Feaster: "I really feel Jarome will finish his career here in Calgary"

[Captain_Obvious]

Just thought I'd share a couple of quotes from Feaster who was interviewed on the Columbus brodcast of tonight's game between the 1st and 2nd periods.

On Iginla:

"It's a non issue for us and because there never was a story to begin with, our rebuttal has become the story. We have never approached Jarome about being traded and he's never came to us about it. He has told us many times he wants to be part of the solution here and wants to win here. I really feel he will finish his career here in Calgary."

On trades brewing:

"It's very difficult to make trades in today's NHL because it's all about dollars in matching dollars out. When you have a player you're interested in or a player we have that generates interest, you start having to look at supplementary moves to match the dollars going in and out. That or you start having to look at adding other pieces etc..."

[Two Fivenagame]

Should be an interesting trade deadline for the Flames this year.

[Notorious Honey Badger]

http://nationalpostsports.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/sutter2.jpg?w=620

"Dion isn't being traded"

[edn88]

I hope he finishes his career in Calgary.

[moon]

My heart loves the strong stance on having Jarome finishing his career as a life long Flame, but my head is terrified at the thought that they think there is some sort of solution involving keeping Iginla on this team.

[FlamesAddiction]

"It's very difficult to make trades in today's NHL because it's all about dollars in matching dollars out. When you have a player you're interested in or a player we have that generates interest, you start having to look at supplementary moves to match the dollars going in and out. That or you start having to look at adding other pieces etc..."

Hence why it is foolish to go into the season spending right to the cap. Ideally, you should have a few million in space to allow for mid-season transactions if necessary.

[Joborule]

http://nationalpostsports.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/sutter2.jpg?w=620

"Dion isn't being traded"

Pretty much. I can't take what he says seriously and this is just PR work for the meantime. Also gives notice to other GMs that you have to offer something good to get Iggy.

Otherwise if they're not considering shipping Iggy even with a solid deal that helps them long term, I don't know what to say about this organization then. No matter the player, they are NEVER above the team.

[Baaarrden]

I hope he can win a cup before the end of his career. Whether it's in Calgary or not, he deserves it. I just hope that it is in Calgary.

[Captain_Obvious]

My heart loves the strong stance on having Jarome finishing his career as a life long Flame, but my head is terrified at the thought that they think there is some sort of solution involving keeping Iginla on this team.

There is nothing wrong with keeping a veteran presence through a rebuild and suggesting this team can't build a winning team while keeping Iginla over the next five years is just ignorant.

[simmonjam1]

So Iginla will be traded to a contender; win a cup then resign with Calgary in 2013/2014 to finish his career.

[murray1]

And that right there is the reason this team will be crap for years instead of undergoing a quick rebuild... Management refusing to acknowledge and deal with the real problems facing this team is what put this team in its current position and will only hurt it more in the future...

[DropIt]

I also think he finishes his career in Calgary, in between now and 6 years from now?

mystery

[Northendzone]

While jay did not seem to say what they think, iggy wants to be part of the solution.....iggy may retire a flame because he refuses to be traded......although I suppose that he'll likely need one more contract to retire

[moon]

There is nothing wrong with keeping a veteran presence through a rebuild and suggesting this team can't build a winning team while keeping Iginla over the next five years is just ignorant.

Iginla is going to by far getting us the most pieces to a. actually have a good chance of having a successful rebuild and b. doing it in a somewhat timely matter.

Also, keeping vets is a good and necessary thing. Keeping a guy like Iginla who helps ensure the team is just good enough to not finish bottom 5 but not good enough to make the play-offs is not a good or necessary thing.

Thinking that the team is better off keeping their top and old asset while trying to rebuild the team and missing the play-offs is a good thing is just ignorant.

[Captain_Obvious]

Iginla is going to by far getting us the most pieces to a. actually have a good chance of having a successful rebuild and b. doing it in a somewhat timely matter.

Also, keeping vets is a good and necessary thing. Keeping a guy like Iginla who helps ensure the team is just good enough to not finish bottom 5 but not good enough to make the play-offs is not a good or necessary thing.

Thinking that the team is better off keeping their top and old asset while trying to rebuild the team and missing the play-offs is a good thing is just ignorant.


The rebuild is already under way with an injection of youth this year and will continue while keeping Iginla.

You're negative about everything all of the time Moon.

It's very possible Iginla helps this team through a rebuild and plays a vital contribution in that process.

Since that is the likely option he and both the team have continuously put forward, I suggest you get used to it and find something else to fixate on.

[Captain_Obvious]

And that right there is the reason this team will be crap for years instead of undergoing a quick rebuild... Management refusing to acknowledge and deal with the real problems facing this team is what put this team in its current position and will only hurt it more in the future...

Did you watch the game tonight or did you just drop with more of the same drive by Iginla hating comments?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Iginla is going to by far getting us the most pieces to a. actually have a good chance of having a successful rebuild and b. doing it in a somewhat timely matter.

Also, keeping vets is a good and necessary thing. Keeping a guy like Iginla who helps ensure the team is just good enough to not finish bottom 5 but not good enough to make the play-offs is not a good or necessary thing.

Thinking that the team is better off keeping their top and old asset while trying to rebuild the team and missing the play-offs is a good thing is just ignorant.

Wow I agree with moon for once. Stop the presses!

[Vinny01]

And that right there is the reason this team will be crap for years instead of undergoing a quick rebuild... Management refusing to acknowledge and deal with the real problems facing this team is what put this team in its current position and will only hurt it more in the future...


What makes you think the rebuild will be quick if Jarome is traded?

I for one want Iginla to finish his career in Calgary but I would not be opposed to dealing him at the deadline or next season with him coming back as a UFA.

Looking at HF (i know terrible source) or reading bogus twitter rumors, all the trades that supposedly being offered for Iginla are absolute junk packages that are not worth dealing the captain.

[Vinny01]

Iginla is going to by far getting us the most pieces to a. actually have a good chance of having a successful rebuild and b. doing it in a somewhat timely matter.

Also, keeping vets is a good and necessary thing. Keeping a guy like Iginla who helps ensure the team is just good enough to not finish bottom 5 but not good enough to make the play-offs is not a good or necessary thing.

Thinking that the team is better off keeping their top and old asset while trying to rebuild the team and missing the play-offs is a good thing is just ignorant.


It would be interesting to see what teams would offer for Jarome. I have a feeling it won't be near as much as many of us think.

[moon]

The rebuild is already under way with an injection of youth this year and will continue while keeping Iginla.

The injection of youth is nice but there is no elite level talent and arguably no top 6 level talent that an Iginla trade can bring and that is desperately needed with this team.

You're negative about everything all of the time Moon.

You can keep repeating that BS all you want it won't make it any more true.

And I fail to see how this is being negative just because it disagrees with your view.

It's very possible Iginla helps this team through a rebuild and plays a vital contribution in that process.

Since that is the likely option he and both the team have continuously put forward, I suggest you get used to it and find something else to fixate on.

I would like to see how it is "very possible" that happens. Not trading our best asset with an already weak asset base does not seem like the most likely ways to have this rebuild be successful.

Also how do I fixate on dealing Iginla? I think this may at most have been the 3 post I have had on the topic and have been far from a proponent of doing so.

[moon]

Did you watch the game tonight or did you just drop with more of the same drive by Iginla hating comments?

You mean the game in which we just lost at home to the worst team in the league?

[Hockey_Ninja]

Jarome has earned his right to weather he wants to stay or not. It would be great if he stayed her but the chances of us winning the cup by the time he retires are fairly slim but it wouldn't kill me if he didn't win one. Although it would be nice if we could do a re-tool and go on an epic cup run in the next few years with Jarome on the roster.

[seattleflamer]

Didn't Feaster also say in the summer the Flames would make the playoffs....and believed it. I don't think you can categorically say he will finish his career as a Flame or never be traded. If the right situation comes along for both parties, of course he'll move.

I hope he stays a Flame but I also want his storybook career to have a SC ring which looks like it won't happen here.

[moon]

It would be interesting to see what teams would offer for Jarome. I have a feeling it won't be near as much as many of us think.

Looking at deals from the past it looks like Iginla will get a very good package coming back.

The key with him is going to be finding the right fit, but if Feaster can the return will be very good.

HF is a pile of garbage and message board proposed deals are equally useless so I wouldn't worry too much about proposals based on what HF posters are suggesting.

[moon]

What makes you think the rebuild will be quick if Jarome is traded?

Because you add the good young pieces that an Iginla trade gets you and your team gets worse improving the quality and likelihood of success of the player/s you draft.

[Captain_Obvious]

The injection of youth is nice but there is no elite level talent and arguably no top 6 level talent that an Iginla trade can bring and that is desperately needed with this team.



You can keep repeating that BS all you want it won't make it any more true.

And I fail to see how this is being negative just because it disagrees with your view.



I would like to see how it is "very possible" that happens. Not trading our best asset with an already weak asset base does not seem like the most likely ways to have this rebuild be successful.

Also how do I fixate on dealing Iginla? I think this may at most have been the 3 post I have had on the topic and have been far from a proponent of doing so.


It's still possible to draft high and well, sign free agents and move other players while keeping a valuable cog and leader to guide the team through a rebuild.

And you called Byron garbage. Its kind of tough having any subjective discussion with you when the storm cloud you live in skews your outlook that dramatically.

Again, the team and Iginla both seem set on seeing him here through all of this.

You can huff and puff all you want, it's just going to leave you negative and constantly complaining like you always do.

Once again, it's possible this team rebuilds and retools while keeping a veteran presence that will contribute along the way.

You mean the game in which we just lost at home to the worst team in the league?

Murray announced yesterday he doesn't watch the Flames play. He just comes in several times a week to spew hate about Iginla.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

What makes you think the rebuild will be quick if Jarome is traded?

Because I think he would net the team several premium young players. You're looking at a return more than Mike Richards got. So you could get one of the best young players outside the NHL, probably another good young player and a 1st rounder, maybe more.

I mean if Feaster traded him in the wrong deal it wouldn't help the rebuild. But if he got full value I don't see how it wouldn't speed up the rebuild quite a bit.

We could potentially get that #1 centre we haven't had since Nieuwendyk left and get him just as he's entering the beginning of his career.

[Samiz]

I don't want Iggy to get traded but I feel that after all these years, he's done enough for the Flames to deserve better than this. I'd love for him to be part of the solution but I'd also love for him to win a cup in his career. Unfortunately, I doubt both of those things can happen simultaneously.

[Mightyfire89]

I don't see how someone who is competent enough to be hired as a GM of an NHL team could possibly not see the writing on the wall. Feaster has to know that for this team to improve he has to trade Iginla eventually...Doesn't he?

He's got to be spewing a lot of malarkey on this Iginla issue, right?

Oh, I don't know...:bag:

[Vinny01]

Looking at deals from the past it looks like Iginla will get a very good package coming back.

The key with him is going to be finding the right fit, but if Feaster can the return will be very good.

HF is a pile of garbage and message board proposed deals are equally useless so I wouldn't worry too much about proposals based on what HF posters are suggesting.


Well if the return is pretty solid then sure you gotta look at moving him but here is the way i see it.

Feaster is not going to trade Iginla this season no matter what. I think Iggy would still be tough to move right now given he has a year left on his deal. While he says he is not trading him now that could feasibly change. Feaster said he wouldn't trade Regehr but he did. Things change and this situation could change over time.

If the Flames do finish with a top 5 pick they could potentially add 2 future first liners to the team next year with Sven and this pick.

[moon]

It's still possible to draft high and well, sign free agents and move other players while keeping a valuable cog and leader to guide the team through a rebuild.

Of course it is possible but it is not very likely that it is going to happen and especially not more likely to be as successful a rebuild if you added top end talent from a trade and from the better drafting position.

And you called Byron garbage. Its kind of tough having any subjective discussion with you when the storm cloud you live in skews your outlook that dramatically.

This is the same Byron that has played more games in the AHL this year than the NHL correct?

Again, the team and Iginla both seem set on seeing him here through all of this.

Great doesn't mean that I can't state my views on what I think should happen.

You can huff and puff all you want, it's just going to leave you negative and constantly complaining like you always do.

I would love to see the posts where I am huffing and puffing. And as always keep coming with the BS negativity crap. A different opinion from you is not negativity.

[Heavy Jack]

No offence to Jarome, I understand fully and completely what he means to this team and I want him to stay until he hits 500 goals in his career, but this is not what I wanted to hear. I am really hoping he is just pulling a Sutter right now.

[Vinny01]

Because I think he would net the team several premium young players. You're looking at a return more than Mike Richards got. So you could get one of the best young players outside the NHL, probably another good young player and a 1st rounder, maybe more.

I mean if Feaster traded him in the wrong deal it wouldn't help the rebuild. But if he got full value I don't see how it wouldn't speed up the rebuild quite a bit.

We could potentially get that #1 centre we haven't had since Nieuwendyk left and get him just as he's entering the beginning of his career.


Well I just don't know if I agree that the return is going to be that good. The way I see it is a top prospect, a first round pick and a salary dump.

[Bluzman]

Sundin saga 2.0

[Heavy Jack]

Sundin saga 2.0

Terrible news.

[Captain_Obvious]

Of course it is possible but it is not very likely that it is going to happen and especially not more likely to be as successful a rebuild if you added top end talent from a trade and from the better drafting position.



This is the same Byron that has played more games in the AHL this year than the NHL correct?



Great doesn't mean that I can't state my views on what I think should happen.



I would love to see the posts where I am huffing and puffing. And as always keep coming with the BS negativity crap. A different opinion from you is not negativity.

I have zero interest in tracing and re-posting your drivel to prove to you that you do little other than complain here about everything and everyone. I have very little respect for your opinion because of how skewed and dripping with pessimism it always is.

And FYI your labeling Byron as "GARBAGE" (think about that word) speaks for itself. It just goes to show how much point there is discussing anything with you objectively.


- - -

Iginla isn't going to be traded for elite talent. He would be traded for young emerging talent with potential. There is no sure thing.

With that said, there is just as much chance we can have the same level of success keeping him, drafting well and making other decisions to rebuild through the draft, free agency and other trades in the next few seasons.

You don't like that and don't agree.

I'm sure you'll have plenty of time to repeat that online here while it happens as it seems pretty clear Iginla wants to stay and the team wants to keep him.

[MikaelBacklund]

There's two things that are most important for me:
1. The Calgary Flames being a successful team and winning a Stanley Cup
2. Watching Jarome lift the Stanley Cup

If both could happen together, that would be the greatest day of my life. However, I just don't see it happening with this squad.

The next best option in my opinion is while the Flames are rebuilding into a solid team, I watch Jarome win half a dozen stanley cups with another team. The most important being the future of the team, trading Jarome would be the best for both.

Also, with Jarome in the lineup, there's no way this team finishes the season in the bottom 5 of the standings.

[Dion]

Feaster can say what he wants, but if the right deal is presented to him, Iginla will be traded. It's foolish for him to say Iginla will be a Flame for life.

[Ashasx]

Terrible news.

Terrible news? Come on.

It's always like this. It always has been. It's still far more likely that Iginla will remain a Flame his entire career than not.

Are we rushing to go and trade Iginla?

I have no problem with Iginla staying here his entire career. That should not be "terrible news".

What a joke. Iginla is nothing like Sundin. Until he ditches his team to play with the Canucks, that comparison is an insult.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Sundin saga 2.0

Yeah no kidding, would sure suck to be in the position Toronto is in right now...oh wait..

[Vinny01]

Sundin was 37 when his saga was at its worst so Iggy still has 3 years

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Well I just don't know if I agree that the return is going to be that good. The way I see it is a top prospect, a first round pick and a salary dump.

Iginla scored 40 last year and would be coveted by any Cup contender. Players with his history don't become available very often. There's gonna be some GM out there who thinks Iginla just needs a change of scenery, or to be the complimentary piece to a crazy centre (see Crosby, Giroux, etc.)

I think he'd return as much as anybody has at the deadline.

Just because he's playing poorly right now doesn't mean his value is crap. He played poorly at the beginning of last season and still got 40. He's a two time 50+ goal scorer and a 4 time 40+ scorer.

I think Feaster could command a huge return for Iginla if he was was shopped.

[Vinny01]

Yeah no kidding, would sure suck to be in the position Toronto is in right now...oh wait..


Toronto has missed the playoffs 6 straight seasons so ya that would suck

[mattyk19]

Glad to hear that statement. But the fact is, something drastic needs to be done. If Iggy's staying, great. But do SOMETHING so that he doesn't have to still be on the Flames when he's 45 and getting $1M per. Iggy should cut his contact if he wants to stay on the team to make room for the franchise to afford top line players.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Iginla isn't going to be traded for elite talent. He would be traded for young emerging talent with potential. There is no sure thing.


A lot of the best young prospects are pretty much sure things.

[Captain_Obvious]

A lot of the best young prospects are pretty much sure things.

And which "best" young prospects do you think he could return that are "sure things"?

[Vinny01]

Iginla scored 40 last year and would be coveted by any Cup contender. Players with his history don't become available very often. There's gonna be some GM out there who thinks Iginla just needs a change of scenery, or to be the complimentary piece to a crazy centre (see Crosby, Giroux, etc.)

I think he'd return as much as anybody has at the deadline.

Just because he's playing poorly right now doesn't mean his value is crap. He played poorly at the beginning of last season and still got 40. He's a two time 50+ goal scorer and a 4 time 40+ scorer.

I think Feaster could command a huge return for Iginla if he was was shopped.


Well then Feaster might want to shop him but maybe Iginla really doesn't want to go? Maybe he believes in his team mates or the organization? Maybe the figures he has 5-7 years left in the league and will survive the rebuild? We don't know if Feaster hasa asked Iginla what he wants and Jarome said he really wants to stay unless Feaster really wants to blow it up. I don't see how Jay is going to completely change his philosophy 2 months into the season. If the Flames are terrible all year and finish bottom 5 he will probably soften his stance? Saying he is not trading Jarome NOW and he thinks Iggy will END his career in Calgary doesn't mean Iginla will never be moved. Trade him at the draft and resign him as UFA

[Vinny01]

A lot of the best young prospects are pretty much sure things.


What contending team has a sure thing prospect right now? I am not huge on trading Iginla for Dougie Hamilton. We have to keep in mind that there are about 5-7 teams that realistically could make a play for Jarome that it would be worth his while leaving. 1 of which is Vancouver and you can basically scratch them off the list

[Phanuthier]

Iginla would command a king's ransom for sure. There's no way you deal Iginla just for the hell of it. It would have to take the right offer, from the right team that would take Iginla to a cup. I'd be embarrassed as a fan if the Flames tried to deal him to the NYI or Florida.

Saying that... look at this team right now. It's a pretty bad team, going in the wrong direction. There's a cancer of losing culture growing in this team and a feeling of apathy when they are on the ice. Its really sad, and symptomatic of the late 90's Flames. Unlike a few years ago, when the Flames are down, I don't see the leadership or the talent to rebound. I really hope Feaster knows what the hell he's doing, because the only thing sadder than Iginla beginning the first 7 years of his career missing the playoffs, is finishing the last 7 years of his career missing the playoffs... and we're 2.5/7 season there.

[mister__big]

Feaster is just spewing the usual rhetoric that every GM would say. No GM in their right mind would tell a reporter "Yeah I've been working the phones real hard in the last week trying to deal Jarome but it's hard cause he's been pretty bad this season."

It's just like when a GM publicly gives a vote of confidence to his coach before firing him a week later. Like politicians, you can never trust what a GM says in public.

[Captain_Obvious]

Saying that... look at this team right now. It's a pretty bad team, going in the wrong direction. .


This sentiment seems to be really prevalent on this board and I'm not sure why.

This is not a good team right now and not many expected to be.

There's been an injection of youth, we look like we're going to draft very high in a deep draft, and we have assets to sell off at the deadline.

In addition, we have a lot of salary coming off the books this year.

That sounds like the right direction to me in the big picture. In the small picture of this season, we're not heading in the "right" direction in terms of making the playoffs, but I'm at a loss why that notion hasn't been dispelled for some people around here.

It's like there's shock and outrage when we keep losing.

In the big picture, we have a lot of young bright spots, we have some assets that can be sold off at the deadline, we'll draft high, and we have a ton of salary to throw around in free agency this summer.

It just takes a bit of perspective.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

What contending team has a sure thing prospect right now? I am not huge on trading Iginla for Dougie Hamilton. We have to keep in mind that there are about 5-7 teams that realistically could make a play for Jarome that it would be worth his while leaving. 1 of which is Vancouver and you can basically scratch them off the list

Yeah that is the tough question. Couturier and Schenn in Philly come to mind. Maybe Connolly in Tampa if they were to turn it around. Buffalo has a few intriguing young players in Adam, Myers, etc. WSH has Kuznetsov and Colorado's 1st rounder but I'm wary of Russians. Would PIT part with Malkin if we threw something in? Or Staal+?

Last year at the deadline might have been better timing. And perhaps next year would be better timing if lets say WSH drafts a crazy guy with COL's 1st.

I think Iginla's value is very high but you are right in that the best prospects in the world tend to be on the non-playoff teams :)

[boogerz]

Iginla would command a king's ransom for sure. There's no way you deal Iginla just for the hell of it. It would have to take the right offer, from the right team that would take Iginla to a cup. I'd be embarrassed as a fan if the Flames tried to deal him to the NYI or Florida.

Saying that... look at this team right now. It's a pretty bad team, going in the wrong direction. There's a cancer of losing culture growing in this team and a feeling of apathy when they are on the ice. Its really sad, and symptomatic of the late 90's Flames. Unlike a few years ago, when the Flames are down, I don't see the leadership or the talent to rebound. I really hope Feaster knows what the hell he's doing, because the only thing sadder than Iginla beginning the first 7 years of his career missing the playoffs, is finishing the last 7 years of his career missing the playoffs... and we're 2.5/7 season there.

I don't think anyone is qualified to make statements like this unless they're part of the Flames organization and/or or in the dressing room, and know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe Iginla is the problem, maybe is isn't.

Although, with the except the nucks or the oil, it doesn't matter what team Iginla gets traded to. It's the Calgary Flames, not the Calgary Iginlas. If Florida offers a great package with one of their many great prospects like Huberdeau, Howden, or Gudbranson, the Flames would be fools not to take that deal.

[afc wimbledon]

This sentiment seems to be really prevalent on this board and I'm not sure why. = I'm frightened to look at the standings. Even my stock portfolio looks better in comparison.

This is not a good team right now and not many expected to be = we have really sucked for a few years now and there was no reason to think this year would be different.

There's been an injection of youth, we look like we're going to draft very high in a deep draft, and we have assets to sell off at the deadline.= The team sucks so bad we might as well bring up the kids as it won't make a bit of difference, we will suck so bad we will draft top 5.

In addition, we have a lot of salary coming off the books this year.= The team is full of players that suck so badly no one in their right mind would bother to resign them.

That sounds like the right direction to me in the big picture. = I've run out of my meds again.


It just takes a bit of perspective. = I want whatever the hell you are smoking.

[moon]

I have zero interest in tracing and re-posting your drivel to prove to you that you do little other than complain here about everything and everyone. I have very little respect for your opinion because of how skewed and dripping with pessimism it always is.

I have over 13,000 posts here I can guarantee you I do a lot more than complain. But as usual you read what you want and ignore reality.


Iginla isn't going to be traded for elite talent. He would be traded for young emerging talent with potential. There is no sure thing.

With that said, there is just as much chance we can have the same level of success keeping him, drafting well and making other decisions to rebuild through the draft, free agency and other trades in the next few seasons.

You don't like that and don't agree.

He is going to be traded for elite level prospects. The kind we are highly unlikely going to get anywhere else other than by trading him.

There is no way that we have an equal chance of having a successful rebuild by drafting later (especially outside of the top 5) and keeping old declining players over young, talented guys.

You may not like that but it is a fact.

[Calgary Highlander]

Part of me thinks that that wasn't just lawyer speak. And that has me terrified that this organization and its owners/management don't have the fortitude to make the tough calls.

[Phanuthier]

There's been an injection of youth, we look like we're going to draft very high in a deep draft, and we have assets to sell off at the deadline.
While there are some good young players, there are no real blue chippers. Sven is the closest to one. Nimesz is good, but 2nd line potential? Byron - 2nd line. Horak - 2nd line. Backlund - I'd argue 1st line, but tonights not a good night for that. Brodie? Still think he's 2nd-3rd D. Butler I see as 3rd-4th D.

I see a lot of 2nd liners / 2nd pairing defenseman with one or two 1st liners and no blueline studs - IF they all turn out as expected. There is a large gap between our core of early 30's, and our future of early 20's - the 22-30 range is very thin - Gio and Bouw. That huge gap is also scary. As we wait for Sven and Nimesz, Iginla will be 35? 36?

... AND, to barely hang on as a tier above bottom dweller, if we even are, is riding on the back of Kiprusoff. I want to first see this team be competitive without Kiprusoff, then put in an all star goalie... rather than hang onto a all star goalie to keep from being a last place team.


In addition, we have a lot of salary coming off the books this year.

Yeah, us and 23 other teams in the league. There's a large pool of teams out there doing bidding as well.


I look at teams around the league, we are a league away from being a competitive thread to the contenders of the league; being a dark horse is a distant shadow. At best, we're a pipsqueek threat to make the playoffs, riding on the hope that teams will underestimate us in the playoffs and we can get through a round before the rest of the league finds out they make have to take the Flames semi-seriously. The good teams are the ones that everyone else marks on their calendar as a bench mark - that used to be us. Listen to the interviews - nobody does that even more.

[moon]

What a joke. Iginla is nothing like Sundin. Until he ditches his team to play with the Canucks, that comparison is an insult.

He was a FA how did he ditch his team?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

This sentiment seems to be really prevalent on this board and I'm not sure why.

This is not a good team right now and not many expected to be.

There's been an injection of youth, we look like we're going to draft very high in a deep draft, and we have assets to sell off at the deadline.

In addition, we have a lot of salary coming off the books this year.

That sounds like the right direction to me in the big picture. In the small picture of this season, we're not heading in the "right" direction in terms of making the playoffs, but I'm at a loss why that notion hasn't been dispelled for some people around here.

It's like there's shock and outrage when we keep losing.

In the big picture, we have a lot of young bright spots, we have some assets that can be sold off at the deadline, we'll draft high, and we have a ton of salary to throw around in free agency this summer.

It just takes a bit of perspective.

I think the people saying it is heading in the wrong direction are saying that because it looks like we're doing a partial rebuild. Which we've seen completely fail in the past. It is better to be horrible and get the top 3 pick, than be below average and get a pick in the 7-13 range. There is often a huge difference there and the chance of getting a franchise player is much better in the draft if you pick top 3-5. You typically aren't going to get a Malkin/Crosby/Toews/E. Staal/Seguin/RNH/etc type of talent outside of the top 5 picks.

So keeping guys like Iginla and Kiprusoff while rebuilding may in fact somewhat sabotage our rebuild. Not only do we lose the final good years of those stars while rebuilding, but we miss out on picking a franchise player in the draft, AND we miss out on acquiring more 1st rounders and top notch prospects by trading them.

That is the perspective of some around here and I'm sure you can see the logic. We may just need one year of bottom 3 in the league to get our next franchise player. The Flames have NEVER drafted in the top 5 of the draft. It could be a player to build around.

[Dion]

Iginla would command a king's ransom for sure. There's no way you deal Iginla just for the hell of it. It would have to take the right offer, from the right team that would take Iginla to a cup. I'd be embarrassed as a fan if the Flames tried to deal him to the NYI or Florida.

Saying that... look at this team right now. It's a pretty bad team, going in the wrong direction. There's a cancer of losing culture growing in this team and a feeling of apathy when they are on the ice. Its really sad, and symptomatic of the late 90's Flames. Unlike a few years ago, when the Flames are down, I don't see the leadership or the talent to rebound. I really hope Feaster knows what the hell he's doing, because the only thing sadder than Iginla beginning the first 7 years of his career missing the playoffs, is finishing the last 7 years of his career missing the playoffs... and we're 2.5/7 season there.

I would like to see Iginla get the same chance that Bourque did when he was traded to the Avs. It's highly unlikely he'll win a Cup with Calgary and i'm thinking it might be best if we could give him that chance.

[Captain_Obvious]

This sentiment seems to be really prevalent on this board and I'm not sure why. = I'm frightened to look at the standings. Even my stock portfolio looks better in comparison.

This is not a good team right now and not many expected to be = we have really sucked for a few years now and there was no reason to think this year would be different.

There's been an injection of youth, we look like we're going to draft very high in a deep draft, and we have assets to sell off at the deadline.= The team sucks so bad we might as well bring up the kids as it won't make a bit of difference, we will suck so bad we will draft top 5.

In addition, we have a lot of salary coming off the books this year.= The team is full of players that suck so badly no one in their right mind would bother to resign them.

That sounds like the right direction to me in the big picture. = I've run out of my meds again.


It just takes a bit of perspective.

Translated it for you


And what do you suggest?

Would you perfer a state of panic and that we force bad trades?

Again it's really pretty simple:

We have some good young talent, there's a lot of players coming off the cap this year and next, we will draft high in a deep draft, and can trade off some players for more picks and prospects closer to the deadline.

Would you rather we just fold as an organization right now? While the sarcasm and pessimism of your post is golden and hilarious... what do you suggest be done differently?

[Captain_Obvious]

He is going to be traded for elite level prospects.


Really?

Names?

That couldn't be any farther from a 'fact'.

And just because we don't trade Iginla does = we won't trade our other assets. Again, you lean to an extreme.

[kyuss275]

No crap Feaster say's " I really feel Jarome will finish his career in Calgary", that's what the owners want. From everything i have heard, if Iggy does not ask for a trade by the end of the season, i would not doubt ownership giving Iggy a blank cheque at the end of the year and saying ' just fill in what you want'.

This is not in Feasters hand, it is between ownership and Iggy. I really wonder how the Agm feels about it? I thought i read that he likes building teams through drafts and prospects. You would think he would love a chnace to get an extra 1st and a blue chip prospect.

[afc wimbledon]

And what do you suggest?

Would you perfer a state of panic and that we force bad trades?

Again it's really pretty simple:

We have some good young talent, there's a lot of players coming off the cap this year and next, we will draft high in a deep draft, and can trade off some players for more picks and prospects closer to the deadline.

Would you rather we just fold as an organization right now? While the sarcasm and pessimism of your post is golden and hilarious... what do you suggest be done differently?

Trade your best assets that are wasted on a bottem feeding team to both bring in more picks and prospects and also enable the team to drop the couple of spots to hopefully draft a truely franchise player to replace them in 2 or 3 years, it is pretty much the league blueprint in the cap era.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Part of me thinks that that wasn't just lawyer speak. And that has me terrified that this organization and its owners/management don't have the fortitude to make the tough calls.

Yeah. Nothing would be worse than seeing Iginla miss the playoffs with us for 5 years straight while he diminishes and we fail to suck enough to draft our next franchise player. It's scary to think about.

I don't think Feaster is deluded though, if this team continues to look like it has for another 1/4-1/3 of the season I don't think they can fool themselves that we are a Stanley Cup contender anytime soon.

His statement about rebuilding during the session prior to the season does have me worried. At the time I foolishly thought we wouldn't be this bad :(

[moon]

There's been an injection of youth, we look like we're going to draft very high in a deep draft, and we have assets to sell off at the deadline.

It is nice that Horak and Brodie have played well but they are far from the top end talent that is needed to be successful in the NHL.

In reality the young talent that the Flames have in their line-up is likely in the bottom 5 of NHL teams right now, with a bottom 5 group of prospects outside of the NHL to go along with it.

In addition, we have a lot of salary coming off the books this year.

That sounds like the right direction to me in the big picture. In the small picture of this season, we're not heading in the "right" direction in terms of making the playoffs, but I'm at a loss why that notion hasn't been dispelled for some people around here.

A whole bunch of salary and a team that isn't going to be attractive to anyone worth using the salary on.

[Captain_Obvious]

Trade your best assets that are wasted on a bottem feeding team to both bring in more picks and prospects and also enable the team to drop the couple of spots to hopefully draft a truely franchise player to replace them in 2 or 3 years, it is pretty much the league blueprint in the cap era.


Brilliant. Should we do this within the next 24 hours? Or do you think there might be a qualified team of people on this already and that it might be a tad to early to panic?

[moon]

Really?

Names?

That couldn't be any farther from a 'fact'.

And just because we don't trade Iginla does = we won't trade our other assets. Again, you lean to an extreme.

I don't have exact names because I don't know which teams are interested in him but looking at deals for others recently and hearing talk of what LA was willing to give up for him last year and I don't see why you have such a hard time believing that Iginla can get some top level guys/picks back to Calgary.

[Phanuthier]

I don't think anyone is qualified to make statements like this unless they're part of the Flames organization and/or or in the dressing room, and know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe Iginla is the problem, maybe is isn't.

You mean like Warraner and Playfair?

[afc wimbledon]

Brilliant. Should we do this within the next 24 hours? Or do you think there might be a qualified team of people on this already and that it might be a tad to early to panic?

Actually I have consistantly said since the Phanuef trade that it should have been done then, 3 years ago.
To be frank the time to panic was over years ago, the team will suck for 3 to 4 years no matter what they do.

[Captain_Obvious]

While there are some good young players, there are no real blue chippers. Sven is the closest to one. Nimesz is good, but 2nd line potential? Byron - 2nd line. Horak - 2nd line. Backlund - I'd argue 1st line, but tonights not a good night for that. Brodie? Still think he's 2nd-3rd D. Butler I see as 3rd-4th D.

I see a lot of 2nd liners / 2nd pairing defenseman with one or two 1st liners and no blueline studs - IF they all turn out as expected. There is a large gap between our core of early 30's, and our future of early 20's - the 22-30 range is very thin - Gio and Bouw. That huge gap is also scary. As we wait for Sven and Nimesz, Iginla will be 35? 36?

... AND, to barely hang on as a tier above bottom dweller, if we even are, is riding on the back of Kiprusoff. I want to first see this team be competitive without Kiprusoff, then put in an all star goalie... rather than hang onto a all star goalie to keep from being a last place team.



Yeah, us and 23 other teams in the league. There's a large pool of teams out there doing bidding as well.


I look at teams around the league, we are a league away from being a competitive thread to the contenders of the league; being a dark horse is a distant shadow. At best, we're a pipsqueek threat to make the playoffs, riding on the hope that teams will underestimate us in the playoffs and we can get through a round before the rest of the league finds out they make have to take the Flames semi-seriously. The good teams are the ones that everyone else marks on their calendar as a bench mark - that used to be us. Listen to the interviews - nobody does that even more.

Again, perspective.

I responded to you saying "this team is headed in the wrong direction".

Again there are quite a few good young players already on the roster, a few on the verge, and a few attractive prospects on the farm.

nowhere did I say there were blue chippers or that we're "set" moving forward.

But we are headed in the right direction.

Everyone who keeps huffing and puffing about a rebuild needs to relax. We are rebuilding. It takes time.

This team will look dramatically different by this time next year, will have drafted fairly high, and hopefully will have moved some players for additional young prospects.

In no way is this team headed in the "wrong" direction moving forward. A rebuild / retool takes time and patience.


It is nice that Horak and Brodie have played well but they are far from the top end talent that is needed to be successful in the NHL.

In reality the young talent that the Flames have in their line-up is likely in the bottom 5 of NHL teams right now, with a bottom 5 group of prospects outside of the NHL to go along with it.


Again, coming from a guy who called Byron "garbage"... excuse me if I don't take your opinion as gospel when it comes to our prospect pool. You are notorious for downplaying almost anyone this team has in their system.

It's by no means top end, but it's a pretty good base to build on from here if we trade smart, draft well and spend some money wisely during free agency in the next couple years.

[kyuss275]

It is nice that Horak and Brodie have played well but they are far from the top end talent that is needed to be successful in the NHL.

In reality the young talent that the Flames have in their line-up is likely in the bottom 5 of NHL teams right now, with a bottom 5 group of prospects outside of the NHL to go along with it.



A whole bunch of salary and a team that isn't going to be attractive to anyone worth using the salary on.

I would also add that people need to realize that while we have a bunch of salary coming off the books at the end of the year so do most teams. I think we have the 16th most cap space for next year. That is not even top 10. The top 2 teams have over $40 million of cap space. To put it in another percpective Washington ( who has a lot more talent) is 17th on the list with only $500,000 less to spend than the flames.

[Captain_Obvious]

I don't have exact names because I don't know which teams are interested in him but looking at deals for others recently and hearing talk of what LA was willing to give up for him last year and I don't see why you have such a hard time believing that Iginla can get some top level guys/picks back to Calgary.


I simply said top young talent that aren't sure things.

You said "elite level prospects".

[moon]

Again, coming from a guy who called Byron "garbage"... excuse me if I don't take your opinion as gospel when it comes to our prospect pool.

I loved saying it at the time but hearing you whine and cry about the Byron comment makes it even more enjoyable today.

You are notorious for downplaying almost anyone this team has in their system. I admit that I don't get as worked up about guys based on the little things that they do outside of the NHL as others. It isn't like I am alone in the hockey world with my views on the Flames prospects just alone when put in a group filled up with many fans that tend to take a more homeristic view of the young guys.

It's by no means top end, but it's a pretty good base to build on from here if we trade smart, draft well and spend some money wisely during free agency in the next couple years.Its a base filled with guys that every single other team has and maybe a gem in Baertschi.

[moon]

I simply said top young talent that aren't sure things.

You said "elite level prospects".

Elite level prospect like a Brayden Schenn is certainly possible in my books of a type of guy that could come back in an Iginla trade.

[Tinordi]

The overrating of our young players needs to stop and that includes Baertschi.

[Phanuthier]

^ To me, the first steps in moving forward is that this team should be able to (a) compete at both ends of the ice, (b) show that they believe in themselves when they are down a goal, and (c) show they can win with any NHL goalie, and not rely on Kiprusoff so heavily. Star goalies are there for you to make the key save in big games, not routinely clean up your mess cause your top pairing defenseman can't clear the net, or you are pinned in your own zone cause your forwards don't play in their own zone.

This team has taken a step back each year the past 2 years, and this year seems to be the biggest fall so far. IMO it takes more than a few young players to convince me they are on the right track. I look at this team, and I don't think we've hit rock bottom yet. I think we're getting there, but not yet.

[Captain_Obvious]

I loved saying it at the time but hearing you whine and cry about the Byron makes it even more enjoyable today.


It's pretty clear you love being negative, but I couldn't care less about that comment in and of itself.

As I've said several times now, it just outed your bias and inability to be objective and really underlined what you're all about.

It was abundantly clear in Byron's good showing up with the big team to date you were more interested in saving face with regard to your asinine comments than you were giving the guy some props for playing well.

And that just speaks to my whole point about you and how much your opinion is worth on this kind of topic.

[Henry Fool]

As if tonight wasn't depressing enough. Refusing to trade Iginla sounds like a terrible mistake. There's no new team so long as the captain remains.

[Captain_Obvious]

Elite level prospect like a Brayden Schenn is certainly possible in my books of a type of guy that could come back in an Iginla trade.

Philly is in no position to add a seven million dollar salary.

[Captain_Obvious]

^ To me, the first steps in moving forward is that this team should be able to (a) compete at both ends of the ice, (b) show that they believe in themselves when they are down a goal, and (c) show they can win with any NHL goalie, and not rely on Kiprusoff so heavily.


Again, you talk about moving forward without looking at the big picture.

This team isn't going to take steps forward - this season - to contend for the cup... and it's blatantly obvious that we'll see a very different team in the next few years with salaries coming off the book.

It would be great to see this current team move forward in the context of the season but I don't think they're that good.

[Trailer Fire]

I heard from a few people (Canucks fans) that they would be interested in trading for Iggy. They propose Schneider and Hodgson would be appropiate. Obviously some cap would need to come back our way. Using Schneider and Hodgson for Iggy as a bulding block, where would that trade go? How could you make that trade fair for both sides?

I would love to see Schneider and Hodgson on our end, but I don't see any way to make it doable.

[moon]

Philly is in no position to add a seven million dollar salary.

So you just ignored the like and type comments that showed that I was using Schenn as an example of the type of elite level prospect we could get and not the guy we would be getting?

[Phanuthier]

I heard from a few people (Canucks fans) that they would be interested in trading for Iggy. They propose Schneider and Hodgson would be appropiate. Obviously some cap would need to come back our way. Using Schneider and Hodgson for Iggy as a bulding block, where would that trade go? How could you make that trade fair for both sides?

I would love to see Schneider and Hodgson on our end, but I don't see any way to make it doable.
If Iginla puts on a Canucks jersey, I am officially giving up as a hockey fan.

[Captain_Obvious]

So you just ignored the like and type comments that showed that I was using Schenn as an example of the type of elite level prospect we could get and not the guy we would be getting?


I thought explaining that Philly is in no position to take on a 7 million dollar salary spoke for itself, and there's no indication they'd be willing to make that deal.

[moon]

[It's pretty clear you love being negative, but I couldn't care less about that comment in and of itself.

You couldn't care less you posted about it 3 times in this thread alone. You must take over a thread when there is something you care a little bit about and good thing that Photon bumped up the server or CP would be screwed with the amount of posts you would have about something you are passionate about:


Again, coming from a guy who called Byron "garbage"... excuse me if I don't take your opinion as gospel when it comes to our prospect pool. You are notorious for downplaying almost anyone this team has in their system.

And you called Byron garbage. Its kind of tough having any subjective discussion with you when the storm cloud you live in skews your outlook that dramatically.

And FYI your labeling Byron as "GARBAGE" (think about that word) speaks for itself. It just goes to show how much point there is discussing anything with you objectively.




It was abundantly clear in Byron's good showing up with the big team to date you were more interested in saving face with regard to your asinine comments than you were giving the guy some props for playing well.

As Tinordi said the overrating of prospects has to stop. Byron was meh when up here and roster issues or not that is evident with him being in the AHL right now and not the NHL.

[afc wimbledon]

I heard from a few people (Canucks fans) that they would be interested in trading for Iggy. They propose Schneider and Hodgson would be appropiate. Obviously some cap would need to come back our way. Using Schneider and Hodgson for Iggy as a bulding block, where would that trade go? How could you make that trade fair for both sides?

I would love to see Schneider and Hodgson on our end, but I don't see any way to make it doable.

I can't see any reason for one of the highest scoring teams in the league to trade for a player whos major asset is scoring.

[moon]

I thought explaining that Philly is in no position to take on a 7 million dollar salary spoke for itself, and there's no indication they'd be willing to make that deal.

Which is why I never said that the deal this year would be with Philly or that Schenn would be coming here.

I said that a player like Schenn is the type of return we could get, not Schenn himself but a player like him.

It is the reason for using the word like in the sentence and the term type of player rather than just saying we could deal with Philly and get Schenn himself.

[Frank MetaMusil]

As if tonight wasn't depressing enough. Refusing to trade Iginla sounds like a terrible mistake. There's no new team so long as the captain remains.

I thought the same thing when Feaster declared Sutter's job was safe last week.

[Roof-Daddy]

Hmmmm, I wonder if this is Feaster pulling a fast one?

"I really feel Jarome will finish his career here in Calgary"

Sooooo, you trade him for a windfall return, restock the cupboards, and sign him July 1st 2013 at a discount price.......and he FINISHES his career here in Calgary?

;)

[puckluck]

GT: Moon vs. Captain Obvious. Captain Obvious with a big showing and is up 5-0 in the third.

[Captain_Obvious]

You couldn't care less you posted about it 3 times in this thread alone. You must take over a thread when there is something you care a little bit about and good thing that Photon bumped up the server or CP would be screwed with the amount of posts you would have about something you are passionate about: Tinordi said the overrating of prospects has to stop. Byron was meh when up here and roster issues or not that is evident with him being in the AHL right now and not the NHL.


I really don't see how it's difficult for you to understand. Calling a prospect like Byron "Garbage" doesn't get much more ignorant.

You ask why I think you're always negative and that couldn't be a better example, and in an ongoing discussion about our prospects, your inability to look at something objectively is very relevant.

But you're correct about the amount of posts.

Turning this thread into another "Moon pisses all over Flames Prospects" bonanza couldn't be any more played out. There are literally dozens of threads where you do this to no end.

If you'd like to continue with it, feel free. I won't waste one more post on debating anything to do with our prospects because you have no objectivity whatsoever and obviously have some issues to work through.

Which is why I never said that the deal this year would be with Philly or that Schenn would be coming here.

I said that a player like Schenn is the type of return we could get, not Schenn himself but a player like him.

It is the reason for using the word like in the sentence and the term type of player rather than just saying we could deal with Philly and get Schenn himself.


Well then feel free to name him or them without using the unlikely example of Schenn.

Too much to ask for?

[Beerfest]

The overrating of our young players needs to stop and that includes Baertschi.

And you need to stop underrating every Flames player in every thread.

Boom.

[Captain_Obvious]

Hmmmm, I wonder if this is Feaster pulling a fast one?



Feaster finished the interview I quoted in my first post and then immediately texted Incarcerated Bob to tell him about the imminent trade that's pending which will send Iggy to Montreal tomorrow morning. :ph34r:

[moon]

I really don't see how it's difficult for you to understand. Calling a prospect like Byron "Garbage" doesn't get much more ignorant.

You ask why I think you're always negative and that couldn't be a better example, and in an ongoing discussion about our prospects, your inability to look at something objectively is very relevant.

But you're correct about the amount of posts.

Turning this thread into another "Moon pisses all over Flames Prospects" couldn't be any more played out.

If you'd like to continue with it, feel free. I won't waste one more post on debating anything to do with our prospects because you have no objectivity whatsoever and obviously have some issues to work through.

LOL pissing on prospects?

Again keep on living in your bubble and making crap up to fit your idea of how things are while ignoring reality.

Well then feel free to name him or them without using the unlikely example of Schenn.

Too much to ask for?

Considering I don't know who is interested in Iginla it is probably more of a waste of time but I guess at some point in the near future I can go through every team and come up with a list of guys that would be involved in a possible trade.

The reason that I used Schenn as a quick example is that people close to the LA Kings have said that he was definitely available last year if the Flames would have given up Iginla at the trade deadline.

Seems like a pretty good indication of what he is worth and probably a little more useful that guessing at what team may have interest in Iginla at this point.

[868904]

There is nothing wrong with keeping a veteran presence through a rebuild and suggesting this team can't build a winning team while keeping Iginla over the next five years is just ignorant.

I hope Iggy stays too, but is he really going to re-sign here in 2 years?

Unless Sven and Reinhart and the other young kids are even better than expected, I can't see Iggy wanting to stay here, and especially not at a hometown discount.

In fact, I can seriously see him finishing his career in Edmonton as a UFA. IN 2 years time, that team will be a contender and they will provide him with a serious chance at a cup.

[Mightyfire89]

Hmmmm, I wonder if this is Feaster pulling a fast one?

"I really feel Jarome will finish his career here in Calgary"

Sooooo, you trade him for a windfall return, restock the cupboards, and sign him July 1st 2013 at a discount price.......and he FINISHES his career here in Calgary?

;)

Thanked because I hope that is the case.

[Captain_Obvious]

I hope Iggy stays too, but is he really going to re-sign here in 2 years?

Unless Sven and Reinhart and the other young kids are even better than expected, I can't see Iggy wanting to stay here, and especially not at a hometown discount.

In fact, I can seriously see him finishing his career in Edmonton as a UFA. IN 2 years time, that team will be a contender and they will provide him with a serious chance at a cup.


I really don't know... I guess it depends on how happy he and his family are, and this could be a drastically different team at that time. Maybe some savvy moves and drafts will have things looking a lot better and he'll like the direction.

Either way I'm sure that there will be dialogue in his last contracted season about where he's at and where the team's at.

Feaster said it was his feeling Iginla will remain here. He didn't say it was set it stone.

But I think both Iginla and the Flames intend to stay the course at present.

[Henry Fool]

I thought the same thing when Feaster declared Sutter's job was safe last week.

I'd let Brent go right away, but Feaster's view doesn't surprise me. Sutter will probably be gone when they miss the playoffs again and the management doesn't want to deal with coaching hassles in the middle of the season.

It's tough to keep commenting without becoming a wet blanket these days. I have faith in their current drafting but I don't know about the rest. It might be a long mediocre rebuild if the GM and owners aren't willing to draw strong conclusions and make tough decisions.

[I am the Liquor]

As an Oiler fan, Ive always admired Iginla and how the organization has been able and willing to hang onto him all these years. I remember when Smyth and Iggy were in their contract years, and there was talk of both of them possibly being traded, Calgary stepped up and did the right thing, while Lowe traded Smyth over what amounted to pocket change.

Needless to say, the Oilers went straight into the tank and only now are showing slight signs of recovery, with a large part of it being attributable to Smyth coming back oddly enough.

I know there is frustration for you guys, but I really would like to see Iginla finish his career as a Flame, if he so desires. Its the classy thing to do. Sometimes there are things are more important than a draft pick and a prospect. Like legacy and loyalty.

If the Flames decide to blow it up, it will be a long and painful process. None of you know yet what the true price of a first overall draft pick is. Mind numbing losing streaks the likes you have never seen before, completely inept and embarrassing performances. Being the laughing stock of the entire league and the butt of jokes of every single fan base, including perpetual losers like the Leafs.

Tanking isnt all its cracked up to be and I think the benefits of hanging on to Iginla outweigh the possible benefits of whatever return he may garner, which could be considerably less than many of you might think as his contract is fairly prohibitive for most contending teams.

[Lt.Spears]

I think what some of us are doing is looking at this like assets. The fanbase right now is split between those that see Iginla for the things he has done, his personality, his heart and passion and everything he has done for the team. And group that sees him as an asset in a failing organization. Its easy to say that trading Iginla is the best choice.. Because if you take the emotions out of it, it is the best move. its just hard as fans to accept this. The more we lose however the easier it becomes.

[Samiz]

I'm not close to being old enough for when Nieuwendyk was traded for Iggy. But would you folks who were around back then say that it is a similar situation to this? What was the reaction then?

[CaptainCrunch]

A helluva a lot of rage.

[kyuss275]

I'm not close to being old enough for when Nieuwendyk was traded for Iggy. But would you folks who were around back then say that it is a similar situation to this? What was the reaction then?


I was pissed. Nieuwendyk was my favourite player. It worked out well though. I have been a fan since the days of the corral and seen all my favourite flames over the years leave, you get over it faster than you think.

[Mightyfire89]

I was pissed. Nieuwendyk was my favourite player. It worked out well though. I have been a fan since the days of the corral and seen all my favourite flames over the years leave, you get over it faster than you think.

A helluva a lot of rage.

Joey joe joe junior Shabadoo was my favorite Flame at the time as well, but I didn't have a lot of anger. The much younger version of myself just thought, well, if he doesn't want to be here, let him go (for a decent return). At one point, I actually hoped for Kirk Muller (who was pulling a similar stunt with the Islanders at the time if I recall correctly)...*Violent Shudder at the thought.

I had a strange sort of zen approach to the whole thing (as opposed to the Gilmour fiasco which sent me into a depression that cast a dark pall upon everything I did for about two years).

[I am the Liquor]

I was pissed. Nieuwendyk was my favourite player. It worked out well though. I have been a fan since the days of the corral and seen all my favourite flames over the years leave, you get over it faster than you think.

Unless Iginla never panned out. Which is always possible. You never really get over those deals. For instance we got Ryan O'Marra, Robert Nilsson and Alex Plante from the original Smyth deal. Two minor leaguers that are longshots at best for nhl careers and one guy whom the organization walked away from and is now toiling in the KHL.

Plante came in the form of a first round pick and the other two were "quality" prospects.

Deals where you score an Iginla for a Nieuwendyk would probably be fairly rare.

[robertsfan]

I'm not close to being old enough for when Nieuwendyk was traded for Iggy. But would you folks who were around back then say that it is a similar situation to this? What was the reaction then?

Different situation. Nieuwendyk was holding out and the Flames were reluctant to re-sign him to what he wanted, partially due to his wonky back that kept him out of the first two playoff games against San jose the season before.

I think that Fleury's contract was up as well, and the Flames had to choose.

The reaction at the time was doom and gloom. The Flames were awful in October of the 95-96 season, not winning a game until Halloween I think. The trade happened in December. Corey Millen also came to Calgary in that deal and actually played well.

At least that's how I remember it.

[Phanuthier]

Unless Iginla never panned out. Which is always possible. You never really get over those deals. For instance we got Ryan O'Marra, Robert Nilsson and Alex Plante from the original Smyth deal. Two minor leaguers that are longshots at best for nhl careers and one guy whom the organization walked away from and is now toiling in the KHL.
That's why you don't deal Iginla for a few prospects, you deal Iginla+ for a bluechip prospect. Thats why I'm so pissed that Feaster used Regehr as a chip to dump salary, WTF... Regehr should have been used to get a blue chipper, not a average defenseman, tier 2 prospect (no offense to Byron) and a salary dump.

[Mightyfire89]

That's why you don't deal Iginla for a few prospects, you deal Iginla+ for a bluechip prospect. Thats why I'm so pissed that Feaster used Regehr as a chip to dump salary, WTF... Regehr should have been used to get a blue chipper, not a average defenseman, tier 2 prospect (no offense to Byron) and a salary dump.

Maybe nobody offered a blue chipper for Regehr?:confused:

[daveinspruce]

:chair::chair:Man some of you guys a FUNNY and CLUELESS. Really I can't understand for the life of me WHY the Flames have to hold on to Iggy till he retires! Why because he has the most points in franchise history? Well if that's the case we should of kept Kent Nilson,Joe Newindyk,Al McInnis,Theo Fleury all till they retired...is it because Iggy has a great smile? You do realize that Conroy taught him that trick right?
The bottom line is this....Iggy is OLD!!!! There it is...He makes 7.5 MILLION a season,he has what 6 -7 goals, is third worst in the league in +\-...And every one knows we have to go thru a rebuild and if we do it right it won't be all that bad. If we can get 2-3 first rounders,2-3 second rounders,sighn some real talent come July 1st. We will be back baby!!
But if Feaster screws this up and holds on to Iggy because of some sick misplaced loyalty then we are screwed for years and years and years..
I've said it before and I'll say it again.... I'm a FAN of the TEAM called THE CALGARY FLAMES.....NOT the TEAM called THE CALGARY IGGY'S....

[JiriHrdina]

Maybe nobody offered a blue chipper for Regehr?:confused:

Yup. I think the Regehr saga is a case where we as fans didn't understand the value he had out there. People were expecting the Sabres to cough up a kid like Luke Adam. It simply wasn't going to happen. And I count myself as those who had a poor gauge of #28's value on the trade market.

[trackercowe]

I am on board with trading Iginla if the Flames can get a kings ransom out of him. I would rather see him win the cup in Detroit, LA, or Philly than not at all.

I doubt any Flames fan will feel great about it, but the Flames have one of the worst pool of prospects in the league, and really need to do whatever it takes to improve on what they currently have in their system.

While our prospect base is slowly improving, outside of possibly Bartschi we have no bonafide prospects with first line potential. This has been the same problem the Flames have had for years; tons of second/third liners, but nothing outside of Iginla (and the occasional Cammalleri) as true first liners.

Horak, Byron, Nemisz and probably Backlund all may end up as full time NHLers, but it's unlikely they will be anything more than second or third liners.

Of course trading Iginla might not end up being a successful move either (see the Kovalchuk trade), but it may be the only route to take that could improve the team in 3-4 years, rather than 6-7 if we keep Iggy.

[minnow]

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Flames+blow+late+lead+loss+Blue+Jackets/5799011/5799042.bin (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0);)













Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/Flames+blow+late+lead+loss+Blue+Jackets/5799011/story.html#ixzz1fMPTOyip (http://www.calgaryherald.com/Flames+blow+late+lead+loss+Blue+Jackets/5799011/story.html#ixzz1fMPTOyip)

[I am the Liquor]

Iggy is OLD!!!! There it is...He makes 7.5 MILLION a season,he has what 6 -7 goals, is third worst in the league in +\-

And what kind of a return are you expecting for that package?

Do you think its going to be something significant?

If you are looking for a "blue chip" prospect as the center piece in an Iginla deal, how do you make it work from a cap perspective?

Are there teams out there willing to swallow Iggy's cap?

I dont think so. You would have to take some (significant) salary back. Im not sure an Iginla deal would be all that lucrative tbh.

Look at what Phaneuf got for a return for example.

[Mightyfire89]

You ARE the liquor

[VladtheImpaler]

I don't understand all this talk of "Iginla deserves X" or "Iginla has earned the right to X". Fata that. It's not like he's played for pork & beans while sleeping at the Mustard Seed. He's been well and appropriately compensated, and we don't owe him anything. I don't give a fata about any particular player - I just care about the Flames winning the Cup. We won't win one with Iginla - that ship has sailed. In fact if you believe Playfair and Warrener (and I do), Iginla has been more of a hindrance than help since Darryl left the bench. This team has been allowed to become the Calgary Iginlas - it's time the crest on the front took priority over the name on the back again.

[Mightyfire89]

I don't disagree Vlad.

[Mightyfire89]

With anything you said.

[Jacks]

If you are looking for a "blue chip" prospect as the center piece in an Iginla deal, how do you make it work from a cap perspective?

Are there teams out there willing to swallow Iggy's cap?

I don't want to see Iggy go but if he does .... yes and yes.

[zamler]

This team has been allowed to become the Calgary Iginlas -
So true. I am of the same opinion, I don't get why Iggy is "owed" anything, what is this obsession from Feaster and company insisting that Iginla will be a Flame for life, damn the torpedoes?

[minnow]

"In fact if you believe Playfair and Warrener (and I do), Iginla has been more of a hindrance than help since Darryl left the bench. "
Yeah, cause Playfair and Warrener aren't bitter.

[VladtheImpaler]

"In fact if you believe Playfair and Warrener (and I do), Iginla has been more of a hindrance than help since Darryl left the bench. "
Yeah, cause Playfair and Warrener aren't bitter.

LOL. Playfair is bitter because Iginla fataed him. What's Warrener bitter about?

P.S. If you don't like Playfair or Warrener, how about the Sutter brothers?

[Mightyfire89]

For whatever the reason, Jarome Iginla has been the biggest problem for this team for about 5 years. He's like the head strong horse who will pull no matter what you do, but doesn't have the ability to differentiate between progress and futile effort. Actually, scratch that, there's a lot of times where he's not pulling at all, so...yeah...not a good analogy.

[Mightyfire89]

LOL. Playfair is bitter because Iginla fataed him. What's Warrener bitter about?

Actually, that's a good question. What is Rhett bitter about? He was given every opportunity near the end of his career, what's his problem?

Hmmm, perhaps he is able to identify the leadership problems that have plagued this team since Conroy gave up the 'C'...

I don't know...

[Captain_Obvious]

I just care about the Flames winning the Cup. We won't win one with Iginla - that ship has sailed.

You're just another poster who's built it up in their mind that it's either trade Iginla - or we're not rebuilding - like it's black and white.

That just isn't the case.

If he wants to stay, and the team wants to keep him there is every possibility a rebuild and retool can continue around him and that he can be a huge help as the team turns around in the next few years.

I see nothing wrong with Iginla sticking it out while we move some other assets, draft wisely and spend our cap space on the right free agents.

That talk about anyone owing Iginla something is a bunch of BS. He has been a big part of this team for a long time and there are a lot of people who feel he can continue to play a big and positive role moving forward. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's not like Iginla is a rotten tooth that needs to be removed before the rest of the mouth can get healthy again.

That is such a narrow sighted view held by a select group of people on here.

[Gary83]

My heart loves the strong stance on having Jarome finishing his career as a life long Flame, but my head is terrified at the thought that they think there is some sort of solution involving keeping Iginla on this team.


A good post, pretty much mirror's the same thoughts and concerns I have. I could also see Iginla keeping a job with the Flames in a front office role. But the only thing I can see Iginla doing if he stays on the club is mentoring these young guys coming in - Baertschi, Reinhart, etc.

If that's the case, we probably have a few more years before we could even be sniffing the playoffs, short of overhauling the majority of the roster this year and magically adding a Suter or Weber and Parise.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

That's why you don't deal Iginla for a few prospects, you deal Iginla+ for a bluechip prospect. Thats why I'm so pissed that Feaster used Regehr as a chip to dump salary, WTF... Regehr should have been used to get a blue chipper, not a average defenseman, tier 2 prospect (no offense to Byron) and a salary dump.

I don't think defensive defensemen return blue chippers in the new NHL. Regehr is not a top 2 defenseman in the new NHL on most teams.

However if you take Kotalik out of the equation Buffalo was willing to deal Butler and Byron for Regehr. Two young players with promise.

[T@T]

For every Raymond Bourque who got traded to a contender and actually won a cup there are 50 other vets who didn't. Iginla damn well knows this and doesn't want to uproot his family for a "chance" at a cup.

In the last 10 years only one pre-season favorite has won the cup (Detroit).Some have made the finals but most crumbled like creampuffs.

Iginla would know even if he went to a "contender" his chances are still slim. I wish fans/media would just leave him the fock alone,let the team build up with him here and let him retire with the flaming C tattooed on his arse.

[PlayfulGenius]

For every Raymond Bourque who got traded to a contender and actually won a cup there are 50 other vets who didn't. Iginla damn well knows this and doesn't want to uproot his family for a "chance" at a cup.

In the last 10 years only one pre-season favorite has won the cup (Detroit).Some have made the finals but most crumbled like creampuffs.

Iginla would know even if he went to a "contender" his chances are still slim. I wish fans/media would just leave him the fock alone,let the team build up with him here and let him retire with the flaming C tattooed on his arse.

I wouldn't say his chances of winning a Cup are 'slim' if he's moved to a team like PIT... maybe even WSH... certainly BOS... there are a handful of teams that are somewhat likely to win relative to others.

Out of curiosity, what's your source on Iginla's desires and preferences?

[Gary83]

I really have to think Iginla would be moved in a contract year, that's based on what he might want. He wouldn't really need to uproot his family and if he wanted he could then re-sign with Calgary the following year. This way he's away from his family for a few months, as opposed to a year+.

[CliffFletcher]

There is nothing wrong with keeping a veteran presence through a rebuild and suggesting this team can't build a winning team while keeping Iginla over the next five years is just ignorant.

To become a contender, this team needs to draft an elite core. Iginla is the only asset this team has that will realistically get us an elite prospect or top 10 pick. Keeping Iginla will likely add a season - maybe two - to the rebuild.

That's too high a price to pay for sentimentality.

And that's not even addressing the issue of whether this team can move forward with new leadership and a strong new coaching regime with Iginla in the fold.

[Phanuthier]

Yup. I think the Regehr saga is a case where we as fans didn't understand the value he had out there. People were expecting the Sabres to cough up a kid like Luke Adam. It simply wasn't going to happen. And I count myself as those who had a poor gauge of #28's value on the trade market.
Remember - Feaster quoted that there was only 1 team he was negotiating with on trading Regehr (because Buffalo was the only one willing to take salary). So...


worked on a limited time frame (so he could make a hail mary pitch for Brad Richards... when that failed, Ryan Smyth... when that failed, used to resign Tanguay and Babchuk, and Babchuk is making 60% of Regehr's salary while being a press box player before getting injured) rather than take his time on a key asset
actually using a key asset to dump salary, for a player who was going to play in Europe anyways... I hope Feaster doesn't use Iginla to dump Stajan's salary too
not just Flames fans, but Buffalo fans, couldn't believe the return was Butler and Byron
almost every single hockey fan (not just Flames fans) I've talked to can't believe Regehr went for so little


... those are the reasons why Feaster just doesn't aspire confidence in me when dealing high value players.

[Erick Estrada]

Remember - Feaster quoted that there was only 1 team he was negotiating with on trading Regehr (because Buffalo was the only one willing to take salary). So...


worked on a limited time frame (so he could make a hail mary pitch for Brad Richards... when that failed, Ryan Smyth... when that failed, used to resign Tanguay and Babchuk, and Babchuk is making 60% of Regehr's salary while being a press box player before getting injured) rather than take his time on a key asset
actually using a key asset to dump salary, for a player who was going to play in Europe anyways... I hope Feaster doesn't use Iginla to dump Stajan's salary too
not just Flames fans, but Buffalo fans, couldn't believe the return was Butler and Byron
almost every single hockey fan (not just Flames fans) I've talked to can't believe Regehr went for so little

... those are the reasons why Feaster just doesn't aspire confidence in me when dealing high value players.

Now that Sabres fans have had a chance to see him play on a regular basis I believe they now understand. He's still the slow, aging guy he was here and hasn't exactly been stellar for the Sabres.

[Mango]

almost every single hockey fan (not just Flames fans) I've talked to can't believe Regehr went for so little

At first, I was one of those fans. Down the road, I realized that Regehr was definitely overvalued, especially in this neck of the woods, myself included. For years I thought he would be able to a fetch a great return.

I'm not really interested in getting into another Hannan/Regehr debate with folks, but I truthfully don't think this team would be any better right now with Regehr in the lineup.

On the other hand...

... those are the reasons why Feaster just doesn't aspire confidence in me when dealing high value players.

...I agree at this moment. While I think Feaster has been okay overall, I don't feel comfortable whatsoever with him potentially being the one that could deal Iginla. I like Feaster. He's well spoken and honest, but that doesn't always win you a lot of trades.

Part of me is frightened he'd deal Iginla to someone like Tampa Bay, and the Flames would end up with a package Vincent Lecavalier, Tom Pyatt and a first or something :bag:.

[Phanuthier]

Now that Sabres fans have had a chance to see him play on a regular basis I believe they now understand. He's still the slow, aging guy he was here and hasn't exactly been stellar for the Sabres.
I just did a quick look at Buffalo's message board... not much has changed since I posted this:

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?p=3355051&highlight=regehr#post3355051

Examples of current posts on Regehr : Short list of "Do Not Trade" http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=1043293

-Regehr (Hits a ton, blocks lots of shots, can shut-down top forwards and make life hell for them)

Oh and for further clarification, Regehr and Ehrhoff are guys I wouldn't really trade, Regehr being the physical lynchpin we have been wanting for some time now and Ehrhoff really fits the bill for the PP point man. I don't believe we have the guys ready now that can step into their shoes and fill those roles on a full time basis.

[Erick Estrada]

My heart loves the strong stance on having Jarome finishing his career as a life long Flame, but my head is terrified at the thought that they think there is some sort of solution involving keeping Iginla on this team.

Lots of posts in this thread but I like to concentrate on the best one. Feaster coming out and saying this pretty well confirms that the organization has no clue and we are heading into another seven year playoff drought. If they really think parading around a declining #12 on a bad team is going to continue to sell seats while the team flounders in the basement of the NHL standings they are going to be in for a big surprise. 2004 is long gone and fan apathy has already begun. The car flags are gone, you seldom see people wear Flames duds in public, nobody talks about the Flames at the water cooler, Flames games as pubs garner empty seats, etc. Calgarians are going about their daily business and the Flames have quietly subsided to the attention of only the harcore fans.

[VladtheImpaler]

It's not like Iginla is a rotten tooth that needs to be removed before the rest of the mouth can get healthy again.

Actually...

[Cowperson]

My heart loves the strong stance on having Jarome finishing his career as a life long Flame, but my head is terrified at the thought that they think there is some sort of solution involving keeping Iginla on this team.

What that guy said.

Cowperson

[CliffFletcher]

Well if the return is pretty solid then sure you gotta look at moving him but here is the way i see it.

Feaster is not going to trade Iginla this season no matter what. I think Iggy would still be tough to move right now given he has a year left on his deal. While he says he is not trading him now that could feasibly change. Feaster said he wouldn't trade Regehr but he did. Things change and this situation could change over time.

If the Flames do finish with a top 5 pick they could potentially add 2 future first liners to the team next year with Sven and this pick.

Yep. Then we just need three or four more.

[CliffFletcher]

With that said, there is just as much chance we can have the same level of success keeping him, drafting well and making other decisions to rebuild through the draft, free agency and other trades in the next few seasons.



Hang on - "just as much chance"? Really?

Moving Iginla does not prevent us from doing any of those things just as well as if we keep him. But we'll also have the assets we get for Iginla.

[CliffFletcher]

What a joke. Iginla is nothing like Sundin. Until he ditches his team to play with the Canucks, that comparison is an insult.

Sundin didn't ditch the Leafs. Management and fans wanted him to leave, because they knew they weren't close to winning a Cup and they needed to acquire young assets. In fact, his legacy in Toronto was soured because he wouldn't voluntarily leave sooner.

[Vinny01]

Sundin didn't ditch the leaves. Management and fans wanted him to leave, because they knew they weren't close to winning a Cup and they needed to acquire young assets. In fact, his legacy in Toronto was soured because he wouldn't voluntarily leave sooner.


Toronto had a $7M offer on the table the year he chose to go to Vancouver the team didn't want to lose him

[CliffFletcher]

And which "best" young prospects do you think he could return that are "sure things"?

Top young prospects are a heck of a lot closer to sure things than fanciful trades where we get front-line player for supporting pieces, or free agent signings that don't break the bank and handcuff the team for years.

Drafting your core is the way you build a contender in today's NHL. Everything else in this discussion - Iginla, rebuilding, all of it - follows from that truth. It's not a sure way - nothing is - but it's the most likely way.

[CliffFletcher]

That sounds like the right direction to me in the big picture. In the small picture of this season, we're not heading in the "right" direction in terms of making the playoffs, but I'm at a loss why that notion hasn't been dispelled for some people around here.

It's like there's shock and outrage when we keep losing.

In the big picture, we have a lot of young bright spots, we have some assets that can be sold off at the deadline, we'll draft high, and we have a ton of salary to throw around in free agency this summer.

It just takes a bit of perspective.

I think your perspective is comparing the prospects for the Flames right now compared to three seasons ago. So yes, things are looking up in terms of youth development and cap space compared to the recent past.

However, try the perspective of comparing the Flames to other teams and things don't look quite so rosy. We now have a maybe average prospect pool. While that's reason for some optimism, unlike almost every other team in the NHL, our roster doesn't have any impact players under the age of 28.
So overall, our age/talent profile is still poor (though improving).

Yes, we have a lot of money coming off the books this summer. But last time I checked, almost half of the teams in the league will have as much or more cap space available in the summer. Once again, the best players will get locked up by their current teams before they make it to free agency, and we'll be left with bidding wars and overpaying for second-tier players. That's not the way you build a contender.

[CliffFletcher]

Iginla would know even if he went to a "contender" his chances are still slim. I wish fans/media would just leave him the fock alone,let the team build up with him here and let him retire with the flaming C tattooed on his arse.

Maybe he's not having fun playing hockey here anymore (he sure doesn't look like he's having fun). So even if the team he goes to doesn't compete for the Cup, he may be happier there.

[Nauravakulkuri]

I really feel that we should trade Iggy to Minny if possible.

Iggy to 1st pick and Mikael Grandlund?

For the future!

[madmike]

Toronto had a $7M offer on the table the year he chose to go to Vancouver the team didn't want to lose him

Maybe. But there was lots of talk in the TO press the season before that the Leafs had wanted to deal him for a nice package and he refused to go. The fanbase was not happy with him at all by the end.

[Tinordi]

Yup. I think the Regehr saga is a case where we as fans didn't understand the value he had out there. People were expecting the Sabres to cough up a kid like Luke Adam. It simply wasn't going to happen. And I count myself as those who had a poor gauge of #28's value on the trade market.

Not everyone was over valuing Regher. Some posters pointed out what other players of his ilk returned in trade and it wasn't much.

[JiriHrdina]

Not everyone was over valuing Regher. Some posters pointed out what other players of his ilk returned in trade and it wasn't much.

Of course - there's always a range of opinion.

But on the whole - I would say the fan base was expecting a better return.

[Otsy]

I really feel that we should trade Iggy to Minny if possible.

Iggy to 1st pick and Mikael Grandlund?

For the future!

Trading within the division is always tougher. Although I'm not sure why Boston and Toronto have done so many in the last couple years.

[troutman]

Jarome will finish his career in Calgary, after playing somewhere else. Like Mike Vernon.

[Tinordi]

Seems to me like the organization is position itself to make the eventual Iginla trade look like it's coming from Iginla's camp.

[North East Goon]

If Jarome doesnt mind playing for a laughingstock of the league once again, then let him be! We suck with him and will start to gain top picks, it's just going to take much,much longer to get back to respectability. A 7 year drought is looking like a best case scenario right now!

[868904]

Trading within the division is always tougher. Although I'm not sure why Boston and Toronto have done so many in the last couple years.

Flames aren't making the playoffs or even competing for a spot so it won't matter where they trade him.

I actually prefer they trade players to Western Conference teams to strengthen them so they can beat on the Canucks. Even if all it does is force the Canucks to play one extra 7 game series. You look at the east and there are a couple of teams that are serious contenders and will be beating on each other before making it to the finals. The Canucks need some serious competition in the west.

Hell i'd trade Iggy to a contending western team for free just to piss the Canucks off. LOL

[wired]

IMO, Iggy needs a new team to play on. For the good of the Flames, and Iggy.
I will give the guy his dues, he was a top tier player for many years, and may still have a lot to offer.
A fresh start for Iggy would probably be a positive for him.
A Flames team without Iggy may be an energized team, time to pass the torch to someone else on the team.
Brodie is the next franchise player..... book it.

[2macinnis2]

Caps trade Semin to Det/LA for 1st + roster player.

Flames trade Iginla to Caps for Col 1st and Kusnetsov.

Iginla comes back to Flames in 2 years after winning Cup in Washington.

Everyone is happy.

[kyuss275]

Caps trade Semin to Det/LA for 1st + roster player.

Flames trade Iginla to Caps for Col 1st and Kusnetsov.

Iginla comes back to Flames in 2 years after winning Cup in Washington.

Everyone is happy.

The bolded part would be highway robbery. If any flame fan would not accept that as a trade for Iggy, then they care more about Iggy than the crest on the jersey.

[Captain_Obvious]

I think your perspective is comparing the prospects for the Flames right now compared to three seasons ago. So yes, things are looking up in terms of youth development and cap space compared to the recent past.

However, try the perspective of comparing the Flames to other teams and things don't look quite so rosy. We now have a maybe average prospect pool. While that's reason for some optimism, unlike almost every other team in the NHL, our roster doesn't have any impact players under the age of 28.
So overall, our age/talent profile is still poor (though improving).

Yes, we have a lot of money coming off the books this summer. But last time I checked, almost half of the teams in the league will have as much or more cap space available in the summer. Once again, the best players will get locked up by their current teams before they make it to free agency, and we'll be left with bidding wars and overpaying for second-tier players. That's not the way you build a contender.


Welcome to 2011. As far as I'm concerned you did nothing but state the obvious.

This team is going to take a few years to turn things around regardless of what happens.

I am not against moving Iginla for the right deal but if he wants to stay and the team wants him here through this process I don't think it's the bleak end of times that a lot of the people here seem stuck on.

[2macinnis2]

Welcome to 2011. As far as I'm concerned you did nothing but state the obvious.

This team is going to take a few years to turn things around regardless of what happens.

I am not against moving Iginla for the right deal but if he wants to stay and the team wants him here through this process I don't think it's the bleak end of times that a lot of the people here seem stuck on.

I'd agree with that, but I think the bigger problem is what he's bringing, or rather not bringing, to the team over the last couple years. He's scored goals and that's about it. He's become a perimeter sniper in a Brett Hull-mode.

I don't think that type of player as a captain is who the Flames want to build a youthful team around. In 2004, Jarome was probably the best player in the NHL. But he has changed a lot since then...

[Erick Estrada]

This team is going to take a few years to turn things around regardless of what happens.

Few years? You aren't listening. What people are saying is the turnaround won't start until Iginla is gone. As long as he's here this team is treading water as we continue to be bad enough to just miss the playoffs but not bad enough to draft top 5 talent.

[Captain_Obvious]

I'd agree with that, but I think the bigger problem is what he's bringing, or rather not bringing, to the team over the last couple years. He's scored goals and that's about it. He's become a perimeter sniper in a Brett Hull-mode.


I think that is a complete over statement and another example of something that's parroted on this forum to the point where a lot of people take it as gospel.

The team has been terrible for a few years now, but Iginla was still 8th overall in scoring last season.

Yes, he can and is capable of more than he's showing right now, but the entire offense is out of sync and gripping their sticks.

In the grand scheme of things he still brings a lot to the table and can still be a big factor for this team moving forward, especially if we see an influx of youth over the next few years.

[Stay Golden]

There are plenty of forwards who are loafers I would prefer Feaster to deal near the trade deadline for draft picks and deserve to get moved before trading Iginla.
After the trade deadline roll with even a few more rookies with energy.
After that.
Get that lottery pick, add it to next season with a new look Sven, Byron, Brodie, Smith, Comeau, Stemniak rebuild with all that cap space some quality UFA's get that desired Center and Iginla.
Will take 2 years but i would rather go with that plan.

[2macinnis2]

I think that is a complete over statement and another example of something that's parroted on this forum to the point where a lot of people take it as gospel.

The team has been terrible for a few years now, but Iginla was still 8th overall in scoring last season.

Yes, he can and is capable of more than he's showing right now, but the entire offense is out of sync and gripping their sticks.

In the grand scheme of things he still brings a lot to the table and can still be a big factor for this team moving forward, especially if we see an influx of youth over the next few years.

Not that I've bothered to look but how many points did Hull put up in his last few seasons with the Blues and Stars? He was a pretty important part of that stars Cup team. That said, he wouldn't have had a lot of value on a young rebuilding team.

I watched A LOT of Blues hockey after Al was traded there and I can tell you in an educated manner that Iginlas game is closest to Hulls now. Hull was a prolific scorer too. It's just not the type of player I'd hoped in 04 Iginla would become. If you think he's done much more than score the last 3 years or so, you're watching with a little bias, IMO.

[afc wimbledon]

I think that is a complete over statement and another example of something that's parroted on this forum to the point where a lot of people take it as gospel.

The team has been terrible for a few years now, but Iginla was still 8th overall in scoring last season.

Yes, he can and is capable of more than he's showing right now, but the entire offense is out of sync and gripping their sticks.

In the grand scheme of things he still brings a lot to the table and can still be a big factor for this team moving forward, especially if we see an influx of youth over the next few years.

Obviously with a no trade it has to be up to Iginla, but from a purely clinical point of view the most value Iginla brings to the team is his trade value, of course he will still be a worthwhile player if he chooses to stay, but he is worth immeasurably more if he goes.

As a veteran player/mentor to younger players Iginla frankly isn't much use, he hasn't had years of playing on a winning organization that goes deep into the playoffs like an older Red Wing or the like, he has a history of being hard to coach, not exactly a quality you wish to teach younger players and he also traditionally has a few soft months each season, again not really a good example to a younger player, ultimatly you do not want to pass on the values of the Flames of the last 5 years really as they have been an under achieving team.

[2macinnis2]

Pretty much agree with AFC.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Wow great topic, with rich insights!

Iggy, iggy iggy, what can we say. He has a NTC and NMC so he has final say on all transaction matters. I agree with the notion that we are sucking with him and without him. Last year, Post ASG he carried us I agree, but when he lost the steady play of Mo our team started to return to the style of play we see now. I still feel his style of play would be useful to our team even in a rebuild.

I see alternatives to trading him, but they may be as controversial as suggesting trading the ST. Albert Superstar. In a failing business, you must take stock of all assets in order to consider flexibility for return to profitability.

I say that if we can trade Gio we could land a sizable return. The play of Brodie has really inspired me of late. He has really become chippy and confident in front of the crease. Added to his offensive promise and I see a good replacement. To me if a real rebuild is the case, then players above the age of 25 with the exception of those with bad contracts, organizational importance, community importance and poor performance, should be moved. Unfortunately for Gio and his fans, it could be that he could land us a big package of picks considering his good contract and relative age.

Our defence without him would be less mobile, but I feel we have the assets in the pipeline or within the upcoming draft. Brodie also eases the loss of Gio.

So we move Gio, Bourque, Sarich, Hannan, stempniak, moss, glencross(due to stupidity), Tangs and Joker. that could jump start a rebuild so much so that we have a bunch of pick options for this upcoming draft. None of those players land a top 10, maybe gio, but a mid first and seconds and thirds in a deep draft could become valuable.

our defence is then Bou, Butler, Brodie, Babchuck, Carson, Smith, and depth options, too me that's fitting of a team with lottery aspirations in the deep 2012 draft.

if we tank at the right time ie this year and next year we could have a chance to get quality pieces. look at how Bartschi is doing? he fell in a deep draft and our mid 1st round pick looked good in that sense.

Another thought is trading Kipp. That is a surefire solution to expedite the rebuild as he has been the reason we have won at all this year. He routinely makes key saves to keep this team alive. Last night notwithstanding as I feel he was bailed out by the ineptness of the officials. He, if traded, could also be a chance for CT and Napolean to take up the mantle. It could be tough, but he could add to the pick and prospect haul, while securing lottery tickets.

In all, I wouldn't trade Iggy, I'd like it to be a cinderella story. If we get the right system with the incoming youth to this team, we could surprise. I feel we have a good opportunity seize upon our place as a bottom 5 team, since the problems they have aren't to be remedied without a stud centreman like one of the Staals, so what can you do? I say stay the course and keep the captain but send off his shipmates with any lustre. If you trade kipp, and your picks turn out and a few FA signings we could surprise again....soon, this way and 2-4 years.

[VladtheImpaler]

/\

Gio cannot be traded for at least a year now I would say...

[afc wimbledon]

Wow great topic, with rich insights!

Iggy, iggy iggy, what can we say. He has a NTC and NMC so he has final say on all transaction matters. I agree with the notion that we are sucking with him and without him. Last year, Post ASG he carried us I agree, but when he lost the steady play of Mo our team started to return to the style of play we see now. I still feel his style of play would be useful to our team even in a rebuild.

I see alternatives to trading him, but they may be as controversial as suggesting trading the ST. Albert Superstar. In a failing business, you must take stock of all assets in order to consider flexibility for return to profitability.

I say that if we can trade Gio we could land a sizable return. The play of Brodie has really inspired me of late. He has really become chippy and confident in front of the crease. Added to his offensive promise and I see a good replacement. To me if a real rebuild is the case, then players above the age of 25 with the exception of those with bad contracts, organizational importance, community importance and poor performance, should be moved. Unfortunately for Gio and his fans, it could be that he could land us a big package of picks considering his good contract and relative age.

Our defence without him would be less mobile, but I feel we have the assets in the pipeline or within the upcoming draft. Brodie also eases the loss of Gio.

So we move Gio, Bourque, Sarich, Hannan, stempniak, moss, glencross(due to stupidity), and that could jump start a rebuild so much so that we have a bunch of pick options for this upcoming draft. None of those players land a top 10, maybe gio, but a mid first and seconds and thirds in a deep draft could become valuable.

our defence is then Bou, Butler, Brodie, Babchuck, Carson, Smith, and depth options, too me that's fitting of a team with lottery aspirations in the deep 2012 draft.

if we tank at the right time ie this year and next year we could have a chance to get quality pieces. look at how Bartschi is doing? he fell in a deep draft and our mid 1st round pick looked good in that sense.

Another thought is trading Kipp. That is a surefire solution to expedite the rebuild as he has been the reason we have won at all this year. He routinely makes key saves to keep this team alive. Last night notwithstanding as I feel he was bailed out by the ineptness of the officials. He, if traded, could also be a chance for CT and Napolean to take up the mantle. It could be tough, but he could add to the pick and prospect haul, while securing lottery tickets.

In all, I wouldn't trade Iggy, I'd like it to be a cinderella story. If we get the right system with the incoming youth to this team, we could surprise. I feel we have a good opportunity seize upon our place as a bottom 5 team, since the problems they have aren't to be remedied without a stud centreman like one of the Staals, so what can you do? I say stay the course and keep the captain but send off his shipmates with any lustre. If you trade kipp, and your picks turn out and a few FA signings we could surprise again....soon, this way and 2-4 years.

With Gio done for a good chunk of the rest of the season it is unlikely you can move him this year.
I suspect at best Iginla will retire a year or two before the new team is ready to challenge.

[Captain_Obvious]

If you think he's done much more than score the last 3 years or so, you're watching with a little bias, IMO.

Score to the tune of being top ten in the NHL you mean? In addition to fighting and other intangibles.

It's not bias, it's just keeping it real. Iginla is not a 38 year old Brett Hull right now. That's ridiculous.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

With Gio done for a good chunk of the rest of the season it is unlikely you can move him this year.
I suspect at best Iginla will retire a year or two before the new team is ready to challenge.

Yeah, he might be back in Feb, or a little earlier, but he still would have similar value.

[Otto29]

Iginla will be a Calgary Flame for his whole career. I believe Iggy when he says he wants to win with this team.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

There is NO reason to blame Iginla for this team and it's record.

-In over 10 years of his being, the Flames have failed to draft ANY complimentary scoring help.

-Now in his mid 30s and STILL excellent cond. the Flames have failed to surround him with support up front.

This team has let him down, but he hasn't let this city down. If he chooses to stay and I hope he does, there is work to be done but , seeing guys like Selanne (oh, with some talent around him?) he can still finish out a brilliant career here and there is 0 excuse for us not making the playoffs, when Nashville,Phx, Dal, Min are knocking on the door every year.

Firing this coach who got to handpick his staff this year and still fails, is step #1.

[2macinnis2]

Score to the tune of being top ten in the NHL you mean? In addition to fighting and other intangibles.

It's not bias, it's just keeping it real. Iginla is not a 38 year old Brett Hull right now. That's ridiculous.

Jeez, "ridiculous?" C'mon. You lose credibility when you say things like that.

Hull in his last 5 years with the Blues and years with the Stars actually scored more goals per game and almost as many points as Jarome has. Mind you, that was in the era of low scoring clutch and grab NHL. The plus-minus numbers are very similar.

Iginla... "fighting and other intangibles." Really? Iginla is a pure one-way player. In fact, I'd say towards the end both Quenneville and Hitchcock coaxed more back checking out of Hull than you've seen out of Iginla since 06.

I'm saying this out of watching a LOT of games of both players. Iginla was an epic player... Only 2 jerseys I've ever bought are #2 and #12. But I'm not a blind fanboy. For the past 5 years or so? Jarome is a sniper... That's about it.

[killer_carlson]

So Iginla will be traded to a contender; win a cup then resign with Calgary in 2013/2014 to finish his career.


That possibility is certainly still available based on Feaster's comments.

[killer_carlson]

Jeez, "ridiculous?" C'mon. You lose credibility when you say things like that.

Hull in his last 5 years with the Blues and years with the Stars actually scored more goals per game and almost as many points as Jarome has. Mind you, that was in the era of low scoring clutch and grab NHL. The plus-minus numbers are very similar.

Iginla... "fighting and other intangibles." Really? Iginla is a pure one-way player. In fact, I'd say towards the end both Quenneville and Hitchcock coaxed more back checking out of Hull than you've seen out of Iginla since 06.

I'm saying this out of watching a LOT of games of both players. Iginla was an epic player... Only 2 jerseys I've ever bought are #2 and #12. But I'm not a blind fanboy. For the past 5 years or so? Jarome is a sniper... That's about it.


Perhaps on your NHL11 game play.

In the last 5 years, Iginla won the Messier Award for being the best leader in hockey.

You can keep repeating your opinion over and over, but volume does not make it true. Any statement that Iginla is nothing more than a sniper is completely off base.

[2macinnis2]

Perhaps on your NHL11 game play.

In the last 5 years, Iginla won the Messier Award for being the best leader in hockey.

You can keep repeating your opinion over and over, but volume does not make it true. Any statement that Iginla is nothing more than a sniper is completely off base.

What has he lead the team to in the last 5 years?

Playoff success?

What does he do other than score?

Is he a tenacious hitter? Outstanding in his own end? Big time playmaker? Does he win most of the important one on one battles along the boards?

Give me some hard examples. What has Iginla done for the Flames outside of scoring goals. I'm not saying goal scoring isn't important (again, see my Hull example), but outside of scoring, especially with such a poor plus minus, please explain how he's been critical for our "success."

[2macinnis2]

Doing something I know people love around here... digging up an old thread.

I'm doing this because so many of the complaints around here have centered on Feaster not getting fair market return for Iginla and Bouwmeester. I'm not going to argue in favor of all of his trades, and I don't blame CP from being sensitive on the topic when we've been disappointed on returns on Phaneuf/Regehr before, but I do want to address those two recent deals in particular, and these old posts (at least of mine) I think do a lot to defend Feaster.

First off: a huge distinction to be made in the recent deals is that they were open bidding wars (unlike the Phaneuf trade, for instance). In these circumstances, any GM who argues the Flames did poorly on their return simply needed to offer more to get a deal done. Now, the NTC and NMCs play a role here, and for that you also do need to give Feaster some benefit-of-doubt on return.

More importantly, I want to go in more detail on the quality of the players dealt here. I really do appreciate what Iginla did in his 16 years here, but really most importantly what he did in 2004. His play in that playoff was probably the most dominant we'll ever see a Flames player in that critical of a situation in the playoff setting. But, as I've said over and over again, for the past at least 5 years, Iginla hasn't been much more than a sniper. Ever since he lost the weight after the lockout (preparing for the faster new NHL), his quality of overall play suffered dramatically. Jarome has been on a steady decline for a long time now. Now, he's still a pretty decent sniper, who may even get hot in the playoffs and score a couple important goals, but remember that is something even Camalleri was capable of recently. I still liken him to Brett Hull at age ~32+. A truly one-dimensional, one-way player... but in Jarome's case a much more likeable guy. In the end, since 2004, Iginla did very little to really lead the Flames. He's a smart guy: he figured out that he'd last a lot longer (and be much healthier) playing a clean speed game rather than a dirty power game. For the Flames, this was a shame, for his usefulness and value as a player was never close to the same. Iginla should have been the next Mark Messier... but don't fool yourself... Iginla, after 2004, was never even close.

Perhaps if the Flames dealt him 2-3 years ago the return would have been much greater, but look at even now how demoralizing the trade of the franchise's face can be. That team was more competitive, and even though I don't think Iginla has been all that good for a long time, I don't fault the Flames for holding on to him a little too long. Only one team wins the championship every year, that cannot be the only measuring stick, so there's a lot to say for sentimental value of sports heroes, etc, and what they mean to cities and franchises.

Bouwmeester, anyone who has watched closely knows isn't a very good hockey player. I was listening to NHL radio this AM on my drive to work and they were actually very surprised such a disappointing player could return a 1st round pick. They were equally puzzled by the Blues willingness to take on his contract... one even suggested they could flip him this summer if he fizzles the rest of the year. Again, this was a relatively open bidding war. If another team wanted to pony up more than St Louis, being ignorant he was on the block certainly wouldn't be an excuse.

Overall, I am happy to have multiple 1sts in a good draft. It's obviously a big time of transition, but we've seen young and hungry teams do well without being loaded with talent in recent years. I think this team in the long haul is better for being without the post-lockout Iginla as their leader. I'm not sold on Feaster, I just think the smaller returns on his sales reflect more the market's understanding of his merchandise value than him not being a better salesman.

[schteve_d]

Assumed that was recent.

Rude.

[trublmaker]

really...bumping a 2 year old thread

[2macinnis2]

So sorry guys, didn't realize the thread title when I bumped it. Was solely meant to be a discussion of the value of Iginla's play over the past couple years...

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Thread locked. Please use a more recent thread for this discussion.