Electrical Question - Kitchen Reno

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by woob

I did a kitchen reno a couple years back, and had the same ease of access to the panel, as it was right below the kitchen.

1. Take out the drywall from above counter plugs down.
2. Wire to your content, adding in more circuits/plugs than you think you'll need.
3. Drywall back up and tape/mud.
4. Put your cabinets in.

I tried to figure out how I could cut corners here and make things work there, but in the end going the route I did was the best choice and was not that bad, work wise. Being that the drywall is behind cabinets/backsplash, there wasn't a lot of sanding required (unless you're an awful mudder).

End result is I had enough 20amp circuits, had ample plugs, and I passed inspection first time.

I am the world's worst mudder, but my wife is pretty good at it. I'm still leaning towards just having my electrician do it, but I'll mull it over. It would be a lot simpler for timelines if I did that receptacle myself.

[llwhiteoutll]

Also keep in mind you might run into AFCI requirements. Any new branch circuit or modification to an existing branch circuit (adding length/receptacles) needs to meet current code.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Also keep in mind you might run into AFCI requirements. Any new branch circuit or modification to an existing branch circuit (adding length/receptacles) needs to meet current code.

Yes almost everything has to be AFCI protected now, however I would only put in an AFCI breaker for this type of circuit if I pulled in a homeowners permit. AFCI protection is a total crock, but it is code. No electrician doing this little work will pull a permit for it, I wouldn't worry about buying an AFCI breaker at $70 versus a regular breaker for $15 as long as you don't pull a permit. If you do get one it has to be AFCI.

[Flames_Gimp]

if you do get a CAFCI breaker, go to eecole electric - $20 cheaper than home depot!

[PsYcNeT]

So I ran my own cable and pulled a Homeowner's permit, and yep, gotta install a combination AFCI breaker. Ordered one from Gescan.com (reasonable prices) which had the Siemens breaker I needed on sale for 54 bucks. At least he gave me a first pass "with conditions". Oh well, what's another 60 bucks in a kitchen reno :/

[speede5]

It's worth it for peace of mind.

[kevman]

What circuit required the AFCI, the Microwave? Is this new? Last I checked the only circuits that needed AFCI's were bedrooms - when did this change?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by kevman

What circuit required the AFCI, the Microwave? Is this new? Last I checked the only circuits that needed AFCI's were bedrooms - when did this change?

All new electrical circuits in Calgary require an CAFCI now. I can confirm that in my sister's brand new Auburn Bay house built this year that their entire panel is full of CAFCIs.

Was pretty easy to install at least. Has neat LEDs.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by kevman

What circuit required the AFCI, the Microwave? Is this new? Last I checked the only circuits that needed AFCI's were bedrooms - when did this change?

Any circuit providing 125v at 15a or 20a requires one. Only exception is where a GFCI will be used. If you modify an existing circuit, the new portions have to meet current code as well.

Can either use a breaker in the panel or the first receptacle/blank face in a circuit can be used as the protection.

[kevman]

Well I'll be damned:

On Jan. 1, 2015, the Canadian Electrical Code requirements for arc-fault protection changed. Special
wiring methods are required for most residential outlet branch circuits. All branch circuits in a
dwelling supplying 125V outlets rated 20A or less are to be protected by a combination-type
arc-fault circuit interrupter (AFCI).

http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Documen...ide%202016.pdf

That sounds expensive...

[speede5]

Expensive today, hopefully it drives the price of them down. Seems like massive overkill to me.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by speede5

Expensive today, hopefully it drives the price of them down. Seems like massive overkill to me.

Not only is it expensive, it's also impractical for certain loads. I've seen many false trips on motors (treadmills, heavy duty mixers) and certain types of light bulbs (fluorescent). I'm not saying these will 100% trip every time on an AFCI breaker, but there can be nuisance tripping.

[PsYcNeT]

I think the weirdest part is that even though cAFCIs are required, Home Depot doesn't even carry the combination model my box required, only the AFCI model. I mean, online was cheaper anyway and it shipped from a warehouse in Calgary, but it's still strange.

[ken0042]

So how is it that my house that was built in 2015 (Foundation started in 2014- framing and electrical done in 2015) didn't need these? Or the basement plugs I had inspected in Dec 2015 also passed just fine?

Seems odd that it would be required, but not noted on any inspections.

[PaperBagger'14]

They only come into effect if the electrical permit was pulled after Jan 1 2015. Your permit would have been pulled in 2014 sometime.

[ken0042]

I was thinking that- but my homeowner permit was pulled in June 2015.

[speede5]

You had a nice inspector.

He probably considered the start date of construction not the date the permit was pulled.

[speede5]

Sask didn't adopt the 2015 code until Jun 2016. AB was Jan1st. Crazy.

[DropIt]

Yeah, the announcements of the changes were in the middle of the year but if i remember correctly inspectors (in the Red Deer area) didnt start enforcing the rule until about October 1st of 2015 along with the smoke detector changes.

I'd still be curious to know what circuit your inspector wanted on an AFCI breaker in your kitchen? As far as the last houses we did, we used AFCI for all dining room, bedrooms, hallways and living rooms.

Either way, it's a complete mopney grab, and good luck running a vacuum cleaner.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by DropIt

Either way, it's a complete mopney grab, and good luck running a vacuum cleaner.

What's your thinking on this?

I regularly run a vacuum cleaner off of AFCI protected outlets with no issues.