GT: Federal Election

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I love playing shell games.

You can nit pick the details but they recorded a surplus in 2014/15, that was a year ahead of projections.
http://www.fin.gc.ca/afr-rfa/2015/re...apport-eng.asp

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Fire

So the Liberals campaigned that the Conservatives were terrible because they had deficits after the 2008 meltdown, but when the Conservatives finally did manage to balance the budget the Liberals feel it's a good time to go back into massive debt again?

So the Conservatives were fine running deficits in a downturn, because it's widely recognized as good economic policy to do so while interest rates are low to boost certain sectors of the economy that would otherwise lag in a recession, but that's not OK for Liberals?

I don't think anyone (with decent knowledge of economics) had a problem with the Conservative deficits, just the annoying rhetoric that they were somehow economic powerhouses and everyone else has no clue. Even though the Liberals plan for the downturn was pretty much the same as the Conservatives from the last time, and for some reason it was a problem now.

There were a lot of problems with the Conservatives, mostly based on the social side of the spectrum, which, as a largely socialist nation, many disagreed with.

[Flash Walken]

Deficit spending in a recession is sound economic policy.

Selling off profitable public assets for short term economic gain (BC Liberals, Klein Conservatives, Harper Government) is unsound economic policy.

When Alberta gets hit the way it has, it's going to be an issue for the rest of the country, there's just no way around it as things currently exist. It's in the best interest of Albertans that the Federal Government continue to underwrite the economy.

With Canadians being so over leveraged with consumer credit, deficit spending is basically the only play left in the playbook for a Federal government regardless of who was in power.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by MattyC

So the Conservatives were fine running deficits in a downturn, because it's widely recognized as good economic policy to do so while interest rates are low to boost certain sectors of the economy that would otherwise lag in a recession, but that's not OK for Liberals?

I keep seeing this argument but I don't see what today's interest rates have to do with anything when there is no plan to pay that debt off. Interest rates aren't going to stay low forever and eventually we need to live within our means.

As for the rest of your post, Lib and NDP supporters have been going on for years that Harper inherited a surplus and ran big deficits pretty much totally ignoring the worst economy in a generation. Now that Trudeau (and Notley) is in suddenly debt doesn't matter any more, it's a good thing. Besides, if it is bad it's all Harper's fault anyway. I can't lump you in with those folks though since you don't acknowledge debt as being a real thing therefore we shouldn't worry about it.

[CaptainCrunch]

Even the most ardent Liberal supporters should have a problem with a campaign promise of 10 billion dollar a year deficits versus the reality that the deficit could hit more then double that by the next election.

Didn't Justin also promise to returned to balanced budgets by 2020? After short term deficit spending.

And yet the infrastructure spending that he talked about which was the main peg of his spending tree is pretty much unchanged.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Even the most ardent Liberal supporters should have a problem with a campaign promise of 10 billion dollar a year deficits versus the reality that the deficit could hit more then double that by the next election.

Didn't Justin also promise to returned to balanced budgets by 2020? After short term deficit spending.

And yet the infrastructure spending that he talked about which was the main peg of his spending tree is pretty much unchanged.

Not a Liberal supporter, but it's certainly not something I would try to spin as a positive. I'm still not concerned about the increased deficit but it really comes across as politics as usual.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I keep seeing this argument but I don't see what today's interest rates have to do with anything when there is no plan to pay that debt off. Interest rates aren't going to stay low forever and eventually we need to live within our means.

Depends on how the lending is structured. Can't say I've looked at it that critically. And again, were you OK with Cons doing the same thing 8 years ago? If you were, then I don't see what the problem is outside of pure partisanship.

As for the rest of your post, Lib and NDP supporters have been going on for years that Harper inherited a surplus and ran big deficits pretty much totally ignoring the worst economy in a generation. Now that Trudeau (and Notley) is in suddenly debt doesn't matter any more, it's a good thing. Besides, if it is bad it's all Harper's fault anyway. I can't lump you in with those folks though since you don't acknowledge debt as being a real thing therefore we shouldn't worry about it.

Again, what does this have to do with the Liberals economic policy? What does a bunch of whiners from before have to do with the actual economics involved in what the government is doing? "Some people cried about this before and now they're acting like it's ok!!" Alright, aren't you doing the same thing in reverse? Does any of what people said 8 years ago actually matter?

You want to complain about the deficits, fine. Then you have to complain about the Conservatives doing exactly the same thing.

Want to have an actual discussion about the real impacts of these decisions without whining about what opposing supporters cried about almost a decade ago? All ears.

I'm not interested in discussing what supporters of either side cry about. I'm interested in discussing what the government is actually doing. They are very different things. The election is over. This is the government we have now.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by MattyC

You want to complain about the deficits, fine. Then you have to complain about the Conservatives doing exactly the same thing.

I did.

Originally Posted by MattyC

Want to have an actual discussion about the real impacts of these decisions without whining about what opposing supporters cried about almost a decade ago? All ears.

You mean a couple of months ago right?

Originally Posted by MattyC

The election is over. This is the government we have now.

I think most people realize that.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I did.


You mean a couple of months ago right?


I think most people realize that.

Cool. I see you have no interest in discussing the actual ramifications of the current economic policy and just want to complain about people's complaints.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Cool. I see you have no interest in discussing the actual ramifications of the current economic policy and just want to complain about people's complaints.

You must be new.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Cool. I see you have no interest in discussing the actual ramifications of the current economic policy and just want to complain about people's complaints.

Wow, you came in here complaining that other people were complaining then you accuse me of the same thing. I didn't like the big deficits under Harper and I don't like them under Trudeau. Based on your history here you have no interest in governments living within their means so I don't know what you want to discuss.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well Harper ....

Two words into your post and you're already playing the blame Harper card. Well done.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Wow, you came in here complaining that other people were complaining then you accuse me of the same thing. I didn't like the big deficits under Harper and I don't like them under Trudeau. Based on your history here you have no interest in governments living within their means so I don't know what you want to discuss.

I think both of our personal positions have been thoroughly flushed out in this thread (and others). Just frustrated coming in here looking for some concrete discussion and all it is is "Your side did this 2 decades ago!" "Your side did this last decade!" "Your side sucks, mines the best!"

I guess ill just peruse through some of my old textbooks for some actual thought provoking material.

[zamler]

So what's the statute of limitations for blaming a previous government.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by zamler

So what's the statute of limitations for blaming a previous government.

If NDP, it's okay.

If Liberal, no gtfo.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by zamler

Two words into your post and you're already playing the blame Harper card. Well done.

They are totally angry about the other guy doing it, but the fact that the other guy did it means they refuse to be equally angry about their guy doing it.

And yes, Harper balancing the books last year was a total shell game.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

They are totally angry about the other guy doing it, but the fact that the other guy did it means they refuse to be equally angry about their guy doing it.

I think I've said a few times now that anyone who was expecting the Liberals to be a massively different government than the Conservatives was either completely partisan or delusional. I still firmly believe the Conservatives deserved to lose their mandate, but a lot of the policy differences between the two parties are subtle and/or illusory.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

If NDP, it's okay.

If Liberal, no gtfo.

I don't think that the NDP is getting that kind of ride anymore as much as people are rolling their eyes everytime she or anyone else in her government says it, then we take a shot.

If the NDP hadn't basically made a bungle out of nearly every action so far it might work.

At this point, Notley has just looked like a wet noodle especially when dealing with the other provinces and even with Trudeau's lack of clarity and support.

I kind of wish that we could have someone like Lougheed who recognized when it was time to pick a fight.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

Picking fights has worked wonders for this country so far...

[CaptainCrunch]

Bump, looks like the fiscal update is out.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/morn...dget-1.3458207

he Liberal government is now forecasting larger-than-expected deficits for the next two years even before adding billions in promised spending in its first budget, which will be tabled on March 22. Finance Minister Bill Morneau said Monday that the government will post a smaller than projected deficit of $2.3 billion for 2015-16, down from the $3-billion deficit projected in November's fall fiscal update.
But that deficit will balloon to $18.4 billion in 2016-17 and $15.5 billion in 2017-18 — and that is before any new spending Morneau outlines in the March budget. Those numbers are drastically different from the $3.9-billion and $2.4-billion shortfalls forecast just three months ago.

Maybe writing multi billion dollar checks to the UN was a bad idea.

Rumor is that Alberta shouldn't expect much help in the next budget besides the $300 million from the stabilization fund.