Bertuzzi and Moore working on out of court settlement

[sureLoss]

According to the lawyers the settlement is conditional on confidentiality so we may never know the actual $ figures.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

And their lawyers just made 10 years worth of coin...

If they took the case on contingency, they may have earned less than their hourly rate.

[Enoch Root]

I would guess $2 to 3 mill. 5 at the absolute max

Anyone who think s Bertuzzi could cough up $10 or 20M is insane

[old-fart]

It is not just his lost NHL income that he is likely suing for. By all reports, he will never hold down a normal job, and he was a Harvard educated business major (I think). He can likely argue an almost as large post-NHL income has been lost. This was not some plug that, but for the NHL, would be in a Tim Horton's flogging double-doubles.

I suspect north of $10M total, split somehow between Bertie and the Nucks.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by old-fart

It is not just his lost NHL income that he is likely suing for. By all reports, he will never hold down a normal job, and he was a Harvard educated business major (I think). He can likely argue an almost as large post-NHL income has been lost. This was not some plug that, but for the NHL, would be in a Tim Horton's flogging double-doubles.

I suspect north of $10M total, split somehow between Bertie and the Nucks.

Are the Nucks part of the suit and settlement?

If so, then yes, the number could be somewhat higher

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by old-fart

It is not just his lost NHL income that he is likely suing for. By all reports, he will never hold down a normal job, and he was a Harvard educated business major (I think). He can likely argue an almost as large post-NHL income has been lost. This was not some plug that, but for the NHL, would be in a Tim Horton's flogging double-doubles.

I suspect north of $10M total, split somehow between Bertie and the Nucks.

Hard to prove lost income from a job you never had is it not? Especially because this case is in Canada (wouldn't it be?)? Making the burden of proof harder than the sue happy USA?

[CaptainCrunch]

I really heavily doubt that Moore would settle for between 1 and 5 million. To be honest it wouldn't be worth his time and would be somewhat insulting.

[dustygoon]

I know it is a civil case vs Bert, but the league probably will owe something at some point. Surprised this isn't a three way deal. Doesn't look good when players are suing eachother

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Hard to prove lost income from a job you never had is it not? Especially because this case is in Canada (wouldn't it be?)? Making the burden of proof harder than the sue happy USA?

No harder than proving that his career might have been cut short by a different injury had Bertuzzi not assaulted him. I get that you are trying to defend the Canucks at all costs, but you can't play it both ways.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I know it is a civil case vs Bert, but the league probably will owe something at some point. Surprised this isn't a three way deal. Doesn't look good when players are suing eachother

I don't believe the NHL was a party to Moore's suit.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Hard to prove lost income from a job you never had is it not? Especially because this case is in Canada (wouldn't it be?)? Making the burden of proof harder than the sue happy USA?

No, it's not hard.
Probabilities and actuarial and economist calculations determine this.
There would also be an "other contingencies" factor built into the calculations. Meaning the probability a different issue affected his career or post-career earnings, such as any other career threatening injury.

[old-fart]

If I recall he sued Bertie and the Nucks, not the NHL. There was something about a suit against Crawford as well (I think) but that might have been between Bertie and Crawford or something... I can't recall all the details because I'm an old-fart.

Yes, it is somewhat hard to prove lost income from a job you never had, but you can certainly look at a bunch of Harvard (or Ivy league school) business grads, with a high profile sports career, and look at what the average of them have gone on to do post playing career. Similar to how you can look at his NHL career to that point, look at other players NHL career to the same age with the same background, and project what his likely NHL income would have been had he not been attacked from behind.

It makes no difference that he "might" have gotten injured at some other point in his career, just like it makes no difference that he "might" have gotten hit by a car later that very night if he didn't take an ambulance to the hospital.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Any idea what Moore was earning at time of injury?

25 at time of event. Surely, lost earning potential has to come into play here? And I get he wasn't a superstar. Regardless, if so I would guess >$10M. 10-20?

I'm thinking 10 million too.
I was just saying $65 million is absolutely insane. You can't sue a guy into bankruptcy.

[MissTeeks]

Or not:

Michael Grange‏@michaelgrange6 mins

According to Geoff Adair, lawyer for Todd Bertuzzi; there is a 'potential problem' re: settlement.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by old-fart

If I recall he sued Bertie and the Nucks, not the NHL. There was something about a suit against Crawford as well (I think) but that might have been between Bertie and Crawford or something... I can't recall all the details because I'm an old-fart.

Yes, it is somewhat hard to prove lost income from a job you never had, but you can certainly look at a bunch of Harvard (or Ivy league school) business grads, with a high profile sports career, and look at what the average of them have gone on to do post playing career. Similar to how you can look at his NHL career to that point, look at other players NHL career to the same age with the same background, and project what his likely NHL income would have been had he not been attacked from behind.

It makes no difference that he "might" have gotten injured at some other point in his career, just like it makes no difference that he "might" have gotten hit by a car later that very night if he didn't take an ambulance to the hospital.

there was some contention in the case about where he could have done as a Harvard business grad though

“Steve Moore is unable to obtain employment commensurate to anywhere near his high intellect and Harvard degree,” Danson told the court, referring to reports by career experts he has filed.

But the lawyer for Orca Bay, the former owner of the Vancouver Canucks, argued otherwise.

Alan D’Silva referred to applications Moore made to the Harvard and Stanford MBA programs in 2010 in which Moore writes about receiving $104,000 for work.

Moore wrote the Graduate Management Admissions Test as part of his applications and scored in the 88th percentile.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by polak

I'm thinking 10 million too.
I was just saying $65 million is absolutely insane. You can't sue a guy into bankruptcy.

Of course you can sue someone into bankruptcy. You'll never collect the full award, obviously.

Also, the $65 million claim was absurdly high by design and it is extremely doubtful that Moore ever expected to get something close to that. But that does help set the parameters for negotiations. Realistically, I expect he will get something in the neighbourhood of $4-7 million. But if he had sued for $10 million, he'd probably end up with $1-2 mil.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by old-fart

If I recall he sued Bertie and the Nucks, not the NHL. There was something about a suit against Crawford as well (I think) but that might have been between Bertie and Crawford or something... I can't recall all the details because I'm an old-fart.

Bertuzzi sued Crawford in an attempt to make the coach liable for his actions. They settled a couple years ago, terms undisclosed (of course).

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by old-fart

If I recall he sued Bertie and the Nucks, not the NHL. There was something about a suit against Crawford as well (I think) but that might have been between Bertie and Crawford or something... I can't recall all the details because I'm an old-fart.

Yes, it is somewhat hard to prove lost income from a job you never had, but you can certainly look at a bunch of Harvard (or Ivy league school) business grads, with a high profile sports career, and look at what the average of them have gone on to do post playing career. Similar to how you can look at his NHL career to that point, look at other players NHL career to the same age with the same background, and project what his likely NHL income would have been had he not been attacked from behind.

It makes no difference that he "might" have gotten injured at some other point in his career, just like it makes no difference that he "might" have gotten hit by a car later that very night if he didn't take an ambulance to the hospital.

Yes it does.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by polak

I'm thinking 10 million too.
I was just saying $65 million is absolutely insane. You can't sue a guy into bankruptcy.

Of course you can.

Bertie (and/or the Nucks) ability to pay the judgement has nothing to do with the award of the judgement (at least, I don't think it does). Bertie and/or the Nucks will either need to pony up or work out a payment plan as part of the settlement.

[Enoch Root]

of course you can sue someone into bankruptcy, but why would Bertuzzi willingly settle into bankruptcy?

if it is going to destroy him financially anyway, he may as well fight and hope for the best