Vaccines don't cause autism (duh)

[Bagor]

I wonder what the insurance company's take on it is given they are in the business of managing risk.

Can they refuse to payout for treatment of an unvaccinated child that gets the disease or is that going against one of the constitution things?

[Knut]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Possibly, but from what I read it is still uncertain exactly how much of a role it played in those first few months. At the same time the H1N1 frenzy was occurring, many people started taking other preventative measures regarding hygiene and self-quarantine which probably played a big role (I recall hand sanitizer popping up everywhere for example). The vaccine may have been a piece of the puzzle though, so don't get me wrong. I just recall stories at the time that stated the vaccine was only 20-40% effective when it was first rolled out, which kind of scares me to think that some people were likely getting a false sense of security which may have led to more riskier behavior. At some point, if the effectiveness of a vaccine is below a certain level, the returns are not necessarily positive.

Having said that, recent studies show that right now, the current H1N1 vaccine is upwards of 90% effective, which is quite amazing in my opinion, and that since 2009, the number of infections has likely been reduced by 70% due to flu vaccinations. So taken as a whole, the H1N1 vaccine was a success, but I still question how it was rolled out in the beginning, especially considering the effectiveness was unknown at the time.

Sort of OT but related, but I recall years ago reading an article about a potential HIV vaccine that worked, but had a really low rate of working (I think it was around 10% or something like that). They determined that because vaccinated people in a population tend to feel more secure and take fewer precautions, that in order to actually reduce HIV transmission in a population, the vaccine would need to be at least 40% effective before rolling out. It was a long time ago, so the numbers might be a little fuzzy now, but that was the gist of it. Obviously predicting human behavior is not easy and HIV is not the same as the flu (I would argue that HIV while more serious, is actually harder to catch), I think the same principle would apply.

I am sure you know more about this than I do though, so what is your take?

The issues was really with how it was handled. The province had a shortage and didnt plan accordingly.

Kids, Seniors and health care workers/day care workers should have been prioritized. Instead they just kind of let everyone get in line.

I remember waiting 4 hrs in a lineup but i felt it important to get it as I work with patients all day.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Hesla

The issues was really with how it was handled. The province had a shortage and didnt plan accordingly.

Kids, Seniors and health care workers/day care workers should have been prioritized. Instead they just kind of let everyone get in line.

I remember waiting 4 hrs in a lineup but i felt it important to get it as I work with patients all day.

I agree that health care professionals should be a priority because of how likely they would be to be exposed, but also because most of them would understand that the effectiveness at that point wasn't verified and the even in the best of circumstances, vaccines aren't a guarantee of anything. They would not likely change their behavior just because they were vaccinated.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of people assume they completely protected after being vaccinated, which I think in the wrong circumstances (i.e., a vaccine not fully tested), could be dangerous and therefore should be reserved for priority cases.

[Knut]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2015...nated-children

A Great Article here about a Child who can not be vaccinated at the moment due to a history of Leukemia. His school has 7% of the children un-vaccinated due to "personal belief exemptions".

I really hope the good that comes out of this Disney outbreak is mandatory Vaccinations if in public school, without exemption.

[Thor]

Would be great if they started offering vaccine free day cares, I mean that in a disturbing way as to show these idiot parents the consequences of their actions.

[Raekwon]

"Family that refused vaccination put my baby in quarantine"

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/28/health...ers/index.html


Then the Simons learned from a doctor that the child in the doctor's office had contracted measles because his parents had refused vaccination.

I think a certain doctor might be getting sued in the near future. Antivax or not they can't leak this kind of information.

[ernie]

I'm pretty thankful that my kids school has a vaccination requirement. Every year prior to them being able to set foot in the school we have to provide the complete up to date records.

It is also mandatory when applying for a greencard in the states. I couldn't prove it due to records being lost in floods and moves and what not. So I got every single vaccination again. That was a fun day.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

"Family that refused vaccination put my baby in quarantine"

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/28/health...ers/index.html


Then the Simons learned from a doctor that the child in the doctor's office had contracted measles because his parents had refused vaccination.

I think a certain doctor might be getting sued in the near future. Antivax or not they can't leak this kind of information.

I'm not convinced that the leaked information is completely correct. It seems sort of thrown in. There is no reason for the doctors office to provide that information directly. SOunds like a friend of a friend type of communication rather than the official communication from the office which likely was more of "your kid may have been exposed to measles" thing.

[Flashpoint]

I think it's unconscionable that exemptions are allowed on religious grounds.

It's no different than parental "opinion" when it comes to validity. When it comes to public health, you shouldn't have the choice, as your actions harm others.

[driveway]

It's important to remember that vaccines are not perfect. I know from personal experience that there are people for whom the Rubella vaccine in the MMR shot simply doesn't work.

In order to get my work visa here in Taiwan, I need to get a health check every year, this includes a blood test to look for, among other things, MMR antibodies. I don't have Rubella antibodies, despite getting three MMR shots in three years. I talked to my sister (a pediatric nurse who does vaccinations) about it and she admitted that this is not at all uncommon.

Vaccines are at their most effective when the rate of vaccination is extremely high, near 100%, providing a high level of herd immunity. People who chose not to vaccinate their kids are jerks.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by driveway

It's important to remember that vaccines are not perfect. I know from personal experience that there are people for whom the Rubella vaccine in the MMR shot simply doesn't work.

Which is why EVERYONE needs to get vaccinated, so they get the herd immunity, I would definitely be on board with mandatory immunization for public schools.

While we're at it we should ban them from large public places as well. No malls, stadiums, arenas, rec centers, basically anywhere where their stupidity could effect large numbers of people. While there are obviously a few exceptions, for the most part the decision not to vaccinate is based sheerly on ignorance/stupidity, and that is something I have very little tolerance for.

[FlamesAddiction]

Canada could definitely do better. I know in about half of European countries, there are mandatory vaccinations for children against at least 1 or more diseases. One thing they add to help is a compensation program for anyone injured from a vaccination. From what I read, Canada and Russia are the only two G8 countries that don't have something like that in place.

Some of the countries where it is not mandatory, take away child care benefits from people that refuse to vaccinate their children. Something like that might work as well.

[FlameOn]

So an Arizona woman has infected up to 195 children with measles because she was in contact with a bunch of children at a daycare. She was not vaccinated.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2...dren/22452491/

Seems to me like we should start looking at mandatory vaccinations or at the very least make it much more costly for the anti-vaxxer crowds. How else are you going to control cases like this?

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

So an Arizona woman has infected up to 195 children with measles because she was in contact with a bunch of children at a daycare. She was not vaccinated.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2...dren/22452491/

Seems to me like we should start looking at mandatory vaccinations or at the very least make it much more costly for the anti-vaxxer crowds. How else are you going to control cases like this?

Typhoid Mary was isolated for thirty years, until her death, for infecting 1/4 that number.

[FlameOn]

Things are escalating. Now a US parent of a kid with leukemia is trying to get unvaccinated kids banned from school.

In the latest salvo in the vaccination wars that have shaken California since a measles outbreak originated at Disneyland last month, the father of a 6-year-old boy with leukemia has asked the superintendent of his Marin County school district to keep unvaccinated children out of school.

“I respect people’s choices about what to do with their kids, but if someone’s kid gets sick and gets my kid sick, too, that’s a problem,” said the father, Carl Krawitt of Corte Madera, Calif., whose son, Rhett, was found to have leukemia in 2010. “What we need to do, for all our children, is increase the herd immunity.”

Rhett is in remission now, but four years of chemotherapy have left him vulnerable to infection and unable to be vaccinated. Until his immune system strengthens, his best protection from infectious diseases is the so-called herd immunity of a community where almost everyone has been vaccinated.

But he lives in a part of the Bay Area where an unusually high number of parents refuse vaccinations for their children. Over all, about 7 percent of the children at Rhett’s school, Reed Elementary, are unvaccinated — a rate that is higher than the statewide average but far lower than at some other schools in the county, where fully half of the students are not vaccinated, according to Dr. Matt Willis, the county health officer.

Link

[Thor]

Semi related, its from a woman who is anti vaxx, just one of the best examples of having no science education, homeostasis anyone???

[chemgear]

Good.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/anti-v...tors-1.2937681

With California gripped by a measles outbreak, Dr. Charles Goodman posted a clear notice in his waiting room and on Facebook: His practice will no longer see children whose parents won't get them vaccinated.

"Parents who choose not to give measles shots, they're not just putting their kids at risk, but they're also putting other kids at risk — especially kids in my waiting room," the Los Angeles pediatrician said.

Some mothers who have been dropped by their doctors feel "betrayed and upset," said Dotty Hagmier, founder of the support group Moms in Charge. She said these parents made up their minds about vaccines after "careful research and diligence to understand the risks versus the benefits for their own children's circumstances."

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Some mothers who have been dropped by their doctors feel "betrayed and upset," said Dotty Hagmier, founder of the support group Moms in Charge. She said these parents made up their minds about vaccines after "careful research and diligence to understand the risks versus the benefits for their own children's circumstances."

Oh #### off.

[habernac]

Careful research?

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by habernac

Careful research?