Use of Native American Imagery in Sports

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What school was that? Wisewood?

Fowler Falcons forever, dude.

Yeah, Wisewood. My junior high team name was cool too - the Milton Williams Marauders.

Friends who went to Louis Riel didn't like being called the Bisons, so they petitioned the principal to change the name to the Louis Riel Rebels. He kiboshed the idea, saying they didn't want the school to be association with rebellion...

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yeah, Wisewood. My junior high team name was cool too - the Milton Williams Marauders.



Friends who went to Louis Riel didn't like being called the Bisons, so they petitioned the principal to change the name to the Louis Riel Rebels. He kiboshed the idea, saying they didn't want the school to be association with rebellion...

I think my mom went to Wisewood.

My Juniour High School was the Dr. Gordon Higgins HUSTLERS.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Flamenspiel]

Regardless of the history of racism with the franchise, I think that in the end the resistance from the team was primarily concerns around marketing. The team was intrinsically tied into their traditional identity and as i remember that for the longest time that when the Giants were a bad team it was always the Dallas-Washington rivalry and the Cowboys/Indians theme that accompanied the rivalry.

i also think the failure in marketing of removing the Bullets name also made them worried about a change.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Regardless of the history of racism with the franchise, I think that in the end the resistance from the team was primarily concerns around marketing. The team was intrinsically tied into their traditional identity and as i remember that for the longest time that when the Giants were a bad team it was always the Dallas-Washington rivalry and the Cowboys/Indians theme that accompanied the rivalry.

i also think the failure in marketing of removing the Bullets name also made them worried about a change.

I also think it's because Snyder grew up as a fan of the franchise, if I became owner of the Flames, I wouldn't want to change their identity either

[David Struch]

There is no polite way to suggest to someone that they have devoted their life to a folly.
- Daniel Dennett

[blankall]

They just need to drop the "red" from the name entirely IMO and distance themselves from this. Nothing wrong with the colours, but keeping the "red" in the new name is too much of a link with what was wrong with the previous name.

[GIODUDE]

I think a double standard in this thread is that a whole mess of people here have fully typed out an array of offensive terms to certain groups of people but I have yet to see someone fully type out a certain word that starts with "N". Just an observation.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GIODUDE

I think a double standard in this thread is that a whole mess of people here have fully typed out an array of offensive terms to certain groups of people but I have yet to see someone fully type out a certain word that starts with "N". Just an observation.

That's not really a double-standard and I'm not sure what the point of your observation is.

The "n" word is also censored, so you'd never actually know and there's not much point in typing out a censored word.

After all, saying ###### is a ####ing #### move that makes you look like a ####ing racist piece of #### and a dumb ##### regardless of any context.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Yeah that's a weird point to make. I don't get it.

[GIODUDE]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

That's not really a double-standard and I'm not sure what the point of your observation is.

The "n" word is also censored, so you'd never actually know and there's not much point in typing out a censored word.

After all, saying ###### is a ####ing #### move that makes you look like a ####ing racist piece of #### and a dumb ##### regardless of any context.

I am mostly curious as to why some slurs are more offensive than others. I am no way advocating that we be allowed to say it. I am not one of those, "well they say it so I should be allowed to say it" Just simply wondering why some slurs are allowed to be uttered and others not. Who decides?

[TheScorpion]

The n-word is a slur that was used to dehumanize a race deemed as "subhuman" and "uncivilized" for generations. Black people using it is seen as them reclaiming a word used as a weapon by their oppressors. White people using it is seen as evocative of the aggressively inequitable culture propagated by the era of slavery.

In short, if you're white, you don't get to ####ing say it.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Western High School changed from Redmen to Redhawks in 2014.

yeah both my high school and university teams were nicknamed Redmen while I was a student. they are now Redhawks and "Team" respectively

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GIODUDE

I am mostly curious as to why some slurs are more offensive than others. I am no way advocating that we be allowed to say it. I am not one of those, "well they say it so I should be allowed to say it" Just simply wondering why some slurs are allowed to be uttered and others not. Who decides?

Society decides. We live in a culture that makes these decisions collectively and through various means. It's the same method by which we have developed codes of ethics, and how we have come to classify various behaviours as moral and immoral.



Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[looooob]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

My junior high team name was cool too - the Milton Williams Marauders.

so cool they had to tear it down

[GIODUDE]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The n-word is a slur that was used to dehumanize a race deemed as "subhuman" and "uncivilized" for generations. Black people using it is seen as them reclaiming a word used as a weapon by their oppressors. White people using it is seen as evocative of the aggressively inequitable culture propagated by the era of slavery.

In short, if you're white, you don't get to ####ing say it.

Please read what I wrote again.

[GIODUDE]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Society decides. We live in a culture that makes these decisions collectively and through various means. It's the same method by which we have developed codes of ethics, and how we have come to classify various behaviours as moral and immoral.



Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

So context means nothing. I know that calling someone redskin is not ok. But saying redskin in the context of talking about the word itself seems to be ok. but saying the N word in that same context is taboo. Does not really make sense to me. AGAIN, I have not desire to say the N word and even if it were socially acceptable to say it in the context I just described, I would still refrain from saying it.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by GIODUDE

Please read what I wrote again.

I did. You asked what makes the n-word more offensive than other slurs. I explained why it is.

Generally speaking, all slurs are very offensive and can only be acceptably said by the people who are the target of them. Slurs, generally, are aimed at certain cultural or ethnic groups. Normal swear words, like f*** and s***, are just generally seen as rude, but who gives a f*** if you say them, really. Slurs are different because they are targeted and dehumanizing. Society decides which slurs are more offensive or less offensive than others. If it were up to me, saying the words "Redskin" and "Indian" would be much more societally objectionable.

[GIODUDE]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I did. You asked what makes the n-word more offensive than other slurs. I explained why it is.

Generally speaking, all slurs are very offensive and can only be acceptably said by the people who are the target of them. Slurs, generally, are aimed at certain cultural or ethnic groups. Normal swear words, like f*** and s***, are just generally seen as rude, but who gives a f*** if you say them, really. Slurs are different because they are targeted and dehumanizing. Society decides which slurs are more offensive or less offensive than others. If it were up to me, saying the words "Redskin" and "Indian" would be much more societally objectionable.

you just chose to write those words though. It was up to you and you still wrote them. I don't get that.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by GIODUDE

you just chose to write those words though. It was up to you and you still wrote them. I don't get that.

Good point, guess I should start. But either way, it really goes back to what Textcritic said.

We live in a culture that makes these decisions collectively and through various means.

Doesn't mean that it's right, but the words "Re*****" and "In****" have been deemed more societally acceptable than the n-word over the last century. But, for good reason, that seems like it's going to change.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GIODUDE

So context means nothing. I know that calling someone redskin is not ok. But saying redskin in the context of talking about the word itself seems to be ok. but saying the N word in that same context is taboo. Does not really make sense to me. AGAIN, I have not desire to say the N word and even if it were socially acceptable to say it in the context I just described, I would still refrain from saying it.

Context means everything. The context is the history of the word, the history of the people and society's treatment of each other, the modern usage of the word, and the differences in offensive and inoffensive usage of it.

You can say the N word if you want, but it is inherently offensive in any usage. There is no non-slur variations of the word. Up until Monday, Redskin was the name of a football team, so the non-slur variations existed fairly readily.

This isn't a new thing, either. History is littered with words and phrases and that went in and out of strict taboo. We probably have the least amount of taboo words today than at any point in modern history.

This isn't unique to these terms either. Go ahead and use the term "dick" in a social setting in Canada, and then use the term "c##t" and see what the difference is. In theory, they're really no different, but they carry a different severity.

It's possible that one day redskin will be as taboo as the N word, or more so, or that neither word will be seen as offensive as their history is mostly forgotten. It happens all the time.