2011 Blue Jays Season Thread

[bluejays]

Now that the season is upon us, it's probably time to open a new thread for the season.

Predictions, predictions. Batting lineup looks solid with more speed, as does the closing and setup cast. Where I think the Jays will faulter is the starting pitching, mainly through injuries and inconsistency. Where I think they'll make that up though, is the Yankees struggles with SP, and so I think it will more or less even out. I predict the Jays will better their record from last season with 86 wins.

[flames_1987]

A whole different mood around this season, still a feeling of the rebuild being in full effect but can't help but feel a little optimism after last season. Really looking forward to seeing Snider progress this year, a full season of Drabek and J.P.

[Saint Troy]

Really like their lineup, but the starting pitching is pretty much an unknown and will need the bullpen to be solid again. That said, I think they are poised to be the Rays of a couple of seasons ago, and will make the playoffs.

[flambers]

Lots of interesting stories this season for the Jays;

-- How will Lind adapt to 1st
-- How will the Jays 1st year Manager handle it?
-- How long will E5 remain at 3rd?
-- Will Bautista show the power from the previous season..


As for predictions, I say the Jays win 83 games. They will lose a fair amount of close games.

Cecil, is the starter to watch. Is he healthy?

The bullpen is another key factor... lots of new arms.

[bluejays]

Personally, I think the trio of Rauch, Dotel and Francisco is a solid move by AA which will actually keep the Jays in a lot of games. I'm actually a Rauch fan, though I have to admit he's unproven in the AL East. There SP looks alright on paper, but we've already heard of problems from them (injury wise), and I think that's where they'll lose most of their games through large blowouts. But given that Yanks are looking terrible when it comes to their pitching, this should be a good season where the Jays can be on par with them. Is anyone else going to the home opener? I gotta get tickets from a scalper.

[Caged Great]

The bullpen will keep the jays in a lot of games, and it will remain to be seen if the offense can produce enough to overcome some of the problem areas like their starting pitching.

I'm hoping for 90 wins, expecting 80, and wouldn't be surprised if they got 70

[Caged Great]

The area that I'm somewhat worried about is the jays lack of any bench hitters. They just acquired Jason Nix from Cleveland who's got some pop, but nothing else. So the jays bench is

McCoy, McDonald, Molina, and Nix. All no hit defensive replacement types.

Hopefully, the position players don't get hurt for any length of time.....

[flambers]

The area that I'm somewhat worried about is the jays lack of any bench hitters. They just acquired Jason Nix from Cleveland who's got some pop, but nothing else. So the jays bench is

McCoy, McDonald, Molina, and Nix. All no hit defensive replacement types.

Hopefully, the position players don't get hurt for any length of time.....

Pretty much the same situation as last season, I believe Patterson is going on the DL. When healthy he will be on the roster on the bench.

[zukes]

Is anyone else going to the home opener? I gotta get tickets from a scalper.

Going to the opener and Saturday afternoon. 2nd level, right at 3B for the opener, getting cheapie scalper tickets for Game 2.

[Gozer]

#1 reason to be a Blue Jays fan this season; breakout seasons.

From a career-arch perspective, career best seasons come from the type of players that the Jays are loaded with:
-Young veterans poised to emerge as stars (Romero, Morrow, Litsch, Snider, Escobar)
-Veterans proving they deserve to be everyday starters (Encarnacion, Davis, Hill, Lind, entire bullpen)
-Wildcards (Aaroncibia, Reyes, Purcey, Lawrie)
-and with all these guys being backed up with AAAAers like Thames and Mastrionni in the minors. In case of injury this team doubles-down on it's breakout potential.

All this with a manager with accompanying high expectations.

Perhaps Joey Bats contradicts this theory, but I think he is the proverbial rabbit eating carrot right now - makes everyone else want it more because they've seen it pay off.

This is the type of rebuild I said could not be expected when trading Doc, glad to see I was wrong.

[nik-]

My top reasons to watch this year are Romero, Drabek, Arencibia and to see how many Bautista can hit this year (I'm guessing mid 30's)

[The Big Chill]

I would guess that we end up with around 85 wins again. I think our offense will be improved, but our starting staff will take a step back. Thats ok though, its all about grooming these young pitchers for the future. I'm REALLY excited about the Jays for the first time in a long time.

[Parallex]

McCoy, McDonald, Molina, and Nix. All no hit defensive replacement types.

Nix has some power in his bat... not a lot of contact skill though.

[HamptonIce]

I'm really excited to see how arencibia performs in his full-time role....i think dude has skillz

[flames_1987]

I watched the SNET preview of this years season and Zaun talked about how improved Arencibia's defense has been this spring behind the plate. This was the biggest hole in his game and holding him back from being the long term every day catcher of this team.

Even though the Jays have had some teams that could contend in past seasons, it was based on the notion that almost everyone would have to stay healthy and short term over long term. This organization now is building enough depth where this talent can come in waves and waves much like Tampa. And with Rogers making it clear they'll spend money on this team when the time is right, the Jays could be on the verge of something very special.

I've despised Carol Pavano and his half ass work ethic since his days as an Expo, so hopefully we can kick some Twin ass tomorrow.

[howard_the_duck]

My number 1 thing to watch this year will be Brandon Morrow when he gets off the DL. They shut him down last year right after his 1 hit gem and I'm curious to see if he picks up where he left off. That was the most dominant pitching performance I have ever seen....no reason he can't win 15 games.

I'm also really excited about the mentality Farrell brings, especially manufacturing runs on the basepaths. With Davis, Patterson, and Podsednik in the mix, the Jays will certainly have options late in games that they have not had in the past.

Bottom line, if the starting pitching stays healthy this team has a chance to make some noise. The playoffs may be a year or two off, but stranger things have happened and Anthopolous has built this team to be there for many years to come.

[Jiggy_12]

Opening day is here!

[zukes]

Opening day is here!

Going for lunch in an hour and then off to Toronto!! I am PUMPED! Even moreso now that I don't care about the Flames game tonight other than to hear how Langkow looked.

[oxygen]

Great article on Anthopoulos. I think he'll be GM of the Jays for a very long time, he'll make mistakes, but at least you know he analyzed it from all angles.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/03/30/asking-all-the-right-questions/

Looking forward to the season and beyond.

[ricoFlame]

Boom, Opening day! I love the optimism of Opening Day each year.

[Galakanokis]

Yeah, pretty excited to watch the Jays this year. I do not expect much but I really like what Anthopoulos has done with this line up.

Big reasons for optimism.

[MJK]

Thanks to MLB The Show, I am very excited for this season and look forward to watching a lot of Jays baseball.

[Caged Great]

At worst, a lot of our young players will get a lot of playing time, and hopefully develop into very useful players. Can't wait for 5

[Matty81]

Thanks to MLB The Show, I am very excited for this season and look forward to watching a lot of Jays baseball.

I'm a huge fan of this game, my favorite sports game - have just been getting into the online play this year and it's so fun. I got it this week and haven't noticed too much of an upgrade from last season but playing with the Jays rookies like Drabek and Aaron Cibia is fun.

If only I could clear out some of the older deadwood like E5 and Rivera in the online version. Maybe they'll surprise me this year and bring in some comp picks - sure as heck wouldn't have predicted Buck would do so well.

[Resolute 14]

Good god... Kids singing the anthem is only cute when they can actually sing. This is embarrassing for the Jays.

[Joborule]

Good energy and good start in the Skydome this evening.

[Beerfest]

3-0 Blue Jays!

[Resolute 14]

I'm not a big fan of this huge emphasis on stealing. They've already been picked off twice, but both times saved by Minnesota mistakes. Not going to get that lucky very often.

[Beerfest]

I'm not a big fan of this huge emphasis on stealing. They've already been picked off twice, but both times saved by Minnesota mistakes. Not going to get that lucky very often.

Ill agree they lucked out on the first one, but not the second one. Snyder might not of taken that extra little step if there wasnt a balk.

[octothorp]

If you're the Twins, that's about a bad a first inning as you can get... four runs allowed, blowing a rundown, an error, a hit batter, another walk, and a balk. Great energy and baserunning by the Jays!

[koop]

I'm not a big fan of this huge emphasis on stealing. They've already been picked off twice, but both times saved by Minnesota mistakes. Not going to get that lucky very often.

Yeah, and the double steal ended up being an unnecessary risk as Bautista walked. I'm not sold on all this stealing, but at least it's fun to watch lol.

[flames_1987]

So far we've seen the Snider stache, a balk, a double steal, Davis avoiding a run down at 1st, and 4 runs.

[flames_1987]

Great to have AA come up and do an interview this early. Romero looks sharp

[nik-]

A little late since I was at the gym ... but better late than never!

qag6w_Tp50A

LETS GO JAYS!

[nik-]

Jp!

[Beerfest]

Bautista!

[Hockey]

Back to back jacks for the Jays.


Yay for Lind cuz he is on my fantasy team :)

[flames_1987]

What an amazing start to the season!

[Finner]

Looks like the Jays are doing great. I'm just starting to try to get into baseball. I already follow the NFL/CFL/NHL.

I think i should buy MLB for the PS3 to start learning player names, values etc.

[burn_this_city]

What a home opener. Wow Romero's gf is gorgeous..

[Machiavelli]

Looks like E5 is back in full form :)

[burn_this_city]

Looks like E5 is back in full form :)

Haha I was going to post that but I figured no one was watching.

[Machiavelli]

There's something endearing about E5.

[burn_this_city]

There's something endearing about E5.

Hes a lovable clutz. Thankfully Jays had a 10 run buffer to allow him and Bautista's errors.

[Machiavelli]

Arencibia.....<3

[nik-]

Great night! What an opener!

[Hockey]

Who is E5?

[burn_this_city]

That was a pretty dominant performance. The hitting was outstanding, against many different pitchers. Hopefully a sign of things to come.

[Caged Great]

Who is E5?

Edwin Encarnacion. E5 is the term for error by the 3rd baseman, which is where he plays. He also makes a ton of errors, which is why he has that nickname.

[Resolute 14]

I'm sorry, but E5 is, and always will be, Ed Sprague.

[Jiggy_12]

What a great start..can not ask for much better. Pitching was great, and offense picked up right where it left off.

Love the agression on the basepaths. Always watch other teams do that to the Jays...will be nice to see it the other way around for once.

[flames_1987]

Davis finding a way to get back to 1st after being almost picked off has to the TSN turning point. That was a huge play to get back.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

If tonight is any indication, at least they should be fun to watch again this season.

Love the speed Davis and Escobar bring to the 1-2 spot. The double steal was one of my favorite hilights of the night.

First time seeing Rivera bat........he seemed a little awkward and 'off'. Kind of tough seeing the DH so low down in the order. Anyone have a decent scouting report on him?

[flames_1987]

If tonight is any indication, at least they should be fun to watch again this season.

Love the speed Davis and Escobar bring to the 1-2 spot. The double steal was one of my favorite hilights of the night.

First time seeing Rivera bat........he seemed a little awkward and 'off'. Kind of tough seeing the DH so low down in the order. Anyone have a decent scouting report on him?

He did look a little off but still drew a walk. Had a very strong season 2 years ago. He should still be a solid bat though for the Jays. Really enjoy seeing his name come up at the end of the lineup along with Rivera, Arencebia and Snider.

[flames_1987]

My favorite part had to be every Bautista at bat. He looked very comfortable, patient and drove that Home run just like last year. With everything he's said during the offseason and his reputation around the team, I don't think we are going to see a drastic fall from grace by any means.

[Beerfest]

Awesome start to the season..hopefully they can keep it up.

[Saint Troy]

Can't imagine a better start, love their lineup and it looks as though the chemistry on this team is as good as it gets.

[Fire]

That double steal last night reminded me of the old days with Devon White and Roberto Alomar.

[ricoFlame]

very different lineup today...Mccoy in centre, Nix @ 3bag.

[Sylvanfan]

Arencibia has the most epic season debuts in history. 2 games, he's knocked out 4 home runs a double, triple.

Jays should be a fun team to watch this year. Will be most interesting to see how Bautista does. Not only does he have a big contract, but he's also got the nay sayers saying he's a one year wonder. But he seems the type to keep going about his business and prove his worth. I hope he does.

[flames_1987]

very different lineup today...Mccoy in centre, Nix @ 3bag.

Molina behind the plate too.

[Sylvanfan]

Nice start by Drabek with a strikeout to open the game.

[Machiavelli]

And gets Morneau after the walk to Mauer. Good job.

[Sylvanfan]

Jose Molina with a homer to put the Jays up by 1.

[CedarMeter]

Jays looking good, Sinder with a nice hit 5-1 jays going into the 6th

[flames_1987]

Drabek makes a huge 3-2 pitch, to get that double play and get out of the inning. First major league wine hopefully and a great way to start the season. I wish we'd get to see Morrow on the mound tomorrow.

[Cowboy89]

The Blue Jays always look good from April to June. I'm excited for this season and what I've seen so far. But I start believing when they are within range of the post season in August.

[Lil Pedro]

From a defensive standpoint, I would much rather see Nix at third than Encarnacion. Guy played great today, and he contributed with his bat by knocking in a home run. Keep Encarnacion at DH or on the bench, he's too much of a liability in the field.

[ShaolinFlame]

From a defensive standpoint, I would much rather see Nix at third than Encarnacion. Guy played great today, and he contributed with his bat by knocking in a home run. Keep Encarnacion at DH or on the bench, he's too much of a liability in the field.

E5 being in the 3b/2b/SS pool for type a/b status is a much brighter outlook than being in the pool with DH. Free draft picks!

[flames_1987]

27, 000 and change at the game today. DJF tweeted a picture of the walkup crowd today and it was quite the crowd.

[nik-]

I saw that this game was on early and ended up forgetting and missing the first 8 innings. Blast, I wanted to see Drabek pitch.

How did he do?

[habernac]

Drabek looked great. Nice to see a great couple of games to start the season. Wins are worth the same amount in April as they are in August.

[Caged Great]

I saw that this game was on early and ended up forgetting and missing the first 8 innings. Blast, I wanted to see Drabek pitch.

How did he do?

Pretty much awesome. 1 hit which was a cheap single in 7 innings pitched. Dominate performance, and if he continues to pitch like that, we'll easily have a replacement for Halladay.

[Lil Pedro]

Drabek was on today, but I also gotta give credit to Molina. Every inning those two were talking non-stop discussing how they were going to attack the batters next inning. Just goes to show how valuable a veteran catcher is on a young pitching staff. Looking forward to seeing Cecil pitch tomorrow

[ricoFlame]

Starting Lineup for today:

1. Escobar, SS
2. Rivera, DH
3. Bautista, RF
4. Lind, 1B
5. Hill, 2B
6. Encarnacion, 3B
7. Snider, LF
8. Arencibia, C
9. McCoy, CF
SP. Cecil

[Matty81]

Starting Lineup for today:

1. Escobar, SS
2. Rivera, DH
3. Bautista, RF
4. Lind, 1B
5. Hill, 2B
6. Encarnacion, 3B
7. Snider, LF
8. Arencibia, C
9. McCoy, CF
SP. Cecil

Hope Davis is not badly hurt. Rivera that high up in the order is just scary - although he is due for a hit at least.

Also thought Nix looked like a better defender than Encarnacion, hopefully that doesn't bite Cecil - edit, just looked at Nix's career numbers over there and he's E5 calibre.

[flames_1987]

Davis really makes that lineup look a whole lot different when he's healthy. Will be interesting to see ho Cecil comes out today after having a tough spring and all the talk about the velocity of his fastball. Here's to a sweep!

[malcolmk14]

Cecil strikes out the side in the 1st.

[flames_1987]

Rivera with his first hit. Looks like a decent crowd again at Skydome

[malcolmk14]

Cecil makes quick work of the Twins in the 2nd.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Damn. solo shot for the Twins. Cecil looked fantastic up until that pitch.

[malcolmk14]

Rivera grounds into the second Twins double-play of the game.

1-0 Twins heading to the 4th.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

1-0 after 3. Blackburn is throwing sinking stuff all game long, the Jays have to try to be a bit more patient and take more walks. Make him start throwing the ball in the strike zone a bit more.

[puckluck]

Really glad the baseball season is underway. Hopefully the Jays can actually contend this season. What a slap in the face that would be to the Red sox and Yankees.

[Machiavelli]

E5.....facepalm.

[malcolmk14]

E5 makes an appearance.

Haha. Oh, Edwin.

[puckluck]

Encarnacion doesn't seem to be suited for third base. Way too many errors.

[malcolmk14]

Cuddyer caught stealing! Cecil gets through the heart of the Twins order with no problem at all.

Let's go Bautista - Lind - Hill. Put a couple guys on base!

[ricoFlame]

throwing errors are going to happen with him, JP picked him up, get over it.

[puckluck]

Blackburn is only throwing down and away. Jays have got to take some pitches.

[puckluck]

Lol that cop is hilarious.

[Caged Great]

Blackburn is only throwing down and away. Jays have got to take some pitches.

or try to hit them the other way

[Caged Great]

Nice error there on E5 instead of because of him. 1-1

[Machiavelli]

Nishioka manages to outdo Edwin.

[puckluck]

Good job busting his butt and forcing that throw.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Not sure what the Twins were thinking there.........if they held up the 2nd runner they'd still have bases loaded with none out, but thanks to a great throw by Snider to the plate they had 1st and 2nd with one out.

Cecil continues to get roughed up this inning, now 3-1 Twins.

[malcolmk14]

Morneau flies out with the bases loaded. Jays manage to stay within 2.

[Sylvanfan]

Yeah, I think Cecils day should be done after that inning. Jays are lucky to get out of that only allowing two runs.

[malcolmk14]

Jays get out of trouble again in the 6th after having runners on 1st and 3rd with nobody out. Don't surrender any runs, still 3-1 Twins in the middle of the 6th.

They have to take advantage of a bit of luck and score some runs!

[Machiavelli]

Homer for Bautista!!

[Matty81]

Frig Rivera is almost singlehandedly sabotaging the offence. 0/3 with 4 baserunners, 3 in scoring position.

[malcolmk14]

Jays made it interesting but came up just short in the 9th. They will be a lot of fun to watch this year.

They have Monday off and host the A's next; Reyes, Litsch, Romero set to throw that series.

[malcolmk14]

Incredible support this weekend in Toronto for the Jays! 36,900 average attendance over the first three games. That's great to see.

[dustyanddaflames]

Ya the fan support in this series was pretty incredible. I think Beaston was right, think it was him, when saying if they put a winner out on the field, the fans will come back. Great stuff, and great watching ball again! Dear lord - its been too long.

[puckluck]

Frig Rivera is almost singlehandedly sabotaging the offence. 0/3 with 4 baserunners, 3 in scoring position.

And not only that, but he runs the bases pretty pathetic. No hustle at all. Only the first game I've seen him so not going to judge him completely, but he needs to show some hustle.

[Caged Great]

Well, with Rivera if he continues to blow you can always DFA him. It's only a 1 year contract.

[puckluck]

Blue Jays with a tough start. 3-0 Oakland top of the fourth. Quick innings so far.

[flambers]

Blue Jays with a tough start. 3-0 Oakland top of the fourth. Quick innings so far.

yep, Jays hitters look off.... Weird to see Hill bugger up an easy play at 2nd....

[puckluck]

5-1 now and Rivera continues his jogging to the bases.

[puckluck]

5-5 now top 9th good come back sparked by a couple Oakland errors.

[Machiavelli]

Rivera is lazy, and all-around, quite terrible.

[Beerfest]

Jays win!

[puckluck]

Jays win with a walk off homer in extra innings!

[Machiavelli]

Walk offs are so awesome.

Tough to juggle this with the Habs game.

[flames_1987]

Big win. Can't wait to have Morrow back. I believe Batista is going to miss this entire series. 3-1. Good start to the season.

And dear god I know there's a Leafs game but 11 thousand fans?!?

[JayP]

Anyone else getting annoyed with this excessive "threat of the steal" stuff? Everytime anything good offensively happens there's zero credit to the hitter and just a constant droning about how the pitcher was disrupted. I mean, when Riveria grounds weakly to third with Aaron Hill on second and there's a throwing error, how can you attribute any of that to the "threat of the steal"?

How we were a top 10 offense last year without the threat of the steal is beyond me. Especially when Davis and his "disruption" led the A's to a bottom 10 offense.

[Jiggy_12]

Davis has been great so far and a large reason the jays won today. Rivera just doesn't quite seem to fit in with the game the jays are playing. What a great way to win...huge comeback.

[Flickered Flame]

A's beat themselves tonight. All those errors again. Pitching and defence is suppose to be the strength of the A's but so far the bull pen has been shaky and the team has made 9 errors in the first 4 games of the season.

[puckluck]

A's beat themselves tonight. All those errors again. Pitching and defence is suppose to be the strength of the A's but so far the bull pen has been shaky and the team has made 9 errors in the first 4 games of the season.

Agreed, but I thought their pitching was excellent. If it wasn't for the errors this game would have been over with a Jays loss. They made 2 or 3 errors in one inning which allowed the Jays to tie it.

The first 4 or 5 innings the Oakland pitcher was getting out of innings with 6 or 7 pitches. This loss falls on their defence IMO.

[flames_1987]

And even thought it comes with limited knowledge compared to some of the elite baseball stats, but doesn't moneyball put an emphasis on defense really not mattering all that much?

[Trojan97]

Anyone else getting annoyed with this excessive "threat of the steal" stuff? Everytime anything good offensively happens there's zero credit to the hitter and just a constant droning about how the pitcher was disrupted. I mean, when Riveria grounds weakly to third with Aaron Hill on second and there's a throwing error, how can you attribute any of that to the "threat of the steal"?

How we were a top 10 offense last year without the threat of the steal is beyond me. Especially when Davis and his "disruption" led the A's to a bottom 10 offense.

It annoys me more because there's no proof that speed or base stealing have any sort of affect on opposition pitching.

[JayP]

And even thought it comes with limited knowledge compared to some of the elite baseball stats, but doesn't moneyball put an emphasis on defense really not mattering all that much?

Well, the term moneyball doesn't really mean much anymore, but at the time of the book advanced stats and sabermetrics didn't really put much value into defense. Now, as defensive stats are becoming better and better, it's a completely different story.

[JayP]

It annoys me more because there's no proof that speed or base stealing have any sort of affect on opposition pitching.

There's actually some statistical proof that a base-stealer actually disrupts the hitter. One of the best advanced stats books out there "The Book - Playing the percentages in baseball" shows this pretty clearly. When there's a disruptive base-stealer on base, a hitter's numbers actually get worse than his typical numbers.

[Flickered Flame]

And even thought it comes with limited knowledge compared to some of the elite baseball stats, but doesn't moneyball put an emphasis on defense really not mattering all that much?

The A's have really started to move away from the moneyball philosophy mainly because they don't have the bombers to play that way. Last year they were actually very aggressive on the base paths, not yet this year but I expect it will come although not having Davis and his 40 + stolen bases will hurt that.

[Resolute 14]

And dear god I know there's a Leafs game but 11 thousand fans?!?

I'd say to get used to it. Unless it is a big name opponent, weekday crowds are always going to be small.

Could be worse, the Indians drew 9853 and 8726 to their Saturday-Sunday games, then only 9025 last night for the Best Red Sox Team Ever!™

[Matty81]

Dallas Braden scratched from his start tonight. Tyson Ross called up to step in. ERA at 5.50 last season but a bit better WHIP at 1.50.

[ricoFlame]

Tuesday night game in early April is never going to be a huge draw. winning will bring more fans out, but they'll likely never sell out that type of game.

[habernac]

What's up with Bautista? Why 3 games off? Any inside news?

[flambers]

What's up with Bautista? Why 3 games off? Any inside news?

Family issue is all the Jays have mentioned.

[JayP]

What's up with Bautista? Why 3 games off? Any inside news?

He had a daughter born back home in the Dominican Republic.

[puckluck]

Jesus, Encarnacion with another botched catch. He is a major weak spot on defence.

[Hockey]

Adam Lind is off to a good start so far this season. Escobar is having a good game as well tonight.

[puckluck]

3 run homer for Snider. 4-2 Jays top 5th.

[Caged Great]

Nice HR Snider 4-2 Jays

[Machiavelli]

Snider has such power....good job.

Rivera on the other hand - wow, I'm already done with him.

[koop]

Well, the term moneyball doesn't really mean much anymore, but at the time of the book advanced stats and sabermetrics didn't really put much value into defense. Now, as defensive stats are becoming better and better, it's a completely different story.

Moneyball was about finding value in the market for baseball players.... so it wasn't that defense wasn't important, just that it was overvalued (at the time at least). Same with OBP or closers, moneyball talked about both and it wasn't that the A's thought closers weren't important and OBP was all that mattered, it was just that closers were overvalued and OBP was undervalued. I think a lot of people misunderstand that book, it's really just about finding value to gain a competitive advantage, and that means just as much now as it ever did. It's just harder to do now that every team uses advanced statistics.

[puckluck]

Wow according to the stats both teams have no errors. Yeah, I call BS on that. Encarnacion dropped a pretty routine foul ball, and one of the Oakland outfielders lost a ball in the lights.

[puckluck]

Snider has such power....good job.

Rivera on the other hand - wow, I'm already done with him.

Rivera is very frustrating to watch. Seems like the Bouwmeester of the Bluejays. Doesn't seem like he cares or wants to be there.

[Gozer]

Rivera is very frustrating to watch. Seems like the Bouwmeester of the Bluejays. Doesn't seem like he cares or wants to be there.

Disliked by fans that rationalize impossible to refute flaws?

[Hockey]

Wow according to the stats both teams have no errors. Yeah, I call BS on that. Encarnacion dropped a pretty routine foul ball, and one of the Oakland outfielders lost a ball in the lights.


Are you talking about the foul ball in the 1st inning? Cuz E5 had to make a big break for the ball and was going full speed when the ball just popped out the end of his glove.


If you are talking about something else then I apologize.

[ricoFlame]

Wow according to the stats both teams have no errors. Yeah, I call BS on that. Encarnacion dropped a pretty routine foul ball, and one of the Oakland outfielders lost a ball in the lights.

LOL, losing a ball in the lights isn't an error, especially if the fielder doesn't touch the ball.

[JayP]

Moneyball was about finding value in the market for baseball players.... so it wasn't that defense wasn't important, just that it was overvalued (at the time at least). Same with OBP or closers, moneyball talked about both and it wasn't that the A's thought closers weren't important and OBP was all that mattered, it was just that closers were overvalued and OBP was undervalued. I think a lot of people misunderstand that book, it's really just about finding value to gain a competitive advantage, and that means just as much now as it ever did. It's just harder to do now that every team uses advanced statistics.

Yeah I know all that - I've just made one too many of those "moneyball isn't about OBP, it's about market inefficiency posts" in the past to do it again. :D

I would agree that defense was over-valued by other teams, but at the time the sabermetrics community pretty much agreed that defense played a much, much less significant role than hitting or pitching. I guess that's sort of saying the same thing, but it is important as if Billy Beane had the sort of defensive metrics we have now, he likely wouldn't have perceived a market inefficiency in those big bats with poor gloves type of player.

[puckluck]

LOL, losing a ball in the lights isn't an error, especially if the fielder doesn't touch the ball.

Thanks, I didn't know that.

[Sylvanfan]

Hopefully Escobar was only shaken up on that one play where he had to leave the game, he's been pretty good with the stick to start the season.

[Machiavelli]

^ From the post-game conference, they said that he'd been taken for some precautionary tests to rule out concussion symptoms, etc. He'll also be re-examined tomorrow.

[Gozer]

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/location.php-pitchSel=457456&game=gid_2011_04_05_oakmlb_tormlb_1&batterX=&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=.gif

Jo Jo's pitch graph from Brooks baseball.

Summary: only spot he hit consistently was down the pipe; mostly fastballs.

I didn't see him pitch, but if that graph is representative of his season then it won't be in the bigs.

[Lil Pedro]

Hope Escobar is alright, looking at him in the field after he suffered that blow to head worried me. Smart move by Farrell and the staff to take him out for precautionary reasons. Loved his effort in making a double into a triple

[secol]

i also thought reyes threw way too many fastballs. if the scouting report was right and he has 5 solid pitches, use them?

[Lil Pedro]

Afternoon tilt, hoping for a sweep. Romero on the hill today.
Escobar out but after reading a TSN article he's not suffering any headaches but rather has a sore neck. Encouraging news

[North East Goon]

I like Romero, reminds me of Jimmy Key!

[Pagal4321]

Escobar diagnosed with a mild concussion but not going on the 7 day DL, should be back early next week.

[Lil Pedro]

Jason Frasor is useless

[habernac]

at least the Boston Red Yankees are 0-6.

[Roof-Daddy]

Jason Frasor is useless

Came in with one out and a runner on third to get a strike out.

Did his job.

Arencibia let the strike out pitch get by him, which not only led to the tying run scoring, but also allowed Crisp to get aboard. Tough play for sure, but he can't let that ball get by him.

To make matters worse, he bobbled the ball on Crisp's steal of second.

[Caged Great]

Here's a bit of good news. Only two teams in all of MLB history have made the playoffs starting 0-4 or worse. The Rays are 0-5, and the Red Sox are 0-6.

Teams pretty much can only lose 65 games through the course of the season, so those two are getting quite a bit behind the 8 ball. Hopefully they continue to lose a bunch of games the rest of the month because that'll mean that they will have to basically be perfect the rest of the way.

[Flickered Flame]

It amazing how good pitching can be when the team behind them doesn't commit errors. Great pitching today, the A's were just a little better today.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

I'm not a big fan of Frasor either. I'd like to see what Francisco can do when he gets healthy. Hopefully he can do better than Frasor.

[Caged Great]

Janssen got sent down to AAA because Dotel is healthy.

[dustyanddaflames]

Came in with one out and a runner on third to get a strike out.

Did his job.

Arencibia let the strike out pitch get by him, which not only led to the tying run scoring, but also allowed Crisp to get aboard. Tough play for sure, but he can't let that ball get by him.

To make matters worse, he bobbled the ball on Crisp's steal of second.
Bang on, Arencibia has to get that ball infront of him. Frasor did his job.

[habernac]

Bang on, Arencibia has to get that ball infront of him. Frasor did his job.

I admittedly didn't see the play, but wasn't it ruled as a wild pitch?

[Sylvanfan]

This Bourjos for Anaheim is rediculous. I don't think anything falls in that part of the field when he's out there. I'll have to check out his UZR rating on fangraphs, he has to have way above average range.

[Sylvanfan]

And Adam Lind finally manages to slice one that he can't get to score 2 runs to tie the game up.

[Machiavelli]

Rivera....GTFO.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Double play ball and he goes into second..............standing up????

I couldn't believe I just watched that. I know it's early, but Rivera is complete garbage right now. Not bringing anything to the table.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Dotel looks very impressive in his first inning of work.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Nix HR, Jays up 3-2 in the 8th. Santana still pitching.

[Hockey]

Here comes the bullpen to blow another lead.

[Hockey]

Big double play.

[Machiavelli]

Nice to see Abreu gets a strike zone the size of a jewelry box.

[flames_1987]

Here comes the bullpen to blow another lead.

Well that couldn't be further from the truth. The only blown lead was yesterdays game, which was JP simply been able to get down and block a ball on Fraser's strikeout.

[flames_1987]

Nix with a huge hit. Dotel looked good again and Drabek had another strong outing. Escobar maybe back sunday, Jays have been in every game so far and seem to find ways to stick around. Cecil on the hill tomorrow

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Never knew a thing about Nix before this season, but he looks like a super solid addition. Solid defensively, contributing offensively..........can't ask for much more. Nice signing.

And loved Dotel's outing. 3 hitters, 3 outs, 2 by KO. 10 pitches, all strikes. Fun to watch.

[Matty81]

Nice win tonight, lots to like about the jays so far this year. I really wish encarnacion would get benched for a few in favour of Nix right now, just for d alone even if he wasn't a better hitter so far this year although i know edwin will go on a tear and hit some bombs at some point.

Also, totally agree with the guy ripping rivera, what a dog that guy is so far. Hitting about 100 and is the laziest guy out there every night, just no effort at all. Unfortunately there aren't any other real DH options until maybe Shealy gets healthy.

[Caged Great]

Awesome performance by the Jays, and what a good game by Drabek. His stuff was crap, and he still only gave up 2 runs. If they get efforts like this all season, they'll win a lot more often than not.

Ps. Thank you Wells for being terrible. At least you're not wearing a Jays jersey anymore.

[Beerfest]

Yay Blue Jays!

[flames_fan_down_under]

I know it's probably just the usual sports platitudes but I like what Nix said after the game...

"I'm really happy to be a part of this group," said Nix, who joined the Blue Jays in a trade with Cleveland just 10 days ago. "We've got a good thing going on here, and everybody is in it together."

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=361492

That's just the kind of mentality that I see the Jays approaching every game with.

So far I really like what I see.

[Saint Troy]

Impressive job by Drabek last night considering what had to be one of the worst home plate umpiring games I have seen, Davison was the definition of inconsistent. Hopefully Farrell goes with Nix for a while at third, his defence was excellent again to go along with the home run. Rivera is a cadaver out there, zero emotion or hustle, hopefully this is just him pressing trying to impress a new club and he snaps out of it.

[tanguay'sstillgood]

Impressive job by Drabek last night considering what had to be one of the worst home plate umpiring games I have seen, Davison was the definition of inconsistent. Hopefully Farrell goes with Nix for a while at third, his defence was excellent again to go along with the home run. Rivera is a cadaver out there, zero emotion or hustle, hopefully this is just him pressing trying to impress a new club and he snaps out of it.

I agree with you, but that part I bolded...that would be a weird way to impress a team.

It's funny, I had talked to a few friends last week before I ever came into this thread and we had all independently formed the same hatred for Rivera. Seriously, not trying to break up that double play last night looked like a fat old man playing coed slowpitch on a Sunday afternoon. This guy is brutal. Release him any time, use McCoy to fill outfield spots for the time being, and let E5 DH while Nix plays 3B.

[secol]

nix is going to fall down to earth. no way a career .216 hits on the positive side of .250 for the rest of the year.

[malcolmk14]

nix is going to fall down to earth. no way a career .216 hits on the positive side of .250 for the rest of the year.

Just like there's no way a guy whose career high in HR's is 15 hits 54.

[Matty81]

nix is going to fall down to earth. no way a career .216 hits on the positive side of .250 for the rest of the year.

Probably right - although he seems to be a defensive improvement so far and I find that the church of sabremetrics is deeply flawed, you only need to look at Bautista last year to know that. Totally doesn't account for growth and improvement beyond a certain age.

I'm cautiously optimistic about Nix being able to hit right around .245-.255 this year. His batting average his last 4 years in triple A;
.251
.292
.303
.450 (only 20 ABs)

If you remove the blip in Chicago at the end of the year last season here are his 3 major league seasons;
.125
.224
.234

He seems to be learning and improving year over year.

[Saint Troy]

[QUOTE=tanguay'sstillgood;3065699]I agree with you, but that part I bolded...that would be a weird way to impress a team.

Pressing, not impressing....

I think he has some upside, especially against lefties, but his lack of hustle is crap.

[Saint Troy]

nix is going to fall down to earth. no way a career .216 hits on the positive side of .250 for the rest of the year.

You are likely right, but he does have an excellent compact swing as Buck and Pat said about 400 times last night, and he can play defence.

[Caged Great]

His defense also has merit into winning games, especially when you factor in EE is a huge liability at the position that Nix plays. If you get nearly equivalent production offensively from Nix as you would either EE or Rivera, then it makes sense to have EE or Rivera as the DH and the other on the bench instead just for the defensive improvement alone.

[flambers]

His defense also has merit into winning games, especially when you factor in EE is a huge liability at the position that Nix plays. If you get nearly equivalent production offensively from Nix as you would either EE or Rivera, then it makes sense to have EE or Rivera as the DH and the other on the bench instead just for the defensive improvement alone.


yep, biggest problem with E5 is this fellow can not throw...

[Hockey]

Runners on 2nd and 3rd with no one out in the 11th. Vernon Wells strikes out, they walk the next batter. Get an out at home on a fielders choice. Bases loaded 2 outs.

Oh and it all started with a throwing error by E5

[Sylvanfan]

Dotel get's the K and the Jays survive the 11th. Angels are down to their last reliever in the game too. The games between these two teams in Anaheim are always close.

[Hockey]

Bautista up with bases loaded in the top of the 12th

[Sylvanfan]

16 stranded runners for the Jays tonight. Neither team can get a clutch hit here.

[flames_1987]

Bulger has to be gassed throwing over 60 pitches or so now....why in gods name can we not get a hit with RISP?!?

[Hockey]

Wow horrible call on Escobar. No way he interfered with the 3rd basemen.

[Caged Great]

wtf

[Caged Great]

That might be the worst call I've seen in years.

[Hockey]

That might be the worst call I've seen in years.



yep, about as worse as it comes.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Possibly the worst call in baseball history. No idea what the heck he was thinking.

He ran from 2nd to 3rd.................what did he do wrong? That was 100% on the 3B. Beyond stupid.

[secol]

####ing robbed....also damn encarncion could've cost us

[flames_1987]

I switched the channel and just had game center up but judging by the comments here and on DJF, that was just as brutal a call as you can get.

[Hockey]

This game has it all.

[secol]

Just like there's no way a guy whose career high in HR's is 15 hits 54.
yep. all about statistics man, i know which side i'm betting on and based on statistics i'll probably be right.

[Caged Great]

Escobar ran straight from 2nd to 3rd and got called out for interfering when he didn't touch anyone.

[secol]

wow fricking bizarre plays

[Caged Great]

This is the most f'ed up game I seen in a long time.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Wow, this game has it all. What action.

[Hockey]

I really hope the Jays can win this here.

Dan Haren now pitching.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Escobar ran straight from 2nd to 3rd and got called out for interfering when he didn't touch anyone.

Didn't jump over or near the ball, wasn't near anyone............nothing. The 3B stopped, looked around like he was freaked out a bit, then threw wide to 1B.

I'd absolutely love to hear the ump's take on that play. Beyond bizzare.

[ricoFlame]

This is the single weirdest game i've seen. Bizarre.

[ricoFlame]

...and Haren comes in and shoves it.

[Caged Great]

That ump lost the jays the game.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

And the Angels win.

Too bad the Jays won, but it was disallowed. What a crock.

[frinkprof]

It ended up being an exciting game to watch after the first 4 or so innings. Too bad that Snider's misadventure in left field led to the run. Not necessarily a swipe on Snider.

[Matty81]

Man the jays got screwed tonight, weird mystery call there at 3rd

[Saint Troy]

Bob Davidson should not have a job, he was a disaster behind the plate for the first game and then blew two obvious calls, one deciding a game. That said, hopefully the Jays got all of the choking out of their system in one game, they were pathetic with runners in scoring position.

[Flickered Flame]

It was a brutal call no question about it but the Jays went 3-23 with RISP, that is why they lost the game. They had plenty of opportunities to knock in some runs and couldn't. Now hopefully they picks themselves back up and knock of the Angels today.

[ricoFlame]

It was a brutal call no question about it but the Jays went 3-23 with RISP, that is why they lost the game. They had plenty of opportunities to knock in some runs and couldn't. Now hopefully they picks themselves back up and knock of the Angels today.

Agreed, you have to do better cashing guys in...especially with that many opportunities, but it's tough when you finally push someone across and an amazingly bad call reverses the run. I hate that something like that can still happen in big league baseball.

[JayP]

It was a brutal call no question about it but the Jays went 3-23 with RISP, that is why they lost the game. They had plenty of opportunities to knock in some runs and couldn't. Now hopefully they picks themselves back up and knock of the Angels today.

I never understood this logic. The fact is the umps took a run off the board that would've won them the game. Yeah, the Jays had chances to win, but so did the Angels. Some games you just don't knock in those runs when they're in scoring position (that's more because RISP stats are useless due to small sample size and teams/players don't show any talent to hit with RISP from a year-to-year basis, but that's for another thread). That's baseball.

Sure, the players will throw out the cliches about how they had plenty of chances to win it, but in the locker room they are all livid about how they got hosed.

[nik-]

Yeesh. What are you gonna do on a day like today. :(

[Flickered Flame]

Davis placed on DL with the ankle injury.

[Sylvanfan]

It just gets easier for the Jays going from Weaver to Felix Hernandez.

[Sylvanfan]

I think a lot of MLB teams could put their top 3 farm system pitchers against the Mariners and still win most series. They'd be in tough to put up 7 runs most nights against the Calgary Vipers with how bad their offence is.

[Machiavelli]

Litsch definitely battled today. Also, the Mariners blow.

[ricoFlame]

beating King Felix around a bit here. good stuff.

[Gozer]

Nix with a wonderful basket catch, showing great range reaching the ball in foul LF - and appeared to be past the convergence point of the three defenders.

I've hardly seen the guy, but Nix reminds me of Scutaro in a lot of ways. Passed his minor-league service time as a reliable but unsettled player that spent a lot of time learning (even by baseball standards).
Great versatility, surprising offense (so far), and a refined/polished approach.
Hopefully he's as good. Think of the wordplay!

[flames_1987]

Patchwork lineup coming through huge against King Felix tonight with Nix and Patterson combining to go 5 for 7 with 1 Hr and 3 RBI's.

[Caged Great]

Purcey kind of sucked, and Dotel walked in a run.

[Caged Great]

Now it looks like he'll walk in another

[Caged Great]

Well, good to see we're having a good bullpen tonight. Hopefully scrabble can do better.

[Caged Great]

And another walk.

[Caged Great]

I'm beginning to wonder if the pitchers understand that you have to throw the ball over the strike zone in order not to walk players

[Caged Great]

7-6 now. Brilliant.

[Caged Great]

Nice DP

Camp comes in and shuts the door.

7 posts in a row, a record.

[Caged Great]

up 7-0 and lose. Good game by the pen there.

[KelVarnsen]

Good job bullpen...

[Lil Pedro]

Absolute pathetic performance by the bullpen tonight

[Wise Gamble]

LOL I LOVE IT. Blue Jays suck.

[Gozer]

Rough night. Bully just couldn't hit the corners to start at-bats, but to their credit they didn't serve up meatballs.

The philosophy of the team seems a little to passive - walking Ichiro and pitching around a lousy line-up is not the attitude I'm hoping for from Farrell.

[Trojan97]

Those ####hackers in the Mariners lineup shouldn't score 8 runs in a series let alone a single game. Farrell and Dotel wear the horns tonight.

[Matty81]

Man the Mariners look awful again this year, and the jays looked even worse tonight. This road trip is sucking hardcore - between tonight and the Davidson call that cost them the Angels game they should be 7-3.

The pitching was all around bad - Litsch was actually lucky not to get hit for a fair few runs early on, he dug himself a hole almost every inning it felt like and the pen was so bad especially Purcey.

[Machiavelli]

What the hell? I went to bed with the Jays having a 7-0 lead, thinking they were more than safe. Imagine my dismay when I wake up and open TSN.

Blah....it's the freaking Mariners!!

[puckluck]

Lol wow wtf happened? Wasn't it 7-1 in the top 8th? That's when I stopped watching and actually thought they had won the game until reading this thread.

[Saint Troy]

What the hell? I went to bed with the Jays having a 7-0 lead, thinking they were more than safe. Imagine my dismay when I wake up and open TSN.

Blah....it's the freaking Mariners!!

Me too, ridiculous loss, and WTF was Farrell thinking walking Ichiro representing the winning run? Oh well, hopefully early season growing pains, but pretty ugly game to lose.

[Parallex]

Lol wow wtf happened? Wasn't it 7-1 in the top 8th? That's when I stopped watching and actually thought they had won the game until reading this thread.

I'm missing something but my recollection goes...

Purcey gave up a walk and two singles to load, Then Dotel walked in two runs, then Rzep walked in a run he got a groundball but it squeeked between Escobar and third bringing in another run, then Camp pitched a DP ball and they got out of the inning ahead by a run. 9th inning Camp stays in gives up a Double, sac bunt moves the runner to third and brings Ichiro to the plate, they give Ichiro the intentional base on balls and he then steals second. Next batter doubles to the gap bringing in the winning run.

Me too, ridiculous loss, and WTF was Farrell thinking walking Ichiro representing the winning run?


He was thinking that with the tying run at third it might be better to take the bat out of the hands of the best hitter in baseball? I mean... it's friggin' Ichiro. Probably should have used Rauch in the 9th thou, Camp is a really good at getting a timely groundball (seriously, can anyone else order up a Double Play like that guy?) but he's being overused and doesn't have overpowering stuff to begin with. Ya I know Rauch was the only one left in the bullpen meaning that they'd have to get a starter to come in on relief if the game ended up in extra's but that doesn't strike me as all that bad.

Also, when Fransisco is all rehabbed up and ready to go I hope they DFA Purcey... that guys been awful. Nix has been a pleasant surprise thus far thou.

[Machiavelli]

Well, Romero is being out-pitched by Pineda tonight (so far).

I hope the marathon loss to the Angels wasn't the start of something bad.

[Parallex]

Well, Romero is being out-pitched by Pineda tonight (so far).

In all fairness to Romero Pineda's just been filthy out their tonight.

[Flickered Flame]

The Jays designated Purcey earlier today, AA doesn't want to lose him for nothing so he expects to trade him. Looks like the Astros are interested.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/04/blue-jays-expect-to-trade-david-purcey.html

[Erick Estrada]

The West Coast has never been kind to the Jays. Maybe a good idea to start the season and get one of these trips out of the way early.

[The Big Chill]

Well our bats finally came alive and we put up a win. At least we salvaged something out of that series.

[CaramonLS]

I can't believe Purcey is 28 already... It seems like just yesterday we were talking about that 95MPH, Left handed, Fireballer we just drafted.

Sad that it just couldn't pan out. Decent tools, no tool box.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Went to the game today. Safeco is a beautiful park. Lots of Jays fans, including a large group wearing Canucks jerseys throwing middle fingers to the crowd and throwing stuff onto the field, really surprising behaviour.....

[expo2428]

I went to see a Red Sox game at Safeco. I really liked the stadium a lot better then the Metrodome that's for sure.

[ricoFlame]

I went to see a Red Sox game at Safeco. I really liked the stadium a lot better then the Metrodome that's for sure.


Kingdome.