What young players (25 and under) are expendable assets for the Flames?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I would think that of all the teams, Flames are the highest on Jankowski, considering they went off the board to draft him. Granted, that was previous management. I think the chances of him signing in Calgary are at least 90%.

And yet almost 90% of Flames UFAs and players with tight ties to the Flames opt to sign elsewhere:

Conroy, Iginla, Hamrlick, Aucion, Prust (turned down a bigger offer from the Flames), Cammalleri, Moss, Nystrom, Hannan, Stuart, Pardy, Higgins, Bertuzzi.... well you get the picture.... UFAs as a rule usually sign with a team other than the one that owns their rights and they should feel an obligation to.

The Leafs gave a lot bigger chance to Mason Raymond to give him a contract when no one else would. Does it make him a bad person to accept the Flames big contract offer?

Same as its a business theory that get player traded at the trade deadline for draft picks.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm with those that don't feel a need to rush into clearing space in the prospect cupboard, good teams just let it play out and keep the depth.

I don't mind however, a good hockey trade where two teams see value in prospects to exchange not because they are failing but because they have depth in different players. A guy like Granlund comes to mind. I like him. He has value, but he could be in tough on a team that has center depth, so a deal to a team that has too much blueline depth would make sense. Not a deal where you take what you can get, but one where you exchange a NHL ready prospect in the 22 year old range for another one.

Some of the prospects are getting to the make or break similar to Sven. So if they are not a fit then getting a pick would be nice.

Would Vancouver willing to trade a 3rd/4th for Reinhart as he likely could play in their bottom 6 next year and has shown the ability to play? Maybe he has zero value but the guy did have 62pts in 13-14 and looked to be on the cusp. Other just blew past him this year.

Honestly Jooris is where I thought Reinhart might have been this year

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

And yet almost 90% of Flames UFAs and players with tight ties to the Flames opt to sign elsewhere:

Conroy, Iginla, Hamrlick, Aucion, Prust (turned down a bigger offer from the Flames), Cammalleri, Moss, Nystrom, Hannan, Stuart, Pardy, Higgins, Bertuzzi.... well you get the picture.... UFAs as a rule usually sign with a team other than the one that owns their rights and they should feel an obligation to.

The Leafs gave a lot bigger chance to Mason Raymond to give him a contract when no one else would. Does it make him a bad person to accept the Flames big contract offer?

Same as its a business theory that get player traded at the trade deadline for draft picks.

With Jankowsk all offers will be the same. He can sign a max ELC but the Flames are the only team that can burn a year of his deal next season if he signs right when his year is over like Gaudreau and Arnold in 13-14.

Jankowsk was told by Treliving that the organization still views him highly. Gaudreau was not drafted by Burke but that did not stop him from coming to Calgary when BC lost in 2014.

He is going to be a senior at 21 years old the kid is still growing into his frame and developing. the flames still lack size and Jankowsk brings that to the table. Colborne is a great comparable to Jankowsk and he developed much better when he got to Calgary than either Toronto or Boston. There are a lot of reasons he will stick with this organization

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Raymond might also be next years Setoguchi.

Setoguchi isn't a comparable.

Raymond was signed after a decent year for a multi-year contract, same as Wideman. Raymond has just had a year of heavily criticized play for a higher salary -like Wideman prior to this season. Like Wideman, his actual stats over the criticized year aren't as bad as the criticism would indicate. Don't get me wrong - he wasn't an impactful player. But his stats barring injury were just shy of a 20 goal season, IIRC, and around the level of a lower level top 6 player. Similarly, in Wideman's previous couple years, he had OK stats, but indifferent play. Something this year sparked him into a competitor. Maybe this could happen with Raymond.

Setoguchi was simply an experiment at almost no cost or risk, coming off a dreadful season.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

And yet almost 90% of Flames UFAs and players with tight ties to the Flames opt to sign elsewhere:

Conroy, Iginla, Hamrlick, Aucion, Prust (turned down a bigger offer from the Flames), Cammalleri, Moss, Nystrom, Hannan, Stuart, Pardy, Higgins, Bertuzzi.... well you get the picture.... UFAs as a rule usually sign with a team other than the one that owns their rights and they should feel an obligation to.

The Leafs gave a lot bigger chance to Mason Raymond to give him a contract when no one else would. Does it make him a bad person to accept the Flames big contract offer?

Same as its a business theory that get player traded at the trade deadline for draft picks.

wtf

You're comparing signing a college draft pick who has yet to play a pro game to Iggy being traded at the deadline after 16 seasons as a Flame?

This analysis is way over my head.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

And yet almost 90% of Flames UFAs and players with tight ties to the Flames opt to sign elsewhere:

Conroy, Iginla, Hamrlick, Aucion, Prust (turned down a bigger offer from the Flames), Cammalleri, Moss, Nystrom, Hannan, Stuart, Pardy, Higgins, Bertuzzi.... well you get the picture.... UFAs as a rule usually sign with a team other than the one that owns their rights and they should feel an obligation to.

Gee, what's the difference between those players and Jankowski?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by heep223

wtf

You're comparing signing a college draft pick who has yet to play a pro game to Iggy being traded at the deadline after 16 seasons as a Flame?

This analysis is way over my head.

Players agents and families sign where is best for them. It seldom is the place where a team drafts them as a 18 year old.

Why would Calgary be the best place for Jankowski?

Do you think that McDavid would choose to go to Edmonton if he was a UFA the year he turns pro?

If Gaudreau was a UFA the Flames fully understood that he would have signed elsewhere.... thus the reason to have the private jet at his last NCAA game.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Players agents and families sign where is best for them. It seldom is the place where a team drafts them as a 18 year old.

Why would Calgary be the best place for Jankowski?

Do you think that McDavid would choose to go the Edmonton if he was a UFA the year he turns pro?

If Gaudreau was a UFA the Flames fully understood that he would have signed elsewhere.... thus the reason to have the private jet at his last NCAA game.

The question isn't how many NHL UFAs sign with their previous team - it's how many college draft picks don't sign with their team right before UFA status? Gaudreau isn't the only example of a last minute signing. And if he wanted to go elsewhere, he would have, private jet or no.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Players agents and families sign where is best for them. It seldom is the place where a team drafts them as a 18 year old.

Why would Calgary be the best place for Jankowski?

Do you think that McDavid would choose to go the Edmonton if he was a UFA the year he turns pro?

If Gaudreau was a UFA the Flames fully understood that he would have signed elsewhere.... thus the reason to have the private jet at his last NCAA game.

The % of college players who are drafted and then don't sign with the team that drafted them is small.

Also - why wouldn't Calgary be the best place for Jankowski? Young, up and coming team that loves college players and gives their young guys chances to make the team. He's Canadian.

Re: Gaudreau yeah obviously the team was trying to convince him to not go back to school for his final year. If he did that, he could have signed with another team, not sure how you could say that he would have signed with another team.

I just don't really see where you're coming from tbh but that's ok.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Gee, what's the difference between those players and Jankowski?

They actually got a pay cheque from the Flames before they had an opportunity to choose where they would play.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

They actually got a pay cheque from the Flames before they had an opportunity to choose where they would play.

Or could it be that they had an NHL track record to sell? Plus, a bunch of them were trades, not UFAs. With others it was a mutual parting.

If Jankowski isn't signed it will be because the Flames don't want him, not because Jankowski wants to play elsewhere.

[northcrunk]

I wouldn't trade any of them yet. What are we the Oilers?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

I wouldn't trade any of them yet. What are we the Oilers?

Would I trade any? Sure, theoretically. Show me the deal.

Do I want to to? Probably not. I doubt any other teams would actually give the value needed to do a trade.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by heep223

Also - why wouldn't Calgary be the best place for Jankowski? Young, up and coming team that loves college players and gives their young guys chances to make the team. He's Canadian.

Travel , proximity to friends and family...

Monahan, Bennett, Gaudreau, Colborne, Ferland, Granlund, Bouma , Shore, Jooris 9 established NHL forwards 25 and under who will have to clear waivers when Jankowski would sign with the Flames.... all except Bennett

Monahan, Bennett, Backlund, Stajan -- NHL level established centres.

Stajan will be the 4th line centre and has a contract that runs to 2018.

Maybe there will be trades or injuries or No signing of UFA's or Hudler/Jones/Bollig/.


The other constraint is the Flames have a deeper farm pool than ever... Poirier, Klimchuck, Smith, Arnold all being Blue chippers expected to get some NHL games who might be ahead of Jankowski in the 2016-17 training camp.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Travel , proximity to friends and family...

Monahan, Bennett, Gaudreau, Colborne, Ferland, Granlund, Bouma , Shore, Jooris 9 established NHL forwards 25 and under who will have to clear waivers when Jankowski would sign with the Flames.... all except Bennett

Monahan, Bennett, Backlund, Stajan -- NHL level established centres.

Stajan will be the 4th line centre and has a contract that runs to 2018.

Maybe there will be trades or injuries or No signing of UFA's or Hudler/Jones/Bollig/.


The other constraint is the Flames have a deeper farm pool than ever... Poirier, Klimchuck, Smith, Arnold all being Blue chippers expected to get some NHL games who might be ahead of Jankowski in the 2016-17 training camp.

If Jankowski feels he has no shot at making the Flames, then he should sign elsewhere. And if that's true, then the Flames don't need him.

As for travel, family, friends... show me where that was a deciding factor in any college draftee choosing not to sign and go elsewhere?

[FBI]

Janko will sign with the flames so he can hang out with his buddy in the ahl for a few years until they make the jump.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If Jankowski feels he has no shot at making the Flames, then he should sign elsewhere. And if that's true, then the Flames don't need him.

As for travel, family, friends... show me where that was a deciding factor in any college draftee choosing not to sign and go elsewhere?

The Flames have invested time and a 1st round pick in Jankowski. They aren't going to just let him go. He will get his opportunity when they feel he's ready. If a team wants to trade for him you listen but letting him walk is poor asset management.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Do players like Hanowski, Agostino, Reinhart even have any value? I would venture a guess that nobody would claim them on waivers.

How can you even execute a trade without at least one Hanowski going the other way?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Do players like Hanowski, Agostino, Reinhart even have any value? I would venture a guess that nobody would claim them on waivers. .

They would likely pass through waivers.

Originally Posted by ricardodw

...Jankowski ...

At least the Flames will get a 2nd round pick in the 2017 draft.

Just curious if anyone knows how the 2017 draft is, is it deep? Is a 2nd round pick worth more than Jankowski? If he projects to be a 3rd liner, we might be better off with the draft pick.

[Street Pharmacist]

I look at it this way. Whether it not he wants to stay with Calgary, by taking it to the end he gets likely a max ELC or at least maximizes the offer. He can become UFA and sign with Calgary but use the leverage of other offers. Financially, going the distance at this point makes sense