The New American Politics thread

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

That's fine I would never dispute that it's bad little girls (or boys) dream big and make the most of their lives. I'm just saying president isn't really what it used to be and its less about the person and more about the machine.

I didn't say anything about Trump, the guy is hopeless and also a product of the same thing.

But is that really the moment to make that point? Everyone knows politics is ugly business, that's not a mystery to me or anyone else who knows anything at all about it.

Regardless, tonight I saw women who battled their way into the House and Senate, who fought so hard to lay the path for other women to go further than they were able to, women who were emotional because finally, we're represented. Finally, we have someone at the table.

These women whose mothers and grandmothers were part of the suffragette movement, who now know their daughters and granddaughters can dream of being the most powerful person in the world are affected by this moment.

This may seem silly to someone whose rights to vote, own land, etc, etc were never in question. But for people who have had to fight for every step forward--every step is amazing and touching.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

And her candidacy, especially in this year, proves how hard it is for women to attain to something like possibly becoming President of the US.

She's running against a man whose candidacy is based on mocking people, poor business dealings, a reality TV show, and appearing to want to bang his own daughter.

Hillary had more political experience before her husband was elected President than Trump has now--and yet she's still treated like she doesn't deserve it by a huge segment of the population.

But no matter what, there are girls growing up in school now who can write "when I grow up" papers about being President--and they won't be treated as novelty or cutesy. Because women like Hillary keep fighting against an old boys club working so hard to keep them out.

And to me, for those wide-eyed girls with big dreams and high hopes--this is an amazing moment, a beautiful moment, and I am so happy to see those girls grow up and take it all over.

Edit: Also no, seriously, take this crap elsewhere. Women were not even allowed to vote until 100 years ago, and finally, finally we have a woman who actually has the chance to win the Presidency. Politics are ugly, everyone knows that, but this is an historic moment that has huge implications for every single woman in this country. If you can't grasp that, stop speaking.

I don't think her issues are a result of people thinking she's underqualified though, or that she's a woman. There are legitimate questions about her that are independent of her gender. I think if another woman was running who was as qualified, this would be the most laughably lopsided election in recent memory.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't think her issues are a result of people thinking she's underqualified though, or that she's a woman. There are legitimate questions about her that are independent of her gender. I think if another woman was running who was as qualified, this would be the most laughably lopsided election in recent memory.

Couldn't agree more. Again, watching the convention last night... if you can imagine if you substituted in Michelle Obama's personality and charisma and gave her all of Hillary's other attributes, experience and record, she might win 50 states.

Ok, actually no, but she'd win the election for sure.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Yeah, I don't understand how Hillary hasn't been better coached. She always seems to be talking like she doesn't have a microphone when she does. Like, listen to Michelle last night. That cadence and tone was fantastic technically.

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I really hope Hillary can just speak normally on Thursday. I'm with you, when I hear her speak sometimes she yells like there's no microphone on.

If she's calm on Thursday and hits all the major talking points she wants to make it will be a home run.

edit: okay, apparently CHL and I think the same.

My feeling is that she sees, or has seen, many other good speakers captivate their audience by speaking strongly and projecting to the room which gets attention and she tries to do the same but she fails miserably.

If she doesn't yell on Thursday and instead just talks to her supporters it would be a huge win for her.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

But is that really the moment to make that point? Everyone knows politics is ugly business, that's not a mystery to me or anyone else who knows anything at all about it.

Regardless, tonight I saw women who battled their way into the House and Senate, who fought so hard to lay the path for other women to go further than they were able to, women who were emotional because finally, we're represented. Finally, we have someone at the table.

These women whose mothers and grandmothers were part of the suffragette movement, who now know their daughters and granddaughters can dream of being the most powerful person in the world are affected by this moment.

This may seem silly to someone whose rights to vote, own land, etc, etc were never in question. But for people who have had to fight for every step forward--every step is amazing and touching.

Well I'm not a woman nor am I even watching the DNC so I'm not in the same emotional zone as you I guess so for that I apologize if I came across as insensitive. I didn't even realize my post would be regarded so negatively for stating what you yourself agree is the obvious.

If this opens the gates for other women who are good leaders to have the confidence to run then that's good. I think gender is largely irrelevant though because the nation is in desperate need of quality leadership regardless of sex.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

As an American woman, that we've finally got an actual female nominee for a major political party--it has hit me really, really hard. Growing up as a girl, you never really dreamed of being president. It just wasn't really a thought. Girls my age didn't really get that dream.

But girls now can look at this and realize they can do this, or anything else. It's a massive step for women, and while it's sad that it took us so long to get here--this whole moment is so huge, and I'm so glad to be alive to appreciate it.

Michelle Obama talked about this yesterday with Black kids coming up to her husband and being like "he has the same hair as me, and he's president". It's a big ####ing deal.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't think her issues are a result of people thinking she's underqualified though, or that she's a woman. There are legitimate questions about her that are independent of her gender. I think if another woman was running who was as qualified, this would be the most laughably lopsided election in recent memory.

Disagree entirely. She is under way more scrutiny because she's a woman and because politics in the U.S. has literally become "a game".

[nik-]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Disagree entirely. She is under way more scrutiny because she's a woman and because politics in the U.S. has literally become "a game".

Naw, she's under way more scrutiny because she's a Clinton.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

My feeling is that she sees, or has seen, many other good speakers captivate their audience by speaking strongly and projecting to the room which gets attention and she tries to do the same but she fails miserably.

Could be that, but some people just aren't naturals at it and never will be. She's not really bad IMO, because it's a hard thing to do and she never embarrasses herself.

Recently I was volunteered to speak in front of 300 people and went into the cold sweats immediately and talked my way out of it. Even if people aren't good at public speaking, I'm impressed that they can get up there to do it all. It is to me (and the majority of people I assume) the hardest thing to do. To do it well is a rare talent.

[Mr.Coffee]

This is all kind of my point, I didn't do a good job trying to make it.

It's great and all its a woman or black man or whatever that's become president but:
A) whatever "growth" this demonstrates on behalf of the American people is hard to see given all the goings on in the RNC and Republican side and support for racist and bigot positions. So I'd think some Americans show growth but do they outnumber the amount of people heading backwards in time?
B) the main thing it suggests to me is that the democratic machine only (because good luck with the republicans) won't discriminate on gender or race which is great (I do agree witty). But these people are still tools selected by a machine and essentially corrupt political system to be bought and paid for by big business.

I'm not sure why Americans aren't more up in arms about their broken system.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

This is all kind of my point, I didn't do a good job trying to make it.

It's great and all its a woman or black man or whatever that's become president but:
A) whatever "growth" this demonstrates on behalf of the American people is hard to see given all the goings on in the RNC and Republican side and support for racist and bigot positions. So I'd think some Americans show growth but do they outnumber the amount of people heading backwards in time?
B) the main thing it suggests to me is that the democratic machine only (because good luck with the republicans) won't discriminate on gender or race which is great (I do agree witty). But these people are still tools selected by a machine and essentially corrupt political system.

I'm not sure why Americans aren't more up in arms about their broken system.

Americans are so up in arms about the broken system they're willing to vote Trump. They're very upset.

No matter what system, it can break. No matter how good the intentions, ####ty things can result.

We hear about how broken the system is in the states, but do you know who still holds the ultimate power? The people. They simply have to decide how much they're willing to be herded

[driveway]

I'm currently in the middle of a book about the election of 1800.

The American political system is exactly the same as it's always been: the 'machine', the high barriers to entry, the party machinations.

That a woman is following a black man is impressive, and if you think the functioning of "the system" somehow lessens that, you need to read more history.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by driveway

I'm currently in the middle of a book about the election of 1800.

The American political system is exactly the same as it's always been: the 'machine', the high barriers to entry, the party machinations.

That a woman is following a black man is impressive, and if you think the functioning of "the system" somehow lessens that, you need to read more history.

Please give me some stuff to read then!

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I didn't state you were an #######. I said you're like psycnet (aka you don't contribute anymore). She made a naive post and I didn't reveal a big secret to her?

I didn't think pointing out the obvious was being an #######. Here let me rephrase:

Good luck witty that sounds terrific!

My ears are burning!

Also at least like, 50% of my posts are non-snark, it just happens that most of them are in the Tech forum.

On topic, Bill's speech was amazing. I couldn't stop smiling just watching the guy, it's crazy.

[Caged Great]

Another near perfect day for the Dems. I thought Bill's speech throughout was great.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by driveway

I'm currently in the middle of a book about the election of 1800.

The American political system is exactly the same as it's always been: the 'machine', the high barriers to entry, the party machinations.

That a woman is following a black man is impressive, and if you think the functioning of "the system" somehow lessens that, you need to read more history.

I find it hard to believe that elections were as expensive as they are now or that business had as much influence over key issues gripping the nation so in earnest please let me know what historical sources I'm missing. I'm pretty doubtful we're in an age "just like it's always been".

Also as to street pharmas post, Trump is not a solution to toppling the apple cart because he's an exact construct of the system, it's just he's run a campaign marketing that he is the man fighting the machine. We know that the gyst of his campaign is lies, he will not institute the change to the system that's needed and you know that, come on.

I'm of the opinion that the system will change eventually but it'll be more in the form of revolution once the divide between rich and poor grows to unsustainable levels and the realization of the American Dream no longer existing for the majority of the population manifests itself into something much more concerning. I hope my pessimistic view is wrong and I hope that if I'm right it's not in my lifetime.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I find it hard to believe that elections were as expensive as they are now or that business had as much influence over key issues gripping the nation so in earnest please let me know what historical sources I'm missing. I'm pretty doubtful we're in an age "just like it's always been".

Also as to street pharmas post, Trump is not a solution to toppling the apple cart because he's an exact construct of the system, it's just he's run a campaign marketing that he is the man fighting the machine. We know that the gyst of his campaign is lies, he will not institute the change to the system that's needed and you know that, come on.

I'm of the opinion that the system will change eventually but it'll be more in the form of revolution once the divide between rich and poor grows to unsustainable levels and the realization of the American Dream no longer existing for the majority of the population manifests itself into something much more concerning. I hope my pessimistic view is wrong and I hope that if I'm right it's not in my lifetime.

Well, in 1800, New York had a state election, important because the members of the Electoral College for New York would be chosen by the State Legislature, control that and you get all New York's EC votes.

New York City voted as a whole for all it's state reps. 13 reps, chosen based on city-wide votes.

Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton faced off as the people behind the Republican (today's Democrats) and Federalist parties, respectively.

At the time, all the banks in New York were Federalist, meaning artisans, crafters, and merchants couldn't express Republican sentiment or face losing access to credit, so Burr founded a whole new bank. With the funds of this bank and the merchants who could now be political without fear of economic reprisal, Burr organized a get-out-the-vote effort in the poor/immigrant 6th and 7th wards which ultimately handed New York's legislature to the Republicans.

Hamilton then tried to get the lame-duck state legislature to switch the way New York picked it's Electors, trying to get them to go to a district-by-district election. This exact proposal had, in fact, just recently been REJECTED by Hamilton's Federalists when they thought they were going to get all New York's EC's.

John Jay, then governor, did not effect Hamilton's proposal.

Terrified of Jefferson, Federalists would write: "Merchants, your ships will be condemned to rot in your harbors, for Jefferson will destroy the Navy. The temples of the most high will be profaned by impious orgies to the Goddess of Reason."

A Magnificent Catastrophe, Edward J. Larson.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

For anyone interested in closing the loop on the weird "Freedom Kids" dance troupe that performed at a Trump rally a while back:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/26/politi...uit/index.html

There are no words.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

For anyone interested in closing the loop on the weird "Freedom Kids" dance troupe that performed at a Trump rally a while back:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/26/politi...uit/index.html

There are no words.

There have been many great/surreal moments in the last year(?) of this absurd contest, but that one will always be my favourite. It was just so weird.

For a guy who never stops talking about how much money he has, Trump sure has a habit of not paying people the money he owes 'em. It makes you wonder if some of the promises he's made and things he's said aren't going to come true at all!

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Him not releasing his tax returns will be a huge issue from here on out. If he was clean he would have done it by now and bragged about it. Obviously something is stinky.