[Trade] Rights of Jimmy Vesey to Buffalo for a 2016 3rd (76th OA) - Page 5 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

devo22 · 07-03-2016, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Not saying we would get him, but I bet the Flames (and a lot of teams) can really make him think. A kid like that wants a guaranteed roster spot, and in a position to succeed so that his next contract can be as big and as long as possible. Calgary is one of the teams in the league that can offer him that.

didn't the Preds guarantee him a top 6 spot in the playoffs? Plus burning a year off his ELC obviously. The kid would have none of it. At this point I just think he he wants to go to one specific team and nobody else. I think it's a dick move, but at least the Preds got a 3rd instead of losing him for nothing.

Krynn · 07-03-2016, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edslunch

It's his right to choose his destination, still this is coming off badly. Is it wrong to hope he Erixons?

I was thinking the same thing .

mrdonkey · 07-03-2016, 02:54 PM

Can we just keep this thread buried until he inevitably signs with the Bruins?

Captaincanada80 · 07-03-2016, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I wouldn't automatically exclude Calgary.

Remember when Justin Schultz pulled the same thing with Anaheim, everyone had him going to.. Detroit or NYR (can't quite remember, but it was essentially a forgone conclusion). Edmonton swooped in and showed him his place on the roster and how good it would be for his development to grow with their other young superstars (hahaha).

Point is, there is no reason that Calgary wouldn't get Gaudreau and Monahan to talk to him as part of their pitch. They can even point to Kevin Hayes and say: "Look what happened to him when he didn't sign with us. Imagine what he would have been like if he continued playing with Gaudreau."

Not saying we would get him, but I bet the Flames (and a lot of teams) can really make him think. A kid like that wants a guaranteed roster spot, and in a position to succeed so that his next contract can be as big and as long as possible. Calgary is one of the teams in the league that can offer him that.

Not sure he is worth all the effort, but a free asset is a free asset, and you can always trade him back to the Preds

Calgary does not operate like that. A gaurenteed spot in the lineup would never be given to a spoiled little brat. We not run like the circus up north.

Always earned, Never given!

EldrickOnIce · 07-03-2016, 03:52 PM

I never get the 'spoiled little brat' stuff.
The draft exists only to equalize talent, and so it must, but not for any other reason. The Preds picked him in the 3rd round and got a 3rd back. They didn't really invest in him otherwise.
Autonomy in one's chosen profession is not a bad thing.

Alberta_Beef · 07-03-2016, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

What was the last one of these situations that worked out for the player? Dany DeKeyser?

Schultz didn't work out so well.

Hayes has been underwhelming in New York.

Am I missing anyone?

DeKeyser doesn't fit this IMO, he never spurned a team to choose his own destination. He's in a group with guys like Curtis Glencross, Tyler Bozak, Andy Greene, Torey Krug, Kevan Miller, Matt Read, Andrej Sustr... etc that were undrafted and chose their destination. Seems these guys have far more success.

PepsiFree · 07-03-2016, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I never get the 'spoiled little brat' stuff.

The draft exists only to equalize talent, and so it must, but not for any other reason. The Preds picked him in the 3rd round and got a 3rd back. They didn't really invest in him otherwise.

Autonomy in one's chosen profession is not a bad thing.

It's just some macho "old school" sort of thing that turns these situations into a made up brouhaha.

Why some people desperately need to insult the guy and hope he fails simply because he wants to choose where he plays is beyond me. Nobody owns him. He's not under contract. Buffalo has his negotiating rights, that's it.

EldrickOnIce · 07-03-2016, 04:37 PM

The other part of it is that American born players always get to choose where they play. There is no draft. Vesey didn't have to go to St Cloud State because he was drafted there, like the WHL bantam draft requires. Vesey chose to attend and get a degree at Harvard instead. American born players have always had the choice of where they play, and Vesey is exercising that choice in the NHL now as well.
I think always being subject to the draft changes a players thinking with regard having the freedom to choose where to play.

memphusk · 07-03-2016, 04:42 PM

Wasn't Blake Wheeler's situation like this?

Poe969 · 07-03-2016, 04:43 PM

Soon GM's are going to be more worried about drafting American born guys in college than drafting Russians lol.

Not acting like a brat at all IMO. It's 100% his rite and the team new the risk when they drafted him.

gargamel · 07-03-2016, 06:51 PM

I just wish Pilly had been the team that drafted him. The abuse he'd have received any time he played there would have at least been entertaining.

For anyone saying he's doing nothing wrong, you wouldn't be at least a little upset if Gaudreau were a Bruin right now? Thankfully he's not, because he has some class.

Krynn · 07-03-2016, 07:06 PM

I think it's the leafs so he can bee there with his daddy and brother and if it is the league better look in to the tampering

Table 5 · 07-03-2016, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Who does this kid think he is. I sincerely hope he busts.

Jimmy holds grudges!

EldrickOnIce · 07-03-2016, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gargamel

I just wish Pilly had been the team that drafted him. The abuse he'd have received any time he played there would have at least been entertaining.

For anyone saying he's doing nothing wrong, you wouldn't be at least a little upset if Gaudreau were a Bruin right now? Thankfully he's not, because he has some class.

The current example that fits isn't Gaudreau though, it's Jankowski. He played his 4 years and could have become a free agent. Elite college players, like Gaudreau, almost never play 4 years, so have to sign with the team that drafted them.

devo22 · 07-03-2016, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

The current example that fits isn't Gaudreau though, it's Jankowski. He played his 4 years and could have become a free agent. Elite college players, like Gaudreau, almost never play 4 years, so have to sign with the team that drafted them.

Vesey was an elite college player ... heck, he put up even better numbers in his junior season and the Preds pushed hard to sign him last year too. The Gaudreau comparison is valid - Vesey told the Preds after his junior season that he would return for his senior year, then strung them along all year and then refused to sign. Theoretically Gaudreau could have done the same.

PepsiFree · 07-03-2016, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gargamel

For anyone saying he's doing nothing wrong, you wouldn't be at least a little upset if Gaudreau were a Bruin right now? Thankfully he's not, because he has some class.

Is your point that in a situation where it would hard to be able to look at it objectively, it would be hard to be objective?

Of course you'd be upset if you were a Preds fan, or upset of Gaudreau did it to Calgary... because you're biased.

Being upset isn't the same as being right.

We've got exactly nothing to judge Vesey's class on and anyone who tries is petty. It's immature. This is a business.

Calgary4LIfe · 07-03-2016, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I never get the 'spoiled little brat' stuff.
The draft exists only to equalize talent, and so it must, but not for any other reason. The Preds picked him in the 3rd round and got a 3rd back. They didn't really invest in him otherwise.
Autonomy in one's chosen profession is not a bad thing.

I'm also ok with players opting for UFA status instead of signing with their team - though 3rd round or not, the draft is all about distributing talent as fairly as possible.

What I don't like is when players in this position can't be honest about it. Vesey said he was going to sign with the Preds, and they left a spot open for him. At the last minute, he spurns them? Schultz did the same thing in Anaheim. Erixon did the same thing here - though the Flames at least were able to trade him at the last minute.

If these kids are going to be man enough to spurn their teams that drafted them and invested in them (yes, there is an investment as the teams frequently visit them, keep tabs on their development, often work with the existing development coach in the NCAA squad to better guide them into the NHL, etc), have them come to training camps (the kids have to pay their own dime, sure, but they take up a spot for consecutive years instead of having that spot open to invite another potential player that would be all too happy to sign).

Just come out and give that team a head's up with enough time for them to recoup what they invested in them. That is only fair. Preds miraculously got a third for him back because Buffalo felt it was a good gamble to take, and they were lucky - but is a third really recouping what they spent? That is years of doing the above. If they are breaking-even on a pick, they are still losing out.

These kids just need to be man enough to tell the team a year or 6 months at least in advance that they are not going to sign, not keep stringing them along until the last possible second.

nickerjones · 07-03-2016, 08:46 PM

Should the NHL push to put a rule in to curb this behavior? Maybe if a player opts for NCAA the drafting team gets the rights for an extra year after college? Would that be enough? Would the NHLPA fight it?

Table 5 · 07-03-2016, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickerjones

Should the NHL push to put a rule in to curb this behavior? Maybe if a player opts for NHL the drafting team gets the rights for an extra year after college? Would that be enough? Would the NHLPA fight it?

I think the main item they need to implement is for a team to be able to sign a player without affecting college eligibility. Allow the player to be signed and finish out his college career. If the guy doesn't want to sign going into his 4th year, it's pretty apparent he won't sign with you no matter what he says.

Of course that whole issue most likely comes from the NCAA, not the NHL.

Calgary4LIfe · 07-03-2016, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickerjones

Should the NHL push to put a rule in to curb this behavior? Maybe if a player opts for NCAA the drafting team gets the rights for an extra year after college? Would that be enough? Would the NHLPA fight it?

I think the market will fix itself, actually. 'The Russian Factor' will come into play, and I do think that teams will try to persuade the prospects they drafted to opt into a different development path instead of the NCAA route, so that they can sign contracts.

The NCAA will be the ones that will eventually cave-in. That is, if there is a market correction. If NHL teams are persuading less and less kids to go the NCAA route, I really do think the NCAA will eventually allow teams to sign a player without voiding their amateur status. Maybe a caveat is that the money has to remain in a trust. Who knows.

I just think that if the NCAA continues to be adamant that a kid signing a pro contract is grounds for voiding his NCAA eligibility, and more and more talent opt-out of signing with the team that drafted them, then eventually the NCAA is going to find itself having less talent overall as teams encourage prospects to play somewhere else.