Another Help Me Build a PC Thread!

[Meelapo]

Hey Everyone!

I'm looking to build a PC but I haven't really been keeping with the technology so I'm not really sure what to get and I could use some advice from some experts. My current situation is this...I've got a 24" iMac that I bought refurbished in late 2008 and I really like it. Unfortunately it has a 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo CPU and an ATI 2600 Pro (I think it's the mobile version) video adapter. Suffice it to say this beast of a machine doesn't run games at an acceptable frame rate at the native resolution of 1920x1200. Even if they do run at that resolution all the fancy features are off. For example, in Starcraft 2 I run at that resolution but everything is set to low. I once but shaders to medium and it looked incredibly nice. I'd like to get there one day!

I'm looking to spend about $1000. This does not include keyboard/mouse, OS, speakers, or the monitor. For the monitor I think I may go with the Dell 24" Ultra Sharp U2410.

So here are the goals:

- roughly $1000 without the items mentioned above
- able to play games at 1920x1200 with a majority, if not all, graphical bells and whistles, set to high, ultra high, or "super deluxe ultra mega high special edition XT turbo" (all games seem to have something better than high)
- quite as possible. My iMac is super quiet and I'd like to have something that is just the same
- I'd like the thing to last me at least three years. I know that games will get grander and prettier and I'm not expecting to play a game three years from now on super high detail but I'd still like to play them at the native resolution with some details set to high or all at medium

Rather than state what I think I'd like to go with I'll just list the parts and explain my confusion or rational for each:

Processor
I have no idea what to go with. First off, based on my requirements, is it better to go with AMD or Intel? Back when I used to know these things it was always better to go with AMD since they were cheaper and easier to overclock (back in the Athlon days). However now I have to pick between i5 or i7, Athlon II X3 or the Phenom.

Motherboard
Not sure here either. I remember Asus being the best in the land though expensive. The last PC board I had was Abit and I don't even think they are in business any more. Based on what processor I should get would determine what this should be.

Memory
Is 4GB enough or is it better to go with 6GB or 8GB. I know more RAM is always better but since I can actually upgrade a PC and memory tends to stay fairly cheap I don't mind upgrading to more a year or so from now.

Video Card
Here's the big piece. I've had my eye on the nVidia 560 Ti though I'm wondering if it's better to go with ATI. I remember when the Radeon 9600 Pro came out I had a whale of a time trying to get the ATI drivers to work. I remember nVidia drivers to work right away and be less of a headache to install/update. Is this still the case? Is a 560 Ti could enough or are there other offerings that I should look at.

Case/CPU Fan/Power Supply
I just need something quiet and something that can provide enough power to all the parts.

Hard Disk
I'm guessing going with a 1.5-2TB 7200rpm drive is sufficient. Though is it worth it to get an SSD for the primary partition/OS drive and then get a secondary drive for media and games? I think getting an SSD might put me well beyond the $1000 mark.

Sound Card
Do people even buy these things now? Is Creative Labs still around pumping out EAX cards? Is it okay to just stick with onboard sound? I'd like nice sound but I'm no means an audio connoisseur.

I've found this that might be okay (US $, http://www.build-gaming-computers.com/gaming-desktop-computer.html):

Motherboard
ASUS P8P67 Pro Intel P67 Motherboard ($190)

CPU
Intel Core i5-2500K BX80623I52500 Unlocked Processor ($220)

RAM
Corsair XMS 8GB DDR3 RAM ($75)

Video Card
EVGA GeForce GTX 560 ($215)

Sound Card
Asus Xonar DX PCIe 7.1 Sound Card ($70)

Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda 1TB ($55)

DVD Burner
Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD Burner ($21)

Case
Cooler Master HAF 922M ATX Mid Tower Case ($90)

Power Supply
Cooler Master GX Series 650W ($90)

Also, when it comes to gaming is it better to stick with Windows XP or should I go out and buy Windows 7 Premium (for the XP Mode support for older games that I've missed out on).

Have I even budgeted enough money? Is PC gaming still activate? Is it worth it to spend $1500 (after OS and monitor) on a computer made specifically for games or should I just spend that money on getting a bigger TV (currently have a 52")?

I think that's it. Any advice/mocking would be great. I'd like to buy this computer within the next couple of months or less with the monitor being purchased when/if it ever goes on sale.

Thanks!

[Vulcan]

That looks like a pretty good list of parts. I'd check the NCIX sales page for prices and Memory Express and price match between the two. I know NCIX will put it together and test it for you for about $50 and give a years guarantee. Memory express should do the same and you won't have to worry about shipping. I'm not up on the latest video cards so someone else will have to give you advice there. For a motherboard also look at the P8Z68 versions. They are a bit of an upgrade.

For price matching look at shopbot and pricebat. A few dollars here and there can add up.

Get windows 7 and I wouldn't be too adamant about following that list. Look for comparable parts that are on sale and look for reviews.

[Rathji]

Even if you dont get a ssd, dont get a 2TB system disc - grab something smaller (500Gb or 1TB) that is 7200, and then a 2-3T drive for data that is 5400. If you do decide to upgrade to a SSD later, you wont need to mess around as much.

[Hack&Lube]

Find savings somewhere and get an SSD drive for your main programs/games drive. Then a mechanical harddrive for media and files.

More than anything, not even processor, ram, etc. can come close to it. The SSD will completely change the way you experience computers. If you decide to get an SSD later, you'll have to reinstall everything all over again.

[MickMcGeough]

Find savings somewhere and get an SSD drive for your main programs/games drive. Then a mechanical harddrive for media and files.

More than anything, not even processor, ram, etc. can come close to it. The SSD will completely change the way you experience computers. If you decide to get an SSD later, you'll have to reinstall everything all over again.
I was just about to post the same thing. The perceived performance increase of an SSD upgrade is second to none, imo.

[Hack&Lube]

Given the choice of slower CPU and slower & less ram + SSD vs. fast CPU and faster and more ram + mechanical harddrive...

I would choose SSD every time. You won't be able to enjoy the speed of your CPU and RAM if you are wasting all your time loading stuff off your harddrive. An SSD can save time in your life! It's a time saver!

I put together an i5 2500K system with 8GB of ram and it's simply torture to use because of it's 7200 RPM SATA II (mechanical drive means it doesn't even come close to 3GB/s) speed. My dumb $150 netbook with a slow as hell 1.33GHz Atom processor (in order CPU) and 2GB of crappy ram...but in which I put a cheap 32GB SSD into actually feels smoother and easier to use.

[Icon]

nm

[Hack&Lube]

Just a general comment... I can't believe how much cheaper top-end videocards are now than they were 5-10yrs ago.

I just assumed they'd keep charging an arm & leg for the leading edge tech... tho I suppose it's not growing leaps and bounds in technology compared to how it was then.

Game developers are tied to console technology. There aren't any games to take advantage of faster hardware. The arm & leg stuff still exists, just you don't see people buying it as much or stores stocking them because the low-mid range stuff can still play everything fast already these days. Most high end gamers have to do things like play the same games but on triple monitors and in 3D, etc. to actually use high end cards.

[Burninator]

I agree with everyone about the SSD, totally worth it. If you can make it work in your budget of course. I am sure someone with more knowledgeable else can speak to it, but I think you could cut the sound card to save some money. 256GB would be ideal, but 120GB as a minimum IMO. But Rathji advice is good to allow for an upgrade in the future. I have a 120GB SSD for OS, main applications, main games etc. 500GB 7200rpm (was old OS drive) for documents, pictures, etc. 2TB 500rpm for music and videos. Windows 7 for sure, no question.

You mentioned a quiet PC, if that is important you may want to choose a different case. When I was building my computer I had narrowed it down to a gamer case and a quiet case. For whatever reason I bought the gamer case and I regret it. The LED's were annoying (ending up cutting the wires), it could much quieter, it's ugly and a dust magnet. Personally I would rather have a simple black box that doesn't draw attention to itself and is quiet.

[Hack&Lube]

Wait for a bundle. I bought my i5 2500K and a better P8Z68-V motherboard as a combo deal at memory express at just over $300 versus the $410 you are paying for that CPU and worse mobo now. Wait for a good CPU + mobo combo sale.

Also goto www.shopbot.ca and find the lowest price in Canada and price match @ MemEx always.

Nobody buys soundcards anymore. Don't you have an old DVD drive you can stick in? You don't need a new one. I haven't used the DVD drive on my new computer for an entire year.

[Rathji]

Don't you have an old DVD drive you can stick in? You don't need a new one. I haven't used the DVD drive on my new computer for an entire year.

Better yet, pull the DVD drive from the old machine and put it into a 5.25" enclosure (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX25715(ME).aspx) and you have an external drive that will handle what you need and be portable between machines, which in this age of netbooks without optical drives can be a useful thing.

[Hack&Lube]

^ Yeah, I bought one of these an it serves every computer I have at home or work or my friends since it's tiny and doesn't require it's own powersupply (gets from USB).

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX31338(ME).aspx

[Meelapo]

I agree with everyone about the SSD, totally worth it. If you can make it work in your budget of course. I am sure someone with more knowledgeable else can speak to it, but I think you could cut the sound card to save some money. 256GB would be ideal, but 120GB as a minimum IMO. But Rathji advice is good to allow for an upgrade in the future. I have a 120GB SSD for OS, main applications, main games etc. 500GB 7200rpm (was old OS drive) for documents, pictures, etc. 2TB 500rpm for music and videos. Windows 7 for sure, no question.

You mentioned a quiet PC, if that is important you may want to choose a different case. When I was building my computer I had narrowed it down to a gamer case and a quiet case. For whatever reason I bought the gamer case and I regret it. The LED's were annoying (ending up cutting the wires), it could much quieter, it's ugly and a dust magnet. Personally I would rather have a simple black box that doesn't draw attention to itself and is quiet.

It sounds like everyone here says SSD so I think I may go for that. Because of budget constraints I don't think I can afford the 256 GB but I'm thinking a 160GB should be enough and if I need more room I can simply just uninstall games. So this SSD really makes that much of a difference huh?

Wait for a bundle. I bought my i5 2500K and a better P8Z68-V motherboard as a combo deal at memory express at just over $300 versus the $410 you are paying for that CPU and worse mobo now. Wait for a good CPU + mobo combo sale.

Also goto www.shopbot.ca and find the lowest price in Canada and price match @ MemEx always.

Nobody buys soundcards anymore. Don't you have an old DVD drive you can stick in? You don't need a new one. I haven't used the DVD drive on my new computer for an entire year.

Yep, I've been using shopbot and pricebat to get some prices. I went to the MemExpress site and used their PC builder. I ended up making one for a little over $1k that had the P8Z68-V Pro and the i5 2500K.

I'll still have to do a handful of research regarding the SSD. I found one on NCIX that looked good but there's some sort of contraversy regarding it. Apparently they changed some of the internals that made the drive only 115GB = 107 GB after Windows 7 install but they were selling it as a 120GB. Not sure if it's worth it to go with that one:

http://ncix.com/products/?sku=53309&vpn=OCZSSD2-2VTXE120G&manufacture=OCZ%20Technology&promoid=1307

[Meelapo]

Oh yeah, and about the CD drive...I think I may have one so thanks for that idea. It'll save me some money that I can put towards the video card or SSD.

[Hanni]

Agreed on the drive, I regret buying a Blu-ray drive on my latest pc build a couple years ago. Aside from installing a few programs and the OS (which are dvd-rom's anyway) I never use it.

[Esoteric]

You don't need a soundcard anymore. I use onboard, and the quality is more than sufficient (Asus P6T).

When I built mine, I price matched Memory Express against NCIX, Tiger Direct and New Egg. I made an Excel chart, and showed it to the guy at the counter. He checked to ensure everything was in stock and was accurate, and matched everything on my list. Now memory express beats all competitor prices by 25% of the difference - awesome!

Definitely upgrade to Windows 7 - it opens up a lot more options, as Windows XP doesn't run DX 10/11.

[zarrell]

Great thread, as I am in the process of putting together a system as well. After doing some of my own research the last few days, SSD really does sound like a no brainer. I am curious as to what will give me the most video processing power for the money. Should I go with 2 moderately priced cards and run SLI or just get one monster card? And is 8GB of RAM enough?

[Hack&Lube]

You don't need a soundcard anymore. I use onboard, and the quality is more than sufficient (Asus P6T).

When I built mine, I price matched Memory Express against NCIX, Tiger Direct and New Egg. I made an Excel chart, and showed it to the guy at the counter. He checked to ensure everything was in stock and was accurate, and matched everything on my list. Now memory express beats all competitor prices by 25% of the difference - awesome!

Definitely upgrade to Windows 7 - it opens up a lot more options, as Windows XP doesn't run DX 10/11.

You don't even need an excel chart or print outs. You just goto the counter and say: "I want to buy this and price match it with ________.com" and then the guy will look it up and enter it in himself.

[Esoteric]

You don't even need an excel chart or print outs. You just goto the counter and say: "I want to buy this and price match it with ________.com" and then the guy will look it up and enter it in himself.

I think that the excel chart was more for my use, as I could easily compare the prices and wouldn't forget where they were from. Makes buying close to ten parts a lot simpler. :cool:

[Meelapo]

Is there a site that tracks price trends? I just want to see if some parts have been on sale in the past, how many times they've gone on sale, etc. I've narrowed it down to a few parts and I'm hoping I can get them for fairly cheap...

CPU - i5 2500K
GPU - HIS 6970 Turbo X IceQ X (super quiet fan)
MB - Asus or Gigabyte Z68 (though I'm not sure if I'll ever use the features of a Z68 board)
RAM - G. Skill 8GB

[Esoteric]

Is there a site that tracks price trends? I just want to see if some parts have been on sale in the past, how many times they've gone on sale, etc. I've narrowed it down to a few parts and I'm hoping I can get them for fairly cheap...

CPU - i5 2500K
GPU - HIS 6970 Turbo X IceQ X (super quiet fan)
MB - Asus or Gigabyte Z68 (though I'm not sure if I'll ever use the features of a Z68 board)
RAM - G. Skill 8GB

You can try www.pricecanada.com for price history.

Search for a product, click on the product in question, and then select price history.

[Hack&Lube]

I checked my receipt, my 2500K and Asus Z68 combo was $349.99.

A week later, there was another 2500K and Gigabyte Z68 combo for $345 with a $45 mail in rebate so $300.

I found it here
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/archive/index.php/t-1061650.html

[Meelapo]

Great. Thanks for all the help. It looks like that Gigabyte + Processor was a good deal. I think I'll have to wait till something like that comes back again.

[Meelapo]

Here's what I've come up with:

OCZ Vertex 2 E Series 120 GB SSD
Coolermaster Silent Pro M700W power supply
Antec P183 case
GSKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB PC3-12800 RAM
Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD4-B3 motherboard
Intel i5 2500K CPU
HIS Radeon 6950 ICEQ X Turbo video card
Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B CPU fan
HP 2509B monitor

TOTAL: $1320.78 before tax and provided all the pricematching goes through. There'd also be a $50 mail-in-rebate though I'm not holding my breath for that to come in.

[Hack&Lube]

Which item is the rebate for? I can attest Gigabyte rebates come through although they are in the form of prepaid credit cards usually.

I have the same Coolermaster PSU in one of my other computers. $1320 is a good price when you consider it includes a monitor.

How much are you getting the Vertex 2 for? There may be some better deals for SSD pricing out there.

If you aren't going to overclock the i7 2500K, the stock heatsink and fan will suffice and you don't need the Mugen 2.

[Meelapo]

Which item is the rebate for? I can attest Gigabyte rebates come through although they are in the form of prepaid credit cards usually.

I have the same Coolermaster PSU in one of my other computers. $1320 is a good price when you consider it includes a monitor.

How much are you getting the Vertex 2 for? There may be some better deals for SSD pricing out there.

If you aren't going to overclock the i7 2500K, the stock heatsink and fan will suffice and you don't need the Mugen 2.

There are two rebates. The first is for the Gigabyte board and it sounds like there shouldn't be any issues.

The second is for the Vertex 2. It's a $40 mail-in-rebate from Memory Express.

When it comes to the price of the Vertex 2 it's a bit of a gray area and I'm not sure if MemX will go for the price match. NewEgg has is for $169.99. MemX is selling it for $159.99 though that is AFTER a $40 MIR. Their current price is $229.99 less $40 instant savings for $189.99. I'm not sure if they will price match NewEgg with their before MIR price or their after price. I'm hoping it's their before price as NewEgg is still selling it for cheaper.

Provided MemEx goes with the pricematch the SSD would come to $134.99 which would be a rebate from OCZ.

I listed the incorrect pricing for the Vertex 2 in my spreadsheet so the computer total is $1300.78 rather than $1320.78 (with monitor, without tax, and without MIR included).

I plan on OC'ing the chip but I'm not very bright with voltages and whatnot so all I'm going to do is press the auto-OC and leave it at that.

[Hack&Lube]

The second is for the Vertex 2. It's a $40 mail-in-rebate from Memory Express.

When it comes to the price of the Vertex 2 it's a bit of a gray area and I'm not sure if MemX will go for the price match. NewEgg has is for $169.99. MemX is selling it for $159.99 though that is AFTER a $40 MIR. Their current price is $229.99 less $40 instant savings for $189.99. I'm not sure if they will price match NewEgg with their before MIR price or their after price. I'm hoping it's their before price as NewEgg is still selling it for cheaper.


MIR are never considered in price match. Just the listed price. So Memex would be $189.99 with the instant savings. So pricematch that with Newegg's 179.99. Then do the MIR after that.

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX30739(ME).aspx

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX31265(ME).aspx

One other issue is that MemEx has the E series and the non E series Vertex II for $159.99. I'm not sure what you can tell from that but one of them may be 25nm and one may be 34nm process. The 25nm ones are regarded as worse IIRC. They will also give you less formatted capacity despite the name of both being 120GB.

115 GB = 107 GiB = 25 nm NAND. 120 GB = 111 GiB = 34 nm NAND

Also, OCZ seems to have a bad rap in terms of reliability of their SSDs or instability but I don't have any personal experience with them. People might just like to badmouth them on forums. The Newegg review for the E series has a lot of people complaining about failed drives though.

[TSXCman]

Do you guys know is PSUs come in different physical dimensions?

I have a very basic Dell desktop with an i3 540 and tried to plug my HD 4850 in and it won't work due to the 280-300 Watt PSU.

The power unit seems small in dimensions, but I don't have another computer to compare it to at the time. I would like to throw in a cheap 450-500 Watt PSU (found for $30)

[Rathji]

Do you guys know is PSUs come in different physical dimensions?

I have a very basic Dell desktop with an i3 540 and tried to plug my HD 4850 in and it won't work due to the 280-300 Watt PSU.

The power unit seems small in dimensions, but I don't have another computer to compare it to at the time. I would like to throw in a cheap 450-500 Watt PSU (found for $30)

Yes they do come in different dimensions. the only time I have really had a problem with it was when I was swapping out the psu on an older dell pc, and the one I was replacing it with was way bigger.

[Vulcan]

Do you guys know is PSUs come in different physical dimensions?

I have a very basic Dell desktop with an i3 540 and tried to plug my HD 4850 in and it won't work due to the 280-300 Watt PSU.

The power unit seems small in dimensions, but I don't have another computer to compare it to at the time. I would like to throw in a cheap 450-500 Watt PSU (found for $30)

Be careful of $30 PSUs. Some of them don't have video card cables and are maybe no better than your Dell PSU even though they claim a higher wattage. Check the amp rating and their efficiency too (80% and above is great).

[Hack&Lube]

Small low wattage generic PSUs should all be the same form factor and size. It's only when you get proprietary computers, servers, or big powersupplies (1000W) that size really changes.

[Meelapo]

MIR are never considered in price match. Just the listed price. So Memex would be $189.99 with the instant savings. So pricematch that with Newegg's 179.99. Then do the MIR after that.

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX30739(ME).aspx

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX31265(ME).aspx

One other issue is that MemEx has the E series and the non E series Vertex II for $159.99. I'm not sure what you can tell from that but one of them may be 25nm and one may be 34nm process. The 25nm ones are regarded as worse IIRC. They will also give you less formatted capacity despite the name of both being 120GB.

115 GB = 107 GiB = 25 nm NAND. 120 GB = 111 GiB = 34 nm NAND

Also, OCZ seems to have a bad rap in terms of reliability of their SSDs or instability but I don't have any personal experience with them. People might just like to badmouth them on forums. The Newegg review for the E series has a lot of people complaining about failed drives though.

Yeah I saw a lot of that. I went to the OCZ forums and they are offering a program to people to send their smaller capacity drives in to get the correct 111 GiB capacity.

Based on all the reviews and personal comments on NCIX, NewEgg, MemEx, it seems like it's a real crapshoot when it comes to SSD and makes me wonder if it's even worth it. It seems everyone has problems with them and they just stop working or don't perform at the advertised speed. The reason I liked the OCZ was it was a nice size at a pretty good price and fit within my budget. Seeing all of these issues makes me wonder if it's worth it to just go with a mechanical drive and save myself all the hassle.

I guess I've got four options:

1. Stick with gettings a big SSD. Would you recommend something other than OCZ that's around 120GB and in the ~$160-180 range?
2. Get a smaller (40-60GB) SSD from Intel, as I assume they are far more reliable, that I would just use for the OS and primary applications (i.e. no games) and get a large mechanical drive.
3. Get a smaller (40-60GB) SSD from Intel and use that SSD caching feature that comes with the Z68 chipset.
4. Buy a couple of mechanical SATA3 drives and RAID 0 them (not sure if the Gigabyte board supports RAID)
5. Buy a large harddrive and just wait till SSD become more "solid"

If I do buy an SSD after the fact as use it for caching do I need to re-install the OS and everything? I know I'd have to do that if I decide to move the OS on that drive.

[Vulcan]

This is a decent PSU for $35.

http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=60345&vpn=CMPSU%2D430CXV2&manufacture=Corsair&promoid=1300

[Meelapo]

Here's what I've come up with:

OCZ Vertex 2 E Series 120 GB SSD
Coolermaster Silent Pro M700W power supply
Antec P183 case
GSKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB PC3-12800 RAM
Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD4-B3 motherboard
Intel i5 2500K CPU
HIS Radeon 6950 ICEQ X Turbo video card
Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B CPU fan
HP 2509B monitor

TOTAL: $1320.78 before tax and provided all the pricematching goes through. There'd also be a $50 mail-in-rebate though I'm not holding my breath for that to come in.

After a week of buying and returning and price matching I finally game my game computer.

I ended up going with the following:

Intel i5 2500K
Asus P8Z68-Pro
8 GB G.Skill RAM
20 GB Intel SSD + WD 1TB Blue in SRT
Corsair 750W power supply
Asus Direct CU II 6950 1GB
Antec P183V case
Asus 25" LED monitor

I do have a few questions specifically about video card temperatures. Idle my card runs at about 41 degrees. On load, based on reports from MSI Kombuster (not sure if that application stressed the card) it goes to about 68 degrees by the end of it. This is at a core of 845 MHz (810 Mhz stock) and memory of 1255 MHz (1250 Mhz stock). My concern is that at about 68-70 degrees the fan of the video card starts kicking it into higher gear and I'd like it to be quiet. What kind of GPU temperature is acceptable?

My other concern, again with the video card, is that when I was just messing around in Crysis I noticed that while in the menus I would see these tiny little black lines show every now and then. I wasn't sure if it was how the menu was designed or if my card is getting way too hot and it's showing some artifacts. Could running at 70 degrees or so cause this or could it be because the card has been overclocked? I've read that people clock the core at 900Mhz and the memory at 1300 Mhz and I'm well below that. Should I turn the OC down to prevent issues?

I guess the final question is I've set the Catalyst Control Panel to override applications and set the AA to 4x. It also gives me the option to do "edge enhanced" or "standard" and I've selected "edge enhanced". Again based on what I remember running AA really is taxing on the card. Is it best to leave it at this, change the AA to standard, or just let applications control the AA?

Thanks!

[Hack&Lube]

68 degrees is incredibly cool for a high end videocard. Mine regularily sits in the 80's during gaming. If you want a quieter cooling solution, I'm not sure what to recommend since the Asus Direct CU II 6950 1GB already has an oversized heatsink and twin axial fans. A reference blower design would be even louder. If you really want a quiet computer with a high end card these days, you have to go water cooling. There is no alternative.

Regarding the black lines or artifacts, if you are seeing them at the clocks the card ships with, then I would return it. To test this, drop the core clock of the card down to 800MHz and see what happens. 800MHz is the stock clock of most 6950s. My 6950s run at 925MHz core in crossfire and even higher separately.

Each game handles AA in a different way also so I would let each game do AA in it's own method and not interfere with it like you have by forcing CCC to 4X a set mode on everything. Choose AA in the game menu, not forcing it through CCC. Only use CCC when the game does not offer AA or offers unsatisfactory AA options.

Edge Enhance is completely different normal AA. Edge Enhance detects the edges of things like foliage and smooths them out. AA applies multisampling antialiasing to the entire frame (and there are many subtypes of AA as well). Then there is super sampling which renders the entire scene at higher resolution and downsizes it to your screen. Edge Enhance uses much fewer resources but will still leave jaggies.

What resolution are you running? Some games with high end textures may require a 2GB 6950. Higher levels of antialiasing require more VRAM. A 1GB card should only be doing about 2x AA if you are forcing it in the higher end games. A 2GB card would be able to handle 4x in most games.

My suggested antialiasing for you to use which works in all games is MLAA or morphological antialiasing. Regular AA and Edge Enhance do not work in many deferred shading games which comprise a large chunk of games made today. MLAA applies a subtle blur to the entire frame but one that is more focused on edges and it normally works well on everything except text. This will provide the best framerates with AA in many cases.

See the below image on how to enable MLAA. This is the only time I would ever use the override game settings and use what the Catalyst Control Center / AMD Fusion center option is. You want to leave it on application controlled and use the AA provided by each game normally. Only use MLAA when the game cannot provide AA or has an unsatisfactory AA for you.

http://sites.amd.com/PublishingImages/Public/Graphic_BrandElements/MLAA/enable_mlaa_516.jpg

[Hack&Lube]

One example of why you don't want to force AA is that Crysis was not designed to have the best graphics when you are using AA. Crysis normally runs with it's own implementation called Edge AA (not Edge Enhance) that is primarily focused on dealing with the high amounts of foliage in the game.

If you enable the Edge AA in Crysis, you cannot have AA. Furthermore, If you have AA in Crysis, you cannot have POM (parallax occlusion mapping). POM is very important in Crysis because that's what makes the pebbles, boulders, rocks, etc. look "3D". If you turn AA on, POM deactivates and everything looks flatter.

http://h2.abload.de/img/1n93h.jpg

If you didn't have POM, all these rocks would look flat. It doesn't make a big difference close up but it does in the distance.

http://www.crysisnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Crysis_POM.gif

[Meelapo]

I figured cooling might be an issue so I removed the middle drive bay, put a fan there and used it to cool the video card. Because of the length of the card I couldn't fit both the fan and the drive bay. The fan blows right on the card.

I wasn't expecting much in the way of over clocking but I decided to go ahead and change the voltage from 1.10V (default) to 1.20V and I was able to clock the core at 910MHz and 1310MHz for the memory. I was able to go through a full 3DMark 11 without it crashing and saying Windows has recovered from a driver crash (or whatever it says). I'm not sure if changing the voltage or adding the fan helped more and I'm not sure how changing the voltage helps (I guess giving it more power allows you to clock the core and memory higher). I might try and get more out of it and maybe change the voltage to 1.25V but I'm not sure if I should continue or leave it as is.

Temperatures have been roughly 40-43 degrees idle and about 77-78 degrees running 3D Mark 11. I'm assuming that the 3DMark benchmark (I'm running the free version) taxes your graphic card more than any other game would. Would being able to run one 3DMark successfully mean my overclocked card is stable or would I need to do more tests?

I am running at 1920x1080 resolution. I wasn't sure on whether to get the 1GB or 2GB version of the card and all the reviews I read stated that if you only play at 1920x1080 then a 1GB should be more than enough for a year or two. I didn't know that you needed more memory for more AA.

[Hack&Lube]

My two 2GB 6950s in Crossfire play games at 925MHz at 1.149V so you may have more room to overclock but every card is different. The newer non-reference 6950 also has a chance of unlocking to a 6970 if you are willing to bridge two pins across a lockout chip and flash a new bios.

No, running one 3DMark pass does not mean it will work for every game. One setting that worked for 3DMark @ 1.275V was not stable in The Witcher 2 until I raised voltage to 1.375V. A better test is a prolonged run of Furmark.

You need more vram for higher resolutions and more AA but 1GB should suffice in 1920x1080 except for a few games. Also games where you add texture packs like maybe Skyrim and GTA IV, etc. will go over 1GB VRAM easily.

In terms of cooling, that Antec case is pretty nice except sometimes it doesn't run as cool when the door is closed.

[Meelapo]

After all my testing it seems that you're right in saying that every card is different. I bumped up the voltage of my GPU to 1.16 and clocked the card to 890MHz core and 1270 MHz for the memory. For whatever reason at those settings Crysis 1 wouldn't want to load. It kept on crashing either during the EA intro splash screen or while it was loading the game (freeze and the sound just froze and kept playing an annoying sound). I clocked it to the default settings and everything ran okay. It's weird because at my higher clocks I was able to run the Crysis 2 benchmark without having any issues. The only significant different between the two, that I can see at least, is that one is DirectX 10 and the other 11. I've left it at default settings (even that power boost thing is at 0%). I figure my frame rates are going to suffer about 10 FPS but I guess that's better than having games randomly freeze. I even tried lower clock rates and the only thing that worked was default.

The other issue was that I used the ASUS tool to automatically overclock my CPU. It clocked my i5 2500K to 4300 MHz which seemed to be stable. While playing Starcraft 2 it would randomly freeze as well. This time during the menus and I knew it wasn't my video card because it's at the default so I looked to my CPU. I ran Prime95 and at that OC the computer froze during the fourth test. I changed the block setting to 40 and the frequency to 100 MHz (from 103 MHz) and bumped the voltage up by 0.05V (I think from 1.160 to 1.165v). I was able to run Prime95 for 40 minutes and then turned it off so I could power the computer down while I was at work. When I stopped it the program said there were zero errors. I'll run it again this evening while making my HUT in NHL 12 but I'm hoping the OC to 4000MHz is stable.

I'm a bit disappointed that my video card can't be overclocked without having a game crash. I don't know if it's the game or the drivers. I figure that it's probably just something with the card and Crysis, unlike any other game, it just exposing the instability quicker than other games. My hope was that I could at least run the first Crysis at the best settings at 1920x1080 but I may have to wait for a better video card to do that (I can run it but you do notice the framerates drop).

[Hanni]

I'm looking to upgrade my video card from the 2x 896 mb GTX 260's I have now. Thoughts on those versus 1 560? Any recommendations when it comes to bang for your buck? Looking for under the $300 mark, which doesn't look like an issue on the 560.

Also, anyone want to buy 2 GTX 260's? :bag:

[SebC]

^ Make sure you get the Ti.

[LockedOut]

I'm looking to upgrade my video card from the 2x 896 mb GTX 260's I have now. Thoughts on those versus 1 560? Any recommendations when it comes to bang for your buck? Looking for under the $300 mark, which doesn't look like an issue on the 560.

Also, anyone want to buy 2 GTX 260's? :bag:
I think the best bang for buck is still the 460 when it's on sale it can be low around $120-130 for a 1GB version. I recently bought a 560 non-TI for $140 after $30 MIR from Newegg just to give you an idea of how low it can get. Unfortunately all the best deals usually involve a mail in rebate.

[Hanni]

So my next question is any opinions on 2x GTX 260 896mb (what I have now) vs 1 GTX 560ti 2gb? Is it really worth it, am I going to get enough of a performance boost to justify buying a new card? What about a 1gb 560ti superclocked? Or even 2x 1gb GTX 460's?

Sometimes I miss the days when there was much selection, it was easier to keep up.

[Hack&Lube]

So my next question is any opinions on 2x GTX 260 896mb (what I have now) vs 1 GTX 560ti 2gb? Is it really worth it, am I going to get enough of a performance boost to justify buying a new card? What about a 1gb 560ti superclocked? Or even 2x 1gb GTX 460's?

Sometimes I miss the days when there was much selection, it was easier to keep up.

Depends on what you are running, what resolutions, what setup, what you are hoping to get, etc.

Single card is always more value for money than two cards because SLI is not even 50% scalable in many cases. The only time that makes sense is if you bought one card at full price a long time ago and just want to add another awhile down the road when it has gotten really cheap over time.