawks/Mariners received. The new owner played the game but in the end had absolutely no intention of keeping the team in Seattle.

Key Arena was all fixed up and Stern gave it the stamp of approval yet 7/8 years later, it was suddenly not a NBA quality facility?

Whatever, I went to lot of Sonics games, it was fun but I feel that the NBA will get a very cold reception as long as Stern is the Commish in Seattle versus the tabla rasa of a shiny new toy like the Seattle Coyotes to the average sports fan.

[valo403]

I dont' want to go too off topic but the Trailblazers won't leave Portland because of the solid fanbase and Allen is committed to the city. There not coming to Seattle imho.

As for the Sonics leaving, Shultz sold when he couldn't get the same sweetheart taxpayer subsidy that the Seahawks/Mariners received. The new owner played the game but in the end had absolutely no intention of keeping the team in Seattle.

Key Arena was all fixed up and Stern gave it the stamp of approval yet 7/8 years later, it was suddenly not a NBA quality facility?

Whatever, I went to lot of Sonics games, it was fun but I feel that the NBA will get a very cold reception as long as Stern is the Commish in Seattle versus the tabla rasa of a shiny new toy like the Seattle Coyotes to the average sports fan.

You can put makeup on a pig but it's still a pig. That building wasn't NBA quality.

[seattleflamer]

You can put makeup on a pig but it's still a pig. That building wasn't NBA quality.

Except for the fact an NBA team played in the facility for decades. You're in NYC, I assume you've schelped down to Islander games just to take a peek. You're telling me NCC (or whatever it is called now) is NHL quality yet an NHL franchise plays there and it was bad when I went to games in mid/late 90s.

I don't recall Bettman forcing the Isles to move?

Is Key Arena state of the art and the most modern NBA facility? No and I'm not saying that but it was functional without all the bell and whistles. I don't recall Stern making the Sonics move based on Key Arena. He did support Bennett's plan however.

And frankly, if the Kings move to Seattle, guess where they'll play for a couple of years? Not the Tacoma Dome.

[valo403]

Except for the fact an NBA team played in the facility for decades. You're in NYC, I assume you've schelped down to Islander games just to take a peek. You're telling me NCC (or whatever it is called now) is NHL quality yet an NHL franchise plays there and it was bad when I went to games in mid/late 90s.

I don't recall Bettman forcing the Isles to move?

Is Key Arena state of the art and the most modern NBA facility? No and I'm not saying that but it was functional without all the bell and whistles. I don't recall Stern making the Sonics move based on Key Arena. He did support Bennett's plan however.

And frankly, if the Kings move to Seattle, guess where they'll play for a couple of years? Not the Tacoma Dome.

Wait, where did I tell you that? Nassau Colliseum is a dump, it is anything but NHL quality, and if the Isles don't get a new building they will be moving. How you came to the conclusion that I think it's NHL quality is baffling.

You somehow seem to think that the presence of an NBA team in a building makes it NBA quality. Does that mean that Alaska Airlines Arena becomes NBA quality if the Kings play a couple of seasons there? Would the Olympia be NHL quality today if the Wings still played in it? I mean after all, an NHL team played in it for decades.

BTW, commissioners don't make owners move teams, owners move teams because their current location is less desirable than another location. A major factor in that is the arena.

[Flash Walken]

Actually, I think there is a strong comparable between the situation on the Island and the situation with the Sonics.

In the end, civic (and state) politics took precedent over a major sports team. It looks like the same thing will play out in Long Island.

That doesn't mean things can't change in the future, but, cities like Seattle that stick to their guns are likely to reap the future benefits when private money decides that it's worth it, even if the public doesn't subsidize the building, like what seems to be happening right now.

I think Seattle expansion is a great idea.

[Azure]

Doesn't Everett have a WHL team as well? So that makes 5 WHL teams in the Pacific Northwest, right?

[saskflames69]

Doesn't Everett have a WHL team as well? So that makes 5 WHL teams in the Pacific Northwest, right?7 if you include BC.
Portland, Seattle, Everest, Kennewick, Spokane, Vancouver, Victoria

[seattleflamer]

Wait, where did I tell you that? Nassau Colliseum is a dump, it is anything but NHL quality, and if the Isles don't get a new building they will be moving. How you came to the conclusion that I think it's NHL quality is baffling.

You somehow seem to think that the presence of an NBA team in a building makes it NBA quality. Does that mean that Alaska Airlines Arena becomes NBA quality if the Kings play a couple of seasons there? Would the Olympia be NHL quality today if the Wings still played in it? I mean after all, an NHL team played in it for decades.


You didn't tell me anything. It's a figure of speech, my friend....(oops did it again).

Anyway, I apologize if it you took it as putting words in your mouth.

My point is there are several facilities in both leagues that are far from ideal yet it works well enough for leagues to endorse play, the fans to show up and the owners make money year after year like Nassau or Key did in the NBA. Key was good enough until Bennett arbitrarily said it wasn't with league support. Were cement blocks falling on people or people going outside to take a whiz because of the poor facilities inside or was it more a question of not enough luxury boxes to maximize revenue or taxpayer based concessions to mitigate cost outlays? Did it need to be replaced or remodeled to bring it up to current NBA/NHL league standards? Sure it does/did.

And yes, if Stern lets the Kings play at Key Arena, it implies that the facility must meet league standards at least at a minimum level which it didn't 4 years ago. It makes you wonder how Stern lets the other league he is commissioner of, you know the WNBA's Storm, play at an inadequate facility like Key? I haven't heard they're moving to a new facility based on quality of facility.

How could the PAC 12 and NCAA Division I allow team like WAZZU and Gongaza play basketball games at the "too good for the NBA" Key year after year or host NCAA Tournaments at the Key? What is so different I wonder?

Arbitrary, my friend, complete and utter arbitrariness related more to stiffing the taxpayer and government for good old corporate welfare. The proverbial free lunch.

[Plett25]

Seattle Cascadians

[valo403]

You didn't tell me anything. It's a figure of speech, my friend....(oops did it again).

Anyway, I apologize if it you took it as putting words in your mouth.

My point is there are several facilities in both leagues that are far from ideal yet it works well enough for leagues to endorse play, the fans to show up and the owners make money year after year like Nassau or Key did in the NBA. Key was good enough until Bennett arbitrarily said it wasn't with league support. Were cement blocks falling on people or people going outside to take a whiz because of the poor facilities inside or was it more a question of not enough luxury boxes to maximize revenue or taxpayer based concessions to mitigate cost outlays? Did it need to be replaced or remodeled to bring it up to current NBA/NHL league standards? Sure it does/did.

And yes, if Stern lets the Kings play at Key Arena, it implies that the facility must meet league standards at least at a minimum level which it didn't 4 years ago. It makes you wonder how Stern lets the other league he is commissioner of, you know the WNBA's Storm, play at an inadequate facility like Key? I haven't heard they're moving to a new facility based on quality of facility.

How could the PAC 12 and NCAA Division I allow team like WAZZU and Gongaza play basketball games at the "too good for the NBA" Key year after year or host NCAA Tournaments at the Key? What is so different I wonder?

Arbitrary, my friend, complete and utter arbitrariness related more to stiffing the taxpayer and government for good old corporate welfare. The proverbial free lunch.

I'm not sure if you get that 'cement not falling from the roof' is not the measure of whether or not something is good enough to be considered NBA/NHL quality. The measure is exactly what you appear to dismiss, the ability to maximize revenue. This is a multi-billion dollar business, and it's run as such. I don't get the confusion.

The WNBA reference is total nonsense. Once again, the measure isn't the ability for the roof to stay up, it's the ability to maximize revenue. You don't need much to do that in a league that attracts a couple thousand people to it's games at most. The same analysis applies to your equally nonsense example of Wazzu and Gonzaga. Those games may be sold out, but they are one off games and therefore operate in a complete different realm.

Btw, did you really reference owners making money year after year and Nassau in the same sentence? The Isles are hemorrhaging money, largely due to their arena situation.

[Josh]

7 if you include BC.
Portland, Seattle, Everest, Kennewick, Spokane, Vancouver, Victoria

8. Kelowna

[tomo]

Seattle Press conference 2pm (pst) on Thursday.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017517805_hansen16m.html

"NBA arena backer to reveal Seattle plan Thursday
Christopher Hansen, the wealthy San Francisco mystery man who wants to build a sports arena in Seattle to lure NBA and NHL teams, will unveil his proposal at a news conference Thursday, according to two city sources"

[missdpuck]

Seattle Soundgardens

[flylock shox]

Seattle Chief Boot Knockas

[tomo]

So sounds like it could be the Sacramento Kings as the nba team

http://seattle.sbnation.com/2012/2/14/2798592/nba-seattle-sacramento-kings-supersonics-christopher-hansen


They said on the Fan960 last week that Phoenix is probably the nhl team.

I think I would prefer Florida or Columbus.
That way Winnipeg could stay in the East

[kyuss275]

So sounds like it could be the Sacramento Kings as the nba team

http://seattle.sbnation.com/2012/2/14/2798592/nba-seattle-sacramento-kings-supersonics-christopher-hansen

and then most likely the Phoenix Coyotes?

They said on the Fan960 last week that Phoenix is probably the nhl team

How could it be either of those teams? They have no arena, it will take 5 years to build it.

[browna]

Actually, I think there is a strong comparable between the situation on the Island and the situation with the Sonics.

In the end, civic (and state) politics took precedent over a major sports team. It looks like the same thing will play out in Long Island.

That doesn't mean things can't change in the future, but, cities like Seattle that stick to their guns are likely to reap the future benefits when private money decides that it's worth it, even if the public doesn't subsidize the building, like what seems to be happening right now.

I think Seattle expansion is a great idea.

To a point its the same. However, Seattle more or less publiclly finananced the new baseball stadium in the early 2000's, and new football stadium a couple years after. The downtown arena a few years after that was bad timing.
The arena was no better then the old American Airlines (I think) arena in Phoeni, where the Suns and Coyotes played, but new arenas were on the way, plus Phoenix had ownership tight with the NBA office.
Suprised Sacramento lasted as long as they have. I was in that arena in the mid 1990's and its far too small (similar to the AA Arena in PHX) for an NBA team and no room for renos, and on top of that the city itself doesn't have the market to draw from.

I think this guy will be going after NBA team hard, with an NHL team as a consolation prize...but lets see his arena plan first and if its one like Katz....the "I'll put up 1/2 the funds for the arena, buy the NBA franchise with local investors, but the rest needs to come from somewhere else and then we'll have an NBA team, for a fraction it would've cost the taxpayers to have kept the Sonics back when" sell job.

[hwy19man]

The arena was no better then the old American Airlines (I think) arena in Phoeni, where the Suns and Coyotes played, but new arenas were on the way, plus Phoenix had ownership tight with the NBA office. The old building is the Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum where the Suns first played. Next came the America West Arena which is now called the US Airways Centre where the Coyotes played and the Suns still play in that building. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Veterans_Memorial_Coliseum

[seattleflamer]

To a point its the same. However, Seattle more or less publiclly finananced the new baseball stadium in the early 2000's, and new football stadium a couple years after. The downtown arena a few years after that was bad timing.
The arena was no better then the old American Airlines (I think) arena in Phoeni, where the Suns and Coyotes played, but new arenas were on the way, plus Phoenix had ownership tight with the NBA office.
Suprised Sacramento lasted as long as they have. I was in that arena in the mid 1990's and its far too small (similar to the AA Arena in PHX) for an NBA team and no room for renos, and on top of that the city itself doesn't have the market to draw from.

I think this guy will be going after NBA team hard, with an NHL team as a consolation prize...but lets see his arena plan first and if its one like Katz....the "I'll put up 1/2 the funds for the arena, buy the NBA franchise with local investors, but the rest needs to come from somewhere else and then we'll have an NBA team, for a fraction it would've cost the taxpayers to have kept the Sonics back when" sell job.

My understanding is Hansen is all about the NBA with another group (Bellevue?) that is interested in the NHL franchise. Their combining forces for a new arena.

I do think Phoenix is going to Quebec which is more ready at this point. As for the NBA, it could be a couple/three teams moving back.

[seattleflamer]

I'm not sure if you get that 'cement not falling from the roof' is not the measure of whether or not something is good enough to be considered NBA/NHL quality. The measure is exactly what you appear to dismiss, the ability to maximize revenue. This is a multi-billion dollar business, and it's run as such. I don't get the confusion.

The WNBA reference is total nonsense. Once again, the measure isn't the ability for the roof to stay up, it's the ability to maximize revenue. You don't need much to do that in a league that attracts a couple thousand people to it's games at most. The same analysis applies to your equally nonsense example of Wazzu and Gonzaga. Those games may be sold out, but they are one off games and therefore operate in a complete different realm. .

My measurement was what conditions must exist for an NBA (less so NHL) franchise to be viable in Seattle per the OP? IMHO, stadium, check! If it's good enough for the other pro basketball team and that other multibillion sports industry called college sports with 1 college playing all their home games there (Seattle U) then it probably won't be too bad for the Sonics.

It is fairly obvious that unless you're the Yankees or Redsox, some small to mid size professional sports team need public funds to exist in the current cost structure. If that is the case in Seattle's situation, they're won't be a new team(s) here.

And again, there was a team here for 41 years. So there is a good bet it was making money for the owners one way or the other (public dole or otherwise)


Btw, did you really reference owners making money year after year and Nassau in the same sentence? The Isles are hemorrhaging money, largely due to their arena situation.

That's an interesting business model then since the Isles having been in the red even before Wang bought them playing in NCC.

He must not be much of a businessman losing money year after year. I guess he must do it for the love of the game and the love of Nassau County.

[valo403]

My measurement was what conditions must exist for an NBA (less so NHL) franchise to be viable in Seattle per the OP? IMHO, stadium, check! If it's good enough for the other pro basketball team and that other multibillion sports industry called college sports with 1 college playing all their home games there (Seattle U) then it probably won't be too bad for the Sonics.

It is fairly obvious that unless you're the Yankees or Redsox, some small to mid size professional sports team need public funds to exist in the current cost structure. If that is the case in Seattle's situation, they're won't be a new team(s) here.

And again, there was a team here for 41 years. So there is a good bet it was making money for the owners one way or the other (public dole or otherwise)




That's an interesting business model then since the Isles having been in the red even before Wang bought them playing in NCC.

He must not be much of a businessman losing money year after year. I guess he must do it for the love of the game and the love of Nassau County.

Umm, actually he did it as a means to leverage his way into building the multi-billion dollar Lighthouse complex. You need to understand that owning a professional sports team is about more than the professional sports team.

[c.t.ner]

Didn't see anyone post this, but this is from the news conference going on right now. (These are tweets are from a National Post Sports Columnist watching the live feed)

bruce_arthur (http://twitter.com/bruce_arthur) 5:13pm via web (http://twitter.com/bruce_arthur/status/170269486648270848) Seattle mayor: Hansen is willing to invest $500M towards a team and an arena, with the city maxed out at $200M, with protections. Strong.


5:16pm via web (http://twitter.com/bruce_arthur/status/170270337697718273) Hansen would be willing to pour $300M into an arena that the city would eventually own, and cover shortfalls in city investment. Wow.


Here's the live feed of the news conference.

(http://www.king5.com/live-stream/pop-up-ads/Watch-live-now-116248999.html)
http://www.king5.com/live-stream/pop-up-ads/Watch-live-now-116248999.html

[c.t.ner]

Full recap of what was announced.

http://www.nwsportsbeat.com/coffee-shop/seattle-arena-update-press-conference-recap-16212/

“Project does NOT rely on NEW taxes, it would be self-funding, IN any given year shortfalls would be covered by the teams. NO Public subsidies. The Proposal is built with understanding of having both NBA and NHL teams in the facility.”


The Proposal is to construct an arena in the SODO area that would accomadate NHL, NBA & Concert events, Existing taxes to be used toward the facility will only use revenue streams created by the building itself.

Intresting turn of events. Sounds like the majority of the project will be self funded. No new taxes for the Seattle/King County area. The context of the statement sounds like it's ready to go.

Seattle Coyotes for the 2012-13 season?

[Vulcan]

Hansen is not willing to put any money in until he secures a team (NBA I guess) and the other guy (NHL suitor?) says he's not going to put any money in until Hansen does. Anyways it sounds like they have concrete plans and the money to make it happen.

[kyuss275]

Full recap of what was announced.

http://www.nwsportsbeat.com/coffee-shop/seattle-arena-update-press-conference-recap-16212/





Intresting turn of events. Sounds like the majority of the project will be self funded. No new taxes for the Seattle/King County area. The context of the statement sounds like it's ready to go.

Seattle Coyotes for the 2012-13 season?

Very surprised by this. I really thought Hannsen was going to come in with some nice blue prints, small amount of money and then try to get the city to pay for it. He means bussiness. As a resident of Victoria that goes to Seattle often, i hope this happens.

[schooner]

Ive only been down to Seattle a couple times, to watch the Mariners and the Seahawks, so that and the I5 is the extent of my knowledge of the area. Just curious where the SODO area is? Arena location can be very important as far as access within a metropolis is concerned. A prime example is the Coyotes who would prob be better served in downtown Phoenix.

[c.t.ner]

Ive only been down to Seattle a couple times, to watch the Mariners and the Seahawks, so that and the I5 is the extent of my knowledge of the area. Just curious where the SODO area is? Arena location can be very important as far as access within a metropolis is concerned. A prime example is the Coyotes who would prob be better served in downtown Phoenix.

From the sounds of it, the land they are talking about is just south of Safeco. The area is just south of the main downtown regions.

They’re asking it because we know for certain that Chris Hansen’s Valiant Partners of San Francisco purchased a three acre piece of property south of Safeco Field, for $21 Million

From the article a couple of posts up.

[kyuss275]

Ive only been down to Seattle a couple times, to watch the Mariners and the Seahawks, so that and the I5 is the extent of my knowledge of the area. Just curious where the SODO area is? Arena location can be very important as far as access within a metropolis is concerned. A prime example is the Coyotes who would prob be better served in downtown Phoenix.


If i remember right it's the industrial area next to Safeco field. It would be nothing like glendale.

[fundmark19]

I hope this happens! Any excuse to go to seattle during potential playoffs hockey - baseball -basketball sport trips is fine by me!

[Joborule]

Damn, seems like this NBA and NHL in Seatle momentum is ramping up fast. They ain't holding anything back.

Hope it comes through. Would love to have another NHL team in the Northwest US.

[tomo]

Ive only been down to Seattle a couple times, to watch the Mariners and the Seahawks, so that and the I5 is the extent of my knowledge of the area. Just curious where the SODO area is? Arena location can be very important as far as access within a metropolis is concerned. A prime example is the Coyotes who would prob be better served in downtown Phoenix.

SoDo = South of Downtown

[slcrocket]

Listened to the presser live...really excited about the possibilities. There are still some things that will need cleaning up even IF the arena gets built. Trying to figure out how to get people in and out of that area of town when it's already a nightmare will be quite the job...Seattle's public transportation is a long ways behind many major markets in the US (not to mention that the viaduct construction project, IF it runs on time, won't be done until 2016).

That being said, I hope they rename the Coyotes to the Metropolitans. :)

[vennegoor of hesselink]

My question for the people on here from the Seattle area is can Seattle support 5 major league teams as in that market the Sounders have to be considered major league with what they are drawing (37,000 i believe) and maybe not major league prices to go to games but its not a cheap ticket by any means. Plus there is UW Football and Basketball to contend with.

When i was there in Sept 2010 it seemed like it was in terms of popularity

1. Seahawks
2. Sounders
3. Mariners

[seattleflamer]

Listened to the presser live...really excited about the possibilities. There are still some things that will need cleaning up even IF the arena gets built. Trying to figure out how to get people in and out of that area of town when it's already a nightmare will be quite the job...Seattle's public transportation is a long ways behind many major markets in the US (not to mention that the viaduct construction project, IF it runs on time, won't be done until 2016).

That being said, I hope they rename the Coyotes to the Metropolitans. :)

+1 to Metropolitans.

Lots of questions especially on the public financing but cautiously optimistic at this very early stage. The cynic in me rolls my eyes with the slick PR firm portraying Hansen as a local boy making good.

He is a billionaire whose primary focus is ROI and bringing back the Sonics secondary which is fine but that is not how he is being depicted.

[hwy19man]

Ive only been down to Seattle a couple times, to watch the Mariners and the Seahawks, so that and the I5 is the extent of my knowledge of the area. Just curious where the SODO area is? Arena location can be very important as far as access within a metropolis is concerned. A prime example is the Coyotes who would prob be better served in downtown Phoenix.

From the sounds of it, the land they are talking about is just south of Safeco. The area is just south of the main downtown regions.


SoDo = South of Downtown That is correct. Cities use this acronym for proximities to the city core and are usually comprised of mixed use developments.

In the United States, other cities use similar acronyms:

Denver, Colorado has an area similarly called LoDo (Lower Downtown).
Omaha, Nebraska has NoDo (North Downtown).

[c.t.ner]

It's interesting and I think alot of people have already brought up some of the pit falls already. One of the biggest ones is that according to this press conference, a NHL team would be a tennant in the stadium and wouldn't recieve concessions and as a gate driven league this might not be an optimal solution for an NHL team. Albeit, this is just speculation at the moment.

That being said, the overall picture skeptic in me sees the NHL already pushing to sell the Coyotes franchise to a potential owner in Seattle. I know everyone is talking about Quebec as the main destination, but something in me just can't see Bettman losing two American market teams to Canada in two years. A sale to a Seattle group dying to have a major tenant seams far to logical. Plus unlike, say a Florida (although I don't think they are in desperate need for relocation, just an example) or a New York Islanders, the NHL has full control over the sale.

That being said, I'll wait for SCH to come in and crush my speculation in a matter of seconds.

[getbak]

I think because the League owns the Coyotes, they'll want to maximize the value they get from the sale, so a bidding war between Seattle and Quebec City (and Kansas City and/or Houston, or anyone else) would be in the League's best interest. It would also allow them to find out if there is enough interest in a possible expansion.


The biggest hurdle for Seattle right now will be where to play for what would likely be at least 3 seasons before the new building is opened. The Key Arena has a capacity of about 10,000 for hockey and a number of those seats have obscured views of the ice. The arena in Everett where the Silvertips play has a capacity of about 8,500, but it's designed for hockey, so they would all be good seats. The problem is that Everett is 30 miles from where the new arena would be, where Key Arena is only on the north side of downtown Seattle.

[hwy19man]

The biggest hurdle for Seattle right now will be where to play for what would likely be at least 3 seasons before the new building is opened. The Key Arena has a capacity of about 10,000 for hockey and a number of those seats have obscured views of the ice. The arena in Everett where the Silvertips play has a capacity of about 8,500, but it's designed for hockey, so they would all be good seats. The problem is that Everett is 30 miles from where the new arena would be, where Key Arena is only on the north side of downtown Seattle. That is the major problem, no suitably sized building to play in for that period of time. Tacoma and its dome there (not the best venue either) is 54 km south of Seattle. Another wild idea would be for the team team to play in Portland, Oregon at the Rose Garden (an excellent facility), 233 km south of Seattle.

[afc wimbledon]

I think because the League owns the Coyotes, they'll want to maximize the value they get from the sale, so a bidding war between Seattle and Quebec City (and Kansas City and/or Houston, or anyone else) would be in the League's best interest. It would also allow them to find out if there is enough interest in a possible expansion.


The biggest hurdle for Seattle right now will be where to play for what would likely be at least 3 seasons before the new building is opened. The Key Arena has a capacity of about 10,000 for hockey and a number of those seats have obscured views of the ice. The arena in Everett where the Silvertips play has a capacity of about 8,500, but it's designed for hockey, so they would all be good seats. The problem is that Everett is 30 miles from where the new arena would be, where Key Arena is only on the north side of downtown Seattle.

I don't see any NHL hockey in Seattle until the new arena is built, there is no rush from an owners point of view, the league is in dire straights in several markets, it would make more sense to buy an existing team and leave them losing money where they are for a few years then move them.

[slcrocket]

The Tacoma Dome, while not an ideal venue, can reportedly seat around 15k-17k for hockey. It would work in the interim.

Can Seattle support five sports? I have the same question. Football is a lock as it is king...the Mariners are also a lock since there is enough history and baseball's profitability model doesn't force teams to sell out the majority of their games. The Sonics, given the right arena, would be fine as well as there is enough history and fan base to keep things going (even in the waning lame duck years, I recall that attendance was not a big issue).

So then you've got the Sounders and the NHL franchise. MLSer's are kind of a fringe group but, as previously mentioned, numerous enough to keep things going. Since the NHL season happens at roughly the same time as the NBA, I have some concerns that people will use their disposable income for something they knew and grew up with. However, the minor league hockey teams (Silvertips and Thunderbirds) still garner a lot of interest, and it's surprising how many Western Washington residents drive up to Vancouver because it's the closest venue. I think that the NHL would need a hell of a good marketing effort in its initial years in Seattle to survive, but I think it could.

[seattleflamer]

^^^I think the Sounders prove you can play and attract fans/attention during baseball and football season. I find most of the sports teams to be niche driven anyway except UW football/basketball.

It is certainly going to be a question mark until they try it. But really what is there to do with a disposable dollar on a week day evening in the middle of winter that doesn't involve getting wet? I loved going to Sonics games just for that reason.

Sounders prove that there is a substantial underground soccer market that can be translated into financial success. And I think there is a stronger and more established hockey base here than certainly anything in Florida, Texas or California had at the outset. There is a following for the Canucks and niche followings for 2 WHL franchises on opposite ends of the metro area so that speaks to something.

I agree with AFC that there won't be a rush to get a NHL team till an arena is built. Though I think it is a buyer's market which is prompting Hansen to act now for both a team, land and financing costs which are comparatively low. Do all those things happen if you wait? Maybe, maybe not.

On a side note, it is interesting on the same day of this announcement, Amazon bought a huge chunk of the Denny Triangle in downtown Seattle.

Apparently the city/county didn't offer to finance 40% of Bezo's cost to build 3 million sq ft of new office space. Hmmm.....

[Flash Walken]

With the momentum this has gathered in a short period of time, I wonder if the we'll see Seattle with a pro team in October, with an Arena built in 3 years time? Sounding an awful lot like Winnipeg.

[Wise Gamble]

Hope NBA comes to Seattle so I can finally go down and watch some games vs the Bulls/Thunder/Heat

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

That being said, the overall picture skeptic in me sees the NHL already pushing to sell the Coyotes franchise to a potential owner in Seattle. I know everyone is talking about Quebec as the main destination, but something in me just can't see Bettman losing two American market teams to Canada in two years. A sale to a Seattle group dying to have a major tenant seams far to logical. Plus unlike, say a Florida (although I don't think they are in desperate need for relocation, just an example) or a New York Islanders, the NHL has full control over the sale.

That being said, I'll wait for SCH to come in and crush my speculation in a matter of seconds.

Quebec is quite a bit further ahead than Seattle at this stage. Quebec has an owner, a building (coming...) and a market - Bettman's three main criteria. Seattle has no owner, no building (yet) and a market.

If Coyotes need to be moved quickly, it's Quebec. If they hang on for a couple of more years it may become a toss-up.

My personal opinion is Southern Ontario and Seattle will be expansion franchises in five years or so.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

That is correct. Cities use this acronym for proximities to the city core and are usually comprised of mixed use developments.

In the United States, other cities use similar acronyms:

Denver, Colorado has an area similarly called LoDo (Lower Downtown).
Omaha, Nebraska has NoDo (North Downtown).

Don't forget DoWiSeTrePla in New York!

[slcrocket]

So apparently this Christopher Hansen is going to be contributing $300 million of his own cash to the project. Not that of his group or investors, but HIS cash.

[TurnedTheCorner]

"seattle investor has plans to lose hundreds of millions of dollars before becoming insolvent"

Subject fixed. You're welcome.

[Azure]

I'd imagine that they will do the same thing Winnipeg did, and get STH to commit to 5 years, and suite holders to commit even longer.

That should give them the time to build the fan base accordingly.

[afc wimbledon]

Quebec is quite a bit further ahead than Seattle at this stage. Quebec has an owner, a building (coming...) and a market - Bettman's three main criteria. Seattle has no owner, no building (yet) and a market.

If Coyotes need to be moved quickly, it's Quebec. If they hang on for a couple of more years it may become a toss-up.

My personal opinion is Southern Ontario and Seattle will be expansion franchises in five years or so.

I don't think expansion works in Seattle, just to costly to make sense for anyone in a likely weak market, they will be looking to pick up a cheaper deal on a Jersey or Islanders or the like

[tjinaz]

Rumor is Jamison group is wrapping up sale of Coyotes and keeping in Glendale.

Believe it when I see them turn over the keys....

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/report-phoenix-coyotes-sale-nearly-complete-greg-jamison-143756163.html

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Rumor is Jamison group is wrapping up sale of Coyotes and keeping in Glendale.

Believe it when I see them turn over the keys....

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/report-phoenix-coyotes-sale-nearly-complete-greg-jamison-143756163.html

Exactly. You'd have to think that any sale involves some sort of subsidy from the city as Hulsizer's deal did. And any form of subsidy involves the sale of bonds. And... you're right, here we go again.

[troutman]

Rumor is Jamison group is wrapping up sale of Coyotes and keeping in Glendale.

Believe it when I see them turn over the keys....

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/report-phoenix-coyotes-sale-nearly-complete-greg-jamison-143756163.html

NHL again says Coyotes haven't been sold


http://www.king5.com/sports/canucks/NHL-again-says-Coyotes-havent-been-sold-139849553.html

"We are the owner of the team, and thus should know if and when we have a deal to sell the team," NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly told KING 5 Tuesday.

"I have unequivocally denied (several times) that we have a deal with Jamison, (much less that the Board has approved him)," said Daly. "I hope it gets done with Jamison, but there is a long way between here and there."

[Jordan!]

Yawn

[Vulcan]

There's an hour show on right now on NBC Seattle, channel 1210 on Bell TV called the Seattle Arena. They must be serious.

[Vulcan]

They are looking at Sacramanto, New Orleans, the Grizzlies, Indianapolis, and Milwaukee for NBA franchises. Sacramento has a March 1 deadline to get their plans together, if they want to keep their team. IIRC they want a NBA team before they build and look at a NHL team.

The mayor says there will be no direct money invested by the city and they will be careful not to get into a situation like Glendale [didn't mention Glendale per se]
They need two teams to make it viable.

[afc wimbledon]

They are looking at Sacramanto, New Orleans, the Grizzlies, Indianapolis, and Milwaukee for NBA franchises. Sacramento has a March 1 deadline to get their plans together, if they want to keep their team. IIRC they want a NBA team before they build and look at a NHL team.

I wouldn't be suprised to see the NBA back in Vancouver at some point, by all accounts Stern considers allowing the Grizzlies to move a blunder on his part.

[Vulcan]

In the NHL of course they are looking at Phoenix. Columbus, Florida, NYI or even Tampa but Florida has been making money, so they probably won't move. Goes on to mention the local hockey history and youth hockey in the area in an interview with Jamie Huscroft. City is growing and should be able to support the NHL but not as excited as for the NBA.

[Vulcan]

In reality the leagues don't want to move and Seattle is afraid that they will be used to blackmail other cities into giving sweetheart deals to keep their teams. The new NBA deal gives small markets a better chance of surviving so that makes it even less chance for teams to move. I'm thinking that if the US economy stabilizes the best chance for Seattle is to get expansion franchises.

Here's an interview with David Stern.

http://www.king5.com/video?sec=549122

[The Original FFIV]

The Tacoma Dome, while not an ideal venue, can reportedly seat around 15k-17k for hockey. It would work in the interim.

Can Seattle support five sports? I have the same question. Football is a lock as it is king...the Mariners are also a lock since there is enough history and baseball's profitability model doesn't force teams to sell out the majority of their games. The Sonics, given the right arena, would be fine as well as there is enough history and fan base to keep things going (even in the waning lame duck years, I recall that attendance was not a big issue).

So then you've got the Sounders and the NHL franchise. MLSer's are kind of a fringe group but, as previously mentioned, numerous enough to keep things going. Since the NHL season happens at roughly the same time as the NBA, I have some concerns that people will use their disposable income for something they knew and grew up with. However, the minor league hockey teams (Silvertips and Thunderbirds) still garner a lot of interest, and it's surprising how many Western Washington residents drive up to Vancouver because it's the closest venue. I think that the NHL would need a hell of a good marketing effort in its initial years in Seattle to survive, but I think it could.

The Credit Union Centre in Saskatoon seats over 15000 for hockey and has luxury boxes. While not as new as the Mts Centre it has similar number of seats and luxury boxes. If no buyer and league owns it at the end of the season move them there and see if the team can be profitable similar to a probationary period. If not oh well they can move to another location but can't see them losing as much money in Stone than in Phx.

[hwy19man]

Bellevue, on the other side of Lake Washington, wants the new arena there. http://www.king5.com/news/Arena-Talk-in-Bellevue-Too-140676183.html

[seattleflamer]

I think this was the original idea a few years ago but obviously Hansen's is actually the one that is much farther ahead backed up with $. Frankly if Hansen had it his way, we still wouldn't know anything about his plan.

He seems very methodical and deliberate.

Not so sure about Bellevue other than it would be relatively central.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

The Credit Union Centre in Saskatoon seats over 15000 for hockey and has luxury boxes. While not as new as the Mts Centre it has similar number of seats and luxury boxes. If no buyer and league owns it at the end of the season move them there and see if the team can be profitable similar to a probationary period.

You seriously think an NHL team can be profitable in a city of 260,000 people?

[Zulu29]

I really don't know how anyone can truly believe an NHL franchise could survive in Saskatchewan. The province's population is too spread out, medium and small cities all over the place plus Regina and Saskatoon. Manitoba's population is concentrated in Winnipeg with a few small cities. Saskatchewanites may be die-hard hockey fans, but their market just could not support an NHL team and likely never will.

[The Original FFIV]

I really don't know how anyone can truly believe an NHL franchise could survive in Saskatchewan. The province's population is too spread out, medium and small cities all over the place plus Regina and Saskatoon. Manitoba's population is concentrated in Winnipeg with a few small cities. Saskatchewanites may be die-hard hockey fans, but their market just could not support an NHL team and likely never will.

I love when people use the population argument against Saskatoon and Saskatchewan as a whole. By this logic, there is absolutely no way a nfl franchise should exist in Green Bay yet somehow it does. Green Bay has a population of 100k with a metro of 360k. Yet Phx has a metro pop of 7-8 million and they can't fill the arena. Yes, it is in Glendale but would it really be better in downtown Phx? And what would be the real attendance not factoring in the out of towers?

Saskatchewan is booming if you haven't noticed and while the population hovers around a million, a good proportion of them are hockey fans. Saskatoon/Regina are half the population and Regina is only 2-2 1/2 hrs from Saskatoon. Farmers set their own hours, especially in winter so getting home late isn't an issue. With all the mining/oil activity there should be enough corporate support to buy boxes.

While it may not be the sexiest market, believe it could succeed if given a chance and if enough US markets fail, the Board of Governors and NHLPA would prefer relocation to contraction.

[Joborule]

I love when people use the population argument against Saskatoon and Saskatchewan as a whole. By this logic, there is absolutely no way a nfl franchise should exist in Green Bay yet somehow it does. Green Bay has a population of 100k with a metro of 360k. Yet Phx has a metro pop of 7-8 million and they can't fill the arena. Yes, it is in Glendale but would it really be better in downtown Phx? And what would be the real attendance not factoring in the out of towers?

Saskatchewan is booming if you haven't noticed and while the population hovers around a million, a good proportion of them are hockey fans. Saskatoon/Regina are half the population and Regina is only 2-2 1/2 hrs from Saskatoon. Farmers set their own hours, especially in winter so getting home late isn't an issue. With all the mining/oil activity there should be enough corporate support to buy boxes.

While it may not be the sexiest market, believe it could succeed if given a chance and if enough US markets fail, the Board of Governors and NHLPA would prefer relocation to contraction.

BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG difference on bolded.

One league has games once a week. Look at how the Roughriders get draws. Fans only have to come once a week, and about 2-3 times a month.

Getting night after night solid turnouts would be difficult for a minimum of 41 games over a 182 day period (6 months), whereas 9/10 (not exactly sure) games minimum over 123 day period (4 months).

Calgary and Edmonton are small markets, just having a metro over 1 million. Winnipeg is less than that, making it an even smaller market. Regina and Saskatoon is even less than Winnipeg market; and Winnipeg is in tough to make dough already because of that and other factors. A team in Saskatchewan has no shot under current conditions.

[Vulcan]

I love when people use the population argument against Saskatoon and Saskatchewan as a whole. By this logic, there is absolutely no way a nfl franchise should exist in Green Bay yet somehow it does. Green Bay has a population of 100k with a metro of 360k. Yet Phx has a metro pop of 7-8 million and they can't fill the arena. Yes, it is in Glendale but would it really be better in downtown Phx? And what would be the real attendance not factoring in the out of towers?

Saskatchewan is booming if you haven't noticed and while the population hovers around a million, a good proportion of them are hockey fans. Saskatoon/Regina are half the population and Regina is only 2-2 1/2 hrs from Saskatoon. Farmers set their own hours, especially in winter so getting home late isn't an issue. With all the mining/oil activity there should be enough corporate support to buy boxes.

While it may not be the sexiest market, believe it could succeed if given a chance and if enough US markets fail, the Board of Governors and NHLPA would prefer relocation to contraction.

Come on Green Bay is only 100 miles from Milwaukee and they only need to travel 8 times a year as opposed to travelling 41 times a year to Saskatoon. The NFL is also fueled by their TV contracts, they could play to an empty stadium and still make money. Hey I like Saskatoon but it is just too small. It would make a great Flames AHL city though.

[The Original FFIV]

BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG difference on bolded.

One league has games once a week. Look at how the Roughriders get draws. Fans only have to come once a week, and about 2-3 times a month.

Getting night after night solid turnouts would be difficult for a minimum of 41 games over a 182 day period (6 months), whereas 9/10 (not exactly sure) games minimum over 123 day period (4 months).

Farmers have the dough and whether they make it for all the games or not is debatable but paid attendance would be much higher than Phx or NYI or other weak markets. Wouldn't have to bribe Saskachewanites with all you can eat buffets or dollar beers either so gate receipts would be better too.

[_Q_]

If we're putting a team in Saskatoon, we should put a team in Red Deer too.

Hell, Canmore would be a great NHL city too.

Get er done Bettman.

[The Original FFIV]

Come on Green Bay is only 100 miles from Milwaukee and they only need to travel 8 times a year as opposed to travelling 41 times a year to Saskatoon. The NFL is also fueled by their TV contracts, they could play to an empty stadium and still make money. Hey I like Saskatoon but it is just too small. It would make a great Flames AHL city though.

Fair point on the nfl tv contract - more revenue sharing helps the Packers. But how far is Milwaukee from Chicago? Close enough that the Wirtz's got their shirt in a knot when Milwaukee was considered an expansion candidate. Could be that Milwaukee helps support the Bears as the well as the Packers.

No doubt Milwaukee helps Green Bay but so does the upper Peninsula of Michigan.

[saskflames69]

http://i43.tinypic.com/sowtbc.png

[seattleflamer]

Only thing missing is "divers and rioters" should stand out more!

[seattleflamer]

I love when people use the population argument against Saskatoon and Saskatchewan as a whole. By this logic, there is absolutely no way a nfl franchise should exist in Green Bay yet somehow it does. Green Bay has a population of 100k with a metro of 360k. Yet Phx has a metro pop of 7-8 million and they can't fill the arena. Yes, it is in Glendale but would it really be better in downtown Phx? And what would be the real attendance not factoring in the out of towers?

Saskatchewan is booming if you haven't noticed and while the population hovers around a million, a good proportion of them are hockey fans. Saskatoon/Regina are half the population and Regina is only 2-2 1/2 hrs from Saskatoon. Farmers set their own hours, especially in winter so getting home late isn't an issue. With all the mining/oil activity there should be enough corporate support to buy boxes.

While it may not be the sexiest market, believe it could succeed if given a chance and if enough US markets fail, the Board of Governors and NHLPA would prefer relocation to contraction.

Bill Hunter, is that you?

[saskflames69]

Only thing missing is "divers and rioters" should stand out more!
Glad somebody caught that

[tomo]

My understanding is that the problem with Bellevue is the lack of mass transit. I heard a few months back that people were afraid to try and build on the Eastside until there was a full commitment to light rail.

[afc wimbledon]

My understanding is that the problem with Bellevue is the lack of mass transit. I heard a few months back that people were afraid to try and build on the Eastside until there was a full commitment to light rail.

The problem with Bellevue is it is on the wrong side of the lake and so can only be reached by a couple of bridges, Seattle traffic is a gong show at the best of times Bellevue would be to Seattle what Glendale is to Phoenix

[Puppet Guy]

Bill Hunter, is that you?


on that note...

(the sound is awful)
w4FCaS0KA1o

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Saskatchewan is booming if you haven't noticed and while the population hovers around a million, a good proportion of them are hockey fans. Saskatoon/Regina are half the population and Regina is only 2-2 1/2 hrs from Saskatoon. Farmers set their own hours, especially in winter so getting home late isn't an issue. With all the mining/oil activity there should be enough corporate support to buy boxes..

I'm sorry, did you just claim that people will be willing to drive 4 to 5 hours, 41 times per year, mostly at night, IN THE SASKATCHEWAN WINTER, to go to hockey games?

[valo403]

Fair point on the nfl tv contract - more revenue sharing helps the Packers. But how far is Milwaukee from Chicago? Close enough that the Wirtz's got their shirt in a knot when Milwaukee was considered an expansion candidate. Could be that Milwaukee helps support the Bears as the well as the Packers.

No doubt Milwaukee helps Green Bay but so does the upper Peninsula of Michigan.

People in Milwaukee do not support the Bears, insinuating that will get you in a fight. And the UP, really? It's a sparsely populated area that would have very little impact on attendance in Green Bay.

It's funny how people always want to point at Green Bay as if it's a comparable example. There are virtually no parallels beyond the population of the immediate area. The economics of the league, the structure of the schedule, the surrounding area etc. etc. etc. are all completely different. But yes, let's point at Green bay and pretend we have made an argument.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

I don't understand how anyone can argue that Saskatoon deserves an NHL team when only two years ago they had the World Juniors and the only games they sold out were the Gold Medal Game and Canada/USA on New Year's Eve.

If you can't sell out WJC semis, how can you possibly sell out Saskatoon vs. Nashville on a Monday night?

[tomo]

The problem with Bellevue is it is on the wrong side of the lake and so can only be reached by a couple of bridges, Seattle traffic is a gong show at the best of times Bellevue would be to Seattle what Glendale is to Phoenix


No, it's nothing like Glendale / Phoenix. I live further East than Bellevue (in Redmond) and I can get into Seattle in 15/20 minutes.

You can get to the location they are talking about this week from Seattle by two bridges (520 & 90), or you can also get to it by the 405 freeway from the North (Everett) and from the South (Renton)

[afc wimbledon]

No, it's nothing like Glendale / Phoenix. I live further East than Bellevue (in Redmond) and I can get into Seattle in 15/20 minutes.

You can get to the location they are talking about this week from Seattle by two bridges (520 & 90), or you can also get to it by the 405 freeway from the North (Everett) and from the South (Renton)

You know as well as I Seattle traffic is a constant gong show and while you can get over the lake in 15 to 20 minutes it can also take an hour if some schmoe rear ends someone, if you want people in the business community to attend a game you keep the arena downtown and they go for dinner after work then walk to the game followed by a cocktail or beer after in the downtown, shove it in Bellevue and it is no nearer to anyone and it sits in an entertainment wasteland (Glendale), the best thing about Seattle is the centralised nature of its entertainment district, it may take hours to plow down the through the I.5 but at least once you get there you can dump the car and reach everything pretty well on foot.

[tomo]

But with 60% of season ticket holders for the Sonics living on the Eastside, Bellveue has a pretty strong argument about having the arena based off the 405


http://mynorthwest.com/422/624296/Source-New-Seattle-arena-is-less-likely-than-suggested

[seattleflamer]

You know as well as I Seattle traffic is a constant gong show and while you can get over the lake in 15 to 20 minutes it can also take an hour if some schmoe rear ends someone, if you want people in the business community to attend a game you keep the arena downtown and they go for dinner after work then walk to the game followed by a cocktail or beer after in the downtown, shove it in Bellevue and it is no nearer to anyone and it sits in an entertainment wasteland (Glendale), the best thing about Seattle is the centralised nature of its entertainment district, it may take hours to plow down the through the I.5 but at least once you get there you can dump the car and reach everything pretty well on foot.

I can't find the article but I believe >60% of Sonic season ticket holders were from the Eastside. Bellevue is as central as SODO for car traffic purposes.

The argument for SODO is you have a nice public transit hub with light rail, ferries and the commuter trains in vicinity.

The S curves and I-90 are just ridiculous now with the new toll on 520. I went night skiing at Snoqualmie last week and I couldn't believe how many people were avoiding 520 and willing to wait to cross at 90.

[valo403]

But with 60% of season ticket holders for the Sonics living on the Eastside, Bellveue has a pretty strong argument about having the arena based off the 405


http://mynorthwest.com/422/624296/Source-New-Seattle-arena-is-less-likely-than-suggested

Similar situation to Detroit with the Palace being built out in Auburn Hills. The big difference is that Seattle actually has a large downtown area, whereas Detroit is fairly spread out with a number of business districts.

So I guess the question is, would those people who live in Bellevue prefer to go to games from their offices and then head home, or have a short trip after the game? Weekend games are obviously a different story, but those games also typically don't have the same issues with traffic etc. Personally I much prefer the central arena as it's much easier to make going to a game an event with dinner and drinks etc.

[saskflames69]

I don't understand how anyone can argue that Saskatoon deserves an NHL team when only two years ago they had the World Juniors and the only games they sold out were the Gold Medal Game and Canada/USA on New Year's Eve.

If you can't sell out WJC semis, how can you possibly sell out Saskatoon vs. Nashville on a Monday night?Nobody wanted to see Switzerland get mauled by Canada, even after their awesome win over Russia the night before. God, that was sweet. #### you John Carlson, you ruined the tournament.

[tomo]

Nobody wanted to see Switzerland get mauled by Canada, even after their awesome win over Russia the night before. God, that was sweet. #### you John Carlson, you ruined the tournament.

Isn't that the proof right there that the population isn't large enough to support it? The advantage of MOST larger markets is that there is a much larger casual fanbase to fill seats with.

[sevenarms]

Nobody wanted to see Switzerland get mauled by Canada, even after their awesome win over Russia the night before. God, that was sweet. #### you John Carlson, you ruined the tournament.

So who's going to want to see Columbus play??

[saskflames69]

Isn't that the proof right there that the population isn't large enough to support it? The advantage of MOST larger markets is that there is a much larger casual fanbase to fill seats with.
Buffalo didn't sell out every game either.. In fact, they only sold out 3 times during the entire tournament.

[devo22]

I'll just throw it in here because people have talked about Saskatoon here as well - here's a piece by McKenzie about Saskatoon's interest for a franchise:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=389234

[saskflames69]

AGAIN, this thread is about Seattle. Can we move this discussion to a "Potential Saskatoon NHL team" thread?

[valo403]

Buffalo didn't sell out every game either.. In fact, they only sold out 3 times during the entire tournament.

Buffalo had 3,000 more seats to fill. They had a number of games with an attendance short of a sell out but well over the capacity of Saskatoon.

[Nufy]

Seattle Twilights...

Isn't that town (Forks) supposed to be in Washington State ??

[Coach]

^^ Closet Twilight fan?

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Nobody wanted to see Switzerland get mauled by Canada, even after their awesome win over Russia the night before. God, that was sweet. #### you John Carlson, you ruined the tournament.

That game should have been sold out months before anyone even had a clue Switzerland was playing Canada in that game.

See: Edmonton, Calgary 2012

[Vulcan]

It looks like the Sacramento Kings arena deal has fallen through.

Friday's development suddenly improves the chances of Chris Hansen — the San Francisco hedge-fund manager who wants to build an arena for NBA and NHL teams in Seattle — acquiring the Kings."However, these developments are a reminder that franchise opportunities may arise quickly and in an unpredictable fashion," he said in a statement. "And so we should continue with our joint efforts to find an 'Arena Solution' that best works for our City, County and the various constituents of our community and in as timely a fashion as is feasible to ensure we are in a position to take advantage of an inevitable opportunity when it arises."This a key and it doesn't look like Seattle is ready if the Coyotes become suddenly available. It could become interesting if the NHL finally decides they are open to moving that franchise and want to move it now.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nba/2017976982_sacramento14.html

[C_of_Red28]

If Seattle gets a team.. Please name them the Seattle Whalers! Be great to have the Whalers back and would be a good rival for vancouver. Orca vs whalers

[FlamesAddiction]

Probably doesn't deserve its own thread, so I thought I would put it here... but the City of Markham is still slowly pushing ahead plans to build and NHL quality arena.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120416/markham-nhl-arena-120416/20120416/?hub=TorontoNewHome

[Tyler]

If Seattle gets a team.. Please name them the Seattle Whalers! Be great to have the Whalers back and would be a good rival for vancouver. Orca vs whalers

Yeah that would go over really well. Great idea.

[Street Pharmacist]

You know as well as I Seattle traffic is a constant gong show and while you can get over the lake in 15 to 20 minutes it can also take an hour if some schmoe rear ends someone, if you want people in the business community to attend a game you keep the arena downtown and they go for dinner after work then walk to the game followed by a cocktail or beer after in the downtown, shove it in Bellevue and it is no nearer to anyone and it sits in an entertainment wasteland (Glendale), the best thing about Seattle is the centralised nature of its entertainment district, it may take hours to plow down the through the I.5 but at least once you get there you can dump the car and reach everything pretty well on foot.

Longest, sentence, in, history.

[afc wimbledon]

Longest, sentence, in, history.

slowwwwwwest witty riposte in history.

[seattleflamer]

From the Seattle Times: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/technologybrierdudleysblog/2018172296_facebook_ipo_to_fund_seattle_s.html

Hansen who is interested in building a new arena and bring back the NBA is going to have a tidy profit from the upcoming Facebook IPO:

Seattle basketball fans may have a reason to cheer for Facebook's upcoming public stock (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2018132047_apustecfacebookipo.html) offering.
One of the early investors who stands to make a quick fortune on the deal is Chris Hansen (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017693509_arena08m.html), the San Francisco hedge fund manager trying to develop a new arena in Seattle and bring an NBA team back to town.
Hansen bought private Facebook stock in 2010 that's worth up to $1.27 billion at the high end of Facebook's IPO plan, according to a Forbes story (http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2012/05/09/facebooks-hedge-fund-friend/). It estimates that Hansen paid up to $500 million for the shares.

[seattleflamer]

Bump...

From today's Seattle Times: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2018214810_arena16m.html

Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn, County Executive Dow Constantine and hedge-fund manager Chris Hansen are expected to announce Wednesday morning they are sending legislation to the city and county councils to finance a new, $490 million sports arena in Sodo.

The process keeps chugging along and the stars are aligning with the Sacramento Kings deal falling through in April.

Headwinds include a skeptical county and city council as well as the Mariners and the Port of Seattle having some serious reservations with increased traffic congestion.

[Coach]

At this point it doesn't look the Coyotes are moving, at least for a few years. What other city would people most like to see moved to Seattle? My vote would go to Florida, but I imagine people have other ideas.

[sevenarms]

At this point it doesn't look the Coyotes are moving, at least for a few years. What other city would people most like to see moved to Seattle? My vote would go to Florida, but I imagine people have other ideas.

Expansion is also a big possibility.

[mrdonkey]

Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn, County Executive Dow Constantine and hedge-fund manager Chris Hansen are expected to announce Wednesday morning they are sending legislation to the city and county councils to finance a new, $490 million sports arena in Sodo.http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/0/03/Hansen_chris_2005.jpg

...?

[dash_pinched]

https://p.twimg.com/As-mFuGCIAAxc21.jpg

[JerryUnderscore]

Expansion is also a big possibility.

A 2015 Seattle & Quebec expansion would be great.

[seattleflamer]

At this point it doesn't look the Coyotes are moving, at least for a few years. What other city would people most like to see moved to Seattle? My vote would go to Florida, but I imagine people have other ideas.

I think it is expansion or bust if PHX or Atlanta are any indication.

The NHL's MO obviously is to exhaust every local option before considering a relocation even if it doesn't make any financial sense in the short term ie. PHX.

[Rutuu]

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2012/05/22/edmonton-and-seattle-both-to-get-new-downtown-arenas-but-seattle-is-getting-a-much-much-better-deal/


In short, there are two key differences between the Seattle deal and the Edmonton deal. The first, the big, eye-catching one, is a huge difference between the money paid by the public sector and the private sector, illustrated by the charts above (this includes the $25 million spent on arena land in the case of Edmonton, to match the money spent on arena land in Seattle).
The second huge difference are the conditions. Seattle gets a more beneficial arrangement for their old arena. All of Seattle’s money comes in the form of loans that are repaid directly from arena revenue. In Seattle’s case, the private money is borrowed privately, rather than from the city. Seattle has no hidden subsidy through a “marketing agreement.” All of Seattle’s public money has already been accounted for.
In Seattle, the public governments involved seem to have negotiated a heck of a deal. In Edmonton, the private investors involved seem to have negotiated a heck of a deal

[BloodFetish]

Seattle Starbuck's

That's sure to attract lawyers. How about the...

Seattle Starpucks?

[hwy19man]

Some news on the arena in Seattle.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012/06/14/sp-rally-held-in-seattle-for-new-nba-arena.html (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012/06/14/sp-rally-held-in-seattle-for-new-nba-arena.html)

[Alberta_Beef]

I am a fan of the NHL in Seattle, I hope they get the arena built.

[Coach]

Agreed. I think its an untapped market rhat would be great for hockey. Much better than PHX or FLA.

[dash_pinched]

Don Levin says he has $100 million to put into a NHL arena in Bellevue...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/hockey/2018783532_hockey27.html?tw_p=twt

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

I think a team in Bellevue would be a mistake. It's too out of the way in my opinion (someone from Seattle feel free to correct me).

Why don't the two arena projects join forces?

[Flash Walken]

Why don't the two arena projects join forces?

$

I think one guy, mr. 100 million is looking for concessions, either real-estate or financial, and jumping on this bandwagon is a good way to get it.

For instance, the Acquilinis just got a nice 30 million dollar subsidy from the City of Vancouver to build new condos. Being the owner of a city sports franchise is a good way to grease the wheels.

Why have one arena when you can have two for twice the price and not have to be the little sister to the main owner?

I don't think the league will go for it, but it's puts him on the radar and gets his name associated with this project.

I think Bellevue is bad, too. I know some people will argue that it's not too far of a drive from Seattle etc, but I think most of those people are the same people who say it only takes 15 minutes to get from Bum-Fark-Nowhere, Suburb of Calgary. Seattle traffic is awful, having an arena in the city, preferably near the water/industrial area, and approving rapid transit projects is the ideal way to go, in my opinion.

Some civic planner will probably chime in and make me eat my shorts, but, makes sense to me.

Bellevue might as well be Airdrie in my mind.

[Stealth22]

I think a team in Bellevue would be a mistake. It's too out of the way in my opinion (someone from Seattle feel free to correct me).

+1..I haven't been to Seattle, but I think it's a bit like the Glendale situation in Phoenix, although to a lesser extent.

[868904]

$

I think one guy, mr. 100 million is looking for concessions, either real-estate or financial, and jumping on this bandwagon is a good way to get it.

For instance, the Acquilinis just got a nice 30 million dollar subsidy from the City of Vancouver to build new condos. Being the owner of a city sports franchise is a good way to grease the wheels.

Why have one arena when you can have two for twice the price and not have to be the little sister to the main owner?

I don't think the league will go for it, but it's puts him on the radar and gets his name associated with this project.

I think Bellevue is bad, too. I know some people will argue that it's not too far of a drive from Seattle etc, but I think most of those people are the same people who say it only takes 15 minutes to get from Bum-Fark-Nowhere, Suburb of Calgary. Seattle traffic is awful, having an arena in the city, preferably near the water/industrial area, and approving rapid transit projects is the ideal way to go, in my opinion.

Some civic planner will probably chime in and make me eat my shorts, but, makes sense to me.

Bellevue might as well be Airdrie in my mind.

I think it's stupid to have an arena away from the core and transit. If you have a winning team, sure it might be ok, but if your team sucks, good luck filling those seats.

I think the Senators had that problem for years with poor attendance and a losing team situated out in Kanata. Only in recent years have they developed an actual devoted fan base that is willing to attend games to support a competitive team.

As for Phoenix, need we say more? Even with a winning team, they still can't draw.

[trumpethead]

Is Wayne Gretzky involved?? Sounds like he might be?? Either that or he is a big Mariners fan.

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2012/07/26/wayne-gretzky-complicates-nhl-in-seattle-situation/

[TheContact]

Bellevue is a slightly strange location, but the population here isn't completely concentrated in the city of Seattle. The eastside, with Bellevue and Redmond is home to Microsoft, Nintendo, and a host of other companies, so there's a lot of commuting that goes on between the two areas.

To put it in perspective, with no traffic it's a 10 minute drive (with traffic it can be upwards of 40 minutes, but even within the city you can spend that kind of time in traffic). It's not way out in the middle of nowhere or anything, just across Lake Washington. Heck, I just made this journey in the middle of rush hour and the drive was half-spent in Seattle and half-spent on the freeway to the eastside.

Population wise, King County (which includes Bellevue and Seattle) has a population of nearly 2 million people, while Seattle itself represents only ~600,000 of that. Large, but by no means a majority. So Bellevue isn't totally a crazy spot.

While it's semi-convenient to have all the stadiums in the same place, the traffic situation there is already a nightmare. Having to manage schedules between all the teams might get pretty nasty.

That said, I'm not sold that Seattle can support a team here longterm. I find it hard to imagine a strong hockey following (unlike with soccer, which had a large fan-base here well before the Sounders appeared).

[Saddledome]

Seattle Seahocks.

Like Micro Soft.

[FlyingDonutz]

Canada is where the money's at... honestly... Move a team to Saskatoon..

[FlamesFanStrandedInEDM]

The Thunderbirds must be thrilled.

[saskflames69]

Canada is where the money's at... honestly... Move a team to Saskatoon..

Yeah.. good luck with that.

[Resolute 14]

Canada is where the money's at... honestly... Move a team to Saskatoon..

You keep saying that as if it isn't a foolish suggestion.

At any rate, I would think that if you are going to build in a suburb, going south of Seattle would be preferable to east. The Seatac area would make it easier for people in Seattle, Bellevue and Tacoma to get to games.

Kent is a good location for the Thunderbirds for that same reason.

[sureLoss]

Bump:

Seattle city council has approved the arena to be built

http://www.kgw.com/news/business/Final-deal-reached-on-Seattle-hoops-hockey-arena-169304716.html

A deal has been reached between the Seattle City Council and the investor group led by Chris Hansen on the financial terms that would put a new sports arena near Safeco Field, multiple sources confirm.

An official announcement by city council members outlining the terms of the agreement is expected Tuesday. A key multi-million dollar concession by Hansen, which could see his investor group spend more out-of-pocket to build the arena, appears to have brought reluctant councilmembers onboard with the project.

Transportation lies at the heart of the revised agreement. In the Memorandum of Understanding entered into earlier this year (http://www.king5.com/news/arena/Arena-Construction-can-begin-when-NBA-team-secured-151743235.html) with Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn and King County Executive Dow Constantine, Hansen pledged $290 million of private money to build the NBA/NHL facility in SODO. That original plan envisioned the city and county issuing $200 million in bonds to finance the remaining costs of the project (a one-team scenario would have involved only a $120 million investment by the city and county). Hansen pledged that arena revenue would be sufficient to pay off the bond debt, thus resulting in no risk to taxpayers.

To get that deal through the city council, sources said Hansen agreed to establish a $40 million transportation fund, which would come out of the publicly financed pool of money. He has also agreed to spend $7 million on KeyArena, aided by revenue from an NBA or NHL team that would use the facility while the SODO arena is being built. The money, which would also support planning for KeyArena's future, would also come out of the publicly financed portion.

Sources said the Council will commit to financing up to $145 million in bonded debt rather than $120 million in a one-team scenario. Council leaders are said to believe that the transportation portion of the deal will help secure matching funds from the state, federal government or the Port of Seattle.

[Lil Pedro]

Interesting, I think an NHL team in Seattle would be awesome. Would likely mean the Thunderbirds would have to relocate somewhere else in the WHL

[dash_pinched]

I'm glad to hear that this has been approved and that it is planned to be built in the SoDo area (close to Safeco Field and CenturyLink). Now get those shovels in the ground ASAP.

[nik-]

Man, it must be painful for the Supersonics fans ... a few years too late and they get to watch their team in the finals.

[trumpethead]

This is great news. I wholeheartedly support any initiative that creates an opportunity for an entirely new fan base to despise the Vancouver Canucks.

[Joborule]

Guess us three teams in Western Canada are gonna have a new rival soon.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Interesting, I think an NHL team in Seattle would be awesome. Would likely mean the Thunderbirds would have to relocate somewhere else in the WHL

There's also a team in Everett and the T-Birds actually play in Kent. I think the teams can co-exist.

[Coach]

Move Phoenix to Seattle. Right now. Before a deal gets approved for 10 years or something.

[saskflames69]

Maybe Frasier can do the play-by-play!

[Vulcan]

Move Phoenix to Seattle. Right now. Before a deal gets approved for 10 years or something.

Just listening to Prime Time Sports and this Seattle reporter says there is no way the Key Centre could be used for NHL hockey and the new arena won't be ready for 3 or 4 years. The NBA can be moved in but no NHL, so the NHL will be more of an afterthought. The guy was very very enthusiastic about getting the NHL though and said they'd be a natural rival for Vancouver.

[saskflames69]

Give them an expansion franchise and contract the Coyotes.

[Vulcan]

Give them an expansion franchise and contract the Coyotes.

Why contract them when they can go to Quebec City.

[Muta]

There's also a team in Everett and the T-Birds actually play in Kent. I think the teams can co-exist.

The ShoWare Center is a beauty.

http://cdx.dexigner.com/article/18701/ShoWare_Center_01_thumb.jpg

http://cdx.dexigner.com/article/18701/ShoWare_Center_02_thumb.jpg

[The Fonz]

The ShoWare Center is a beauty.

http://cdx.dexigner.com/article/18701/ShoWare_Center_01_thumb.jpg




Does that not look like a convenience store to anyone else?

[saskflames69]

Does that not look like a convenience store to anyone else?I was thinking more of a Save-on-Foods.

[Muta]

Hahaha... how about this one.

http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq342/MJChomik/Kent2.jpg

[MrMastodonFarm]

Pretty sure that's the Superstore wedged between 4th and Centre st NW.

Looks beautiful at night!

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

This situation screams expansion franchise. I'd be shocked if the NHL didn't announce relatively soon (as in, maybe a few months after the regular season starts or the end of this upcoming season at the absolute latest) that the League is expanding to Seattle and Markham. Probably 2015-16 or 2016-17.

[Vulcan]

This situation screams expansion franchise. I'd be shocked if the NHL didn't announce relatively soon (as in, maybe a few months after the regular season starts or the end of this upcoming season at the absolute latest) that the League is expanding to Seattle and Markham. Probably 2015-16 or 2016-17.

They need an NHL owner in Seattle. The arena financier is only in for the NBA team. Maybe the Chicago wolves owner would be interested as he was wanting to build an arena as well.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

They need an NHL owner in Seattle. The arena financier is only in for the NBA team. Maybe the Chicago wolves owner would be interested as he was wanting to build an arena as well.

I'm fairly certain the ownership group will include Don Levin. He wants to own a team in Seattle and even though it looks like his Bellevue arena project won't go through, this one should work nicely.

[seattleflamer]

Levin really wants that Bellevue deal since he'd have control of the building and the additional revenue sources. Also rumors that Gretzky is part of Levin's investor group and when Gretzky was in town, he met with Bellevue city officials according to reports in late July (http://www.bellevuereporter.com/news/163792826.html).

Wayne Gretzky, who was seen at a Seattle Mariners game Wednesday, took a meeting with Bellevue officials to discuss the possibility of a NHL arena in the city, according to KJR radio's Dave "Softy" Mahler.

Bellevue spokesman Claude Iosso said he was unaware of the meeting.

A source close to the situation said talks between Bellevue and suitors for an NHL arena have been ongoing, but the source did not want to go into any particular individuals.

"There are people working on it," the source said.

As for the SODO arena deal, this was a big win for Seattle taxpayers even though general Seattle property taxes will go up nominally ie.$60/year on a $350K house .

Although nothing is 100% fool proof and does potentially weaken the ability of the city to finance other potential projects, this deal isn't the usual corporate welfare scheme that usually comes with professional sports teams.

[krazycanuck]

I'm fairly certain the ownership group will include Don Levin. He wants to own a team in Seattle and even though it looks like his Bellevue arena project won't go through, this one should work nicely.

I wonder if Paul Allen would have an interest in owning an NHL team in Seattle. I know he was rumoured to have tried to put a team in Portland before (where he owns the Trail Blazers and the arena). He would be a dream owner for the NHL if they were looking at expansion.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

I wonder if Paul Allen would have an interest in owning an NHL team in Seattle. I know he was rumoured to have tried to put a team in Portland before (where he owns the Trail Blazers and the arena). He would be a dream owner for the NHL if they were looking at expansion.

I'm not sure how interested he is in the NHL these days. The names you're going to hear start swirling are Levin and Ballmer.

[MissTeeks]

Seattle City Counsel approved the arena legislation today:

https://twitter.com/ChrisDaniels5


BREAKING - Seattle City Council APPROVES #SeattleArena (https://twitter.com/search/?q=%23SeattleArena&src=hash) legislation 6-2.



Chris Hansen releases statement thanking council for vote, and willingness to "roll up their sleeves" #SeattIeArena (https://twitter.com/search/?q=%23SeattIeArena&src=hash)

[tomo]

I wonder how serious Kratz and Lowe are or did they just want to position themselves against edm city council while going to the seahawks game?



OILERS BRASS VISITS SEATTLE ARENA AMID TALKS WITH EDMONTON

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=406031

[sevenarms]

I wonder how serious Kratz and Lowe are or did they just want to position themselves against edm city council while going to the seahawks game?



OILERS BRASS VISITS SEATTLE ARENA AMID TALKS WITH EDMONTON

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=406031

I'm sure the name "Oilers" will go over well with the tree-hugging Seattle folk.

[Erick Estrada]

The ShoWare Center is a beauty.

http://cdx.dexigner.com/article/18701/ShoWare_Center_01_thumb.jpg

http://cdx.dexigner.com/article/18701/ShoWare_Center_02_thumb.jpg

I realize it looks like a convenience store from the outside but from the inside I like all the surrounding glass as it makes the concourse bright and airy. The dark, drab concrete concourse of the Saddledome makes you feel like you are in an industrial facility by comparison.

[hwy19man]

I wonder if Paul Allen would have an interest in owning an NHL team in Seattle. I know he was rumoured to have tried to put a team in Portland before (where he owns the Trail Blazers and the arena). He would be a dream owner for the NHL if they were looking at expansion.

I'm not sure how interested he is in the NHL these days. The names you're going to hear start swirling are Levin and Ballmer. Portland would be terrific but, Mr. Allen does not want competition to his beloved Trailblazers of the NBA. Having both cities would be excellent. I wonder how long until Katz makes a trip to Portland, Oregon.

[coop3422]

I realize it looks like a convenience store from the outside but from the inside I like all the surrounding glass as it makes the concourse bright and airy. The dark, drab concrete concourse of the Saddledome makes you feel like you are in an industrial facility by comparison.
I wonder what it would cost to heat in the winter though if it were in Calgary? lol.

I can't believe people are talking about expansion, when it's clear that teams are currently bleeding and need to be moved

[Joborule]

I wonder what it would cost to heat in the winter though if it were in Calgary? lol.

I can't believe people are talking about expansion, when it's clear that teams are currently bleeding and need to be moved

People think about expansion because the NHL IS planning to expand. In their new divisional realignment they proposed, the divisions were unbalanced since Western divisions had 8 teams while Eastern only had 7. It's obvious that the NHL intends to have 2 more teams added to the league in the near future so the divisions are all balanced.

NHL believes in the market teams are in right now, that they can still work with the right owners in place. And if a team or two has to move, there's numerous potential locations to go too, while still have more cities available for teams.

Off the top of my head, cities that could support an NHL team if a owner wanted to move there (and an arena can be built or already has been):

Quebec City
Markham (Toronto 2)
Hamilton
Seattle
Kansas City
Hartford
Houston
Las Vegas (Don't really see that happening at all personally)

[Alberta_Beef]

I'd love to see a Seattle team roll out some uniforms that had similar colours to the old North Stars uniforms from the early 90s

[valo403]

I'd love to see a Seattle team roll out some uniforms that had similar colours to the old North Stars uniforms from the early 90s

You mean like these?

large image

http://kembrel.s3.amazonaws.com/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/e/deadstock_bballjerseyfront_0002_layer_4.jpg

[Alberta_Beef]

You mean like these?

large image

http://kembrel.s3.amazonaws.com/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/e/deadstock_bballjerseyfront_0002_layer_4.jpgYes, I was thinking of the Sonics too. I just liked the idea of referencing a hockey team

[saskflames69]

I'd love to see a Seattle team roll out some uniforms that had similar colours to the old North Stars uniforms from the early 90s
Like these ones?

http://www.corruptinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/minniesota-modano.jpg

Personally, I'd like to see a green-white-black color scheme similar to what the U of North Dakota has.

http://www.thewchashop.com/v/vspfiles/photos/NCAA-K1TCJERSEY-NODAK-2T.jpghttp://www.thewchashop.com/v/vspfiles/photos/NCAA-K1WJERSEY-NODAK-2T.jpg

[Alberta_Beef]

Like these ones?

http://www.corruptinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/minniesota-modano.jpg

Personally, I'd like to see a green-white-black color scheme similar to what the U of North Dakota has.

http://www.thewchashop.com/v/vspfiles/photos/NCAA-K1TCJERSEY-NODAK-2T.jpghttp://www.thewchashop.com/v/vspfiles/photos/NCAA-K1WJERSEY-NODAK-2T.jpgI like the Fighting Sioux uniforms too, but I really like the yellow mixed in as a complimentary colour. Plus with the history of the Sonics and the likelihood a new NBA team would have the same colour scheme I think it would be good to have the NHL club using the same colours so that they can use those colours around the arena.

[Joborule]

http://www.king5.com/news/arena/City-releases-sketches-of-preferred-option-of-Seattle-arena--181616451.html

Three arena design concepts.

[cowtown75]

I think they should save their money if they expect an NHL team to prosper there. They should conference with their other US owner buddies first.

[Zulu29]

I think NHL hockey would do great in Seattle. Lots of people I've spoken to buddies here (lower mainland) that have said they'd go to a bunch of games and a couple even want to buy season tickets. I go down to Seattle for a few nfl games a year and would definitely go down for a few NHL games. I'm sure the tickets would be cheaper than Vancouver and another perk is I wouldn't be surrounded by Canuck fans!

[Magnum PEI]

I'd love to see a Seattle team roll out some uniforms that had similar colours to the old North Stars uniforms from the early 90s

I think the electric green the Seahawks and Sounders use would be cool. I don't think there has been a fluorescent jersey in the NHL.

[Buzzard]

I think NHL hockey would do great in Seattle. Lots of people I've spoken to buddies here (lower mainland) that have said they'd go to a bunch of games and a couple even want to buy season tickets. I go down to Seattle for a few nfl games a year and would definitely go down for a few NHL games. I'm sure the tickets would be cheaper than Vancouver and another perk is I wouldn't be surrounded by Canuck fans!

They'd wait at massive border lineups, drive 4 hours (return) into some of the worst traffic nightmares in the US, two or three times a week for expansion team hockey?

I could see doing it a few times a season maybe, but season tickets?

All the power to 'em I guess. Bigger fans than I.

[Zulu29]

They'd wait at massive border lineups, drive 4 hours (return) into some of the worst traffic nightmares in the US, two or three times a week for expansion team hockey?

I could see doing it a few times a season maybe, but season tickets?

All the power to 'em I guess. Bigger fans than I.

Well they have nexus passes which gets you through the border quick and would either go in with other people on season tickets or sell the tickets to games they don't go to.

[Envitro]

Yeah, plus it's not 4 hours, more like 2.5. I just did that drive round-trip over the weekend, and with a 45 minute wait time at the border each way (no nexus card yet) it was still only 3 hours each way