CalgaryNEXT project on pause, says Ken King

[calgarygeologist]

It is the holiday season and lots of things get put on pause during this time of year.

[Strange Brew]

A strange thing to announce publicly, given the lack of activity around it.

[The Familia]

CalgaryNext = NG.....

[activeStick]

The failures to me, as I mentioned are the failure to successfully manage the optics around a project of this size. For any project in any other organization, the "face" of the project (in this case, Ken King) need to do a good job keeping the stakeholders abreast on changes to schedule and financials in a clear manner and as far as I've seen, that hasn't happened for the project.

A lot of the "updates" have been meaningless with little content of value specifically around project status, reasons for the delays and mitigation strategies.

If this was a project in any other industry, the PM would have been replaced.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He should be fired for not having a crystal ball? I don't think in 2007 he could have predicted the recessions and flood that clearly are the main reasons for the delay as well as the acquisition of the Stampeders which added the McMahon situation to his plate.

As GGG said, stop and think about the timeline for a minute. To have the arena open by 2015, they would have needed to get city approval by around 2011 and had shovels hitting the ground in 2012. The flood has nothing to do with the fact the Flames have gotten nowhere on an arena for going on 10 years now. The recession has nothing to do with it. Buying the Stamps might have something to do with it. If so, then I have to say it was a bad decision.

The most likely reason almost 10 years have gone by with no arena in sight is the ownership wanted to extract the maximum possible amount of funding out of the city and province, and they've waited years and years for the right environment. Turns out that was a bad gamble on their part, because government is even less inclined to give them funding now than they were 8 or 9 years ago.

So now they're going to end up getting construction on an arena underway in 2021 and finished in 2023 when they could have had an arena ready to open this year. And it's going to cost them what they would have had to pony up in in the first place. Maybe more. Good job.

[topfiverecords]

so what'sNext?

[Jason14h]

Ken King dropping the ball ??? Color me surprised !

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

The one thing I will say, with no idea what's going on with these proceedings, is our city, especially under this mayor is netoriously difficult to deal with. Probably going to be a lot of starting and stopping on this project, and given the Flames are the only ones with any motivation to communicate on this project (and rightfully so, they want the rink the most) it will be them delivering the messages.

I guess you could say it's their own fault for how early they communicated, but I'm not going to critique them looping in their fans on their high level plans. I also don't envy them having to work past this cities very archauque way of doing business on a project this large.

But apparently the first the city heard from the Flames about an arena project was only a couple years ago. And when their proposal called for 1.1 to 1.5 billion from the city, city council said uh, no. Not a chance.

People are making this out to be more complicated than it is. The Flames have submitted one proposal to the city, and it calls for far more money than the city is willing to provide. That's it.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Why were they not submitting the same basic proposal as Edmonton with minor tweaks and improvements six months after the Oilers got theirs approved? How is it so much more difficult to get a $450 million arena deal done in Calgary as opposed to Edmonton?

Seems like the city would have gone along with that pretty willingly. But no, they had to reinvent the goddamn wheel with a $2 billion farce that won't be completed until 2025 if they started yesterday.

Sure undermines the urgency of the situation when you're willing to wait a decade to build something that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world for a reason.

The Flames would take the deal the Oilers got in an absolute heartbeat.

[flamesfan6]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

The one thing I will say, with no idea what's going on with these proceedings, is our city, especially under this mayor is netoriously difficult to deal with.

this is why some people shouldn't vote, because when a sports team submitting a proposal asking for $1b+, voters blame the mayor for being 'difficult'

also you say "with no idea what's going on" and then subsequently imply it's the mayors fault in the same sentence

just saying...

[btimbit]

I definitely have no love for Calgary's city council, specifically the mayor, but theyre not in the wrong here. It's like King and co wanted to just make a bogus proposal and then sit back and have the city handle everything else. Turning that crap down in itself doesn't make them hard to deal with.

[flamesfan6]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I guess you could say it's their own fault for how early they communicated, but I'm not going to critique them looping in their fans on their high level plans. I also don't envy them having to work past this cities very archauque way of doing business on a project this large.

sorry, missed this part.

You don't envy the flames having to ask the city for a crap load of money? I'm sorry but the owners of the flames can pay for this arena themselves, they are just trying to get the taxpayers to pay for it instead.

You do realize if any money comes from the city, that money has to come from somewhere right? Like the taxpayers? noo that can't be accurate...

I'm sorry but if you are blaming the city for this project not going ahead, you obviously don't pay taxes and just want a shiny new arena to go to with those tickets your parents pay for.

I find it hilarious the city is taking flak for this arena proposal not working still, it was a presentation asking for $$$ for a sports complex that probably wasn't fully thought out.

Also what projects, and ones of this scale are ever completed on the expected budget?

Ken King has done nothing good for this project, and NONE of this rests on the city. The council and mayor are just doing their jobs and not spending taxpayers money on a project that doesn't benefit the city

[flamesfan6]

i wish i was a millionaire/billionaire owner of a sports team where asking the city for millions/billion of dollars to build my arena would make me look like the victim when the mayor doesn't say yes

[SeeGeeWhy]

Sorry folls but didn't Katz and a few other developers buy up the land that the new toilet bowl up north was built on? With plans to not just build the arena but to also put major investments into the entire district? Katz is also in the process of liquidating his holdings in rexall and related businesses so it looks like he's good for the money long term if crap ever hits the fan.

The flames have made no such investments or committments... they picked a contaminated site and proposed a 99 year lease after the city cleaned it up, and left provisions for other builders to develop the district. I always thought it was a bit of a calculated risk on the part of the flames entertainment group to get the land in a downtown location for basically nothing. Not surprised it was met with skepticism.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Why were they not submitting the same basic proposal as Edmonton with minor tweaks and improvements six months after the Oilers got theirs approved? How is it so much more difficult to get a $450 million arena deal done in Calgary as opposed to Edmonton?

Seems like the city would have gone along with that pretty willingly. But no, they had to reinvent the goddamn wheel with a $2 billion farce that won't be completed until 2025 if they started yesterday.

Sure undermines the urgency of the situation when you're willing to wait a decade to build something that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world for a reason.

The Flames want to build a stadium and an arena. The scope of the project is much bigger than theirs.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I didn't realize this was going to be the lede on A1 above the fold of the Herald. I'm guessing Ken was hoping it'd get buried in the middle of the sports section.

[Bane]

I can see it now...

From CalgaryNEXT to NothingNEXT: The Ken King Story (by Eric Francis)

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He should be fired for not having a crystal ball? I don't think in 2007 he could have predicted the recessions and flood that clearly are the main reasons for the delay as well as the acquisition of the Stampeders which added the McMahon situation to his plate. The man may be the reason the team is still in Calgary so it's a mystery to me why there's such contempt for him amongst some fans.

Lol, has Ken King been talking to Theo Fleury? What is this nonsense?

[calgarygeologist]

I've been critical of King regarding a new building and how things have been progressing but in reality I think this is really an ownership failure. If ownership wanted a new building to happen it would have happened by now. They are obviously satisfied with the situation though and are satisfied with King.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Flacker

Lol, has Ken King been talking to Theo Fleury? What is this nonsense?

I would advise to ignore what Estrada has to say on this one. He doesn't care if the city paid for all of CalgaryNEXT, plus waived collecting all taxes related, plus offered to cover all admin and op costs of running CalgaryNEXT. He doesn't care. He just wants this thing built no matter what. It's a purely emotional issue for him, logic and facts are meaningless.