I don't think there's much more he could have done, I will be honest and say that I'm not really thrilled about Smith but I'm willing to wait and see. I don't know if Bishop would have had any interest in coming to the Flames and I don't know if any teams were really shopping their young goalies like Grubeaur. Treliving has done a great job with everything he's done and with goaltending he's pretty made the best out of a bad situation, I just think that he should be creative and find a way to fix it next year
__________________
Fan of the Flames, where being OK has become OK.
While Treliving has generally done great work, I'm going to be a bit of a wet blanket here.
Fixing goaltending was the biggest question before the season, and Smith and Lack both come with pretty big question marks.
I'm not saying it can't work out, but if our season goes down the toilet because of goaltending, it won't be a surprise either. On paper that doesn't look that great to me.
Yeah goaltending is going to remain a question mark until it plays out and while I'm optimistic things may be better I also wouldn't be surprised if these guys aren't an upgrade on Elliott/Johnson. I don't think we ever have to worry about goaltending being as bad as the 2015/16 season as that was a historically bad year for any organization in the NHL. The defense definitely looks better regardless of what the bottom pairing looks like as Hamonic is a massive upgrade on Wideman who started last season at the 4th defenseman. The forward group is largely unchanged but the hope is that Monahan and Gaudreau have adjusted to the new coach/system and won't take 40 games to get going like last season.
I will give Treliving an A+ for effort here as he has worked harder than any GM over the past few weeks and has addressed the goaltending situation and 4th defender holes with what were the best opportunities presented to him in his eyes. If I was to grade the actual moves maybe a B because of Hamonic as I view the goaltenders as kind of lateral moves at present time. Getting Foo, Murray without giving up assets is a nice bonus as well.
Last edited by Erick Estrada; 06-30-2017 at 07:20 AM.
So what could tre have done differently with the goaltending - mason? Offer sheet price?
Work a side deal in expansion? Make a deal prior to the expansion draft? Target someone with some actual upside?
Quote:
What other options are out there?
Philipp Grubauer, Joonas Korpisalo, Antii Raanta, Jimmy Howard, Peter Mrazek, Michal Neuvirth and Calvin Pickard just off the top of my head. I would have been happy as a clam in high water if Treliving had come away with Pickard or Grubauer and then supported him with a vet like Johnson or Elliott. But Smith and Lack? I still think our goaltending problem is that 1,000 pound gorilla on the back of this team, and it has just been compounded with the disruptive qualities of Smith's personality. Just my opinion, as someone who had to watch way too much of Mike Smith the last few years.
One thing I like is that Treliving has his team largely set fairly early. There's no big clouds like Johnny not being signed (or Monahan for a while as well). Also last year he was filling holes at the last minute, with Grossmann and Versteeg.
Aside from setting up some training camp battles, and maybe a RW signing, the coaches know what they have well in advance.
I'm not as concerned as some about goaltending. IMO Smith is better than Elliott, especially on a consistency basis. Lack is as good or better than Johnson, in whom I lost a lot of confidence after his hot streak.
The D has been upgraded a lot. Between that and the forwards generally having an off year last year, next year looks to be an improvement, which is what you want from a GM - constant improvement of the team.
Work a side deal in expansion? Make a deal prior to the expansion draft? Target someone with some actual upside?
Philipp Grubauer, Joonas Korpisalo, Antii Raanta, Jimmy Howard, Peter Mrazek, Michal Neuvirth and Calvin Pickard just off the top of my head. I would have been happy as a clam in high water if Treliving had come away with Pickard or Grubauer and then supported him with a vet like Johnson or Elliott. But Smith and Lack? I still think our goaltending problem is that 1,000 pound gorilla on the back of this team, and it has just been compounded with the disruptive qualities of Smith's personality. Just my opinion, as someone who had to watch way too much of Mike Smith the last few years.
How do you know that he didn't take a run at those guys and found the price to be prohibitive? Moreover a guy like Mrazek was God awful last year. What makes him a viable option?
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jiri Hrdina For This Useful Post:
Work a side deal in expansion? Make a deal prior to the expansion draft? Target someone with some actual upside?
Philipp Grubauer, Joonas Korpisalo, Antii Raanta, Jimmy Howard, Peter Mrazek, Michal Neuvirth and Calvin Pickard just off the top of my head. I would have been happy as a clam in high water if Treliving had come away with Pickard or Grubauer and then supported him with a vet like Johnson or Elliott. But Smith and Lack? I still think our goaltending problem is that 1,000 pound gorilla on the back of this team, and it has just been compounded with the disruptive qualities of Smith's personality. Just my opinion, as someone who had to watch way too much of Mike Smith the last few years.
Howard is just a big of question mark as Smith, likely riskier.
Mrazek was absolutely terrible last year.
Going with Grubauer/Pickard along with Johnson would have been exceptionally risky, much riskier than last year. Guys like Grubauer would have to have been the back up option, not the starter.
The Following User Says Thank You to The Cobra For This Useful Post:
I disagree that someone like Grubauer would be the backup, IMO it would have been the same situation as Raanta starting in Phoenix or Talbot with the coil.
__________________
Fan of the Flames, where being OK has become OK.
While I hate "burning" critical years with questionable goaltending, I really think he's got a long term solution that isn't ready, so I like the current solutions from a cost and term stand point. Is there risk that we have another situation like last year; sure.
Imagine for a second what B.T. would be doing with the tire fire up north, if he was at the reins
Yeah goaltending is going to remain a question mark until it plays out and while I'm optimistic things may be better I also wouldn't be surprised if these guys aren't an upgrade on Elliott/Johnson. I don't think we ever have to worry about goaltending being as bad as the 2015/16 season as that was a historically bad year for any organization in the NHL. The defense definitely looks better regardless of what the bottom pairing looks like as Hamonic is a massive upgrade on Wideman who started last season at the 4th defenseman. The forward group is largely unchanged but the hope is that Monahan and Gaudreau have adjusted to the new coach/system and won't take 40 games to get going like last season.
I will give Treliving an A+ for effort here as he has worked harder than any GM over the past few weeks and has addressed the goaltending situation and 4th defender holes with what were the best opportunities presented to him in his eyes. If I was to grade the actual moves maybe a B because of Hamonic as I view the goaltenders as kind of lateral moves at present time. Getting Foo, Murray without giving up assets is a nice bonus as well.
Agreed - I find it so hard to grade him this off-season as he killed it with Hamonic, Versteeg, and Foo. I'm very skeptical with the solution in net as if our season goes south, it's still the most likely and foreseeable reason why.
If Smith reverts back to his horrendous form from two years ago and Lack is what he is, we're in need of two new goalies next year...again! And just waiting out goaltending prospects to save the day in two years doesn't seem like an ideal situation. I'll sit back and see how the season goes but it's hard not to be a little worried. With the roster as it is now, we should be a strong contender regardless so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt once again.
that's probably the most ideal timeline and surely the scenario that the FO would prefer. If one of Gillies and Rittich are NHL quality and Parsons develops the way most people believe, then I don't think this is unrealistic.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to devo22 For This Useful Post:
How do you know that he didn't take a run at those guys and found the price to be prohibitive? Moreover a guy like Mrazek was God awful last year. What makes him a viable option?
I don't know. I was asked for other options, and I pointed them out. Can you provide any proof that Treliving did investigate them and that the cost was prohibitive? No you can't.
I appreciate that Mrazek had a bad year, but Lack is coming off of two bad years and Treliving still went after him. Mrazek may have had a bad year, with a .901 S% and 3.04 GAA, but that is after posting a .918 and .921 S% and 2.38 and 2.33 GAA in back to back years. Lack posted .902 and .901 s% in back to back seasons in Carolina. Maybe it was just Carolina, but the fans there certainly don't have anything good to say about Lack or his performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild GM
I'd also like some tangible proof of this alleged disruptive personality
Watch the games and listen to the #### he says to, and about, his team mates. Mike Smith has yet to let in a goal he was responsible for. Almost every goal that goes in he's having a "conversation" (nee ripping) with one of his defensemen and giving them #### after the play. He routinely has snarky comments about his team mates in interviews. Arizona fans were pissed with his play, pissed with his diving, pissed with his treatment of his team mates, and weren't disappointed to see him go. Just ask the fan base.
I don't know. I was asked for other options, and I pointed them out. Can you provide any proof that Treliving did investigate them and that the cost was prohibitive? No you can't.
I appreciate that Mrazek had a bad year, but Lack is coming off of two bad years and Treliving still went after him. Mrazek may have had a bad year, with a .901 S% and 3.04 GAA, but that is after posting a .918 and .921 S% and 2.38 and 2.33 GAA in back to back years. Lack posted .902 and .901 s% in back to back seasons in Carolina. Maybe it was just Carolina, but the fans there certainly don't have anything good to say about Lack or his performance.
Watch the games and listen to the #### he says to, and about, his team mates. Mike Smith has yet to let in a goal he was responsible for. Almost every goal that goes in he's having a "conversation" (nee ripping) with one of his defensemen and giving them #### after the play. He routinely has snarky comments about his team mates in interviews. Arizona fans were pissed with his play, pissed with his diving, pissed with his treatment of his team mates, and weren't disappointed to see him go. Just ask the fan base.
Honestly asking the fan base is one of the worst ways to try and assess a player
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Jiri Hrdina For This Useful Post:
Work a side deal in expansion? Make a deal prior to the expansion draft? Target someone with some actual upside?
Philipp Grubauer, Joonas Korpisalo, Antii Raanta, Jimmy Howard, Peter Mrazek, Michal Neuvirth and Calvin Pickard just off the top of my head. I would have been happy as a clam in high water if Treliving had come away with Pickard or Grubauer and then supported him with a vet like Johnson or Elliott. But Smith and Lack? I still think our goaltending problem is that 1,000 pound gorilla on the back of this team, and it has just been compounded with the disruptive qualities of Smith's personality. Just my opinion, as someone who had to watch way too much of Mike Smith the last few years.
Howard and Mrazek aren't any better than Smith.
Others on this list would have cost an arm and a leg to acquire while others have serious question marks.
The Following User Says Thank You to nemanja2306 For This Useful Post:
I don't know. I was asked for other options, and I pointed them out. Can you provide any proof that Treliving did investigate them and that the cost was prohibitive? No you can't.
I appreciate that Mrazek had a bad year, but Lack is coming off of two bad years and Treliving still went after him. Mrazek may have had a bad year, with a .901 S% and 3.04 GAA, but that is after posting a .918 and .921 S% and 2.38 and 2.33 GAA in back to back years. Lack posted .902 and .901 s% in back to back seasons in Carolina. Maybe it was just Carolina, but the fans there certainly don't have anything good to say about Lack or his performance.
.
Burden of proof rests with you as the guy suggesting BT didnt fully explore options. What we do know about him is that he is on every player and very thorougb
The Following User Says Thank You to Jiri Hrdina For This Useful Post:
I'm cautiously optimistic about Smith, he got shelled on a regular basis in Arizona and with the team spinning it's wheels and going nowhere I think that started to get to him. He seemed really pumped to be getting out of there and moving to a team that can compete, so hopefully that translates to better pre-season training and a higher focus in net. At any rate I'll take a goaltender who looked good in net on one of the worst defensive teams in the league vs. one who hid his flaws behind one of the best defensive groups in the league
Burden of proof rests with you as the guy suggesting BT didnt fully explore options. What we do know about him is that he is on every player and very thorougb
I never claimed he didn't explore other options. You did. I was asked what options were out there and what options I would have preferred, and I stated those.
Mrazek has had a 0.897 sv% for almost half of his NHL career now. NHL shooters have figured him out.
Then to top it off he comes with a $4 million cap hit, so even if Detroit would retain half his salary (which is highly doubtful) he still comes with a $2 million cap hit to be the back up, and this is a guy who has been a malcontent in Detroit because he feels he should be the top guy. I doubt he'd come to Calgary and happily accept a role as the back up.
