07-24-2017, 08:22 PM
|
#81
|
Franchise Player
|
1) Joey Mullen from Blues
2) Joe Nieuwendyk from North Stars
3) Kipper from Sharks
4) Gilmour and Mark Hunter from Blues
5) Rick Nattress from Blues
|
|
|
07-24-2017, 08:42 PM
|
#82
|
In the Sin Bin
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSharp
2) Joe Nieuwendyk from North Stars
|
Am I missing something? Nieuwendyk was drafted by the Flames, they didn't trade for him. Or am I tripping
|
|
|
07-24-2017, 08:52 PM
|
#83
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Calgary
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Am I missing something? Nieuwendyk was drafted by the Flames, they didn't trade for him. Or am I tripping
|
You are correct. He was drafted 27th overall in 85 by the Flames.
|
|
|
07-24-2017, 10:01 PM
|
#84
|
Backup Goalie
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ricci's Ugly
Exp:
|
Admittedly the Mullen and Nieuwendyk trades were before my time. Therefore my answer will be from 2004 when we acquired Kiprusoff.
It was the first time in my life the flames had been relevant when it came to the playoff picture during mid-season. I remember getting to school the morning after the trade and my friend asking "who the hell is Miikka Kiprusoff?". Normally I had these answers, but I couldn't find one for him. IIRC we lost 6-5 in OT during Kipper's first start.
We obviously know how the rest of that story goes, but something about the ebs and flows of the 03/04 season make that trade special to me as a flames fan. The unfamiliar aspect gets me every time. He essentially came out of nowhere and changed our season. Since then we've seen highly anticipated trades (first Jokinen trade, Bouwmeester trade and sign), but nothing has quite compared in my eyes.
Vlasic has been amazing for the Sharks, but what that trade did for this franchise in my time cheering for it gives it my vote.
|
|
|
07-24-2017, 10:06 PM
|
#85
|
Threadkiller
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: 51.0544° N, 114.0669° W
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by N-E-B
You are correct. He was drafted 27th overall in 85 by the Flames.
|
The Flames traded Nilson to the North Stars for the 2nd round draft pick (27)
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to ricosuave For This Useful Post:
|
|
07-25-2017, 03:58 AM
|
#86
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ontario
|
Then it was Nilson for a pick, it wasn't player for player. I think the bigger fleecing was nieuwendyk to the stats for Iggy who was drafted by the stars.
__________________
Fan of the Flames, where being OK has become OK.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Poe969 For This Useful Post:
|
|
07-25-2017, 08:56 AM
|
#87
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo
Admittedly the Mullen and Nieuwendyk trades were before my time. Therefore my answer will be from 2004 when we acquired Kiprusoff.
It was the first time in my life the flames had been relevant when it came to the playoff picture during mid-season. I remember getting to school the morning after the trade and my friend asking "who the hell is Miikka Kiprusoff?". Normally I had these answers, but I couldn't find one for him. IIRC we lost 6-5 in OT during Kipper's first start.
|
Nah man, we won!
|
|
|
07-25-2017, 08:58 AM
|
#88
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poe969
Then it was Nilson for a pick, it wasn't player for player. I think the bigger fleecing was nieuwendyk to the stats for Iggy who was drafted by the stars.
|
I'm sure the Stars (or North Stars), looking back at history, felt they got really fleeced by that deal. The Magic Man didn't get them anywhere. On top of that, Nilson went to the Oilers and won a cup there. I actually consider the Nieuwendyk/Iggy trade even as it worked out for both sides. Stars got their Cup with Nieuwy and Flames got a franchise player and HOF with Iggy.
|
|
|
07-25-2017, 09:22 AM
|
#89
|
First Line Centre
|
Kipper for the win.
|
|
|
07-25-2017, 10:18 AM
|
#90
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy
Kipper for a 2nd was a great trade for us.
For the Sharks, they traded their 3rd string goalie for a 2nd round pick and turned that pick into a 1st pairing Dman, and they've never had a void at the goaltending position due to trading away Kipper.
That trade was not a "fleecing" in any way, shape or form.
It was a solid trade for both teams.
|
It doesn't matter who they picked
It's the value of the pick, not the player it turned out to be
If the flames traded Matt stajan for the 1st overall pick next year it's an incredible trade, if they pick the next Yakupov or Daigle etc. And it busts that doesn't make it a bad trade
Who the team drafted is seperate
|
|
|
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to d_phaneuf For This Useful Post:
|
|
07-25-2017, 11:35 AM
|
#91
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaskal
This is generally my take on the definition of a "fleecing", although it seems from the responses in this thread like the general CP populace favors the definition of overall value garnered vs price spent, with the Kiprusoff pick.
|
Which is frankly a dumb way to look at it. It's irrelevant if a pick or a player exceeds the recognized value at the time of the trade. Kipper did not have a lot of value at the time of the trade. The 2nd rounder SJ used to pick Vlasic did not have much value at the time of the trade. It wasn't a fleecing by anybody.
Otherwise you have the absurd scenario where if the Flames trade Backlund tomorrow for a 2nd round pick, and that 2nd round pick turns out to be a Hall of Flames defenseman, then that's a fleecing by Treliving. It wouldn't be. A 2nd round pick is extremely unlikely to turn out to be a better player than Backlund. Trading him for a 2nd round pick would be a bad trade.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
|
|
|
|
07-25-2017, 11:50 AM
|
#92
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
Which is frankly a dumb way to look at it. It's irrelevant if a pick or a player exceeds the recognized value at the time of the trade. Kipper did not have a lot of value at the time of the trade. The 2nd rounder SJ used to pick Vlasic did not have much value at the time of the trade. It wasn't a fleecing by anybody.
Otherwise you have the absurd scenario where if the Flames trade Backlund tomorrow for a 2nd round pick, and that 2nd round pick turns out to be a Hall of Flames defenseman, then that's a fleecing by Treliving. It wouldn't be. A 2nd round pick is extremely unlikely to turn out to be a better player than Backlund. Trading him for a 2nd round pick would be a bad trade.
|
Some of the reactions around the league are pretty telling for how thoroughly Treliving skinned Sweeney on that trade in terms of percieved value, even if he did gift Dougie to us as an insult to Chiarelli.
- An anonymous GM was surprised Dougie was even available at all
- Many other fanbases going "how weren't we able to beat that package?"
- Boston fans rioting online
- Fierce Boston rivals like Montreal, Toronto were actually expressing their sympathies
- Not one, not two, but three threads on HF in under an hour
- "EPIC FAIL" Boston newspaper headline splash of Sweeney
I'm not sure if there was a similar reaction to older trades (I'm a 1990 birthday) but I don't recall the Kipper trade making a big splash like Dougie did.
__________________
Until the Flames make the Western Finals again, this signature shall remain frozen.
|
|
|
07-25-2017, 02:28 PM
|
#93
|
Powerplay Quarterback
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_phaneuf
It doesn't matter who they picked
It's the value of the pick, not the player it turned out to be
If the flames traded Matt stajan for the 1st overall pick next year it's an incredible trade, if they pick the next Yakupov or Daigle etc. And it busts that doesn't make it a bad trade
Who the team drafted is seperate
|
I'm with Roof-Daddy on this one - a great trade for the Flames, but a fleecing should also mean the team that got fleeced would have been way better off if it hadn't made the trade. It's debatable how much better the Sharks would have been if they'd kept Kipper.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Steve Bozek For This Useful Post:
|
|
07-25-2017, 02:36 PM
|
#94
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poe969
Then it was Nilson for a pick, it wasn't player for player. I think the bigger fleecing was nieuwendyk to the stats for Iggy who was drafted by the stars.
|
I think both the Stars and Flames made out OK in that trade. Nieuwy led them to a Cup, and Flames got a franchise winger who basically led them to a Cup. Would hardly call it a fleecing.
|
|
|
07-25-2017, 02:48 PM
|
#95
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_phaneuf
It doesn't matter who they picked
It's the value of the pick, not the player it turned out to be
If the flames traded Matt stajan for the 1st overall pick next year it's an incredible trade, if they pick the next Yakupov or Daigle etc. And it busts that doesn't make it a bad trade
Who the team drafted is seperate
|
Defnitely disagree with your take on this. I feel there are 2 ways to evaluate a trade when a draft pick is involved.
I mean in the case of Kipper a 3rd string goalie for a 2nd is a win for the Sharks. Fast forward several months and Kipper has carried the Flames to game 6 of the SCF with the Flames holding the 3-2 lead. Trade immediately swings heavily in the Flames favor and it appears to be a pure fleecing.
Ask a sharks fan in the last 5 years and they now have Vlassic to show for Kipper and many Shark fans will agree that was a great trade for both teams.
The Hamilton trade is different in regards to what Dougie was when he was dealt. He was a 22 year old that was coming off a 40Pt season and was a top 10 pick 4 years before he was traded. Based on the first 2 years since the trade it does look like Calgary fleeced Boston badly. In 5 years if one or more of those picks pans out to be a player as good or better than Dougie I don't think it will be the fleecing we call it today.
Some may say the Flames overpaid for Hamonic but if he has a long successful career in Calgary and those picks all bust then it will be remembered years down the road as a fleecing by the Flames.
In short there are 2 ways and times to evaluate player for pick trades. At the time of the deal and 5 years later.
As a Canucks fan where do you stand on the Baertschi trade? Does the interpretation of the deal not change based on how well Andersen does? Sven has been decent in Vancouver and he could play there for 10 years averaging 25 goals and 50pta playing in the top 6.. Good value for a 2nd rounder. If Andersen turns into a top pairing 40pt Dman do you think Flames fans will feel they got fleeced. If everything else remains the same and Andersen completely busts out wouldn't Canuck fans feel they fleeced Calgary?
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Vinny01 For This Useful Post:
|
|
07-25-2017, 08:53 PM
|
#96
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_phaneuf
It doesn't matter who they picked
It's the value of the pick, not the player it turned out to be
If the flames traded Matt stajan for the 1st overall pick next year it's an incredible trade, if they pick the next Yakupov or Daigle etc. And it busts that doesn't make it a bad trade
Who the team drafted is seperate
|
3rd string goalie for a 2nd round pick isn't a "fleecing" anyways.
It was a fair value trade at the time of the trade.
Luckily for both teams, the goalie AND the pick both turned into great assets for the teams involved.
NOT a fleecing.
|
|
|
07-26-2017, 07:45 AM
|
#97
|
First Line Centre
|
The return for Phaneuf was awesome! We got like six 3rd-line LWers and an undersized D-man. That was a fleecing if there ever was one! Thanks Sutter.
But seriously, gotta be Kipper. It was totally out of left field and turned around the franchise's fortunes for a few years.
|
|
|
08-01-2017, 07:54 PM
|
#98
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Right behind you.
|
Darren Haynes tweet today - not a single trade thing but liking this potential for the Flames.
Quote:
Was reminded today the Flames turned an expiring Hudler, Russell and unhappy Baertschi into Tyler Parsons, Dillon Dube and Rasmus Andersson.
|
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Gaudfather For This Useful Post:
|
|
08-01-2017, 08:16 PM
|
#99
|
In the Sin Bin
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaudfather
Darren Haynes tweet today - not a single trade thing but liking this potential for the Flames.
Quote:
Was reminded today the Flames turned an expiring Hudler, Russell and unhappy Baertschi into Tyler Parsons, Dillon Dube and Rasmus Andersson.
|
LOL. I'd take that over what Feaster got for Iginla/Bouwmeester. Kind of puts those deals into perspective. Although of course a huge amount of credit for Button and the scouting staff for finding some gems in the 2nd round.
|
|
|
08-01-2017, 09:00 PM
|
#100
|
Franchise Player
|
If I remember correctly Calgary wanted Todd Harvey but the Stars said no and we took Iginla as a second choice. If that is correct then I imagine the Stars would like to go back in time and change that trade.
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:57 AM.
|
|