Black teen shot and killed by neighborhood watch in Orlando gated community

[moon]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Ok, so pretend you are 1 out of 10 MMA skilled instead of 3rd degree brown belt, now how easy?

Very

[puckluck2]

Damn if I was allowed to shoot someone for everytime I was at the bottom in a fight I just might be the biggest serial killer in Canada.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

It's quite easy, actually. Since the gun would be around my belt range, it's a very small number of moves to grab my gun, point it "upwards" and squeeze the trigger. No aim required, even. Just get it clear of the holster and point it up. I doubt that Zimmerman was aiming for anything. I think he just managed to hit the heart.

Of course, being a 3rd degree brown belt in Kempo, my opinion might be a bit biased.

I always wanted to take Kempo...I took Kung Fu instead. Much better wrestler than striker.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Ok, so pretend you are 1 out of 10 MMA skilled instead of 3rd degree brown belt, now how easy?

Still very easy. With someone sitting on your hips (which is where you should be sitting, if you are doing a GnP) the person being sat on would have full access to anything holstered at the waist.

However he got there, I can quite easily picture a very scared and thus adrenalized Zimmerman getting his hands on his gun. GnP doesn't do much to an opponents arms. He gets his hand on the grip, the gun only has to clear 8-9 inches of holster, and then it's pointed up and fired without aiming. This is something that I feel that ANYONE could do if their arms were not immobilized and without much presence of mind. I don't see it being that hard to get at something strapped to one's waist while they are being sat on in that style.

Once Zimmerman had the gun in hand, it would only take a second or two to point (not aim, just point) the gun upward and squeeze the trigger.

I do not think that Zimmerman maliciously killed Martin. I think it was a tragic set of circumstances that could have been avoided at several stages at several points in all of the encounters, and wasn't.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I doubt Martin was on his chest, more likely his lower abdomen, like what you would typically see in the UFC. You don't want to sit on someone's chest, that is too high up and somewhat harder land punches while easier for the guy at bottom to reach around your body and hold you closer.

And since he was most likely on the abdomen, a gun in the hand of the person being mounted would easily point up and through the chest area.

For someone who's calling out anyone who makes assumptions in this case, you sure aren't afraid to make them yourself.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Still very easy. With someone sitting on your hips (which is where you should be sitting, if you are doing a GnP) the person being sat on would have full access to anything holstered at the waist.

However he got there, I can quite easily picture a very scared and thus adrenalized Zimmerman getting his hands on his gun. GnP doesn't do much to an opponents arms. He gets his hand on the grip, the gun only has to clear 8-9 inches of holster, and then it's pointed up and fired without aiming. This is something that I feel that ANYONE could do if their arms were not immobilized and without much presence of mind. I don't see it being that hard to get at something strapped to one's waist while they are being sat on in that style.

Once Zimmerman had the gun in hand, it would only take a second or two to point (not aim, just point) the gun upward and squeeze the trigger.

I do not think that Zimmerman maliciously killed Martin. I think it was a tragic set of circumstances that could have been avoided at several stages at several points in all of the encounters, and wasn't.

Again, you just went through like eight perfectly set out motions and then based your conclusion on it.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Sounds easy, now have a thug kid sit on your chest and ground and pound you, and then see how easy it is.

You have absolutely no clue what your talking about. Go back and look at the trial where the prosecution and then defense did the recreation in the court room using a dummy as Martin when the police investigator was on the stand.

Martin was not on Zimmerman's chest as was testified by the cop Martin's thigh was over Zimmerman's waist the gun was under Martin's left thigh. Zimmerman was in a leg pinning position and leaning over Martin throwing punches.

BTW if you've ever been in a fight, its incredibly hard to sit on someones chest and throw a face punch straight down with any power. You pin on the abs, or waist or even the upper thighs and use your leverage to provide punching power.




Quit making stuff up to prove your theories you're starting to look incredibly foolish.

Martin's thigh was over the gun. Zimmerman reached under the thigh during the struggle pulled out the gun and levered it upwards for a natural chest shot. Its on the record in the testimony if you actually want to do some of your own research.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Again, you just went through like eight perfectly set out motions and then based your conclusion on it.

Would you prefer I come over and demonstrate it? It is always harder to explain something with words than show with actions.

I do not believe that it is difficult to grab something at your waist with someone sitting on you, point that something up and pull a trigger. It's not a complex set of actions or sequence at all.

And what 'conclusion' was reached? That it's a viable thing that can happen? I am not saying that it IS what happened. I'm saying that I can very easily see it happening.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by flameswin

For someone who's calling out anyone who makes assumptions in this case, you sure aren't afraid to make them yourself.

Its not an assumption it was recreated during the trial by both the prosecution and defense using a dummy when the police investigator on the stand.

The Prosecution even asked where the gun was, the reply was under Martin's left thigh. He was not sitting on his chest. His butt was south of the waist.The defense even illustrated that Martin would have had a lean over position to throw natural head shots and to be able to easily grab Martin by the head and smack him into the ground.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by flameswin

For someone who's calling out anyone who makes assumptions in this case, you sure aren't afraid to make them yourself.

I call people out when they say Zimmerman was a racist despite there being no evidence. I also call people out when suggesting something that is simply not true (for example, Zimmerman did not call police, police did not perform an investigation).

There is lots of reasonable speculation in this thread on both sides, nothing wrong with that.

Outright lies and fabrications are completely different.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Its not an assumption it was recreated during the trial by both the prosecution and defense using a dummy when the police investigator on the stand.

The Prosecution even asked where the gun was, the reply was under Martin's left thigh. He was not sitting on his chest. His butt was south of the waist.

Recreated based on Zimmerman's account?

Honest question, I didn't follow the trial.

[DuffMan]

Well hello how easy would it be...

http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/19654

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

. I also call people out when suggesting something that is simply not true (for example, Zimmerman did not call police, police did not perform an investigation).

Wait, Zimmerman did not call police? Again, honest question, as I thought he had called police and they told him to stop following or something?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Honest question, I didn't follow the trial.

That's okay, seems to be a pattern with those who call him a murderer.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You have absolutely no clue what your talking about. Go back and look at the trial where the prosecution and then defense did the recreation in the court room using a dummy as Martin when the police investigator was on the stand.

Go back and look at the trial? Duffman doesn't do that. Judging by his posts, I don't think he has looked at one piece of evidence presented in this case. I'm pretty sure he has just pieced this whole thing together by reading NBC headlines.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I call people out when they say Zimmerman was a racist despite there being no evidence. I also call people out when suggesting something that is simply not true (for example, Zimmerman did not call police, police did not perform an investigation).

There is lots of reasonable speculation in this thread on both sides, nothing wrong with that.

Outright lies and fabrications are completely different.

Or when people say TM attacked Z?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Recreated based on Zimmerman's account?

Honest question, I didn't follow the trial.

Recreation based on forensics and recreation, Zimmerman's testimony. It explained the angle of the shot as well.

It makes sense, if you ever pinned your opponent during a scrap the only thing you can do to an opponent if your sitting on his chest is pretty much spit a loogy in their face. You have 0 punching power.

If you sit back over the thighs, you can lean over your opponent and throw really stiff punches.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Wait, Zimmerman did not call police? Again, honest question, as I thought he had called police and they told him to stop following or something?

Sorry, I meant to say I jump in when people repeat the lies, lies like saying Zimmerman did not call police. I probably wasn't clear. I do lots of typing with a dog, kid or wife on me.

Zimmerman did call the police.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Well hello how easy would it be...

http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/19654

An article with statements like estimated, and things like well he assumed the trajectory of the bullet by reading the autopsy report.

You really are the Mikey the Redneck of the thread.

Its pretty much no better then what your doing in this thread.

[Shawnski]

For those wondering how this would play out if the roles (races) were reversed, well, this is damn close:

Roderick Scott, an African American man, shot and killed Christopher Cervini, a 17-year-old white youth, in 2009.

Scott faced a charge of first-degree manslaughter, and claimed he shot the teen in self defense.

Scott was subsequently acquitted.

All this happened in New York State, which, even back then, had much tougher gun and self defense laws than the state of Florida has.

Roderick Scott case

No national media attention to that one. Obama didn't say anything. Nada, nyet, nothin'.