Idiots want to build gondola, conference centre and casino in Canmore

[Fuzz]

How about this...At what point do you risk ruining that which makes a place great through development? Is it not reasonable to be concerned of that? Or is it all just simplified down to blaming NIMBYism? Surly there is room for some nuance, here. Not every development is a good one.

It's also tough to level criticism of parts of the project when this is what has been provided:
https://www.silvertipvillage.com/#modern-organic-thai

I'm actually genuinely curious to see a detailed plan of where they plan to put a BMO sized conference centre, hotels, etc.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

They actually say it will double the population of Canmore. So, uhm, at what point is it to much? I think this is to much. Do we want to induce that kind of demand?

The Olympics led to the tripling of the population. Yet people that showed up after weren't upset about it.

[Fuzz]

The Olympics left a great legacy in the Nordic Centre, which is free to use(except xc-skiing) for everyone in the town. I'm going to guess the gondola won't be free, and lets face it, a Casino doesn't appeal to most of the people who live in and have moved to Canmore for the mountains and outdoor activities. I think the difference here is that the Nordic Centre is a public good, whereas this development is private, and again, the town has been burned in the past by these sorts of developments. They also say they want it built all at once, which is not the gradual growth that was seen in Canmore over the years after the Olympics.

In grade 12 we did a Social Studies project on Canmore growth, I've got a VCR tape of our project somewhere...would be interesting to see exactly what we had to say then. I remember driving around filming the town's first million dollar home, and how things were changing so fast. There was a predicted population growth chart, I believe up to 2025. I wonder how closely it matches up.

[Slava]

^ I have to imagine a conference centre would be a boon to most of the town though. Certainly restaurants, hotels and local business a stands to gain from thousands of visitors through the year.

[Fuzz]

I'm not sure they would all that much, as they are building it away from town, and want to build their own hotels/restaurants/services etc. I think they want a little Whistler village all of their own. There would be some effect, but how necessary is it? The town is quite busy as is, and suffers a lack of housing.

This plan looks to address their staff needs, which is a big plus, though they don't say if it is for 100% of their staff. I'd like to see them build staff housing for perhaps 120% of their max needs at an affordable rate. At least that would provide a benefit to something the town really needs.

One thing that they mention is that the casino is an absolutely must to make the project work. That always hits the alarm bells for me, when you rely on something like that.

[FireGilbert]

There is a proposed 10 story apartment building going up next door to my building which will take away our natural light, decrease privacy and increase traffic in the neighborhood. Should I start a thread to rant about it or can this be used as the General NIMBY Complaints Thread?

[Weitz]

Ever since my parents bought a place in Canmore I have learned that people who live in Canmore are the worst.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

How about this...At what point do you risk ruining that which makes a place great through development?

My first thought is something on the order of it expanding in size by five to tenfold? You know, where houses occupy the hills with Auburn Bay type density all the way up to the tree line for miles.

What makes Canmore a great place to everyone other than those who live in Canmore is that it is either a) a great place to go for a weekend, or b) a launching pad to the nearby Rockies. A gondola and big conference centre doesn't affect either that much. Heck it might actually improve it because it's one more thing to do over a weekend.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

My first thought is something on the order of it expanding in size by five to tenfold? You know, where houses occupy the hills with Auburn Bay type density all the way up to the tree line for miles.

What makes Canmore a great place to everyone other than those who live in Canmore is that it is either a) a great place to go for a weekend, or b) a launching pad to the nearby Rockies. A gondola and big conference centre doesn't affect either that much. Heck it might actually improve it because it's one more thing to do over a weekend.

How often do you use the existing Gondola just up the road? It certainly would affect the great place to go for a weekend. Canmore is almost as unbearable as Banff is on a Summer weekend in the town itself. A conference centre just makes that worse.

To double the population you need to rework the bridges, rail crossings and entire traffic network. The Gondola becomes an eyesore from all over the Valley. So as both a place to hang out and as a launching pad this makes it worse.

[RatherDashing]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

There is a proposed 10 story apartment building going up next door to my building which will take away our natural light, decrease privacy and increase traffic in the neighborhood. Should I start a thread to rant about it or can this be used as the General NIMBY Complaints Thread?

Do you live in a wildlife corridor?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by RatherDashing

Do you live in a wildlife corridor?

Everything was a wildlife corridor once.

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by RatherDashing

Do you live in a wildlife corridor?

Do cockroaches count as wildlife?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

My first thought is something on the order of it expanding in size by five to tenfold? You know, where houses occupy the hills with Auburn Bay type density all the way up to the tree line for miles.

What makes Canmore a great place to everyone other than those who live in Canmore is that it is either a) a great place to go for a weekend, or b) a launching pad to the nearby Rockies. A gondola and big conference centre doesn't affect either that much. Heck it might actually improve it because it's one more thing to do over a weekend.

Ok, so you want to pave over paradise. That's nice. Basically your understanding of what makes Canmore great is it's proximity to Calgary? Filling the whole valley would destroy a lot of the natural beauty, the hiking and biking trails lower down, and wildlife access, along with bringing massive traffic issues.

Essentially what you are also saying is that Canmore is for people from Calgary to have a somewhere to go for the weekend. Should the people who live there, have made it there home, not also have a say in how it is developed? Or should they stop complaining and deal with it, because Calgary?

Maybe I'd like you to put a big patio in your yard with speakers. A pool would be sweet too. My friends and I will come by, oh, once a month or so and have a party. Don't worry, we'll buy food and beer from you, but you are not aloud to complain about the noise, or all the people that show up. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal, right? Or are you a NIMBY about that idea?

[RatherDashing]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Everything was a wildlife corridor once.

Canmore sits smack in the middle of a pretty major corridor connecting the national parks to Kananaskis country. Pushing development up against Lady Mac just acts to further tighten the corridor. If they cut it off entirely, it will have a pretty major impact on the health of wildlife in the mountain parks.

This link contains a decent (though low res) map showing movement in the area.

http://www.wildsmart.ca/programs/wildlife_corridors.htm

[EldrickOnIce]

Pic is a good example why all hikers/bikers should be banned from ruining our natural landscapes.
Even just considering the erosion resulting from so called nature enthusiasts destroying natural water flows is horrible and should be halted immediately.
If only there was some way to use cables to transport people above the ground so the natural habitat wasn't ruined by those walking or biking on it.

[RatherDashing]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Pic is a good example why all hikers/bikers should be banned from ruining our natural landscapes.
Even just considering the erosion resulting from so called nature enthusiasts destroying natural water flows is horrible and should be halted immediately.
If only there was some way to use cables to transport people above the ground so the natural habitat wasn't ruined by those walking or biking on it.

Not sure if this was directed at me, but just to clarify, I was thinking more about the conference centre and casino infringing than the gondola. I don't know how much impact a gondola would have on wildlife movement, presumably that is something that will be addressed in their environmental impact assessment.

[Fuzz]

Other than the Lady Mac trail, they have completely closed down all activity on the upper bench above the golf course. It seams crazy that they would allow a gondola to go through that now, when one small trail was considered too much impact.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ok, so you want to pave over paradise. That's nice. Basically your understanding of what makes Canmore great is it's proximity to Calgary? Filling the whole valley would destroy a lot of the natural beauty, the hiking and biking trails lower down, and wildlife access, along with bringing massive traffic issues.

Essentially what you are also saying is that Canmore is for people from Calgary to have a somewhere to go for the weekend. Should the people who live there, have made it there home, not also have a say in how it is developed? Or should they stop complaining and deal with it, because Calgary?

Maybe I'd like you to put a big patio in your yard with speakers. A pool would be sweet too. My friends and I will come by, oh, once a month or so and have a party. Don't worry, we'll buy food and beer from you, but you are not aloud to complain about the noise, or all the people that show up. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal, right? Or are you a NIMBY about that idea?

I have my concerns regarding a convention centre/casino in Canmore as well, but your analogy isn't fair. It should be "my neighbor, who owns his property wants to put in a pool with speakers", blah blah blah. Assuming that neighbor goes through the proper permitting, yeah it is exactly NIMBYism that you are relying on.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Maybe I'd like you to put a big patio in your yard with speakers. A pool would be sweet too. My friends and I will come by, oh, once a month or so and have a party. Don't worry, we'll buy food and beer from you, but you are not aloud to complain about the noise, or all the people that show up. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal, right? Or are you a NIMBY about that idea?

The problem is, most people own their backyard, you don't own Canmore, thus the same rules don't apply.

A more accurate hypothetical would be to say you're a squatter on a tiny section of a giant piece of land and another squatter comes and says "Hey, this is a great spot, I think I'll squat here too" and makes their own little spot near yours.

Sure, you can make a stink about it, but you both share about equal rights.

If you want to protect the land, Canmore residents should pony up the cash and protect the land.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ok, so you want to pave over paradise. That's nice.

No, I think paving over paradise is exactly what would ruin what makes Canmore great. My uneducated gut suggestion was that the "paving over paradise" threshold would be crossed somewhere around a 5x-10x expansion (much closer to 5x on further thought).

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Basically your understanding of what makes Canmore great is it's proximity to Calgary?

What makes Canmore great is its beautiful location, pristine setting and proximity to the rest of the mountains. What makes it valuable, however, is tourism and its proximity to Calgary. Canmore's development trajectory over the past 30 years (a window inside of which you moved there) would support this value proposition.
edit: I retract the FU assertion that Fuzz is part of the problem by moving there. He was born there.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Essentially what you are also saying is that Canmore is for people from Calgary to have a somewhere to go for the weekend. Should the people who live there, have made it there home, not also have a say in how it is developed? Or should they stop complaining and deal with it, because Calgary?

Not 100%. It is also a community for people who live there. That's why I absolutely think you should have a say in how its developed. However, again, its primary value is tourism and as a place for people from Calgary to go for the weekend. That's why I absolutely think people from outside Canmore are allowed to chime in on their opinions regarding this development and respond to hyperbole like "Idiots want to build gondola, conference centre and casino in Canmore".

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Maybe I'd like you to put a big patio in your yard with speakers. A pool would be sweet too. My friends and I will come by, oh, once a month or so and have a party. Don't worry, we'll buy food and beer from you, but you are not aloud to complain about the noise, or all the people that show up. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal, right? Or are you a NIMBY about that idea?

I own my yard, so no you can't do that. That's not NIMBYism. But if you want to do it next door then I'll make sure you follow all proper permits and noise bylaws. Outside of that I'd probably just NIMBY complain and debate you about why your development is worth my troubles.