Israel declares war on Hamas

[Azure]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1710621041335169480

Sad, but likely true.

[Beninho]

A dark day for Israel. The ramifications of Hamas’s actions today will lead to immense suffering for the Palestinians for years to come. But they treat their citizens like expendable cattle. Savages

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians, and in particular the expansion of settlements and the settler movement, bears a lot of responsibility for the intransigence of the conflict.

However, equivocation between the behaviour of the state of Israel on one hand and Hamas and Hezbollah on the other, is odious. The deliberate targeting of civilians is an entirely different kind of crime than the death of civilians resulting from military operations. Israel has the means to kill 100 Palestinian civilians a day if they chose to. Or 1000. But they don’t. If the leadership of Hamas had the ability to press a button every day that would kill 100 Israelis, does anyone think they would hesitate to push it?

Can someone explain to me how restricting water and dehousing people isn't targeting civilians?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

What an absolute #### show. Just what the world needs in addition to unrest in Africa, a russian invasion in Ukraine, right win authoritarianism on the rise and world still not recovered from a gobal pandemic. Just awesome . Attacks from multiple front and thousands of rockets launched. Insanity. I guess that puts to rest the notion that having nuclear weapons guarantees you safety from attacks like this.

Russia seems to be strangely connected to all of the unrest. Weird. Putin is on his heels, so he sends out mercenaries to destabilize several countries in Africa, then has Iran and their proxy armies go nuts.

[combustiblefuel]

Almost like the British should have stayed out of that region long ago....

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Can someone explain to me how restricting water and dehousing people isn't targeting civilians?

Or how, despite the fact that they never target civilians, they always manage to injure and kill hundreds and thousands more than the terrorists.

But they’re not the terrorists. And they don’t target civilians, so they’re good to just keep doing what they’re doing until Palestinians are wiped out (which is likely now what’s going to happen).

Thank God for the good guys.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by blankall

Russia seems to be strangely connected to all of the unrest. Weird. Putin is on his heels, so he sends out mercenaries to destabilize several countries in Africa, then has Iran and their proxy armies go nuts.

You can also add the conflict in Azerbaijan and rising tension in Kosovo. Putin likely had his nose in there too.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Can someone explain to me how restricting water and dehousing people isn't targeting civilians?

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Or how, despite the fact that they never target civilians, they always manage to injure and kill hundreds and thousands more than the terrorists.

But they’re not the terrorists. And they don’t target civilians, so they’re good to just keep doing what they’re doing until Palestinians are wiped out (which is likely now what’s going to happen).

Thank God for the good guys.

Sure. First of all the de-housing or punitive demolition was meant as a measure to discourage terrorists from murdering Israelis. It became popular because terrorists weren't afraid of dying if it meant killing Israelis with them. The idea is that a person would think of his/her family and would prefer to not leave them without a house in order to murder Israelis for a cause.

Regarding the water, this issue I'm not too familiar with. Israel rations the water it gives its farmers as well, because it is a desert. Most of the water in Israel is obtained by drilling from the aquifer along the beach. That's something Gaza could do as well. They don't because Israel supplies them with water.

As for killing civilians when targeting military objectives. You underestimate how densely populated the area is. The whole Gaza strip is ~141 sq. miles. Calgary in Comparison is 318 sq. miles. The population of the Gaza strip is around $2M people. The military infrastructure is built within the population, and is surrounded by population to discourage its targeting. When another country/state w.e is shooting rockets at you, you shoot back at the source. Otherwise your population is targeted without recourse.

[Beninho]

There are some bone chilling videos going around, imagine if Hamas got control of a state. Animals, all of them. You can’t negotiate with Islamists. All they know is blood but for years you see people on this site and all over the internet saying how Israel should do more. Not possible. Gaza will be a pile of a rubble in a month.

[La Flames Fan]

I'm definitely no conspiracy theorist, but I am shocked and a little skeptical that Israel had no inkling this was coming.

It's awful and it's going to be awful for the region. The last thing our world needs is more conflict and hate. Ugh.

I am having a real tough time understanding how intelligence from Israel and its allies didn't pick up on something, but maybe it was planned expertly, who knows.

[Nyah]

It just makes me sad and anxious. The level of hate between these two is insane. Israelis deserve better than their antagonistic government, and Palestinians deserve better than the terrorist group Hamas. I can't see lasting peace anytime soon with these two in power, and most certainly not in the foreseeable future with today's events. Like, those videos are the stuff of nightmares. As always, it'll be the civilians that bear the brunt.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Sure. First of all the de-housing or punitive demolition was meant as a measure to discourage terrorists from murdering Israelis. It became popular because terrorists weren't afraid of dying if it meant killing Israelis with them. The idea is that a person would think of his/her family and would prefer to not leave them without a house in order to murder Israelis for a cause.



Regarding the water, this issue I'm not too familiar with. Israel rations the water it gives its farmers as well, because it is a desert. Most of the water in Israel is obtained by drilling from the aquifer along the beach. That's something Gaza could do as well. They don't because Israel supplies them with water.



As for killing civilians when targeting military objectives. You underestimate how densely populated the area is. The whole Gaza strip is ~141 sq. miles. Calgary in Comparison is 318 sq. miles. The population of the Gaza strip is around $2M people. The military infrastructure is built within the population, and is surrounded by population to discourage its targeting. When another country/state w.e is shooting rockets at you, you shoot back at the source. Otherwise your population is targeted without recourse.

So basically just the classic collateral damage argument? It's okay if we displace, kill, and impoverish people, as long as we get a few terrorists in the process?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So basically just the classic collateral damage argument? It's okay if we displace, kill, and impoverish people, as long as we get a few terrorists in the process?

Okay, how would you respond? just take it? Remember you need to protect your population, your loved ones. Boots on the ground? going house to house only to be ambushed and massacred?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Nyah

It just makes me sad and anxious. The level of hate between these two is insane. Israelis deserve better than their antagonistic government, and Palestinians deserve better than the terrorist group Hamas. I can't see lasting peace anytime soon with these two in power, and most certainly not in the foreseeable future with today's events. Like, those videos are the stuff of nightmares. As always, it'll be the civilians that bear the brunt.

They've had it baked into their respective DNA for thousands of years, its always been simmering just below the surface until it occasionally boils over.

I'm not going to pretend I have an answer, all I can say is that when the Western World interferes....it tends to exacerbate matters and make everything worse.

I dont know what the solution is. Peace has never worked, they dont seem to be able to co-exist and the prospect of standing back and just letting them have at each other until there is only one left standing is equally as unpalatable.

Its a giant s### sandwich that a lot of Nations have had a hand in preparing. Now we have to see who is in line to take their bite.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Locke

They've had it baked into their respective DNA for thousands of years, its always been simmering just below the surface until it occasionally boils over.

I'm not going to pretend I have an answer, all I can say is that when the Western World interferes....it tends to exacerbate matters and make everything worse.

I dont know what the solution is. Peace has never worked, they dont seem to be able to co-exist and the prospect of standing back and just letting them have at each other until there is only one left standing is equally as unpalatable.

Its a giant s### sandwich that a lot of Nations have had a hand in preparing. Now we have to see who is in line to take their bite.

Israel has coexisted just fine with Egypt and Jordan. That's why I had hope for a peaceful solution for the longest time. It doesn't seem possible now because both sides are set on making it into an existential war.

[chemgear]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1710757415388414307

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So basically just the classic collateral damage argument? It's okay if we displace, kill, and impoverish people, as long as we get a few terrorists in the process?

Honest question.....what choice do they have?

I mean, watch the videos of all those rockets that were launched last night.

Its clear they are coming from heavily populated areas.

When answering an attack, they need to neutralize the weaponry that is killing their citizens.....Hamas hides all that among the population.

So as gross as it is going to be as far as the human toll goes, there very little else Israel can do at this point.

I don't know...Israel has every right to stop the killing of their people and it has to start with wiping out where the threat is coming from....no?

[KelVarnsen]

Two wrongs don’t make a right

[Regorium]

I actually can't believe there are people doing the both sides many sides thing on this forum for this situation.

Literally everything that happened in the past no longer matters as of today.

The videos are vile. They show no remorse. Worse, they show malicious intent and celebration. I just watched a kidnapped 6 year old Israeli boy crying for his mother while getting hit and beaten by Palestinians. He's probably dead by now.

If that was my country, I would expect a disproportionate response from the government to avenge my countrymen.

[transplant99]

“The entire system failed. It’s not just one component. It’s the entire defense architecture that evidently failed to provide the necessary defense for Israeli civilians,” said Jonathan Conricus, a former international spokesperson for the Israel Defense Forces.

“This is a Pearl Harbor type of moment for Israel, where there was reality up until today, and then there will be reality after today.”

Ominous.

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-...hnk/index.html