Ferland trying to return to Wheat Kings. UPDATE: traded to Saskatoon

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

IIRC Beef, he completely crapped the bed his first 10 games in terms of stats.

He had to be 'de-Warded' from his time with the Flames.

That's not an excuse. he went from pro to the WHL and should not be struggling for 10 games, especially not that badly.

also its not like he played much for ward

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

That's not an excuse. he went from pro to the WHL and should not be struggling for 10 games, especially not that badly.

also its not like he played much for ward

The kid played like 9 or 10 games sporadically over like 7 or 8 months.

Not many are going to jump right in and have their A game after a lay off like that. These are human beings, not robots.

He's been very dominant since getting back up to game speed.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

That's not an excuse. he went from pro to the WHL and should not be struggling for 10 games, especially not that badly.

also its not like he played much for ward

read your two sentences - you answered your own question

when evaluating a player at a particular level, it isn't the first few games that tell the story, it's where the player settles in. Once getting his legs under him, he has dominated as expected. It's all good. I am happy that he will get the Memorial Cup experience. And then a do-over next year as a pro.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The kid played like 9 or 10 games sporadically over like 7 or 8 months.

Not many are going to jump right in and have their A game after a lay off like that. These are human beings, not robots.

He's been very dominant since getting back up to game speed.

I watched him play in the Blades v Rebels game and he looked good. SHould also remember the Blades are a strong team, so it might be easier to look good.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I watched him play in the Blades v Rebels game and he looked good. SHould also remember the Blades are a strong team, so it might be easier to look good.

Thats the thing though...they werent a very strong team until he and a couple other guys arrived on deadline day...i believe they were in 8th place in their conference. Now they are in 2nd spot and actually may be becoming favorites over Edmonton to take the league title.

[GreenLantern]

Can't really argue with 18 wins a row, which started after Ferland got there..

As I have said in the other thread, this kid looks head and shoulders above the majority of players out there. Even 1st round draft picks like Siemens.

[Vulcan]

I heard according to Ward, Ferland had a conditioning problem. This seems to be an ongoing thing with our junior graduates where they expect to play themselves into shape or maybe Ward isn't giving them the chance. Anyways two sides to the story and Ferland's slow start in the WHL seems to say he wasn't in game shape.

[moon]

I think Saskatoon had some games in hand that would have likely put them in 6th, but still a great jump and stretch of games for them since adding Ferland and others.

I was really down on him after the offseason incident and early season but he seems to be a guy that might fit that new role of enforcer that can actually play a 3rd line role. I think hoping for a Lucic top 6 might be a little hopefully and you always have to be wary of putting too much stock into a guy in his 20 year old year in the CHL but Ferland has really turned around his season and hopefully he can keep it going like this in the future.

I would hope the Flames bring him along properly as he likely needs two years to continue to learn "how to be a pro" and I don't think he needs to be rushed to help deal with the lack of toughness/grit.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I heard according to Ward, Ferland had a conditioning problem. This seems to be an ongoing thing with our junior graduates where they expect to play themselves into shape or maybe Ward isn't giving them the chance. Anyways two sides to the story and Ferland's slow start in the WHL seems to say he wasn't in game shape.

He was also sitting out games because the Wheatkings had 4 20 year olds on their team when he was there and that can't help with the few games he had played in the AHL/ECHL.

[GreenLantern]

Anyone not watching "the Road to the Memorial cup" should be.. the episodes right now are right around the time Ferland joins. Pretty cool stuff.

[flamesfan55]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Anyone not watching "the Road to the Memorial cup" should be.. the episodes right now are right around the time Ferland joins. Pretty cool stuff.

Great show!

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I heard according to Ward, Ferland had a conditioning problem. This seems to be an ongoing thing with our junior graduates where they expect to play themselves into shape or maybe Ward isn't giving them the chance. Anyways two sides to the story and Ferland's slow start in the WHL seems to say he wasn't in game shape.

Yes supposedly he was not in great shape and yes he's not the first junior player to be deemed in poor shape by Ward. I don't have any problem with the coach trying to install some discipline and the importance of being in top shape but you eventually have to let the guys play or the Flames are spinning their wheels with their draft picks.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yes supposedly he was not in great shape and yes he's not the first junior player to be deemed in poor shape by Ward. I don't have any problem with the coach trying to install some discipline and the importance of being in top shape but you eventually have to let the guys play or the Flames are spinning their wheels with their draft picks.

So what's the excuse for him not being played in the ECHL? Is that the coaches fault too? Or was it some conspiracy laid out by Ward to keep Ferland off the ice?

I think it's time for certain people to accept that maybe, just maybe Ferland was the problem.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I think it's time for certain people to accept that maybe, just maybe Ferland was the problem.

Who said he didn't have a role in this? Players have to take some blame in this for sure but there is a process when it comes to developing young talent and I feel some steps are being skipped by Ward. It's like the prospects that initially struggle are immediately tossed in the sin bin. Maybe it's not Ward and maybe there is something about the Heat that is simply stifling these young guys as it sure does seem like all the Flames junior prospects seem to have their confidence destroyed in Abbotsford. So Ferland is again playing well in junior which is great but what happens next year when he will be back with the Heat? Another season like this one for Reinhart and we may as well cross him off the list as he looks to be heading to the scrap heap with Irving and Nemisz.

[Mitch]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Who said he didn't have a role in this? Players have to take some blame in this for sure but there is a process when it comes to developing young talent and I feel some steps are being skipped by Ward. It's like the prospects that initially struggle are immediately tossed in the sin bin. Maybe it's not Ward and maybe there is something about the Heat that is simply stifling these young guys as it sure does seem like all the Flames junior prospects seem to have their confidence destroyed in Abbotsford. So Ferland is again playing well in junior which is great but what happens next year when he will be back with the Heat? Another season like this one for Reinhart and we may as well cross him off the list as he looks to be heading to the scrap heap with Irving and Nemisz.

I don't know why but whenever people try to explain to you that it isn't as bad as you think it is and you have absolutely no foundation to base your hate on Ward because you don't even watch the heat, you seem to just ignore the post and post in another thread.

I have explained to you what is actually happening with the heat, and PMM has given a very in depth response to your blind hate. Maybe I should just quote the posts if you have forgetting?

Gets a little frustrating when someone with no knowledge of the heat seemingly talks and whines about them more then anyone else.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Mitch

I don't know why but whenever people try to explain to you that it isn't as bad as you think it is and you have absolutely no foundation to base your hate on Ward because you don't even watch the heat, you seem to just ignore the post and post in another thread.

I have explained to you what is actually happening with the heat, and PMM has given a very in depth response to your blind hate. Maybe I should just quote the posts if you have forgetting?

Gets a little frustrating when someone with no knowledge of the heat seemingly talks and whines about them more then anyone else.

You must surely realize I'm not the only poster here that isn't a big Ward fan. It's a results orientated business and I don't need to see the Heat play. All I need to see is how Flames prospects are doing and being handled. At the end of the day if they all are struggling and being benched or sent to other leagues then I start to look at why they are all struggling. Maybe they simply aren't that good (possible for sure) or maybe things in Abbotsford aren't conducive to proper developement (also possible). Considering pretty well every Flames drafted propects are struggling I'm simply not going to dismiss that the players may not be the only problem.

Now that Sven is down there things will get further magnified because if he struggles well.....

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You must surely realize I'm not the only poster here that isn't a big Ward fan. It's a results orientated business and I don't need to see the Heat play. All I need to see is how Flames prospects are doing and being handled. At the end of the day if they all are struggling and being benched or sent to other leagues then I start to look at why they are all struggling. Maybe they simply aren't that good (possible for sure) or maybe things in Abbotsford aren't conducive to proper developement (also possible). Considering pretty well every Flames drafted propects are struggling I'm simply not going to dismiss that the players may not be the only problem.

Now that Sven is down there things will get further magnified because if he struggles well.....

Your argument makes zero sense.

You don't need to see the Heat play, but you need to see how the prospects are being handled? This makes sense how?

Watch the Heat. If you don't watch them, then ask people who do about what they see. Stat watching is no way to scout anything - not a way to scout a player, or a coaching staff.

I planned on following Carolina a bit this year, but I still haven't because I am busy. I had high hopes for them this season. I personally would NEVER go on their forum site and provide my reasons and gripes with the team and expect anyone to take me seriously. However, even though you don't watch the Heat, you seem to be beating the same drum saying that Ward is the problem, even though people who do watch and follow the Heat tell you differently. Why?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Your argument makes zero sense.

You don't need to see the Heat play, but you need to see how the prospects are being handled? This makes sense how?

Watch the Heat. If you don't watch them, then ask people who do about what they see. Stat watching is no way to scout anything - not a way to scout a player, or a coaching staff.

I planned on following Carolina a bit this year, but I still haven't because I am busy. I had high hopes for them this season. I personally would NEVER go on their forum site and provide my reasons and gripes with the team and expect anyone to take me seriously. However, even though you don't watch the Heat, you seem to be beating the same drum saying that Ward is the problem, even though people who do watch and follow the Heat tell you differently. Why?

So if say Semin was having a terrible season with them with 2 goals, and 6 points while being benched and scratched. Would you need to watch Carolina's games to come to the conclusion that he's either struggling like he has never before in his career, or he and the coach aren't meshing, or a bit of both?

If Ferland is playing in the WHL what good would watching the Heat do when discussing why he couldn't play on the Heat?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So if say Semin was having a terrible season with them with 2 goals, and 6 points while being benched and scratched. Would you need to watch Carolina's games to come to the conclusion that he's either struggling like he has never before in his career, or he and the coach aren't meshing, or a bit of both?

If Ferland is playing in the WHL what good would watching the Heat do when discussing why he couldn't play on the Heat?

To keep using that example, I have not been following Carolina. If Semin was doing badly this year, I would ask why. If fans who follow Carolina tell me that he looks slow, out of shape and a step behind everyone, I would probably end it there. It appears you, however, would start making posts claiming that Kirk Muller needs to go since he is wrecking Semin's game, ignoring all the information that people are taking their time in explaining to you.

As for your question: "If Ferland is playing in the WHL what good would watching the Heat do when discussing why he couldn't play on the Heat?" Not sure if you are really serious about that question, but here is your answer:

If you had watched the Heat, you would have known what I and almost every other poster that commented on what he or she saw - Ferland looked out of place. He came to camp out of shape, and Ward made him do extra scrimmages and worked him harder. He just never got to a place where he was keeping up. He had 'ok' games where he didn't look TOO bad, but others where he just wasn't keeping up at all. If you had watched the Heat play, you would have seen this. But you didn't, and you just choose to ignore everything that has been written about Ferland thus far from firsthand accounts, and instead keep insinuating that Ward is horrible.

If you don't watch the Heat games and keep up with the development of the prospects, then how could you possibly know if the Flames' development program was good or bad? Perhaps it is scouting? Perhaps it is just bad luck? Unless you actually follow them, how could you have an opinion that isn't just conjured up to fit with your shtick on these forums? There are still a heck of a lot of other prospects on that Heat team, and it is probably a good idea to start watching them if you really want to make comments and beat the drum for someone getting fired.

Had you stated that you watched the Heat, and think that Ward is the wrong guy for the job for 'x' reasons, I would listen to them. You may even change my mind. However, don't expect to gain an audience when you come here and use an argument like: "I haven't seen the Heat, but Ward sucks". This is the essence to your argument. You have posted a number of these anti-Ward comments in the FOI forum, and never once did I even think until now you didn't watch a game. Good job

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

t's a results orientated business...

Junior, college and minor-pro are primarily process-orientated businesses. It's not a results game until you hit the NHL. When you're trying to get guys ready for the NHL, the process is the most important, not the results.