Walton International Goup, related entities obtain creditor protection CCAA

[mrkajz44]

Yeah, I thought that responding to the "deep south" comment might de-rail this, so apologies. I did do something constructive earlier in the thread and learned about Chapter 7 v 11, so I'd say my thread contribution is neutral at this point.

[Southside]

http://www.financialpost.com/m/wp/ne...les-under-ccaa

[Gobsgraham]

I was under the impression that as an investor you owned the title to the land. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Gobsgraham

I was under the impression that as an investor you owned the title to the land. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Older projects were set up this way. They changed it a few years ago and this peeved a lot of long time investors. The newer ones were LP's, I believe. They likely knew the music was going to stop soon so made the change. I always thought it was scummy when they paid their sales people​ something like 13% commissions then "guaranteed" double digit returns. Smoke and mirrors.

[Yoho]

Mark and Lothar will be forced to go back to working at Kicks in Calgary.

[troutman]

Good Night John-Boy.

[CedarMeter]

So let's say someone invested 25 grand into this company. What are the chances of them getting their money back in this type of situation?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the whole reason of CCAA was to prevent creditors from getting anything for a short time period (2 years or so), so the company could hopefully turn things around and restructure?

Originally Posted by Weitz

Yah my parent company was just in CCAA protection (chapter 11 in the US) and we took about 5 or 6 months to restructure and came out of it essentially all good now as far as I know. A couple investors/creditors got screwed but the banks are happy for the most part I think.

The intention is to restructure, which usually means creditors take a big haircut. However, the list of failed CCAAs that turn into straight liquidation bankruptcy/receiverships is probably way longer than the successes.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by CedarMeter

So let's say someone invested 25 grand into this company. What are the chances of them getting their money back in this type of situation?

I think it depends on what project the money is invested in. The US holdings are not included in this restructuring and are doing pretty well, especially given the currency appreciation. But like the other poster said, I don't hold much hope for a profitable restructuring in their CCAA application. They can't sell investments now either so they will have a hard time bringing in new money. If they can liquidate effectively without getting sued by every second person with a debt, then investors might get some money back. But these things can go sideways so fast and you can wind up with very little in the end.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CedarMeter

So let's say someone invested 25 grand into this company. What are the chances of them getting their money back in this type of situation?

Their projects are all so separate, and the investment vehicles were different for the more recent ones, so it's hard to say. At the end of the day, have a look at the land value of the project, the secured creditors ahead of you, cut the value way down because it's close to a fire sale situation, and then add in professional fees (there are three big law firms plus E&Y already involved). Your land value better be pretty solid for a return to be expected.

Getting back even a fractional amount would likely be a win.

[Regular_John]

Walton was a client at one of my previous agencies, back in 2013 when they had a number of layoffs we ended up securing a lot of the work that was previously being done in house.

On the short term it was a win for our agency, but I remember thinking at the time it wasn't a good indication for long term work.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CedarMeter

So let's say someone invested 25 grand into this company. What are the chances of them getting their money back in this type of situation?

Snowball's chance in Hell.

While its a restructure there are likely countless others higher up in the pecking order.

They'll likely get sold a dog and pony show about 'still needing the capital for another project' followed by a long, long silence.

[OMG!WTF!]

I just saw this review and opinion of what might be an expected outcome....

http://cawidgets.morningstar.ca/Arti...n-CA&id=809634

It says the 70 limited partnerships that are not included in the ccaa filing will still be bogged down and likely liquidated to pay some of the existing debt. So it sounds like instead of seeing total losses for some people they will be spreading it out, possibly even taking what is left over and creating a new entity. I think you'd be very lucky to get anything back now no matter what area you're involved with.

The crazy numbers to me are 86000 investors and 5.1 billion in assets. That's a pretty small slice per investor.

[OMG!WTF!]

A couple friends with Walton investments said they heard from the company today and they will be consolidating all the properties and investment companies into a single entity and then issuing shares to the investors. Some of the properties have been sold to cover expenses and others financed to do the same. So the over all value of shares will be less than the original investment but it sounds like it's a much better way forward. They didn't indicate what the write down would be and I don't think they are recognizing individual properties anymore. I think some people with the lesser assets will be quite thrilled while others with better original investments will be ticked.

[Alpaca]

Did anyone attend the meetings today or have news on how the vote turned out.