Alberta Politics Thread

[robaur]

Originally Posted by rubecube

IMO, Brad Wall is only acting like Brad Wall because it's an election year for him and he's trying to get the attention off of some the corruption and cronyism allegations against him.

Sounds a lot like just another Wildrose Looney.

Anyway...article on Notley's stand which I agree a lot with.


http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/e...the-right-play

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by rubecube

article...

I like how they mentioned that it didn't hurt the economy.

And then they go on to discuss how they cut corporate and personal income taxes.

Do I need to give them more time?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by robaur

Sounds a lot like just another Wildrose Looney.

Anyway...article on Notley's stand which I agree a lot with.


http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/e...the-right-play

That isn't Notley's stand so much as it is what the author thinks Notley's stand should be

[CaptainCrunch]

I disagree strongly with that article. Notley already basically surrendered and played nice to Ontario and Quebec and she got sand kicked in her face and her panties pulled over the back of her head.

At this point, she needs to be calling out the hypocrisy of these provinces and public ally calling out Trudeau for his limp approach to this province.

We can get a lot of people that can become premieres and be soft spoken and nice and blah blah blah. That's not what this province needs right now.

At this point the last thing that we should do is give a crap about Quebec's feelings.

They're wrong, Pipelines are a federal mandate.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by robaur

How many pipelines have Harper's Conservatives and Alberta's PC's gotten built in the last 10 years?

Answer: 0


Just because Notley isn't acting like Brad Wall doesn't mean anything. It's very easy to blast the Federal and Quebec governments and would have been the easy route. I think Notley showed a lot of restraint, and a great deal of character.

Yup the system is broken, and now the Federal Liberals instead of I don't know making it work, want to add a longer time line to it.

And to your second part I'll translate

Notley has shown nothing since she got here, and continues to show nothing, no leadership, no bite, a big old bag of not give a crap as long as it doesn't effect her support base.

You want the truth, right now, Redford was corrupt, Notley is useless.

[Resolute 14]

If there is one thing Notley is not showing by backing down every time Alberta is challenged or attacked, it is character. Rather, she is showing an incredible lack of same.

[robaur]

Well she did say we are not at the gun fight yet.....

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yup the system is broken, and now the Federal Liberals instead of I don't know making it work, want to add a longer time line to it.

And to your second part I'll translate

Notley has shown nothing since she got here, and continues to show nothing, no leadership, no bite, a big old bag of not give a crap as long as it doesn't effect her support base.

You want the truth, right now, Redford was corrupt, Notley is useless.

How do you propose they make it work with the current political capital attached to it? The reality is there is only one way to make it work and that's to change the public's perception towards the process, which is exactly what they're doing.

[northcrunk]

Notley has come off like a floor mat with this whole thing. Even our Mayor looks stronger on the file and it isn't even his job. She needs to go.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yup the system is broken, and now the Federal Liberals instead of I don't know making it work, want to add a longer time line to it.

And to your second part I'll translate

Notley has shown nothing since she got here, and continues to show nothing, no leadership, no bite, a big old bag of not give a crap as long as it doesn't effect her support base.

You want the truth, right now, Redford was corrupt, Notley is useless.

Seeing as you have the answers, who is going to turn Alberta around within a year? Is it Jean? Hes an absolute moron. Is it the Cons? Is it the Liberals? Who?

Nothing wrong with a different approach, you want results then look back at the previous governments and ask yourself why the hell they didn't get the pipeline that you so desire built.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

How do you propose they make it work with the current political capital attached to it? The reality is there is only one way to make it work and that's to change the public's perception towards the process, which is exactly what they're doing.

Your not going to change public perception when you have Notley jetting off for NDP fundraisers in Ontario to support a party that is anti-oilsands and anti-pipeline.

you are not going to change public perception when you go to Quebec and basically drop to your knees, give them a veto and tell them that Alberta is a dirty province with a bad environmental record.

You're not going to change public perception when Quebec files a court injunction that goes against the constitution of this country and you just basically shrug your shoulders and melt.

You stand up and very loudly sell this pipeline as a safer alternative and that you as premiere fully and completely and loudly support it. You support your industry loudly and from the top of a soap box. You don't mumble and stand by quietly.

When BC takes a shot at you, you tell them to shut their lying mouths. When Quebec mouths off tell them to come back when they live up to the standards that they want you to live up and then tell them to shut their mouths.

Every week you get on the phone with the prime minister and ask him the question. Have you set the deadline date for the review, and will your office support it when its approved. then you tell him to shut his mouth and get you some tang.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Your not going to change public perception when you have Notley jetting off for NDP fundraisers in Ontario to support a party that is anti-oilsands and anti-pipeline.

you are not going to change public perception when you go to Quebec and basically drop to your knees, give them a veto and tell them that Alberta is a dirty province with a bad environmental record.

You're not going to change public perception when Quebec files a court injunction that goes against the constitution of this country and you just basically shrug your shoulders and melt.

You stand up and very loudly sell this pipeline as a safer alternative and that you as premiere fully and completely and loudly support it. You support your industry loudly and from the top of a soap box. You don't mumble and stand by quietly.

When BC takes a shot at you, you tell them to shut their lying mouths. When Quebec mouths off tell them to come back when they live up to the standards that they want you to live up and then tell them to shut their mouths.

Every week you get on the phone with the prime minister and ask him the question. Have you set the deadline date for the review, and will your office support it when its approved. then you tell him to shut his mouth and get you some tang.

Sounds like what Wall is doing to an extent. How is that working out? Different approach might get different results....

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Sounds like what Wall is doing to an extent. How is that working out? Different approach might get different results....

Don't see that happening. I see Ontario and Quebec and BC continually dragging us down, and demanding more and more concessions and painting us as the black sheep of Canada.

Playing nice isn't going to work, Notley tried that with Quebec and with BC and Ontario and she got a huge load of pie in her face.

If Quebec is going to court on an unconstitutional matter, then Alberta should retaliate with a border tariff for products from those provinces and let them take it to court.

[Fuzz]

While an interesting idea, what do you think Quebec would do if we put up an inter-provincial barrier for them? My guess is they'd laugh, because the impact would be minimal.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

If there is one thing Notley is not showing by backing down every time Alberta is challenged or attacked, it is character. Rather, she is showing an incredible lack of same.

Yup. No lady-balls.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

Yup. No lady-balls.

You dont have to masculanize it, it isnt about balls or gender, its about character.

If you're a leader then when the going gets tough you have to stand and be counted. She isnt doing it and it has nothing to do with her being a woman.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by rubecube

How do you propose they make it work with the current political capital attached to it? The reality is there is only one way to make it work and that's to change the public's perception towards the process, which is exactly what they're doing.

Most polls show a majority of Canadians are in favour of EE. The public perception is fine. The political capital is seriously wanting.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Your not going to change public perception when you have Notley jetting off for NDP fundraisers in Ontario to support a party that is anti-oilsands and anti-pipeline.

you are not going to change public perception when you go to Quebec and basically drop to your knees, give them a veto and tell them that Alberta is a dirty province with a bad environmental record.

You're not going to change public perception when Quebec files a court injunction that goes against the constitution of this country and you just basically shrug your shoulders and melt.

You stand up and very loudly sell this pipeline as a safer alternative and that you as premiere fully and completely and loudly support it. You support your industry loudly and from the top of a soap box. You don't mumble and stand by quietly.

When BC takes a shot at you, you tell them to shut their lying mouths. When Quebec mouths off tell them to come back when they live up to the standards that they want you to live up and then tell them to shut their mouths.

Every week you get on the phone with the prime minister and ask him the question. Have you set the deadline date for the review, and will your office support it when its approved. then you tell him to shut his mouth and get you some tang.

Okay, well I thought you were referring to the federal Liberals, but with regards to Notley I think she's actually playing it right, I'm just not willing to give her any credit for doing it intentionally because I think it's more incompetence than strategy. Going all Brad Wall on this is exactly what you don't want to do. It might play well with Albertans and Saskatchewanites, but take a pulse of the rest of Canada and it's not moving the needle. If anything it's creating more division and intransigence on the issue.

Like it or not Alberta is bargaining from a position of weakness. Now, I don't know what political/negotiation strategies you're familiar, but most of the ones I'm familiar with would not advise antagonizing the people in the stronger position at the bargaining table. If Notley were to go all Brad Wall, get on her soapbox and basically antagonize the other provinces, all it would likely do would further damage the cause. The last thing Alberta wants is for more sentiment to go against pipelines to the point where they become an issue that none of the federal parties want to touch because it's going to cost them seats in every province but the prairies.

Again, I get that people are hurting, but with regards to Trudeau you can't seriously expect the guy to risk his chances for re-election to appease one province. I mean it'd be nice if politicians were more principled than opportunistic but that's just not the reality of the situation. Political parties and politicians in this country aren't in the business of running the country, they're in the business of getting elected. If the crowd here is generally against idealism when it comes to policies, then it absolutely shouldn't expect it in politics.

So yeah, the delay is absolutely a move to rebuild political capital surrounding the issue. Will it work? Who knows, but we do know that the approach the federal and provincial Conservatives took for the past 10 years definitely wasn't working, so an alternative was really the only legitimate option.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Seeing as you have the answers, who is going to turn Alberta around within a year?

No one is going to turn Alberta around in a year. But that doesn't mean we should put up with being treated like Canada's toilet paper.

[Red Slinger]

Let me start by saying I am not an NDP supporter, nor did I vote for the NDP. However, I think what rubecube is saying is bang on. What do we want to get out of this? The Alberta energy industry needs a pipeline built to tidal water and the easiest path at the moment is for EE to get built (and a pipeline to the west coast but that's another discussion). There is no way that the pipeline will be approved any time soon if Alberta gets into a political pissing contest with Ontario and especially Quebec. Now is not the time to flash machismo, whip out our collective lady balls and slap around Quebec politicians with our collective western righteous indignation.

The only way to get this built is to play the longer game. If we allow our voices to be combative the east will dig deeper into their trenches and we'll lose this fight. This shouldn't be about standing on principles and giving Quebec a piece of our mind and showing them that we won't be pushed around. Frankly, that's an immature and ineffective strategy and a sure path to failure. Brad Wall's comments help to paint him as some sort of western hero standing up to the big, bad easties but really he's just politicking as much as Corderre or any of the other corrupt politicians in Quebec.

To succeed we need to be smart and not be guided by our collective emotions which are prayed on by certain segments of the provincial political establishment. Frankly, a lot of the sentiments I hear about how Notley is handling this reminds me of some Trump supporters: "strong leadership", "we'll show them", "we won't bend over for them", etc. Just not a lot of substance or strategic thinking involved. I'm not saying Notley's right but she's not in a position of strength to turn this into a fight. We'll lose that fight.