May 2015 Provincial Election Thread v2

[Looch City]

NDP at it again...tryin' a change our way of life.

Thousands sign petition against Alberta NDP's farm safety bill

If Bill 6 is passed into law, Alberta farm and ranch workers would no longer be excluded from Occupational Health and Safety protection — a right already held by agricultural employees in every other province in Canada.

The Increased Protection for Farm and Ranch Workers Act would also force the agricultural sector to provide minimum wage, vacation pay and Worker Compensation Board coverage.

"They do everything they can to make sure their children are safe, their employees are safe. Accidents happen, you know, like that's just part of life," Battle told the Calgary Eyeopener on Thursday morning.

In an email, Debby Devlin, a former Occupational Health and Safety Advisor for Alberta Health Services, said she was 'disgusted' by Battle's interview on CBC Radio Calgary.

"Her whining reminded me of that Gone With The Wind kind of pining for slavery. As in, how will we ever keep our wonderful way of life if we have to care about someone else?" said Devlin.

DG: People who run family restaurants, coffee shops. They're all regulated by the province. Why not farms and ranches? Why should there be a different set of rules?

SB: I guess, because farming is really the only industry left that, we're still free to do what we want. And by the government legislating this it is going to take that freedom away. We're the people that feed the province. So, you know, we should actually be able to say what we want.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...fety-1.3338226

They fit the stereotype so perfectly, you'd think it's an Onion article haha.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

NDP at it again...tryin' a change our way of life.

Thousands sign petition against Alberta NDP's farm safety bill


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...fety-1.3338226

They fit the stereotype so perfectly, you'd think it's an Onion article haha.

Have they ever met a farmer? Or spent time on a farm? Why is this a battle that they're fighting?

[polak]

Poor farmers won't be able to use their kids as undocumented slave labor any more? Is that what they're getting at here?

[darklord700]

Great, with Bill 6, NDP gave up votes in rural Alberta. They only need to PO more Calgarians and our ordeal will be over in 3 and 1/2 years.

[polak]

Replaced with another ordeal.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Great, with Bill 6, NDP gave up votes in rural Alberta. They only need to PO more Calgarians and our ordeal will be over in 3 and 1/2 years.

This oughtta do it...

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/alberta-ci...100000879.html

[polak]

Every province is working on similar carbon tax legislation fyi. The only difference is who they target. With all the bitching about hurting the patch that comes from the anti-ndp crowd, they should be thrilled that they want after the end consumer.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Great, with Bill 6, NDP gave up votes in rural Alberta. They only need to PO more Calgarians and our ordeal will be over in 3 and 1/2 years.

And who exactly would come in to save Alberta?

[Frequitude]

Interesting move. On one hand it would seem the right thing to do. On the other hand its political suicide. You don't want rural Alberta opposing you. Just ask Jim Dinning and Ted Morton.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by polak

Every province is working on similar carbon tax legislation fyi. The only difference is who they target. With all the bitching about hurting the patch that comes from the anti-ndp crowd, they should be thrilled that they want after the end consumer.

so instead in a province with rampant unemployment and peoples UI running out we're going to take the opportunity to jack up their cost of living.

Yup, that's awesome.

It doesn't matter much, if you pass the tax onto the patch or onto business, they're going to turn around and dump it onto the consumer anyways.

But reading that article, beyond gas and utilities pricing going up for the average person. transit costs will probably increase, as will the costs of public use facility, probably tuitions will have to rise as well. Food prices that have to be transported will increase, property taxes will increase to off set this, and probably rents will go up, especially for buildings that pay utilities

That tax rebate better be significant for the lower and middle classes, or they're going to see their costs of living jump significantly.

[polak]

So whats your play? Just leave it be?

[CaptainCrunch]

At the moment, I think there needs to be way more sober thought on this and how widespread its effects are. They're rushing this through so they can basically show off to the UN. To me that's the wrong reason.

to me there is a term that a carbon tax out of all the environmental tax schemes is the fairest, but frankly to me, it has more of a hardened effect on the poor and middle class.

and why tax instead of finding a way to positively incentivize.

And why do a carbon tax that's basically going to vanish into the government coffers instead of actually having a definable plan about how your going to develop clean energy, or how your going to incentivize people to buy cleaner cars, or wear a sweater or whatever.

Don't just sit there and say, oh yeah, we'll come up with green energy jobs? Well what are those energy jobs, what are your plans, don't sit there and say, we're going to ram this through and think about the back half later.

Just so you can strut around at a conference and pound your keyboard and say, look I'm doing stuff.

What's the tax rebate going to be to the poor and people who are going to get hit with this, how big is it how does it work. Are they going to cut a check for a couple of hundred bucks to a family that's going to probably end up spending a thousand bucks or more a year due to a cost of living expense increase? How does that work?

Make a plan on both sides of it the income and the spending, present it and sell it.

[Fuzz]

Yup, got the taking money part figured out....now for the rest.

[polak]

I believe BC's carbon tax goes into tax reductions and Ontario's plan is to put it in a separate fund. I might be wrong though.

It was outlined in a Canadian Fuels Association presentation they had at our work but that was a few months ago.

[PsYcNeT]

Uh you guys realize Bill 6 was enacted in 2014 by the PCs, with the caveat that the exemption for farmers would be removed in 2016 regardless?

You know how many injuries happen on farms outside of the reach of OHSA? This has been a long time coming.

It made 0 sense that say, a fuel truck could fill up equipment on a lease site and covered by OHSA, but if he filled up a tank on the farm on the same quarter (or LSD even), and there was an accident, there is no investigation? That #### is bonkers, and I defy anyone to tell me why an employer like a farmer shouldn't be covered under OHSA.

[jammies]

Pfff, never mind you and your facts - we want the right to be able to mutilate workers if that saves a few bucks! If you aren't free to do evil, are you really free?

[CaptainCrunch]

But what's Alberta's plan. Anything Ontario has been pretty poorly run, so I wouldn't want to follow their model.

Its great to reduce taxes, but suddenly its not about reducing carbon or pollution. Its about grabbing a chunk of cash and giving a smaller portion of it back. its the inverse social credit model of for every dollar you give to the government you get 2 back.

In this case its for every 2 dollars you give to the government we'll give you a quarter back, except we don't know what that plan is.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by jammies

Pfff, never mind you and your facts - we want the right to be able to mutilate workers if that saves a few bucks! If you aren't free to do evil, are you really free?

No it's a way better idea that full-time farm workers with long term injuries put weight on EI (if they even qualify) rather than through the WCB...

...if you're an idiot and/or a farmer.

[Kerplunk]

Increased farm safety is a good thing, but I'm sure many family farms already do their best to keep the kids safe. This bill seems to open up a lot of questions, with seemingly very little consultation with the actual farm community.

Do the work day/week hours now apply to the family? Are children now considered employees? If multiple families use the same equipment/help on different farms, are they all considered employees of the farm they are on and now need separate WCB insurance? If they already have liability and accident insurance, why do they need to get WCB as well? Does it stop the teaching of children how to do things on the farm until a certain age?

There is a lot of the "we'll figure it out as we go" type language in the official FAQs for this stuff, but there isn't a lot of consultation time set aside for it before the initial rules hit. Seems to me they are ramming this through just because they can.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Kerplunk

Increased farm safety is a good thing, but I'm sure many family farms already do their best to keep the kids safe. This bill seems to open up a lot of questions, with seemingly very little consultation with the actual farm community.

Do the work day/week hours now apply to the family? Are children now considered employees? If multiple families use the same equipment/help on different farms, are they all considered employees of the farm they are on and now need separate WCB insurance? If they already have liability and accident insurance, why do they need to get WCB as well? Does it stop the teaching of children how to do things on the farm until a certain age?

There is a lot of the "we'll figure it out as we go" type language in the official FAQs for this stuff, but there isn't a lot of consultation time set aside for it before the initial rules hit. Seems to me they are ramming this through just because they can.

Uh, the farming community had two years to address all of those concerns. If they didn't, that's kind of on them, not OHSA.

But hey if you're cool that taxpayers pay for injured employees rather than their employer, then more power to you. No oversight into a notoriously dangerous and lax industry? Whatever man! Safety is for squares.