Most Albertans overweight or obese: report

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah, this is sort of what I was doing when I was living alone and it helped me get into the best shape of my life a couple years ago. Granted I was also exercising like crazy 5 days/week. A big thing for me was not keeping junk food in the house. I'm one of those people who eats when they're bored, and with having ADHD, I get bored pretty easily. When I lived alone I would walk to the fridge or the cupboards and see that there was nothing there and then go find something else to do. A lot of it was just the mental/ritual aspect of getting up and going to the kitchen and that would leave me satisfied. Now I live with someone who constantly keeps the house packed with crap and it's a lot harder to not grab something when I go in there, so I have to find other things to keep my mind preoccupied.

My wife is a former ballet dancer, and is a) genetically advantaged with a high metabolism and b) has enormous butt and and thigh muscles that demand to be fed.

Her daily calorie intake is probably 20% higher than mine. For me, same thing. Living alone I was in excellent shape. Biked 20 km a day, did about 100 pushups. You know, barely managed to attain the body that might attract a former ballet dancer.

Moving forward to now. Much happier, much fatter. Good thing she doesn't care.

[Hevishot]

For Peter 12.

[The Yen Man]

Man, you guys must either have really crappy work environments, or I have it good. People at my office bring in snacks all the time, but there's no pressure to eat it if we choose not to.

For the past 3 months, I've totally revamped my diet to to try to eat healthier, and I've turned down almost all snacks from work, be it cupcakes, chips, donuts, samosas, etc. No one gives me a hard time about it at all.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I often tell obese people that if they are not ready to take on another full time job, don't bother losing the weight. If you can't spare 35 hours a week to maintaining your weight, it ain't gonna happen. It IS a full time job for me. Thor posted the message I put on his Facebook page where I said that some days it feels like it is taking 100% of my focus and effort. One of my favorite blogs is www.justmaintaining.com and the blogger, Debra, talks about weight maintenance as a full time job. The trick is to make it a job that you enjoy.

I guess what I don't understand is why it wasn't a full-time job for your grandfather (presumably) not to be obese, or for most of the billion plus people living in China today.

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Those that have never lost 100+ pounds don't know how hard it is. They don't see the struggle. "They just have to choose to be healthy and just do the work". I think people are deliberately ignorant because then they can no longer blame the obese for their disease.

Just as I'm sure those who have never quit a VLT gambling addiction don't know how hard it is. And yet we don't have a lot of compassion, as a society, for people who blow half their paycheque sitting at a VLT on payday. We don't treat overweight people any worse. The fact is that people who aren't addicted to VLTs (or overeating, or racking up credit card debt, or smoking weed) find it hard to imagine those habits taking over your life. A pretty large proportion of people have some habit that negatively impacts their life. I suppose we should consider that and try to be more empathetic to other people's habits. But still recognize that, hey, even if I'm obese and I should have empathy with the struggles of chronic pot-head, being a chronic pot-head isn't a good thing and it's okay to tell that to the chronic pot-head.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

My wife is a former ballet dancer, and is a) genetically advantaged with a high metabolism and b) has enormous butt and and thigh muscles that demand to be fed.

Her daily calorie intake is probably 20% higher than mine. For me, same thing. Living alone I was in excellent shape. Biked 20 km a day, did about 100 pushups. You know, barely managed to attain the body that might attract a former ballet dancer.

Moving forward to now. Much happier, much fatter. Good thing she doesn't care.

Mine's a lazy couch potato but only weighs about 90 lbs, so it's hard to convince her to keep healthy things in the house because she's been eating crap for most of her life, with zero consequences.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I guess what I don't understand is why it wasn't a full-time job for your grandfather (presumably) not to be obese, or for most of the billion plus people living in China today.

I would start with the BBC 3 part series I linked to above. If you are unsure as to why the 2 billion in China are not obese, well the simple answer is poverty and poverty.

Just as I'm sure those who have never quit a VLT gambling addiction don't know how hard it is. And yet we don't have a lot of compassion, as a society, for people who blow half their paycheque sitting at a VLT on payday. We don't treat overweight people any worse.

This is not true, how can I tell if you had or have a VLT addiction problem? Do you wear a t-shirt? But you can certainly tell if someone has a weight problem, even if you don't know why. I for example have been involved since Biggest Loser with lots of obese people and their problems, some of the major triggers for their weight problems>

• Childhood sexual abuse
• Bullying
• Abandonment by father after mother died
• Drug addiction
• Abusive husband

The fact is that people who aren't addicted to VLTs (or overeating, or racking up credit card debt, or smoking weed) find it hard to imagine those habits taking over your life.

That is truly one of the biggest issues, and what we are lacking, education on the subject of why people are overweight, well more accurately why they are obese. I said before empathy should be a starting point, however judgmental behavior is always leading the charge.

A pretty large proportion of people have some habit that negatively impacts their life. I suppose we should consider that and try to be more empathetic to other people's habits. But still recognize that, hey, even if I'm obese and I should have empathy with the struggles of chronic pot-head, being a chronic pot-head isn't a good thing and it's okay to tell that to the chronic pot-head.

Interesting you would compare those two. One, a chronic pot head has some health effects, no doubt. But it is quite fashionable, even cool. If you are someone who has massive problems smoking too much and it is effecting your life, you can hide that from the world quite easily.

But obese people? Nope, not only is it not cool to be obese, its treated pretty much universally as the person being lazy, dumb, has no self control, etc..

This while a massive part of our society has some detrimental problems and addictions, that can be hidden from society while obesity cannot and there for is judged and mocked.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by peter12

So a great, great way to make scrambled eggs is this...

When you pour them into the frying pan, pour them through a mesh strainer.

Makes them so much fluffier.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Thor

One question I have for Torque, how long were you obese for, were you obese during childhood? How much total weight did you lose and how long have you kept it off for.

Good job on that by the way, never easy.

Torque, when you can, answer this please.

[Thor]

I still can't believe that Torque's post not only has had 7 likes, but gained one since myself and a few others started to respond.

This, is frustrating and part of the problem.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Thor

I would start with the BBC 3 part series I linked to above. If you are unsure as to why the 2 billion in China are not obese, well the simple answer is poverty and poverty.

Switzerland isn't poor, but it has a far lower incidence of obesity than the U.S. And in fact, the poorest Americans are the ones most likely to be obese. Cultural norms play a big part. When people sit down and eat regular meals with family and friends, and massive portion sizes are not the norm, they are less likely to overeat than in cultures where people eat a lot of fast food by themselves, heap enormous portions on their plate, and snack alone in the evenings.

Originally Posted by Thor

This is not true, how can I tell if you had or have a VLT addiction problem? Do you wear a t-shirt? But you can certainly tell if someone has a weight problem, even if you don't know why.

Fair enough. Obesity can be seen and judged by everyone, and I suppose that's different from a lot of other self-damaging behaviours.

Originally Posted by Thor

I for example have been involved since Biggest Loser with lots of obese people and their problems, some of the major triggers for their weight problems>

I suspect we'd find that those triggers are also common among drug addicts, alcoholics, gambling addicts, etc. People have different ways of coping with unhappiness.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Thor

I still can't believe that Torque's post not only has had 7 likes, but gained one since myself and a few others started to respond.

This, is frustrating and part of the problem.

At least for myself, I thanked the post because a lot of it is correct as far as calorie intake, myths about certain foods, and what not.

The fat shaming part I don't necessarily agree with, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, I think it's easy for people who have lost a significant amount of weight but were not 100+ lbs overweight to look at morbidly obese people in that light. I can say I used to be that way too. I would think, "man, how can someone even get to that point? You literally have to do nothing. My walks to and from work every day alone probably keep me from becoming even close to that."

But as you and DA have very astutely put, there are so many factors at play when it comes to obesity that there's not one answer for everyone. As someone who has regressed part way from my weight loss, I really can see the difficulty in it now. When I was losing, I literally did not have the money to spend on going out and having restaurant food, or having fast food a few times/week. Now that this has changed, whatever it is inside me that craves sugars and breads can be satisfied by my wallet.

But as I said before, people who have lost <50 lbs, in order to be at a healthy weight is an entirely different issue than those that are in 100+ range. That level of obesity is likely more often about psychological and medical issues than it is about just getting off your butt and eating right, like it is for those in overweight category.

Mostly, I just appreciate people sharing their stories.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Switzerland isn't poor, but it has a far lower incidence of obesity than the U.S. And in fact, the poorest Americans are the ones most likely to be obese. Cultural norms play a big part.

Terrible example though dude, you should compare the US to Canada, to the UK, not little Switzerland. I have friends who live there, and believe me, its isolated in most of the regions, its a lot of walking, hiking up steep inclines, and very few people own cars.

The reason why most poor Americans are so obese is covered in the BBC series, the men who made us fat.. lol. sorry to keep harping on it, but your answers are there. Jamie Oliver has also done lots of work on this, we create cheap high calorie food without much nutrient value, it has a serious outcome.

When people sit down and eat regular meals with family and friends, and massive portion sizes are not the norm, they are less likely to overeat than in cultures where people eat a lot of fast food by themselves, heap enormous portions on their plate, and snack alone in the evenings.

Again it seems to be you think this is unique only to the US, but the increasing portion size in restaurants and fast food joints world wide has an impact on the home meal. But because we have to work more, spend less time with family and have less time to spend on food and spend time on cooking meals, this again has a massive impact on health outcomes. Again how obesity is just not about willpower, but the society we now have, imagine the 50's where the man was working, wife was at home and we had plenty of time for vacations, family time, home cooked meals.

Fair enough. Obesity can be seen and judged by everyone, and I suppose that's different from a lot of other self-damaging behaviours.

Glad I reached you, now just a few billion to go!

I suspect we'd find that those triggers are also common among drug addicts, alcoholics, gambling addicts, etc. People have different ways of coping with unhappiness.

Right, but unlike all those, you can't quit food. The best example I ever heard during a food addiction group meeting was a guy who said:

"You would never tell an alcoholic, only have a few sips of beer a week, or a gambler only bet a few dollars a week... and expect anything but utter failure. So stop comparing them to obesity and eating problems, because no matter how hard it is quitting heroin, you can quit it, you can't quit food, you have to manage and live with it for the rest of your life.."

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by MattyC

At least for myself, I thanked the post because a lot of it is correct as far as calorie intake, myths about certain foods, and what not.

The fat shaming part I don't necessarily agree with, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, I think it's easy for people who have lost a significant amount of weight but were not 100+ lbs overweight to look at morbidly obese people in that light. I can say I used to be that way too. I would think, "man, how can someone even get to that point? You literally have to do nothing. My walks to and from work every day alone probably keep me from becoming even close to that."

But as you and DA have very astutely put, there are so many factors at play when it comes to obesity that there's not one answer for everyone. As someone who has regressed part way from my weight loss, I really can see the difficulty in it now. When I was losing, I literally did not have the money to spend on going out and having restaurant food, or having fast food a few times/week. Now that this has changed, whatever it is inside me that craves sugars and breads can be satisfied by my wallet.

But as I said before, people who have lost <50 lbs, in order to be at a healthy weight is an entirely different issue than those that are in 100+ range. That level of obesity is likely more often about psychological and medical issues than it is about just getting off your butt and eating right, like it is for those in overweight category.

Mostly, I just appreciate people sharing their stories.

Pretty much this, and I still believe the basic thrust of the post is correct, regardless of his experience.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

Im posting this news here for now and will comment later when I have more time. I will try to be helpful. Im hoping this doesn't turn into a discussion about the validity of BMI as there are people who need help and arguing about BMI being invalid for bodybuilders doesn't help anyone.

I know you weren't wanting this, but I do think it's somewhat important to the discussion, particularly for people who are considered "normal" or "underweight by BMI standards.

http://healthland.time.com/2013/08/2...ght-or-health/

But in recent years, more researchers argue that it’s not the most accurate way to measure body weight. For years, scientists have said that BMI can’t distinguish between fat and muscle, which tends to be heavier and can tip more toned individuals into overweight status, even if their fat levels are low. In the journal Science, the latest data from University of Pennsylvania shows that BMI also doesn’t tease apart different types of fat, each of which can have different metabolic effects on health. BMI cannot take into consideration, for example, where the body holds fat. Belly fat, which is known as visceral fat, is more harmful than fat that simply sitting under the skin. Visceral fat develops deep among muscles and around organs like the liver and by releasing certain hormones and other agents, it disrupts the body’s ability to balance its energy needs. Even relatively thin people can have high levels of visceral fat, which means they might be considered healthy by BMI standards, but internally they may actually be at higher risk of developing health problems related to weigh gain.

In April of last year, a study published in the journal PLoS One documented such inconsistencies and questioned the accuracy of using BMI to classify weight status of 1,400 men and women. As TIME reported:

Among the study participants, about half of women who were not classified as obese according to their BMI actually were obese when their body fat percentage was taken into account. Among the men, in contrast, about a quarter of obese men had been missed by BMI. Further, a quarter who were categorized as obese by BMI were not considered obese based on their body fat percentage. Overall, about 39% of participants who were classified as overweight by their BMI were actually obese, according to their percent body fat.

[Thor]

Fine, then let me get into the specifics, the last part really don't need a response I hope the rest of you agree.

North America's biggest problem with food is our lack of education on the subject. GMOs are not poisoning us. Wheat is not a toxin that is making you fat, and gluten isn't evil (unless you suffer from celiac.) Fatty foods are not harmful in and of themselves.

Truth.

It's about how you eat. We just don't understand the caloric density of our meals. We don't understand macronutrients. Restaurants, though they are starting to provide nutritional info about their meals, don't help with the fact that a single meal can deliver 1,100 calories. That is INSANE. That is roughly half of what an average male who exercises minimally will require for the day to maintain a healthy weight.

Great point, I have a book from the 90s, one of Clinton's Czars on food, health, wrote an expose book back then blasting the food industry on its manipulation of ingredients to create hyper stimulating food, to create a come back for more consumer while fast food joints were becoming more honest about their ingredients, restaurants who are much worse than McDonalds or Burger King continued to offer hyper stimulating food with ridiculous caloric counts....

On average, people are eating more calories than they are expending in a day. You can lose weight on goddamned McDonalds if you keep your intake reasonable-- in fact, you could stay at a 2,000 calorie diet with decent protein intake for ~$12 USD a day in the United States (using value menu items and subbing water for pop).

With all things being equal sure, if weight loss was simply calorie in, calorie out. However this is part of the solution, and a minor part, a VERY minor part.

So when I see this report saying the majority of Albertans are overweight or worse, I believe it (hell, there were some horrendously fat people at Stampede).

Glad you let us know you saw some disgusting fat people.

We don't know #### about eating properly, and a lot of people are too lazy to take the time to learn about it.

So many insults and rude comments I want to say, but I won't play your game. "Too lazy to take the time to learn about it..." Wooooow, besides your many stupid comments, this is pretty rich. We have a massive marketing machine that tells you, don't eat carbs, eat carbs! Don't eat fats, EAT FATS! Don't eat gluten, eat a rich high grain diet!

The MASSIVE amount of conflicting information has been on the top discussions in world wide nutrition conferences, as the few scientists in this world try to combat the flood of nonsense being spread by business and common people who don't have a clue what they are talking about.

And because the Canadian food guide is a joke, our children don't get to learn about it either.

The food guide is a joke. This we can agree on. But its a tip of the iceberg with the issues we face, maybe you can go around elementary schools and shame the fat kids into getting in shape, as you have suggested we need to do.

And don't get me started on the idiot fat acceptance movement who suggest that you can be fat and healthy

Actually, while there are some ridiculous obese people who say they are healthy, the vast majority of this movement is about the science, the science says clearly that overweight people can not only be healthy, but live longer lives if they keep somewhat active and eat sensible. Again the body type has often less to say about health than judgmental jerks like you do, science bitch!

that defies EVERYTHING we know about the human body. That's like saying running your motor at redline constantly is fine because it hasn't blown up yet.

Its clear you have never been obese. I don't know why I even asked. Your comments are indicative of what me and devils advocate were talking about earlier. He had a group set up to help people with weight problems, in the first meeting a person shows up who lost 30 pounds, someone in their mid 30s who had never been obese, never dealt with long term obesity.

That person said "its not hard guys, you work out, eat right, and you lose weight..." DA disbanded the group as most of the people agreed and were in similar positions.

I even asked my friend Kai from Biggest Loser USA who has been all over the news to read this thread, her comments on your post where simply "Somebody's self loathing is showing" .... and then "There is no chance this guy has ever dealt with obesity, he's a guy who lost 10, 20, 30 pounds and felt like he could then judge everyone else assuming that his own experience is how all people deal with weight issues, don't waste your time."

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Thor

Its clear you have never been obese. I don't know why I even asked. Your comments are indicative of what me and devils advocate were talking about earlier. He had a group set up to help people with weight problems, in the first meeting a person shows up who lost 30 pounds, someone in their mid 30s who had never been obese, never dealt with long term obesity.

That person said "its not hard guys, you work out, eat right, and you lose weight..." DA disbanded the group as most of the people agreed and were in similar positions.

I even asked my friend Kai from Biggest Loser USA who has been all over the news to read this thread, her comments on your post where simply "Somebody's self loathing is showing" .... and then "There is no chance this guy has ever dealt with obesity, he's a guy who lost 10, 20, 30 pounds and felt like he could then judge everyone else assuming that his own experience is how all people deal with weight issues, don't waste your time."

I think all of your stuff in this thread has been great, Thor. But this kind of irked me a bit as someone who was in that category (although I was in the 50 lb range). I understand you and DA are working to combat obesity and the myths surrounding it, but this thread is specifically referencing the fact that those people you and your friend referred to may be more into the overweight category than they thought, even after dropping those lbs. It's certainly what piqued my interest in the thread. Torque might have the wrong attitude behind his approach, but it seems odd to me that you would discount those people who maybe weren't in your desired category, but obviously felt they needed the support anyway.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I think all of your stuff in this thread has been great, Thor. But this kind of irked me a bit as someone who was in that category (although I was in the 50 lb range). I understand you and DA are working to combat obesity and the myths surrounding it, but this thread is specifically referencing the fact that those people you and your friend referred to may be more into the overweight category than they thought, even after dropping those lbs. It's certainly what piqued my interest in the thread. Torque might have the wrong attitude behind his approach, but it seems odd to me that you would discount those people who maybe weren't in your desired category, but obviously felt they needed the support anyway.

When I read that part of Thor's post, I kept thinking of the scene in Half-Baked where Dave Chappelle goes to the drug-support group and talks about how he was addicted to marijuana and gets summarily booed and thrown out.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I think all of your stuff in this thread has been great, Thor. But this kind of irked me a bit as someone who was in that category (although I was in the 50 lb range).

I understand you and DA are working to combat obesity and the myths surrounding it, but this thread is specifically referencing the fact that those people you and your friend referred to may be more into the overweight category than they thought, even after dropping those lbs.

It's certainly what piqued my interest in the thread. Torque might have the wrong attitude behind his approach, but it seems odd to me that you would discount those people who maybe weren't in your desired category, but obviously felt they needed the support anyway.

I never discounted the struggle of those not obese. In fact most of the people I deal with, family, friends, coworkers are those struggling with non obese issues, they have spent countless amounts of money and effort with diets, gym memberships and anything they think might help them finally get to their "ideal weight..."

Again it goes to what I said earlier, that the longer you have had a weight issue, say you have had 20 pounds too much for 5 years.. Your body will fight HARD to bring you back to that, when you lose that weight, and not just that, but gain more than your original weight.

The only difference, science wise, is that obese people have a 1-2% success rate, while those with less than obese problems, "overweight" have vastly more successful statistics.

Hope that clears this up.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Mine's a lazy couch potato but only weighs about 90 lbs, so it's hard to convince her to keep healthy things in the house because she's been eating crap for most of her life, with zero consequences.

There's almost always consequences. Weight is just one indicator of health. I learned that the hard way. I'm one of those guys who can eat and not gain a lot of weight. So even though I'm not overweight by BMI standards, last annual check up, I found out I'm high blood pressure.

[CliffFletcher]

Eating out so much is a huge part of the calories problem. If you make your own lunch, you'll probably have a sandwich and an apple. Maybe some leftover pasta. The typical lunch at a food court has twice the calories.

People not bothering to prepare their own food is a big problem. Yes, it's a hassle. But so is doing laundry, vacuuming, and getting your hair cut every once in a while. Yes, it's easier to buy fast food. But I don't buy the notion that if something is easy, we should expect everyone will do it and forego judging anyone for it. Getting credit cards is easy. Should we just shrug it off if everyone goes bankrupt? Self-discipline isn't the only solution, but it has to be part of the solution. I worry that we'll abandon the very notion of self-discipline as unrealistic and assume that everyone will behave as irresponsible teenagers for their entire lives.