[News] Flames Management Want to Create a "Black & Blue" Team

[Erick Estrada]

Meh. The hardest teams to play against are the ones that win the game on the score sheet. I personally believe skill will always trump physicality and the most skilled teams that play a 200 foot game are the teams built to win long term. The 2014/15 Flanes team was far more fun to watch than any of the Darryl Sutter built Flames teams.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Size doesn't necessarily mean a bruiser. Being tough to play against doesn't necessarily mean you're a bruiser either. Joe Thornton and Jaromir Jagr are tough to play against because of theirsize. They protect the puck well and have the advantage of using that wing span to make plays. They are both hard to move when they get planted. Say all the crap you want about Colborne, but the guy can be a force in front of the net and is probably one of our best possession forwards when we try to cycle. His size is important to this club and we could use a few more bodies his size with similar or better skill.

I think there are a few guys that are available this draft that meet the Flames needs for size and skill. Logan Brown, Julien Gauthier, Riley Tufte, Mitch Mattson and Nathan Bastien are all big guys with skill. If we could score 6'5 215 pound Brown and 6'4 220 pound Gauthier, that would be some nice beef with skill to add to a growing lineup. Adding these guys to the stable of 6'4 200 pound Mark Jankowski, 6'3 200 pound Brett Pollack, 6'4 215 pound Auston Carroll, 6'2 210 pound Garnet Hathaway and 6'7 225 Hunter Smith provides some good beef to our lineup.

If the Flames are looking to add guys that are just tough to play against there are a couple available in this draft as well. 6'1 185 pound Michael McLeod and 6'2 185 pound Max Jones are both decent sized players but come with great motors and that black and blue mentality. Frankly, these guys just scream black and blue hockey, so it would make sense to target them as possible Flames.

This is going to be an interesting draft. I think it definitely will signal how serious about this whole black and blue thing the team is and whether the likes of Shinkaruk, Klimchuk, Mangiapane, etc. should be concerned about the hopes they have for playing in the NHL.

[BurningSteel]

Welcome back Bert.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

No, the thing you hate about Burke is that you hate Burke, so you cherry pick what he's saying and say "well duh!"

Burke also went into detail about the problem with the systems Hartley put in place, how he preferred possession over dump and chase, how you didn't have to be great on both the PP/PK that they had to average out. Do you hate that too?

And you don't know what an epiphany is.

Where did Burke mention hitting? Playing physical and aggressive is significantly different than just racking up hits. I think it's pretty obvious Burke would rather have a 5'9 guy who plays like he's 6'6 than the opposite. If you read the quotes and thought "Burke only likes BIG!" then you should have read all the words around the word "big."

I don't hate Burke. So not sure how you could insinuate that I'm biased. I hate his obsession and ranting about getting bigger and black and blue hockey being the be all and end all of styles. I question his constant harping on needing a big, aggressive team to make the playoffs in the west.

If you don't think Burke is obsessed with size then you haven't been paying attention.

[PeteMoss]

As long as their moves don't dictate a size above all else, they can say whatever they want.

The end of the roster guys like Bollig/Engelland don't really bother me. The Hunter Smith pick hurts a bit given the success the guy picked right after him is having in the AHL - http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=170326 (and also Christian Dvorak was picked a few slots later), but its a draft and those things happen.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Draft Tkachuck or Dubois
Sign UFA's like Lucic, Perron, Brower, McGuin, Weise or guys like that.
Make trades for guys that fit the mould of the team more if possible. Identify what players can be moved out that have value and go after players like Hayes if possible.

You forgot the most important part. Pressing "x" to confirm those transactions.

There seems to be an assumption that up until Burke's statement, we have not been targeting player like that. In fact, wasn't it widely speculated that we tried to get Hayes? I am sure that every GM and coach in the league would love to have skilled players with physical attributes. The things is, those players have to be available and willing to come. In the meantime, do you shun the BPAs while you wait for something that may never materialize? Of course not... you still try to ice the best team you can and implement a style of play that minimizes team weakness and promotes the strengths. But the downside is that there might be an opportunity cost given that most quality free agents tend to demand NMCs and long term deals.

I honestly don't think there is a template for building a championship team. The best teams are creative and flexible with the assets they have.

[Johnny Rotten]

How truculent are the Blackhawks?

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

How truculent are the Blackhawks?

They are a physical team, Andrew Shaw is a perfect example of skill and the ability to play a black and blue game.

They obviously have a core who are extremely talented as well.

[_Q_]

Teams can win championships without this black and blue nonsense. Acquiring players that are big for the sake of being big is going right back to the Sutter days.

[Royle9]

Do not want Dale Weise.
He's this seasons version of Matt Belesky.. random blip on the "goals" radar for 1 seasons and now he's apparently what every team could want.

[Johnny Rotten]

Originally Posted by flambers

They are a physical team, Andrew Shaw is a perfect example of skill and the ability to play a black and blue game.

They obviously have a core who are extremely talented as well.

Sure, but they aren't physical as in the way the Kings are.

The Flames need to get bigger, and they need to play tougher, but I'm not sure how truculent they need to be.

I don't think the Sharks are that truculent, but they handled the Kings easily.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

Sure, but they aren't physical as in the way the Kings are.

The Flames need to get bigger, and they need to play tougher, but I'm not sure how truculent they need to be.

I don't think the Sharks are that truculent, but they handled the Kings easily.

For sure, Kings, Ducks and Blues play a more physical style than the Hawks.

However Brian Burke never mention how 'physical" of a style they are looking to implement.

[saillias]

Every year this regime has wasted a draft pick on a player who can't skate/play because he's 6'6" or above.

Just cut the nonsense already and go for BPA at all times. This includes free agency. If narrow-minded goals of "truculence" lead this management group to go out and sign Dale Weise ignoring other more skilled players that's a problem.

[Johnny Rotten]

Originally Posted by saillias

Every year this regime has wasted a draft pick on a player who can't skate/play because he's 6'6" or above.

Just cut the nonsense already and go for BPA at all times. This includes free agency. If narrow-minded goals of "truculence" lead this management group to go out and sign Dale Weise ignoring other more skilled players that's a problem.

Not to say he overuses the word, but Brian Burke really likes trucuIence and, to be honest, I like truculence, and I would like the Flames be more truculent; furthermore, I like using the words truculence and truculent so much that I hope to use them (combined) at least five times in this post.

When is comes to being truculent, Dubois and maybe Tkachuk and Logan Brown (a 6'6" centre) may be guys that would be worthy picks at number 6.

Truculence!

[CaptainCrunch]

[Flash Walken]

That first Chicago team that won the cup was about as black and blue as you can get:

Brouwer, Seabrook, Byfuglien, Bolland, Keith, Ben Eager, Andrew Ladd, Bryan Bickell, Sopel, Colin Fraser, Adam Burish

[united]

Breaking: Sports team wants to get bigger and more skilled.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I think the black and blue quip is really just shorthand for more aggression, to be hard to play against, and dare I say it, truculence. It doesn't mean they need to swap the skill guys for the Charlestown Chiefs.

For me, that means a more effective forecheck when they dump it in. You need speed and size, in my opinion. Once a turnover is created, the Flames need to be much better on the cycle. Bigger, aggressive players will help.

More importantly, on the backend, the team needs to be much more aggressive. They can't play a passive game relying on blocked shots. They get hemmed in for too long, get tired chasing and give up too many quality scoring chances (or any scoring chances given how the goalies played). The D need to engage more. The forwards can't be sent loose on stretch passes. They need to play a more coherent game in their zone.

I used to think the low penalty totals were a good thing, as it showed strong discipline. Now I am not so sure. I think it just means we were way too passive. I used to tell my kid, "action penalties are fine, reaction penalties are no good". I think the same could be said to the Flames.

All of which is to say, the direction from management is important. The message from the coach is important. Even with the exact same team, they can be harder to play against. They can change their style of play.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think that people here are really exaggerating the point to make their point.

Burke and Brad aren't talking about rebuilding the 70's era Flyers here, or even some of the big slow possession teams of the 90's.

But we have to look at perspective here

1) This team was incredibly one dimensional this year, they were soft on the board, and if they didn't score off of the rush, they weren't going to score. When it came to playing the power teams in the West, we looked like the 98 pound weakling getting sand kicked in our faces

2) This team couldn't win battles along the boards to save their lives, part of that was the drop in work ethic this year, part of that was the lack of battlers in the top 6. It was the same in our own zone. In battles for position this team lost. Sure once our defense got the puck they were fairly deadly, but its getting the puck that matters.

3) How many liberties did we see teams taking on Johnny especially towards the end of the year. And the main reaction was the other players looking at their skate laces and mumbling about their bus passes being expired. A guy like Johnny isn't going to last long, sure he's tough to hit with the big hit, but the amounts of slashes across the knees and hands and other cheap shots were getting right out of control.

I'm not talking about a nuclear option either, I'm talking hard fast winning board battles and being able to stand up for your team mates when the officials won't .

two years ago, this team outworked and outbattled a lot of teams, especially in the third, when the coach wanted the hitting picked up by gum the hitting picked up. This year the team felt like a bit of the country club was creeping back in and there wasn't a like of battle with this team.

It got way too soft too fast.

[TheAlpineOracle]

I really don't know how anyone who watched this team this year can argue that the Flames don't need to get bigger, stronger, and meaner (Black and Blue). The games the Flames won were against teams willing to run and gun with them and allow the Flames D to dictate the play. As soon as they played a bigger and stronger team that clogged up the middle, they were a terrible hockey team with next to no chance of winning. The Blues, the Coyotes, the Ducks, The Kings, The Red Wings, The Wild, The Sharks, etc. just completely walked all over this team. Most of the Flames wins came against Eastern conference teams and other floundering Western Conference teams not known for their physicality or defence (Oilers, Jets, Canucks, etc.).