The Walking Dead TV show only thread- Part II ***See spoiler rules in first post***

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Rick and co have never seen the unrest with the Negan camp though. Any of their dealings with him have always been with the people who are buying into the whole "We are Negan" thing. They are operating under the assumption that they have a tight camp and need to be broken down.

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Maybe I'm remembering wrong but didn't he only interact with Dwight and his wife? Everyone group is going to have a couple loose ends, Rick's group has had a few of their own.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Right, maybe I was thinking Eugene and the girls...

Eugene saw the depths of dissent, and complied out of fear. Dwight would have witnessed all of that. Darryl saw quite a bit as they tried to turn him into a peon right before his escape. It would be clear to Darryl how the Saviors are structured.

Now add in that they have the voice of Dwight on their side, so I would expect he told them everything about the Saviors. That is, if he truly wants it to end.

Like I say, I'll ride along even if I believe I know better.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yes. Zombies are scarier and less predictable than smug villains like negan. Really the only thing they can explore in the current direction is maybe some sort of mutiny or dissention within the group as once they win this war they will have a large group and control of a large area.

While I think they could balance it between the two elements a bit better, there is nothing like having a legitimate villain to root against. Walkers simply cannot be that element.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Yamer

While I think they could balance it between the two elements a bit better, there is nothing like having a legitimate villain to root against. Walkers simply cannot be that element.

They need a villain that develops a means of manipulating the zombies to do his bidding. Or maybe some sort of strain that people could carry like say the Thing where you don't know who's infected. I always hoped that the mutation would spread to animals so we could have zombie dogs and stuff. I think the current story line of running into bad group after bad group is getting a little stale. That said I expect they may shift their focus to possibly internal struggles once they take care of the saviors.

[blankall]

Really enjoyed having TWD back, and this was a great episode. Loved the pacing. As far as non premium cable shows go, this is great TV. Hoping they bring back the garbage pail kids for the sole purpose of having them meet a quick end.

[Radio]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

They need a villain that develops a means of manipulating the zombies to do his bidding. Or maybe some sort of strain that people could carry like say the Thing where you don't know who's infected. I always hoped that the mutation would spread to animals so we could have zombie dogs and stuff. I think the current story line of running into bad group after bad group is getting a little stale. That said I expect they may shift their focus to possibly internal struggles once they take care of the saviors.

That's what Rick did. He brought the herd to Negan. He's using them as his army, as his force multiplier. That's why they were shooting at the windows. To make enough noise that the herd ends up where he needs them.

Last season, and this last episode, really blurs the lines of who the "bad guys" are. If you look at it from Negan's POV Rick is the crazy killer trying to destroy their existence.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Radio

That's what Rick did. He brought the herd to Negan. He's using them as his army, as his force multiplier. That's why they were shooting at the windows. To make enough noise that the herd ends up where he needs them.

Last season, and this last episode, really blurs the lines of who the "bad guys" are. If you look at it from Negan's POV Rick is the crazy killer trying to destroy their existence.

Negan’s POV is this: oh crap! The friends of those two guys who’s heads I bashed in right in front of them are trying to take me out after I stole all their weapons and food.

Blurred lines?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Radio

That's what Rick did. He brought the herd to Negan. He's using them as his army, as his force multiplier. That's why they were shooting at the windows. To make enough noise that the herd ends up where he needs them.

Last season, and this last episode, really blurs the lines of who the "bad guys" are. If you look at it from Negan's POV Rick is the crazy killer trying to destroy their existence.

Negan's crew also enslaves everyone around them and uses extreme violence to do so. They're the bad guys.

[iggy_oi]

From terminus’ POV the rick’s crew were an untamed herd that stampeded through their otherwise calm and protagonistic farm. (Still the best episode of the series IMO)

[Locke]

Originally Posted by blankall

Negan's crew also enslaves everyone around them and uses extreme violence to do so. They're the bad guys.

Right, but I think what makes it interesting is the dynamic of Rick and Maggie.

Negan and his group are the bad guys, but they're also right about something, after all hes done you cannot paint Rick as 'The Good Guy.'

But thats okay, because sometimes circumstances conspire to require good guys to have to do bad things and its hard, sometimes impossible, to go back afterwards, but the dynamic between Rick and Maggie is such that Rick knows this, and when his time doing bad things is done Maggie enters centre-stage and takes over.

I get people being tired of the circuitous story of just meeting a bigger, crazier bad guy, and I do get the impression that cycle of this story is nearing its end because I dont think we harbour many illusions that the combined forces of Alexandria, The Hilltop and the Kingdom are going to overcome the Saviours, but then at that point the story-board is much, much larger.

I've repeatedly stated that 'The Walking Dead' are Ricks' group, not the Zombies, but should they defeat Negan they're no longer these wandering vagabonds but rather central pillars of a fairly large community, so I think thats the direction the show is destined to move in.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I always find it puzzling that people talk about where they think the show should move, or they should do X and Y because it will then allow them more freedom to tell Z story, when the entire progression of the story is pre-determined by source material. They're locked in, in that regard - even though they can tell the same story differently, it's still the same story.

As for their plan,

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Could be the whole "I'm Negan." thing that all members of the Survivors adopt. Decapitate the leader(s) and others step up with the same mentality. I think Rick's approach is meant to crush that spirit and not just take out the current leadership.

This was also my reaction to the plan. Negan's entire influence is based on him selling people on the idea that this is the best way to survive now - you're loyal to a dictatorial leader, help him subjugate others, and you'll live in relative comfort, for which the only price is subservience (and your humanity, if you have any left, through what you have to do to the people who are under your boot).

Rick's now at the doors, and he's showing them that this isn't the best way to survive, after all. A group of three disparate communities decided to get together and try to help each other, rather than focusing on self-interest. And the Saviors can get a piece of that way of living too, no questions asked, if they just give up the guy who will happily torture and disfigure them for relatively minor slights. Oh, and by the way, here's a zombie horde to put you under as much pressure as possible. If there's a recipe for a mutiny, it's probably something like that. You could even see the guy on the right, whatever his name is, wavering in real time - "can we have a time out here?"

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I always find it puzzling that people talk about where they think the show should move, or they should do X and Y because it will then allow them more freedom to tell Z story, when the entire progression of the story is pre-determined by source material. They're locked in, in that regard - even though they can tell the same story differently, it's still the same story.

I dont know the source material and for the most part the showrunners have shown that they are willing to deviate, sometimes fairly dramatically.

Is there source material for FTWD?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I don't know, actually.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Locke

Right, but I think what makes it interesting is the dynamic of Rick and Maggie.

Negan and his group are the bad guys, but they're also right about something, after all hes done you cannot paint Rick as 'The Good Guy.'

But thats okay, because sometimes circumstances conspire to require good guys to have to do bad things and its hard, sometimes impossible, to go back afterwards, but the dynamic between Rick and Maggie is such that Rick knows this, and when his time doing bad things is done Maggie enters centre-stage and takes over.

I get people being tired of the circuitous story of just meeting a bigger, crazier bad guy, and I do get the impression that cycle of this story is nearing its end because I dont think we harbour many illusions that the combined forces of Alexandria, The Hilltop and the Kingdom are going to overcome the Saviours, but then at that point the story-board is much, much larger.

I've repeatedly stated that 'The Walking Dead' are Ricks' group, not the Zombies, but should they defeat Negan they're no longer these wandering vagabonds but rather central pillars of a fairly large community, so I think thats the direction the show is destined to move in.

Blurring the line between hero and villain, in the context of an apocalypse, has been an ongoing theme. What separates Rick from Negan is that Rick isn't motivated by personal gain. Rick makes poor and emotional decisions, but he doesn't enslave people for the purpose of having a harem. Both Negan and Rick act to feed their own ego, but Negan feeds this behaviour, while Rick seems more and more aware of his problem and what he needs to do to correct it.

Rick also seems to learn from the bad things he's done and want to make an effort to change. Basically the point is that you will end up doing some awful things to survive in TWD universe, but there is still a line between good and evil.

[AC]

Anybody else hate these 2 episodes to start the new season?

They should have been awesome and intense given the action... but I found them super boring and didn't care at all.

[Otto-matic]

Wait how did

Spoiler!

Morales

end up in Negan's group? Wasn't he heading the opposite direction?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by AC

Anybody else hate these 2 episodes to start the new season?

They should have been awesome and intense given the action... but I found them super boring and didn't care at all.

I thought the episodes were good, but the thing that bothered me was how hard it was to keep track of who was shooting at who in those scenes. I could barely keep track of who were Saviors and who were all allies. I think it was the way they lined up the shots.

Also that artsy slow-motion shots of the guys in the opening 2 minutes and closing 2 minutes was very, very unnecessary. I *hate* slow-motion. it added nothing.

[Old Yeller]

I found the gun fight scenes last night very "off", seemed like half the episode was just cobbled together cut scenes of various characters firing guns.

It just felt awkward to me and really took away from the episode.

[Radio]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Wait how did

Spoiler!

Morales

end up in Negan's group? Wasn't he heading the opposite direction?

Yes. Rick and his group went south to the CDC and he went north towards DC.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by AC

Anybody else hate these 2 episodes to start the new season?

They should have been awesome and intense given the action... but I found them super boring and didn't care at all.

Man, thank you!

Wife & I really love this show, and though, i do agree wtih EE's sentiment that the group vs group conflict, particularly the neverending Neegan saga has gotten quite tiring, but we were eager to see how they played this season out.

the first 2 episodes have been not only boring, but unclear on what they are trying to portray. what's the frigin plan, what are they key areas of conflict, everything seems pretty damn easy-breezy. Neegan's strong hold seemed fairly unpenetratable, yet fire down a few look-outs and it seems as though the whole thing crumbles quite easily.

That scene with neegan standing and talking, yet no one thinks to try to snipe him, shoot him, nothing while in plain site was hilarious.

[Johnny Makarov]

Ezekiel and his bad high school play acting needs to die. Same with his crappy CG tiger.
and Morgan going all John Woo at the outpost was painfully bad.