Late Summer Reverse Standings Poll - 29th

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I agree. Carolina (especially) and Ottawa both seem like candidates to let things go really bad if they don't start well.

I can't see Arizona or Nashville throwing in the towel, but I can see Carolina, Ottawa, Buffalo, and Edmonton all 'focusing on the draft' if things aren't going well by US Thanksgiving.

Or Canadian Thanksgiving!

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

^ We are in the same boat with Arizona. Not so great looking forwards, decent defense, good goaltending and good coaching. What I bolded is what both teams have to get them out of the bottom 3.

The Flames picked up a goalie in Hiller who amongst goalies who played at least 20 games (1/4 of the season, 12 games in the lockout year) was

2013 - tied for 44th out 61 goalies. There were 13 goalies in the NHL who were worse than him, there were 43 who were better than him and there were 5 who had the same sv percentage

2012 - 27th out of 56. There were 26 goalies who were better than him and 29 who were worse (at least he was above average this year)

2011 - Tied for 32nd 48 goalies.There were 15 goalies that were worse than him, 31 that were better than him and 1 that was the same.

So in 2013 about 21% of the goalies were worse than him, about 71% of the goalies were better than himand 8% were the same as him. In 2012 he was in the top half barely and in 2011 about 65% were better than him and only about 31% were worse than him.

Hiller is at best a below average goalie and Ramo is a below average goalie. There is some hope for Ramo though, but as of the start of the season probably one of the bottom 5 combo's in the league. The good news for the goalies is that it is not the Flames worst position, RW is definitely worse and center is possibly worse.

[Oil Stain]

Arizona and Nashville while they don't have a tonne of marquee talent up front still have veteran depth throughout their forwards cores as well as good defence and goaltending. I think they stay somewhat competitive.

Ottawa, Carolina, Winnipeg, and the NYI don't look particularly good but they each have some bright points. Ottawa the least among them. They should be bad but probably not second last bad.

Florida and the Oilers both went out and signed some names but are teams that are pretty fragile and could both collapse if things go wrong out of the gate. A Luongo injury/slow start for example and the Panthers could be buried by November. They both have some bright spots and I could see some potential upside where they finish outside the bottom three.

Which leaves Calgary. Giordano looks like the lone bright spot on the team really, and I have doubts he will be able to math his career season from last year. There are only like 6 forwards with more then a season of experience that can play top 9.

Hiller has had below average stats for the last 3 seasons and Ramo's career high so far is also below average. A save percentage in the 30th range won't cut it.

The Flames might have some good youth bubbling under, but youth doesn't win you hockey games in the NHL and the Flames have gotten younger in the offseason. Most of vets they did get in the offseason aren't capable (Bollig,Engellend). They finished 4th last season and it seemed like everything was going right for them. Seeing as how the team got worse, I expect a slide.

Flames-29th.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Agreed. The Turris-MacArthur line carried Ottawa last year. They won't miss Spezza as much as people think. The real issue was coaching, which went from great two seasons ago, to real bad last season.

Funny how the Sens drop in talent level and lose their heart and soul to UFA over those two years, but somehow it's the coach's fault...

As far as Calgary goes, losing Cammalleri hurts, but that is offset by Raymond and (hopefully) a healthy Glencross. The Flames should likely tread water. One team from behind us might pass, but teams like Ottawa or Phoenix could just as easily fall behind. And I certainly cannot put Florida ahead of Calgary, so they are my vote.

[trackercowe]

^ Doesn't even mention Edmonton, haha.

[Resolute 14]

I also love the fiction that "everything went right" for the Flames. No, it didn't. Unless you choose to pretend that things like long-term injuries to major players didn't happen. Don't confuse hard work with good luck.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Sometimes I question your knowledge of hockey. The only thing Ottawa has over us is Bobby Ryan and Karlsson.

And centers and goaltending and RW. Christ Mark Stone would have a chance to be a second line winger in Calgary this year.

[Robbob]

Scrivenshas had below average stats for the last 3 seasons and Fasth's career high so far is also below average. A save percentage in the 30th range won't cut it.

The Oilers might have some good youth bubbling under, but youth doesn't win you hockey games in the NHL and the Oilers have gotten younger in the offseason. Most of vets they did get in the offseason aren't capable (Purcell ,Pouliot). They finished 3rd last season and it seemed like everything was going right for them. Seeing as how the team got worse, I expect a slide.

Oilers-29th.

[CliffFletcher]

I don't see much internal improvement on the Flames roster this season. Monahan will do well to avoid the sophomore jinx and match his production from last season. I expect one of Gaudreau or Baertshi to make the team, but I doubt they'll be as productive as Cammalleri. Backlund still has room for improvement. Granlund and Stempniak are a wash. Brodie might have another level, but I doubt Giordano does - in all likelihood, last season was a career year.

This team relied on the strong play of a handful players last season just to finish 27th, and any faltering by Giordano, Brodie, or Backlund will mean real trouble. Hiller is a below-average goalie at best who was benefited from playing on an excellent team that supported him with goals. Goal-scoring on the Flames will be down, maybe way down.

I still don't think they'll 29th, though. Probably 27-28th.

[Vulcan]

Wow, the doom and gloom around here is uninspiring.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Wow, the doom and gloom around here is uninspiring.

There's also the not insignificant number of people actually cheering for their own team to lose.

I really do hope that if we finish last, that Edmonton wins the draft lottery. Watching McDavid spend the next several years in Oilers silks would be the perfect punishment for the losing=winning crowd.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

There's also the not insignificant number of people actually cheering for their own team to lose.

I really do hope that if we finish last, that Edmonton wins the draft lottery. Watching McDavid spend the next several years in Oilers silks would be the perfect punishment for the losing=winning crowd.

I can't hope for losses either ... I tried last year, honestly tried, but couldn't do it. I love that the Islanders got their act together so that the Flames could have a really good story ...

Lots to build on with a solid 2nd half and up and coming players and still ended up with Bennett.

So that brings me to this season.

I'd take 29th and one of the franchise players in a second if I could guarantee the same type of season with effort, and pride, and culture and moving towards something.

But is that possible?

The last thing I want is one of those two players and the wheels coming off like in Edmonton.

However I'm not sure you can be that bad without "paying" for it.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

There's also the not insignificant number of people actually cheering for their own team to lose.

I really do hope that if we finish last, that Edmonton wins the draft lottery. Watching McDavid spend the next several years in Oilers silks would be the perfect punishment for the losing=winning crowd.

I think with the Hiller and Engelland signings management might be part of that insignificant number.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I can't hope for losses either ... I tried last year, honestly tried, but couldn't do it. I love that the Islanders got their act together so that the Flames could have a really good story ...

Lots to build on with a solid 2nd half and up and coming players and still ended up with Bennett.

So that brings me to this season.

I'd take 29th and one of the franchise players in a second if I could guarantee the same type of season with effort, and pride, and culture and moving towards something.

But is that possible?

The last thing I want is one of those two players and the wheels coming off like in Edmonton.

However I'm not sure you can be that bad without "paying" for it.

For Calgary, it might just be one or two injuries or a significant trade that does it.

Deal Glencross for futures and a huge sucky contract? That could be enough.

[Deegee]

WDF 19 more votes for Flames over Edmonton?

WDF!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Wow, the doom and gloom around here is uninspiring.

doom and gloom?

I don't see much of that, but I do see a team that is only one year into a rebuild and in all likelihood is still on the way down.

The kids aren't even ready to start breaking into the lineup yet, and there is still a handful of vets to be moved out over the next couple years.

So expecting much more than basement dwelling seems pretty unrealistic to me.

Having said that... so what? It's a rebuild and that should be expected. Personally, I think the rebuild is going fabulously and I am enjoying my seasons tickets more than I have in years. Not doom and gloom at all.

As for wanting the team to lose, yeah that is just brutal. However, expecting them to lose is a different thing IMO. I expect them to be bad, but I also cheer for them to win and certainly want to see a continuation of the effort and culture that we saw last year as a minimum.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I think with the Hiller and Engelland signings management might be part of that insignificant number.

Hiller is an improvement at backup, but yes, this forum also has an amazing ability to place a rather idiotic weight on the sixth defencemam.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Did the Oilers really get that much better than the Flames this summer?

I don't think so.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Sometimes I question your knowledge of hockey. The only thing Ottawa has over us is Bobby Ryan and Karlsson.

Get serious.

Centers: Turris > Stajan, Legwand > Backlund, Monahan >= Zibanejad, Smith > Bouma

RW: Ryan > Hudler, Chaisson > Colborne, Neil > Jones, Stone > McGrattan

LW: Michalek >= Glencross, MacArthur > Gaudreau, Greening >= Raymond, Hoffman > Bollig

Goal: Anderson > Ramo, Lehner > Hiller

Blue line: Karlsson > Giordano, Brodie > Cecil, Phillips > Smid, Russell > Methot, Cowan > Wideman, Wiercioch > Engelland

Ottawa is superior to the Flames at almost every position. They may nt be huge advantages, but they add up quickly. For the Flames to have a better year than the Senators they will have to see outstanding performances from Monahan, Gaudreau, Giordano, Brodie and one of the goaltenders, and probably a couple surprises along the way. I just don't see that happening.

[automaton 3]

Had to go with Carolina here, that lineup is looking pretty dismal.