Reto Berra vs. Karri Ramo

[tvp2003]

It's been discussed off and on the GDT's and PGT's -- thought it deserved its own thread...

Since Berra was called up, he's started 9 of the last 10 games (with the lone Ramo start coming in the second game of a back-to-back). Since the start of the season, Hartley has always talked about going with the guy he felt best with. Not necessarily a meritocracy, but moreso a gut feel. It's clear Hartley's gut is in the Berra camp at the moment.

What does this do for Ramo, who (i) was pretty average in the games he's played thus far, (ii) has only played in two games this month (one start and one relief appearance), and (iii) is signed on until the end of 2014/15 to a fairly sizeable contract.

On the other hand, has Berra shown enough to warrant becoming the defacto #1? I think the potential is certainly there, and he hasn't buckled under the workload that Hartley has given him (a few softies notwithstanding).

Berra will almost certainly get the next start against Chicago, which means we won't see Ramo again until the LA/ANA back to back (a tough task for any goalie, let alone someone who hasn't played in 3 weeks). I'll admit that I haven't seen how they've been playing in practice, and it's way to early to accuse Hartley of giving up on Ramo, but this is clearly not the 1A/1B scenario that most were expecting (especially in a rebuilding year).

Thoughts?

[moon]

I don't think Ramo has played well enough that he can have any complaints about not playing but at the same time based on comments from Hartley at the start of the season it is odd that Berra keeps playing despite not getting wins (initially) and some pretty mediocre play himself.

I don't think either one has established themselves over the one and neither guy has shown the ability to be the number 1 or much to indicate that they will be that number 1 guy.

I would prefer to see them rotating more often than they are and see no reason there isn't basically a 50/50 split.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by moon

I don't think Ramo has played well enough that he can have any complaints about not playing but at the same time based on comments from Hartley at the start of the season it is odd that Berra keeps playing despite not getting wins (initially) and some pretty mediocre play himself.

I don't think either one has established themselves over the one and neither guy has shown the ability to be the number 1 or much to indicate that they will be that number 1 guy.

I would prefer to see them rotating more often than they are and see no reason there isn't basically a 50/50 split.

What? He has been much better than Ramo and better than mediocre.

[theoforever]

Yap, Berra so far has looked better than Ramo.

[moon]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

What? He has been much better than Ramo and better than mediocre.

He has a sub .900 sv percentage, terrible GAA and has let in a lot of bad goals.

He doesn't get a ton of help in front of him which hurts the GAA but defense didn;t have much to do with the Perron, Goc, Hayes goals from the last two games alone or the terrbile rebounds he kicks out more often than not. He has been very good in the shootout though which is nice to see.

He reminds me of a lot of back-up goalie and what I said earlier about MacDonald he makes a lot of highlight reel saves because he is out of position so much and needs to make a spectacular play to recover, but he seems to be out of his net way more than he should, struggles with rebounds and seems to let in some very weak goals. He isn't awful just has been mediocre and looks much more like a back-up level goalie than a starter.

It is possible he improves guys have before but he would need to make some big changes to his game to do so.

[djsFlames]

Reto has been the closest thing we've had to a starter goaltender, despite his inconsistencies at times. He's not quite there yet, but you can see the makings of an average NHL starter in him. At least, I do. He needs to work on not over committing to some shots especially with the game on the line, as well as keeping his pads on the ice when he's trying to get a glimpse of where a shot is coming from. A couple have squeaked under him because of that. Many starters may not see as many shots as him, but are in solid position with their pads down to make sure that puck hits them. I've noticed that he always seems so steady for 2 periods, but typically has 1 where he lets in a softie or two, or gets himself in trouble with odd plays (typically the 3rd, sometimes the 2nd). If he can get himself some 60 minute games of that steady, even keel netminding, I think we could see some starter quality games out of him. Then again, you can never be too critical of goaltenders when the team in front of them doesn't help defensively. We're improving, though, despite being without the captain back there.

I just haven't seen enough of Ramo to get an overall read on his level of play. But from his starts, he never quite stuck out to me as a goalie who had the tools/makings of someone who could run with the starting job. Seemed more inconsistent than Berra. The exception to that would be in LA, where I thought he was more or less solid. I hope he gets a string of at least 3 games (esp if the team starts to play well in front of our goalies or we can get Gio back in), so that we can really gauge this guy. Still somewhat of an unknown.

[memphusk]

I would like to see a win and your in situation. Once you lose, swap.

[btimbit]

I think now that they've played the same amount of games we'll start to see them alternate more often. I'd like to see them swap when they lose, based on performance, etc

[kehatch]

Who knows what Ramo can do. He has had 1 start in the last 10 games. Even Kipper didn't start 9 out of 10 games.

Berra is getting the starts despite a series of soft goals and bad performances.

Hartley likes Berra. He doesn't like Ramo. Ramo won't get the starts.

Personally I think that Berra is the better goalies. But I would like to see Ramo get some starts to give him a chance. It isn't like Berra is earning all of these starts.

[FlamingC]

Berra is on a one year contract. Flames only have this season to make a decision. You could say flames have to make a decision by the trade deadline if they wanted to flip him for anything. Ramo has another year on his contract. Just an evaluation process going on.

[moon]

Originally Posted by FlamingC

Berra is on a one year contract. Flames only have this season to make a decision. You could say flames have to make a decision by the trade deadline if they wanted to flip him for anything. Ramo has another year on his contract. Just an evaluation process going on.

Where are they going to flip him at the deadline and for what?

Unless their is a rash of injuries to goalies in the league can't see any play-off teams having interest in him as a back-up, especially since there are likely to be better options out there.

Can't see why a non-play-off team would want to add him if he hasn't played well enough that Calgary would want t re-sign him.

[N-E-B]

Berra's been much better, it's as simple as that. If Ramo plays lights out next start maybe he will get more starts, but Rano has yet to play like that, and Berra has given us a chance to win in a lot if games (see the most recent game against the Sharks).

[RyZ]

Neither of them have been great and they should be switching. Berras numbers are no better than Ramos and Ramo isnt getting a chance to play. There is no way either of these guys should be getting 9 starts in a 10 game stretch.

[saillias]

Send Ramo down to get some games in Abbotsford and bring up Ortio. Ramo is the only goalie in the org who has spent the entire year on the NHL roster - which frankly he hasn't really earned

[thymebalm]

I was going to start a thread about this last night.

I think Karri Ramo deserves some more starts, and here's my reason:
Even Strength Save Percentage.

SV% EV:
Joey: .884
Karri: .905
Reto: .891

SV% PP:
Joey: .870
Karri: .784
Reto: .865

Our penalty kill was disastrous to start the season. It's basically what sunk Ramo's save percentage. Since November, our PK has improved, and Ramo has yet to benefit from this recent improvement.

If you look at Even Strength goals against, you'll see Ramo stronger here too.
GA/EV:
Joey: 2.71
Karri: 2.13
Reto: 2.67

The sample sizes are still small. But Karri has looked by eye to be the best goalie we have at even strength. Berra really starts to run around in the 3rd period, Karri seems to be able to handle the pressure a little better. Just my eye-witness account and a little stats to back it up.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Berra's been much better, it's as simple as that. If Ramo plays lights out next start maybe he will get more starts, but Rano has yet to play like that, and Berra has given us a chance to win in a lot if games (see the most recent game against the Sharks).

He's been slightly better. Much better is a big stretch.

[Caged Great]

You also have to view potential. Both of them are playing in at about the same statistically. However, Berra has show flashes of upper end skill despite the soft and rather bad goals he's given up. Ramo hasn't really shown much if any upper end skill in the games he's played. He's just been okay.

I would rather they give Berra more chances to see if he can iron out those weak spots. He has the potential to be an average or better starter, where Ramo doesn't really have that upper end that Berra does. Worst case scenario is you toss both out and give Ortio a shot and follow that up with Gillies.

[Buff]

On one hand I feel like Hartley just doesn't like/trust Ramo. On the other hand, Ramo hasn't exactly shown that he deserves to play the bulk of the games. However, Berra has had a couple of games where I was sure Ramo would start the next game. It isn't like Berra has proven he is the #1 goalie, he just came in and Hartley seemed to have handed it to him on a silver platter. Before Berra was called up MacDonald was getting all the starts even though there was a few games where he stunk it up and didn't deserve to get the next start. Ramo seems to be on a tighter leash than the other goalies. We've heard in the past that Hartley has his favorites and it shows in how he handles the goalies.

[hixxes]

Berra has been mediocre at best. So was Ramo when he had his run. As was MacDonald. Based on game play none of the three deserve to be playing more than the other. Hartley must see something in Berra he likes.

[Tinordi]

They both suck only Berra has some potential.