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Old 08-27-2015, 05:47 PM   #41
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Yeah, now a days most people justify just permanently renting vehicles so they can have something newish all the time. It's a very odd line of thinking, but I totally get how people get themselves there and justify it.

Usually it's because most people have got to the point where they will always have car payments and then they take the next step of saying "Well, if I always have car payments then I might as well always have a new vehicle with those payments rather than paying something off and owning it."

Again, the reasoning doesn't make a ton of sense from a financial standpoint because obviously the idea that you should always have a car payment is flawed and usually comes more from reasoning yourself into having a nice vehicle than actual financial reasoning, but I digress.
Depending on your employment, leases are write-off-able. And since most vehicles start to rack up the R&M right around the time the financing is finished, for some people, making a car payment is easier than wondering if any big repair bills are looming. I prefer owning my truck, but my sister loves leasing a new vehicle every few years. If you looked at what we both spend, neither of us are really "winning".

I don't think it's all about the new car.
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:34 PM   #42
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highly recommend the kia sorento same size as the edge but cheaper in price and a better warranty we paid just under 26000 for our 2015 its basic model but had everything we were looking for including awd plus buying from a go auto dealership you dont have to pay document fees

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Old 08-27-2015, 07:12 PM   #43
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Look at the 2015 Murano. I bought it in Jan after looking at a few. Luv, luv, luv it.

PM if want more details or have specific questions.
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:37 PM   #44
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Audi Q5 unless you need something bigger . All discussions should start and end here !
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:20 PM   #45
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We sold our 2011 for 67% of original purchase price 3.5 years after we had purchased it.
Is this a good thing? So if you paid 50k you only sold it for about 33k? That's a $17,000 loss. That doesn't seem like a good numer in only 3.5 years.
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:29 PM   #46
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Audi Q5 unless you need something bigger . All discussions should start and end here !
Why ? The Q5 isn't particularly good at anything and there are more compelling vehicles at that price point IMO. It's also an Audi which means potential misery in terms of reliability. Former B6 S4, 90 Quattro owner who will never own another Audi.
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:35 PM   #47
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The best words of wisdom I heard when I came into the car business is, "You'll never know what your car truly costs, until you dispose of it."

If you pay $25,000 for a car you get $10,000 for in 5 years.

Or $35,000 for a car you get $22,000 for in 5 years.

Which car was really the cheaper one?

There is certainly examples this extreme out there, and even worse. The original sticker is just a small part of the equation. Buy one Korean car in your lifetime, and you will learn this lesson. At least with certain domestics, like full size trucks, you are safe. SUV's and cars? Imports are well worth the price long term.

Especially if it's a Raptor. The retained value of the Rap is quite astonishing, particularly the 6.2's.
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:48 PM   #48
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Why ? The Q5 isn't particularly good at anything and there are more compelling vehicles at that price point IMO. It's also an Audi which means potential misery in terms of reliability. Former B6 S4, 90 Quattro owner who will never own another Audi.
But it does everything quiet well. Seriously it rates incredibly high, always top 5 in class, and the resale is very high.

Used prices for this vehicle in the past 3 years have depreciated very little.

They are basically the most popular SUV in Calgary.
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:56 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by 4X4 View Post
Depending on your employment, leases are write-off-able. And since most vehicles start to rack up the R&M right around the time the financing is finished, for some people, making a car payment is easier than wondering if any big repair bills are looming. I prefer owning my truck, but my sister loves leasing a new vehicle every few years. If you looked at what we both spend, neither of us are really "winning".

I don't think it's all about the new car.
On top of that leasing the vehicle lets you vet for lemons with no risk. I wrote off my lease payments then bought out afterwards. Absolutely no regrets.

My girlfriend purchased a car for 12k used. Put money into repairs. 3 years later, it's about to die.
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Old 08-28-2015, 12:02 AM   #50
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On top of that leasing the vehicle lets you vet for lemons with no risk. I wrote off my lease payments then bought out afterwards. Absolutely no regrets.

My girlfriend purchased a car for 12k used. Put money into repairs. 3 years later, it's about to die.
Plus if you have a massive accident and the car is repaired, the leasing company has to eat the depreciation.

Also if the car is written off, you have built in GAP protection if the payout is lower than the amount owed.

And... they are assumable if you need to bail quick and owe more than the buyout.

But wait there's more... If the car turns out to be the next Pontiac Aztec, and is virtually worthless at the end, the Lessor takes the hit on 'horrible car syndrome' not the lessee.

There is a reason almost every single employee at auto dealerships, and almost every single high net worth person leases a car. Virtually all the risk is absorbed by the leasing company, as long as it is a closed end lease. This is what I tell people that say... "but, but... I don't own the car, I want to finance instead!"

"Miss 3 loan payments and tell me if you still 'own' a car."

In either scenario the bank still registers a lien, the only difference with leasing, is both parties are registered as joint owners.

There are clients we deal with, that lease everything, or one pay lease, simply for the added protection, and interestingly enough, three notable ones I can think of, are very successful Investment advisors.

Caveat: NEVER, and I mean NEVER, sign an open ended lease. They are the reason leasing got a bad name, and I don't think one manufacturer is offering them anymore. Private leasing companies however, be very careful you do not fall into the Open ended lease trap with them. They are dangerous because the residual value is not guaranteed, it is only an estimate. Best analogy is this:

Open ended lease: Open your wallet at the end.

Closed end lease: You can keep it closed.
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Old 08-28-2015, 12:33 AM   #51
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Is this a good thing? So if you paid 50k you only sold it for about 33k? That's a $17,000 loss. That doesn't seem like a good numer in only 3.5 years.
On a 50k car, $6000 in annual depreciation the first 3 years is excellent.

I have seen cars depreciate 60% in 2 years.

What a lot of people don't realize is that your value isn't dictated by retail, it is dictated by dealer cost.

Say you paid $30,000 for your 6000 SUX in 2012 and financed at 4.9% over 5 years which is $4000 in interest. Lets say dealer cost was $27,000. Your car starts depreciating at $27,000 the second you pull it off the lot. The interest isn't important yet.

Fast forward to 2015 the 6000 SUX is now in it's last model year before a major update. The manufacturer has a rebate of $5000, so the dealer cost is now, $22,000. Every new 6000 SUX is depreciating now from $22,000. Because a really savvy shopper could get this deal. Now, the manufacturer is also throwing in zero percent financing for 84 months. So you can now take $4000 dollars in borrowing costs out as well, because a private buyer will have to finance at 5%.

So now, you have $27,000 - $5000 rebate -$4000 in interest. Which puts you at $18,000. Your 2012 has 60,000 kms on it, so thats going to cost you about $2500/year. Well, your used 6000 SUX is now worth about $10500 to a dealer. Privately? Probably $14-15,000, if you can find a cash buyer. Because Joe buyer who walks into the dealer can feasibly buy the car for 22,000 at 0% over 84 months with a full warranty at $310/mth. Your $15,000 used model that needs brakes and tires anytime, and has an expiring warranty, is now $283/mth over 60 months, because the bank won't finance it longer because it is now 3 years old.

I don't know about you, but I'll pay the extra 27 bucks a month for now, and not have to worry about anything for the next 3 years.

I see this scenario every day, and people cannot grasp that used car values, are mainly dictated by what a dealer pays for a car, not the consumer. In very rare instances where supply is incredibly short, and demand is high, these rules do not apply. But if you are buying a run of the mill, soccer mom mobile, it is the reality of the situation.

I have seen countless internal studies that show that leasing, in almost every single case, is the least expensive long term car ownership option. However, I love people that finance long term, and tell me I am stupid for promoting leasing. Because it is far more profitable for us, when you use traditional financing. Even if, it is 0 percent.

Everyone assumes once they finish paying the loan, they never have to repair anything, or replace anything once they are done paying the loan. Once you hit around 120,000 kms, you will likely be paying a couple hundred a month, in upkeep and maintenance. And now your driving an outdated, tired, gravel rashed Camry covered in door dings with a raging case of shiny steering wheel and shifter syndrome, an airbag light that won't go away, 7 recalls and set of Rallye Master tires you bought at Walmart that were made in Koreikstan out of discarded tennis shoe rubber. For some people, this is OK I guess, but a lot of people take pride in what they drive as well.

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Old 08-28-2015, 01:20 AM   #52
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One last thing I will add. Almost every bank employee I have dealt with, leases.

But obviously, they wouldn't know which way is smarter.
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Old 08-28-2015, 01:48 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by jayswin View Post
Yeah, now a days most people justify just permanently renting vehicles so they can have something newish all the time. It's a very odd line of thinking, but I totally get how people get themselves there and justify it.

Usually it's because most people have got to the point where they will always have car payments and then they take the next step of saying "Well, if I always have car payments then I might as well always have a new vehicle with those payments rather than paying something off and owning it."

Again, the reasoning doesn't make a ton of sense from a financial standpoint because obviously the idea that you should always have a car payment is flawed and usually comes more from reasoning yourself into having a nice vehicle than actual financial reasoning, but I digress.
I can poke a million holes in this logic.

Unless you are incredibly lucky, you will always have a car payment. It just won't be a monthly instalment. Once you replace a $6000 transmission on a Dodge Caravan at their regular 120,000 km 'blow up' interval, you just made a payment. Then it's time for your regularly scheduled head gasket at 150k.... theres another payment....etc, etc.

However there is another aspect as well. If you can get a 'true 0%' agreement, where no dealer incentives have been forfeited to obtain it, you are now in a very grey area.

So you have 30k to buy your dream Taurus LX. And the dealer is offering you 0%. You could plop your 30k in a 2.5% GIC a make +/- $4000 over 5 years, still have your cash on hand that will grow for as long as you want, even after the car is long gone.

Even if you forfeited a $4000 rebate to obtain the zero percent, you haven't dumped all your cash, into a depreciating commodity, with a heavily uncertain future value. The net savings is around zero, but you still have cash growing at the end.

Just as you don't understand people that have payments, I don't understand people that empty their bank accounts on commodities that are guaranteed to depreciate at a rapid rate.

I however do love these car finance threads, not just because I do dealer finance for a living, but also because I get this hilarious vision that half of CP, has a 1983 two tone brown Chevrolet Caprice that needs ball joints parked in their driveway, with a weathered Landau roof, a door bell button for a starter button, and red packing tape substituting for the left tail light lens.... not the right, the left.
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Old 08-28-2015, 06:32 AM   #54
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Some people just don't give a crap what they drive, though. I'd rather spend money on other things. I bought a 1992 Corsica for my first car for $800. Drove it until dead, barley spent a penny on it. Bought my parent's old minivan, drove until dead, put in a couple rad hoses, muffler and battery. Now have a 2002 pickup for $4300. Haven't put a cent into it, other than winter tires. Will drive until dead. That's almost 20 years of driving for under $7000. And I don't have to worry about putting scratches on them, can throw bikes in them, construction stuff...
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Old 08-28-2015, 08:32 AM   #55
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I drive a 2014 nissan rogue and it has been a great vehicle, try to add that to you test drive list
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Old 08-28-2015, 01:32 PM   #56
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Hum, lease or buy? I think it all depends on your personal situation. I'm retired and don't drive enough to consider $500 + monthly payments for either option as good use of my money. I own a 12 year old Escape with 140,000 kilometers on it and it still runs and looks fine. The other month I spent $250 to have it detailed and it looked like new. Yeah, I don't have a built in wi-fi, etc. but I can do without that as I'm just happy to have air conditioning and power windows and 4x4. Unless some great deal comes along or it suddenly falls apart, I'll probably drive it until it dies. I've owned a few new vehicles but mostly I buy used and run them until they die. I don't like payments and and find it amusing that most people take it as just a part of life.
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Old 08-28-2015, 01:37 PM   #57
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Say you paid $30,000 for your 6000 SUX
Nice reference.

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Old 08-28-2015, 01:55 PM   #58
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Nice reference.

Does it have a Blaupunkt?!!
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Old 08-28-2015, 02:22 PM   #59
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I drive a 2014 nissan rogue and it has been a great vehicle, try to add that to you test drive list
How do you find the engine power?
I always liked Nissans, but from the reviews I read, many considered spending a bit more and getting the Murano instead
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Old 08-28-2015, 02:45 PM   #60
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Hum, lease or buy? I think it all depends on your personal situation. I'm retired and don't drive enough to consider $500 + monthly payments for either option as good use of my money. I own a 12 year old Escape with 140,000 kilometers on it and it still runs and looks fine. The other month I spent $250 to have it detailed and it looked like new. Yeah, I don't have a built in wi-fi, etc. but I can do without that as I'm just happy to have air conditioning and power windows and 4x4. Unless some great deal comes along or it suddenly falls apart, I'll probably drive it until it dies. I've owned a few new vehicles but mostly I buy used and run them until they die. I don't like payments and and find it amusing that most people take it as just a part of life.
I drive a 2006 Ford Escape that I bought used. It has 147,000 kms on it and other than brakes, tires, and regular fluid changes there has been no problems. I do my best to take care of the vehicles I own and tend to put close 300,000 kms on them.

I research every vehicle I buy to see how reliable the tranny and engine for any particular model i'm interested in. It's a depreciating asset and if i'm going to drive it at least 10 years i want to minimise any major repair costs.

My Escape

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