Kevin Allen: Hiller and Raymond were two of the best value UFA signings

[sureLoss]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...ames/18156435/

When the Calgary Flames signed veteran goaltender Jonas Hiller and speedy forward Mason Raymond in the midst of the NHL's annual free agent frenzy last summer, it didn't rate a banner headline.

The signings around the league of Paul Stastny, Matt Niskanen, Ryan Miller, Brad Richards and Jarome Iginla garnered more attention.

But if you assess how the free agents have performed in the first three weeks of the season, the Hiller and Raymond acquisitions were two of the best value signings of the period.

"Both of those players have been everything we had hoped for," Flames general manager Brad Treliving said.

Although Raymond is sidelined with an injury, he leads all Calgary forwards with five goals and is among the team's leading scorers with seven points.

In six starts, Hiller has a 1.63 goals-against average and a .948 save percentage.

Both players are key reasons Calgary has been far more competitive than expected.

[Vinny01]

Early returns have been solid on both that's for sure

[Five-hole]

Even Engelland, who was absolutely terrible at first, has turned it around a bit in the last couple of games.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Early returns have been solid on both that's for sure

If the Flames were to play in a prairie province league Raymond would indeed be an all-star

In the 2 games against the Jets and Oilers he has 4 goal and 2 assists.

Against NHL teams he has 1 goal and 1 pt in 8 games.

Last year withe the Leafs Raymond had 4 goals and 4 assists after 10 games.

[Igster]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

If the Flames were to play in a prairie province league Raymond would indeed be an all-star

In the 2 games against the Jets and Oilers he has 4 goal and 2 assists.

Against NHL teams he has 1 goal and 1 pt in 8 games.

Last year withe the Leafs Raymond had 4 goals and 4 assists after 10 games.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

If the Flames were to play in a prairie province league Raymond would indeed be an all-star

In the 2 games against the Jets and Oilers he has 4 goal and 2 assists.

Against NHL teams he has 1 goal and 1 pt in 8 games.

Last year withe the Leafs Raymond had 4 goals and 4 assists after 10 games.

And your point is? I think signing a 40-50 point winger on a 3m deal for only 3 years is a steal.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Even Engelland, who was absolutely terrible at first, has turned it around a bit in the last couple of games.

I think he was in over his head on the second pairing.

[saillias]

Raymond's role in Calgary is not comparable to Toronto. In fact he's going to be relied on more here than any other time in his NHL career. And those 2 games against those prairie teams, are 2 wins. So thanks to ricardodw for illustrating how Raymond has helped the Flames gain 4 points in the standings, I guess.

[GioforPM]

Raymond's a close to 20 goal man in a full season, if you look at his stats. That makes his contract a good one.

[Coach]

I think Engelland and Smid have gelled nicely as a 3rd pairing of defensive dmen. I think management thought he could maybe take a bigger role, hence the pricetag, but who cares about the price when we're so far off the cap? If you separate him from his salary he's been good. And the good so far play of Wideman has made it so he doesn't have to be forced into a higher role than he can play.

The D core as a whole has been very good IMO.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Even Engelland, who was absolutely terrible at first, has turned it around a bit in the last couple of games.

Except for that brutal pass two games ago, leading right to a goal.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Except for that brutal pass two games ago, leading right to a goal.

The one where the puck partially jumped over his stick (ice?) , as he was trying to go D to D, and Joel Ward walked in on a breakaway.

If he was any good the puck would not have done that. Right?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by timbit

The one where the puck partially jumped over his stick (ice?) , as he was trying to go D to D, and Joel Ward walked in on a breakaway.

If he was any good the puck would not have done that. Right?

Also, good players never cough up the puck.


And if they really do never cough it up, they likely cost a whole hell of a lot more. It reminds me of people complaining of Bourque's inconsistency. Well yeah, if he had been consistent he would have been a 30 goal 6 million dollar player. He wasn't and we weren't paying him to be.

[Goriders]

Of our free agent pick-ups my comments are:

Hiller: Awesome. Wow. Looks like Kipper but calmer.

Raymond: Better than I though he'd be. Excellent pick up.

Bollig: Probably the long term replacement for McGratton. Not as intimidating. But looks a lot more utilitarian. Can play up and down the line up. Probably a more useful player as teams seem to be dumping their heavy weights.

Engelland: Not as excited about him. Had higher hopes. He looks like he's playing scared. Shows zero confidence with the puck. Hopefully he gets over that. If he can calm down the turnovers I think he's an upgrade over Butler since he adds a presence Butler didn't.

Setoguchi: Blah. I think there are a number of younger guys who could do the same thing. He's the one signing I didn't understand. And still think it was a mistake.

Diaz: Similar to Engelland. Doesn't look like he's playing scared. But he's shakey with the puck. I can understand why they signed him though. So guys like Sieloff, Wotherspoon can play big minutes in the AHL.

And finally, not free agents, but newbies.

Johnny Hockey: I figured he'd be our best forward by the midpoint of the season. I'm changing that to the 20 game mark. The only other player I've seen like him in our system is Bennett. Can't wait for Bennett.

Jooris: Most surprising player in the organization. Betting he causes Setoguchi to be demoted or traded at some point this year.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Also, good players never cough up the puck.


And if they really do never cough it up, they likely cost a whole hell of a lot more. It reminds me of people complaining of Bourque's inconsistency. Well yeah, if he had been consistent he would have been a 30 goal 6 million dollar player. He wasn't and we weren't paying him to be.

It was a very easy D to D play, with plenty of time and space, and he blew it. Look at the video - the puck didn't jump over his stick - he fanned and then it went into the air a bit. I agree, he's played relatively OK, but that play sucked, and there wasn't an excuse.

http://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/recap?id=2014020116

And we were paying Bourque a lot considering what he gave (or more accurately, didn't give).

[GioforPM]

$4M per year is what Calgary paid Bourque (it was slightly top ended and Montreal is now paying only $2.5 per year).

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I think Engelland and Smid have gelled nicely as a 3rd pairing of defensive dmen. I think management thought he could maybe take a bigger role, hence the pricetag, but who cares about the price when we're so far off the cap? If you separate him from his salary he's been good. And the good so far play of Wideman has made it so he doesn't have to be forced into a higher role than he can play.

The D core as a whole has been very good IMO.

Engelland (and Bollig) makes it feasible for the Flames to go with 4 lines and dress and play Jooris instead of McGrattan.

In the Carolina game (with a healthy roster for the whole game) the lowest ice time for the 12 Flames forwards was Bouma's 17 shift 12:43. As far as I can see that could have been the most rolling of 4 lines in Flames history.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by saillias

Raymond's role in Calgary is not comparable to Toronto. In fact he's going to be relied on more here than any other time in his NHL career. And those 2 games against those prairie teams, are 2 wins. So thanks to ricardodw for illustrating how Raymond has helped the Flames gain 4 points in the standings, I guess.

How so?

Are you saying Raymond was that much more important in Toronto?

He played 81 games and averaged 17:21 /game over the whole year.

Last October for the Leafs he played 14 game averaging 18:52 /game (5 goals 11 pts +3)

This October 10 games averaging 17:28 /game with the Flames...

The Leafs were relying on him as least as much and arguably more.


He is doing exactly what was expected of him when the Flames signed him.

He has to get paid less than what his scoring points would indicate because he is a totally non-physical player. ( 0 hits in 10 games tied with Gaudreau)

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It was a very easy D to D play, with plenty of time and space, and he blew it. Look at the video - the puck didn't jump over his stick - he fanned and then it went into the air a bit. I agree, he's played relatively OK, but that play sucked, and there wasn't an excuse.

http://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/recap?id=2014020116

And we were paying Bourque a lot considering what he gave (or more accurately, didn't give).

No one's excusing it, we just realize that a 3rd pairing defenseman is going to make the odd blunder and are ok with that. It's a bad play and an NHL player should be able to do it. He IS able to do it, but messed it up that time. It's going to happen.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

How so?

Are you saying Raymond was that much more important in Toronto?

He played 81 games and averaged 17:21 /game over the whole year.

Last October for the Leafs he played 14 game averaging 18:52 /game (5 goals 11 pts +3)

This October 10 games averaging 17:28 /game with the Flames...

The Leafs were relying on him as least as much and arguably more.


He is doing exactly what was expected of him when the Flames signed him.

He has to get paid less than what his scoring points would indicate because he is a totally non-physical player. ( 0 hits in 10 games tied with Gaudreau)

I should have clarified I mean more in terms of a veteran leadership role, didn't intend to invoke stats with that statement. He is a vet on this team, and the Gaudreaus & co are looking at him for how to make it in this league. on TML and Van he's never had that role.