Canada to Patrol Arctic Ocean to Press Claim of Sovereignty

[jolinar of malkshor]

Long over due in my opinion. We cant get these ships to the north fast enough. Good job Harper.....

Canada will buy at least six patrol ships to assert its sovereignty claim in the Arctic,

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/10/wo.../10canada.html

[worth]

I don't really support this government, but I do support this proposal. Need to man up and stop being pushed around by other countries. Protect the soverignty of this country.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by worth

I don't really support this government, but I do support this proposal. Need to man up and stop being pushed around by other countries. Protect the soverignty of this country.

I completely agree with you. While I don't like this government much, this proposal is something that is defintiely needed. I hope it all goes according to plan.

[Bobblehead]

While I support this....wow, Arctic patrol will probably be boring!!!

I read Pierre Berton's book about trying to get through the northwest passage, and after scurvy, boredom was a huge issue.

[ken0042]

Yes, but back then they didn't have internet porn.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Yes, but back then they didn't have internet porn.

A whole new spin on "clubbing the seal"

[calf]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

A whole new spin on "clubbing the seal"

[CaptainCrunch]

I'd like to see the specs on these ships.

Artic patrol is incredibly difficult because of the obvious temperature factors. the accoustic template of the water goes against proper sub hunting, its tough to pick them up with the ambient noise factors(ice moving, deep thremal level). I doubt that these ships will be helicopter able which will handicap them some more.

The logical solution is to put in of net a sonar bouy's. Stage some CP-140 for dedicated sub hunting, equip these patrol boats with long range standoff weapons like harpoon antiship missiles, and drop the Victoria class submarines which are problematic at best and purchase a couple of German U-212 attack submarines which could work in the artic because they use an air independant propulsion system.

[worth]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'd like to see the specs on these ships.

Artic patrol is incredibly difficult because of the obvious temperature factors. the accoustic template of the water goes against proper sub hunting, its tough to pick them up with the ambient noise factors(ice moving, deep thremal level). I doubt that these ships will be helicopter able which will handicap them some more.

in the cbc article i read yesterday it said they were supposed to be helicopter equipped.

[SeeGeeWhy]

"The logical solution is to put in of net a sonar bouy's. Stage some CP-140 for dedicated sub hunting, equip these patrol boats with long range standoff weapons like harpoon antiship missiles, and drop the Victoria class submarines which are problematic at best and purchase a couple of German U-212 attack submarines which could work in the artic because they use an air independant propulsion system."

That is a great idea!

The sad thing is that Canada, as a resource rich country, really depends on weak foreign diplomacy and the United States military to protect us.

What happens when the US wants to invade, or is no longer interested in, or able to, protect us? Stranger things have happened. I don't think this country is well positioned enough to protect ourselves from a foreign threat should it ever arise.

[ken0042]

In reading the article, it says these ships will be able to break through 3 feet of ice, but are short of being a heavy duty ice breaker. Anybody know how thick of ice a heavy duty one can break through? Because to me 3 feet seems like a pretty thick chunk of ice.

[arsenal]

So are they going to be new ships? Or are they going to 1960 refurbished ships that will catch on fire?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by worth

in the cbc article i read yesterday it said they were supposed to be helicopter equipped.

Which is great, when the new helicpters come on line, but I think it would be a bad idea to use the sea kings in the arctic.

[worth]

hah, yeah i agree.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'd like to see the specs on these ships.

It has been speculated that the Norwegian Nordkapp class is being considered (similar to the new Svalbard), as well as the Danish Thetis class.

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/id-opv-frigate.htm

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/bg-icebreaker-svalbard.htm

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm ok with this design but it lacks the punch to standoff and do anything from an offensive point of view.

The 57 mm gun isn't terrific on a naval vessel. The only reason why its ok on the Halifax class frigates is they have long range standoff capabilities (antiship missiles and rocket assisted torpedos (ASROCs)

This vessel has one main gun mount, and one non nato specific anti aircraft missile system, which means that if anything does happen its in a defensive capable mode only.

Now I know that nothing is likely to happen, but if your going to project strength, then project strength and add firepower.

This is also a poor ship to choose as the main threat in the artic is from submarines.

The Russian Novik class coastal defense vessel more then fulfils the type of mission that the Canadian Government is looking for, but it would need a sturdier hull for ice breaking duties.

[jolinar of malkshor]

I dont think these ships are really ment as a defensive or offensive weapon. They are simply there to show the rest of the world that this is our land and we are occupying it.

[MarchHare]

The sad thing is that Canada, as a resource rich country, really depends on weak foreign diplomacy and the United States military to protect us.

What happens when the US wants to invade, or is no longer interested in, or able to, protect us?

Protect us from whom, exactly? Other than the United States, whose military power we could never hope to match, name a single country that has the capability to launch a trans-oceanic invasion of Canada.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I dont think these ships are really ment as a defensive or offensive weapon. They are simply there to show the rest of the world that this is our land and we are occupying it.

I've never liked the trip line strategy to be honest. Putting a ship up there to waive the flag, sound the alarm, die gloriously.

If your going to patrol at least be able to punch someone in the nose on the way out.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Protect us from whom, exactly? Other than the United States, whose military power we could never hope to match, name a single country that has the capability to launch a trans-oceanic invasion of Canada.

Russia, China.

Invasion certainly isn't the issue so much as protecting the resources in the area. It's business you have to be worried about moreso than military might...

And if we don't have Canadian owned businesses operating up there, we at least need a military presence to be able to enforce a claim on the land so that we can enforce taxation of foreign interests operating in the area.

If the resources are big enough (which some claims are stating that the oil reserves off some parts of the Arctic shelf could be twice the size of Saudi Arabia's assets), you want to be damn sure you are getting you piece of the pie, or can protect it - or else you're going to get screwed.