Alberta Politics Thread

[CaptainCrunch]

Once again Notley shows her metal by stumbling around like Maverick post Goose's death muttering "Its no good, its no good"

While Albertan's are wondering if she's ever going to get into the fight

http://calgaryherald.com/business/en...nction-request

She basically sold her soul to Quebec when she first got into office and then got stabbed in the back. She let Christy Clark run all over her.

If there's anytime to come out and at least fire a shot to know what it feels like its now.

Or the other provinces will keep piling on and the Feds will do nothing.

Meanwhile Brad Wall once again goes to bat for his province and this province

http://calgaryherald.com/business/en...nction-request

Meanwhile Wall also told the Feds to pound sand he's not going to agree to a carbon tax at a Federal Level.

http://business.financialpost.com/ne..._lsa=a409-186d

[Zarley]

Can we please change the thread title to Ongoing (Alberta) NDP Transgressions Thread?

[Resolute 14]

Even if she doesn't want to go in guns a-blazing, which is understandable, it would be nice if Notley at least made the pretense of supporting her own constituents. Instead, she just plays games trying to mask the reality that she is a good little anti-oil soldier.

[saillias]

Thank you for closing that abomination.

[Major Major]

Is the environmental regulatory process already in place in Quebec, or are they making it up as they go along? Do it's other industry, namely port and transport related follow the same process? If so, I think it's reasonable and even expected that this hurtle exist. If this is a filibuster, not yet in place, or purposely too difficult to fulfill, then I would expect strong arming, mostly at the federal level... If Notley comes out firing when Quebec is only looking for due process, it could create problems ala Harper and Redford. Don't really know, but I essentially expect that politicians will disappoint me regardless of party, so I expect by the end of their tenure, I'll believe that Notley and Trudeau are idiots.

[Fuzz]

They said they wanted the pipeline to conform to 2014 regulations, which I would hope means they aren't trying to rig the game by modifying them.

[Derek Sutton]

There was in piece in the Herald yesterday or the day before saying that Notley needs to start acting like the leader of Alberta, not the leader of the NDP, this pretty much nailed it IMO. She isn't leading the province at all, no leader lets others walk all over them at will. She has been anti pipeline long before she was an MLA, given her past there is no way she stands up with TCPL backing them as they try to navigate Quebec. As a province we will be in continued economic turmoil for the next 3 years, in fact we are ******. Calling them out as to why they support imported oil from unethical countries would eb a good first step, so many people, especially those in eastern Canada don't realize how they are currently supplied.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

There was in piece in the Herald yesterday or the day before saying that Notley needs to start acting like the leader of Alberta, not the leader of the NDP, this pretty much nailed it IMO. She isn't leading the province at all, no leader lets others walk all over them at will. She has been anti pipeline long before she was an MLA, given her past there is no way she stands up with TCPL backing them as they try to navigate Quebec. As a province we will be in continued economic turmoil for the next 3 years, in fact we are ******. Calling them out as to why they support imported oil from unethical countries would eb a good first step, so many people, especially those in eastern Canada don't realize how they are currently supplied.

I wouldn't be surprised if Notley is using her position in Alberta to launch into the NDP federal leadership role. The next Alberta and Federal elections should be scheduled for 2019 (unless an early election is called.) With Mulcair having done such a poor job with the previous federal election I think he will be stepping down. He'll probably hold down the fort for a while until Notley can get a few years of experience in Alberta and develop a name and rapport for herself. That is probably why she seems to be more focused on the NDP brand vs working for Albertans.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Is the environmental regulatory process already in place in Quebec, or are they making it up as they go along? Do it's other industry, namely port and transport related follow the same process? If so, I think it's reasonable and even expected that this hurtle exist. If this is a filibuster, not yet in place, or purposely too difficult to fulfill, then I would expect strong arming, mostly at the federal level... If Notley comes out firing when Quebec is only looking for due process, it could create problems ala Harper and Redford. Don't really know, but I essentially expect that politicians will disappoint me regardless of party, so I expect by the end of their tenure, I'll believe that Notley and Trudeau are idiots.

Except that the provincial environmental impact is part of the Federal NEB review.

What Quebec wants to do is have their own provincial review of something that's already being reviewed federally. They're also trying to state that something that is guaranteed in the constitution as a federal power which is the transport of provincial goods should be controlled at a provincial level.

I believe what they're also doing is putting this in to blackmail Alberta for a share of their energy revenues. Hey we can make this nasty old lawsuit disappear if you just pay us a percentage of every bit of oil in that dirty old pipeline.

What they're doing is trying to starve us out.

Its pretty simple.

And it looks funnier because Notley basically got on her knees to the Quebec premier when she got into office and promised to implement this ridiculous carbon tax and become an environmental savior to this province in exchange for cooperation from Quebec and Ontario. And then she got stabbed int he back by both provinces.

To be honest the minute that this lawsuit was filed, the Canadian Natural Resource Minister in Ottawa should have gotten on the phone with the Premiere of Quebec and said "Hey what the f are you doing. This is a federal review matter and has nothing to do with you idiots"

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I wouldn't be surprised if Notley is using her position in Alberta to launch into the NDP federal leadership role. The next Alberta and Federal elections should be scheduled for 2019 (unless an early election is called.) With Mulcair having done such a poor job with the previous federal election I think he will be stepping down. He'll probably hold down the fort for a while until Notley can get a few years of experience in Alberta and develop a name and rapport for herself. That is probably why she seems to be more focused on the NDP brand vs working for Albertans.

Yeah, by the time its said and done here, she will be persona non grata in the NDP.

She's horrible, and being blasted for her horribleness every day.

If she wants to run for Federal Politics then she's going to have to do something to show that she's a leader and not the sum of a college course and a little red book.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Except that the provincial environmental impact is part of the Federal NEB review.

What Quebec wants to do is have their own provincial review of something that's already being reviewed federally. They're also trying to state that something that is guaranteed in the constitution as a federal power which is the transport of provincial goods should be controlled at a provincial level.

I believe what they're also doing is putting this in to blackmail Alberta for a share of their energy revenues. Hey we can make this nasty old lawsuit disappear if you just pay us a percentage of every bit of oil in that dirty old pipeline.

What they're doing is trying to starve us out.

Its pretty simple.

And it looks funnier because Notley basically got on her knees to the Quebec premier when she got into office and promised to implement this ridiculous carbon tax and become an environmental savior to this province in exchange for cooperation from Quebec and Ontario. And then she got stabbed int he back by both provinces.

To be honest the minute that this lawsuit was filed, the Canadian Natural Resource Minister in Ottawa should have gotten on the phone with the Premiere of Quebec and said "Hey what the f are you doing. This is a federal review matter and has nothing to do with you idiots"

Its the same thing that happened with another Enbridge pipeline in Quebec, and that was approved. Why can't we just let things go through the process and take its course? I don't think that the constant doom and gloom is good for anyone.

[CaptainCrunch]

Because Quebec see's this as their golden ticket for blackmail.

Putting this in front of the courts especially if the injunction is granted will take years and years and years and be appealed all the way up to he Supreme Court where it will become a constitutional powers debate.

As it stands it would be easier to just clog the road with tanker trucks or add more rail cars to the service. The to build a relatively clean pipeline.

[nik-]

Because people are tired of that province always being coddled. And people are a little annoyed at having every other jurisdiction in this province, besides Saskatchewan, turn their backs on Alberta after a decade of providing tons of work and money for the feds.

Enough already.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Because Quebec see's this as their golden ticket for blackmail.

Putting this in front of the courts especially if the injunction is granted will take years and years and years and be appealed all the way up to he Supreme Court where it will become a constitutional powers debate.

As it stands it would be easier to just clog the road with tanker trucks or add more rail cars to the service. The to build a relatively clean pipeline.

Originally Posted by nik-

Because people are tired of that province always being coddled. And people are a little annoyed at having every other jurisdiction in this province, besides Saskatchewan, turn their backs on Alberta after a decade of providing tons of work and money for the feds.

Enough already.

Sure, but we've been down this road with Enbridge and the pipeline was approved. So what's the big deal? If everything checks out and will likely get rubber stamped then let's just go with the flow and get things approved.

Granted if things are all above board and it gets rejected then its a different conversation, but frankly why bother getting all worked up today before anything has actually happened?

[Cyclops]

Anyone give any insight into what Elizabeth May talks about here? I trust she has done her research and she is stating the truth? If so it seems that the pipelines aren't as necessary as I am lead to believe.

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/9318400

[automaton 3]

It would be nice if Notley would stand up for us every once and awhile.

It feels like the other provinces are taking turns kicking us in the ribs while we're down, while she stands off to the side and looks mildly concerned.

[northcrunk]

Elizabeth Mae is part of the 'regressive' left and her opinion is garbage.

Notley is as weak as weak come politically.

[CaptainCrunch]

Her comments go against the State Department study on the Keystone pipeline where they arrived at two things which are I think on page 43 and 44.

Pipelines are safer then the other methods of transportation.

Pipelines have a lesser environmental impact then the other methods of transportation. Its not a huge reduction but its a reduction.

Elizabeth May thinks that the economy can run on fairy dust and unicorn poop.

[puckedoff]

^ Without pipelines, Canada will ship the same amount of oil but receive a lower price (and a meaningfully lower price, say 20-30%) for its oil. To not have the right pipelines in place is to rob the Canadian (Federal and Provincial) government of cash via lower royalties, lower corp taxes and lower income tax receipts.

The only case that could be made is that without pipelines to tidewater, and given the economic uncertainty, it is possible that as oil companies go bankrupt and cease production some capacity will open up in the existing pipelines to the US. Ultimately though, US production will always back out Canadian production so Canadians are doomed to receive a discounted value for their crude sent to the US, given that it is our only customer.

Much of what May states in her article as fact is not really true (or intentional half-truth, which is ironic given the purpose of her article). Canada upgrades some of its bitumen, so while not a full refinery her statement on 'why doesn't Canada have facilities to handle bitumen' is a misdirection. Canada also produces diluent, so Saudi will not be supplying all of that. Also, she claims that it is a poor value proposition, when the opposite is clearly true (the cost of the pipeline will be far less than the cumulative cost of the discount on WCS barrels over the pipeline life).

Living in the west it is absurd that the rest of Canada does not see economic value in pipelines, but reading articles like the above highlight the amount of misinformation available. Which makes sense, I mean there are probably intricacies to Eastern power/manufacuring that do not make sense to me but are 'assumed knowledge' by the rest of Canada.

Edit* And to add so I don't get picked apart here, upgraded crude can be processed in existing Canadian refineries, or shipped and referred to correctly as 'oil'. Also, Alberta will have a new bitumen refinery shortly but the returns will likely be terrible, which is why Canada doesn't do much refining (the economics are poor).

[northcrunk]

A train blew up half a town in Quebec and they still think rail is better?