[GDT] Flames vs Stars - 6:30 - SNet-Cgy

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I guess you should look up the dictionary definition of calm, because you seem to be reacting more than I am.

I'm sure most fans would prefer he be in the lineup. I know I do but it's game 10 of an 82 game season. There are going to be a lot of ups and downs. No point in getting overly excited at this news unless it becomes a constant then maybe we can start discussing whether he should be sent down to the Heat. Until then it's just one game. Hopefully he takes it well and puts in some extra work. He hasn't looked too bad as of late but in the eyes of the coach right now he's not doing enough.

[Makarov]

After suffering through debacles like the Gilbert-Savard fiasco, I don't think you can blame the fan base for being a little paranoid.

[Puddy27]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

How many of the small players around the league (sub 5'9") are successful because of their defensive games? How many of them even have defensive games?

I love St. Louis but it would be a stretch to say he's anything close to even an average defensive forward.

I'm surprised anyone would disagree with this.

Pavel Datsyuk says hello.

[Kaine]

Strongly disagree with Baertchi's benching as I think he's taken big strides this year in his complete game but that's why I'm not paid the big bucks to make these decisions.

What I have a hard time letting slide is not the fact that Sven is sitting, it's the fact that he is sitting "due to lack of effort" while guys like Glencross, Jackman and Butler that have been inconsistent (or consistently bad if you want to get technical) continue to be given ice. Seems like a silly message to me, allowing the vets to get away with half-a**ed efforts while the young kid gets singled out.

/shrug

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by Puddy27

Pavel Datsyuk says hello.

Ok, the most complete and one of the, if not arguably the most talented player in the game is one. Name a few more. I'm pretty sure that the point he was tying to make is that not all successful young offensive forwards are all that well rounded definitively and yet still do fine at the NHL level.

[UKflames]

I think fans are right to over react to this decision, it may only be one game but you can hardly call it deserved. The kid got called out by the Dinosaur and he responds by playing a 200 foot game every game imo. He puts in the effort to back check, work on his board battles and to protect the puck plus everyone says what great chemistry he is building with Monahan, assisting on 3 of his 6 goals. I would hate to see what happened if he had not done any of that.

I am still of the opinion that the Dinosaur (Burke) doesn't like him and he will be sending him packing.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Makarov

After suffering through debacles like the Gilbert-Savard fiasco, I don't think you can blame the fan base for being a little paranoid.

I don't think this is remotely close to that. Gilbert was losing the room and self destructing.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Puddy27

Pavel Datsyuk says hello.

You mean 5'11" Pavel Datsyuk?

And even then, Pavel Datsyuk is such an anomaly in this league I shouldn't even have to mention.

[HartAttack]

@ Ashasx

I'm just curious how much time you've spent today writing all these insane, rambling messages, hoping to get an army behind you to throw a coup over the Flames organization for Sven's benching today.

I saw the benching on twitter, and noticed that you were replying to everyone in Calgary media posting about it, then I come on here to see the explosion of messages from you flooding this thread.

Do you even work bro?

Find a hobby.

[Dorkmaster]

You don't have to be big to be in good position to intercept passes, put pressure on forwards by backchecking or winning battles for loose pucks using your stick.

You don't have to hit, dump every puck and fumble every pass to be a good defensive player. More about effort, willingness and ability to read the plays.

There's a reason why Datsyuk is one of the best without being the biggest guy out there.

[Puddy27]

Originally Posted by Kaine

Ok, the most complete and one of the, if not arguably the most talented player in the game is one. Name a few more.

I didn't say it's a benefit to be smaller. He made a statement I disagreed with. He said he CAN'T become a defensive forward because of his size. I provided one and only one example to completely discredit his statement. I feel no need to do any research because I dont really care.

Man, touchy lol.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Kaine

Strongly disagree with Baertchi's benching as I think he's taken big strides this year in his complete game but that's why I'm not paid the big bucks to make these decisions.

What I have a hard time letting slide is not the fact that Sven is sitting, it's the fact that he is sitting "due to lack of effort" while guys like Glencross, Jackman and Butler that have been inconsistent (or consistently bad if you want to get technical) continue to be given ice. Seems like a silly message to me, allowing the vets to get away with half-a**ed efforts while the young kid gets singled out.

/shrug

I actually think that I would rather Sven sit than play in Jackman's spot on the 4th line. I'm of the opinion when you play skilled young players too long on the 4th line they become bottom 6 players.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Gaudreau's not even on this team yet and he's constantly mentioning that he wants to be a better defensive player.

So does Baertschi. Not sure about this move. Something must be up. He's certainly not the most obvious player out for Stajan

[Table 5]

I don't think its hysteria to question the coaches decision on this one. I think at the end of the day, with all the meritocracy talk, it just doesn't seem justified. Sven has perhaps not been scoring as much as one would think, but I think he's being playing great. His line with Monahan has often been the best one....and I think a lot of that is because of Sven.

And I could understand this more, if the same barometer was applied to the rest of the team. Glencross should've been benched by now. So should have Butler. Hell, Brodie has had some terrible games too.

I like Hartley...but personally I hate how's dealt with Sven right from the start. I don't think Sven will ever be Brendan Gallagher. I think they are totally different types of players.

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by HartAttack

@ Ashasx

I'm just curious how much time you've spent today writing all these insane, rambling messages, hoping to get an army behind you to throw a coup over the Flames organization for Sven's benching today.

I saw the benching on twitter, and noticed that you were replying to everyone in Calgary media posting about it, then I come on here to see the explosion of messages from you flooding this thread.

Do you even work bro?

Find a hobby.

Like calling out other posters in a thread, adding nothing to the conversation? Take it to tells as what you just posted is against the forums TOS if I'm not mistaken and I'm pretty sure nobody wants to hear it. I'd hate to report someone for something so silly.

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I actually think that I would rather Sven sit than play in Jackman's spot on the 4th line. I'm of the opinion when you play skilled young players too long on the 4th line they become bottom 6 players.

I see no reason to separate him from Sean after all the chemistry they are building, but that's another argument all together. As I said, I find it baffling that Sven is sitting at all.

[Dorkmaster]

Originally Posted by Kaine

Ok, the most complete and one of the, if not arguably the most talented player in the game is one. Name a few more. I'm pretty sure that the point he was tying to make is that not all successful young offensive forwards are all that well rounded definitively and yet still do fine at the NHL level.

You might not be as good as Datsyuk but I sure hope that you'd be at least trying to be. Being ok with your play will just lead to stagnation in your development. Plus being better defensively means that you play more minutes and probably are playing more in the offensive zone because you're turning the puck up the ice.

[D-Red]

Definitely not a fan of this move, but it's one game for now, not going to lose my mind.

Having said that, the biggest thing that erks me about this is Jackman drawing in. I've never been a Jackman hater, in fact probably more on the other side. His play this season though has been brutal. Top that off with him taking boneheaded penalties that are hurting the team. I have seen nothing in the two games that warrants a spot. You learn early hardworking mistakes are acceptable, ones like he are talking reserve you a spot upstairs.

I would even prefer playing Sven, and keeping him on a short leash. As Hells Bells mentioned go with a 4th of Bouma Colborne Galiardi. If Sven still doesn't show what you want, park him. Rotate wingers through the 4th line. A period or two of 4th line shifts between 3 wingers isn't going to kill you. Happened when Jackman threw a spear anyway.

[MisterJoji]

Some of these posts are pure gold. There's nothing wrong with holding Sven accountable. I can see some disappointment with the decision, but he hasn't exactly lit it up lately, he's been okay. Maybe Hartley want more than "okay" out of him. I agree his defensive play has improved lately, but I really don't see it as the end of the world for him to watch a game from the pressbox. You know what team has never held their young guys accountable (up until a few days ago)? Edmonton. Seems to be working well for those guys.

As far as Glencross, I'll agree he probably deserves to sit more than Sven, but historically he has been very streaky, and has generally been one of our best offensive weapons. We need him to start scoring again and whether sitting him would accomplish that or you just have to let him play through this funk is up to the professionals. It's easy to be an arm chair GM but I think I'll go with the guys who have more of a view of the team than from up in the peanut gallery.

Finally, I can't believe some people are disappointed about Stajan returning because it bumped Sven out of the line up. This isn't Brent Sutter's Stajan coming back. The Glencross - Stajan - Stempniak line was our best last year and Stajan is our only Center who can consistently win draws.

I get that some people would rather get rid of Cammy, Stajan, Butler, etc. so that Reinhart, Knight, Hanowski, Sieloff, etc. get some NHL ice time, but that is recipe for disaster and the mantra this year is to be a hard working team and not accept losing, despite expectations from all the experts that this is a 30th place team. It's always nice to see some of our prospects play but having Cammy and Stajan in the line up gives us a much better chance to win than Reinhart and Hanowski would.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by indes

I just hope Baertschi doesn't become the next Backlund where they basically develop him to be a defensive player and then just say he never had the offensive potential.

I really don't see that being the case at all. Backlund never had anywhere near the offensive ability of Sven at any level he played at. Management didn't ruin his offense, it was just hugely overrated by a lot of people.